Dumb Way To Write A Screenplay - Mark Sanderson

[@cjeff3549]

I learned this the hard way. It was demoralising to realise on page 75 that I had buried my story inside an inescapable tomb of confusion. It was even more demoralising to acknowledge I needed to trash around 50 pages to try and shine some light into the tomb. I spent weeks ‘flaw hunting, resolving and outlining’. I didn’t like it too much. But when I restarted the script, something was different. The characters had an energy. Their motivations clearer. Their dialogue more authentic. The most enjoyable writing experience I’ve ever had. Thank you for these incredibly insightful interviews.

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

Thanks, CJ for watching and commenting.

[@BigDaddyJinx]

We are all our own worst critics and biggest boosters in equal measure. The trick is knowing which needs to make an appearance at what time.

[@jag5798]

I create the beginning and the end first. The middle part is the hardest. I can tell in movies/tv when a writer becomes fatigued w/the story.

[@thedogs3467]

Dan Harmon story circle really helps with that

[@ajtaylor8750]

The absolute worst way to write a screenplay is to think that you don't need to have any clue of what you want to write. Have some idea of what you want to write before you sit down to write the script because it'll be a very big help in ths long run. *"I don't know what I want, but I know what I don't want."* -Stanley Kubrick

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

Great plan and also helps in the assignment world. Thanks always, AJ for watching and contributing to the conversation.

[@danieljmunoz3211]

Yessir 👌😂

[@IggyTthunders]

It's important to have an idea, but it's also important to be flexible and not slavishly devoted to your outline. It's always great to have a battle plan, a method of attack, but a writer is kkkind of a DM: they should have a rough idea of where they want the story to go, while always adapting to what their characters want and need. The best revelations I've ever had, when I was flummoxed how to progress the plot, always came when I asked the characters 'Okay, how would you respond to this situation? How do you feel? What do you want here?'.

[@Cthulhu013]

I tend to have a clue about what I want to write. And then once I sit down to write it, it evolves into something different, which forces me to change the outline. I started postponing outlines until I have a handful of scenes down and understand the main characters first. Whether it's a series or film, I usually know where the story and characters will go by about page 30. That's when I do the outline for the rest of the story.

[@IggyTthunders]

I totally agree with this guy, 100%. One of the most eye-rolling norms in film school was seeing people go for broke with their projects and then openly condescend to the "safe" stories. Every time that happened I heaped praise on those "safe" scripts, with memorable characters and coherent if mundane plot lines, as my way of saying to those "auteurs", 'Hey, dude, do you know the difference between that cute little rom-com about a girl waiting tables at a restaurant and your broody, genre-hopping, navel-gazing opus? That rom com's pilot is A)finished; and B)fucking filmable!' And I say that as one of those "autuers" who made ambitious scripts with trippy or gritty ideas. My pilots were like that, because that's what I wanted to make, but what I could write, shoot, and edit for my reel were slice-of-life comedies, and they were all well reviewed. Why? Because they were funny with clean, easy-to-follow plots; they were made to entertain, not to befuddle the audience and mystify the art of story telling.

[@ctweddingfilms4479]

I write what I can film on zero budget. Doesn’t pay anything but at least what I write gets made. 😎

[@FUNNYMANERICWHITE]

Well said

[@DialloMoore503]

Smart.

[@evanantonola4935]

I wrote my first script without an outline. I used cards with big scenes on it and tried to connect them. It was hard but i think writing always need hardwork. I do outlines now but i tried to not stick to it. Study the story, script will follow.

[@gregharvey2006]

Such good advice. My first three screenplays were all $100M+, then wrote a small-budget contained horror. I guess the first three are all good practice, but starting small improves your chances.

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

And they were solid screenplays too! Love to hear about your low budget horror. Keep up the good work!

[@malinkor]

1:13 that’s amazing. That is a brilliant way of explaining how writing should feel like. Once again thanks for another great video! ❤️

[@artisanjames182]

I've had that happen many times when writing... he's spot on!

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

@@artisanjames182 LOVE when that happens!

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

Ah, thanks Mr. Patty for watching and commenting. Hope your writing is going well.

[@xingincool9672]

Yup happens all the time, I mainly create multiple scenes and then I get to those scene slowly, I almost always know my ending but never my start, but funny, the begining always comes randomly.

[@gxulien]

Xena warrior princess was a lot better written than a lot of stuff out today. How do I judge? I notice that with good writing I'm not shouting at the screen about how lame the dialogue, characters and plot are and the lady in the downstairs apt. isn't striking her ceiling with her broom to get me to shut up.

[@dukeofdenver]

You'll still be doing rewriting and revisions even if you're an outliner. The choice on whether or not to outline depends on how much back end work youre willing to do. But both outliners and people who don't all end up doing some revising and rewriting.

[@Ruylopez778]

But someone who relies on outlining to know where they're going will get stuck midway if they don't. It's more productive for them to have a clear structure, even though there is inevitably things to be fixed.

[@IggyTthunders]

the secret to writing is reading other writers and re-writing.

[@firstlast-oo1he]

THIS. I outline but I love doing big rewrites, because you really don't know what you have until you have it, and some things are only apparent after the first draft.

[@filmcourage]

How was this helpful for you?

[@AdamTensei]

All of your videos are helpful

[@filmcourage]

@@AdamTensei Thank you, Lou!

[@dallasdandigitalproduction393]

"Im gonna live the life! yeah, you're gonna be living the life at two in the morning writing the screenplay.Thats what it is, its work.Its not glamour". SO true. Gotta let go of any delusions. Get real. If you love writing, this is the profession for you. Do it bc you love it. Hone your craft.Keep practicing the art and craft of writing, one day the payday comes. Glamour at premieres is an ancillary benefit.

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

Tru dat Dallas! You know the drill! Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@GeoZero]

An idea alone is not enough for a film.

[@BigDaddyJinx]

An idea is flesh. It's superficial. A story is the heart beneath that flesh.

[@HamoonRandoms]

I gotta say, I've been an outliner for quite some time, and I sort of agree, but the last coupIe of years I've found that I'm more comfortable using my first draft as an outline. It's not really a "first draft" because most of it is getting fully tossed into the garbage and rewritten from scratch. Basically I just write my way through the story and it's just a detailed treatment so I can see what the hell my story's about anyway. Maybe others do better with note cards and white board, but I find it so difficult to really come up with an idea if I'm not writing it out in full scenes. So far I've done this with a novel and a screenplay I'm working on, and it's maaaaybe better than my previously outlined on Scrivener stuff. But again, it just depends on what you mean by "outline."

[@Sams.Videos]

Same here. When you design a recipe, you first need to mess around and experience the ingredients before you can write it down. Same with music, it first goes through the instrument, and then on the page.

[@purduevoices]

I have a screenplay idea that comes from vivid memories and is like a movie scene.

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

Work out the story and create a solid outline and get to writing pages! Best wishes and thanks for watching and commenting.

[@DavideBaresi]

I personally always enjoy Mark's videos. Thanks Film Courage.

[@zozoartstudio4727]

I know that feeling. When you’re on one, it’s like you’ve already watched the movie and you’re a transcribing it. Hard to get there without fleshing everything out first

[@TwistedFilm]

Not only was that a bad question to ask but it was definitely a bad answer, there is no stupid way of writing a script, there may be an unacceptable way by industry standards today but definitely no stupid way of writing the script! Remember that when Charlie Chaplin first started making films I’m sure there were no computers or software to format scripts the way we format them today, I’m sure they scribbled on paper just to get the scenes that they wanted to get

[@saynotoextremism7026]

During the stoneage they never sat on wooden chairs but mud dirt soil stone etc.. You wanna do that too.. Making things organized and formatted helps other people to have a clear cut idea.. Your idea.

[@bradebronson8835]

Always informative to hear Mark give advice. A true grinder in one of the toughest creative businesses in the industry... screenwriting. Film Courage droppin dope screenwriting content!

[@filmcourage]

Will you ever write a screenplay without an outline?

[@gregharvey2006]

Can't do it. For me, the outline is king.

[@errhka]

I started and spent so much time going back over and changing what I had written that I would have been better off outlining it from the start. If I already knew the beats for the whole thing I maybe could have done it, but I just knew the very beginning and part of the middle so it was really just me flying by the seat of my pants

[@filmcourage]

How long did it take you to finish the screenplay?

[@errhka]

@@filmcourage 2 months of doing it for about an hour after work and on weekends. In terms of pure write time though about half of what I spent writing it was spent rewriting earlier parts when I changed something along the way. Just felt like a waste of time tbh when I could have just outlined it with some ideas from other friends to help fill in the details. The benefit was that every detail was very intimately mine though because I had gone over them so often

[@poweraidelvis9031]

Yeah I've written two screenplays without an outline. Both 120 pages each. Worked out beautifully! I've also written 2 screenplays with an outline and those are preferably better, so yeah, outline is king

[@sunshineeveryday10]

I'm an actor, model and am writing a feature film script. This poat was really helpful👍

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

Happy to hear it helped. Thanks for watching and best wishes with your writing journey.

[@marcusmaher-triskellionfil5158]

I agree with Mark, sadly most of the dross that's produced by HW has been greenlit by people who don't understand the craft of proper screenwriting, this function has been relegated to almost the last thing nowadays when 40 years ago it was a vital as the director and cinematographer, hence why the standards have massively dropped and why films today are on life support, not enough time spent in honing a great script but cobbled together and thrown out there.

[@MariWakocha]

I think coming into cinema because of big movies like Star Wars is really common, and often that's what you'll be dreaming about making. I think the screenwriters I admire the most are the ones that have really big ideas, but can only write for a small budget, then somehow makes it feel like a really big story anyway. Sometimes you watch a small independent movie that just has the feel of a big classic and I'm amazed that they pulled it off.

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

I came into cinema around your same era with those movies that were magic to an 11 year old filmmaker.Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@chrisjfox8715]

I can see how someone would feel too boxed in if they set an outline first. If I was a writer, I'd likely make an outline then throw it away. In other words, take the time to thoroughly think through it..but then take the material wherever it takes me (in a way).

[@ColGAFilms]

Would you call mapping out what happens every 5 pages (5 minutes) a good outline for a feature?

[@ve4mm]

I am an Engineer and developer worth tens of millions and wrote a screenplay in 30 days for fun. I got feedback from Page Awards and I am re-writing it with the help of a local screenwriting editor. Their advice was bang on. I needed a kick in the ass. I did receive 7/10 for commercial success. Now this screenplay has a social conscience and if made will affect everyone. I can afford to make this myself. 100% pure fun! I have read scripts from great movies and I am learning structure, flow and dialog that works.I am already a published author - 2007. Gran Torino script ROCKS

[@MariWakocha]

This is interesting. I couldn't write without an outline, but I usually don't have a clear picture of all the scenes, and I have to write "the bad version" of some of them to get the first draft done. Usually I don't show the first version to so many people, because I'm too ashamed of the bad scenes, but I can see clearer what needs to be done with them to have a draft I can actually let people read. Typing stuff that I know sucks it agonizing, but I might have to do it to be able to write, or I'll just be stuck rewriting the beginning over and over. On a side not, I was actually also always the person who didn't have to study, but just showed up for the tests. I can't explain it, but I know it enough to pass the test and then most of the knowledge is gone. I also think that some of my better scenes are written by accident, while the ones I think too hard about becomes messy and I lose track of them. My tests in school used to range from very average, but passing (if I didn't study), and really good, but always behind someone (if I did study like crazy before the test, which I used to especially in junior high school). It's gonna be interesting if that's how my movies/screenplays will turn out in the future^^;

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

Terrific process! Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@kensuke0]

Yeah, the only time you can write that quickly is if it’s coming out of your mind’s eye. A screenplay I wrote was like that and now it received high marks from a reader in a contest.

[@Sims8705]

I totally agree. Most people that don't outline "gardeners" write mediocre scripts and spend years on rewriting road

[@firstlast-oo1he]

You should be doing page one rewrites even if you do outline. This has nothing to do with outlining or not outlining. Most people who say they don't, really just do a more loose form of an outline. Everyone's process is different, everybody needs to find their own way.

[@ianbauer4703]

There's no one right way to write anything.

[@michaelsix9684]

John Hughes wrote Pretty in Pink script in four days, he had a deadline to meet to get financed by studio, did he ever do outlines or does Tarantino do outlines

[@Martin-kc1xj]

You work on small/bad projects to develop your skills. That's what most projects are, the opportunity to learn. Do you really want to learn your craft by "winging it" on the project you see as your masterpiece? You need practice material, so you can learn to push through failure, widen your horizons by adapting to feedback, optimize your workflow so you don't burn yourself out spending weeks on details and then rush through the rest in misery. You need to learn to see what's fluff, to compromise and get things done instead of throwing temper tantrums when things don't go your way because you're afraid it will destroy your "perfect vision" (hint, it's not perfect, in fact, it's probably crap) Trust me, you don't want to work with (or be) someone who's in way over his head and relies on his ego to make decisions instead of having confidence in his ability to come up with compromises that are as good or better and that fit the reality of the situation.

[@Battleganz]

Well, I write my screenplays in about a week. Obviously, I've never won an Oscar, but it's sort of diminishing returns. It is true that if I write it fast, then it's not going to be the world's most perfect screenplay, but the diminishing returns question is that if I spent ten years writing a 16k word screenplay, would that screenplay somehow be GUARANTEED to win an Oscar? Or would I just be ten years older with nothing to show for it?

[@cy0618]

At the end of the day, confidence and resilience breeds success. Obv that’s a broad statement but look at it like this. You work years putting ur all into everything u work with. Everything u create. Eventually u learn what works and what doesn’t. U learn ur style. U learn what u need to do as a writer. And u learn who u are as a writer. And once u learn all of those things, they are just a couple less things to worry about when writing in the future. So in short, no there is no guarantee that spending ten years on a script would be successful. What is guaranteed, is that you will be successful if you know ur ready to start a ten year script. I am starting to write and this is the mentality I have. I’ve worked on music before and what I’ve learned is, if u just keep going u learn so much and keep getting better. Not giving up will win u that Oscar.

[@21stcenturyhiphop]

People spend YEARS crafting their masterpiece, only to have it be re-written if it gets produced. You're better off pushing them out quicker.

Love it! :)

[@AltairZielite]

My outline consists of 'scene titles' in a spreadsheet. I could not have 'written' a story without it. It was nice to write estimated minutes per scene, then later to put page numbers in there... get a real idea of flow, and other things. Even color coding plot lines, or character emphasis. I can't imagine writing a story without outlining in a spreadsheet. Just my way I guess.

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

Love your process. It sounds like a great safety net to have when writing. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@dexxfilm]

I use the beat board in Final Draft, I color code each aspect of the outline. Characters (with a brief description of their role in the story), Act Structure/synopsis of each act, Character Arc info, Each scene in its own box and a description of it (very important), and Set Ups/Pay Offs (A description of each moment where a set up is established, and how it comes into play later). I'm a firm believer in every aspect of the screenplay being connected in some way. So everything comes full circle.

[@jeremiahnoar7504]

for, I noticed that I read really fast if I subconsciously think my writings bad. As if I'm trying to get the scene I'm reading over and done with. Because who wants to read a scene that hey deep down feel is horrible.

[@theafq4030]

I wouldn’t agree that it’s a “stupid move” - why? Because I have experience with that, (I’m not defending myself, Haha). Let’s say I got the idea 3d ago. The same day I started writing certain scenes. I finished the Pilot Episode, in the next 4 days. But, of course. I'll have to rewrite the story a few times, I'm sure. So I don’t think it’s a stupid move. Sometimes it is unnecessary to outline the story for too long. Just write, write and write. Even if you don't even know what the f**k are you writing. Just write. You will use those scenes or ideas one day. Trust me. That is better than not writing anything.

[@Ruylopez778]

Well, it may work for your process, but the counter argument is that just starting, even if you can change it later, cements those scenes and structures in your mind. In that sense, it can be hard to make necessary changes based on what has already formed in your head/the screen. Some people will get stuck if they can't see an ending, and get frustrated. It can be draining trying to connect disparate threads. I agree that writing, even if it gets discarded from one project is better than just avoiding and procrastinating, but sometimes a little planning saves time overall. I think most people fall somewhere between the two extremes of outliner and discovery writer, and it's OK to be anywhere on that scale.

[@theafq4030]

@@Ruylopez778 Definitely. I agree that “a little planning saves time overall” - Of course. But in the end we'll both spend the same time on "REWRITE"... now, I usually don’t know the 100% exact end of a story when I'm writing. This leaves me more room to think as I'm writing other scenes. It may sound weird, but I’ve already done three projects that way. It is more natural for me to write that way. Another technique I use is: sometimes I like to write the script backwards. ("Some people will get stuck if they can't see an ending, and get frustrated." - I would recommend these people to write the first and last scene. The rest will be easier. Or to write all the scenes they want, and later to put them together.) Don't get me wrong, you're right. But of course, we all have different ways. Good luck, man!

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

That is an interesting process, but when you start working on assignments you cannot just write and write even if you don't know what you are writing about. I think specs are a good training ground to train yourself for the time when you do get hired to write an assignment. Why not?

[@theafq4030]

@@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat I agree, absolutely. But I've tried to say here if you're writing your own story - "then you don't need an outline" - I know, I know, I know - it may sound bizarre. While on the other hand as you say, if you get an assignment, based on someone else’s story/Idea, of course you need a plan. No offense. I personally don’t think you need to pay too much attention to the outline if you’re writing your own story. There is a huge difference. I hope you understand what I mean. Also, of course you need an outline if you are writing a project that has 120 pages. You can't put it all in your head and arrange it properly, while 45 minutes long-script - You could, I believe so. But yes, I agree with you. Mark, you have more experience. I'm only a 19-year-old. At the moment, this is an easier way for me. How good is that way? I don't know, that's what other people will say. Take care, man!

[@Ruylopez778]

@@theafq4030 "I would recommend these people to write the first and last scene. The rest will be easier. Or to write all the scenes they want, and later to put them together." That's still discovery writing. There's nothing wrong with discovery writing, but it doesn't work for everyone. For some people they can't write the scene until they know the motivations of the characters and where it fits in their development. I think it's easier to be productive when you have a clear idea what needs to happen and why. Of course, many writers are a hybrid of outliners and discovery, and switch back and forth between the two as necessary. Let's say that you write a great scene in the middle that you really like, but actually it's redundant in the story, because the elements it changed have now been edited into something else. It takes a lot of will power to remove that scene, and the temptation is perhaps to try and 'make' it work in order to keep it. So the rewrite could take longer having to work out all the kinks in the story that are there from discovering the story and characters. There will be less kinks (I think) to work out in an outlined draft, even if the themes, characters and ending changes, because the whole thing already made sense from start to finish. Just my personal experience.

[@minahm4069]

Question: I've seen actors leave their country and act in foreign films and TV shows, is the same possible for writers

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

Yes, indeed. One of my friends from Rome came here in LA and became a screenwriter.

[@rmpeete]

"That's not 48 hours." Made me laugh. Thanks.

[@johnalston290]

I like how this guy seems to soften Karen's concept a little bit. He isn't saying, don't persue the perfect idea, but more put the work into developing the story and characters and also provides good insights in how Hollywood "thinks."

[@Lil5pic]

what if your entire script is a placeholder?

[@BigDaddyJinx]

Assuming that we have written an entire script, and it is viewed by ourselves as an entire placeholder...if you look close enough there IS a story to be found. You have to peel away those messy layers to get to the good stuff. It's in there. You only need to poke around and start peeling back the fluff and filler.

[@gonzaloleon-gelpi9151]

I spill it out first then spend twenty, thirty, fifty times as long to fix it. I have to do it that way. It's like I am thinking as I write. Something inside pushes me to write it as the idea develops in my mind.

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

But you may not need fifty times to fix it if you worked on the story, structure, and characters FIRST in a detailed outline before you started pages. It saves time. As I mention, the script should be a fast and pleasurable experience. Not writing where the writer gets stuck for a few days trying to figure out what happened on page 45. Again, you'll never just spill it out when you start writing on assignment. You can develop the idea in notes and an outline first. It makes the first draft come in around 60-80% there. And yes there will always be changes. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@JrtheKing91]

Sorry Mark. You should be given your respect as a writer. Our job's are what make things happen. Here are your flowers of respect 💐

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

Awe, shucks - thanks so much!

[@brandnew4451]

Screen writers are so underappreciated in the film industry, I feel we need to elevate someone to a rockstar level to give screen writers the attention they deserve.

Like in a level of Aaron Sorkin or Charlie Kauffman. We need more screenwriting power in they industry

[@WallKenshiro]

Exactly, and it's disgusting. Without the screenwriter there is no picture to begin with.

[@GoldStation.117]

Lol, thank you

[@HoltAircraft]

the dumbest way of making anything to be not make mistakes

[@justanameonyourscreen5954]

If you can't recognize and write a dumb screenplay...you'll never write a great one...sure some mediocre ones maybe... Edit: I'll fit in the hobby side of things...I could careless about the $...

[@jassmimis7150]

Anyone screenplay writers from London or uk ,I would like to talk and use help.

[@TheJuzi]

yes i am UK, have you been to film school or written for theatre/radio?

[@jassmimis7150]

@@TheJuzi yes I have written screenplays and I need someone from uk in same field

[@TheJuzi]

@@jassmimis7150 what are your goals? are you wanting to write for UK tv/film or US tv/film?

[@spacecatboy2962]

so at the wrap party, they dont pass him the bag of booger sugar

[@MarkSandersonakaScriptcat]

Nope! That's like Hollywood in the 80's and 90's.

[@Followthepage]

R u suffering from any disease