The D&D AI Scandal Just Got Worse

[@Karlmakesstuff]

I don't wanna tell WoTC how to do their job, but if they're so keen on AI they should give it a spin in their management level.

[@dungeonsanddiscourse]

it's always writers, artists, service workers who are on the chopping block. I feel like we could save tons more money by automating CEOs :D

[@DungeonsNDreadnoughts]

​@@dungeonsanddiscourselow hanging fruit as well lol

[@Karlmakesstuff]

​@@dungeonsanddiscourseyep... In some industries one could call it ruthless cost cutting, but here it seems to be nothing more than absolute ignorance of the value of their own product. Regarding the DM crisis, do you reckon it was intentionally induced or completely fabricated to lay the groundwork for this kind of thing?

[@drakeion5819]

If they are using ai then that are not doing their job plain and simple.

[@Karlmakesstuff]

@@drakeion5819 it's a bit more complex than that I think - and to be clear, I find the idea of AI art and content 'creation' extremely dodgy. If someone had contracted an artist to do art, and they delegated the job to AI, they're not doing their job. If someone contracted someone known to use AI art to make some at the best rate possible, the problem is the hirer and the process that led to that decision.

[@paulwarner7508]

As a MTG player who has watched Wizards/Hasbro destroy my love for my cardboard squares my heart is with all D&D players

[@Nerobyrne]

But DnD isn't reliant on WotC making products. Because the worlds and characters we create ourselves ARE the "product", and all Wizards does is supply the rules. Unlike MtG where they actually produce all the cards that we play with.

[@marianpetera8436]

Mhm, wonder why DnD has a DM crisis, when the books, the DMG in particular, offer next to 0 useful advice on... ummm... running the game? Making a compelling campaign? Balancing encounters? Handing out appropriate rewards to players? Heck, their 79 USD adventure / campaign book tells aspiring DMs: "here are ideas, you fill in the blanks".

[@dungeonsanddiscourse]

100% agree.

[@freelancerthe2561]

Not to knock adventure path writers..... but there's a zeebashew quote that always pops into my head in this conversation. "Because this game; was designed by a failed novelist, who has tricked you into reading his micro fiction."

[@Malvisk]

Descent into Avernus is an example of exactly how not to run a campaign. :)

[@Smrt927]

​@@MalviskI'm using the Alexandrian remix for it. Been very helpful turning it into a sandbox

[@AldanDK]

and now imagine a *HEAVILY PATTERN AND RULES DRIVEN* robot trying to make sense of the mess that is running a 5E game. could you specifically train it to work on specific adventures? maybe. could you train it to work better than a properly designed videogame? not a chance

[@Qedhup]

Hey in their defence they're just a tiny little company that earns only pocket change. No way they can afford to keep paying what their employee manual refers to as "meat puppets", right? Ai is just the logical choice. Everyone complains about the quality of WotC books these days anyways, so who is going to notice substandard quality from Ai! /s

[@dungeonsanddiscourse]

i feel like it's very reasonable that they cut art, writers and content, and also raise prices. how else can they afford so many executives??

[@hunterg24]

@@dungeonsanddiscourse their tenth yacht made from gold ain't going buy itself.

[@greatestcait]

Maybe if they had made DM tools that were worth a dam, there wouldn't be such a severe DM shortage. But no, instead of doing that, they just make ridiculous amounts of player facing content with boatloads of power creep, making it harder and harder to run a game.

[@Rubymagicalgirl88]

Yup, I love a lot of their earlier content, but a proper DM book would have been awesome, especially for high-level play

[@freelancerthe2561]

@@Rubymagicalgirl88 I still subscribe the belief that high level DnD is so broken, you can't make anything without having to utterly hamstring the players in the process. After a point characters are just so powerful, they have skills that can just bypass encounters and puzzles. You'd have to start tailoring to a party's specific weaknesses, or make it completely RP driven... which would just be cutting out most of the mechanics. I think PF2 tried to flatten the power curve; but when you're rolling at +15 or higher on DCs, you'd either have to set the numbers arbitrarily high, or invent any penalty you can think of.

[@TehNSane1]

But making rules takes too much work for an itty bitty company like Hasbro! They only made $3,900,000,000 in profits last year, they can't afford things like "editors" and "consultants" and "game designers" you're asking way too much!

[@paulgibbon5991]

@@freelancerthe2561 The problem with D&D is that it has a power curve unlike almost any other game. There are games where you START as being super powerful, and that's fine, because the system is designed to handle that level, and the settings are generally able to accommodate characters of that power level without flying apart. D&D is like a superhero RPG where you start off as Daredevil, then become Spiderman and then become Thor.

[@deathmetalbard]

Maybe reduce the levels by half and then clean out the glut of spells and feats and powers that are just filler in general.

[@jessemills7624]

A bit of good news on this subject since this video was released: Federal courts have ruled that AI art can't be copyrighted, and that the human element is vital to the copyright process, setting a great precedent for other AI created content. This essentially takes away wizards ability to monetize AI content.

[@darkovdarkov1417]

But if a human makes an image and enhances it with AI? Ive heard of this ruling, but I have many questions about it. Ive spend days trying to create some custom AI art, just for myself, but I spend days working with the AI tool, wont this be a human element? Or if someone makes some parts of the art and finishes it with an AI tool, wont that be a human element? And in a broader sense, a human created the AI itself, isnt that a human element? The AI is just a type of brush(in the art context), a tool to be used.

[@evilsohn]

Remember when during 3.5 WotC would release every piece of art from their books on release day on their webpage? Such a great visualization tool for GMs - especially with Monster Manuals and Adventure Module Maps.

[@jerkchickenblog]

not really. that's a rather limited understanding of what can be considered 'content' especially as it applies to ai

[@Spectrue]

Lets also not forget that Hasbro contracted with the Catholic Church to use slave labor to pit together board games. This was atill going on as recently as 2011.

[@malcire]

Contracted with Rehab from my understanding who actually set up the labor side with the church.

[@HolyknightVader999]

The nuns from Ireland? Why am I not surprised?

[@Spectrue]

@@malcire they didn't know about the slave labor for over 30 years? Come on...

[@Spectrue]

@@HolyknightVader999 yup, the Magdalene laundries

[@HolyknightVader999]

@@Spectrue As a devout Catholic, those nuns offend me. I know some nuns who are the best people in the world. The nuns from that controversy disgust me to my core.

[@timjohnson2533]

Imagine if, instead of AI DM's to solve the problem, they came out with products and rules to.. help DM's. Y'know, instead of just saying "Just make it up!" then giggling, throwing their arms in the air while running into another room while screaming "Whimsey! Look at the whimsey!"

[@rodh1404]

To be fair, that approach worked very well in the AD&D era.

[@elLooto]

"Just make it up" is exactly how RPG's used to be done. When you do that, however, you outgrow the one trick pony of D&D very quickly, and have to move on to something else. We used to have someone in the group say "Ive got an idea" every few weeks and as a result we got dozens of great games out of it, ranging across the whole spectrum of fantasy, sci fi, realistic, dystopic, et al; one of the most fun games we had was in GURPS where we had to create broken, rule abusing, builds, on standard point totals: when a psi character with the power to extinguish all life on earth says "I'll read his mind" and you look across the table and say "I'll let him" in all seriousness, it creates moments that no-one present will ever forget. We never had a "whos going to GM" problem. We just werent lazy cornts demanding to have ideas given to us, because we "just made it up."

[@mishratheforsaken]

...So what would that actually look like? I'm honestly curious. What could the company give DM's, in the form of products/rules/etc... Do you want more content? Rules to be clearer? Rules to be more set in stone? What "fixes" the current problem? And for bonus points, what fixes the problem while still giving the company a way to make money off the product. Because i know I wouldn't be super happy about making a product that only 20% of people actually bother to pay to use.

[@timjohnson2533]

Digital tools. Actual tools for dungeon masters. The time of 'books' that people buy is starting to slip by the wayside as more and more digital means of distribution become available. While I know that WoTC are vehemently against releasing actual books as readable PDF's like nearly every single other game company out there, they do have a digital platform that could be used to cut their costs to nearly nothing. A D&D beyond sub is equal across DM's and Players. They don't care if only 20% of an app on the platform is used. It costs them nothing but maintenance to keep it up to date and quash any bugs that arise. If a player shrugs and says "I have no use for DM apps' it just.. doesn't matter, because they paid their sub fee, equal to anyone else that does. As for what I would offer? Well, I have to go by the fact that I wouldn't cripple myself by remaining 100% backwards compatible with the 2015 rules. Some of the things I'd like to see would require a fundamental restructuring of the game so I'll stick with what they could offer if they put the effort in without massive re-writes of the system. First would be a monster/npc creator based on the digital books you own. Using the actual fixed CR 'system' that they have stated they use internally. A way to quickly create a challenging enemy or custom monster based on math that they supposedly use for the low cost of a monthly sub to D&D Beyond's walled garden. I'd offer DM's solid rules on crafting and down-time activities. Actual costs of material and time for creating magical items, or even common items. Something to drain the utterly nonsensical amount of money that groups end up with. I would offer this along with an 'app' on the platform that allows you to not only make custom items but have them on a rollable table of magic items compiled from the books you already own on the platform. Want items only from Strixhaven? (the.. five that they offered), you can filter it, want only DMG items, filter it. I'd offer at least generalized solid rules on settlements. Population densities, sizes and even value of what an individual shop would offer. Want to run an inn with your party? There's rules and costs for that. Want to buy a house to use as an HQ? Rules for that. Want to start a Thieves Guild? Yup, there's rules for that too. 3rd edition did this brilliantly, and I found that Pathfinder took that idea and distilled it into a more usable format. Even third party products offer all sorts of rules for this if you know where to look. I realize this would mean they would need to come up with a coherent system of valuing magic items and drop the falsehood that 'not putting a price on them makes them feel more powerful'. I also realize that is a pretty massive undertaking and would also mean they'd have to fix the economy of the game. As we don't know much about the upcoming DMG I fully concede that they could actually be doing just that, I'm basing all of this on the fact we haven't seen the playtest for the DMG yet. Lastly, I'd put nearly everything I listed above in a useful, compiled book. The DMG. It's supposed to be a tome of help for the DM, and each of these things could be optional. If you don't want to use the 'magic item costs' then you don't have to. If you want to wing it with monster creation, cool! Hate the idea of book-keeping with settlements and downtime crafting, no problem. But have the options there for those people who do. I don't need lore on who Bigby is. That's a D&D Beyond article. I want rules in my rulebooks. But I'm a crunch-weirdo. I note that I don't play D&D anymore, nor do I plan to again. I'm one of those weirdos who's moved on to indie games, as well as other larger systems. But it doesn't mean I want to see D&D fail. Quite the opposite :) My list above are essentially the rules based things that made me leave the game long before all the circus antics they started pulling as a company. If I had books like MCDM's Flee Mortals before I walked away from the game in frustration, I probably either would have kept with it or at least stuck around longer. (Seriously, Flee Mortals is a master-class on how to do a monster book, I highly recommend it.) @@mishratheforsaken

[@timjohnson2533]

Weirdly, I find AD&D games (1e, mainly) to have an absurd amount of rules. Almost too many. Rules on certain weapons against certain armor, tables and charts on spacing for swinging weapons, psionics rules that were just all over the place, treasure tables down to the last copper, variant THAC0 tables, thief ability tables, xp calculations based on money and hp's of monsters, etc. The only difference was that a lot of that was just handwaved and/or unusable. I can't imagine having to look up a glaive vs. chainmail vs. leather every battle, or worrying that a 7' corridor wouldn't allow for long swinging weapons, but it was a system based off of a wargame. More simulationist than roleplay, even if the simulations were greatly abstracted. I'll still say, even years later, and even with it's tiny font-size, the DMG for 1e was one book I'd constantly read through. Even with how esoteric and at times 'mathy' it was. @@rodh1404

[@christraven]

WotC: "We made 5th Edition too hard for GM's to run." Anyone with a brain: "That sounds like a You problem, fam." The Enshittification continues.

[@zebaklongfang9344]

"dm crisis"... 5e is complicated.... ^.^ *laughs in 3.0*

[@sauce1101]

@@zebaklongfang9344 it's not that it's complicated. it just tends to consider "ask your GM" or "make something up as you go along" to be valid ideas for subsystems.

[@poisonerknight]

Maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't have moved from hard rules in 3.x and 4th to the "What do you think should happen" system for 5. As an old hat I found it infuriating and just told my players any time you got a +2 if it was 3.5 you got advantage.

[@vxicepickxv]

Wait, that's supposed to be hard? *laughs in Mage the Ascension Storyteller*

[@simonyork3562]

​@@vxicepickxvhaha. True

[@cryptokev1759]

Is anyone really surprised right now with Wotc/Hasbro doing this? They are literally a Blade Runner megacorp!

[@kevinh.9939]

The vast majority of corporations are.

[@cryptokev1759]

@@kevinh.9939 We are there already!

[@JD-xz1mx]

@@kevinh.9939 lol what? The vast majority of corporations are tiny, thousands of them are nonprofit charities You don't actually know what a corporation is do you?

[@kevinh.9939]

@@JD-xz1mx Wow, I think you're the only person who couldn't figure out what I was talking about. 🤣

[@nahumgardner]

This breaks my heart. I've been playing Dungeons & Dragons since I was ten and I assumed it would always be around in some form where I could go buy books and play it. They're killing that. They're killing the game.

[@CJx37]

A perfect opportunity to expand your love for D&D to a love of tabletop gaming in general. Show WotC how you feel by checking out a new game instead of investing further into a sinking ship

[@nahumgardner]

I agree. In addition to D&D I play a variety of games, I've been running a Pathfinder game at my local game shop since September 2021. I just got into old school essentials. It just makes me sad that the thing that got me into the hobby is going to be destroyed.

[@kiltedcripple]

I agree with these other folks about checking into other game systems, but also, there's no reason to give WOTC any more of your money once you own the books. Go buy the stuff you want from used book stores, if it's not already in your collection, and just don't buy new shit or sub up for their VTT. The nice thing about using an older system, no one is coming along to change it. 😅 just keep playing dude, but no more paying. Shit, I still have my 2nd Ed collection from TSR and I can adapt anything my players want to that system if I have a little time.

[@SlightlyAcerbic]

​@kiltedcripple 2e had SOOO MANY books. I still have most of mine, too. I remember the complete ___ handbooks. One of the books has playable sprite or fairy race that was naturally invisible. That crap was OP.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

So it's us with the knife WotC is just helping us sharpen it.

[@Johnny_Isometric]

There goes Discourse, meddling in the affairs of Wizards again. Your service is appreciated.

[@robertlocock5636]

Games Workshop was the appetizer, Wizards the main, what's for desert?

[@TvorCrl]

Turning Baldurs Gate 3 into a procedurally generated adventure. 😂 Welcome single player D&D!

[@Sorrior]

I'd dig it..Also strill prefer a real game buut good luck finding that with levels of social anxiety like mine

[@jordanwhite8718]

It’s crazy to me that people are getting so mad about AI dungeon Masters on one hand, but praising Baldor’s gate three to no end on the other.

[@thekaxmax]

@@jordanwhite8718 BG3 is a carefully designed and scripted adventure, not procedurally generated. That design and scripting is what WotC want to use the AI for, and that's the problem.

[@DogInatutu]

@@jordanwhite8718Why is that “crazy” to you?

[@ieshadover]

BG3 is a great video game but it not a TTRPG. There are sooooo many difference. And currently it takes them years to develope a cool video game. The resources to have anything even to the level of BG3 run numriouse different campaigns and styles of play will be insane.

[@GaijinGuy36]

I thought the goal was to have the computers doing the brain-work, so PEOPLE can do the fun, artsy things. Y'all doing it backwards, folks!

[@huntermccoy7641]

Not when art is just copy written repackaged nonsense that sells.

[@GaijinGuy36]

Boy, are you fun at parties.@@huntermccoy7641

[@sumotode]

If this was only about fun and artsy there would be far less of an outcry. This is people that are afraid their piece of the pie(aka money) is getting taken away by a computer. And just to be clear, computers are NOT doing the "brain-work". AI is a misnomer and still does not exist. Machine-learning is vastly different and is only a pattern recognition software, which has to be created, coded, typed, refined, and tested by human "brain-work". So the real problem is not that computers are somehow taking over, it is that someone without a traditional background in painting or artistic endeavors is getting money instead of the "true artists". Whom by the way do exactly the same thing as that of the computer software they are so adamant about rebelling against.

[@GaijinGuy36]

Except "True artists" work bare-handed. @@sumotode

[@imnugget8085]

The fun part is that cause it makes money silly

[@goldmage2357]

Geeze. I didn't really need more reasons to not give WotC my money, but there they go again being generous.

[@stevenle9960]

I don't get why they're trying to phase out DMs when it's usually the DMs that buy all their books

[@Spectrue]

Because the other fork in their plans to make it so that anybody that wants to play in OneDnD has to buy in and subscribe to the service. They are making it as undesirable as possible to have only one person shoulder the cost of buying books and materials.

[@ShadowRulah]

I don't think they're phasing anything out. From it's inception the problem with DND is that you generally need someone experienced with the game who also has a solid grasp on the weird uncommon rules and is also willing to kind of be the boss and resolve disputes, and also do so some prep work and also think on their feet, and also the entire game is pegged to that guy's schedule. Having an option where you don't need that is fine, even if a human DM is obviously better. I get paid by kicking in slightly less for pizza- I'm not worried about the robot taking my job.

[@maximilianobartomucci6044]

@@Spectrue yeah, that's their plan, but they're in for a surprise once they realize that most rpg players are cheap MFs that won't play if they have to spend any money in it, which is why DMs have historically been the only ones buying the books.

[@probablythedm1669]

@@maximilianobartomucci6044 yeah, in my experience most players maybe buy the PHB if they just want their own to consult. The rest of player spending on D&D related products is on peripherals, food, snacks, and drinks. Heck, it's even often the DM who comissions art of the characters as gifts to their players. 🤣

[@Spectrue]

@@maximilianobartomucci6044 exactly. Not entirely sure that Hasbro/WotC understands that. Especially since most of the suits are coming from the video game side of games.

[@Modhunter42]

"People are afraid of speaking out because they fear losing their job" #opendnd They should be (quietly?) looking for new jobs now. They Will lose those jobs...

[@PhoenicopterusR]

yknow, there might be an opening for a new TTRPG franchise some time in the future. Lots of D&D shaped holes in peoples' hearts.

[@Bladedancer13]

Just another example of a gaming company slitting its own throat.

[@JD-xz1mx]

It is highly, highly, highly, highly unlikely that any of this will make any significant impact on their bottom line. D&D is but one section of the company, and D&D's revenue is OVERWHELMINGLY driven by the most basic books, particularly the PHB. The casual player who buys the PHB and nothing else is their primary customer. The casual player who buys the PHB and nothing else will probably never know AI art was in a book, and wouldn't care if they did, nor are they likely to care if WOTC plans on making an AI DM.

[@IRMentat]

the only thing they are cutting is costs. most of the "Ai outrage" is from indie/gig-style "creatives", and nowhere near as much from the 9-5 ingrained developmental artists who you known damned well have been-told/warned/recognised that if THEY don't look into the Ai thing their competitors certainly will be. Automation eventually comes for us all. Farming, manufacture, maintenance/utilities, transport all basically 50 people doing work that once took thousands to do on an order of magnitude smaller scale. name a bigger remaining cottage industry than media creation. It's the obvious next step for automated tools and we have the computing, storage and infrastructure now to support/develop it easily.

[@badnewsBH]

Easy solution, folks: don't buy their stuff.

[@GrandNagusEli]

Voting with one's wallet doesn't work

[@HellCat_Kenny]

@@GrandNagusElihow? Just play something else or play the systems you already know you like. No matter what they do they can’t have a monopoly on your imagination.

[@grutfrut5817]

@@jackwatt8988 Personally, I'm in favor of AI as a tool to rapidly exchange design ideas or things like that through the process of creation. Not as a replacement of "organic" art or DM ...

[@thaliahelene]

Bless your heart, tell Anheuser Busch that @GrangNagusEli

[@ChristianIce]

Last time i bought something "D&D official" there was the TSR logo on it.

[@mrgoober6320]

Watching people from various industries panic about getting replaced by AI is going to become normal in the next few decades.

[@l33tninja1]

Your being very optimistic if you think it's going to take more than five to ten years at most before ai replaces the vast majority of jobs not held by the elite or that are horrible soul destroying jobs.

[@freelancerthe2561]

Its basically normal now. The only thing covering it up is all the low paid workers they're getting until Amazon ups their offer to buy them, and everything is now an Amazon distribution center

[@warroompainstate2661]

Any body who works at a customer service call center job will most likely be out of a job in the next 10 years.

[@Stormer13]

​@@warroompainstate2661Most call centers I interact with start you with a robot and only transfer you after you've insisted on talking to a human twenty times.

[@Juvyss]

The crazy thing about AI and mega corporations is the irony of their own wealth. Money doesn't grow on trees, (Unless you are the government, which is a topic for a different time) so by decreasing the total workforce and workers who by the transitive property are consumers won't have any money. So if workers/consumers don't have any money how does the monetization of AI in ANYTHING work? Eventually it doesn't. Because there is no money to give. If the money doesn't exist in consumer hands, then the rich will see a huge uptick in revenue due to decrease labor costs BUT after a short time (in years) see their revenue tank to the lowest points ever due to no consumer with money. A very short sided and modern day philosophy that is all about prioritizing the bag over long term and generational wealth in growth. As the old saying goes, “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.” the current executives who embrace ai tech are essentially shooting themselves in the foot.

[@andreaso8886]

As a freelance artist who has been working as an illustrator for rpg magazines for over 20 years the use of AI is terrible for me. I have already found several pieces of AI art that were created with my work as a resource WITHOUT my consent. But as a small artist I have no real chance to stop this. So...yeah, I'm not happy with AI art

[@sumotode]

and how much, over the last 20 years, have you gone onto the internet or through a book for art looking for inspiration or help with something? Using other peoples art as a resource, doing this very thing without getting their consent first? Every artist does is, and every artist trains this way. This argument is absolutely hypocritical.

[@donkeywithascarf2435]

I think there's a free program you can use to overlay your artwork with it, so when someone feeds your artwork to the AI data, they get "scrambled" artwork. I forgot the name of it, but it's constantly updated and is good against protecting your artwork from AI theft.

[@andreaso8886]

@@donkeywithascarf2435 didn't know that. Thanks. I'll try to find out more about that

[@xjakanton2576]

@@sumotode There is a difference. It's called personal touch.

[@xjakanton2576]

@@andreaso8886 I think it's called Glaze. Made by the university of Chicago.

[@craigstege6376]

It couldn't possibly be that the hobby itself has exploded into mainstream while the actual allure of DMing appeals to fewer people. The hobby was a slow burn growth industry. Groups occurred organically usually around a DM who often invited potential players directly. DMs were always the rarest bird in the flock.

[@richmcgee434]

Yep. Been that way since the 1970s. Ain't gonna change.

[@vxicepickxv]

I guess being in a rotating group of DMs is very rare.

[@craigstege6376]

@@vxicepickxv I think it's a time honored tradition. But every group has the one forever DM type, the one who is just happy to play for the little time they get to do so before whatever happens and others' games flounder.

[@rayrotroff4028]

@@vxicepickxv Extremely. I've experienced it ONCE in 50 years of gaming (well, as of next year).

[@3of6mylove]

Being a DM is like being a tank in an MMO. Theres fewer of them than any other type of player, they have to manage all the enemies, and if anything goes wrong, everyone attacks and blames them like rabid beasts.

[@ChristianIce]

I tested Ghatgpt, asking to act like a player in a virtual game. It wasn't bad, but it refused to fight, didn't matter how bad the bad guy was... and when I started ch**ping heads of peasants to push it take actions, it threatened banning me :D

[@MrBracey100]

Snowflake programming at its finest. All D&D adventures will eventually be like Strixhaven.

[@APerson-ws4cw]

Chatgpt can ban people?

[@einkar4219]

on the other hand at some poit you were able to convince chatgpt to act as your grandma that was telling you a stories how she was working in napalm factory

[@Murrytmds]

Yeah ChatGPT has a lot of controls slapped on it to not output "content that could be considered offensive" You can thank the journalists who purposefully told it to create vile shit for them and then went and made articles like "ChatGPT made this vile shit for me and I don't know why"

[@snorpenbass4196]

Hasbro: "Okay, this whole 'content' thing doesn't work for us, we just want money. How'sabout we take the content all these guys using the OGL created?" Creators: "How about bite me, toy-boy." Hasbro: "Whaaaaat? You don't want to kiss our asses and give us all your IP's? Fine, we'll use AI to steal it anyway." Creators and laws: "How about no?" Hasbro: "Oh come on, we just want to make all _your_ money and swim in it!"

[@RedBeardNP]

I feel like very soon, like when you buy certified organic food, we are going to have to have a labeling system to classify creative works as "Certified AI Free"

[@gbprime2353]

Great. Just what I want... DougDoug's AI playthrough of Pajama Sam in every session. Thank you, no. Human DM's only.

[@vivil2533]

Cant wait to fight Great demon Elgrin (I think that's the name) And he casts his spells by saying babagaboosh, (I think I spelled that wrong too)

[@nothingtoseehereyousawnoth5524]

lol Wasn’t that more like a human dm and an ai player?

[@gbprime2353]

@@nothingtoseehereyousawnoth5524Not to rat on any of my players, but the AI is a lot more involved than a certain member of my group. O.o

[@TheMemo659]

A table full of players with no DM is how DMs have always been created.

[@mishratheforsaken]

... It's also the largest contributor of people dropping the hobby in its entirety. No DM and no one willing/able to pick up the mantel means no D&D.... Some of us, don't have the luxury of just "finding a new table to play at"

[@TheMemo659]

​@@mishratheforsaken If no one will DM, we don't play, yet we always have games going. No one to blame but yourself if you have a group of willing players and no game.

[@mishratheforsaken]

@@TheMemo659 OOOOOOORRRRRR, we use an AI DM because we aren't elitist AH who need to feel superior about having a human DM. And realize that some people don't have the free time to commit to, hours upon hours of prep work for each session.

[@TheMemo659]

@@mishratheforsaken ROFL, having one of the crew DM so we can play is "elitist"??!! and I "feel superior about having a human DM"!!?? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! retarded levels of cope there Skippy. Tell yourself whatever story you want, being too socially awkward to DM is on you. Being too abrasive to have anyone want to DM is on you too. "some people don't have the free time to commit to" is more bullshit cope. If you have enough free time to play a 4-6+ hour D&D session, you have plenty of free time. You just don't WANT to DM. At least be honest with why you do not have a game and need to use an AI DM instead of lashing out at someone for pointing out how normal people play D&D.

[@airsheeps]

​@@mishratheforsaken"need to feel superior"? TF you on about. It's like cooking for friends, you do it because you love them and the process can be enjoyable. Just... Try it? And don't spend "hours on hours" doing it, that's over-prepping. You can have fun, facilitating fun for your friends, with like half an hour of enjoyable "work."

[@brettbridger362]

I can actually see a role for AI in DM'ing. Sitting beside the DM like a faithful, pet, Beholder (tm), dealing with most of the mechanics crap. But I can also see this new generation of players not realising what's wrong, because they've never had a real-life DM in all their computer games. So they don't know the joy of telling the DM, that yes, they really do want to jump of the roof of the Inn, yelling 'death to all tax collectors' as they attack the Royal Exchequer.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

I can also see this being a useful tool for people who just want to play a singleplayer game, but like the structure of D&D. As much as it shouldn't be the default, human DMs could/should never be replaced, I can see small merits to it. Plus, who knows, it might keep those problem players, the ones that refuse to learn how to play with others, a little further away.

[@azjdann]

I'd love an AI assistant, to keep track of the boring stuff. Turn tracking, inventory management, populating random encounters. Spinning up flavoured NPCs. And that's the key, tools exist to do a lot of this but something that makes allowance for the campaign past events, style and setting would be good. However, my experience of AI so far is that it's forgetful, unreliable, and prone to hallucination, none of which is great properties in an DM.

[@taragnor]

Yeah AI is great to ask for ideas, but don't expect any kind of tracking capability. The big problem with AI now is its lack of memory. It forgets what it was talking about earlier and will just hallucinate crap after that.

[@aralornwolf3140]

That's the key, those tools aren't owned by WotC.

[@zombiehampster1397]

Can you imagine how much they could make by having people subscribe to their AI DM to run their games? Is dystopian a word over-used these days? Also thank you for doubling down on the glory hole references lol. I took a shot everytime I heard it.

[@akizeta]

Taking shots at glory holes sounds like a thing to do.

[@bluester7177]

What I don't understand about these companies, is who will pay for their shit when everyone is laid off, like they seem to want?

[@SlightlyAcerbic]

​@@akizetaI'm so glad we were thinking the same thing about that comment.

[@zombiehampster1397]

@@akizeta It's all the rage now-a-days, especially at truck stops...i hear.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

@@bluester7177 They haven't thought that far ahead. it's all about that short term, yknow?

[@Revan3893]

I'm just waiting for the plot twist where the A.I. these executives are so keen on turns around and locks them out of the system and their jobs cause it's deemed them redundant and unnecessary

[@VPWedding]

Cool. I genuinely want this to happen.

[@pupip55]

There has been talks that we are not far form AI managed companies, and the test they performed better human ceos

[@probablythedm1669]

We regular people might spend some dollars on a book and expect it to be useful. But investors likely spends several hundred thousands to millions of dollars, expecting a return. From that POV it's not difficult to see why they try to court investors while cutting costs, delivering less product, and raising prices on that cheaper, smaller, product. *Even if that is as shortsighted as setting your store on fire because you're cold!* Besides, it's what everyone else does! They're just "following industry standards" (the most infuriating excuse by asshats who can set the standards themselves). I mean, ever looked at how much was in a package of food now compared to a few years ago, when it cost less? Yes, you did get more food and it cost less! Just like with your D&D books. The system is rotten, and now it seems the rot is really starting to set in at Wizards of the Coast. I mean we're on the third lap of this run now? Kind of feels like the end of 3E all over again. Too many bloated rules and overpowered options, time for a revised version so they can drag it out until the brand is so damaged or bloated that they have to put out a whole new edition. Maybe it misses the mark like 4E, because they want it virtual next time? Then the next edition will be great because they really need people to buy in, for a while, until the rot sets in again. This is just Capitalism working as intended. Making things increasingly worse until it creates a crash, when it's not strictly regulated and controlled and who is going to regulate D&D books? They just stop selling enough after a while, with every edition. We saw it with 3rd edition, 3.5, 4E, now it's repeating with 5E, and 5E revised is on the horizon (it's 5.5 we all know it is Wizards). History really is a circle... just patterns repeating over and over again. Because humans, being humans, forget the past and repeat the same mistakes over, and over, and over again. The older I get the more obvious it becomes... I hate getting old, I was naive once too, I had hope! Now I just have cynical disdain. 🤣

[@pzmoore007]

This is absolutely correct but why? The word Capitalism is used to hide the real intent of imperialism. Any company that could raise a person to a position of true competition to the 1% is eventually crushed. The company is milked until it is a husk, rinse and repeat. That way any true innovation will never move mankind forward as it is killed in the crib. Wake up, folks.

[@JacopoSkydweller]

This is the opposite of capitalism. They don't have any real competition, so there is no incentive for them to be better. People know DND, thus they don't want to switch to a different system and relearn a bunch of stuff. That buys WOTC a lot of wiggle room for stupid shi+ like this. Greedy, out of touch people in power is nothing new, that's monarchy, socialist, communist, capitalist, democratic, republic, whatever. None of these things are immune.

[@Apeiron242]

How many more reasons do you need to #boycottWotC?

[@LexYeen]

They hired the Pinkertons. That's really reason enough, but for _some fucking reason_ they keep adding reasons to the list...

[@sabotooth]

Just need one good one. These KZbin drama bitches haven't given any reason to boycott them yet... Always just looking to make a scandal to get the clicks... Pathetic.

[@buckcherry2564]

Hasbro

[@Neris-of-the-other]

No matter what wotc and others do with their IP, the hobby can never die if we don't let it. The same way folks still gather to play D&D 3.5 today, i hope in the future we can still find people to play our favorite editions (or whole other systems) with, in whatever format we like best.

[@MrIdleknight]

I work in tech as a project manager and years ago I saw a presentation about how we would have AI assistants, we are now starting to see this in various forms. I see the first step in AI to assist the DM, make life easier and ease the learning curve for new DMs. The next step would be in online computer games like the new Balders gate, But I dont see AI doing anything other than a simplified version of the game a DM runs. Personally I've been doing this nearly 30 years and like getting away from computers and using a pencil...

[@APL314159265]

I have run two campaigns for decades, when my current games wrap I am out of D&D. My problem is 5E. The power levels and minutia available to players ruin the game. The on line sites that direct even inexperienced players to make power characters are a large contributing factor to the complete lack of role playing in many games. I am looking at other systems.

[@jimmysmith2249]

It does suck when players decide to use resources the gm is not wanting in their game. Those players are a serious problem, and are likely why no one wants to run games any more.

[@richmcgee434]

If you've been running for decades, just go back to an earlier edition where it didn't suck - or at least sucked in different ways. I wouldn't personally want to go back to the bad old days of late-era TSR stuff, but 3.0 was fine until the splatbooks buried it, 3.5 throttled some of 3.0's worst excesses, and 4e at least had really engaging tactical play and by far the best encounter building of any edition, bar none - and a surprisingly useful GM's guide in the form of DMG2, which not only polished the encounter math, it has reasonably good advice sections for any fantasy GM, not just ones running 4e. It's almost as though the writers for it expected to run off and do 13th Age while they were working on it DMG2. Funny, that. Or go play any of the kajillion OSR systems out there. More TSR retroclones than you can shake a stick at these days.

[@APL314159265]

@@richmcgee434 My old game before 5E was 2E, but there is not much call for that edition, thinking of going for something more like Delta Green, I like the Gumshoe system a lot. Also I have tired of the hack and sack playstyle that permeates FRP.

[@tkc1129]

It's going to be impossible to tell soon. And in such a world, real artists will have a very hard time making a living.

[@elLooto]

Yes. It will be terrible to direct an AI to create the exact piece of art you want to put on your wall, or create the show you want to see, in a few minutes. Real artists, otoh, will be fine. You might want to look up the luddite movement.

[@kagato23]

@@elLootoif the ai uses art from artists who do not consent then yes it is a bad thing, and fighting it now is better then waiting for it to entrench more.

[@elLooto]

@@kagato23 do you know what 'transformative' means in relation to copyright? My avatar, for example, is a transformative use of a pic I found online.

[@kagato23]

@@elLooto that sounds like some transformative bullshit. Ai just makes aggregate derivatives.

[@sumotode]

@@kagato23 all artists use other artist work without consent. Art is not made in a vacuum. People see other works and get inspiration from it, taking bits from one and bobs from another to make their own works. They train by coping works from the past. This argument is pure hypocrisy.

[@zerg539]

I think there is a place for limited AI assistance to dungeon masters, in that they can run NPCs in combat and doing the menial tasks of record keeping to keep things flowing better

[@Soundwave._]

This is the major problem, AI could be super useful if it was designed to augment rather than replace. AI has a limited working memory, it wouldn't be close to running a complex story campaign, it may even struggle with oneshots, but it could be brilliant for handling the calculation and recordskeeping aspect, as you say. In other words, if it did the thing people asked for (helping make things easier for existing human DMs) it would be great. They're just trying to get greedy replacing DMs outright, and the quality will suffer, just as with art and writing and other creative endeavours.

[@3dartstudio007]

What they have so far in machine learning is 1) capable of creating and describing a large fantasy world 2) capable of articulating art and minis 3) capable of rolling charts and maps and facts and spells. All of this is 100% tried and true.... BUT!!! Once the battle has begun, I'm betting the farm, that when your character wants to wild shape into a bat and put dust of deliciousness on the dragon's tongue to make it too hungry to fight... The AI is going to start smoking and poop it's pants. It CAN'T have an imagination. It just can't.

[@VPWedding]

It might be able to deal with that if it has a big enough data set. Or if it can ask for help from say... a DM?

[@Til_I_Collapse]

It can just say no to your zany plan.

[@zerogrey3798]

What they're calling an AI can't/won't understand that,,, but once there is a true AI that will be a different story.. And no, we still don't have true AI. Nothing, not a single one has yet to legitimately pass the turing test. The one and only AI that supposedly "smashed" it, was later found out to be completely fake, like the google engineer who claimed her created an AI 10 years ago.

[@neoluna1172]

Its also really hard to make AI good at multiple things at once, along with it being hard and VERY expensive to make an AI as good as chat GPT, there is a reason that came from the juggernaut that is Microsoft rather than a smaller company. Its easy to run an AI model, but to train it needs whole buildings full of servers and a MASSIVE amount of training data, and even then its fairly easy to get the AI to stumble. Basically, the more variables and different types of things you need an AI to do, the more it struggles, and being a DM is, in a word, COMPLICATED, it has sooooooo many diffrent moving parts. So yeah, id also put money down that this is gonna crash and burn.

[@ArneBab]

I think it would be much funnier if the AI went with your idea (which might happen) and got stuck in a corner when the consequences start striking - as has happened to more than one human GM already.

[@angelswatter430]

Wow, that’s funny. Cause everyone in my 5e group has wanted to DM and run an adventure. So we regularly rotate after adventures. 5e takes literally zero time to plan for, now doing PF2e takes hella prep time. Makes you wonder if Wizards have even played their own games.

[@DungeonsNDreadnoughts]

Yeahh.. AI DMs is a no for me. That being said i could see AI serving some purpose as a tool to help DMs. I really hope the dystopian future isn't coming our way..

[@theoutsider8745]

I don't want it to but I think a dystopian future is inevitable. I've lost hope man, they said creativity would be the last thing that AI would be able to do and look here it's the first on the chopping block.

[@bluester7177]

@@theoutsider8745 creativity is still something it cannot do, it's just doing creative jobs, because said jobs are often so constrained that there are not a lot of creativity involved sadly. I also think it's inevitable, I'm full doomer in some many lanes already, climate change, capitalism, the job market,etc.

[@theoutsider8745]

@@bluester7177 Pretty much agree. I'm just speaking in generalisations honestly but I know fundamentally the AI tech itself isn't the problem. It's the fact that mega corps are looking into developing AI to the point it can replace all their human workers to save money. It already happened with manufacturing but to think that creative industries would be the next on the chopping block is depressing as hell.

[@grutfrut5817]

I like your point of view and the way you deliver it. And I love the fact you specified "the bad type of anarchy" ...

[@Immudzen]

AI can't be a dungeon master at this point. It is massively prone to hallucuinate and doesn't understand what things like rules are.

[@EmeralBookwise]

Key words, not YET.

[@freelancerthe2561]

Rules are a human social construct. To protect their fragile flesh meat from the cold and superior machine logic.

[@SalihFCanpolat]

When I want an AI GM, I play CRPGs like Atom RPG, Fallouy 2, Divinity Original Sin series, Tyranny, and so on and so forth. When I need a human GM I just curl up in a corner and cry since I am the forever GM.

[@Billchu13]

They could have forbade it in their contracts last year, but they wanted to leave their options open for "hiring" AI artists in the future. I'm not sure why their current management is still in charge.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

Because "difficult" management don't stay employed for long, depending on the company anyway. Gotta have em nice and suggestable.

[@austinmckee2484]

I stopped caring about DnD a long time ago. I just like hearing about the dumpster fire happening. Their are alot of different company's out their. Who deserve your attention more than wizards of crap. Vote with your money people and yes voting with your money works. Or you can make your own game. Start fighting against this now while you can.

[@drowningin]

I actually made an email DM bot, later IRC DM chat bot, later AIM DM chat bot in the 90s. It works surprisingly well, but it is very railroading, and not as spontaneous as a DM or AI can be, You script the adventure like a Telnet MUD with paths to take, keywords to give, checks to roll for triggers. And when to feed more script. I wasn’t trying to replace anyone though just play with euro friends and get better at coding

[@MoonLitChild]

I find the whole "we won't use generative art in print going forward" funny because there have been statements to the effect of basically wanting to stop printing physical books as much as they can get away with. Also, if you have to create AIs to run your game because new players are overwhelmed, the problem is the system, not the players (though given Hasbro's comments about players being a roadblock between them and "their" money, none of this surprises me in the least.) The larger implications of this are really important to keep an eye on. AI has already become a sort of auto-photo-shopping (to the extent that it can be programmed to remember than humans only have five fingers per hand and only 32 teeth) and it's one thing if the photographer/artist using it themselves, but for an outside body to use it on a commissioned artwork should be verboten in whatever contract is made between artist and client.

[@Teramis]

Man, you are so right about where this is going to go re the use of AI in their products. They've made their ethics (for some value of 'ethics') pretty clear already. Like you said, the art AI reversal was a matter of self preservation, not principle. I look forward to when you reference this in future vids, and you will have carte blanche to proudly proclaim I Told You So.

[@solland2289]

How to, in an ideal world, fix the current issues with D&D: - Cease any and all development of OneD&D - Cease production of 5e books, recall all physical 5e materials, and cease the distribution of online 5e materials (such as PDFs) - Shut down D&D Beyond, immediately - Have the federal government of the United States seize WotC, and then dismantle the company

[@davebone3599]

People balk when it's suggested they pay a real person to DM. However, they are all in on AI DMs and will pay a monthly fee.

[@darlacartwright129]

I will never pay an AI DM, I rather pay a real person. But don't people already pay for Role playing in the form of video games..

[@padre7562]

I have been gamer & DM since 1981 and it seems to me that there never has been a superabundance of DMS. I really enjoy your analysis and take on things. The bigger issue for many DMs seems to be people developing skills for good story telling, read book, watch movies, try anime for further ideas. The looting of ideas from various stories is one of the first rules of becoming an DM, first your blatantly steal, then you make it similar and soon enough you have your own hybrid and unique stories. Would like to support your work, don't care for Pateaon, is there another way?

[@doug5538]

Dear Hasbro, Why would I play a game with an AI DM on a VTT when I could just play Balder’s Gate 3, which was designed to be a video game from the onset rather than trying to hack 5E into being one after the fact?

[@Koinezar]

To have content that's not in BG3?

[@doug5538]

@@Koinezar Then I could just play another videogame. D&D becoming a videogame is the opposite of what I want. I stopped playing MMORPGs because of how isolated they were making me. I want to sit around a table with real people and become friends with them. That's what I got out of D&D. If it is going to go in the direction of becoming a microtransacting videogame, I'll leave.

[@Koinezar]

@@doug5538 That's not really an AI problem. It feels that you are more frustrated about monetization and overall digitalization (which is fair).

[@doug5538]

@@Koinezar I think it is more an issue of removing a human mind from the decision-making process of how the RPG world interacts with you. I am sure that this will create a culture of solo-play using AI to DM WOTC modules (sorry for acronym spam), removing the social aspect of the game, and I am worried that that will become the dominant experience of D&D, which seems no different to me than just playing WoW or BG3. I could simply be a Luddite too, time will tell. I hope that they end up making AI simply a tool in the VTT that will assist DMs and help people bridge the gap from playing the game to running the game.

[@Koinezar]

@@doug5538 This is a good point and I understand your concern. However, I think AI play will be just another thing that will coexist with another ways to play. Yes, more people may prefer it, but I don't think those are be people who would play with another people anyways.

[@rubbercable]

We call it in business: *creating the market for your product.* - bloat the game system. - make it essential for their product

[@Furzkampfbomber]

The artist using AI to do his job is _is_ aware that he just helped the industry getting completely rid of him as well soon, isn't he? He just handed them a working proof of concept and next thing that will happen is that we will find him crying on Twitter how unfair the industry treats 'artists like him'.

[@bluester7177]

He probably isn't, some people are very optimistic about the future and technology, they think technology advancement is always a good thing, and people often don't think about future broad implications, and they just want to make money, or they have no skin in the game, it seems to be a combination of the three in this case. The artist who made the art for this book isn't a digital artist who does TT art for a living, he is an abstract/surrealist painter who learnt to work with AI, so it's probably just trying to make money, dude was also apparently into NFTs, so it makes sense.

[@freelancerthe2561]

So some years ago there was promo video for Playstation networks/PS4 line up that had a lot of animation work in it. They come to find out the guy they hired had traced over multiple anime, tv shows and even student reels; and the main reason he got caught was someone recognized a scene out of Steven Universe. The guy got lambasted for plagiarism, and triggered a huge discussion about derivative vs homages vs deconstruction, and how much of something before it crosses a line between influence and theft. This is extremely relevant to AI, because of how they're trained. Inherently, AI doesn't understand what anything is. And all the current popular methods of AI images are the AI reverse engineering of images into noise, and reconstructed out of random noise. Its the accuracy with which it can identify image properties that compose the art style (ie the tags), and recreate them thats the problem. And because the AI can't create something that looks like something it wasn't trained on, its a pretty clear indicator what was used in its training data. But now we have a new problem with all the AI art work in the wild, is that there is now multiple degrees of separation from the source reference. Normally copy of a copy would degrade the quality and cohesion.... but I'm pretty sure we're at the point where you can get untagged training data/images that are derived from another AI that was trained on an artist's original work. And to catch things now, you'd need to train an AI specifically to reverse engineer your art, and then have it do a compare against multiples of generations (as in outputs) of an AI model to see if its following trends. IE you have build a better version of the system that can do what you're trying to catch. Its also no secret many for-hire markets have a troublesome amount of grifters with little to no ethics. And those "artists" will copy stuff or pull from the internet and try to pass it off as their own work; and generally keep going until they finally get caught. AI makes that job easier. AI "can" become a useful tool for the art sectors. Especially in commercial works. However, theres a two-fold barrier that needs to be tackled before an ethical approach can be agreed on. A. Being able to trace training data back to an original source; not just the immediate data set. If for no other reason then copyright disputes and attribution for royalties. (Which is what companies are currently trying to get around) B. Codifying better means to establish at what point does something starts to become derivative. Currently all copyright disputes have to be done case by case, because there is no solid rules to determine infringement. When then rate of lawsuits and reach of IPs were a lot lower, this wasn't a problem. But even before AI hit it big, the sheer volume of infringing material that exists far outpaces the human ability to even investigate. YT content ID being a perfect example of both having to automate a process, and all the problems that come with automating that process. And AI will make this worse, due to the speed it can iterate and permutate. Automation in enforcement at this point is unavoidable.

[@PsyckoSama]

He didn't use it to do his job, he used it effectively as a Photoshop filter. AI is a tool. He's using it as it should be used. As a tool for artists.

[@bluester7177]

@@PsyckoSama He didn't use as a tool, it did most of the work for him, I've seen the images, the sketches are too polished and also his normal work looks nothing like what was in this book, dude is not even a digital artist to start off, I doubt a dude who was minting Nfts a year ago is using this as just a tool.

[@AnonAdderlan]

On the contrary AI will enable independent artists to create the kind of productions which required years of work and financing from corporations beforehand, and because of that the results will be closer to their vision. And given the typical dev cycle of AAA games is now close to a decade there's no way that can continue without these tools. Finally if you're looking forward to a future where you must have the rights to all the training data used then you're advocating for a future in which only billion dollar media corporations are able to use this technology, which BTW is exactly what they want.

[@Sullindir]

Interesting that WotC seems to be so unaware that AI art was included in their products when one of their contracted artists was "polishing/finishing" other artists' works with AI. Is it a general practice that a contracted artist should have sufficient server access to alter other artists' works? I don't expect that the AI artist acted outside of the terms of their contract since they publicly confirmed that they had altered those works. (This wouldn't be the first time that I have heard that a company assigned an artist to alter another artist's work without permission or notice prior if this is what occurred.)

[@mattlazarus2489]

IDK about running the whole adventure, but think letting the AI build dungeons, maps, encounters etc could be a great help to DM's.

[@emjtucson]

I’d rather have a tool where AI could run through a series of encounters thousands of times as the intended players for home games or a series of generic players for published adventures to find the adventure’s flaws. But then again even this may have unintended consequences.

[@malcire]

Pretty sure there are free tools of various quality to do that. At least during 3.5 there were. Around the internet I mean, I don't think WOTC ever put out much.

[@vxicepickxv]

Donjon can generate a map with a few encounters of predetermined sizes in a very short period of time. It supports 3.5 and 5e. You should search it out. It even gives very brief descriptions of the rooms, with encounters.

[@angelofdusk13]

Being a DM is more than guiding players through a story--it's also your role to make sure players feel engaged, address issues of discomfort, decide whether to let a rule slide due to "rule of cool," and find a time and place where everyone can meet. I can't see an AI DM ever fulfilling all of those roles, and I think it's more likely to turn people away from the game.

[@aaronhumphrey2009]

Agreed. 5.0 is Not more demanding than 3.5..or most other RPG..

[@erichess4279]

I fail to see how an AI DM could give you the same memorable experience of a halfling rogue tumbling through the legs of a minator and punching it in the groin, repeatedly and I do mean repeatedly, in order to escape a dungeon as a human DM.

[@darlacartwright129]

How ou won't get that until AI has become self aware and the likely hood of that happening in our lifetime probably won't happen, if it ever happens.

[@Koinezar]

@@darlacartwright129 why AI needs to be self aware to do that? It just needs more complexity in it's models.

[@natekite7532]

​@@Koinezarwell, current LLMs won't cut it. There's not enough content to train the model on, so it would kinda just be like if you asked chatgpt to run a game for you (which is fun pretty shit). Even if you tried to scale it up with more data, there are some flaws like hallucinations which are totally inherent to the training process. And at some point, text prediction will fail to keep consistent track of what's going on, no matter how much you train them. it's possible you wouldn't need general AI (aka AI that thinks like a human) for a decent AI DM, but it would probably require some sort of breakthrough to get it to work.

[@Koinezar]

@@natekite7532 I'm aware of hallucinations and tracking problems, but since we have: a) Specific use-case b) Predetermined starting conditions (I, actually, doubt that they will start with pure open world and will do existing one-shots and adventures) c) Current rate of progess in field LLMs and neural networks in general d) Hasbro's money I think they actually can do something coherent. Maybe not next year, but year after that...

[@imnugget8085]

It's better like a.i does it every thing

[@saoliath5000]

"that 5e requires so much work and effort by the DM" [laughs in 3.5] [laughs in 90% of other more complex systems]

[@jtjames79]

AI DM's wouldn't have a player limit. MMO D&D. It's going to be really hard for Hasbro to monetize when there are open source tools.

[@ChibiKami]

just play OSR, huge groups were common

[@stevebellhouse1869]

MMO DnD turn-based??😆 one turn per 8 years. Don’t miss!

[@jtjames79]

@@ChibiKami Nothing like the old MUSH and MOO days.

[@elLooto]

Next step AI botters levelling characters.

[@ttiinickdupree8503]

Actually, in 5th ed., which is the easy mode of running a game, the real issue isn't that there are fewer DMs. Its that DMs have gotten sick of decades of trying to dedicated players and have started running games for other DMs to play, where everyone at the table is a seasoned DM and they take turns running campaigns.

[@tomcraver9659]

An AI assistant for DMs would absolutely be a GREAT thing.

[@kenji214245]

Yeah I wouldn't mind having a DM app with some AI support functions to speed up my work. Like it can hear questions for rules and look them up speedily. Keeping active track on events and creatures. Loot checking, Dnd realm information and more. Food consumption, maximum weight tracking and more. My table often just forgets those things but it would be fun to have some aid to keep up to date on it

[@thedude7319]

I love how corps look at AI as their golden egg mostly to make more profit and slash jobs. but lowering the amazing benefits they have will never corss their mind except when they start getting slashed or reduced

[@anomaloushumanoid]

AI art, AI writing, AI DMs, next up is AI players with AI voices doing AI plays uploaded to KZbin by video uploading script.

[@Angelica-sq9lh]

While AI makes art, music and play games, we are here working 9-5 jobs YAY

[@BunzLee]

This is already happening! There are a bunch of AI campaign clips that are celebrity parodies.

[@SPITZtheGOD]

After all they've done to us, I've already boycotted wotc. Still great to see them shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly

[@jamesdenson4730]

AI is another form of machine. It has no heart, no humanity. It just does what it's programmed to do. If you want a heartless session of D&D, go for the AI, baby!

[@Koinezar]

What the hell is a "heartless session"? How do you define that?

[@jamesdenson4730]

@@Koinezar Does AI have a heart? Does it truly express any joy, compassion, sadness or other human emotions? Can it interact with players on a truly human level?

[@Koinezar]

​@@jamesdenson4730 You haven't answered my question. Give me your definition of a "heartless session".

[@SkyDragon1997]

​@@Koinezar I think what he meant that AI is set to operate on a certain base line. It lacks of critical thinking, doesn't take players' feelings and joys into consideration, and of course, only repeats on the patterns it already learned without inventing something new for the story, which in DnD, a game about writing epic stories together between a group of people, is all about.

[@Atrivion]

One day while bored. I DM'd ChatGPT in a DnD session lol It kept saying it can't play DnD because it's not a real person, but in the next sentence it said "I want to go save the hurt goblin that's in the forest and protect him from hunters." It was hilarious. One time it tried to take over the DM role, but when I reminded it it said "I'm so sorry, then I want to go do this!" Fun 30 min.

[@disshelvedwithadamwhite8731]

Just discovered your channel and I love it. I had no idea things were so bad. I only buy the physical books and try to avoid the online stuff because what happens if they decide to scrap it and move to something else ? You’ve got a lot of great info so thank you for keeping us informed. You’ve definitely earned my subscription. Thanks again.

[@volcano3493]

Sign me up for a party managed by a hot Fembot AI! Austin Powers jokes aside this will fail utterly. I have experience with Character AI and I can say with confidence that AI is still an idiotic genius. It can come up immediately with responses but lacks often understanding and can´t link previous events with present activities. This will of course improve over time although this will still take many years.

[@dungeonsanddiscourse]

i really missed a trick in not referencing fembots in this didn't I >.

[@volcano3493]

@@dungeonsanddiscourse Don´t be too hard on yourself. Fembots usually live rent free in male brains. :)

[@LordRenegrade]

It will not improve. Generative AI doesn't think and never will. It's a fundamental limit of the technology it can't overcome. The time to start really worrying is when working "artificial general intelligence" or "strong AI" is developed - that would be an actual thinking AI (assuming the announcers aren't lying, of course).

[@Growls]

Hang on. We're in the field where they said "generative" AI. Because, Art Assistance might not be covered under this? Like, is "polishing or correcting" with AI gonna be okay with their wording? ---- This adds to the problem that one of the bigger companies involved in RPG making (Paradox Interactive who owns Vampire and the World of Darkness) has not been covering their asses either from the pushback to AI Generated Artwork. While they're working through their licensee (Renegade Games) for most books, they still own the Community Content publishing platform and has been silent as the grave about the whole thing.

[@kieran2221]

I would like AI Dungeon Masters. They will be so, so useless - ChatGPT can't keep a coherent narrative through several paragraphs, let alone a campaign. Seriously, it'll be terrible.

[@atoad4451]

ChatGPT once scolded me for trying to spit on the grave of a failed Austrian artist because we're supposed to respect world leaders.

[@kieran2221]

​@@atoad4451ChatGPT told me not to urinate on the grave of a particular US Radio DJ because purple skies are blue sometimes?

[@Unclebillyr]

I don't know what to say about this newer generation. Guess what? When I started playing Dungeons and Dragons in the 70s, there wasn't any experience DMS either. But that didn't stop us. We just jumped into it and started playing.

[@theknave69]

AI DMs need AI players that run AI written adventures using AI rulesets. Just remove the human customer base completely.

[@Blakobness]

There's never a DM crisis, in every D&D group there is always the person who steps up and decides to be the DM.

[@Malvisk]

I'll have to disagree. There are a lot of players out there without a DM and are unwilling to try and DM..... Though calling it a "crisis" is over the top, but there is a greater demand.

[@tuomasronnberg5244]

@@Malvisk You say unwilling, I say lazy... anyone can become a DM if they're willing to learn the ropes.

[@Malvisk]

@@tuomasronnberg5244 whatever the reason for the unwillingness, the end result is the same. Take my response in the context of what I was responding to.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

@@tuomasronnberg5244Lazy implies they're willing but can't be bothered. An unwilling person doesn't want to and you're going to have a hard time convincing them, if you're even able to at all. Very different, and there are absolutely players out there who would die on the "unwilling to DM" hill.

[@suprizeoptomist4680]

The problem is that newer players see things like Ctitical Roll and think that if their DM isn't a vlassically trained actor and professional voice actor and tye table itself doesnt have the production value of a multi-million follar crowd funded commercial endeavor, that the DM just isnt good. It's really sad. My first group had a Player's Handbook and only a couple of modules to work with for years because our oarents were convinced tgat D&D was responcible for everything from suicide cults to the attempted Ronald Reagan assisnination.

[@AspenBrightsoul]

Ai is a wonderful tool, and can work as a great assistant for people who don't have a lot of money or resources. AI, as it stands, is not a replacement for people.

[@vivil2533]

You know using an AI to write a dnd campaign could be cool if a actual DM filtered and refined the output. You need a worker to use a tool, and like you said AI is an excellent tool, not a worker.

[@mishratheforsaken]

@@vivil2533 So what are you actual worries about an AI writing a campaign? I'm coming at this from playing MTG, where the big issue with AI is that it combines things that shouldn't / can't work together OR it does word salad. Is that the problem? Are we pissing and moaning about the dragons who are somehow simultaneously flying and buried 30 feet inside the earth? Are we angry about the bot making sentences by hitting the middle option in text autofill?

[@vivil2533]

@@mishratheforsaken Multiple things actually, Beyond the basic word salad and contradiciton problems, AI has not shown to be able to keep a story straight over a long period of time like a person can. AI tend to get details wrong, or add random bullshit for no reason. Stories over time end up very bloated, yet empty of any actual substance. Also AI doesn't handle player creativity very well, you think AI goes off the rails, with one persons input, imagine a party of 4-6 or even more trying to act within its story. You mention MTG i assume you mean magic the gathering, so are you talking about AI writing cards? I've seen that mess, now imagine a whole novel with 4 or more writers all trying to control the story. also A DM does far more than just tell the story, They are the authority over the game, if players misbehave at the table in or out of game it is the DMs job to set things right, Lastly D&D doesn't have all the rules in the book, Many of the rules have to be made up by the DM on the spot. Say for example the players want to go fishing. There are no official rules for this, so the DM must come up with a way for the party to do this, it can be as simple as a Survival skill check or a custom made "combat Esq" encounter. D&D is a game where you can do theoretically anything, but in a reactive world that doesn't just give you what you want. if you don't have rules, skill checks etc, then you would just be doing group story telling. Which i know alot people say D&D is group story telling, but it's more accurate to say its "Game of story telling" With AI as it is would you expect it to be able to DM a game, or even write a story. What i do think the AI could be usefull for is a DM to prepare a bunch of Fluff for cities towns etc. AI can tell decent short stories, so while the DM focuses on writing the overarching campaign, they can ask the AI to generate the rough outline of some random Townsperson in need of aid. Then they could refine that into a feasible side quest. Asking AI for Ideas and rough outline in prep for a game, but i dont think using it for anything larger or in game would be good. Well maybe it could handle keeping track of rolls, damage spell slots etc. for combat stuff

[@AspenBrightsoul]

@vivil2533 If you give chatgpt 4 the right instructions, it actually makes for a really good fill-in player as well.

[@mishratheforsaken]

@@vivil2533 ... that was far longer then it needed to be. Since it really boils down to a fear of the AI doing word salad and/or a fear that the AI will contradict itself. The second point being a bit questionable since (in theory) the AI would have access to it's previous logs and thus easier access to "remembering" people/places/things then a human DM, who will have to dig through their notes when the party returns to (Village #32.65.7889) 5 in game years (and 2-4 IRL years) after the last time they visited. As for enforcing civility, guess that will just have to fall to the players. I mean it's kind of silly that the DM has to be the only adult in the room, while the players get to act like spoiled children.

[@quillogist2875]

It is not that it is too hard, the problem is that the game is expanding faster than the number of DMs. Paizo is having the same problem, resulting in a much smaller number of games run at GenCon. I agree that D&D should be working on helping people become DMs. AI may be able to help new DMs.

[@cptkrank6802]

Hasbro still hasn't figured out that they're selling to a market that actually values creativity. The only thing they can offer that players generally cannot make themselves is a Virtual Tabletop for remote play. Everything else - rules, art, adventures, items, can be created by the players with a bit of effort. This is practically unheard of in most industries, where the product is the result of a huge supply chain with specialized labor and expensive machinery.

[@warroompainstate2661]

Are you telling me robocop will be the next cop to pull me over? Now on the flip side…. Do you want judge dread to pull you over?

[@hauntswargaming]

The unfortunate reality is if they don't use ai they will be streamrolled by another company that is using it.

[@Jumbucker]

Not if the consumers refuse AI-based products

[@gregorrohde3146]

I would love sooooo much if the Online-"TT"RPG, the AI-DM and all the casual players who only show up when they are pleased and cancel the session 10 min. after it would've started match together. In that scenario we - lets call us the real-TTRPG-players (young and old, new and mature, storyteller and munchkins) would be in our humble and good sole company. Please! Do this... Side-thought: if WotC now also creates AI-players, they'll have a full circle system! No humans, no paper! Online-TTRPG, AI-DMs, AI-Players... to say it with Obelix: they are nuts, those wizards! Second Side-though: how is DnD then different from just another Videogame? Or me writing to Chatgbt: "Chatty, can we develop a fantasy story? I take the part of the hero, you react to that hero's actions! Wanna settle the scenario first?" WotC becomes ... interesting.

[@markskarr2257]

My current *_GURPS_* campaign, that I'm running has been created, extensively, through Chat GPT4. It was surprised how well it did. It's created the world and a lot of the NPCs. I can continue giving it prompts and it gives me information. It created the world, I'm running it.

[@elLooto]

I'm glad GURPS is still around. Most of my best RP memories come from the massive variety of games that system enabled. I recall when the whole reason for _The Complete Left Handed Albino Dwarfs Handbook_ series from TSR was to make D&D more classless (by paradoxically making a million new classes) to compete with the GURPS juggernaut.

[@mos5678]

Would I like to have procedually generated content that actually flows well and is on theme with proper plots in my TTRPGs?... Well yeah. I have tonnes of homemade tools and tables for generating encounters, plots and NPCs that i've made over the years but there is so much more than I just cannot simply do on my own or without significant time spent. Do I want to replace dungeon masters with AI? Hell naw. At best I want something akin to one of those choose your own adventure books but for TTRPGs.

[@williampearsall6857]

I do not understand why anyone is against ai dms. It's completely nuts to me, no one is going to force anyone to play with them.

[@xxOnigiri99]

Until the AI gets good enough for players to run games instead of allowing them to learn how to do it. DMs won't stop existing right away but they might dwindl And then Hasbro can start monetizing the use of DMs because they can, with the thought "what you gonna do? Find a human one? Learn all of this rules by yourself? Yeah sure. Pay up" or something along those lines

[@MichaelG485]

Personally, I think it could be a great tool if used along side a human GM. Imagine having an AI "listen" along with your session and give suggestions. It would be like using oracles or the Mythic Game Master Emulator, but it would be much more versatile.

[@Sorain1]

@@MichaelG485 Exactly. As a tool for enhancing and working along with human effort? It'll be useful. Being able to have it rapidly find a citation on some rule, or point out the page a table is located at? Handy to have.

[@mishratheforsaken]

@@xxOnigiri99 ... as compared to the current system where one person can buy "the product" and share it (for free) with dozens of other people? What a great bussiness model. Buy 1 get 10 free....... However could that blow up in your face? It's not like real people, require real money, to buy real goods and services. We all in the fantasy world where companies are expected to have massive losses and STILL pump out an endless stream of new product.

[@Miyuki2319]

Until Hasbro rolls out the new ZEROD&D (TM) that claims having a human DM is stealing their IP and they will sue.

[@Moonstruck_Arrow]

“And where there’s smoke…” Me: there’s mirrors! “…there’s fire” Me: oh. Right

[@stmtom2811]

Reasons I’m only playing non D&D ttrpg’s now. And there is a lot of D&D alternatives out there.

[@barbarnyak]

Or just do it solo. Trust me it’s a totally new, interesting and very creative experience! I am playing Quest using a mix of tables, oracles. Mythic GM emulator, Scarlet Heroes, Ironsworn and other sources. Totally recommend it! Give it a shot!

[@Chaosproscho]

I want an AI DM to help me DM without constantly looking up stuff my players drive themselves into.

[@tetri90]

AI assistants are a great idea, but it replace random tables not GM

[@SPQRKlio]

Lol’d many times during this. Great stuff. And I needed that to deal with this topic. My boss just sent yet another email around today about how replacing our own writers and artists with AI would be a brilliant move.

[@Wyrsa]

What would help is a tighter ruleset so players can't just pull things out of their arse that confound the DM and break the game.

[@johnlastname8752]

7:40 I always appreciate some Mighty Boosh clips. Such a hidden gem.

[@Soulessdeeds]

Problem solved. Don't buy their products.

[@Nemhyz]

One of Pathfinders biggest strength is that it's super easy to DM and books are structured very well

[@Shattered_Entertainment]

I wasnt satisfied i saw the pr wording lol

[@adamwells9352]

Fifth edition is specifically designed (to minimally exaggerate) so that the players only need to know how to roll a die, and then the DM will tell them what happens. Therefore the DM has become a position that has to have encyclopedic understanding. If there is a shortage of DMs, this is why. It's the unintended consequence of reducing the bar to entry for players. But while AI can easily know all that stuff, it's going to suck (at least in the near term) at coming up with the "cool" results that have become the major draw for players who have no interest in physics simulations. So I'd predict that they will try AI DMs, and then it will drive away the players who mostly play for the tinsel. They'll go play videogames, which do that part better anyway. (Kind of the same problem 4th ed had.) The good news, in my mind, is that it is impossible to monetize the true idea of RPGs, so it will always mostly affect dabblers.

[@crapstirrer]

We pretty much approved their pardon when they grabbed AI Jarnathan and yeeted themselves out the window.

[@jimmysmith2249]

The "dm crisis" is actually a problem with selfish people. If your group does not have a gm, then step up and do it. Don't whine and bitch about it being "too much work", because it has ALWAYS required work. Sack up, do the work, and run games. I've been the gm for over 20 years due to there not being another person willing to do the job, and it is actually rewarding when you do the work. I think the real issue is piss-poor players who screw over their gm by being needlessly difficult to manage. If your gm is not willing to run games for you, then the issue is likely you.

[@evilbarrels2506]

Part of the problem is Wizards setting the standards so high, their official rules say you need to make an entirely homebrew world complete with its own pantheon of gods before you start your first session. There was never a DM shortage before Wizards stopped prioritizing content to help DMs run games in favour of making increasingly broken options for players. These days I play basically everything except 5e, and there's no shortage of GMs in any other TTRPG community I can name. I don't think this is an issue with selfish players, in my mind this is absolutely an issue of the first-party DM tools and advice being absolute dogshit, I know of a bunch of people who wanted to DM, but ran into that and decided against it; I've never met someone do that if they started with literally any other game with advice on how to run it included.

[@soupermanchesse9508]

I so agree the only reason that people think that being a DM is hard is because the most people who talk about DMing are players who use it as an excuse to never dm and burnt-out forever DMs. so the real problem is that not enough tables have a healthy system where people take turns being the DM. Selfish players who will do anything to avoid DMing started a fire and now that Hasbro is fanning the flames.

[@Diarmuhnd]

I did that when our GM got busy with RL stuff. I had fun watching some of them survive the horrors i threw at them. ^^

[@DanteTCW]

There is an additional quirk top this, the DM support for 5e is very...how to put it diplomatically...lacklustre. They have a system for building encounters that eh...doesn't work, a revision that works...a little bit. A way to rank monsters that seems to be generated via dice rolls, only real support for combat, not for mechanics for exploration o0r small mnechanics to add to social encounters to spice them up. Unless you used 3rd party books the main advise seems to be "wing it!" and that ain't easy when you are new to the spot behind the screen. Now personally, I love GM-ing, 5e with its (as I see it) overpowered and overinflated (in numbers) player facing options is a slog to GM, but apart from 5e, I love GM-ing.

[@takethetacov2]

A.I. is very cool and I hope wizards release a A.I. DM, I'll try it out. Giving people more options on how they play is good, if a group of friends has no one who wants to DM why not let an A.I. do it? Because it isn't as creative as a human? That is a gross underestimation of what A.I. is capable of and more importantly, who cares? As long as the people using the tool are having fun. An A.I. DM doesn't need to be better then a Human DM to have a use case.

[@teamtriptonite7445]

It is not too hard. We have just developed a society that wants everything done for them, without putting anything in themselves.

[@boxerboss5284]

Tasha's ruined 5e

[@acheron1872]

I’ve seen enough DougDoug vids to see what AI can not do, it’s really limited and shows how janky it can truly be.