Dune 2 Is Hiding A Secret Villain

[@DeSpaceFairy]

Team Leto II, I'm more of a tyrannical worm god king type of guy.

[@AlfieStudio]

Same

[@n0b0d1-rc6dz]

Hopefully the movies get to God Emperor

[@SethBogs]

​@@n0b0d1-rc6dz I really hope so. I actually hope they do the whole series.

[@moedube2942]

The Dune book and films proves the famous adage:" Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

[@masteryoda129]

the one who stays away from the throne of power is the right one.

[@Willysedom]

@@masteryoda129 and as soon as you make him sit on it he would be the wrong one. It's not a matter of who but how power is wielded. All knowing AI could be our savior. But in the Dune universe it were humanity's doom.

[@impala1977]

@@Willysedom when the Mexican revolutionaries unseat the president, Zapata refuses to sit in the presidential chair because he believed it was possessed and good men were corrupted by it. The president once promised him land reforms but could not deliver so he fought against them though the same president had been killed by internal and external interests(USA) and now there was a power struggle on who would rule Mexico. Villa did sit and you can find that famous picture.

[@Beawindmill]

"Paradox" is the key, unspoken word here which contains within it the tension of opposites. “The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. And even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn Whether or not Paul is good or evil depends on which side of the line, or what side of the war the characters/cultures happen to be on. Loved this video, and love the Dune saga.

[@mist3r_numb3r_3]

Agree with this take that Paul is a good person that inevitably becomes the villain despite his best efforts not to. You see Paul's sorrow in the film when he realizes the Holy War cannot be stopped as he despondently says, "Lead them to paradise." However, the books do a great job of pointing to a deeper villain taking form in the shape of the terrible truth that our genetics' and collective unconscious' desire for violence are the underlying orchestrators of the events leading to the Kwisatz Haderach. From the final pages of Dune: "Here was the race consciousness that he had known once as his terrible purpose. Here was reason enough for a Kwistz Haderach or a Lisan al-Gaib or even halting the schemes of the Bene Gesserit. The race of humans had felt its own dormancy, sensed itself grown stale and knew now only the need to experience turmoil in which the genes would mingle and the strong new mixtures survive. All humans were alive as an unconscious single organism in this moment, experiencing a kind of sexual heat that could override any barrier. And Paul saw how futile were any efforts of his to change the smallest bit of this. He had thought to oppose the jihad within himself, but the jihad would be."

[@luksen8998]

I would have quoted exactly the same line. Because it beautifully depicts how Paul on a private level still rejects the Fremen jihad in his name, but also acknowledges that it is ultimately unavoidable, and he is the only human being in the entire universe that knows this to be a fact, as he understood that it is the only way to guarantee the survival of the human race, having seen the golden path. In my opinion the main problem is, that the movies do not accurately convey the difference between Paul Muad'Dib Atreides/Usul and the Kwisatz Haderach/Lisan al Gaib. In the books, it is made very clear that Paul in private is a completely different person than the prophetic messiah the universe needs him to be, which is also apparent in the relationship with Chani, which is completely different between the books and the movie adaptations. And at the end of it all, he is just a stepping stone to the real baddy of Dune, as his son, the god emperor Leto II, is the real "villain".

[@mist3r_numb3r_3]

@@luksen8998It definitely is striking some of differences between the film and the book, particularly the depiction of Paul's inner world, character, and personal dilemma. It was far more nuanced in the book, and the revelations Paul had came quite sooner, changing the underlying dynamics and tension in his journey and the events of the book. The ecological aspect and its influence on the Fremen's theology and prophecy was strikingly absent as well, apart from a few tangential lines to explain the history of Arrakis for the viewers. I empathize with Denis, and even David originally, in their difficult position to adapt to the screen as directors what lives so well on the page. So much of what makes Dune literarily brilliant is the subtle, quiet intricacies of the internal dialogue of characters as well as the underlying waves of possible futures propelling the inevitable forward. I think given the incompatible differences between mediums, Denis did a great job streamlining into a coherent, cinematic experience that strikes at heart of Herbert's message. But again I also see your point in that the film lacks the same depth and robustness in its delivery and exploration that the books do. But you gotta admit, he brought the world to life in beautiful fashion. Truly captures to surreal yet believable beauty and horror of that universe. The cinematography and world design reminds of the cutscenes in a Kojima game with its clean and weird splendor.

[@_Fulgur_]

“All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.” - Frank Herbert

[@louisfriend1]

Herbert puts this statement to the readers of the Dune series like a blunt object. Particularly with regards to the Bene Gesserit, but in a nuanced way that a lot of readers misunderstand. The BG have a duality about them that they themselves have a problem recognizing. In most respects they avoid being in direct control of human affairs, but only so far as it doesn't concern their breeding plans for the "One" who will ultimately have enormous power. They're pragmatic and constructive towards humanity about everything but this, and nothing must be allowed to stop it. The lengths that they resort to can be described as murderous and 'pathological' as well. So, even the 'protectors' of knowledge and memories are prone to the same primitive forces of power and control. Paul is a direct byproduct of this, and falls prey to his own foreboding vision - Victory for the oppressed by the defeat of evil - through the use of greater evil he himself wields to create an even greater oppression.

[@adrianjones9773]

“No more terrible disaster could befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a Hero” Kynes, Dune. Frank Herbert.

[@master11211]

Not evil, just put in an impossible position wherein he can see all potential future outcomes and from such chose what he believed to be the best path for humanity and his family.

[@kenandbarbie-b6c]

Yes, but people say these things without reading the Dune series of books. They get a Cliff notes like online versions without reading and a few online interviews of Frank Herbert posted on the internet. This changes, especially after reading Chapterhouse Dune, Frank Herbert’s last book he published in the Dune series in a small reveal regarding highly evolved Facedancers curating mankind. Paul & the Bene Gesserit were not the master manipulators. They just thought they were, & did what they were designed to do.

[@judsongaiden9878]

0:13 You know how he became that way, right? It's not just his Hutt-like tendencies.

[@stephendrew4683]

He is not villian, he is born to be an experiment

[@fullonrandomgaming]

Hate to tell you but he's still a villain

[@davidgill3356]

And he still made his choices.

[@GuigEspritDuSage]

I think the books speak more about the danger of messianic figures than the danger of absolute rulers in general. Because the believers expects him to accomplish the prophecies. When Paul choose the path of the revenge and the victory against the Harkonnens and the emperor, he choose to become this Messianic figure. When this happens, he think he is prisoner of his prophecies (his pre-science, his visions) but he is not, he is prisoner of the prophecies the Bene-Gesserit built and inserted into the fremen's myths. At the moment he became fremen's savior, the movement of believers became unstoppable. The "holly war" (jih*d) could not be prevented anymore, even in the case of Paul own death.

[@dukeon]

Herbert was warning us about prophets, messiahs, autocrats. People like Putin, Kim, Trump, Netanyahu, etc. And if you think about it, Harry Potter, Frodo, Luke Skywalker, and pretty much every “chosen one” trope that _so_ many books and movies use as a lazy template for a “heroic” story. See: Joseph Campbell, et al.

[@byronwilliams7977]

The religious influence in Dune is Islam primarily, definitely takes a backseat.

[@fanman8102]

Yes, sir! Interesting how people think this is Jewish or Christian isn’t it!

[@faessle4067]

it is about every abrahamic religion

[@Sajuuk]

I don't agree. It's obvious the Fremen messianic religion is based on Islam (which itself is a variant of Christianity and Judaism). Frank Herbert even said so in interviews.

[@dukecraig2402]

​@@Sajuuk Islam isn't exactly a "variant" of Christianity and Judaism, and what it is isn't because Frank Herbert said so, the history of it, how it came to be and everyone's understanding of it was around long before Frank Herbert was born. First off the narrator of this video either didn't want to name drop Islam specifically because like so many people nowadays, especially one's who have a public platform, he's afraid of any kind of attention or controversy that'd be aimed at him especially by Muslims so he just took the Jewish story part of Islam and used it, which is most likely the case or he's just plain wrong like he is in saying Paul's just the next one in a long line of evil leaders, but I doubt that, even though he's wrong about Paul when it comes to him naming Judaism as the influence for that part of the story I'm fairly certain he did it simply because he doesn't want to be bombarded by verbal attacks from every Muslim who'd watch this video. In regards to what Islam really is, it's a perversion of Christianity and Judaism, it's a nonsense fairytale story that hijacks other fairytale stories for it's own devices, it's history is no more than a clever man who went around telling disenfranchised people that Christianity and Judaism are really a perversion of the real story of what happened which is the tale he went around telling people, that was basically him taking two established religions and spicing it up just enough to convince those disenfranchised people's that it's really their story and that they're really the one's who are guaranteed an afterlife in heaven/eden/paradise (whatever you want to call it), complete with virgin slave girls, like who wouldn't want to hear that? The weak link in the story is the prophet Mohammad, it's easy to get away with telling everyone who has Christianity or Judaism as a religion that they have to take things on faith because their stories date back to an era when very little official record keeping existed in the world, but the story of Mohammad starts almost 700 years later when record keeping was very much a thing, yet despite all the tales about him there's no official records of his existence, no official records of the people named as his cohorts, no official records of someone supposedly being that important and influential visiting the kingdoms and estates he supposedly did, absolutely no official records whatsoever of anything about or pertaining to him or his group outside of the same old "trust me, it's in our good book" narrative. What disenfranchised people wouldn't want to hear that the biggest religion in the world is really their story that someone stole and left them out of? What disenfranchised people wouldn't want to hear that they're really the one's promised paradise, complete with virgin slave girls, and that the people who stole their story are doomed to hell? Yea everyone wants to hear that, especially the disenfranchised.

[@Kai_soze]

@@dukecraig2402every religion is a perversion. It’s all the same shit just different gods/profits, books and rules

[@wingsclippedwolf]

I waited for mention of the Golden Path, and it wasn't there.

[@samueledecarli1800]

good video man

[@AlfieStudio]

Appreciate it

[@politeia3542]

Paul Atreides is a breeding program end product of the Bene Gesserit the Kwisatz Haderach, a human being with full sight into the future development of the human species. In these forecasts the full extinction of the human species occurs almost everywhere as long as it lives under one rule. The only way out of this extinction is the Golden Path which spreads humanity over the whole universe faster than the expansion of the one ruler. The djihad is only the first neccessary step of this evolution.

[@jeremytrippe7501]

Loving all the vids! Keep it up!

[@AlfieStudio]

thank you jeremyyy

[@bnlbastos]

Great channel. Subscribed instantly.

[@AlfieStudio]

Thank you !!

[@ayopacheco1]

Is it a fake prophecy if it’s true? He fit the profile perfectly and what are the odds that he overcame everything thrown at him, he survived drinking the water of life etc. He even tried to get out of the role but could not avoid the war. I think the prophecy was true. In any case, what is a prophecy if not a foretelling a story that one accepts and embodies?

[@TheTrueAegonTargaryen]

I’ll follow my Muad’dib til the end

[@timtemple2230]

My favorite quote from frank was "Religion is the weaponization of sexual energy" If i remember correctly he said this through Leto ll.

[@jschreiweis]

There is a common theme amongst those that experience the futility of rising against despotic rulers, and that is a desire to see civilisation start again.

[@dukeon]

Like the phrase, “The King is Dead, Long Live the King!” Revolutions inevitably produce new rulers who turn into new despots 🤨

[@ArteMust]

an antagonize, a villain, not must be evil.

[@Sajuuk]

Yes, well said. A good villain must appeal to the audience, their cause must resonate and be relatable.

[@georgeghleung]

The best way to understand how much of a Dark Lord Paul is, is to skip to the last chapter without reading the rest of the book. (I did that to confirm if Paul said "Silence" calmly or shouted) Interesting that you didn't quoted Herbert's goal regarding Dune “I wrote the Dune series because I had this idea that charismatic leaders ought to come with a warning label on their forehead: "May be dangerous to your health." "

[@jeffmarlatt6538]

Pretty good video.

[@AlfieStudio]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@johndough2441]

"The Harkonin" and shows Shardukar

[@julianduquemin7701]

dun-eh? Dune!

[@fanman8102]

Interesting however I would point out that Paul eventually accepts his role. Is a myth a myth if the myth comes true? I would say no, it was prophecy even if unintended. In his own mind Paul becomes the villain because he sees the path but in other’s mind Paul becomes the messiah because he will set things right, regardless of the cost. The Bene Gezerit spent centuries trying to produce ‘The One’ and even created a myth to control a certain people. Unfortunately they didn’t get what they wanted or expected because the myth turned out to be prophetic. The Bene Gezerit could not see the future nor the cost of creating The One. They only knew The One would set things right. And now that my mind is working on it - just because you believe something is a myth doesn’t mean it is. Man, this story (at least the first book) can really take you down some rabbit holes! Also, the religious aspect of this story is more Islamic than Jewish or Christian.

[@oldboy1904]

You have a long way to go on this journey of Essay's. It's not Duneh, it's Dune. Whether you're speaking American, Doon. Or British, Dyune. It is never, Duneh. Jesus christ

[@BrooklynWalker]

Abusive of his power, corrupting and corrupt, yet not evil. Chaotic good, perhaps.

[@Nick-zp3ub]

Paul is an antihero rather than a villain. The harkonnens and the emperor were the villains for scheming to destroy the atreides family by luring them to arrakis. Paul had to do whatever it takes to survive and avenge his father

[@liberasog]

Excellent analysis. Excellent video.

[@AlfieStudio]

thank you :D

[@barssahin9723]

Evil by moment. He thinks very very long term(whole book series long).

[@AlfieStudio]

Comment if you're Team Paul

[@forthesnowflakes7691]

No comments (just stating the obvious and not team Paul)

[@Nearside]

Does this channel have an AI reader? I've noticed a couple of strange pronunciations of some words.

[@VictorSevenTV]

Take a shot every time he mispronounces something. You win if you live.

[@davidgill3356]

I liked when he faded into pig Latin at 1:25…”duneay”

[@davidwebster9788]

Its trendy to say Paul is the bad guy. But he is just another tool of the Bene Gesserit.

[@jasontempleton2445]

His son ends up saying"..he is the beautiful fool." He believed power was the answer, yet he was a fool.

[@metadrag0n]

Para un bando los villanos serán siempre sus contrarios

[@ryanjobb6403]

He isn't a false messiah, he is the messiah to the bene ges but they can't control him. They also are the ones who created the fremen prophecy so he is their messiah too just based on a lie. He is the result of trying to create a messiah and has that power, it just doesn't work out the way everyone expects...well to the fremen it does but in messiah they start to resent him after so much war and reduction of the desert and fremen ways.

[@masteryoda129]

0:12 fatness is ugliness is laziness is evil, wall-e movie gave the same kind of signal.

[@dordagiovex9989]

dune then propagates an oligarchic ideology then? power should reside to an aristocratic elite

[@AlfieStudio]

No, Dune’s point is that no individual should wield this amount of political/military power regardless of their intentions because it’s going to end up in chaos either way.

[@dordagiovex9989]

@@AlfieStudio but.. the late roman republic was a mess of aristocrats fighting each other while the ordonary people was Suffering, the state was saved by the institution of the empire rebalancing it in favor of the people (emperor was often siding with the people against the aristocrats!),. So in fact for centuries the emperor was a stabilizing factor ( elected by acclamation ane by battle by the middle class llegionaries, eventually voted out by assassination by the sake legionaries)

[@AlfieStudio]

@@dordagiovex9989 Frank Herbert's critique of power structures isn't applicable to every instance where they've existed. The book/movie is rather an allegory specifically for when they DO go wrong, which HAS happened, and continues to happen. "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible" - Frank Herbert

[@dustclouds]

Arrakis residency gardener? WTF, dude, it was Dr. Liet Kynes, imperial planetologist Everything you're blabbing about is totally incomprehensive, as you clearly haven't read the books

[@VictorLiso]

"Secret"

[@faessle4067]

These comments show exactly why he made the third book haha

[@Nibiru444]

Nah his not evil I'd do the same if i were in his shoes ''i will do what must be done''

[@belfigue]

Great take. I always thought that Paul Atreides’ life and his rise to power resembled more Muhammad and Islam rather than Judaism

[@glowmentor]

1:24 "Dune-ay" ????

[@kazawaz]

Is this an AI video? The pronunciations of some of the words are off...

[@JeantheSecond-ip7qm]

Disagree. The ultimate villain in Dune is human nature.

[@jimhoover7345]

Calling Paul a villain is a lazy and over simplification of who he is and what he does.

[@LigitandMeyers]

Meh..Villain is subjective. Batman is a Villian. But we are OK with batman as his villany is in the service of good and on a SMALL scale. Do it in the name of good and fair, on a galactic scale, killing billions, and it's bad? Leto II isn't evil either. The Tlelaxu are villainous. The bene gesserit are Villainous. The Matrons are villainous. Because these groups wish to harness power and authrotiy, and control it, to benefit their organizations, not humanity. Murdering billions to ensure your faction is on top is villany. Murdering millions to end oppression is..something else. What the Tlelaxu, Bene Gesserit, Matrons, The entire makeup of CHOAM, do is what Hitler did, which we can all comprehend and identify in that we knew his goals, and we can understand racism and the mania it creates to the point of wearing blinders and chanting "WHat I do is for the good of all". Paul DOES work towards balance. No 1 group or race is oppressed. All are equally punished. All who oppose his Jihad are put down. you do not have to follow his religion, his anything, but you may not oppress people, that's it. yes, millions die, maybe billions, due to it. In it's wake you have a sprawling empire that is filled with factions all subservant to him and spice due to addiction, space travel, and commerce. SO PAUL is not a villian...he just ends up one and he recognizes it and his failures....but not in the movie ;) messiah will be an interesting movie to see. Not sure how it can be parsed in to 2 parts without making it droning and redundant, or making significant changes, OR if they make messiah 1, and 2 is the intro to Children of Dune. WHAT I DO KNOW...Is no movie that is to be taken serious , will have a giant, school bus sized worm, with a human face, and nubby arms, leading a galactic empire, as it's main character like in the books...and get green lit ;) SO..either God Emperor does not get made or there is a LOT of revision whic hwill piss off purists..no matter how stupid the worm idea was, to me..Sand trout..pfff

[@DeLdEl789]

Paul is eren yeager??

[@jpeero]

paul is evil

[@sabichaokujo3307]

being a cruel hero is different than being a villain. paul and leto arent evil, they simply have no choice in the matter. either walk the path to humanities salvation no matter how much bad must be committed, or walk away and it all happenes anyways. in the end, its still a story about futuresight. in the grand scheme of things of course hes a product of someone elses plans, but thats how existing works. plus unlike them and like i said paul is a literal messiah and not a figurative one like he LITERALLY sees all possible futures and knows which is the best for humanity(which evidently required him to be a tyrant which he COULDNT take doing. this is why he walked away and his son, born of the same abilities, decides to not falter in his place. this created a dune universe where arrakis is a paradise and yet keeps some worms. spice no longer produces nor creates conflict. future sight is now impossible, ect. in the end theyre still heroes. as i said, they do it not because they like the freman, or because theyre especially kind. its because they have no choice. dune implies heavily that the ONLY reason any of it happens, is cuz future sight. once it has been seen, it cannot be unseen. it becomes truth, no longer probability. they envisioned peace and acceptance. they could NOT get there without all the pain and death(well they couldve but futuresight had already corrupted the futures to come since the bene have long existed) THIS ISNT FOR ALFIE THIS IS FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BAD LITERACY SKILLS

[@baronwarborn9107]

This is very far from the books. Villeneuve completely changed the focus from the book. Paul and his son see the golden path where the AI Omnius returns and kills every thing in the universe. If u will make a video at least read all 18 books first

[@BrianDay-wp2mc]

Blah blah blah blah,just stick to david lynch version,and read the book for cryin out loud ,the influence religiously is islam,byron williams7977 is correct!

[@ogslowdragon]

This is why you need to read the Bible. Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves"

[@neelmadhun85]

Woah where did that come from? The 'Orange Catholic Bible'?

[@davidgill3356]

@@neelmadhun85He cited the passage, imma go check it right now.

[@neelmadhun85]

@@davidgill3356 I was being sarcastic. Google the OC Bible I mentioned.

[@neelmadhun85]

@@davidgill3356 I was being sarcastic...Google the OC bible I mentioned.

[@neelmadhun85]

@@davidgill3356 I was being sarcastic. And I tried to post replies to your comment. Google 'OC Bible' I mentioned and you will understand.

[@bonnypop5764]

Du Ne?