Dyno Testing 1.2 Ratio Roller Rockers ~ The Road To Horsepower Ep 5

[@abels_04]

When Red Beard teaches it feels like finding the correct answer you were searching for back in the forum days.

[@jamespurser357]

It would be nice to see a spreadsheet of parts, cost and hp/torque as the build progresses

[@detonationpyrotechnics4156]

The cost is a lot lol

[@SAUER35]

@@detonationpyrotechnics4156 it almost seem better to just buy the 420cc and remove the governor. But then the series 40 TQ cost will eat you up.

[@trollface.png1633]

working on it rn

[@cj15941]

@@trollface.png1633How’d it go?

[@trollface.png1633]

@@cj15941 didn't finish yet

[@gregswafford9839]

Loving the series, would really love to see a part for part comparison of the hemi vs. Non hemi. Its always a Facebook debate as to which one people should buy and why and maybe just a personal preference in the end but still be awesome to see real life numbers.

[@HarrisonBennett]

Love this series man! Right when you started this series, I went and bought a Predator 212 Hemi and have been doing the same mods as you after each video!

[@GrantOakes]

I've only gotten to the 5 minute mark and I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate the peak torque will occur at the same RPM as the stock rockers but it will increase slightly. Just finished the video and there was an increase in max torque but what surprised me was it came at a higher RPM, which typically only happens when the duration is increased. Very interesting build. Can't wait to see what you do with the 670cc Predator Twin!

[@seanb250]

When you increase the rocker ratio you do increase the camshafts @20 or @50 duration at the valve itself, you are also accelerating the valve at a quicker rate so you need to be mindful in some situations of valve loft and float.

[@Ratkill9000]

This has been a very interesting series and it's been a great learning experience! Can't wait to see what big block engines will make and can't wait to see what that Supercharged 670 you have actually makes

[@pogonick55]

Bruhhh your information on the valvetrain and your editing and illustrations were SO damn informative. You are at the top of your game man, respect!! 💪💯🚀

[@Race.Rust.Repeat]

Great series, always looking forward to the next video! How about doing a test with different fuels 87/89/91/93 octane, small engine fuel, race fuel, methanol? 🏁🔧

[@montanasoftware5954]

Still loving this series. Can't wait for the V-twin "Road to power" series. Also ... you should braid your beard like a Viking 🙂

[@jasongrinnell1986]

I’d like to see the v-twin done also.

[@justinmochi7323]

Yesss viking!

[@joshuagarcia8547]

Nah he needs a kilt and some bag pipes

[@mikesbarn1858]

Add a helmet too

[@joshuagarcia8547]

@@mikesbarn1858 getting drunken Scotsman vibes now

[@bryduhbikeguy]

Great info Red.Thanks.Side note:Please put a spring loaded tensioner on the dyno chain.I find myself staring at it just waiting for it to self-destruct,and it's not 'If',but 'When'.LoL..Be safe.

[@CODOutdoors]

C'mon Greg, don't cut yourself short, you are a professional engine builder, #Mini style! Great video!

[@Just-InTimeRepairs]

I'm so stoked you're doing this series man. It's nice to know that these add-ons truly do improve power.

[@andrewwalton2648]

Yaaay more Dyno testing!!

[@btv1676]

Awesome series. You are doing it the right way. Would it be possible to include a spreadsheet graphic the end of each video showing the progression of each video series showing quick description of the work, horsepower, torque, peak RPM, and cost. It would be nice to see all of this data side-by-side on a spreadsheet

[@mikedavis6566]

Greetings from Texas! Love this series. Gives real world results with common sense approach. Could you include a breakdown of the improvements, cost, hp and torque in a table on the description above for the last episode. (no spoilers for this episode!) I have been watching these but forget the numbers for the previous builds and would like to compare them as we go. Keep up the great work. You are spending the time and money, so we get the benefit of your knowledge without having to invest the time ourselves. A running chart would allow me to figure out what mods I would like to include in each build that I perform and what the cost associated would be. Thanks again for running this series.

[@honeybadgeractual5734]

Would love to see a video on the EC Carbs Adjustable main jet. Seems like a good part to boost performance of a semi stock engine.

[@a1racer441]

This has been a very informative series the dyno results and testing really help show how much and what makes the big differences when building the motor.

[@bking4404]

Could not have done it without your knowledge and videos my engine turned out great I like the way it runs I'm not running the 212 am running to 224 it's a little more involved in your series right now but I built mine right along when you're doing your 224 great series all kinds of good information keep it coming good job

[@AmadoDiaz-fg4cc]

Can't wait till they do a road horsepower series on the 224

[@trentstreichert2217]

What length push rods did you use when switching to 1.2's

[@oif3vetk9]

Love the series. Hope y'all do a 459 predator series and for kicks and grins dyno that turbo diesel. Super curious the output of that critter.

[@kylesyx8432]

Awesome information, the more I learn, the realization I don’t know a lot about these engines comes clear ! Red Beard has taught me a lot !! I don’t have to learn from mistakes, Thank you❤ much love !

[@timholahan4816]

Loving these videos, man I basically doing the same engine build you’re doing right now for my flat track bike. Can’t wait to see what the horsepower will be after you poured in Polish the head keep up the good work.

[@groskreutzzdsinn17]

best small engines video content creator goes to this guy, id pay good money for him to do this series on his 479cc v-twin vanguard for a baja mini bike, with the nos kit after all the upgrades! looking to make a mini chopper thats road legal out here in alaska. all offroad vehicles are now road legal here as long as you have insurance on some kind of main vehicle.

[@jonnyretro2235]

This is brilliant mini series. Well done.

[@FordGTmaniac]

One key piece of equipment to invest in for this series would be a good quality flow bench to test the airflow potential of the cylinder heads. If the results from the flow bench indicate the potential for airflow greater than what the engine can provide on its own, then you know it's time to tinker with forced induction which should be a lot of fun.

[@tristanmcnabb2741]

Oh yeah 👌😁🌟🦇💕the parts are allsome looking it's cool to see the difference between all of the steps cool stuff guys from cruzermans inventions 😁👍🎉🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[@djb1634]

I have another idea for comparisons. Removing some of the “stage 1” mods after installing mods like the rocker arms to show if gains can be made without doing the “stage 1”. If I remember right more lift helps more at higher RPM so running rocker arms with out upping the RPM should not help.

[@3GingerCats]

I kind of agree, a pressed steel ratio rocker set is MUCH cheaper than a Camshaft and is a better option for people with a CVT... I went from Ratio rockers to a Dyno Cams CM grind 265 lift cam and there is NO difference in performance until 45mph where the CVT maxes out and allows the engine to start revving, even with a stock cam you can feel where the CVT reaches max gearing and only then will the engine start to pull hard!

[@jimcoleman52]

I too would like to see what each mod does alone on a stock engine, then again on an engine with other supporting mods. I feel that would better demonstrate how mods interact with and are dependent on one another.

[@baldbutton1983]

I would love to see the effects of high compression on the dyno

[@thomaswirgau1152]

Yes, it would be cool if they got a head and took of one thousand a few times and tested it each time.

[@1960Murf]

I would suggest at the end of each video detail the gains of each step. That way it’s easy to see the progression of gains of each step of what you’ve done

[@terryenyart5838]

Make sure you try different seat & valve angles. 30, 45, 50, 55 & even 60 degrees are not out of the question. 45 face angle is a good choice for stock/ported stock type automotive heads. Race type cylinder heads generally run higher lifts up to 1" plus and the 55-65 seta & valve angle helps airflow @high lifts. I assume 45 degree is most likely stock angle for your engine. But should have a 60 degree throat angle into valve bowl and a 30 degree top angle smooth transition into chamber. Also can try a back-cut on the intake valve around 30 degrees to aid in low lift flow. Good luck.

[@datilman9146]

Love man keep up the good work, very interesting. Can you leave a link in the next video for the oil dip stick with the magnetic on it.

[@robertwest3093]

Nothing better than a before and after performance parts dyno session. I love seeing whether company claims of gained HP is the truth or just blowing smoke. Also did not know that factory clone rocker arms are 1:1 ratio.

[@Parents_of_Twins]

I saw a interview with Jon Kaase on Powernation and he was saying that port geometry and size is more important than flow so you are spot on with what you are saying about porting your head.

[@LowBoostFilms]

Awesome, the air filter made a difference!

[@keithgoins9646]

Loving the Dyno Pulls.

[@briandruin3577]

Just curious and maybe I missed it, but what length push rods were used with the 1.2 rockers? Thanks

[@DustinApple]

9:18 why did that pull float the valves at 6700 but the other pulls had a smooth curve out to 7400? I'd never spin one over 6 but thought it was odd.

[@travishall3446]

Might not have floated them? I noticed that too, at about 9:13 you see the afr start to flutter lean really badly with the small filter, but the larger filter didn't flutter lean at all but still showed dip in power at 6800, although a smaller dip. Would have to make a few more pulls with the small filter to see, but so far all the previous pulls i watched with this cam and filter caused the flutter and the dip in power at 6800. The best looking curve so far was easily this one with the bigger filter. At least thats my opinion. So maybe its a artifact of this filter on this carb. Some type of reversion maybe. Could still be float, but like you said, didn't show up near as bad on the large filter run.

[@DustinApple]

@@travishall3446 agreed. If it was weak springs id think it would do it every time. Gwad I watch to much Richard Holdner & Engine Builders if I can read a dyno without ever running one lol. So it's definitely got a small venturi going on & with some small porting on the intake in the next video I'm looking forward to a full pony increase. 🙌🤞 😉

[@alexlacroix9515]

I truly admire the road you and your family have been on. In my opinion you are ready to learn from a professional performance engine builder. Paul's kart and EC Carburetor taught me how to build lasting engines that make lots of tourqe and still pull hard on top end. I wasted a lot off money buying bolt on horse power Go China crap. The first two companies I mentioned use serious American engineering and also make sure that I understand how to properly clearance and install there parts. Just food for thought but you will not be disappointed with either one off those companies heads. I would love to see you compare a Paul's Kart hemi head to a Go Power sport's stage whatever head. I like Go Power sport's for Go cart and mini bike part's. EC is the best in my opinion.

[@WOMANIZERJERRY]

Really liking this series, where's the link for the ratio rockers, and push rods. I know G.P.S has them, but there's so many different ones.

[@1990mustang331]

What length push rods were used? The question was asked by like 5 people?

[@JimCooper-f8g]

I like the UNI type foam filters that can draw air from back as well

[@jeremyramos6152]

Love the series. Thanks for the content

[@jeremiahbradley6914]

Great Video and as usual awesome informative connect very much enjoying the Road as the engine progresses in power

[@richardmattix5322]

I would like to see some wheelie on those little Minni bikes. I would like to know if you have to jerk the front of the Minni bike up or if it will come up on just power alone.

[@Greybuiltracing]

Damn rbg ! Your really doing it ! Keep it up !!

[@jeffrykopis5468]

Don't forget, RB, even with "only" .265" LOBE lift, you still had to grind the crank counterweight to clear the lobe.

[@marquistaylor3491]

I have been keeping up with this series and without getting too far ahead it would be pretty cool to see what a stroker does for power, and then taking it even further by turboing it... just suggestions. "if you build we will watch it"

[@jeffrykopis5468]

RB, keeping P2V clearance in mind, is there a domed piston available to work with that Hemi head, bumping the compression over 12:1? With E85, and rejetted carb, it should make big power.

[@Charles-bj7qu]

Horsepower up reliability down. I have tried to get the best balance in what I build. Great show. I am Old School. Keep up the great work.

[@bradenclifton45]

Picked up .2 hp just with filter change! Keep it going yeyeyyeeh

[@walterpalermo1304]

224 series needs to happen!!

[@Dustinscustoms]

Can you do me a favor we do this in Quarter Midget‘s negative cam timing. We do about 2 to 4° negative cam timing and by spinning the gear that spins the crank and it moves the RPM band up with negative cam timing. Can you test that I am very curious. It does make the exhaust hotter. I do know that.

[@donaldhalls2189]

How much extra power did the larger air filter give ? sorry I missed it, not bad an extra horse power just changing the rockers, thanks for sharing, all the best to yous and your loved ones

[@3GingerCats]

Well that was interesting, I thought the ratio rocker would have made a bigger difference... maybe they would with a ported head, or using them with a STOCK cam. I am still more interested in torque figures at different rpms with different cams, as the engine is ALWAYS restricted to what the CVT will allow it to rev to. ie my CM grind is no quicker than a stock cam until it reaches max gearing at 45mph and nobody has the Dangly bits to reach 60mph where the power is

[@ryszard999]

Chewbacca rules >> great channel 👍

[@freedomforourfallen3755]

Thank you for this. It’s been a eye opening and points to the real gains

[@bking4404]

Great series red beard I built my engine along these same lines

[@vintagetintrader1062]

Any test on high compression heads, I'm about to put a genuine Honda GX160 head on a GX200 clone, there is a big difference in chamber size. Maybe with ratio rockers so no need to open crank case to gain a few hp

[@mikesbarn1858]

An idea for a test please. Test an engine with 87 octane then test with premium and then 87 with octane boost.

[@lrmxc927]

wonder how much a 32/28 big valve head would add

[@boneheadfish7893]

I’m putting together a pretty basic predator 212 for my almost 6 year old daughter. Just doing the air filter with included jet, governor spring capture mod, 18lb valve springs, the .010” head gasket, and the Autolite racing spark plug. I plan to leave the factory muffler to keep it relatively quiet for her. How much do you think the factory muffler will hold this back?

[@musiclyric6665]

I want the 999cc durumax series. With a turbu installation , am sure it will get crazy numbers.

[@ProfessorMAG]

What about an offset flywheel key? Ignition timing is no joke...

[@TheMajictech]

Especially if you build a long rod engine.

[@josephvalentin5893]

Hey red beard is it possible to install a super charger in a ma single cilinder engine

[@Beebeebobingee]

So thorough!! These are great videos

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thank you sir

[@seanb250]

The air filter setups made a big difference, did the smaller filter have the radius entry adaptor the same as the black one? You were getting erratic booster signal with the smaller filter setup and I’m going to guess it’s more to do with the entry radius than the surface area of the filter itself.

[@dwelch2160]

I do a few small modifications to the kids mini bike and would like your opinion on what better valve springs would be for their 79cc harbor freight engine? I know it's a small engine but they are small kids right now. keep up the good work

[@joshmiedema13]

Will you be trying different fuel types as well? E85 vs rec fuel vs premium vs racing fuel (high octane)

[@timr4853]

With the bigger filter you were able to make more power even though you were running more rich, so you should see better gains with that port job.

[@sammylisasmith2104]

Great video bud thanks for your knowledge and your time

[@562jamesj]

I wish you would overlay the graphs pre an post rockers to see exactly were power shifted and extended

[@ruicunha103]

when you change to 1.2 ratio roller you need diferent size rods?

[@rattlecan13]

Love this series!

[@cesarborunda5224]

Do all these upgrades apply to the regular non hemi engine ?!?

[@wesleypulkka7447]

RBG, Did you dyno the bone stock motor? What was the real HP? 212 Predators are supposed to be 6.5 HP. So far you have more than doubled claimed HP. Just wondering what it really had out of the box? Great video!

[@3GingerCats]

that was the first video of the series, It was just over the 6.5mark, but not quire 6.6

[@joelboley2344]

He did on the first Road to Horsepower video. Just slightly more than 6.5 if I recall correctly.

[@lizzard7473]

Awesome work folks

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thank you so much 😀

[@shark11175]

Holy cow thats good increase from one part

[@aaronyoung8132]

Hey rgb could you please try the mod2, mod1 and the .310 cam from dyno cams i got a rod flywheel mod2 cam ported head ss valves 26lb springs 1.3rr 196 hysun and dont know of i should upgrade to the .310 or go with a mod1... keep up the great content

[@markday2198]

Hi - I am doing same build - what pushrods are you using . Please !

[@jeffmcelroy5364]

Please move the screen closer to the camera while you're doing the Dyno pull. It's hard to see on a small phone screen. Don't really need to see the engine just sitting there as much as needing to see the gauges as the pull is happening. Thanks!!

[@dogsandwich-b2r]

Then get a bigger screen 🤦‍♂️

[@HappyHands.]

Hey RB.. if you had to choose between a dirt bike and your mini bike for an easy trail.. Which would you chose??

[@jamest.5001]

Id like to see the head shaved, raise the compression about 40 psi or so, high enough you can barely pull start it! Or where it requires 98 -100 octane fuel, just a guess cut the head, deck the block, or both, about.040" - .050" +/-, with better flowing head, back cut the valves, maybe cut more angles on them

[@isaacurquidi8634]

Hey did u use stock size rocker rods

[@beanz4242]

Hey redbeard, I have a 224cc max performance engine and have been looking all around for a transmission. Is it even possible for me to purchase a transmission? Where would I get one? Is it better to just purchase a torque converter?

[@jamest.5001]

If it's going to be under 6k rpm engine, I'd look into running the shortest rod possible, with more compression sand a fine gone bore, and coated shirts, the short rid will help the not so great flow, and performance at low rpm can gain a bit,

[@robertwest3093]

Does the typical automotive performance valve job help on these engines? These engines are such a nice upgrade over the old flathead design. I don't know what took them so long to go to this design.

[@jaystrappa]

You have to change pushrod length with roller rockers??

[@wesleyammon8425]

Something to try on the dyno is different length rods, to see how it changes the hp and torque throughout the rpm. I know it may not add hp, or may depending on the application.

[@TheMajictech]

Longer rods are less prone to detonation so one could or should advance the timing to see the most benefit from a longer rod. This all assumes the piston is in the same place in relationship to the deck each time meaning longer rod, change the piston to match. In cases where you don’t have to change the piston to match, enjoy the increased compression but it won’t take as much timing before detonating.

[@jonpippen6998]

ARC has a good video on rod ratio (what your talking about) And explain the various benefits etc

[@TheMajictech]

I think the term you missed is port velocity, too large a port kills torque, impedes fuel atomization, and doesn’t necessarily fill the cylinder as well due to port velocity loss.

[@lloydbaker7099]

Great information

[@Strict30]

Since you put ratios do you need to increase spring pressure?

[@trevorgog3776]

What size push rods did you use?

[@TheFreedo420]

What length cromoly pushrods did you use? I've got 5.260 and I'm using 1.2 ratio rockers but it's just not right. The rockers come off the valve even at 0 or I'll have coil bind.

[@jonathanshoumaker7337]

Would those rockers and push rods work with a tillitson 212cc with a hot 265 cam?

[@lopez2386]

What size valve springs did you use with those ratio rockers and did you cut the head or use longer stem valves to prevent coil bind

[@stanlucas665]

What clutch are you using on the engine for the dyno tests?

[@thomaswirgau1152]

Definitely want to see a detailed head porting video, it’s pretty intimidating and most videos on youtube aren’t the best.

[@justinmochi7323]

So what should I do if my motor is coil bound? I'm currently building my atv motor with whole after market valve train. Not the same motor I know but concepts should be the same

[@TheMajictech]

Machine the spring pockets down if you have the room, pretty common practice actually

[@timothyhavens3687]

What length are the push rods

[@internetuser1523]

Does anyone know what length the chromoly pushrods are? I think they are either 5.26 or 5.16 inches but I’m not sure.