Dungeons and Dragons Lore : Chain Devil

[@Arachobia]

A few people in comments have mentioned this, but I think Kytons might be inspired by Cenobites and not the other way round. As far as I can tell, they first appeared in Planescape in 1994, which is a good 8 years after The Hellbound Heart which inspired the Hellraiser series. Although of course if anyone can find proof that they are older than that, go for it. Either way, the cenobites are a good thing to draw inspiration from

[@DracosDiabolis]

so chain devils can gain control of chains within 60 ft. or so. .... makes ya think twice about that gold necklace around your neck. lol

[@l0ker507]

_Animate Chains (Recharges after a Short or Long Rest)._ Up to four chains the devil can see within 60 feet of it magically sprout razor-edged barbs and animate under the devil's control, provided that the chains *aren't being worn or carried*

[@jamesgorman5692]

@@l0ker507 what about chainmail?

[@l0ker507]

@JamesGorman I think the answer is in the ink Of the book

[@jamesgorman5692]

@@l0ker507 sorry it's in your description, for some reason I didn't spot it.

[@andrewmorgan2537]

So if you encounter one in a Home Depot run away after you trip the bard.

[@draxthemsklonst]

So spawn, pinhead and ghost Rider are kinda like chain devils?

[@AJPickett]

yes.

[@draxthemsklonst]

AJ Pickett Question: apologies for staying on comic archetypes vs d&d, but what sort of tiefling/devil/demon/warlock or whatever would spawn be...if made d&d flavor/twist on him. He summons 'mephits/imps', basically, and has extremely buffed power at night/in shadow/darkness to warp subtle reality at times, slightly.

[@AJPickett]

He is an artificial being composed of ectoplasm infused with fiendish essence, thus he kind of gets powered up when he fights for his fiendish masters, draws power directly from the infernal environment (so he is much more powerful in the lower planes), he has the ability of a Kyton (chain devil) to control chains and has a semi-sentient cloak (probably an actual demon that has been warped into the form of a cloak), the soul inhabiting this construct body is technically a Warlock with an infernal pact of the Chain (D&D 5th edition rules).As a character, he has a background as an soldier (technically)

[@That80sGuy1972]

Jacob Marley comes to mind too... makes sense that he gets ghosted with chains for eternity considering his greed.

[@JonGee420]

Pinhead and ghost rider predate the chain devil.....I think.

[@victorvaldez8869]

Your comparison of Chain Devils to Cenobites reminds me of another revelation I've had. Both Jason Voorheese & Eric Draven are Revenants. In the case of Eric Draven from The Crow it hammers home how thin the line between Revenge & Justice can be.

[@AJPickett]

Yeah, that fits!

[@Infernalhypernova]

Is there really a difference between vengeance and justice?

[@victorvaldez8869]

There is arguably a fine line caused by the preservation of the Greater Good in order to make sure that the act isn't repeated, but that is a philosophical argument that one could explore with your players. If you wanted to explore some more adult philosophical themes this could be one of them. Certainly a Reverent who goes after all child molesters not just the ones who killed it to cover up their crime would be one who the characters might actually want to help, but one going after the heirs who got rich off the wrongful accusation that got them executed is more of a grey area. Maybe the Reverent has a just cause that he is avenging, maybe he's targeting the wrong people or those who have committed the wrong are already dead or out of reach. Is it still justice if you are going after the heirs who got rich off the wrongs of the past? That's an argument with Real World applications too. In the Wraith: The Oblivion supplement "Charnel Houses of Europe: The Shoah" a Ghost takes revenge on the Granddaughter of one of the Guards in the camp where they and their family were killed, she never knew what her ancestors did in the War & manning a Concentration Camp was certainly never brought up during the holidays, so that arguably falls more on the side of not being justice. On the other hand an if we agree an Eye For An Eye is fair, why not a Loved One For A Loved One? Role Playing Games can be great for exploring moral & philosophical issues in simulated environments.

[@chakatBombshell]

Different levels of justification really. Justice by its name implies it has righteousness behind it, that what happens to the perpetrator was brought on to themselves and reasonable minds can say "yes said punishment is deserved." Vengeance can have justice to it but can go on a much wider range of unreasonable behaviour. Revenge could be anywhere from turning a rapist who raped your friend into the cops (which is justice), to burning there house down with there family inside, kicking there dog to death then killing them.

[@Infernalhypernova]

+chakatBombshell But every mind is different, which is why I say that.

[@trentonmaloney3280]

oh, we have such dark delights to show you.but its not the box that calls us, its desire.

[@bluecollarcanuck]

"Leather-clad torture puppies". :D

[@MaxGideonActor]

...but trick us again, girl, and your suffering will be legendary -- even in Hell. 😋😈☠

[@krispalermo8133]

I started with AD&D2e as a teenager back in the 1990's then switch over to 3.0e in the early 2000's. Love the new rules on everything. Best part was I no longer had to deal with AD&D xp level gain and having to figure out all of the stories encounters it took for a wizard to reach 14th-level In 3.0e you could cast Lesser Planar Binding as a 8th-level wizard. The new rule for magic item creation was Way better than AD&D. "Sad thing was, no one in my playing group ask why my wizard character took up craft: toymaker. Until it was too late."

[@JayLeePoe]

I'm just now digging into D&D lore but it surprises me that you would not be familiar with Clive Barker as an author. I know that I was an odd kid but Barker's depictions of Hell's scenery, it was like a sweltering grimy neighborhood of despair, stalked by festering hellhounds both ravenous and mad. The Books of Blood are what anchors The Hellbound Heart. In fact... as you, yourself, described his courtly parties it did seem like I was reading The Thief of Always-- an indulgent Lord who captures a fascinated young toy, etc. He does a great job with atmosphere by building it into the mood, tone, and really just saturating it into everything like an ever-growing stain

[@viciouskoala2163]

Nobody in the history of Torture has ever been Tortured with Torture, like the Tortures you'll be Tortured with!!!!!

[@michalchik]

Makes me think that we now need some sort of metaphysical definition of what is and what is not a chain. Is a pearl necklace a chain? Is a chain letter a chain? Is a chain a chain... do we have to worry about nuclear powered Kytons?

[@ronschindler3891]

Well if we didn't before, we do NOW.

[@KS-PNW]

Anyone else picturing the scene from the Boondocks?

[@findantu]

Dna

[@DatGitGhaz]

I fought one of these in the first campaign I was ever part of. I was stood on the roof of a building casting various spells at it and it leveled the building. Damn near killed me

[@TabooX1984]

Thumbnail looked like Spawn so I had to watch. 😄 👍👍👍

[@smoothearllemon4176]

Thanks for bringing us all the lore behind these creatures!

[@danielneilson5023]

Honestly it makes me think of Spawn or Ghost Rider before the Cenobites but I certainly see that one *chuckles in nerd*

[@NoLoveSouth1st]

Been listening to your videos for a while, and I gotta say I love the personality you let through in all your videos (especially this one) 😂

[@Sugar-Foot]

The Scarlet Gospels read very much like a D&D game that went off rails and the over powered NPC bad guys had the final battle among themselves

[@mmeers89]

As soon as you said Chain Devil I immediately thought, Cenobite.

[@willynthepoorboys2]

This was my favorite "Monster Ecology" I have watched yet .I love them all and find them all to be very enlightening but this one is pure gold in my book...I love the Hell Raiser series of movies too.

[@AJPickett]

Thank you :) Yeah, I recently watched the original Hellraiser and wow.. those hair styles.. but the horror of the film is timeless.

[@strangerinwhite]

AJ Pickett Have you read the books? The Hellbound Heart and The Scarlet Gospel both by Clive Barker.

[@AJPickett]

I have read 'Imajica' and it is a really excellent book! I can see why Clive Barker loves it so much, it deserves a movie of it's own.

[@strangerinwhite]

AJ Pickett I like his books and films. So I like these kind of campaign for D&D.

[@KazeTheCursedOne]

These have been one of my favorite dnd monsters since I first saw them, there's a lot of versatility in their abilities.

[@steventausch8078]

Should of talked about Glasya. His old Consort since she is the Daughter of Asmodeus and important in the next few planes.

[@AJPickett]

+Steven Tausch Yeah, I'll talk more of her when I get to the Sixth plane of Hell.

[@steventausch8078]

+AJ Pickett (The Mighty Gluestick) She is best friend with Lady Fierna and her mentor. Why she usurped her father/husband. Gross! And, she hates Lord Levistus for killing her mother.

[@steventausch8078]

+Steven Tausch Also, why do the succubi all seem to be capable of love to some degree?

[@richardanthonyxx124]

Dude I'm gonna commit to dungeons and dragons lore. 🤙🏼🤙🏼

[@KyleJordanGaming]

[Dark Eldar entered chat.]

[@rayruckus4446]

Last campaign I played My P.C. was a Fey-ri. Basically an eleven version of a Cambian. My D.M. made me choose the elf and devil species so I picked Shadar-ki and chain devil. After he said hell no I was able to convince him to let me start off as a weaker devils species and eventually my characters devil side would evolve into a chain devil.it was acts quite fun.every few levels I'd have to decide wether or not to allow myself to evolve. He had me role Percentage dice to see how much of the current devil type power I got. Then it would grow along with my base lvl. It was a very fun system.

[@valarkov6455]

Always wanted to use Kyton's chain from gallery in Planescape torment.. That would be.. BRUTAL 🤤

[@kannathraymaker]

The Hellbound Heart was published in 1986. The Kyton was introduced when? Maybe 2e? The first movie was 1988. Clive Barker did play AD&D, but I think this was a designer get inspiration was from him not the other way around. I agree with you all the way, though. They are very much like Cenobites!

[@rastamike14]

I love your videos man keep up the great work :)

[@ciaareinthecommentssection9575]

I feel like I've been there, looking up from the swamp. You stay in the swamp alone in permanent solitude or you climb up to the tormentors just for company. Anyone else get this feeling?

[@DatcleanMochaJo]

I love the video but I was hoping you talk more about the chain devil as a good portion of the video was reading its stats and talking about Minauros. But great vid AJ

[@blackbarnz]

Do the bodies of Kyton victims become or get made into anything? I'm looking for some sorta Kyton victim template for 3.5/PF. I could just use flesh or chain golems perhaps an undead but I was wondering if there was something specific associated with Kyton victims?

[@justinross4109]

They're not quite cenobites, as the cenobites are more involved with being lost and addicted to sensation, making them more synonymous with the pleasure devils, although the chains do feel close, maybe cenobite is more a title given to certain fiends than an actual type of fiend

[@AJPickett]

Agreed

[@shanekelley9042]

I hadn't saw this...but I am running a chain devil as a cenobite so its fitting

[@destonlee2838]

We built a castle but it sank into the swamp so we built another one and it fell over then sank into the swamp. So we built a third and it caught on fire, burned and fell into the swamp, so we raised taxes, and built another castle.

[@chrisg3987]

I really enjoy all the background lore. Great vids! Could you do one on the yuan ti?

[@AJPickett]

+Chris G Yessssssss... added to the lisssssst.

[@chrisg3987]

Haha. You are awesome! Thanks for doing these vids.

[@Logbear89547]

Keep it up love the videos.

[@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar]

You think the chain devil getting a short or long rest is weird, see the corpse collector’s summon Spector. I thought constructs couldn’t rest? How could they possibly restore hitpoints by any means other then repair?

[@tree_alone]

everybody talking about cenobites... i'm thinking Spawn .

[@AJPickett]

Any indie Comic that got a movie back then was a massive win

[@tree_alone]

@@AJPickett Malboljia was corny lookin but i love that movie. i also love the hellraiser movies... and past the 2nd one they are all the CORNIEST. except the scifi tv movie with the detective, that was genuinely pretty good.

[@KS-PNW]

Pardon my ignorance but what's a "kissing maiden trap," ? I've never heard of those ..

[@AJPickett]

It is a pillar of stone that springs up from the floor "When a square is entered, a section of floor slides aside and a stone post levers up to hit the creature in the square, pushing it back. The stone post then swings back down to reset the trap as long as the square is empty."

[@KS-PNW]

Thanks AJ!

[@Claycanplay]

TMG is the Brain Devil. My appreciation of his arcane brain effects, drives me to comment and I even let the intermittent ADs play out, in tribute to his great and terrible brain powers.

[@MaxGideonActor]

When were the first introduction of Chain devils or similar, as in what year? Interested in timeline compared with The Hellbound Heart publication. 😎

[@mirkopolyak3592]

Max Gideon Chain devils / keytons appear in 2e D&D which came out in 1989.

[@Inquisitor_Lelouch]

kinda reminds me of Slaanesh.

[@nicholasjonas452]

What the bondage?

[@calebhelton725]

DO I SMELL HERECY!!!!

[@kalebb1226]

The quiet offends slaanesh

[@DBArtsCreators]

Enemies get a chance to rest when the party takes a rest. It'd be an interesting mechanic if there was more incentive for parties to take short rests.

[@-kenik9629]

"Provided the chains aren't worn, or carried." Sounds like the effect moves through the ethereal realm to me.

[@krispalermo8133]

Nah , have the PC make a Will save vs spell Animate Rope/ Chain or take gripping damage. Even seen a chain latch that they use to put on doors to keep them from being open all the way ? Fuse the chain in the latch by spiking it. Then have the PC make a few Str checks to rip the door open. What ever it takes to build terror in the game.

[@mielliot13]

Devils are very tactical and could easily be involved with hit and run/terror tactics using the chain ability. Teleport in, shred a large amount of people and teleport out before they can mount a response, etc

[@Xkhaosxzeus]

That city sounds like an ancient city in Game of Thrones on the continent of Sothoryos said to be made of black stone surrounded by a jungle called the Green Hell

[@chadevinellers5384]

I have a customer of mammon in my homebrew whos devout followers become aswang. That's a creature worth a video.

[@pa1nted]

what is the giant thing at 2:00

[@That80sGuy1972]

Dang. AJ Pickett, I have an artifact in my AD&D worlds that is (as far as artifact weapons go) mid-tier that many of my PC's shun. It would be an awesome offensive-defensive weapon of good against these devils. It's a weapon a based on the Castlevania games, the Belmont morningstar called Vindicator (my version has that name). It would be the only trump card against these monsters' chain usage. It destroys all chain and rope animation magics done by non-good beings in a 60' radius just by being held among other things. Next drunken get together of my veterans, we are playing a Chain Devil encounter and the weakest combatant/ greatest healer will now be a great asset and he is a devout servant of a good god. I'm old, we only break out AD&D when we do our once a year reunions.

[@sweetnamegamingchannel838]

Csn u start doing lore on different guilds abd organizations in DnD maybe some clasd reviews for sub classes

[@Weirdoid]

Odd question. Do the devil types keep their type names in 5th edition. (I have yet to get a monster manual for it). I keep hearing bone devil, chain devil, bearded devil, etc in products and it drives me nuts hearing such simplistic terms. (“What kind of devil is that?”:”the bony one, that is a bone devil”) a lot of creatures have that such as color coded dragons but with devils it is worse as it feels like a back slide. Do names such as osyluth, kyton, barbazu, abashai, gelugon, cornugon, etc. still exist in D&D?

[@AJPickett]

Hmmm, well, I keep calling them one or the other, I prefer saying Gelugon to saying Ice Devil, for example.

[@bobadams8818]

Excellent overview

[@ashholenyc1312]

4:30 "because he is the patron of greed, and lust, and doing anything to get head" i loled

[@EdMcStinko]

How come their leader isn't Pinhead?

[@tonlito22]

So, what if you've got a Chaindevil being backed up by Cultists and a couple allies. An evil Evoker/Pyromancer and a group of Hobgoblin Spelleaters. So the Spell eaters would engage after the Cultist wave, attacking anyone who broke through (Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Monk). If two are able to take on one guy, one will make trip attacks while the other goes for a grapple, then chains his weapon to a brick or meat hook or something. Since his spiked chain is no longer being held it is able to be used as a Dancing Chain. Have the Evoker dump a fFireball or Burning Hands on the Spelleaters with any heroes in the blast zone to top off after they start looking too weary.

[@brandonsmith5743]

I love all ur videos

[@1204trip]

I recommend reading the hellhound heart & the scarlet gospel if you want a better understanding of Clive Barker's mind you might find far more parallels than you initially realized

[@MySerpentine]

What's with the random picture of Obox-Ob?

[@AJPickett]

Old video, some vermin snuck in there.

[@delenaa9312]

Nupperibos Devils/Orthon Devils.

[@Aquamentus11]

Great use of "noisome". Question: if silver and radiant energy are devils' "weaknesses", what are the equivalent weaknesses of celestials?

[@owenwalsh1471]

How do you spell Minuros? I'm trying to research it for my own campaign!

[@AJPickett]

Minauros (wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Minauros good resource for encounter planning)

[@lordmoldybutt6361]

Are you gonna remaster these videos with better sound quality?

[@AJPickett]

Probably, it's not super high priority at this moment, but yeah, probably. I still have an endless amount of stuff to cover.

[@lordmoldybutt6361]

I meant no offense by this statement. & i apologize if it seemd offensive. I appreciate that you make time to respond to me.

[@AJPickett]

@@lordmoldybutt6361 I'm not offended, it's a fair and honest point, the reality is, I improve over time and most of my older content is not to the same standard, it's a fact. There is no point getting offended at facts :)

[@Shakkarz]

It's got to be hellraiser you dealing with primordials too but in theory I thought it was animation a city held up by large chains and a dragon overrules the city (token)

[@lucasthompson4171]

No tears, it's a waste of good suffering.

[@lucasthompson4171]

1 of my favorite movie franchises.

[@crankypest2617]

Chain Devils predate The Hellbound Heart? That is the novella that Hellraiser came from written in 1986. Also written Clive Barker. It has been a long time but I do not remember then in 1st ed or 2nd ed? But I do admit is has been a really long time since I have been in D&D..

[@GreenLanternCorps2814]

This was a cool one. Be careful with your visuals, you could very easily get in trouble for copyright infringement.

[@archam777]

Loviatar vacations in the City of Chains

[@1204trip]

With the hellhound heart being released in 1986 and AD&D releasing in 1989 I believe it would be fair just say the Clive Barker helped inspire the chain devil if his hell priests were not the outright inspiration since Kytons had their first appearance during 2nd edition to the best of my research

[@krispalermo8133]

Chain devils are old folk lore spirits that hung the dam with hooks and rope from tree branches. Some bandits in the world's tropics still do that. Clive Baker put a sexual twist to the act.

[@1204trip]

@@krispalermo8133 if you could sight some sources id love to read up on it if you could

[@krispalermo8133]

@Robert Righter , I am sorry for my lack of sources. The only passing one I remember that a Middle Eastern Death goddess / demon hung the dead on chain meat hooks around her throne. Back in the early 1990's as a teenager I had access to a book collection from the 1950's that had some grim stuff in them. "Like the East Indian Trade Company ran out off old srunken head war torpies so they had homeless people get their faces tattoo, and well guest what happen next." Do to the internet, with all of the rumors , take everything with a grain of salt. Also I just check on the name: Kyton In a way it is the male form of Ruth, from the bible. Compassionate.

[@gustaafargoan]

AD&D didn't release in 1989. I played it in high school. I got out of the Navy in 1989.

[@lydiaives733]

Where do I sign up?

[@victorvaldez8869]

Do Chain Devils predate Clive Barker's 1986 book The Hellbound Heart, upon which the Hellraiser films series is based?

[@AJPickett]

Victor Valdez yes, its just coincidentally analogous themes.

[@JonGee420]

I thought that was from the late 70s

[@delenaa9312]

Talk about Bael & Geryon & Hutijin

[@thehungrylittlenihilist]

What's the source for the image at 11:20

[@AJPickett]

Hmmm, I don't know.

[@vishnar2515]

when the player plays as one, or a hybrid of one. that's when the rest stuff will apply. also, I think I will use a chaindevil as a quest giver.... got an idea.

[@snakeeater9813]

I'm a simple man, I see spawn, I click

[@kevinbarber2795]

2:40 hey now, that’s from MTG! :D not that I mind

[@God8010]

IT'S SPAWN!! XD I know. Hellraiser.. I want it to be Spawn though. :D

[@thunderheadedanno3434]

What came first tho spawn or chain devils?

[@dustinchambers4172]

The thumb nail screams spawn.

[@AJPickett]

It is spawn.

[@Claycanplay]

Could a chain devil torture a captured demon, into a pliable servant/slave? Is there any precedent for Devils successfully subjugating a Demon through punishment, and if so, how powerful of a demon would be susceptible it?

[@AJPickett]

Yes. There is no general rule, if you need it to happen, either decide as the DM or try it and hope the DM goes with it.

[@delenaa9312]

Can you talk about Dragon Devils called the black abishai/blue abishai/ green abishai /red abishai /white abishai

[@AJPickett]

I have done in another video. Check out the vid on Tiamat.

[@remigusker6024]

I don't agree that the Cenobites are akin to chain devils, at least so long as you ignore the Hellraiser sequels (which you should, they're universally shit and completely ignore the original characterization of the Cenobites). The Cenobites are about exploring sensation to its absolute limits and beyond. They're sense freaks, not merely torturers.

[@zmishiymishi5349]

Don't let them near Tharizdun!

[@Weirdoid]

How do their role differ from that of the cochrachon?

[@AJPickett]

Not sure what they are sorry.

[@Weirdoid]

@@AJPickett maybe I misspelled them, the bug like torturers of baator

[@delenaa9312]

Amnizu Devils /hellfire Engine/ merregon Devils/ Narzugon Devils.

[@FrostWolfPack]

I all ready intendet to juse chain devil like that in next game but this just aded some fuel to inspire it more.

[@docop8926]

I didn't know scorpion was a chain devil lol....17:03

[@TyeFuchs]

What is the "kissing maiden" trap you mention?

[@AJPickett]

+Tye Fuchs Good question! Check out www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Traps_and_Hazards_(4e_Index) The Kissing Maiden is a sneaky, concealed, self resetting pressure activated trap, When it's square is entered, a section of floor instantly slides aside and a stone post levers up to smash into the creature in the square, throwing the victim up (possibly crushing them into the ceiling and pushing it back a few squares). The stone post then swings back down to reset the trap as long as the square is empty. The post can also be festooned with ripping spikes, coated in poison, or be accompanied with a gout of flame, spray of acid or make a thunderous boom when they strike the roof (as an alarm).

[@MARSHOMEWORLD]

Malebolgia approves.

[@dragonpjb]

Cenobites think they are doing you a favor.

[@matthhiasbrownanonionchopp3471]

You got me in chains you got me in chains for your love

[@davidfletcher6703]

If the Chain Devils are the Cinabits, what would Spawn be?

[@AJPickett]

Dire Cinabit

[@alexbreeze4978]

If Kytons aren't Baatezu can they be promoted to erinyes, Gelugons etc and then up to pit fiends? I saw a source where Asmodeus made a human a kyton so I am assuming he could do it?

[@AJPickett]

Yes.

[@kevinchristiansen4348]

I love chain devils, whip ya, hook ya and drag you down to hell lol

[@InvinciblKillerQueen]

Chain devils may be Cenobites, but Mamon is Capitalism.

[@krispalermo8133]

Which of the two are more evil ?

[@JeremySmith-ve2ur]

I'ma take a guess and say hell raiser. Im only a minute in and I haven't read any comments so I'm not cheating.

[@TheLordUrban]

So chain devils come from Catachan. Who knew?

[@EonEsper-Kriz]

We have such sights to show you, lol. 🤭

[@Shakkarz]

Memmom he's the son of the devil.

[@trajanfidelis]

We have such sites to show you

[@Iceblade269]

Anyone else find it funny that a promoted Eurinyes has a CR lower than it? (8

[@DarkFire0421]

I think you mean Florida not the 3rd level of hell

[@Shakkarz]

hell razor spawn or Ghost Rider

[@thefarlen]

so mamon is dnd slanesh

[@josephleece682]

So powerful