Dungeonborne Patch fixes key class balance issues (July 29th) - Why I prefer it over Dark and Darker

[@monkey3101]

I’m really happy to see the transparency and reasoning of the developers especially. They quickly address oppressive, draining playstyles which will make people quite frankly detest pvp such as Druid. The idea of them having all the agency with ranged, melee options and insane mobility being heavily nerfed in a way which is compensated (even if excessive) to make it still good but less cheeses is amazing work from the developers. In addition to this, these changes aren’t small which I am all for, these aren’t minor changes to hp, cds, etc. they want the meta to shift and you can tell. I feel like the developers actually want the classes to feel great to play and care more about player perception of pvp more than purely their vision on the class. I'd like to see Priest buffs sooner or later though because it is very underrepresented and unseen basically.

[@kokeanikilator]

Dungeonborne has a serious case for being a more fun game than Dark and Darker, Dark and Darker has to get their shit together real quick now

[@omidog06]

It already is in my opinion, having more focus on the fights and having more counterplay between classes with more satisfying feeling attacks had me won over when i first played compared to dark and darker feeling like im swimming through tar to die in one shot from some magic or barbarian who donks me through a door. I get some folks will prefer DaD over Dungeonborne but it aint for me. Also helps being able to try out classes without having to full delete your character as a free player too

[@cookiebandit101]

Yup my thoughts exactly. Honestly I hope they both succeed. I enjoy aspects of both games

[@miraclehuman5262]

I tried a lot of dungeonborne and god its so boring and fuck i gave it a genuine try but i cant i watched a lot of videos to see if i could like it but it seems like a less finished dark and darker game more rushed and just generally worse

[@colezeller4861]

@@omidog06 dark and darker was more fun to me and many others back when gear attributes were stronger on gear. Also nerfing everything is bad for fun. Nothing is fun any more. It was fun before now it isn’t. Which is crazy because there has been an uptick in great CONTENT or QOL. But a huge down spiral of balance changes

[@omidog06]

@colezeller4861 thats understandable, if you spend time buldcrafting something fun and the devs decide to smite half of your build it definitely takes away the drive to play, i get nerfs from a balancing perspective but often times rather than keeping things fun and interesting they dull things down way too much so everything is just boring

[@danielmcclellan8877]

i stopped playing league long ago but its good to see my favorite guy weigh in on patch notes still, loved hearing your opinions hachinchin

[@Jimminia8D]

As a new player fighting a Druid or cryomancer feels bad 😅 but hopefully it balances it because I started playing cryo and it’s so fun

[@MonkeyCurler]

@@Jimminia8D Right now, cryomancers are cracked. They're tough to fight

[@j.d.4697]

BTW there was a misunderstanding when I said Soul Shroud was 40% more dps in my tests instead of 100%. You were talking about damage per tick, I was talking about damage until the soul pool is empty.

[@kennethyates1725]

One reason rogues are extremely strong is because vanish can be exploited in a way other classes suffer. if you over pull or aggro too much, you can leave stealth and kill someone else because they will then take the aggro. I played rogue myself and seen this myself plenty of times. This one simple mechanic makes rogues bonkers.

[@CurseSeer]

Rogue feels like the weakest class in the game in pvp. Every time I die the other person has 75% hp left somehow, even though I hit them 17 times. Being able to avoid pve only gets you so far. When I play cryomancer I just troll through everything, I don’t need to stealth.

[@Melted4k]

I have like 1k hrs in dark and I agree for the most part.

[@andrewcaballero660]

I really love dark and darker.Played it for hundreds of hours with my friend... warlock main. But, I agree with you. I think they have a twelve year old who is in charge of balance at Iron Mace.

[@yungbobross6418]

I think dungeon borne is pretty fun but I find it to be only a dark and darker competitor in concept. The second to second gameplay feels much slower and spell users feel waaaaay more versatile than melee/phys damage users.

[@cuddlybear781]

Im pretty sure priests are so low picked because most people play solo. And theres no reason to play priest solo. Priests are only being picked in duo and trio and I'm pretty sure solo is much more popular. I only play priest duoing with my friend.

[@TheRgProdigy]

Not a hater, but thumbnail pulled me in. Anyways, Big DaD and DB fan. It seems though you don't have a full understanding of dark and darker and have a better understanding of DB. So when you directly compare the games, it seems a bit, underwhelming to say the least, and possibly ingenuine? At 8:50 you talk about movespeed diff between dark and darker and DB, you say the classes have different move speeds based on the class, in dark and darker this is also practically true. All classes in dark and darker have by default 300 movespeed but are governed by their initial agility stat(disregarding armor negative/positive effects/modifiers) so some classes have less than 300 move speed without gear equipped by default. From the wiki "Agility governs your Move Speed." 0 Agility starts at -10 Move Speed. 0 -> -10 0 to 10 = 0.5 each, up to -5 10 to 15 = 1 each, up to 0 15 to 75 = 0.75 each, up to 45 75 to 100 = 0.5 each, up to 57.5 So, for example, slower classes, meaning classes that by default have lower agility stat, like a cleric, will have lower movespeed than other classes. like a rogue. All classes by default have a total of 105 stat points allocated to them and the majority of the power of those classes is divided and balanced along those lines, disregarding unique traits and perks the classes unlock fully at level 15. Good vid, but in general Id advise if you lack the indepth knowledge of dark and darker id avoid doing direct comparisons imo, to avoid hate or comments that disagree with you. Stick to the strengths in DB like the crafting system, and map design etc. But keep doing this if ur comment baiting DaD fants, tbh pretty smart, heck you got me to explain some shit you prob dont care about anyways LOL.

[@Shinshinvariety]

All of that doesn't discount that 300 base movement is 300 base movement. DB now has a class with 20 less base movement speed. That's all the comment meant.

[@TheRgProdigy]

@@Shinshinvariety I just picked out one thing to make an example I wasn’t gunna dissect your whole video or every opinion/comment you made, just was making a point how they balance movespeed is they adjust stats on characters(agility) or weight on armors that class wears etc. League of legends characters also have all unique base movespeeds like dungeonborne, doesn’t mean anything if you don’t understand why these things are in the same context. I find it interesting how DaD has done it, it’s much more unique than just giving arbritraty movespeed to characters, and it’s more akin to dungeon and dragons or a classical rpg

[@sdunned7842]

Both cryomancer and Druid are still broken. They buffed the panthers damage and didn’t even touch cryo curse damage or cooldown.. completely brain dead builds.

[@Shinshinvariety]

I think druid is gone after these changes. What are they gonna do, jump in to melee then lose? Then be unable to jump out?

[@manusan1014]

No priest buff is MAD INSANE Also no swordmaster nerf... Still, decent patch tho. 🗿👍

[@xyo1337]

Yeah ngl I'm surprised about that too. I liked that they had priest over cleric, a more support focused class. Priest in DB just feels very weak.

[@IIITangentIII]

I know you get a lot of hate from the dark and darker fans, but you are not wrong. I am also a dark and darker fan, but I moved to dungeonborne because investing in a completely new meta every patch is just getting annoying. Instead of balancing it just is the creation of new problems every single time. I do realize game balance is difficult. For every game. It just seems to be a lot more problematic in a game that puts out patches changing of meta weekly? It's just silly. I'm glad you pointed out how horrible fighter is. It's really horrible just everyone remember that. No one play fighter. Awful.

[@Shinshinvariety]

The meta they pushed isn't even fun I played a few games of run-it-down barbarian just popping rage and sprinting at people with felling axe and it was boring. Very little subtlety in that one. I wanted armored duels.

[@IIITangentIII]

@@Shinshinvariety I feel the same way. It's either one hit kill insta murder fights or kiting ranger Bard shutting doors running away more kiting for 5 minutes fights. It's your choice of not fun but you do get a couple choices of not fun to choose from.

[@cookiebandit101]

I love playing cryomancer Pyro and druid and rogue but I find druid and cryo are the only ones I can survive pvp with.

[@walczak9862]

I think dungeonborne just simply feels way better to play.

[@TMazuru]

I play fighter, and i tell you, druid jump 8 sec CD my jump 30 sec. It was 5 to 40.... This patch make no difeference in this matchup.

[@zurcarak]

oonga boonga me hear you talk bad dark n darker me post angy comment oonga boonga

[@j.d.4697]

DB is still more "melee-focused" than Dad, IMO, because it gives melee combat and melee classes more tools. However, something I have become disillusioned over is the desync. Too many times do animations and melee attacks not match properly, which is really bad for the parry system.

[@dellort]

DK and SM has always been a very even fight, DK didnt need buffs imo

[@magnusschleinkofer7362]

Comment for traction

[@TasmanianGodGeo]

You movement speed is different for each class at base, along with passive levels from 1-20 and also equipment etc

[@JessicaMorgani]

That's so cool

[@Hurbieo]

Dark and darker is more for the hardcore PVP players where dungeonborne is way more arcadey

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

Not even, Dark and Darker is minmaxing and one tapping.

[@dominikplattner2916]

The dark and darker changes remind me of league, and not in the good way

[@beroning]

DB as a game is cool in the sense of: its always nice to have competition in game genres and have more options of games. but i strongly believe DB meta has tons of balance issues and the only reason they are not as apparent is because people didnt mix maxed yet since is a new game + honyemoon phase. its Dark and darker all over again if any of you remember playtests which had insane balance issues but everyone ignored till people figured out the game and broke the pvp, devs had to change the game heavily, and at this era DaD devs also were super transparent and posted Data multiple times, but later they gave up on the idea, i am not 100% sure why but i think was because people were Overfixating on the data and using as a tool of toxicity towards the devs and certain class/mode players. (actually they did post some small data recently about classes playrate) I hope that when DB honeymoon phase fades people dont all of the sudden are hating on the devs and going crazy like they did with DaD. DaD survived... for 2 years, with legal issues, lack of developers and lack of funds and is doing better than ever with 25 - 50 k players depending on the timezone and how deep into the Wipe/season and being consistently in top 20 Twitch in viewership. i Hope DB has the same sucess or even more, market competition is good for us players.

[@beroning]

He became a hater of Dad because he got mad that DaD players were correcting him on his wrong info spreading. The entire problem started because he thinks "his opinions" are valid even tho he doesnt even play DaD that much or even understands the game mechanics, so basically all his DaD videos have sprinkles of nonsense combined with his ego being unable to understand he doesnt know what he is talking about. His perception of DaD since the first video he is posted is cleary of someone that explored very little of the game, most his "complains" are literally new player issues, that people deal with it after a little while playing. DaD is wierd and unique game, it is not new player friendly and that is bad... but Devs are correcting this issue every patch.

[@jstlink89]

Ya there's some weird ego trip or something going on. He sounds a bit crazy, starts off saying devs are amazing at balance. But then the stuff he uses to support that claim seem like terrible design and balance to me. He says fighters can't do anything cause can't catch, then the patch didn't address that. Says priests can't do shit either, then they got no changes he also says. I don't get how he is getting good balance from this.

[@beroning]

@@jstlink89 no even mentioning how Cryomancer is insane Atm, literally breaking the entire game with point n click Nukes and being unkillable, How is this a good patch LMAO

[@Dmachtz]

ironmace are pretty good as a rapid development/ deployment team but as a live service team they are like throwing darts blindfolded

[@JuanAntonioGarciaHeredia]

​@@Frosty-rd6enIron mace are the devs of DaD not DB

[@CrowziYT]

I quit DB because I got one shot by a swordmaster psionic blades while I was a fighter. Not once or twice but 3 separate times. No counter play I could have done. 1100 hp gone in a split second. Was confused the first time. Second time I was just upset. Third time yeah not fun anymore.

[@kreathyr8270]

Ever heard of blocking?

[@CrowziYT]

Yeah let me just put the shield on my ass next time.

[@anbusmoke2451]

You just press E and dash away until hes psionic goes away amd then you life steal with your Q

[@CurseSeer]

I tried Dark and Darker again the other day because I hadn’t played in a while. I queued into a solo goblin cave as a wizard, I stepped on a trap and it dropped a basic skeleton champion, no big deal I got him stuck against the environment and proceeded to cheese him. It took 8 fire balls, 10 magic missiles, 10 zaps, and 6 explosions to kill him. A basic, non-elite skeleton champion….. Never again.

[@Yeetus223]

@@CurseSeer npc’s have high magic resistance. If you’re a spell caster it is still best to melee them.

[@CurseSeer]

@@Yeetus223yeah, nothing about that is fun lol. I will gladly pass and play dungeonborne instead.

[@matsu11177]

Go toplane

[@kennethyates1725]

toplane does not exist. It cant hurt you.

[@brunob4566]

what is that?

[@matsu11177]

@@kennethyates1725 but with atrox

[@jstlink89]

Says dungeoborne has better balancing and talks bad about dark and darker balance. Then his first 3-4 points are all horrible. Druid just gets perfect information? Death Knight has a pull that just auto wins fights. You said fighter can't catch anything so in solos it's just pointless, but then their buffs didn't do anything to address that and you even acknowledge that fact and say i guess they are making him for 3s. Seems to me your evidence is directly countering your point. Dungeoborne doesn't sound like they know what they are doing. And this guy is super confusing, it sounds like he's trolling. Idk how you can start the video claiming these devs are just so so much better than dad and then proceed to show their balance patch to be nonsense.

[@fourjhin_cookies]

The only thing I like more about Dark and Darker, is how you need to aim your shield to block (would be nice if it wasn't so janky tho) and how the parry/riposte feels with the longsword. Everything else I prefer Dungeonborne, especially the maps. Also in WoW shapeshifting does indeed clear slows/roots/polymorph!

[@lobobanguela6349]

Fighter is a terrible mix between Barbarian and a Commander. Its just weird. They should make a Barbarian class, and make a separate Commander Class that have AoE buffs and tank stuff.

[@blurb-p3m]

This guy has become a full blown DaD hater, just go play DB bro

[@beroning]

He became a hater of Dad because he got mad that DaD players were correcting him on his wrong info spreading. The entire problem started because he thinks "his opinions" are valid even tho he doesnt even play DaD that much or even understands the game mechanics, so basically all his DaD videos have sprinkles of nonsense combined with his ego being unable to understand he doesnt know what he is talking about. His perception of DaD since the first video he is posted is cleary of someone that explored very little of the game, most his "complains" are literally new player issues, that people deal with it after a little while playing. DaD is wierd and unique game, it is not new player friendly and that is bad... but Devs are correcting this issues every patch.