Noita Plicate Spells Are Secretly Overpowered

[@nerocapro4319]

we bathe in wurm blood tonight!

[@Ishkagal]

Now the devs are gonna nerf them again, SMH, thanks old man. Daily Request for more Death montages.

[@sgmvideos5175]

would make them basically useless...

[@nmmeswey3584]

If they havent nerfed the negative weakness exploit so far, theyre not gonna nerf this edit: this shit was nerfed

[@spamcolector]

@@nmmeswey3584as I know they did. now it's up to 0 but not negative

[@nonenothingnull]

WE DEMAND MORE DED MONTAGES

[@musicaccount3340]

@@spamcolectorso you can still become completely immune to projectiles?

[@meedrowh1809]

The chance for 5 Worms in a row to drop a heart is 3.125% Neat. Time to start using the -plicates spells for real.

[@yaksher]

Yeah, but getting no hearts 5 times in a row would have been equally noteworthy, so the chance of an event that he would have cared about is 6.25% lol

[@meedrowh1809]

@@yaksher True, but when this was happening, Dunk was perplexed because he thought that somehow, the worms would *always* drop hearts when spawned from the -plicate spell. At least, that's the vibe I got from him.

[@yaksher]

@@meedrowh1809 I don't think so, I'm pretty sure he was just a little surprised that it kept dropping-now if the worms had not dropped any hearts, that would be been more noteworthy because he would have thought it was broken.

[@RedRiotRoss]

Ive definitely had a couple wand builds that required missing the mana cost of stuff, like not casting omega because of mana cost limitation but and using a or gamma to use it cheaply without a recharge apell

[@RedRiotRoss]

Still tho this is neato info for how they consume charges

[@ForrestRanus]

Don’t worry about boring KZbin, a lot of people are starving for long content. Keep doing your thing!

[@TheFerociousWolf]

dont worry about us getting worn out here on youtube. honestly id like more vods getting uploaded. but i do get wanting to keep your yt higher quality so mby upload them on the dunk or trash channel. personally really enjoyed the 100% run

[@Ko0bEy]

Great Video! Small correction: -plicates will only copy spells of type "projectile" or "static projectile", not Matter Eater for example.

[@dutchthenightmonkey3457]

He didn’t explain this, but when a limited modifier (such as matter eater) interacts with a utility spell type it doesn’t get used, I’m not entirely sure what happens in this whether it does get used because it gets applied to the duplicated projectile, or it doesn’t because it counts as going toward a utility

[@Ko0bEy]

@@dutchthenightmonkey3457 Good point you are raising. i should clarify how this works: plicate -> Matter Eater -> spark bolt here, plicate ignores matter eater (since its not a projectile). this will spend charges of matter eater. Matter Eater -> plicate -> spark bolt assuming we dont have mana for all the spark bolts, the original spark bolt is never cast, matter eater has no projectiles in the same cast, and therefore spends NO charges.

[@RailgunPercent]

!!!!BUDGET GREEKS!!!!

[@TheAbsoluteWorst2021]

I am brand new to Noita and freshly addicted. I greatly appreciate the content and crave vidoes about the intricate nuances of spells like this. Learned a ton from your chainsaw and spell wrapping vids. Keep em comin!

[@swanswanswan]

New dunk vid on a Friday, it's a good day.

[@Boamere]

I last played noita in january of 2023 but I still watch every single noita vid from you and fury

[@spilledsoju03]

What you waiting on😂

[@Boamere]

@@spilledsoju03 nothing, interested in the game and secrets but find playing it a bit tiring lol

[@keol9920]

same, game gets pretty stale after discovering secrets and being able to 11-orb, but that's still a good 100h or so of a great game

[@RossPfeiffer]

yeah, that combined with a heart mage would be insane

[@AcidArmy_]

What’s this got to do with a heart mage

[@wyrdplae8586]

@@AcidArmy_ There is a trick that can be done with the heart mage to cause 1 heart to give you many thousands of HP. The hardest part of which is normally getting the heart mage to be near where the heart is. But with this you could do it any time you find a heart mage, and you could repeat it many times.

[@AcidArmy_]

@@wyrdplae8586 well yeah. I guess I meant why a heart mage when this is a spell and there are already a billion ways to get OP

[@averagelithuanian]

@@AcidArmy_so imagine you have like 1000 hp and get set to 1 hp by the heart wizard, then you pick up a heart and let the effect run out, you now have 25000 hp, pretty simple, right?

[@AcidArmy_]

@@averagelithuanian …I’ve got 500 hours I don’t need this explained to me, I was just asking if these two great ways to get OP somehow had a closer connection than I assumed

[@person9473]

you know its a good day when there's a new dunk or slam video out. Got my first sun quest done thanks to you!

[@afrid967]

My sun is gone after i follow this into cheese moon in heaven. Idk why

[@iSOBigD]

Man I swear every time I watch one of your videos it's like we're playing different games. There are so many things I would have never figured out just by playing. It's crazy how much depth this little pixelated game has.

[@j2k-]

new to noita and the channel, love your content! you explain everything like you're our big brother

[@odo324]

Thanks Dunk! Been following your' explanation videos since I started delving deeper into Noita. The spells are confusing ~ Thank you so much for these!

[@frogfrog_4]

I personally don't care about 'boring' runs, I would watch any runs, and if it's any challange run it's just a bonus. Even just unedited twitch vods are cool for me, and looking at comments, others share that view :D

[@WhyNot-gw1xq]

Agreed love the ranting, always open to more notia knowledge! The Long runs are nice

[@Oonyoon]

honestly man more vids like this talking about more spells in detail and combos would be great. obviously new players can learn but this really helps speed up that process cuz me personally dying over and over and not really understanding these spells sucks a lot. like im not dumb but sometimes just not as creative or innovative to think of these combos myself

[@1lomi901]

That's very very nice to know ! Thanks sweaty man

[@xBrillow]

You could NEVER bore us Dunk, i appreciate that youre always worried that your runs are too boring but honestly man Id watch anything you put up. Love you bro!

[@afrid967]

I saw that spells in my run. Nice to know what i can do with that in future

[@teremleonheart3776]

The true meta-progression.

[@afrid967]

@@teremleonheart3776 mind meta-progresstion

[@michael2636]

Thanks for the info! I just picked up a duplicate spell on my current run and I'm adding it to a wand with giga black hole. Now i know to switch that setup to a weaker (less mana) wand instead

[@psyantologist]

Thanks, dude! Highly appreciate your break-downs :) congrats on the challenge run, by the way!

[@Tempus62]

the fact it uses the plicate charge FIRST of what its plicating, I 100% do think it is in fact intentional because that would be an incredible oversight otherwise lmao

[@niyo919]

Man I wish the gg wiki would put a section to explain how this works because I forget how it works every single time I want to do it.

[@pudrig5543]

good advice very appreciated I had been trying to beat alki & unlock greek spells for literally 4 years, did it this week, now any time I get a decent seed I take the gold biome then go to the shop in zone 2 of the work and get greek spells most times. Or from hiisi hourglass, I think unlocking greek spells is pretty big personally

[@Majorchug]

Love the noit. Thanks so much for the wisdom Dunk!

[@qedsoku849]

Bout to Plicate my health pool with this one, didn't know about any of this before the video.

[@MaximusFPV]

Not sure if this is known yet but multicasting this trick with a wand refresh seems to negate the cost of both the “plicate” and the matosade, so you get infinite charges if both without the perk. Just spent 20min farming hearts this way before I hoped off for the day but I cast it at least 50 times and it’s still at 20 charges for the 5-plicate (whatever the name is) and 2 for matosade.

[@Deado]

You could easily try to get a ton of hearts in the same area and bring them down to a Master Of Wounding (Heart Mage) to get a ton of pre-Kolmi HP - would be a really good starting point and a pretty easy thing to do with a tiny bath of ambrosia.

[@xn85d2]

It's doable, sure, but probably more of a pain in the butt than you think. You'd have to find one of these rare spells, and find the materials to kill bridge boss, and have a good way to kill worms fast, have found ambrosia, and happen to find a heart mage early enough in the run for this to even matter. If you can pull it off if it's still worth it, but the amount of times I just couldn't find ambrosia at all in a run makes me a bit skeptical how often this can be used. If you kill Alchemist boss you're almost to parallel worlds already (just need black holes and wand heals) and once you're at parallel worlds your HP becomes more than you normally need very quickly.

[@Deado]

@xn85d2 tru, but I think since u can find the spell after beating pit boss first time, and since he's easy to kill w spark trigger + plasma/death cross, it wouldn't be terrible. Freeze is almost always found early and Ambrosia is pretty much optional, tho I know how it feels struggling to get any pre-alch

[@quivergod8423]

​@@xn85d2 Ehh not too difficult, but its very tedious tbh You can solve most of these problems by the time you cleared Jungle & have wand editing The hardest part is finding a plicate spell *at all* cuz they kinda rare.

[@xn85d2]

Well I literally just had a run where I could do the Matosade plus Plicate spell trick, but it was only after getting to the final HM and with no heart mage trick. The extra HP was very helpful even without being crazy doubled.

[@gregschwartz4017]

I appreciate the KZbin stuff. I'd love to watch Twitch more often, but I'm East coast, and staying up till 4 am gets ugly.

[@maito1794]

He wasn't lying, it took him 3h

[@jackbenoit9546]

Thank you, I was sad not to use those nice purple spells but now I will !

[@GoneDee]

I love the ranting bro ty for the videos

[@eastterminal2246]

Oh the matosade trick is so handy!

[@seandavidson]

This makes sense. My guess is, the stack has to cast the copies of the original first before the last instance of the spell. If you cast the original first, you technically don't have the spell to copy anymore. That's the way I think about it.

[@patatedouceyaim1407]

Yo man sad I’m only getting into this game now, looks like your streams and shit were dope af. Killer vids man

[@schnitzel_rada7605]

A bastion of the Noita community! Thanks again Chase. I've walked past these spells a bunch.

[@showjaymayhem]

That worm heart farm seems OP Thanks

[@DushanMandic]

I only watch on youtube since your twitch streams are so late for me, but thanks for posting this. I'll try it out. I don't know how much work it is, but if you had the time you could just post the twitch vods here. I have been watching all of your old(er) videos while I've been at work and there are some great nuggets of info there.

[@BennettWelch-giant.]

Please do an extended version of this I want all the knowledge!

[@dpcxx]

As a programmer I can see it totally comes from how the spell was implemented and was probably never intended. :D . The spell charge on the target spell is decremented after the last copy of it is cast. And it just doesn't happen if the last copy couldn't happen.

[@apgamer4053]

did they patch this im on the release so not the beta 6-7-2024 useing a wand that has 160 max mana 1 cast set up like this (giant spitter with timer 45mana - yiplacate 40mana -matosada 225mana) doing this uses 1 charge of the yiplaceat and burns out of mana... if i use a wand that has 800 max it uses a charge of yiplacate and matosada summons 1 worm that can drop a heart........ after quick testing i did figure it out you have to pinpoint the mana .... yiplacate casts 2 copys if you want the effect to go off you need enough mana to trigger atleast 1 of the copys BUT NOT MORE or it will use a charge from the copyed spell example (same setup but with a wand that has 310>535)

[@hamishfox]

Info starts at 3:25

[@shamwhoa]

Hi I'll have a whopper with fries and a coke, thanks king 👑

[@zachmaw]

This is the first time I've ever watched a video without realizing fifteen minutes had gone by before it was pointed out to me...

[@vicenteperez2136]

this would be pretty useful early game before alchemist if you find one of these basically you can save the spell refreshes in the holy mountains so most things you can't get to early game is possible if you have one of these good shit who ever found that out also dunk if you see this please post more content on here i binge all of it even if its from the streams your the only guy i can watch without major spoilers to puzzles most of the time like fury

[@kylonhollier3805]

dunk really cooked with this one..

[@mementomori7160]

I'm randomly coming back to this vid, the comment about the circle of vigour, I got it so much more often than healing bolts at first but now I can't find it at all even in the wandmart, so weird

[@orue5499]

i havent ever seen these iplicate modifiers

[@mike-uj3uu]

worrying about "overwhelming us with content" lol, I'm pretty sure you should just upload ALL your future vods to the DunkOrTrash channel, even the random games, i enjoy your vids and ramblings with chat, I'm just not the biggest fan of twitch, not like youtube is much better... dont be so critical of the trash channel, feed us

[@Pennycilin3]

I like the idea of -plicate spells as an intermediary spell for greek spells, but the interaction with matosade is definitely broken.

[@EstanBulLoFre]

Apparently there's a Noita PVP tournament going on and would love to see you take a swing at it

[@jcmc1111]

You could talk about this game for 100 hours and I will listen to it. I feel this content is more engaging to me because you're constantly shooting out information and keep it exciting as you go from simple to more complicated stuff. In comparison with gameplay footage, that bores me a lot quicker than this, since there are moments of stagnation before you move on to the next goal, and you get the deal but still, gameplay content is good to watch, it just depends on how my day has been and what I'm doing at the moment.

[@772thugable]

i subbed to dunk or trash when i found out there was 40 hrs of footage on there

[@theycallmeJacko]

I knew someone would make this seemingly underwhelming spell OP somehow. Not surprised you were to be the one to do it.

[@aetrig]

I haven't tested it myself so i can't be 100% sure here! From your video it seems that if there is not enough mana to cast it fully it casts as many copies as it can without consuming the charge of the spell it's copying (Only the iplicate spell charge). That's why Heplicate + Black Hole casted 2 black holes in Iplicate pattern while on wand with 600 mana (130 for Heplicate, 360 for 2 black holes gives us 490, 110 left not enough for another black hole). It immediately screams to be abused to have a lot of charges (or infinite with unlimited spells) of a spell while also casting 5 copies of it at the same time (with Heplicate and careful manage of mana). Combining this with Matosade (and maybe some divide by I am not sure how this would combine here) may make a completely insane health farm. Edit: Did a little bit of testing, Matosade does not work, it always spawns only 1 worm, but the mechanic is there. Wand with 1030 max mana Heplicate and black does indeed cast 5 black holes without consuming black hole charge (in a pentagonal pattern). I don't know if there is some huge use for that (since Matosade does not work) but maybe someone will find a spell that works very well with it.

[@xn85d2]

What do you mean when you say Matosade doesn't work? Wouldn't a similar Helpicate setup spawn 4 worms with that wand?

[@aetrig]

@@xn85d2 That's what i thought would happen too, but it just did not work for me for some reason and only spawned a singular worm

[@xn85d2]

@@aetrig Hmm, interesting. I'll have to check it out.

[@user-ox4ii2bw6x]

Trying it out on spell labs, it's consuming both the plicate charge and the black hole charge.

[@yehusinede9913]

he did it

[@thelostsoul9446]

bro hit the 1 in 32 in the plicate tutorial, nice

[@simpson6700]

i'm wouldn't be surprised if this gets nerved or removed.

[@Blue-3-6-3-5]

These are just free samples of the greek letter spells

[@greatnotch360]

Dang, I skipped these a couple of times even tho wanted to try it. Now I know, ty

[@Lambocoon]

please overwhelm me with noita content

[@varethedemon]

I feel this would be easy to nerf for early game, just make the first copy of the spell consume the charge instead of last, and only give copies for each that is successfully paid for, so if you are 50 mana short of the last black hole, it casts one less, if you don't have mana for any, it doesn't consume a charge, but casts none and consumes a peplicate.

[@GloomRng]

Watched the video, next run found the spells, 2000 health, life is good , got complacent , no fire immunity , ranoutofwater.jpg, dead.

[@Blackmuhahah]

more runs!!! just random runs, as far as I'm concerned you can even leave in twitch sounds... worste case mute the video sound when they take over...

[@HananeMeow]

I only watch you from KZbin ❤ Please make more nice content like this 👌👍

[@AWESOMO5]

Please make a video explaining how the "Requirement" spells work, and maybe the Divide By

[@awildaackison6072]

The only circle of vigor I have found after 1,000 runs was an always cast on a wand it carried me very far

[@Chatisthisrealquestionmark]

mush love Dunk. best noita player ever.

[@ilovehelldivers5317]

I was starting to think we were left out :>

[@jaakarimiquel8473]

decades from now we will have scholars with grey beards still researching Noita spells

[@uugabuuga7450]

I am currently in a run wondering if I should get the unlimited spells perk and I think you just answered my question :)

[@drradzig81]

Overwhelm us with content? What do you mean!? GIMME MOREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!

[@Kalightortaio]

Bored of Noita videos? Never!

[@MRProgressor]

Is this patched already? Just tried to save charges with a BH with timer, but no BH fired. Might be missing some specifics.

[@mushednoiseman]

Yeah I was struggling with this too but eventually figured it out. Essentially you need a wand that can cast both the plicate and the spell copied by the plicate, for example you may be trying to cast an iplicate with a black hole after it. If you have less than 40+180 mana in this case then you don't have enough mana to cast the iplicate and the copy of the blackhole. Then if you have above or equal to 40+180 mana and less than 40+180+180 mana you can cast the copy of the blackhole but not the actual blackhole. Then as I'm sure is pretty simple in comparison, if the mana is above 40+180+180 then you have casted the iplicate, the copy for the iplicate, and the blackhole therefore using a cast of the blackhole alongside the cast of the iplicate. Hope this helps because I was struggling for a hot minute with this, genuinely leaving me stumped until I realised how stupid I was seeing that dunk literally showed it working like this in the video.

[@Cain-v1x]

can you make a video about pollen looping? its confusing and your videos always help me

[@TheRoysar]

This old man has somehow mult-iplicated his age many times over

[@spamcolector]

Dunk, I kindly request you for a tut for the advanced wand building(div10, S2P/G2P… requirements, etc.) there is not much on the wiki and in KZbin.

[@BF1_enthusiast]

Amazing video as always, gigachad. Yeah that's pretty OP😂

[@juangreen8194]

TYVM I'll never overlook plicate spells again.

[@HelciusCabral]

Curious if that trick would allow you to cast a hugely mana intensive spell (many dmg+ or whatever) even though the wand didn't have the mana capacity

[@botno69420]

Finnish is so hard with all those ä's and ö's... Also here we have this spell called mätosade.

[@haroldbalzac6336]

it didnt work for me. Got a quplicate spell and put it on a wand with 180 mana. I was trying to copy a circle of vigor spell. 80*4 plus 90=410. dont know what happened.

[@benjaminmeriwether9165]

Not to mention setting this up next to a heart wizard

[@Nemesis0405]

Finally another chain saw wrapping vid.... oh wait.

[@swino4ka]

Limited Greek letters?

[@kraotik570]

They are not secretly OP, they are obviously OP

[@nathanpetrich7309]

He says it is a secret because he only recently found out xD

[@xn85d2]

It is not obvious that you preserve charges by deliberately running out of mana and that you can also use that to manipulate the formation of the spells being cast. And I don't think you'd immediately assume that it casts the related projectile of Matosade instead of Matosade itself either.

[@musicaccount3340]

It's not obvious to put them on a wand that lacks mana. I would expect them to either not work or still consume charges. This feels like a bug

[@melonenlord2723]

@@musicaccount3340 Yes, it's most likely a bug, but when they fix this, then they are barely useful. Most stuff you dont want to spread in all directions. Only good for duplicate static projectiles abd naybe a few more things.

[@microbrain9285]

dunk, does freeze liquid perk is best way to dodge polymorphine?

[@MrKaftpaket]

Found a yplicate while watching this video lmao, maybe first god run with Matosade?!

[@mitaro525]

That's cool and all but can you explain chainsaw wrapping?

[@artimus4198]

Great to know that’s super useful

[@TheOnlyMiolli]

Do this during the heart mage trick.

[@tiko-]

Thanks for the tip. IMO they should just make it not use charges of the 2nd spell, mana thing feels like a bug. I also feel like this is a little less cheesy than using the blood mages so I hope they don't fix the Matosade thing

[@michaelleue7594]

how is infinite hearts with 2 spells less cheesy than heart mages that can only be done once per run?

[@tiko-]

@@michaelleue7594 additive vs multiplicative, you can get insanely high HP with the heart mage trick that would take a long time to grind with the matosade trick. but they are both cheesy if we're being real. combining them would be insane

[@HarryvandeSunweb]

@@michaelleue7594 its not infinite and heart mages give way more

[@sitrex8459]

@@michaelleue7594 It's only infinite if you have unlimited spells perk though, and also you do have to kill bridge boss for matosade. Heart mage cheese can be done infinite times too, requires no spells or perks, and it gives ridiculously more health than plicate spell matosade. Both have their risks and rewards but to me, heart mage cheese is much more broken, not that I want them to fix it.

[@michaelleue7594]

@@sitrex8459 I dunno, I feel like if you can get to the point where heart mages even start appearing, you're already pretty much in good shape to do whatever. The ability to kill the bridge boss is a much lower threshold, since all you need is a single plasma spell and a trigger. The earliest place you might find a heart mage is magical temple by the snowy depths, and that's a crapshoot. You can only reliably find them by the jungle.

[@Tezca-Coatl]

this is obviously not intended xD i guess it just fucks up calculating because the duplication is checked for first and then checks for mana and uses a charge from the duplicate but didnt have enough to fire the second so the first is technically "free" :p

[@oneoranota]

No, it does what it does. It's a modifier that cast extra spells. You have to pay for them. This is one of the least broken interaction in Noita.

[@Tezca-Coatl]

@@oneoranota excellent explanation xd

[@Tezca-Coatl]

@@oneoranota it does indeed do what it do lol

[@Zortan12]

Thanks Dunk

[@TapEoka1]

the content creator luck is wild with the hearts..

[@dekavi]

I guess the devs are not gonna nerf this, the method is pretty complicated, actually it's probably will be easier to farm hp with th heart wizards in the jungle or anywhere else.

[@TimeDoggo]

Really useful advice.