Dunson brothers react to..The Harsh Truth About the GOAT Debate(MOOKIE IS GETTING MAD LOL)

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[@mitchand9]

I didn't know there was a debate. In 13 seasons MJ achieved more than Lebron who is up to his 19th season and is still chasing MJs records.

[@The.raplounge]

The thing is lebron can only be blamed for 2 finals loses 2011 and 2014, look at it this way if bill,Jordan,Kobe,Larry,wilt,magic,Duncan and Kareem were in the same circumstances lebron was in the 07,15,17, and 18 finals would they have won?No they wouldn't because GSW was a super team from 16-18,kyrie and love got in injured in 2015,and in 07 he had 0 help and also had no help from 16-18

[@Hesoyam31]

@@The.raplounge Stop with the excuses. Lebron has the best Chance to have the greatest super team ever with the miami heat with their big-three, even better than curry's golden state with durant and Jordan's bulls but lebron didn't deliver. Imagine giving Jordan or Curry a star center and a star forward for a big-three, they'd be winning more rings. And give credit to Ray Allen's clutch 3 point and Kyrie's clutch 3 on curry that 2 rings.

[@rortys.kierkegaard9980]

Nobody says someone’s the ‘Lebron of his sport’… when describing someone as best, they say they’re the ‘Jordan of his sport’

[@dunsonhouse]

Appreciate the comment family

[@archieleonard4299]

The part when he said after Jordan’s 6 rings and Chicago breaking up, if he goes to another team he would be ring chasing. My question is haven’t LeBron been ring chasing most his career going from team to team.

[@imaeddy]

Jordan’s highlights you see him doing different acrobatic dunks and layups and always on two or three defenders and getting touched hard but Lebrons highlights all look the same with no one trying to stop him .

[@Rubrick23.]

All his career. He never won a ring without the chase

[@Rubrick23.]

@vintageMJ#23GOATfan No its pure lazy.

[@cursin]

EXactly.And had stacked super teams

[@ronniecollins7313]

Ok here is some other facts that a lot people choose to over look in Jordan 13 seasons 9 of those seasons help played all 82 games compared to James only playing 82 games in one of his 19 so far so that puts a lot of wear and tear on the body

[@Trance18]

sometimes ppl use that longevity argument trying to make Lebron at the same status as MJ , but they forget that MJ retired at the peak of his power after a 3-peat and he could've added more rings , more points , in fact, if he cared about numbers he would've broken Kareems record before he retired but he was all about winning and even after the 1998 season he could've added more numbers but as we saw in the last dance he was forced to retire and he refused to play without Phil .All this and still Lebron is chasing Mj's shadow and numbers that MJ achieved in less seasons and no doubt the most competetive era of NBA history, that shows you how great Mj was and that not only Lebron is not in the debate but no one, and actually if anyone has the resume to be compared to MJ, that is Kareem who easily has every argument to eclipse lebron on this debate but the media has pushed Lebron's narrative because it is more interesting .

[@matteoughetti1320]

He wasn’t in his prime, he was start to decline and his efficiency and stats in the last 3 rings show it.

[@Trance18]

@@matteoughetti1320 yeah , right he was in decline that after retirment he cameback and won 3 more rings , MVps and 3 scoring titles , yes he was in decline you're right haha

[@matteoughetti1320]

@@Trance18 no, I talk about the last three rings. 4th,5th and 6th rings his stats start to goes down in efficiency

[@Trance18]

@@matteoughetti1320 that was not what I said in my comment , i don't know why you are making seem that way , I talked about him retiring after the 93 season so that 94& 95 season MJ besides winning more Rings which is so logical , he would've added more points and stats to his resume , but Mj never ared about stats he cared about winning and when he cameback what he did from 95 to 98 is a dream for any other player and if a player achieved those numbers in his career he would be considered among the best

[@dewaynephillips823]

@@Trance18 Facts!!

[@adamtesta2668]

Don’t know about you guys but my GOAT would never shoot below 75% free throws for career. Automatic disqualification. It makes you a liability *especially someone who brings the ball up. Even more important at the end of close games. Free throws are the essential fundamental every player has to learn. Oh, and my GOAT would never be outperformed in the finals by a Jason Terry. The. Whole. Series.

[@lirpa2300]

Jason Terry and JJ Barea....UNACCEPTABLE. And Wade and Bosh was balling in that series. Miami had ZERO business losing that Finals. I still think LeBron played so poorly to ensure Miami wouldn't win so Wade wouldn't get that Finals MVP and LeBron could try to get Spolestra fired and have Pat Riley coach. Thankfully, Pat Riley stepped in and told LeBron Spolestra was staying. LeBron is the greatest when it comes to getting coaches fired and having teammates traded...SMH!!!!

[@ducatister3674]

This debate between MJ and LeBron is media inspired and manipulated. The only only reason LeBron is in the conversation is because the NBA needed a new face and he has marketing and social media behind him. Being the GOAT isn't just about numbers and accolades. Muhammad Ali lost fights but is still considered the Greatest of All Time. Even though there was Tyson. It is the lore, the worldwide acknowledgement, the Brand, the shoes. MJ made the NBA into an international sensation. He is the reason why we have so many Euro players in the league now. Everyone wanted to be like Mike. There was no debate about who was the greatest player in the league when he played. All of the greats of his time said it was his league. The people would stop what they were doing all over the world to catch Bulls games live, on delay, or recorded. Keep it real... If you're going to A Black Tie Affair.... There is only one brand of sports apparel, shoes, you can wear, because it denotes excellence. LeBron will never have the affect on the NBA, society, or the world that MJ did. Like Highroller said 75% of the people already proclaim that Jordan is the GOAT and the man hasn't played basketball for 20 years. Great video, but there is no real debate, only a manufactured one. LeBron should have shot for Magic or Bird level and then people wouldn't begrudge his greatness. And don't forget Mike is 9-0 in Championship games. He won an NCAA Championship ang two Olympic game Gold Medal Championships. Simply put he has always won on the biggest stage.

[@tonysanders1299]

@CWhite Your Comments Was Goat Tier!! The Greatest Way To Sum It All Up

[@GUYIN96706]

facts!

[@Arubapower13]

I live in Aruba..and we were recording the games on VHS via WGN channel 🤣🤣 Jordan is the goat..even the pope wanted to see him play

[@KidsJavo2088]

I agree with you completely and I will add something: I agree with one point of this video, it's not that MJ it's going to be the GOAT no matter what, there should be some metrics that could be objectively precise to proclaim who is the GOAT. BUT what I don't agree with the person of this video is that the metric is related with longevity, he states on the video that is more than that, but he is selling smoke, he is talking about longevity in general terms, and for me that's the point, todays tech, it's so incredible that is possible that in some years the level of excellence of most of the people that participates in profesional sports would be as Lebron, so that is not talking about the abilities of the player, but the abilities of humanity and science; that is one truth that we need to understand, I really believe this, so, for me, it's not a good point. Now, with that said, what is the objective rating to observe then? for me, it's the opposite, how much you can do in lesser time than Jordan, it's pretty obvious to me, if someone could do most of the things that Jordan did (and more) in the same time or less, that is showing us a level of excellence so great that could surpass what MJ did while he was at his peak; so, it's never going to be a matter of longevity, but the opposite, or even more, imagine someone that could do must of the things that Jordan did (may be some lesser stats, as rings, or MVP's awards or blocks or things like that, but to came really close) and still be like Lebron, with performing and delivering results after 19 seasons, that, would be the new GOAT, and I think that no one could say anything against that, because of his impact on the game, the titles and accolades and the longevity, of course I think Lebron get pretty close, but at the end of the day, he could did it, let's be real, NBA titles, scoring titles, All defensive team titles and other things like that, he just get so close, but he didn't do it at the end (and in some things he didn't even get close), for me that is the REAL Harsh Truth About the GOAT Debate that most of the people can't accept, because that sounds all most impossible, but... yeah! that's the whole thing of being the GOAT! it's obvious that is not going to be something that can be changing every 5 years, or that we are going to put lower standards so more people can get to this point, that is just non sensical! it MUST to be the opposite, a group of parameters that are really hard, that seems almost impossible, because we are talking about the GREAT PLAYER OF ALL TIME, not only of 2000's period of basketball or the 3000's or the 1900's, it's of ALL TIME. So, I really feel exhausted of this conversation always driven by the media and/or by people to feel that they are watching the most important thing on history, it's just so absurd, how the parameters get lowered so you can introduce false chances to this debate.

[@user-kr6tb3ut9w]

Smart words

[@robertoh.20]

longevity doesn't equal best..........skills = best, last time i checked, MJ didn't need to pair up with Patrick Ewing or Charles Barkley or reggie miller or Clyde Drexler just to get a championship

[@The.raplounge]

So we acting like he didn't need scotty pippen to win a championship

[@scottjarrells8339]

Plus Jordan won his 3 consecutive and then came back and won 3 more with the same team. If he'd played the 2 years he took off he would have 8 rings. That's just my opinion

[@chris20874]

And if Jordan's dad wasn't murdered he would of had 8 championships.

[@soramirez5473]

Longevity wise? well Kareem played into his 40s and didnt load manage.. Lebron is not a complete athlete so his longevity is hollow because he takes defensive plays and games off.. he actually takes entire chunks of seasons off, because if his team is out of it, he is not playing to the end. I guess the younger gen value that.

[@dunsonhouse]

Thank you for the comment appreciate you family

[@knowjc35]

Yes, that's why Kareem is still #2, LeBron is top 5

[@soramirez5473]

@@knowjc35 for me, If im starting a team, Kareem is 3rd, after Jordan and Bird.. I hate to say it, but Brony is 4th for me (cuz with Jordan, Bird and Kareem, he will be EXPECTED to perform EVERY PLAY).. 5th, for my STARTING 5 would be like either Magic, KD or Pippen. I Magic or Lebron or even Pippen can be my PG, and with Birds 7 assists and Jordans 5, we more than good on the ball movement..

[@J972M]

The longevity argument for Lebron is about *sustained* excellence. Kareem in yr 19 was *NOT* Kareem. He was giving you 14 6 and just under 2 ast. Lebron in yr 19 gave you 30 8 and 6! How are we trying to ignore that? I don't know what basketball you were watching but it's not like Kareem hussled on every play. He absolutely took time off in the game a *lot* . This is coming from someone who has been a fan of Kareem since his UCLA days

[@soramirez5473]

@@J972M sustained excellence at the EXPENSE of playing EVERY GAME AND EVERY POSSESSION.. lebron LOAD manages, even DURING THE GAME.. the arguement for lebron's longevity is overated..

[@onenine73_]

Most of Lebron's stats advantage are simply down to longevity but for a GOAT debate, when you factor in all aspects of a players game just like all the other all time greats, Lebron also falls short of being on MJ's level. Three of the four players above MJ in total points all have one thing in common, they all played 5 more year than MJ did, the 4th one on that list (Lebron) will reach that point next season. MJ is the only player in NBA history to win the scoring title, regular-season MVP, the NBA championship, Finals MVP and make the All NBA First Team and NBA All-Defensive First Team in the same season - he did that four times. In 87/88 he won the regular-season MVP, NBA scoring title, was Defensive Player of the Year, the All Star MVP, was on the All NBA First Team and NBA All-Defensive First Team whilst averaging 35PPG playing all 82 games in the season - oh he also won the slam dunk contest too. He still holds the NBA record for the highest average PPG and PER in both the regular season and playoffs in an era where the physicality was at its highest and it was much harder to score than it is today. That = GOAT.....end of

[@germainethomas3524]

I agree with you on this. It's really funny how people keep going towards the longevity of Lebron. When you think about it, Jordan would of probably have just about the same amount of seasons if he didn't go to college or retired twice.

[@mikeyj7824]

The longevity part also excludes Mike's college days.

[@The.raplounge]

The thing is lebron can only be blamed for 2 finals loses 2011 and 2014, look at it this way if bill,Jordan,Kobe,Larry,wilt,magic,Duncan and Kareem were in the same circumstances lebron was in the 07,15,17, and 18 finals would they have won?No they wouldn't because GSW was a super team from 16-18,kyrie and love got in injured in 2015,and in 07 he had 0 help and also had no help from 16-18

[@tekklunatic6067]

MJ is and always will be the GOAT

[@silentgrat5174]

I see it as this . MJ greatest , LeBron best . Same way Muhammad Ali was the greatest boxer but not the best . Impact of the past can't be replaced

[@melihsalihcatmak9599]

@@silentgrat5174 michael jordan is both goat and best since he has achieved more im less time and is better offensively and defensively

[@frankabella7222]

Because?

[@ryantromp9152]

Because lebron is not good in all category: for example defense and free throws

[@s0Lstar18]

@@frankabella7222 because the video just explained that MJ is both the BETTER player and the GREATER player. Cry about it lol

[@dominiccampbell181]

Think of it this way. It took Lebron almost seven more playing years to even come close to Jordan. He did more in less time, and watching the two play shows the clear gap between them. There is almost an entire HoF career between them.

[@ldybozz]

They don't skip over Kobe. Everyone knows or should know, its a given. That he's one of the GOATs. They're in their own league.

[@krozlyvassos3169]

Kobe is not top 3 everybody overrates him because he’s dead

[@fidelnenas8390]

Kobe copied every move and mannerism from Michael Jordan. Jordan had the competitive streak and killer mentality from childhood. Kobe stated that after his first season in the league he had to create the mamba mentality. Kobe wanted to be Michael Jordan by emulating him. But unlike Jordan, Kobe suffered a lot of injuries. Magic and Bird saved the league in the late 1970’s. Michael by the late 1980’s had elevated the league to global status. 85% percent of the player that are now retiring were Jordan fans growing up who copied his way of play whether they had the skill or athleticism or not even Lebron. No one fears Lebron like other teams and coaches feared Jordan. Jordan created hundreds of billions for the league in revenue and merchandise globally. No one ever missed a Jordan game being broadcasted. Lebron’s ego put this debate on the table. Lebron to me is not better than Jordans carbon copy, Kobe. They have watered down the rules in the league any physical contact is a foul. If you disagree on a call it’s a technical. Lebron has no loyalty to anyone but himself. He’s done nothing for his teams or teammates except leave when he couldn’t win a ring with them. Lebron now is trying to usurp the role of GM by trying to select teammates that are his friends but have no will to win. They want to win but they have not discovered the formula within all their talent to win.

[@RohanSinghal-ob7zu]

Kobe is barely top 10 Not even sure of that

[@gabrielveron2850]

We don’t judge the goats with longevity achievements but we judge them at their peak and how they contributed as leading players on their teams strictly towards winning championships … & MJ has two 3 peats with an unblemished finals record… He is just the GOAT (plain and simple)

[@michaelwhite3607]

Remember that time Jordan paired with Hakeem and Drexler and then lost in six games to Barkley while MJ averaged less than 15 ppg in the Finals and less than 10 in the fourth quarter? Yeah? Me neither.

[@sniiiperrr]

🤣

[@carmeloeverhart6377]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@roddneyharris3616]

🤣🤣😅😅

[@GraciousoneB]

A Goat is one who changes the era of the game and influence as well, also setting a standard on how you play the game, that to me is what a goat is all about Micheal fit the bill.

[@MrVvulf]

LeBron isn't even in my top 5 for GoaT. Jordan, Kobe, Bird, Kareem, Duncan. I'll take any of those guys over LeBron. For one, they were all great on both offense and defense. Defense to LeBron is something that goes around the perimeter of his property (D-Fence).

[@isboredandonline]

lmao what. Lebron was a great defender when he was young. And Kareem & Bird were never regarded as good defenders. What are you talking about

[@buchulesobayeni6445]

You definitely a hater😂🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@jca4343]

@@isboredandonline Lebron had a few good defensive years. He has 5 first team defenses in what...like 19 years. MJ has 9 first team defenses in 11 full seasons in chicago. 13 full seasons if you count his wizards years. MJ had 2 partial seasons in chicago, the year he broke his ankle and the year he came back out of retirement for 17 games. Lebron was a great defender when he wanted to be. But being a great defender is about desire and doing it on a consistent basis. Lebron didn't do that

[@bachnguyenviet4289]

Who you prefer over Lebron doesn't mean they're better than Lebron lol, that's your opinion so keep it to yourself. Facts don't care about your feelings, who's greater depends on stats and accolades, and Lebron far exceeds those guys you mention (outside of Jordan). The majority of people would take Shaq over Kareem because of his dominance, does that mean Shaq is greater than Kareem? Hell no.

[@jca4343]

@@bachnguyenviet4289 depends on what you are looking for. Those other players he names brought it every night. They didn't load manage and miss games. They never quit. They were great example of leaders and the guys you would follow. LeBron....he will quit on you. He takes games off. He doesn't give his all every games. LeBron also has a tendency to throw his teammates and coaches under the bus. Now if you are just looking at raw numbers then LeBron is up there, but when you get to the best players, the elite of the elite, you also have to look at the intangibles. That is where LeBron loses it.

[@OneCash]

I don't think Bron can get another ring the way he played this year. He stopped playing defense entirely and I don't see who he could team up with next year. Even if he did, what would that championship be worth? Michael stayed with the Bulls and never asked for a trade. Those 6 rings feel like 10 fr fr.

[@jnbmos2]

The man 37 playing damn near 40 minute's dropping 30 can't expect him to lock down too. Kawhi way younger and he hasn't played defense the same since he started having to do more on offense it's how it goes

[@questionmark8252]

@@jnbmos2 but think about this even if he drops 50 60 70 or 80 you really need to play D in order to win he dropping good numbers but a liability in the defensive end look what it gets them straight lose for the lakers and for my bets

[@jeffreycoloma864]

how about mj playing in the wizards when he was i think 40?is he a liability on D?

[@peterstark4562]

Despite being the biggest and athletic wing player in history at 6'9, 260 lbs, Lebron has never been selected in the nba all defensive team in the last EIGHT years.

[@chris20874]

Well let's see how LeBron does in the playoffs this year...oh

[@dunsonhouse]

Appreciate the comment ✊🏽

[@jrag9435]

Lebron gets too much credit for longevity…although it’s impressive…he sits out games…. Jordan didn’t load manage…if you bought a ticket or tuned into a bills game you saw Jordan…even if he was hurt or sick…every game 9 times… he did it out of respect for the fans…lbj doesn’t have that

[@dunsonhouse]

Appreciate your comment family

[@CumpasFilms]

the thing keeping Lebron for that #1 spot is his VANITY.

[@dunsonhouse]

Appreciate the comment

[@MrWacks14]

What I dont get in this conversations is they always say the players in the 80's were old when mj started winning.... Isiah was 30, magic was 32 and larry is 35... But Jordan's last championship was until he was 35. Also 6-0 is the biggest factor in the conversation because being the best means winning! Nobody has beaten MJ when in the biggest stage! C'mon guys... Stop comparing being 1st runner up multiple times is the same as winning the championship. Sports is about winning and being on the top! You cant be on the top if you are just a runner up.

[@jamesmitchell3615]

"We all know Lebron James is better than Jordan"...."Yeah in a nightmare" 🤣🤦🏾‍♂️

[@dunsonhouse]

Appreciate the comment

[@lakersrdbest]

MJ 🐐 NO DOUBT

[@darrinstefaniak]

lebum couldn't hold Kobe's jock, let alone Jordan's. They never gave up like Lebum did on his teams

[@billysoto2151]

The management forced the breakup of that team after the 6th championship..by forcing a coaching change. Why they would purposely breakup a winning team is the million dollar question. Mj came back to continue playing because of his love for the game

[@WYTUP133]

Top 3 1. MJ 2. Kobe 3. James

[@francois2683]

Don't overdo it though. Kobe isn't even a top 5 all time. 1.Jordan I can hardly prove you wrong. 2 Kareem 3. LeBron. 4. Magic. 5.Larry. 6. Tim Duncan. 7.Kobe. Kobe was superior to LeBron in 1 vs 1 but he never had LeBron's career. LeBron meets a lot more criteria than Kobe.

[@zeppelinfan9360]

Sorry but, Larry Bird is better than Lebron and it's not even close.

[@francois2683]

@@zeppelinfan9360 Sorry but that's your point of view. Whether in terms of individual accomplishment, longevity or even statistics, LeBron is clearly on top. Larry was clearly a better franchise player than LeBron and more clutch too. But it is only in terms of collective prize list that it can be discussed between LeBron and Larry🤷 I'm not even talking about longevity...

[@zeppelinfan9360]

@@francois2683 Three league MVP's in a row. Championship game on the line, Larry Bird baby!! 🎸☮️💕

[@francois2683]

@@zeppelinfan9360 I know but that in no way puts him above LeBron🤷

[@brianmonroe1673]

I hate the longevity argument for thr simple fact Jordan retired twice and came back if he played straight through we wouldn't be having this discussion although we shouldn't be having it anyway Jordan is the GOAT PERIOD the proof is in the pudding

[@brianmonroe1673]

Also if Lebron had the mentality that Jordan and Kobe had he would be the Goat but he doesn't so he's not...lol😂🤣

[@dunsonhouse]

Thank you for the comment appreciate you family

[@MrSlashblade]

Jordan retiring could have been the best thing to happen for him.

[@TheRedrich28]

Not to mention MJ says if was was chasing stats he wouldn't have retired. That's the facts

[@seanwood82]

All I know is this when Mike was playing for those 13 seasons mabe 1 season where fans other players would say he is not the best that was his first . I actually think out off LeBron 18 seasons hes been the best mate 4 off them. So if for 14 seasons off his career he hasn't been the best player in his own time how can he be the goat

[@artten5002]

The chart of "excellence" is such bull 😒 The fact that Lebron gave up playing defense and stat padded after the Allstars is just enough for to call bull. If Mj played 2-3 more years, he would've beaten Kareem's score. Even Kareem got 2nd team all defense in the tail end of his career. Mj made the wizards a top 5 defensive rating when they were bottom the year before. Saying that the bulls had Mj's interest from the start is just funny, if it were the case it wouldn't had taken thay long to win a championship. The Pistons who btw were favorite to win 91 But apparently they were already "washed" from this video even tho Zeke was 29.

[@dizzydyce4576]

I am someone who is old enough to remember watching Bird, Magic, MJ, and I was at the game when Vince Carter played his first game for Toronto. Living back in the day in Canada hockey was everything! We never missed Hockey night in Canada that was until Jordan showed up. He couldn't be stopped if he didn't want to be. In saying all this he will one day be beat and that is because he didn't go full out every game. He had some crazy games and he had some okay games. He took time off twice and with that someone will one day come along that will be his equal but wont take time off. As I see it back then most teams was afraid of Larry Bird but Bird and every player not just the teams was afraid of Jordan. I don't see that fear of any player in todays game so there isn't anyone at the moment that that will take it from him. Someone will have to take it, it's not going to be given away. Jordan at the end of his second season only playing 18 games, most Valuable Player (Bird) said Jordan is the best in the league right now and no player argued that... That was huge!

[@mobeasley8577]

What about if Mike didn't retire the 1st time in '93 and won 8 championships in a row!

[@imspyy]

The MJ gawking is fucking crazy lmao

[@dunsonhouse]

Thank you for the comment appreciate you family

[@jburnes41]

in the playoffs james avg 23 points a game. jordan avg 32 points a game. jordan never faded in the playoffs. james was nowhere to be found in the last minutes.

[@RedDevils-pv1km]

Bron’s playoff avg is actually 29 ppg, and he has been the all time leader in playoff points for years now. I still think MJ is the goat, but lebron is an absolute killer in the playoffs, where the only time he disappeared was against the mavs in 2011

[@mannyneva1760]

@@RedDevils-pv1km bruh stop it

[@RedDevils-pv1km]

@@mannyneva1760 understandable have a nice day

[@mortisxbx7625]

One thing that always is left off of the longevity topic - Jordan joined the NBA at age 22, Lebron joined at age 18. He got a good 3 or 4 more seasons added onto the beginning of his career to further pad those stats out.

[@RohanSinghal-ob7zu]

You mean Lebron came as a teen with so much hype to a trash franchise and had to make up for it Whereas Jordan had literally a support of a great franchise Lebron > Jordan to me

[@maysonstorm4956]

If it took six more seasons for LeBron to recieve some of these accolades then it is ridiculous to say that he is better than Jordan. Like mentioned in the video, most of Lebron's achievements are attributed to his longevity, having already playyed 19 seasons. Where was his standing after 13 seasons? I'll tell you. He was a great basketball player. Just another guy tugging at Superman's cape.

[@The.raplounge]

The thing is lebron can only be blamed for 2 finals loses 2011 and 2014, look at it this way if bill,Jordan,Kobe,Larry,wilt,magic,Duncan and Kareem were in the same circumstances lebron was in the 07,15,17, and 18 finals would they have won?No they wouldn't because GSW was a super team from 16-18,kyrie and love got in injured in 2015,and in 07 he had 0 help and also had no help from 16-18

[@spunterage]

How can someone who takes more than twice as long to not achieve as much ever be considered greater especially when averages, advanced metrics, and accolades say he’s not?

[@bustedrav]

Problem is that MJ is 6/6 in the finals with 6 finals mvp, and that's with 2 years playing baseball and having to play in a super strong Eastern conference against countless hall of famers.

[@kkbaby30]

I think players using "load management" can extend their careers a lot longer. Bron's missed about 160 games over his career. As far as a fire burning longer, if it isn't bright enough to bring more accolades to warm by its flame, then what good is it? The graph demonstrates the floor spacing and offensive schemes in the last 6 years. Luka, Giannis, etc. are putting up unreal overall numbers. The floor spacing is the key for a stretch Center to ball out.

[@Ape_In_His_Apex]

160? Waaay more than that

[@davidwiltshire-craine9157]

Load management is a frigging joke. Imagine telling Jordan saying I won't play for 30% of the season, what absolute rubbish. Jordan never chased rings. LeBron did come on man this is nonsense. LeBron moves more thanks a prostitute going from corner to corner. Man ran from Cleveland to Miami back to Cleveland then to LA and now he is talking about trying to play for GS. He has constantly tried to pair up with the best players to win rings. Yet this guy says Jordan chased rings 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@billwatson5400]

Longevity can't be a real argument. Any past player would have better longevity with today's technology, as well as a lack of physical play.

[@lsceo5932]

Great reaction fellas! And in my opinion as far as the question asked early in the video, it's not only the treatments and Technology of today, but you also have to take into account of the level of physicality that the players were able to play with back then. People forget, they were still playing like this in the early 2000s, but to a much lesser degree, whereas today, it is virtually nonexistent. So, you can use all of the tech you want, but in reality, the person who is taking the much lesser beating on their body will be able to last longer. Also, there was NO load management. MJ played! And he tried to play in ALL games, not some. There was no "let me take my foot off the gas until the playoffs" moments for him. He was always on GO! This too, will run up the miles on your body. In the end, I love how Bron has taken his health serious because that's exactly what MJ and Kobe did. They took care of there body just as much as Bron, but they also played more physical and damn near all the time. Regardless of the longevity stats...always keep in mind that MJ basically did all of his work in about 13 years. He missed 64 games in his 2nd season, retired in October of 93 and came back in March of 95....retired again in January 99 and signed to play for the Wizards in September of 2001. That is 4-5 years out of action. Longevity does indeed matter, but so does context. What did you do in the time you played? No matter the choice you make for the GOAT...I miss MJ and the 90's where I was a kid/teen...Kobe and the early 2000s even when I was trying to get to the league myself and got quite far hell...and soon, I will miss Bron...The Last Don. Blessings to ALL the hoopers out there! 🏀🏀🏀

[@mikenyce539]

The Longevity is NOT about The equipment... It's about The game being LESS PHYSICAL, your Body DOESN'T take the same Beating, that ERA gave you... Mike took care of his body also

[@yoR_27]

23:06 welp, he's 39 now, averaging 25/7/8 and just dropped a 36/20/12 game vs the warriors, its safe to say that he wont be out the league any time this year.

[@spanishsupafly]

Btw... the difference between LeBron and Jordan? LeBron has carved out his career as someone who has no qualms with moving from team to team and teaming up with the best players in order to overwhelm the league. Jordan, through all his shortcomings and failures early in his career, never caved to the pressure and wanted to prove himself and ultimately did, all without having to compromise himself by changing teams and recruiting the best players in the league to play with him. He didnt want to join his competition, he wanted to destroy them. Jordan is the greatest competitor of all time. LeBron is the greatest opportunist of all time.

[@GreenWolf2k]

I don't blame him since most of teams were garbage or got garbage after awhile. He left Cleveland since they weren't doing him any favors. He left the Heat when he saw a chance to bring Cleveland a ring. And he left Cleveland again to pursue a place that would be better for him and his family. Who likes to lose over and over and over again? If the Bulls didn't bother building around Jordan I 100% guarantee he would of left the team to try and win. Hell Jordan is pretty much winning incarnate. Also what James did is not special. Remember the Celtics? They were the first super team that formed in the NBA as far as I remember. James made it ok to leave your team if it was shit to join up with a team that would give you a better chance at the finals.

[@awkwardstuff5328]

If they have technology / equipment how come players today don't play 82 games

[@nanaboakye4752]

Hey @nick&mookie I got a question for y'all. so the nba seems to disrespect Gianis and always push him back but between KD and Gianis, who do you think is the best?. not skilled but the best overall like mj LeBron type.

[@jburnes41]

jordan is the one who really started players working out hard

[@marsjam4117]

Jordan was playing 36 holes of golf and smoking cigars before games. Not to mention the casinos lol

[@christopherjerdon7699]

In my opinion, the most important thing is making your teammates better to be able to win it all.

[@joweydelanota7421]

Michael didn't retire because he still couldn't play. He retired because of personal reasons. He was at the top of the game and already revere as the greatest when he first retired. He came back and validated himself as the best ever. The years he missed between he could have easily play and probably would have added 2 more championship to his resume and even thou probably would have the undefeated reputation as I believe Hakeem woukd have beat him in 95.

[@SamEVO69]

I hate hearing the longevity argument because the easiest way to poke through that argument is by saying if we are including longevity into an argument then you have to say John Stockton is the all time greatest PG that’s ever played basketball because he played how many seasons and is the all time leader in assists and steals 💯💯🤷‍♂️

[@MemphisJadon]

Can’t claim longevity and have less chips to show for. To claim that Bron is the goat with 4 chips in 19 years is just disrespecting the game of basketball. Many consider MJ the GOAT of goats compared to other sports. Bron as the goat of basketball can’t even outdo the goat of pin pong.

[@morel1796]

Why do we consider team achievements as one of the most important factors to determine an individual award? Jerry west won finals mvp losing it and lebron didnt even reach the play-ins having played a very good season this year statistically and leadership wise.

[@lirpa2300]

@Morel If you are the supposed greatest, you should have more championships than losses. Usually people who complain or try to argue that winning championships shouldn't be such a high criteria means their players have little to no championships or have LOSING FINALS RECORDS like LeBron. Also that Finals MVP to Jerry West was a fluke. It was the first Finals MVP and they didn't want to give it to Russell and that decision caused great backlash to the league which is why they never gave the award to a player on a losing team in the Finals again even though they tried to with LeBron (of course they would try with LeBron since he lost so many Finals like Jerry West....LOL) in 2015 but WISELY gave it to Iguodala who deserved the award anyway. The league knew they were wrong about giving the first Finals MVP to Jerry West over Russell, why else you think they renamed the Finals MVP award after Bill Russell and he also now presents the award?

[@morel1796]

@@lirpa2300 didnt know about the jerry west situation, more of a football (soccer for you maybe) fan, we usually consider as an important factor getting championships but its not always like that and there is a constant debate about how much should this influence, for instance ronaldo won the ballon d'or (kind of the mvp but its actually worldwide and across all of the many leagues, tournaments, world cups, etc) and he didnt play the final game, but when the team did win the tournaments match it was influencial on wether give it to him or messi who didnt win a tournament with his national team that year but for many played better all around the whole year. Thing is, ballon d'or or mvp is an individual award so why is SO important, i get that the influence on a winning team is important but i think that ita too important in basket. A player who played better than anybody during playoffs and didnt win the whole thing or played better than anybody during regular season but for any reason his team didnt qualify to playoffs is still the better player. Its seems to me as a noob basketball fan that is a bit unfair that in basket there is an understanding of the award which implies that if you dont win the ring you are not allowed by any means to be the better player, even if you were 🤔

[@archieleonard4299]

I don’t think it’s fair to other greats for the simple fact that LeBron James played with so many all stars and teams with a easier league.

[@normacherylwashington4872]

Because of time Lebron will eventually outpace MJ in stats, but the time it takes for Lebron to beat out MJ it won't matter because it took too much time!!!

[@tonyt888]

the problem wth lebron is he's doing 3 jobs at once. He is the coach, gm, and player. No one can coach Lebron because he can only play in one system, The Lebron system. Once he sits, the other players can't function properly because their offensive system is sitting on the bench. The other issue is he chooses the players he plays with. That's a gm job. The gm's job is to get the best talent available for the right amount of resources. How can you build a proper team if russell, lebron and AD eats up $120mil of your payroll. Those three eats up 74% of their entire payroll. Russell is making $44 mil this season. I bet a gm could have use that money to spend or 2-3 more players that are above average and would have a better success than russell this season. Lebron as a player is a huge defensive liability. I don't need to expand on that

[@chris20874]

6-0 and he was mvp in each. League scoring leader for all 6, all defense all 6 years, league mvp 2 of those years.

[@DaPrognosis]

He was league MVP in 4 of those championships seasons ‘91, ‘92, ‘96 and ‘98 😉. Barkely and Malone snuck in there in ‘93 and ‘97.

[@Black_metal87]

I'm with you Mookie. It means Nothing!!!

[@paullow3377]

I'm not a basketball fanatic but the general sense I get is that all other non-LBJ fans feel he's disrespected their hero by saying he's the GOAT.

[@kingjanson5058]

You gotta remember now also in Michael Jordan’s era there was no hand checking and everybody was physical and Jordan played all 40 minutes in ALL OF HIS GAMES!!! In Lebron era there’s hand-checking and you can get fouls easy and he doesn’t play ALL 40 MINUTES NOR DOES HE PLAY ALL GAMES!! Also Jordan was a assassin in the last seconds of the game if MY LIFE DEPENDED ON A GAME I CHOOSE MICHAEL cause I know he will make the game winning shot more than Lebron will. Don’t get me wrong I give respect to Lebron and his game but, tbh he can Lebrick game winning shots lol more than Jordan.

[@gregorykelm6693]

The game is not nearly as physical today. Plus lebron doesn’t play every game like Michael did

[@tomhassin9916]

my problem in the video is that he doesnt talk about the resting in this era of basketball , back in the 80's and 90's you would not sit only if you were injured

[@djfate1709]

my take is what jordan did in 12 seasons lebron is finally catching up in 18 19 seasons

[@tougeattacksid]

lmao. this past season of them not even making the playoff's says it all. Lebron is lacking

[@davidwiltshire-craine9157]

This debate has 4 players Wilt, Kareem, Mike, Kobe.

[@Rebel-eq7ul]

All I know is the Jumpman logo is on NBA jerseys rn, it’s on soccer jerseys and Football jerseys. Nuff said

[@achkifbrahim2785]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 MJ IS STILL GOAT!! HE HAS ACHIEVED MORE IN A SHORT TIME AND STILL TAKE UP EARLY TO ENJOY HIS LIFE😂😂😂

[@dunsonhouse]

Appreciate the comment

[@TheRealBangy]

In a era where you can't play defense it's gonna be several players from this era scoring over 30k points because it's so easy to score.. Check out Luka on JJ Redicks podcast on how easy it is to score here rather than in Europe..

[@imspyy]

Lebron has way better competition like why do you think he doesnt have as many rings as kobe whos top 10 compared to lebron whos top 3

[@dunsonhouse]

Thank you for the comment appreciate you family

[@ryantromp9152]

Agree because he is not the GOAT. Thus can not dominate other like MJ did

[@s0Lstar18]

The competition argument is fake news the facts are he has as many L’s as MJ has rings lol

[@tyrannicaltypomichaeltester]

If you have too play Twice as long to get garbage numbers then you are no Goat.

[@tokomiqela3878]

Black Jesus GOAT , ONE AND ONLY

[@RealtorGeorgeSellsOrlando]

Lebron is also doing these numbers and part of his sustainability is based in a different version of the NBA that promotes offensive production and protects pre-maddonas !

[@albertbrownjr1415]

The only way that LeBron should ever be mentioned as the GOAT if he led Cleveland to 10 consecutive championships thru the draft and trades, 11 scoring titles, two DPOY awards, won 3 slam dunk contests, 10 NBA Finals MVPs, 6 regular season MVPs, 4 steals titles, and won every award in one season like Jordan did. It also had to be done before 13 seasons. It still would be a debate because Jordan transcended the game and everyone wanted to be like Mike but it would be taken more seriously. This comparison is good for ratings and a joke.

[@nonna19_21]

To the guy with cap, fist bump to you! 🤛🤟 MJ no argument is d epitome of GOAT!

[@dunsonhouse]

✊🏽 appreciate the comment my guy

[@nonna19_21]

Haha.. i am lady and a big fan of MJ.😅

[@4ntonio4lvarez]

Lebrons legacy will forever be tarnished. By creating super teams he has left a feeling of cheating. Even with such help and a longer time frame he has yet been able to surpass jordan. Jordan played all 82 games 9x in his career compared to lebrons 1x. Jordan did more in the least amount of time. Jordan played both offense and defense and nvr rested on one end as a strategy. Jordan has more championships, and accolades than lebron. Jordan nvr got swept in the finals. Lebron did it twice. Jordan nvr had 5 future hof on a team and was not able to make it into the playoffs. Its not if you win but how you win cuz winning is a must. Context is just as important as the accomplishments.

[@tyrannicaltypomichaeltester]

And That he Quits and flops and rest

[@5star1z]

Kobe is top 8-11 for most people. 1.Mj/Lbj 3. Kareem 4. Magic 5. Wilt 6. Bill Russel 7. Larry bird 8. Tim 9. Hakeem 10.Shaq 11. Kobe

[@s0Lstar18]

He has more L’s in the finals then anyone on this list, how is he and wilt top 5 when they’re below .500 in the finals 🤔

[@christophersalguero8582]

And this light comment he mad. Think of it like this, you’re in a room with a very high ceiling, and the secret to escape is written on the ceiling. Now you have 2 candles, one burns bright enough to see the ceiling but burns for only 13 minutes, and the other candles burns for 13 days but not bright enough to light up the secret to escape, which candle are you choosing?

[@kakarottharott3797]

Here’s how I define GOAT. If you’re in a pick up game and you could only pick one player on my list, who would want on your team? Here are your options-Magic, Kobe, LeBron, or Jordan. Anyone who picks Jordan or Kobe must enjoy inbounding (only time you get to touch the ball) or they’re there to exercise. Jordan and Kobe are in the GOAT conversation we would own that court until we dipped, but I want to run with someone who will pass and let the shoot the rock.

[@jerryhollins6753]

Saying that LeBron is greater than Jordan is the equivalent of saying emmitt Smith was a better running back than Barry Sanders

[@greatwhitesufi]

The Laker meltdown THIS YEAR and LAST is what really does LeBron in

[@user-nq7jz9tf4k]

You a thin slice of pizza!!! 😂😂😂

[@dunsonhouse]

😂😂

[@daveabels15]

Almost everyone old enough to have watched both play pick MJ all day. I love Lebron, and he’s the 2nd best ever.

[@ladrac198]

You can recognize that MJ is the GOAT and still have Lebron as your favorite player. I would never compare some of my favorite bands to the Beatles just because I like them and grew up with them instead of the Beatles lol

[@chikitoborroko6597]

no you dont skip the mamba, like AI said: did yah all forgot about the mamba

[@dunsonhouse]

Facts Appreciate the comment ✊🏽

[@mikenyce539]

LeBron is now playing Half Court Basketball. All offense-No Defense. Just point chasing

[@jerryhollins6753]

Think about how y'all just mentioned how advanced athletics are today compared to when Jordan played. Now did y'all know LeBron only has like 2 seasons where he played all 82 games, and Mike barely had any where he didn't! Let's really let that marinate. That shows just how much greater Jordan was to do what he did at that point in time. There was no load management! In fact the reason Jordan fell out with the from office in his first few years was because the front office wanted to tank a game in order to get a higher draft pick. MJ was pissed and never patched the relationship up. That's the mindset that draws young people to the game. What kept me glued to the TV watch the bulls. This is a competitive sport where competitive attitude is slowly leaving! It's becoming the NBE. National basketball entertainment

[@dennylam269]

Sure at some point. That point is if he gets 7 rings. Until then it means not a thing! Simply because not only did Jordan accomplish more but Jordan did it in less time. Until LeBron gets 7 rings, he is not even in the conversation. Despite what the commentator Jordan is not just a little better than LeBron. For a decade Jordan didn't lose when he played a full season. It's not close. Also Russell absolutely is in the GOAT conversation. He and Jordan are the only two players to ever figured out winning. Even though one has to put a note on the fact it is easier to win in a 10 team league than the current 30 teams.

[@Arubapower13]

I live in the Caribbean and I was a huge bulls fan back in the 90's and just like me..most people stopped watching the NBA after Jordan retired..the world stopped to see Jordan play..with Lebron no one cares

[@ball_is_lifelife_is_a_ball4682]

It took Jordan 12 seasons (12, because of injury in his second season and he played half of a season when he came back the first time after retirement) to accomplish everything he has accomplished! 6 FMVPs, 6 rings, 5 MVPs, 1 DPOTY, 10 scoring titles, 3 steals titles, 2 slam dunk titles, 3 All-Star MVPs, 2 olympic gold medals, 31,2 points per game (career regular season) and more. Lebron is in his 18th or 19th season and he hasn't accomplished anything near MJ's accomplishments! Jordan's playoff and finals numbers per game are still a record, to this day! Everybody respects Lebron, but Jordan was feared by everybody! Jordan was already a global icon when there wasn't no social media! Jordan reached the playoffs every season as a chicago bull. Lebron didn't! Jordan is 6 of 6 in the finals. Lebron is 4 of 10. Jordan's Bulls never went to a game 7 in the finals. Jordan still sells more sneakers than any NBA player who is active combined (Jordan retired 20 years ago!!!) Jordan is hands down the best there ever was and ever will be. And then there's the rest (I don't care in which order they are)!

[@MrSlashblade]

Nobody forgot about Kobe, but if you have to twist every story to make Kobe better then he isn’t better. Kobe has a better argument beating Jordan then Bron

[@kingjanson5058]

Mmmm no I still would give Jordan a slight edge over Kobe. Now if the convo was Kobe vs Lebron? I’d give a slight edge to Kobe.

[@MrSlashblade]

@@kingjanson5058 not really Kobe’s argument because he knows Jordan’s move so well he could potentially perfect them, and even then it comes down to play style and the fact that he and Jordan never played against one another both in their prime. But as leaders, numbers, impact, longevity, h2h, there’s no factual evidence that points to Kobe being better other then players liking and idolizing him more then LeBron which means nothing.

[@MrThepeacefulone]

I’m biased and will always be! The eye test destroys this debate. Jordan mastered basketball in almost every category (footwork, handles, passing, shooting, court awareness, defense, intensity and effor. He makes the game look easy. He makes it look like poetry. That’s MJ.

[@Auxzide]

My addition to this is Michael Jordan's stats going down towards the end of his career where the labrons going up the labrons stats are going up in an NBA where you can't be touched anymore or everybody is sitting there shooting 3-pointers and anytime anybody gets breathed on it's a foul so of course LeBron stats are getting better when people aren't allowed to put their hands on him anymore.

[@jestoniarco2306]

the truth is most people choose jordan because he accomplish more in Short period than lebron. And that was the true harsh truth. More people look at that more impressive.

[@bearking_kevo]

Hey can you do best football chants and their translations?

[@dunsonhouse]

Follow on Instagram send the link family

[@TheRedrich28]

That's why 75% of the people didn't say LeBron is that G.O.A.T. coz of longevity. If they did why not talk about Malone one the goat?

[@jacksmith4460]

its the same as the Football goat, the goat was playing in the 80's and 90's but people have recency bias, and mistake longevity for the greatest ever (they also seem to now think that goal stats are the only thing that matters)

[@KimJongSpoon_]

i see where you are coming from but tom brady is the goat for me, and yes i have watched all of the greats from dan marino, terry bradshaw, joe montana, peyton manning, etc. but tom brady is the goat 7 rings and countless records, and as 199th pick he worked for that shit and worked harder than anyone and it paid off.

[@antonioantonio7721]

The most important thing to being the goat is eye test first does it have the look

[@dunsonhouse]

Appreciate the comment ✊🏽

[@jrag9435]

Wilt Chamberlain… scored 100…averaged 50…AVERAGED 50!!! … unofficial leading shot blocker of all time…never fouled out… Is Wilt the goat… I can’t say… but it’s hard to put anyone above him…

[@dunsonhouse]

Appreciate your comment family

[@Hesoyam31]

Lol there's a reason why he isn't in the goat debate. Wilt was even better at stat padding more than westbrook and he only won 2 rings. Imagine averaging 50 points a game and still lost many games? that says a lot to his playstyle, individual play rather than team play.

[@jca4343]

Lebron is not better. He can never be better. Anything he does now means it takes him longer to do just as much.