So I Read Those Terrible "44 Rules for D&D" and...

[@agosto310]

The part about "they are kids" is spot on. It reminds me when I started roleplaying with some friends and I had regular arguments with one of them, because he was a powerplayer and tried to break the game each chance he had. Once he even told me "who do you think you are to tell me what can I play or I can't play in the game". And I said: "I'm the game master". In the end I came to my senses and just stopped calling him to my games. It was better for both of us.

[@silasrobertshaw8122]

I started playing at 7 years old. I was ridiculous. Our whole group was. We had a blast, but we were definitely doing many of the slightly more benign things like cheating. No breaking stuff or ruining it. We did always show up on time cause it was the best thing we did all week.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Amen

[@SilverionX]

@@silasrobertshaw8122 There are TTRPGs specifically designed for kids these days, the one I'm thinking of is from 6 years and up. With an adult GM, of course. Times change. :)

[@castrinecubique983]

people often forget that going their separate ways is an option

[@castrinecubique983]

@@silasrobertshaw8122 one of our DM is playing with his family, the youngest being 7. He often tell us how he has to herd their attention back to the game, and make more bathroom breaks. It's definitely a different rhythm with children/teenagers than with a bunch of adults in their 30's/40's

[@brentnorton1602]

Makes me realize how lucky I am to have a great group of players at my table.

[@BrentRogers5]

A great group keeps you interested and in love with the game!

[@brentnorton1602]

@@BrentRogers5 It really does.

[@horusfalcon]

Absolutely!

[@BDCSam]

Same here!

[@L3monsta]

You're very lucky. I hope that one day I can have a group where everyone gets along and regularly shows up to see a campaign to its completion

[@sqidvishus]

"If you metagame, your character will immediately take damage." The irony is delightful.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yup

[@csmead209]

When an OOC discussion of tactics could fucking save time, do you really want to damage them for trying to point out where the enemies could strike from?

[@Wraithspartan]

​@@csmead209honestly, as others have pointed out, this list is quite often a knot of contradictions.

[@seigeengine]

It really depends on what the DM means when they say metagame whether it's reasonable or absurd. I do think the idea is funny though of metagaming inducing damage caused by reality itself.

[@voxsvoxs4261]

@@seigeengine I'd like to think it's something like 'the fabric of reality has warped to give you this knowledge, but in turn exchanged it with your flesh' honestly it would be kind of cool to have that as a hard mechanic.

[@fturfler2]

I recommend that this group hold off on the drugs and alcohol until after the game.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I agree.

[@robandtina]

Drug enjoyers are famously great at taking advice.

[@Deliriumend]

@@robandtina I mean, it's a simple test. Either you can hold off the bong for 4 hours until after the D&D session...or you can't. If you can't, you should probably take that as a sign that you may have a problem and begin addressing it before it gets worse. Of course, I say this with the experience of having already gone through my teens and learned that lesson (thankfully not with drugs) the hard way on several occasions.

[@strawberrylotlizard]

Hey my group of 7 would smoke all session and we did well

[@themost8352]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Prof BuzzKill

[@kid9893]

We covered this on my podcast a week or so ago, during that I explained how the person who posted these rules got caught on other forums saying him and his friends were screwing with this dungeon master making his life difficult.

[@McHobotheBobo]

Yeah there are some shitty gamers out there

[@ForeverDegenerate]

So they drove this poor DM to a Mental Breakdown INTENTIONALLY?! What a bunch of assclowns!

[@jojozxc1234]

@@ForeverDegenerate Sadly bad people play this game too :(

[@L3monsta]

And if you watch xp to level 3s video on this topic he goes so hard on the DM he didn't even think to read between the lines to see what was actually going on. Incredibly uncharitable video

[@solouno2280]

I said it before I say it again: I wish either Carrie or Mike Myers had a word or two with these players... And you know exactly what I mean: "red ink"

[@OutwardThinker]

No 14. I play with people who are "on call" for work. One person recently got deployed on a coast guard rescue mission 10 min before we were set to begin. 🤷‍♂

[@samflory]

Yeah I'm on call 1 of every 4 weeks.

[@bobreaper2142]

Real life comes first I have a friend who has a elderly mother he will be 60 minutes late always.

[@KHfanz]

@@bobreaper2142this is my tables rule too. If you’ve got a real life thing come up at the last second, it happens, just let us know and we’ll reschedule to the “backup day” or just cancel.

[@douglascolquhoun8502]

Exactly, I felt horrible for having to call in at the last second, last week. Flat tire and riding a donut. Thankfully, everyone was fine with it because life happens.

[@thedabblingwarlock]

Just curious, but did this have to do with the Michigan VII incident?

[@solouno2280]

We had broke our old forever DM too many times, but never to this point...

[@nowayjosedaniel]

Was the DM a literal child? 😝 The writing and attitude comes across to me as someone below the age of 18.

[@solouno2280]

@@nowayjosedaniel the first time i read it, i feel that he had enough. Believe me, our carpool player had enough of having to travel both cities and now i am on my own (then he also refused to travel the entire of his own city too, this would had not happened if I didn't move out i guess) and we are both gen-xs. Also the "you break it you buy it" happened to me, and seriously, these players look more like some frat bros who you wish Jason Voorhes had a talk to them... many of his rules are more of "ENOUGH" and the OP gave me "dude it's just a prank, bro" vibe

[@huttj509]

@@solouno2280 I mean, when I was in my 30s the group had one player who was often, how to put it, a little too drunk to be fun at the table. I can see a lot of these things being college age, or even more. Yeah, the complete breakdown of communication and ranty response feels younger, but I've absolutely seen similar "I've had enough and am also not handling this well" manifesto situations happen with folks in their 30s and 40s.

[@leodouskyron5671]

@@nowayjosedanielThis reads to me like a young adult that had been trying to get this game group to work and it isn’t and they want to keep him being DM. He is old enough to know what he wants but not mature enough to get it or leave. That is just part of growing as a player.

[@nowayjosedaniel]

@@leodouskyron5671 college kid. Imv still a child but a grown up one.

[@sleepinggiant4062]

It's a list of demands for returning to the DM seat for these bad players. 18 - he's talking about dog-piling rolls. E.g. the wizard fails an arcana check, so the party all rolls to try and get it. The barbarian gets a 19 knowing more than the wizard. 37 is not contradictory. It's treat me like a DM, not your friend that will break rules for you.

[@justinmargerum2559]

I've seen a few other KZbinr takes on this one, and it all boils down to this: If you remove all the hurt and malice, most of these are not terribly unreasonable expectations. It's just the valid points are almost completely buried beneath this mountain of anger and frustration. I appreciate the way you provided the added benefit of cutting through the rhetoric filter to focus on the merits of the "rules" themselves. This is probably the most mature, based, and insightful take on these "rules" yet. Bob World Builder's take comes in at a very close second. Also, Deathbringer should absolutely steal that last line. 😆 He did! That was perfect! Thanks! It was worth sticking it out to the end of the video!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks so much!

[@hariman7727]

Also... eff combat zones. They are the shittiest most vague and pretentious "Oh, it workes THO much betters because it's faster"... but you're left with a vague: DM: "yeah bruh, you're kind of close but not too close. If you move any close, the dragon will roll opposed seduction because of you trying to charm them into not attacking." Bard: "My time has come!"

[@singledad1313]

@@hariman7727 I agree on combat zones. I tried it many years ago in one of my campaigns that I ran and it seemed to slow down combat. A lot of "yah, but..." with every possible move. The system we eventually adopted in all my games was rather simple. Player tells me what he wants to do or move to, states his movement rate, and I make a quick decision of yes, no, or maybe but with penalties. Worked great and combat ran so much smoother and quicker.

[@matthew7419]

You can't remove the malice. I admire the professor's generosity here, but disagree with the take. Teens should be held responsible for writing stuff like this. Even if you cut the GM some slack for internet bravado, frustration, and having bad players, it's still inappropriate. His rhetoric clearly expresses aggression and lack of empathy, not frustration. I do feel bad for him because he clearly has some very bad role models.

[@hariman7727]

@@matthew7419 What I have heard is that a PLAYER posted this, and that the group of players were deliberately instigating/antagonizing the DM, which got this reaction. So... if that's true, I'm much more inclined to be easier on the DM.

[@spaceranger7683]

3:30 There is also "the Intelligence conundrum" - where you're DM'ing for someone with a super-intelligent character who isn't very gifted in real life. Had lots of wizards at my table making 5 INT decisions on the regular over the years...

[@Woodclaw]

That problem exist with all the non-physical stats.

[@mbg4681]

@@Woodclaw It also exists in real life. There are plenty of stupid smart people in the world.

[@nowayjosedaniel]

​@mbg4681 The stupid smart people are mid, but due to education come across as having a higher INT. It would be like a 1-10 score and being a 6 or 7. This seems low, but when you go out in the world and see people with 1-5 INT, you realize a 6 or 7 is the high end of society and they seem really smart. But 6 or 7 is still stupid af compared to 8+, and everyone seems like an idiot to a 10 until that 10 touches grass and talks to the 1-5 INT's of the world and realizes 6-7 is most doctors, lawyers, and PhD'. So yes - mostly idiots still, but geniuses compared to most people (1-5).

[@jamesyoung7400]

That was one of only things I disagreed with, and disagreed with the most. A player is 100% allowed to player a character stronger, more dexterous, more fit, smarter, wiser, and more charismatic than they are. Roleplaying comes in many flavors and a player using just the dice roll and stating what their intent is - is enough and other need to accept it, just as everyone at the table accepts and tolerates your bad accent and monologed of what happens when I asked for a persuasion check.

[@samflory]

@@jamesyoung7400Right at my table you either need the stats or the actual words.

[@blackraptor311]

I like Mr. Welch's list of Things he is no longer allowed to do In TTRPGs. Things like: - My Paladin's battle cry is not "Good for the Good God". - I will not think of Dwarves as burrowing animals. - It is saving the Princess, not bringing back sexy. - Even if they are the same acid blood aliens, I can't load my shotgun shell with baking powder.

[@solouno2280]

the half dwarf with two shields always made me laugh... in 5e they got rid of dual shielding but wonder if he would try it with their replacement race (tortles, plus they can duck and have other +2 to AC)

[@Thurmanation2011s]

You're boring

[@hoi-polloi1863]

In re Paladin battle cries, why not bring back the classics. Say, "Butt-kicking ... FOR GOODNESS!"

[@blackraptor311]

@@hoi-polloi1863 If Mr. Welch does this, he would have to put it on the list.

[@minnion2871]

I don't know, with the "Shotgun shells filled with baking powder" I'd probably just rule that the wound squirts harmless foam for a turn or two before the acid starts coming out.... (Or clarify that the "Acid" is actually a really strong base)

[@ironbomb6753]

Your own time spent on gaming is precious. A group of "friends" that that would drive their DM to this point of frustration isnt worth it. 😮😑

[@horusfalcon]

Young ones have that boundless energy which can make this happen without their realizing it. Setting ground rules at the outset of a game is never a bad thing. It also sets expectations for what you as a GM will and will not tolerate at your table. That can dampen enthusiasm, but it can also bring realization and improvement to the game.

[@sitnamkrad]

Unfortunately, some GMs don't see their players as friends. And not even just those who do it professionally.

[@sitnamkrad]

@@horusfalcon Personally I take more issue with the tone that is used in the list. To me, it clearly comes from a place of hostility and frustration. Regardless of how valid the actual rules are, presenting them with this tone is *never* an improvement to the game. It really sounds like the GM is like Prof.DM said, not quite an adult yet. And in my opinion uses his spot as GM to try and get some kind of control or power over things happening in their life. The ironic thing is, the tone that is used will generally make people not take you seriously, and especially with not-quite-adult people, might even have them intentionally push the boundaries to get a reaction.

[@horusfalcon]

@@sitnamkrad I don't so much as take issue, and just try to understand where he's coming from. I've been there.

[@robinmohamedally7587]

@@sitnamkrad I don't give a shit about his tone. Those kids fucked around with him, and this is as human and justified a response to them as any.

[@mainmarco123]

A player in one of my game often plays high charisma characters, but they struggle to form their thoughts and get anxious when they stumble through what their character wants to say. I let them just describe what they want to say and roll. Like "I wan't to try and convince the guard I'm a friend! Maybe mention how I was once a member of it years ago?" or "I wanna talk this goblin down from blowing up the smokepowder barrel. Can I try to convince him it isn't worth it?" It works well and it makes the player happy and the game progress, which makes everyone else happy too.

[@jonellesalazar6662]

When you said, "What we have here is a failure to communicate," my mind immediately jumped to the movie Cool Hand Luke. 😊 gosh, I'm old.

[@UltraDonny5000]

That film is a solid banger!

[@Matt_Volk]

Obviously he's raging... But it's cathartic to watch and I can sympathize LoL 😂

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for stopping by!

[@normanlennox4949]

A couple of my players got a little pyromaniac thing going, and kept threatening to set everyone and everything on fire. If they had come back to the main base town after one quest they were on, they were going to find royal guards brought down from the city to chaperone and possibly arrest them.

[@BBRSCN]

In high school I had to play with whoever was available and it was painful. In my 20s and on, the I was able to join groups that were much more to my liking.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yup

[@BBRSCN]

Recently I posted on Reddit about booting a guy a couple of years ago for being a power gamer and negatively affecting the group. I was destroyed in the comments. Reddit truly is a thunderdome of some opinions.

[@nowayjosedaniel]

​​​@@BBRSCNRedditors are the lowest IQ 17-24 year old man-childs you will ever meet. Insanely anti-intellectual, ultra liberal (right wing) american politics obsession including all the chauvinistic and racist liberalism (racist and sexist but not blatantal about it and hide it with some shame), massive god complexes bc their IQ is around 100 and they went to school with

[@VoxAstra-qk4jz]

​@@BBRSCNSome people just ignore the R and P in RPG. If given the opportunity, gamers will optimize the fun out of games.

[@stickjohnny]

​@@BBRSCNReddit freaking sucks for discussing dnd. If you make a post and then make the exact opposite post you will get destroyed in both comment sections.

[@samflory]

Honestly as a DM I feel his pain. That said in reddit terms ESH. (everyone sucks here) A few of these actual not entirely bad rules although they are often extremely poorly implemented or stated.

[@bobreaper2142]

I agree and it's how the rules are presented if a dm talked to me like that I'd get up and leave.

[@taragnor]

@@bobreaper2142 Yeah the rules aren't all bad, but the DM writing them comes off as a major a-hole.

[@samflory]

@@taragnor But how they are written seem to indicate his players are too.

[@samflory]

@@bobreaper2142 Right it's a toxic table al around. Maybe there are non toxic players who's only fault is they aren't willing to bail.

[@horusfalcon]

Bingo. I would be willing to bet that with a little spit and polish, no one would take exception to these rules. What's making people get all twitchy is the language. That's an Aussie thing. We shouldn't expect cultural values to be the same all over the world now, should we?

[@angryghost521]

No gm ever starts like this, i have to wonder what the players kept constantly and consistently inflicting on this gm to get them to this point.

[@paull7968]

Love Dungeon Craft videos. I'm glad you pointed out the probable age of the group. I remember as a teenager and trying to get a group together who were all on the same wavelength as far as the game was concerned. Fifty years later and I am still playing with several of those people.

[@ForeverYoungKickboxer]

Same

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Same!

[@bobreaper2142]

Me too not as long 10 years

[@wikinut1]

One practice that I've adopted that would address several points on the list (borrowed from older editions) is using the "caller" system. One player is the "caller," they collect every move, intent, and roll from every player in advance and then communicates directly with the DM. It simplifies turns down to a back and forth between the DM and the party as a whole, and individual players still get the spotlight when necessary. Everyone rolls out damage/effects as if they hit/succeed, so there's no time gap between rolling to hit and rolling for damage. It requires everyone to work out their plans in advance, and everyone is aware of what everyone else is doing. It also gives the DM a larger block of time to work out rolls and upcoming events behind the screen. Of course, any player is allowed to ask the DM for clarification, points of order, etc. It's not a strict system, but even casually attempting it has made games faster and more orderly in combat especially. This absolutely wouldn't be enough to salvage this DM's game, but it might be useful to others with similar issues with better groups.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

The caller had its uses. It's especially good for kids--it helps them listen to one another.

[@solouno2280]

It would had saved my party from a cone spell I did. Literally everyone put themselves in front of me after I called it. Worst of it? I maxed out initiative

[@ForeverYoungKickboxer]

I haven't delved into this little bit of craziness but I will say at our table of grognards who are retired fighters, soldiers, and a combat medic, the option to resolve disagreements physically is always present. I recognize that our table is certainly not representative of most.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for watching! And sharing!

[@jamesyoung7400]

This made me chuck, in the army me an one other guy would rotate as DM/GM every so often. I can totally see the fight me rule being said in fact it might have been tossed around a few times.

[@rickc-arelsii6276]

I can relate. The last time I actually played table top was in the barracks at Ft.Campbell. Good times.

[@UltraDonny5000]

I want in! I miss playing in the barracks. One of my buddies from the back in the day and i were in a game ran by a civilian when 5e was fresh. He had no idea what to do every time we started using Marine Corps tactics. Roadside ambush? Yeah, we insist on pushing through. Red Brand hideout? Seal the entrances, set fire and pick off survivors including flat out executing the ones who were suffering smoke inhalation. We got an archer, a fighter and a string of beads of force? Sounds like classic breaching techniques for this entire dungeon floor. He hated our ruthlessness!

[@waffleswafflson3076]

I recently ran into a player who insists you have to memorize the rules front to back because "DMs cant be trusted". and "I go by the rules not what some DM makes up on the fly". So I guess there IS market for AI DMs

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Good luck with that. Even Gygax said the DM has the final say.

[@ericfleming5522]

I'm trying to wrap my head around thinking "the DM cannot be trusted." Sort of sounds like that player's sole motivation is winning the game rather than any of the other things I like about TTRPGs.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

@@ericfleming5522 exactly. That’s how I played when I was 11-17

[@commiedeer]

@@ericfleming5522 I once had a player like that in college who was like that when I was both a player and GM. Kept trying to power game constantly so he could be an 90's action hero, accused me of favoritism with another player (the only player that actually played the damn game.) He also regularly dressed up like Albert Wesker from Resident Evil (not joking) and handed out business cards advertising himself as a paranormal investigator (again not joking)... I still have one of his cards in my wallet because it's the only way I have proof that someone this insane actually existed. I consider hitting up the contact information on that card to see if he's still the douchebag I remember then I ask myself why? Anyway, you actually hit the motivation square on the head. It's about some notion of "winning." Someone would blame video games for this mentality but I've also met old school pre-video game players that also very much think this way.

[@UltraDonny5000]

Sounds like this guy needs to run a few sessions since he knows it all

[@jamesmoore2232]

Dm- •sent a mean text Players- •cheating •high/drunk •eating at table •breaking stuff •not paying for broken items •showing up late or nog at all •mocking the game •mocking the dm •showing up unprepared Oh yeah, the dm is for sure the only bad guy here. I’m honestly surprised so many online personalities are siding with the players whole heartedly on this one and I’m glad you see some reason at least.

[@robinmohamedally7587]

they're grifters. They know where their bread is buttered, and that they have more players watching their BS than DM's, because there are more players than DMs.

[@jamesmoore2232]

@@robinmohamedally7587 hadn’t thought about it that way. Good point. Dungeon craft has never been the place for hand holding either, a lot of these content creators subscribe to the watered down babyfied versions of dnd that have become mainstream these days decrying anything more serious as toxic. Glad he sticks to his guns here and provides a level headed examination.

[@irontiger33]

Sounds like toxic players and a DM that needs to find a new group. Not worth all that just to play D&D.

[@ironbomb6753]

That's what I thought as well. How long has this group of players been jerks to this DM? I'm sure it took more than a couple sessions to drive this DM into this state of mind. Hobby time is precious. 😢

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yup. But you can't always choose when you're 17.

[@cadenceclearwater4340]

Wish I could ⛲️

[@Turtlpwr]

You forgot the fact that the dm is also kinda toxic.

[@DoctorTurdmidget]

Nah, they deserve each other. If they split up, they might infect other groups.

[@terrencemiltner1005]

Watched a read through of them and felt bad for all involved and hope, if they were real players, they all found better hobby partners.

[@markhill3858]

yeah .. my no 1 rule is games are supposed too be FUN. this sort of stress at the table .. just walk.

[@MahkyVmedia1]

​@@markhill3858the person writing the rules doesn't really run a game they're just angry

[@WoobooRidesAgain]

@@markhill3858 Personally, my Number 1 Rule on Reddit is that everything posted on there, _especially_ any "tabletop horror stories" are lies until proven otherwise.

[@robinmohamedally7587]

@@MahkyVmedia1 no, no, he did, Captain Dunning-Kruger. The OP in the reddit post was one of his players, he posted this to mock the DM they were asking to come back and DM for them after a self-imposed hiatus, and these were his conditions. Redditors looked thru the players' post history, saw him post many times about he and his group giving their DM a hard time for fun, and when they confronted him about it in the comments, he dirty deleted. Now. Doesn't it feel good to know what actually happened, instead of being smugnorant? Doesn't it?

[@MahkyVmedia1]

@@robinmohamedally7587 how do I know that's what actually happened? You're just some random.

[@TheShadowKarl]

Ha! I assumed rule 44 would find its way into the final Deathbringer comment and I wasn't disappointed! Great way to foreshadow the end!

[@davidhansen951]

16:41 "The Cool Hand Luke" 😂 WHat, we have HerE IS a FailURE to COMmunicate! Lol

[@dragonhowto]

When I DMed in middle school to other middle schoolers, i ran into similar issues (never to that degree). You either have to draw clear and concise boundaries or find new people to play with

[@alicepbg2042]

10:56 - putting a monthly plan for excalibur in something now... maybe a demon who gives the sword to the next paying person and takes the soul from the previous owner to do so... "only 5% of your soul per month!"

[@evansteiner8627]

6:33 "My son threatened them...and they put him in jail. He went and cried to his mom, but he learned there are consequences." Combining the roles of dad and GM!😂

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Gotta dad.

[@anthonybird546]

Sounds a lot like an annoyed teenage DM. I had these kinds of feelings as a teen.

[@soniaiboyako4023]

The question is did you actually talk to people like that ?

[@anthonybird546]

@@soniaiboyako4023 apparently I must have had some semblance of common sense and kept it to myself. Being prior to the World Wide Web either, it just sat on my computer.

[@Wanderinpaladin]

I tended to agree with your points on this. I've had all these issues come up over the decades. I've had potheads, dice cheats, and players who thought the DM/player dynamic was adversarial (DM= enemy in/out of game) The most recent problem is one guy who likes to poll the group to determine the best/most effective move in game. I implemented timers for a few sessions and missing a couple of rounds for "Your character is frozen with inaction" got him to know what he was doing before it got to his spot in the round. I still bring the timer out but haven't flipped it in years.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for sharing!

[@007ohboy]

​@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Name the RPGs that dont have magic shops. Because most do. Forgotten Realms also has magic shops. You saying magic shops don't exist in TTRPGs is the minority view. If magic shops don't exist, why are there prices for them? Mindblow...I know.😅😂

[@Wanderinpaladin]

@@007ohboy 5e doesn't have the prices or setup for magic shops earlier editions had. It's up to the DM to create a system for it which we all do. You have to make a list or download a list with prices for items. They have a price range by rarity table. I like the crafting/magic item selling of earlier editions like 3.5 or Pathfinder.

[@007ohboy]

@Wanderinpaladin DMs who are afraid of magic items are limiting and boring. My Mystical Monk is currently level 10 and has an Amulent of Health, Headband of Intellect and Winged boots that were all purchased in a traveling merchants shop. She makes a ton of gold off of us meeting in different towns/cities. Even with all that, DM still finds ways to make the game challenging. Not hard to do. Also, if you are a DM complaining there's no good use for gold but you also don't allow players to spend their gold getting the magical items they want, you kind of are the problem. You have devalued gold so much no one wants to even try to track down rich adventurers and unload their goods onto them. Very strange thinking IMO. I'm in 5 campaigns right now and they all have magic shops. Because it only makes sense. Merchants would have a GREAT INCRNTIVE to collect magical items and then CHASE down adventurers to sell them to them. Hello! How dumb would the Fantasy merchant class be if they didn't go around purchasing magical items to upsell? Profit, baby. In the RL, merchants went literally around the world just to get a hold of spices.... But in a fantasy world they wouldn't trade in magical wares to produce even more profit? That's more silly than ordering one "Excalibur". Here's just one example of Forgotten Realms having a magic shop by Volo himself. "Phalantar's Philtres & Components, east side of the Street of Bells is said to sell magic items by Ed Greenwood in Volvo's guide to Waterdeep"

[@Wanderinpaladin]

@@007ohboy I'm glad we agree that earlier editions had magic shops and price lists. The specific shop you mentioned was last published in 2005. I'm also happy that your DM like every other DM, myself included, figured out a work around to allowing players to purchase magic items. In different campaigns I've had many merchants. One was a high level wizard, one was a beholder, the latest campaign has the Gnome Depot. However, I had to set up my own pricing system. I use "Sane Magic Item Prices" by Inconnunum.

[@spaceknight793]

Re CHA type checks…. I only ask a general concept, not the actual language of the persuasion. Example “I appeal to his fear of harm,” or “I threaten his family.” At that point the die roll tells us a couple of things-does he have a family and how much he cares about them…. A roll of 3 doesn’t just mean you suck at threats, it can also mean you picked the wrong threat.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Interesting take.

[@Gharbad_the_Weak]

Exactly! It's the same with Intelligence rolls.

[@solouno2280]

You roll 1... Everyone rolls for initiative You fail: he looks unamused, and says "I hate Mondays", "I don't have a family" or "my mom is a hag, make my day" You succeed: you hit a nerve and he surrenders Roll a 20: he even escorts you

[@seigeengine]

I really hate that approach, but it's completely understandable. Personally, the approach I like most is "do the best you can to roleplay it, understanding I'm not actually testing you on how intimidating you can actually be." Whether that's because rolls determine it, or because I'm going to respond earnestly back in a roleplaying-focused way is another matter. The fact is you can't completely abstract the player's charisma without completely avoiding roleplaying. Heck, a player with bad enough charisma isn't going to be able to be enjoyable to play with. And you can't abstract the player's intelligence completely out without basically reducing the game to a "win at life" check.

[@vancomycinb1193]

@@seigeengine I like this. The way I've run these things is I use the roleplaying to add *bonuses* (and ONLY bonuses, I never subtract from the role due to the RL Player's Charisma/Intelligence or lack thereof). A *really* well-played roleplay might get a +2 or +3, while no-roleplay, or just something cursory gets nothing. It encourages effort from those that *want* to try, and if someone is feeling shy or introverted it doesn't really hurt them any.

[@johnobrien2643]

I LOLed @ "Taking drugs at our age is taking Aleve." PREACH. (God, I still miss Orudis.) 👴

[@trublgrl]

Rule 45: If you keep saying "Gay -master" instead of "Gamemaster," and I call you out, and you say "But I was _saying_ 'Gamemaster!'" I will pack up my things and leave. And we're breaking up.

[@TheArcturusProject]

Hahaha lmao I’m gonna be on the player side of that now

[@areallybigdwarf4560]

3:08 yes people have to roleplay in the tabletop roleplaying game, it makes zero sense when someone says "I'll persuade the guard" and then the dm asks "ok what you say to the guard?" and the player goes "HUUH BUT I ROLLED A 19" and the dm has to say "ok you persuaded the guard i guess"

[@solouno2280]

Well, most players either say the wrong stuff (one that goes OOC or socially awkward). So yeah, the *but I rolled a 19 it's a success, the DM can fill the blanks for his story to make sense. The character maybe a dashing knight, but if the player is a misogynistic reggaetonero, it would not work to force him to RP.

[@areallybigdwarf4560]

@@solouno2280 ok so the dungeon master should roleplay for the players... thats.

[@solouno2280]

@@areallybigdwarf4560 not for all, just those that lack of skills which their characters have. I mean, if the couch potato plays an elven rogue, you don't force him to run a mile

[@areallybigdwarf4560]

@@solouno2280 you sound insane bro

[@solouno2280]

@@areallybigdwarf4560 more like fair, forcing an introvert to roleplay every single word that his escapist character says is a recipe for disaster

[@endymallorn]

I’m glad you never had an emergency. I’ve had family members go to the hospital within hours of a session.

[@jeframdenkar]

The funny part of this is the list was appareblty posted by one of his players not the DM themselves. Apparently the player thought posting this would be some kind of win. Did not work out the way they thought it would.

[@jamesyoung7400]

On reddit I'm sure it is, although DMs look at it and think I agree with the vast majority of it, although wouldn't word it that way.

[@samflory]

@@jamesyoung7400 The DM is an asshole although it seems like so are at least some of his players.

[@jamesyoung7400]

@@samflory The DM isn't an asshole, the dm is frustrated with his current group and who knows what pushed him to this point. To me it sounds like someone who tried playing nice and being friendly and it didn't work and something was the straw that broke the camels back and if I had to guess it was miniatures or books getting damaged.

[@samflory]

@@jamesyoung7400 I agree the group pushed him too far, but if you respond like this you are likely an asshole too. He is threatening physical violence over fairly minor things for example. Normal people say fuck you find another DM. Assholes write deranged 44 point manifestos.

[@Spellweaver5]

Some people still condemned the DM. Did I say people? I meant redditors.

[@nathanlh116]

For what it’s worth, I LOVE the “less exposition” video. As always, wise insight from PDM.

[@Garou179]

I really feel how some people treat charisma is a double standard. Making a player playing a charismatic Bard has to be convincingly persuasive in real life, is the same as requiring a player to be a able to physically wield a greatsword to be able to use it. It is good to encourage roleplay and there are ways to do that without punishing players.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I concur.

[@Arbbal]

That’s why I make my players role play the basic gist for what their characters are saying then roll. God role play gets a bonus poor penalties, the attempt is what I’m after. I get people aren’t necessarily as charismatic as their character, but everyone can at least try. Now if someone does come up really good in the role play, I’ll forego the dice all together.

[@davidholman6709]

This is the way

[@alextrio3995]

I knew a guy who used to push that a high charisma character had to roleplay their checks perfectly or else they fail. I argued against that. One time I was DMing a one-shot game and he was using a high strength fighter and he wanted to pick up a barrel full of mead and roll it down a set of stairs the bad guys were running up. Neat and heroic for sure. I looked him straight in the eye and said "Now imagine if I said YOU will have to stand up and move the refrigerator across the floor in order for Hector (his character) to be able to roll his strength check" He got the point right away. Character in these games are constantly doing things the players are incapable of and no one cares one bit. It makes no sense to suddenly change that when a character tries smooth talking someone.

[@DJWidget]

Probably the most concise and helpful go-through of the full 44 I've seen yet. Thanks, Professor!

[@megasquidd]

I am blessed with an awesome set of friends that love the game. Thanks for reminding of this fact.

[@roumonada]

3:14 you’re forgetting about the AD&D encounter reaction system, which is a three-part system that counts on dice, your character’s charisma score, and the dungeon Masters impression of your ability to role-play the situation

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yeah. That wasn't the best part about AD&D. The B/X reaction table is SO much better. Mork Borg and Shadowdark use it.

[@lachrymalquietus]

9:23 re: Failed Checks. I do this at my table. If one character fails to pick the lock, no one else can try to pick that lock. However, someone else could instead try to smash it, light it on fire, steal a key, whatever. I don't put anything critical behind a roll. The locked door might be the most convenient way to get to the destination, but never the only way. Same for a treasure chest. I'll put a fun bonus in the chest, but never the MacGuffin.

[@kremlinkoa]

What is your, in universe, justification for why nobody else can try to pick the lock?

[@tuomasronnberg5244]

My friend is a car mechanic. If he fails to fix an engine then I don't go tinker with it on the off chance that I could get it running. The same applies here in this guy's game.

[@lachrymalquietus]

@@kremlinkoa if everyone is going to roll the check until it succeeds then that means that there is no consequence to the check, so there shouldn't be a check in the first play.

[@kremlinkoa]

@@tuomasronnberg5244 SO fi your friend fails to fix an engine, you ditch that car? You don't try another method? or find another mechanic?

[@kremlinkoa]

@@lachrymalquietus An example of a consequence of failing a pick lock check Time is spent and it is not unlocked yet Time is a thing in the game story. Also I asked for an in universe explanation. Not a metagaming one.

[@Doxicyclin]

your snippet @10:45 gave me an idea to reincarnate the party from a TPK as a foreboding dream the night before they did something really stupid and dumb (but extremely fun, lol).

[@cybermerlyn2]

I cannot help but wonder if this is some kind of in school "club", my friends when I was in HS would not treat me like this.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

You had good friends. Some kids do. My daughter's friends were great kids.

[@thesonofdormammu5475]

I could have written a similar list when I was in my mid 20's, I was playing with mostly 20 year old college students and yeah, they did not appreciate my time at all. I tried having a serious campaign while they were more interested in stealing all of the ball gowns from the queen's closet. One character wanted to play a faerie and it didn't fit with the rest of the group at all. Glad I made it through those years.

[@artistpoet5253]

Yeah, the first time I heard about 'goblin prostitutes' made me laugh...still does.

[@goldenalt3166]

Prostitutes, yes. Goblins, yes. For both together, I'd check with Minthara.

[@starshinewindlord2716]

by the time we're at number 38, I see this person as someone who's been viciously abused, and is making sure to pass the pain along.

[@TonyLS9A]

Grids came about because we all used to play on graph paper back in the day. It was easy enough to place dots on either the actual map or a “blown-up” tactical version.

[@Nathan_Talisien]

Grids predate that, lol... D&D evolved out of Chainmail, which was a super tactical game focused on combat with minis, and a ton of players came to lay out their battlefields on grid systems to reduce arguments over things how far a given mini could/had moved, or if a target was in range of archers.

[@TonyLS9A]

@@Nathan_Talisien yep. Played that as well. Just as you said.

[@UltraDonny5000]

You never got seamstress paper for a 1' grid?

[@TonyLS9A]

@@UltraDonny5000 Look at you. All hi-tech. 😁 Sadly, nope.

[@Nathan_Talisien]

@@UltraDonny5000 We bought a dozen or so rolls of plain white wrapping paper of questionable quality from Dollar Tree every Christmas... The back of it had a grid in 1/4" squares done in a very faint blue; we'd use a pen to make 1" squares, and a black Sharpie to draw out maps in-game. We had a 36" × 36" one that we covered with clear packing tape as a poor-man's dry erase mat for combats, too. ***edit: By "we" I don't mean to include anyone else in the comment thread... AFAIK, no one I game with is in here, lol. 😅

[@Dhyfis]

Ah, the angsts of a new DM with young players. Never had those problems when I was in the hobby in high school, but I did run into them in college. I do believe that everyone who plays the hobby at some point should sit behind the screen for at least a bit. It absolutely changes how you play for the better.

[@michaelpowers4961]

Emergencies? I’ve got two players, a married couple, who have 5 kids, four of which are under 10. The oldest at 13 plays as well. Sickness runs through them like crazy. Cancelling last minute is common for one reason or another and kinda expected at this point. I won’t ever be upset someone is taking care of their kids or themselves instead of playing a game.

[@simonburley2692]

Good job. The most calm, even-handed and sensible response to this I’ve seen. Oh the joys of age, experience and wisdom.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Indeed. Stay tuned. More to come.

[@opscontaylor8195]

I honestly get this dude's #17. Been running TTRPGs for 38 years now, starting with B/X. Only like the last 10 years have I started to see at public tables (I do demos at game stores, Cons, and books stores a lot, as well as I was desperate enough post COVID to join a public table with 9 total people) this idea that "Because I bought it, you have to let me use it" and no, no I don't. If I didn't buy that book, even in PDF, there is likely a good reason. If I DID buy it and STILL won't use it, there is a REALLY good reason. It seems like, but I don't have enough data to prove it, that we are getting a new generation of TTRPG players that come from video game backgrounds. And they come to public tables thinking that this is going to be an in person MMO, and the GM is the Meat Computer running the math for them.

[@Mpcs84]

The part about being a GM making you a better player is absolutely true. When it comes time to invite someone new to my table someone with GM exp has a much better chance as I know they will be a better player and there is a chance I might get to play on off weeks.

[@ballisticus1]

Good video, and anxiously awaiting your take on the Tomb of Horrors

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Oh, the cameos! They will rock you.

[@Nathan_Talisien]

From what I've been able to gather, the DM is either in high school (or secondary school, depending on where you live) or just out, and the players are university-age, so a few years older. Intentionally pushing the DM to this point isn't youthful immaturity; it's outright bullying. While I don't agree with quite a few of the "rules" on the list, I completely understand the DM's frustration boiling over to this after weeks (possibly months) of coordinated harassment. IMO, the DM needs to: 1.) Tell those players to jog on; their soup isn't worth the spoons it takes to sip it. 2.) Out those players and their behavior to the local gaming scene, so no one else is hurt by their antics. 3.) Take some personal time away from the game, to decompress and normalize after so much focused stress. After all that, THEN find a new group to play with... Perhaps return to the game by joining a group as a player first, and if the DM likes those new people and the game they play, offer to run the next campaign.

[@aurith01]

I know the verbiage comes off harsh but if it is Australia, then its probably just how they talk....I don't think alot of the rules here are all that harsh - don't break my things, respect everyone's time, don't cheat, and remember my rules are final...I'm an incredibly lucky new DM... all my players have 15+ years exp with D&D and they actively help each other so I can focus on narratives and running combat and less on on the rules as written. If not for the support of my players, i could see anyone getting to this point.

[@aliquidcow]

Yeah I didn't know at first that this was Australian, then it made sense. Swearing is much less harsh to them I think. I remember someone telling me they had an Australian housemate who landed themselves in a lot of trouble throwing around certain swear words that they didn't realise were so offensive in other countries.

[@dustincoopermusic]

I have to admit that you are way more patient and understanding than me on this. I would have gotten to 10 and just moved on since it was frustrating me to hear how bad this situation got out of control. Great vid! and your "More Explosions" vid was one of my favorites

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for watching my best videos. I've been a teacher for 30 years, so I have lots of patience.

[@dustincoopermusic]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Well, your empathy on the subject is a great example. It's real easy for a lot of people to jump on the DM's or the player's case when reading this list, but you come at it with more understanding than most. Thanks again!

[@YoriTheHuman]

Excellent video as always, Professor DM! Not only I learned a lot but got a lot more inspired by this video. Honestly, I share some opinions and aspects here and there. Funny list and probably going to apply one or two points from it in my own table. Wish me luck!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Good luck!

[@Evelyn-rb1zj]

My rule of thumb for charisma checks is you can roll as long as you tell me what you are trying to achieve but if you gave me an idea of how/what arguments whether by describing more thoroughly or acting it out you'll for the most part have a better chance of success (unless the argument/action is something the npc directly opposes or would be ineffective, like threatening a devil with fire. Likewise if the player has a perfect argument for the situation I'm just going to let them succeed with no roll necessary) and I might ask for some more elaboration especially on intimidation checks where there would be completely ineffective methods or persuasion/deception/performance checks where it's unclear what the exact goal is like trying to convince the guards to let you through but I don't know whether they're going for the "it's the right thing to do" angle where it would almost definitely be persuasion (unless they're all evil or something in which case I'd probably let them pick that or deception) or whether they're going for something like "the duke of placename sent us" where it's deception or if they're dressed as nobles and using that deception/performance or actively causing a distraction so the party can sneak in again deception/performance depending on the nature of the distraction or something else entirely

[@halkyuusen8626]

One of my house rules is, "everyone takes a turn behind the screen (Dungeon Mastering)" and the difference between players who have and haven't game mastered is clear.

[@joshabel6157]

I loved this video! Honestly, as a parent, I can hear and sense your paternal instincts and experience coming through, and I really appreciate it. I appreciated how you didn't just bash the DM but also didn't trash the players. I feel that this was very level-headed and a great take compared to some other takes out there. Another great video professor!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks. Adults gotta adult. Kids gotta be kids.

[@David-su4is]

I've seen this list under review a couple times now, and i gott'a say, i feel for the GM. I'm prety sure this list didn't get handed out in session zero. This person has been pushed to this point of ludicrousy (i don't think that is a word). They really need to game with better players. As you said, we all play our own style of game... I once had someone quote Jeremy Crawford and i just said i don't care, he doesn't play at our table. This whole thing is just nasty.

[@Wintercide]

I believe 'lunacy' is the word you were looking for. Also for added context the poster had other comments bragging about how the group were intentionally harassing the DM.

[@WandererEris]

Grids got popular because past editions of D&D assumed their use, and it's even built directly into 3.5e. There's also multiple official D&D products that make use of grids, from dry erase game boards to miniatures with bases sized to the grid. Lots of off-brand retailers and people selling 3D printed models also make their products for a grid. This includes Paizo, whose dry erase matt I personally use, and Pathfinder encourages a grid as a result, so the two biggest games in the space want people to use the grid. Also, you might consider it boring, but not everyone does. I personally find it a lot better than other systems because it leans heavily into tactical combat where positioning is important. You also avoid the "Are these goblins in a line?" issue and won't need DM judgement because you can clearly see where the goblins are and if you can line up your area attacks. You say in an off-handed way that grids are metagaming, but I don't understand that point. If you were really in combat you would be able to see where your opponents are, so why is having their locations represented with a grid metagaming? I feel like this might have been a comment in the heat of the moment, as I can't see how you'd justify it. Honestly, a lot of what you say about grids here comes off as personal bias, rather than considering that people might actually enjoy it. I don't enjoy theatre of the mind or zones, but that doesn't means I'd outright call them bad or metagaming. It's opinion, and you really shouldn't state yours as fact.

[@bboyjaynerd]

I was inspired by a merchant in the game 'Kingdom Come: Deliverance' to have a magic shop where it's a little too good to be true. The merchant is selling uncommon but fairly mundane items which they have renamed to make them 'one of a kind' so to speak. However, with my merchant there's a little twist, the merchant does indeed have a couple actual magic items at a bargain, but they can't tell the difference. "They're all treasures that could alter your destiny or be the key to staying on the true path," he would surely say. My players haven't met this fellow yet, but your DM advice on conflict design has never tarried from the true path of demolition and fun.

[@vercingetorix721]

It took a long time for me to find players that wanted the same things I did as a GM. I think a lot of groups go through this kind of thing as they grow up. Also, the Aleve joke killed me 😂 good work once again, and send my thanks to Deathbringer for saying the thing at the end 🤣

[@whatinflecktarnation]

I LOVE ALL DUNGEONCRAFT VIDEOS AND EVERYTHING PDM DOES. I AM SAFE AND NOT IN HIS BASEMENT.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks!

[@JosephHeller-el8zo]

@2:50 You mention “taking something away from the players is problematic”. I remember an earlier video where you mention a Paladin rolling a “1” and dropping his Holy Avenger off of a cliff. Is that different than taking something away, because you are imposing a consequence to a roll of Natural 1?

[@lukasz88888888]

When you have cheating players, kick them out, even if they are your friends. When I was running Cyberpunk 2020, one of my friends was cheating on cash and XP... When I was sure he was far beyond rest of the team after two sessions, just told him I know he is cheating and I know it isn't his first time. I told hem if he want to play, he can make new character and give me his new card to be secure, if not doors are there.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Harsh. But sometimes people need honesty.

[@Rabidconscience]

5:40 grids are popular because there is no ambiguity

[@level1paladin]

Great DungeonCraft video as usual. Obviously , younger players. I laughed so hard at the bong part. Some of us middle aged kids just smoke our doobies at the table. The glory of adulthood and hosting the game.

[@ForeverYoungKickboxer]

Amen

[@horusfalcon]

I'm not a fan of d20, but I have real respect for your perspective on these "44 Terrible Rules" for D&D. I also like the way you present your own positions on these, and how you came to valid conclusions about them. I am a _Traveller_ Referee, and a Game Master in Tekumel (using _The Petal Hack_ as a rule system). Yeah, I've been at it for a while. For me, there are but two rules for any RPG: 1.) The Game Master's word is law. 2.) If the Game Master is ever wrong, refer to Rule No. 1 This applies to me as a player and to me as a Game Master. I'm fortunate to be a member of a group of like-minded players and GMs who want to role-play as well as roll-play, and who want to develop characters who are interesting, have well-written backstories, and who are fun for their players to play. We rotate through our GMs so that, if one has a need for a break, another can step in and run a different game for a while. That helps avoid GM burnout, and makes for a variety of experiences at our table. This was my first time seeing something from you, and you did not fail to impress. I'm going to check out some more of your stuff. If I like what I see, I'll subscribe. Have a good one!

[@superkingwilly9367]

So many problems can be avoided if people just find the right group to play with. If you want a serious game don't have dipshits at the table.

[@jamesjenningsix]

I can sympathize with this DM. I've been DMing since AD&D and I've had all sort of groups over the years. Hang in there. It will get better.

[@GrayArmyGaming]

Really sad. 😢 I am grateful for my fantastic players. 🤩 Something really important to remember in RPGs is that ALL of us are there to SERVE one another-our job is to make everyone else look AWESOME. If everyone comes to the table with this attitude there is no limit to how incredible each session could be. This, of course, requires a good dose of humility and good will to your fellow players. If selfishness and ill will are the norm at the table, it is time to change oneself or find a different group.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Sounds like you players are GREAT! Tell them Professor DM awards them +1 level for being cool.

[@GrayArmyGaming]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Will do! 🤩

[@liogerzero]

so fun fact about this rule list, the OP (original poster) Deleted the post after some people dug into his post history and found out that him and the other players were bragging about giving the DM a hard time and a lot of shit for not doing what they want, when they wanted. A solid 50% of the rules if you take away the angry tonnage are actually reasonable. the other 50% seems to be a reaction to his shit players.

[@jamesyoung7400]

The spirit of their rules makes sense, and I sense their frustration is at a peak, I can understand. It sounds like that have some bad players and I'm already envisioning who they are, because yea I know quite of lot of players that would make this rule rant make sense.

[@DalePoole]

I've had two players over 40+ years that were a complete loss and ruined games. I didn't take long to end either campaign. My current group is fantastic. They are on time, they spend a lot of their down time learning more about how to play their characters, they are enthusiastic at the table and they ask lots of questions to clear up their confusion, not to challenge rulings. We played last weekend when I turned 67 years old, and they got me a 3D printer for my birthday. I guess I must be doing something right as a DM!

[@koolaidserpent]

I had a group I was playing curse of strahd with. I had warned them it was a harder than average adventure. We played for over a year and we're no where near the halfway point. My players never learned how to play their characters. I even work shopped, and printed class specific aids to help them. They just wanted to sit and have me play the game for them. We had to take a month long hiatus due to a medical issue with one player. I asked if they wanted to play something else in the interim, the remaining players agreed. I offered DnD or something else...they all let me talk them into another system. I wrote the scenario, prepped their characters and was excited to try something new after the slog that CoS had become. These players, him-hawed and essentially waited out the clock until the ill player was back. I wasted weeks and energy on these people, and they never had time...until we were poised to return to barovia... I quit. I said I'd continue as DM once one of them ran me as a player through a 5 room dungeon one shot. It's been 3 years.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I feel your pain. Thanks for sharing!

[@UltraDonny5000]

I got into a similar situation. I was volunteering my time at the LGS to run a game. I was saddled w a group of post high school kids and it felt like I was running a game for Scoobi and the gang. So many wasted hours of prep because they would turn and run at the first sight of danger, every time. On my 3rd or so attempt to introduce a BBEG into the game, I put them in an unavoidable situation by setting up a roadside ambush. These brats couldn't have handled the attack worse without intentionally killing themselves. After the session, these kids cried worse than veterans that I know who went through similar ambushed in the real world at the same age. I was so disgusted by those *kids* that I cannot even look at them without being angered and now I barely even go to that shop anymore.

[@Eltnum421C]

Those are big red flags for me: if you've been playing for over a year and still don't know how to play your class properly, that's usually a sign of disinterest. Hope you can find a better group.

[@myrealitybubble9606]

In AD and D charisma DOES have an effect on NPC reactions. If someone doesn't show up I use them as an NPC and they get no experience points for the session. I have been playing AD and D since.the 70s.

[@samdoorley6101]

Listening to these 44 rules makes me tired, and a little sad. Man was I ever this bad? Hopefully everyone involved in this gaming group moved on to a better situation.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Yup.

[@waungaer]

Thanks, Prof. DM, for taking the time to instruct and guide others. You have taken a post of passion and frustration and given back the gift of wisdom for those willing to listen. I love ALL Professor DM and Dungeon Craft videos!

[@salamshalom]

Most people bash the rules and the GM who posted them. You actually gave them thoughtful consideration. Good on ya!

[@robinmohamedally7587]

most people are dumb. E.G. Jacob from XP to Level 3

[@mrnixon2287]

#16 Dealt with an unruly player last year in a BECMI mini adventure. They showed up drunk to the 3rd and final session. Id put in a tonne of work. They were a new player to D&D but thats no excuse. They were abusive to me the DM, didn't follow the action, weren't ready when their turn came up and constantly talked to player next to them. I kept a cool head but was understandably mad and addressed her behaviour directly asking her why she was being so childish. She said f-u and the session was on a knife point at that point with her as the centre of attention (her player goal achieved). Removing her was not really an option as she would have gone full hulk-smash mode and destroyed the session for sure. I chose to ignore her and push through and finish the session which was 95% awesome despite her drunken behaviour. The next day I wrote her character out of the story (i guess i could of just killed her character at the table with monsters or a mysterious finger of death spell or deathtrap) but I chose something else. In the epilogue which i posted on the group chat the next day her character was killed in a rockfall trap while leaving the mountains. The death was 100% plausible and caused by a gnome villain they had left alive in the dungeon. Also, drinking and climbing treacherous mountains is a dangerous mix ;) Oh and the remainder of the party, were hailed as heroes on their return to the starting village and were handsomely rewarded for completing their quest.

[@THEFabianValenzuela]

I honestly agree with 75% of what he said, from reading the rules I infer his group is composed of Australian redditors, most of whom are teenagers and MAYBE a cheater or two, because some of these "rules" are just normal things that well adjusted people do WITHOUT being prompted, like not breaking things and not being a junkie. And the original poster decided to share these for people to agree with him online, like a true redditor. The GM just needs a better group.

[@jamesyoung7400]

I believe you nailed it, although as a long time DM (almost 30 years) I will say over the past 10 years the caliber of new players has been on a down hill trend. I wouldn't have been shocked to hear they weren't highschoolers.

[@Bruwulf]

I'll say now what I said at the time: A lot of these rules are fine, in isolation. The problem is, the collective whole, and the attitude behind it, says that this campaign or game or group as a whole is clearly not fun for the GM and the GM is determined to make it not fun for the players, either. "Bad gaming is worse than no gaming" is a phrase that used to get bandied about a lot, and I think it holds true here - ultimately a list of harsh, aggressively-toned rules is not going to save a dysfunctional group, it's just going to leave everyone equally angry and frustrated. If you can't actually work out your problems as mature adults (I'm assuming these people are at least adults, mature is up for debate), just... stop. Agree to go your own ways. Find different groups, different GMs, whatever. Because what they have clearly isn't working, and these rules aren't going to fix it.

[@enishix9635]

This sounds fun lol! Another great video Dungeon Craft!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thank you.

[@Spellweaver5]

The thing about persuasion rolls vs attacks, is that when you attack, there is still a tactical layer of which enemy you attack, where you move, which abilities you use, etc. Playing out your persuasion attempts is an analogue to that: most DMs wouldn't ask you to make a stellar performance, but at least list the arguments that you are going to use to try and persuade someone. Just saying "I roll to persuade" is like saying "I roll to win the battle".

[@dallassukerkin6878]

I only have one rule ... everyone fights, nobody quits! Oh wait no, that's not it :D The actual rule is to play so as to not make any one else's night worse because of your presence. If you can't abide by that rule then, as the game is in my house, you get to leave and not come back. If you persist in your bad behaviour before leaving, you get to pick the window you leave by. Of course, the best way to ensure none of this sort of thing ever happens is to form your gaming group from actual friends. We often used to say, even back in the swirling mists of the 80's, that you can't really play D&D with acquaintances; there is so much give and take and coordinated improvising that you have to play with friends. If you don't, you end up with arguments and a general lack of a good time {points to the 'rules' that are the subject of this video :)}.

[@samflory]

You can play D&D with strangers. You just need good table management. Be willing to shut down toxic players, and kick them out if need be. It's amazing how problem players will often sense your willing to kick them out and shape up or leave. Or just say no that's not allow, and just move on.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Laughed out loud.

[@solouno2280]

Best rule ever

[@gatesofnocturne3700]

@@samflory I think his point is that, strangers will either become friends quickly or be shown the door.

[@robinmohamedally7587]

well, then i'm fucked. Because i have no friends who are interested in D&D, and most of the strangers i've played with in the last year were a problem in one way or another

[@AtriumOneFiddyOne]

4:45 - "Don't pick up cues for 'side quests' that's not my problem" - I think there could be more discussion here. I interpret the "cues for side quests" to more mean something like...a quest that could be helpful for the main quest, but not necessary. For example. Let's say the party is released from talking to the captain of the guard and tasked with dealing with a group of bandits that have made camp in the local hillside. As they rest up for the night, and prepare to tackle the issue in the morning, they overhear the local blacksmith complaining about some supplies that went missing. In the morning they head out, and deal with the bandits. I feel like the "cue for side quests" is the mention of a local blacksmith complaining about supplies. The party doesn't latch onto the idea that the bandits could be the cause, and by securing some of the stolen goods they could get a greater reward. The main quest is still explained, easily understood, but the side quest was lost. Everything else I agree with from what you said. Edit: I lied. There is 1 other thing that I would like to expand on. 1:20 - The whole 1 minute turn thing. I don't actually know how much it matters how large the group is, and here is my logic behind it. Here are the assumptions I am going to use for my example. There are 7 PC's in combat with 4 GM Controlled creatures. Each PC will take the full minute on their turn, and the GM will take 4 minutes to do all the Monsters turns. Perfect efficiency, so even with moving miniatures, rolling to hit, and damage, 1 FULL round of combat is 11 minutes long on the dot. While it seems that you only have 1 minute to declare all your actions, your moves, you rolls, and all that, you have TEN minutes to think about it. In a sense, you have an 11 minute turn, but it is only in the last minute that you can act. I get the sense that this rule was implemented because players would ignore what the other people are doing, until their turn came up.

[@douglasnelson4592]

We had a group that would start shit with the DM on the regular. It burned him out and he never played with that group again.

[@UltraDonny5000]

That happened to me. It felt like I was constantly prepping content for Scoobi and the gang to run away from. When I put them into a forced situation, they cried. So many wasted hours.

[@WanderingHusk]

I'm all for it, more power to this GM I say. It's good to have clear rules on what is expected at someone's game, up front and from the start.

[@2013Arcturus]

For the record 4Chan is the Thunder dome of the internet. By comparison it makes Reddit look like a Chuck E Cheeze

[@solouno2280]

OBJECTION! Atheists channels exist, and they're full of the most obnoxious moronic assholes

[@UltraDonny5000]

True fact

[@burnttoast26]

No, twotter is worse than even the worst boards of 4chan at this point. Also most of 4chan's boards aren't bad, really, it's just a handful of big dumpster fire boards

[@2013Arcturus]

@@burnttoast26 I've never gotten banned on 4Chan, I've gotten suspensions on new Twitter. They are not the same lmao

[@burnttoast26]

@@2013Arcturus Didn't he say twitter first in that statement though? I also never said they were the same? What do bans have to do with the statement?

[@JoshuaHenson-h5g]

I'm not on Reddit or X, but I've watched a few videos on this post and have been enjoying them all. As usual, you're insight and analysis is great. Thanks for weighing in. Keep up the good work and I'll keep watching!

[@Daiqatana]

44 Rules DM did one thing wrong. His players were real awful to him, his only mistake was continuing to play with these people.

[@ultimor1183]

Thanks for outing yourself as a Giant PoS beforehand. Now I know to avoid you 🤗

[@robinmohamedally7587]

@@ultimor1183 lol, was your comment posted under the wrong comment? What you wrote has nothing to do with what he wrote

[@ultimor1183]

@@robinmohamedally7587 Nope, was intentional on my part. The person who made the 44 rules is acting out in a very toxic and enraged manner, which I don’t think is good. Expressing yourself hastily in anger usually never is. But they’re probably a teen or very young adult who is still working through their life and has a lot to learn. Probably just needs a break from GM’ing. Op for this comment has presumable had more years to let his brain grow, yet still put out a take so down in the dumps that I simply had to express my desire to never play with anyone who encourages this kind of behavior in anyone at their table.

[@MrDarthtelos]

You are weak and your children should be raised by real adults.

[@vancomycinb1193]

@@ultimor1183 Lol. You've exposed yourself as a toxic player. Good job. Rule 44's players were *toxic*. Actually, *intentionally toxic* and that triggered these rules. If you think these are extreme in that circumstance I *definitely* would NEVER let you join a game I was running, since you think it'd be amusing the be a jackass and disrespectful.

[@TroyPacelli]

5 - "If you don't act out [your Charisma interaction], you fail before you even roll." Do I have to kick open your front door before I make my Strength roll, too? Maybe steal something from your house before I make my Slight of Hand roll? Maybe you should beat me to the point of unconsciousness and see if I survive before I make my stabilization roll.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Not untrue. But then why speak in character at all? Why not just roll dice to resolve all social interactions?

[@TroyPacelli]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Well, you could say the same for bards - your bard has a high "Perform" skill, but you, the real person, sound like a cat being stuffed into a lunchbox. Here's an alternate thing we often do, especially when roleplaying romantic interactions: Instead of acting it out First Person, we narrate it Third Person. So we might have a situations like, "And my charact says to her ... well, something really sweet, but not corny ... but the focus is more on encouraging her than making time with her..." Then the DM says, "Okay, roll to see if your intent is well received..."

[@NekonataVirino]

Yeah - i mean personally i can sing and i can play a flute so my bardic play might be acceptable under the ‘you have to roleplay every thing out ’ rule - but i can also barely walk these days - does that mean i can’t play a high dex character ever again? Of course not - its roleplay so we get to do and be things we are not in real,life. Making someone else uncomfortable by forcing them to perform in ways they can’t is a horrid thing to do in a supposedly social environment - instead you award bonuses IF and WHEN a player choses to do more than just role dice and use stats. You encourage and reward for those who roleplay beyond their comfort zone not demand and penalise for the actual players natural traits and talents or lack thereof.

[@TroyPacelli]

@@NekonataVirino Bingo

[@mikereinken4928]

Sounds like the DM was making an Intimidation check instead of a Persuasion check. I agree that a DM should lay down their expectations before the game begins AND should enforce those expectations during play for the betterment of all players. However, a spoonful of sugar goes a long way to accomplishing that. WAY TOO MANY F bombs

[@spiralvex2686]

The context I've gleaned elsewhere is that the DM actually called for a hiatus due to being fed up with most of their group and the group cajoled and nagged the DM to come back and these very specific rules were tailored to the prpblems of that group. The player who was the original poster got exposed for their bad behavior and trying to make their DM look bad for internet points and deleted the original post.

[@aaronbono4688]

I will randomly role behind screen as well as in front of players because sometimes I want to fudge the dice or I already rolled certain things like initiative before the game so that I could speed things up and I don't want the players fixating on that. I want the players to get the impression that I'm rolling constantly every time and that nothing has been predetermined even though it really doesn't matter, it'll still feel artificial to them. As an example in our next gaming session I'm going to have a group of NPCs battling each other nearby and I pre-rolled that whole battle sequence so that I could just rattle it off as we play, I don't want to be rolling that stuff and trying to figure it out during a battle. If the players do something that slightly intervene with that preordained battle sequence I might speed up or slow down the progression but it's mostly predetermined.