Dyname 4.0 ebike motor for Rocky Mountain reviewed

The Dyname ebike motors are developed by Rocky Mountain. This is a review of the new Dyname 4.0. It's used on the 2022+ Rocky Mountain Powerplay emtbs. #emtb #ebikemotor #rockymountain

[@semidemiurge]

Excellent review. Your description of the ride characteristics is very helpful in understanding of the system.

[@EMTBVideos]

Thanks. Happy to hear I make sense (: Not easy describing these things.

[@thecount1001]

RM is huge where i live and a lot of old school guys from the North Shore still prefer them. a few were early adopters of the original Powerplays and have used and abused them harder than the average rider for sure. big guys hammering on them and while they have had a few problems, they have been otherwise very durable. they also get excellent support, especially at the main dealer, who is very important to RM. all of them are awaiting the new Altitudes whenever then can deliver them next year. a bit out of my price range unfortunately so i got the new Giant Reign E1.

[@randallthirteen8991]

Excellent comprehensive review! Ordered a hardtail today.

[@c1mat1]

I like how you talk about the changes to the motor and bottom bracket design. With all the positive changes they've made, this bike is now high up on my next bike list. Thanks for the review!

[@EMTBVideos]

Thanks, happy to hear that.

[@DKLVE]

Now that bike looks very very nice, I love the looks of the new motor. Very good piece of engineering and very well integrated With the electronics...love the display. Excellent review🦾🦾

[@EMTBVideos]

Thanks. Yeah, I liked the look of this bike. There will be a short vid about the bike too.

[@jeanbrossard6112]

Excellent description and great review for real world situation riding. Top of my list...

[@emtbtrailrider539]

The one thing I noticed with the RM older pedal assist motor was that it wasn’t as good on the straightaways, Brose pedal assist motor felt way more better on the straightaways!

[@EMTBVideos]

The old one didn't always feel as strong as it really was. I think the new one is improved in that reagard

[@thecount1001]

one thing these videos make perfectly clear is that emtbs are now coming into their own. the tech, the geo, the reliability is impressive.

[@EMTBVideos]

Yeah, the new bikes are looking really sorted. It doesn't seem geo is that much compromised by the motor unit any more.

[@chawkins45ify]

This and the new giant reign is on my radar

[@garyfuller6553]

I love your videos. I am 58 but I still like to get out there and ride trails as well as a lot of fire roads. I currently own a Wattwagons Hydra With a Bafang ultra. This motor has lots of power and I can cruise fire roads at 15 miles an hour with very little assist but the bikes are 63 pounds even with a carbon frame and 880wh battery. I really feel that when I get on the trails. Of all the motors you have tested can you say which has the best settings for minimal rider input for riding distances on the fire roads between trails.

[@EMTBVideos]

I'm currently riding a variation of the Bafang M600. This is giving lots of assist as long as i keep turning the pedals. But it's not great for control on the trails. And it eats through the battery at low pedalling frequency. A motor that is cadence sensor biased will do this, put out max power when you start pedaling. The Specialized 2.1 RX motor with Shuttle mode was fine for transport sections, but it was a bit of a hazzle turning the Shuttle mode on an off, it's done through the app. It needs to be off for anything technical I think. I think most motors that requires fairly high cadence to be powerful and efficient won't come across as being nice to ride with little input. Motors such as the Shimano EP8, Yamaha PW-X2 and Giant Syncdrive Pro are quite powerful at lower cadence, so they could be worth testing.

[@garyfuller6553]

@@EMTBVideos I have been looking at bikes like the new Luna X2 with the M600. Do you have an opinion on the peddle assist sensitivity of the M600 with standard or aftermarket controllers. With bikes like the Rocky Mountain being the most sensitive how does the M600 compare. Is it enough gain in power over the Rocky Mountain justify the loss in control. Thank You for you time

[@EMTBVideos]

@@garyfuller6553 I'm actually doing a review of the M600S, which should behave very similar to the M600. Hopefully it'll be out in a weeks time. The Dyname motors are highly torque sensor dependent, it only responds to pedal input. The M600 is pretty much the opposite, with a start up sequence and motor overrun. It is highly cadence sensor based, but it needs some torque to deliver the power. It's a different riding style, but it works for trails, as long as they're not too technical. Riding slowly over and between wet rocks don't work well.

[@garyfuller6553]

@@EMTBVideos I like your analysis of the Rocky Mountain being only assist based exactly on your torque applied. The Bafang M600 being the closest to a cadence assist. In the higher power settings my G510 it is almost pure cadence. Not that I mind on flat stretches of fire road. I remember you doing a test between the Bosch and the EP8. I think the EP8 had more assist at lower RPM. Do you have thoughts on which motors have better low RPM assist, eg. if a motor has 350% assist how hard do you have to press on the peddle to get that 350% and how fast does your RPM need to be. Alternatively which motors are closer to cadence assist. Thanks in advance Gary

[@f2performancelab]

If you had to choose between bosch gen 4 vs this dyname motor for cross country racing, which would you recommend? I live in Florida and the emtb series we have are basically 55-75min races on mostly flat trails. Thanks for any feedback in advance. I think for the 55-75min races the bosch 625wh battery should be enough, although im considering getting the smart system to be able to fine tune the ramp up for the races

[@EMTBVideos]

I think Bosch Performance CX is the "easy" choice. Power is good, and I assume the servicenetwork is too. But the Dyname 4.0 is nice and powerful, and silent... I really like this motor. Word is it can struggle with overheating if ridden with every setting at max (+2 in the app). I never experienced that, but it was like 1*C when I tested it.

[@86309]

Thank you

[@degrootklyde6895]

Do you have any thoughts ,knowledge or information about non-drive side chain maintenance ? Such as lubrication . Some say it's not serviceable , others say it is .

[@densage]

Thanks for the informative review. I have 2 questions and would appreciate your response - how’s the sizing? If you are in between sizes, would you go up or down a size? Also, can this be turned into an Instinct by changing the shock size?

[@EMTBVideos]

I'm 181 and can often ride both M and L. I assume I could get the Altitude L and be happy. But the demo bike was M, and that worked fine. For descending steep mountains, L is probably better for me. But the M still has a fairly long wheelbase, so it's a stable bike, and it was a nimble and inspiring bike on the flatter trails. I might just have gone M if I was buying. Yeah, this bike is a new shock and a new upper shock mount away from becoming an Instinct.

[@densage]

@@EMTBVideos thanks for the insight 👌

[@MrSosgaia]

Thanks for this very good review ! Could you tell me what do you think about the noise compared to the Dyname 3.0 and about the resistance when assistance is off compared to the Dyname 3.0 ? I own an Instinct 2020 (which I love) and I think about replaced it by the 2022.

[@EMTBVideos]

Based on the few rides I had on the 2022, the drive train noise is significantly lower on the new bike/motor. I can't say anything about resistance when pedaling, I didn't ride the old and new motor side by side. In theory, resistance could be reduced on the 4.0 due to fewer components in the chain path. But I really don't know.

We own both 2020 Instinct Powerplay and 2022 Instinct Powerplay. New model is bit quieter but not so much - just my opinion. What is big deal is battery life. New model is really better.

[@nobrakes7247]

It's so quiet Think I want one

[@solferinomichelotti2985]

I took the rm a50 and I'm happy. The only thing I relied on and heard from the web was the 108nm motor being the most powerful. I had a trek rail 5 625w with 85 nm bosch and with the turbo it was more explosive and copious than the 4.0 dyname. I did a "recovery" with a friend of mine who has the bosch in turbo and I in ludicrous and we were even though my leg was more trained than his. What do you think about it?

[@solferinomichelotti2985]

I forgot to write that I calibrate the byke every outgoing and boost +2 in any places

[@EMTBVideos]

I never got to compare the 4.0 against other motors. The 3.0 was giving less support when pedaling calmly, at low cadence, compared to Shimano and Bosch motors. The 4.0 felt much improved over the 3.0, but it might still not be the most generous motor at low pedaling forces. If you pedal hard, it should be among the more powerful motors out there. If you feel you're lagging behind, it could be the cut-off speed is slightly different between the motors, og the Dynam might ramp down a bit sooner than the Bosch, before reaching the cut-off speed.

[@michalmalanowicz7595]

I'd love to hear more about a geometry of the bike, is it more enduro or trail oriented? Great review anyway.

[@EMTBVideos]

It pretty slack, more enduro than trail perhaps. But it could be both, it's got adjustable geometry. I'll make a first ride review of the 2022 Altitude Powerplay C70 in a week or two.

[@nickclarkuk]

I wonder if this kind of motor design increases chain wear

[@EMTBVideos]

Yeah, interesting thought. With this design, you are dividing the wear between two cogs and more teeth. But the motor cog will only have like 5 teeth in contact with the chain. So the stress from the motor may outweigh the advantage of distributing the load over both cogs. I don't know, but there is some logic to the theory of increased chain wear.

[@NicoFari]

Hello Is there a specific reason why the dyname 4.0 recharge is applied by putting the battery charger connector on the bike first and then the plug on the mains? it's the opposite of the old 3.0!!!

[@EMTBVideos]

I rode this bike over 2 days, but the shop did the recharging. I never heard this was required, and it sounds very strange. It's the first time I've heard this being required for any battery-device. I would ask Rocky Mountain directly, to make sure. Unless it's they who said so (:

[@abelramos8652]

This is motor is pure love/hate thing. It really smoked everything else out there in some situations it really sucks in others.

[@EMTBVideos]

Are you referring to the 3.0? I think the 4.0 handles most things pretty well. But if you really appreciate the motor overrun and have adapted to that riding style, then this motor can take some getting used to.

[@abelramos8652]

@@EMTBVideos yes but i guess this even improved is still different to the others. Worth a try definitly I recommend to everybody because this might be the only ebike for you

[@malanalan1]

@@EMTBVideos It sucks cause the optimal cadence is 85 rpm and as you said EP8 performs better at low cadence which is what you want from eMTB.

[@zed5129]

@@malanalan1 nah not what I want. It's good to still get some exercise

[@FWCaptain-kv6sm]

@@EMTBVideos exactly !!! i switched over i love it

[@McCanicScot]

I’m gonna get myself a fusion a30 large unit. I bought a Chinese mountain EV last spring, for $1000 almost got killed, broke My wrist, and got rid of it. Zero control on a geared hub unit. Gotta spend the money.

[@nobrakes7247]

Sick

[@siriosstar4789]

Sachs rs 112 Nm at low cadence and very smooth and sensitive .

[@EMTBVideos]

Yeah, I briefly rode that motor. But it was on a single-speed bike, so it was difficult getting an impression of how it compared to other motors. It seemed nice and powerful and worked well on roads with the single-speed setup.

[@siriosstar4789]

Are you sure it was the Sachs RS motor from germany ? i've only seen this motor on NOX e bikes from austria and a cargo bike from Max & Maleon . i can't imagine it would be used on a single speed . i have a cube with the Bosch cx motor and a NOX xc trail bike with the Sachs RS motor . both motors have a similar feel but the Sachs is way more powerful .

[@EMTBVideos]

@@siriosstar4789 Yeah, manufacturer claim it's the Sachs RS. Quite a different bike. www.buddybike.no/buddy-bike-x1

[@siriosstar4789]

Ah yes, the sachs / micro mobility website does list "Buddy" as one of their partners . i don't understand why the Rohloff is called single speed as it does have internal gears , yes ? i assume you can change assist levels on the sachs motor ? That should give a feel for the increasing assist levels . anyway i love my NOX xc , it's perfect for getting my old legs up steep hills . thanks for the reply .

[@EMTBVideos]

@@siriosstar4789 It's available in two version, one with the 14 speed Rohloff the other is single speed. Here's the review of the bike kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6OreYWtf793bas

[@atzedevries9563]

How would cleaning of the cogs in the motor part work?

[@EMTBVideos]

I never tried. But removing the cover above the cranks is easy. Then I assume you can gently wash or brush away any dirt. There doesn't appear to be any dirt traps.

[@TapioBlue]

How does it score for a choice if you were buying yourself a new bike?

[@EMTBVideos]

Yeah, I could own this bike. I was considering one of the cheaper Instincts or Altitudes for the 2022 season, but around here they seem to be gone already. The distributor won't get more before 2023.

[@TapioBlue]

@@EMTBVideos Same here in Canada

[@frankw3ll]

Is it normal that my rm only charge at 98%?

[@EMTBVideos]

I haven't ridden the Dyname system enough to know if it's normal. It might be the battery management system (BMS) is out of sync. In that case, you could try discharging the battery completely and then recharge it and leave it plugged in for a couple of hours. But there could be other explainations. Have you experienced significantly reduced range? If there's a damaged/defective battery cell, it could mess up the BMS.

[@frankw3ll]

@@EMTBVideos its brand new. Only charged once

[@EMTBVideos]

Okay, I would try running it down and recharging and see if it changes. I probably wouldn't worry as long as I felt the range was okay. But you could ask the dealer or keep investigating it if you're curious.

[@frankw3ll]

@@EMTBVideos i leave it unplugged overnight and this morning its at 100%😂

[@EMTBVideos]

Cool, seems good then. Nice to hear my guess probably wasn't way off (:

[@malanalan1]

I think you are mixing torque amplification with peak power. It's not your fault though. Dyname uses screwed up terminology. Torque amplification is controlled by the boost level. Peak power is controlled by what they call support level. The fact that dyname 3.0 was not providing much torque at low cadence just shows how Rocky Mountains does not understand what an average bilker needs from the motor when climbing steep slopes. It seems that they tuned Dyname 4.0 for professional athletes. 85 rpm when climbing steep slope is utter nonsense.

[@zed5129]

If it was nonsense I wouldn't do it all the time. It can surely be what you aren't into, but it's not utter nonsense.

[@richardkaz2336]

Don't like the motor/chain ring arrangement. The motor bearing takes almost all the radial loading loading so you would want to have a substantial bearing capable of taking some big shock loads and that it seals are well designed to protect the motor bearing. Then the chain ring is subjected to higher tooth/chain point loading is higher along with wear as the drive chain has much chain/chain ring contact to most other bikes.

[@rsv4675]

The motor bearing has less stress on it than any other brand of motor. Normally you would have the riders weight on it too! On the PP, rider weight goes onto the separate BB. Regarding the chain ring, there is less contact points, but it is only responsible for rider torque, not motor as well. Due to the idlers, there is no side loading on the chain ring where it goes back to the derailleur, it runs nice and straight and square. Chain ring wear is a lot lower than on other style of motor.

[@EMTBVideos]

Yeah, even though the bottom bracket now sits outside the motor, there is still the issue of the motor bearing. As rsv4675 says, the load is distributed between them. Also, the motor bearing could be less exposed, being located higher up on the frame. The guys who had been servicing the 3.0 motor did not mention the motor bearing being an issue. But I did not specifically ask about it. Chain wrap has been improved on the 4.0 because the motor cog is located further back. Check out this image of the 3.0 and 4.0 compared to a Shimano XT 12s in the second lowest gear. All 34t chainrings, it seems to be 17 teeth engaged on both the Shimano motor and the 4.0. imgur.com/a/jEjhy5z