Early Christian Assemblies: The Good Berean Podcast

[@TimBunch]

Thank you for your work, Tom. I've been on this path as well. As a "worship director" I pushed hard to reform what worship meant to people. I eventually shifted to home gatherings, while working to shift how others define worship in the church at large. I agree that we need to strategically shift our thinking from large gatherings to smaller ones.

[@tomwadsworth]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.

[@Aservant56]

Trying to find a House Church after years of visiting "churches" which had false doctrines, were 501c3 business lectures and committees, with a man in a suit doing a one-man show and wannabe rock n rollers .... the "church" is so off-the-mark. Thank you brother Tom for your excellent research. I pray this understanding goes global!!!

[@tomwadsworth]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.

[@jimdee9801]

Churches have a stage or pulpit with the congregation sitting obediently facing in one direction towards it. Designed so the ppl cant engage with each other, then when the service is over the ppl file out with a few social nicetiites and go home for Sunday lunch.

[@Aservant56]

AMEN - truth.

[@oscarcat1231]

Exactly

[@robertdelisle7309]

Have you heard of small groups? Many non-denominational evangelical churches use them to offer a more intimate fellowship during the week.

[@oscarcat1231]

@@robertdelisle7309 why go to the two meetings

[@jwashingtonparker]

WE NEED TO SHARE THIS DEAR BROTHER'S VIDEOS. THIS AWAKENING IS COMING TO THE TRUE BODY OF CHRIST

[@NBnNC]

Truth! To be a part of the body of Christ is to be in the temple & Tabernacle of God… Revelations 21:3 “And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”

[@jwashingtonparker]

Amen ​@@NBnNCanother good YT channel is that if brother Ronnie Hurst

[@tomwadsworth]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.

[@NBnNC]

@ I published a book earlier this year “diary of a confused Christian” tackling misconceptions that I was taught about tithes and the need for a prophet & the need for a sanctuary for worship. I hope you’d have the time to check it out 😇

[@JonathanGrandt]

Church ministries will get on their congregants for not being formal “members”, and yet I have become convinced that most institutional church leaders don’t actually believe in biblical church membership. A “member” is a functioning, connected part of a greater body. A recognized person who is part of and participating within a community. A proper biblical member is simply a person who is part of a family wherein he or she functions as an integral part. The Body of Christ consists of such members. A member is just as necessary to a functioning body as the body is to the member. I find modern church leadership is resistant to this model.

[@peterjennen99]

You can see the discomfort in pastor’s eyes when you try to tell them, “I am the church.” That has been my response to their question, “So, where do you attend church?” The idea put forth by Dr Wadsworth puts the pastor’s salary in question. I don’t think it will work to change how believers assemble, at a corporate church, until the job description of the pastor is changed. Frankly I don’t know how that will work, nor do I let it concern me, after all, they are all different denominations, which is wrong.

[@NBnNC]

@@peterjennen99 I probably shouldn’t say this, but I love to see the discomfort. I love to see them squirm…. Ultimately, I hope they’re discomfort leads them to dig in the word of God and believe what they read 😳

[@NBnNC]

@@JonathanGrandt most of these church establishments are nothing but corporations that use tithes & offering as revenue doing God knows what with it… these funds are rarely poured back into the community to help the widow, the orphan, the homeless, and less fortunate

[@peterjennen99]

@@NBnNC Our purpose is to edify the body. How we do that is unique to each encounter.

[@warrenroby6907]

Two of my favorite KZbin people having an important conversation.

[@kenhunkin5741]

Been down the same road for years till the lord showed me what the worship is and new testament way of home church fellowship

[@linnhudson4908]

I think tom that this format is the modern house church, as if im setting on my poarch you scroll by, i notice you, and you introduce yourself and i give you a listen and i hear the word of God from you as i sit here in my rocking chair. Lord bless you brother

[@nancybaumgartner6774]

Sharing this ! Thank you !

[@tomwadsworth]

Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.

[@rhercha1]

We are all called saints, ambassadors, and ministers. One Christian shouldnt be the only one that the rest rely on to edify the others. Let the Holy Spirit move amongst the believers to teach , encourage and build up the faith of the group. Believers do a disservice to the group when only one is allowed to speak. Many more will grow in love, leadership and faith if allowed to participate.

[@peterjennen99]

@@rhercha1 Yes. Saints is hagios in the Greek. That is the same word that is translated to the word holy. There is only one way for us to be holy, and that is for us to be made holy by His blood. We are changed in the twinkle of an eye, at the last trumpet. The last trumpet is the seventh. That is when Jesus returns. We are part of the “holy angels” mentioned in Revelation 14:10. Those that remain in flesh will change as they die as the vial judgments are poured out. We will then have the 1000 years to help them overcome. We don’t want any that can obtain salvation to be thrown in the lake of fire.

[@andreacody7416]

We are beginning to gather now, and this information is so edifying! There is always freedom in Christ, and this teaching emphasizes just that.

[@tomwadsworth]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.

[@cafe_con_Abby]

I find it so interesting this video came up today as this is something I have been researching myself. Great info!

[@tomwadsworth]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.

[@jmartinianovlogging1482]

Thank you guys for making your time on this topics God bless!!!

[@tomwadsworth]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.

[@Stef-in-the-Philippines]

Thank you, Dr. Wadsworth, for sharing your insight and research with us. What a lovely presentation / example of how to deal with Hot Button Topics as well. You are diamond, Tom. Love your kindness and clarity. Many, many thanks.

[@tomwadsworth]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.

[@mikebloum3489]

Speaking is fine . , Paul does say that teaching to the border body is for men . Another scripture says . Let women teach, disciple woman woman and men ,disciple men . But teaching and preaching to the overall body is left to men .

[@mikebloum3489]

Word should be "broader".thank you .

[@snotgurgletroll1812]

I was introduced to small groups in Fairbanks, AK 2003. There was questions and discussions!!! After that i always had a VERY DIFFICULT time getting thay atmosphere ever since. One church had life groups but only lasted 6 weeks 3- 4x year....but it was not necessarily same home/group (i have trust issues thus this it was disappointing). Another church had 2 groups meeting oposite every week, led my pastor....all it was pastor leading Bible reading and there was NEVER any discussion/questions this never went back to church or evening meeting. I've found the standard worship services of today not fulfilling!!

[@cw460]

Thank you so much, Mr. Wadsworth.

[@tomwadsworth]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.

[@dougbell9543]

Outstanding guest; outstanding segment. ✔️

[@tomwadsworth]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.

[@dougbell9543]

@ Really looking forward to its much needed publication, Tom. ✔️

[@Kinetic.44]

Death to self, self denial, suffering for righteousness sake, taking up your cross daily, witnessing/martyring yourself as people put you to death in their hearts for telling the Truth of Christ. That is how our lives are given as acceptable sacrifices unto God. The "Lord's supper" has nothing to do with crackers and grape juice. They were eating the passover, that is lamb with bitter herbs and unleavened bread. To drink of a cup means to die a violent death.

[@Kinetic.44]

All the rituals were blotted out nailed to His cross. Roman/pagan catholicism is not Christianity. Alexander Hislop spells it out perfectly in The Two Babylons. It is the worship of nimrod and his wife. It goes back to hercules and venus worship. The eternal Word has no mother (mylita queen of heaven is paganism) call no man father other than your Father in heaven, do not bow to carved images ect...

[@sueackerman7469]

I've listened to a number of Tom's videos with great interest but I have not heard how the synagogue played a part. Didn't the first Christians still consider themselves Jews and probably continued to observe the Sabboth which was their duty to God and the law. Then it makes sense that they met another day in a less formal manner to read the letters, wait for a visit from Paul and other apostles and to learn how the Lord fulfilled the Old Testsment and freed them from the law. When did the early Christians leave the synagogue and saw themselves separate from the Jewish faith?

[@MrSeedi76]

It was a lengthy process that took centuries. One separation point was the council of jamnia (90 AD). But there were still jews considering Jesus the messiah and going to synagogue into the 4th century.

[@sallgr]

That's been my question as well...thx! 👍🏼

[@peterfox7663]

Jews were kicked out of Rome in the first century. Christians stopped meeting on Sabbath in an effort to distinguish from Judaism.

[@harveynailbanger]

This is another thing that happened during and as a result of constantines attempt to unify a divided and crumbling empire.

[@tomwadsworth]

The astonishing fact is that the NT never says that Christians met in the synagogue. Yet, it’s amazing how far this errant idea has spread. It’s true that Paul used synagogue meetings as an opportunity to proclaim the gospel to the gathered Jews (Acts 9:20; 13:5, 14; 14:1; 17:1, 10, 17; 18:4, 19, 26; 19:8), but Christians did not, in fact, “meet in the synagogue.” (!!)

[@danbrewster839]

The reason they ministered to one another is because Christ is in us now..... So to edify one another it did 2 things at once..... It ministers to the person and to the in dwelling Christ at the same time...... Inasmuch as you do it to one another you do it to me

[@PatrickMungathia]

In the church today a believer can stay with a gift of the spirit and have no opportunity to edify others with it because of this wrong set up.

[@eugenejoseph7076]

Amen brother! After a full year of seeking ministry opportunities in our small, very small church, the 30 year old 'know it all pastor' said, "I'll think about it" i.e we are 65 years old and we left within a few weeks. He controlled EVERYTHING! I think he may be a wolf!!! Building his own little kingdom!!

[@linnhudson4908]

I believe that what we've been missing is the great plainess of speech, paul is telling us of two different time frames, now and then, two distinct time frames in which paul and timothy will live. Too me it makes perfect sense that paul being separated is that there are two pauls , two Timothy's that come for pauls third visit, being hes only visited twice.

[@robertdelisle7309]

“Singing is praying twice”-Augustine

[@rampartranger7749]

I would rather be in my Sunday School class once than being in my worship service 10x. Vastly mote pleasing to me, but more importantly, I suspect, vastly more pleasing to God.

[@Aservant56]

AMEN!!! This is the truth. Bible study with food, singing, prayer and fellowship...

[@MrWeebable]

49:00 'vain repetition' is quite subjective ultimately. There is at least one example in the Bible, where the angels continually sing 'holy holy holy' in heaven before the throne. So how do we determine if repetition is vain? Christians who like repeating prayer formulas will just say it's 'meaningful repetition'.

[@reformed-slave]

Thanks for your time Tom and Jason, I appreciate the perspective and your efforts. Just a few questions, how about the instances like in 1 Cor 5 to put away the immoral man 'among' you, or the list of widows in 1 Tim 5? Or the giving of account of elders in Hebrews 13? Is it safe to say that these imply a growing structure as the early Church progresses? I, like you, also attend a 'traditional' fairly-sized church and am also involved in small group meetings with our church members (or guests) for deeper study and discipleship.

[@tomwadsworth]

Yes, the early church gradually developed larger groups as their numbers increased. But evidence from the first, second, and third centuries shows that houses continued to be the standard meeting venue until the fourth century. An occasional immoral person, a list of widows, and elders are still consistent with house churches. The list of widows and the group of elders may have applied to an entire city that had many house churches within it.

[@esprenger1]

Dear Tom, thank you so much for your insights, they are useful to me. I have one question about edification; what is it? How do we need to edify one another? ( I do know all the one another's) what purpose does edification serve? (in terms of body of Christ). Love from the Netherlands

[@mikebloum3489]

@esprenger1 TO edify each other , is to encourage or build up . Support one another in fellowship , and be there for each other., for we are one body in Christ , as living stones . A Spiritual house of God , BOTH singly , as the temple of the Holy spirit and together as the Church Bride of Christ . ( Body ministry . Caring , Sharing ,admonishing, Correcting , All in Christlike Love for and toward each other. Amen .

[@1Whipperin]

Thanks for the edification. In regard to women speaking isn’t the issue questions versus edification ?

[@lightandperspective7785]

Good point! There are a LOT of considerations for the 1 Cor 14 passage. Andrew Bartlett, Terran Williams, and Nijay Gupta are great resources for exploring the issues with how the restrictions on women are understood in the context of the passage and that day. They mostly point to other people's scholarship, but what I like about them is how they frame and explain it to those of us who are not scholars. 😆

[@gintas38]

Great video. Do you plan invite more on this topic, like Frank Viola (pagan Christianity) or others?

[@MainChannelTX]

Finally Tom states that he doesn't gather in the type of assembly he ta;ks about. He is a part of a regular church body that is like most in existence that has a large group meeting in a typical building and an auxiliary small group gathering/ Not the situation I was led to believe. I pictured him meeting only in s small group house church but he admits he doesn't. So I guess it's ok to keep the current model of a big gathering with s single preacher and praise band, but emphasize the small group as the true meeting. Is that what you hear?

[@1Whipperin]

Excellent question. What is the point of attendance at the larger gathering?

[@lightandperspective7785]

I was thinking about that during the "church service" haha this morning. I do love singing praises to God with the accompaniment of a hundred or so people and skillfully played instruments. It is a taste of the praise to come, I think. I do think there should be a higher emphasis, based on what Tom and others have revealed about 1st Century gatherings of believers, on meeting in small groups within each other's houses... and that those meetings are not "controlled" by the "church" (organization), but rather allowed to flourish under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

[@1Whipperin]

@@lightandperspective7785 Isn't your views on singing praises wishful thinking not based in the NT?

[@tomwadsworth]

To be clear, I actually get little edification from the traditional assembly. That's why I also meet weekly in a small group where we study the Bible together. I don't see a need to denounce others who apparently find some benefit in the traditional setting.

[@1Whipperin]

@tomwadsworth What benefit do you receive from attending a traditional worship assembly?

[@mikepotter1291]

The music part wasn't a big deal in the 1st century because they were meeting in homes and in secert because of the persecution of Christians. There were priests, elders, deacons and bishops very early on.

[@republiccooper]

So the Church got larger and larger. Edification takes different forms as the gathering grows. Getting together and singing to Jesus is part of the edification. My takeaway is that modern church is fine once people are involved and being built up.

[@hebrewquotes3148]

Levites were musicians also that performed in the temple as a way of praise to God.

[@linnhudson4908]

I would say that the conversation is more important than resourses that are being offered. Not to be critical but paul uses great plainess of speech. He tells us everything in way that you dont need interpretations. One of my looks at how to follow scripture is to follow the precepts, the only definition ive found is that it gives direction and rule, thats what speech does, future tense is a direction, all the parts of speech are at hand, and there are rules to live by in speech . If we dont follow the rules then we have no direction.

[@linnhudson4908]

Thats a interesting thing you said, i just caught it, why would a gentile be praying, are we not all one , neither greek nor jew. So when does the gentile become no longer a gentile. Through much vain prayer or is it a event that brings us all together, some ministry that comes with power.

[@Mojo4884]

Love and truth to you brothers; NOTE: Rev 1: 6, 5: 10, 20: 6 all suggest we are priest of God by God and for God, but I understand the connection to tradition and doctrines of men.

[@lwbjrbeaver]

What is your understanding of tongues from 1 Corinthians 14? What activities would you say are essential for a Christian gathering/assembly?

[@tomwadsworth]

My guess is that the tongues were foreign languages not recognized by others in the assembly. Those tongues needed to be interpreted so that others would be edified by the speech. (1 Cor 14:29) What activities are essential? I think Paul would say, "WHATEVER activities you do, just make sure that "all things are done for edification" (1 Cor 14:26) and make sure to do them "decently and in an orderly manner" (v. 40). In that chapter, Paul doesn't mandate specific activities, but he mandates the purpose of those activities: Edification.

[@HenryGoodwin-rs2nk]

I've tried to watch a few of this guys videos but about all i got was how he talk's about his little certificate's and how much he studied One video he said he was going to talk about what the Bible said about worship!! Never got to the biblical view!! I kept watching and waiting

[@steffanrhoads1870]

And God’s sabbath is on Saturday. the simplistic exegesis used today is silly. our traditional translations are just wrong. The number of Hebrew & Greek words that could be transliterated instead would make understanding much better.

[@rhercha1]

Believers met on the first day of the week. But all days are holy to God.

[@SSNBN777]

Because of the Trinity, Christians have misinterpreted 2Cor 13:13 which typically is translated with the words "fellowship or communion of the Holy Spirit", but should most closely be translated *_"sharing in the Holy Spirit."_* Every Believer in the gathering has received an indwelling portion of the Father's Spirit delivered through the Son at the new birth (Acts 2:32-33) We're to have fellowship with each other using and recognizing this unique gift of the Spirit we have in common instead of fellowshipping in the flesh like our former selves. I left the churches long ago, because they fellowship so much in the flesh - "Did you see the big game yesterday?" "How about those (insert your favorite sport or sports player)?" "Are you going to see such and such movie." Etc etc. The flesh is useless and not edifying; things of the Spirit cause growth. Romans 14:17 NASB95 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, *_but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit._* Luke 10:21 NASB95 At that very time *_He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit, and said, "I praise You, O Father,_* ...

[@NBnNC]

Genesis 22:5 “And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to.”….. Abraham and Isaac didn’t go up into the mountain to sing songs. They went up into the mountain to be obedient; worship is not praise. Worship is obedience.

[@Kinetic.44]

Tounges means languages.... not modern pentecostal babytalk babbling

[@teachmetheway7081]

Tongues misspelt. But that aside... you need be careful with the sideswipes. Understand or better yet recall that the first hearers of as you put it "babytalk babbling" considered it foolishness and considered the disciples as drunk so early in the day. Kind of runs close to your view of pentecostals on this matter. So while you feel it necessary to softly castigate pentecostals etc you are NOT EDIFYING persons on this matter. That is because you have minimized the fact that it still sounded like absolute foolishness to those nearby in the Acts account as the disciples first experienced it. Try not to deride or insult too quickly. Think through your points and present as dispassionately as possible. Full disclosure: I am pentecostal but appreciate the actual I cor 14 issue that you are really trying to speak to nevertheless.

[@njhdreams2415]

It seems Paul was concerned that women not take over the teaching of doctrine. Prophecy seems to be quite different from the office of teacher. Perhaps there was a specific doctrine teaching portion of the fellowship where the elders had the role of defending the doctrine of Christ.

[@lightandperspective7785]

​@@njhdreams2415 Prophecy is teaching, instruction. Look at Anna in the temple at Jesus circumcision. She was called a prophet and she taught *in the temple* about Jesus. On top of that, the prophets of the OT taught *doctrine,* such as Huldah (sp?) who taught the entire nation from the book of Deuteronomy. Reconsider.... how many passages seem to directly limit women's speech? There are only 2. Yet the ones where vocation are spoken about, such as 1 Tim 3, Paul interestestingly uses gender-neutral language in the Greek. Check out Jamin Hübner on 1 Tim 2. Andrew Bartlett on 1 Cor 14. The two places on which complementarians must take their stand are shaky ground at best. And that's coming from a formerly totally convinced complementarian for 36 years. Another great place to explore are the recent books by Nijay Gupta and Terran Williams. God's Kingdom does not limit women, and we should stop engaging in the limitation of 50% of God's kingdom because of their gender.

[@NBnNC]

I Agree!….. Acts 2: 7-11 7. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8. And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9. Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10. Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11. Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God

[@jonmerrick9654]

“Though I speak with the tongues of men AND OF ANGELS, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.” -1st Corinthians 13:1 KJV ✝️🤍🕊️

[@mattziemer5361]

Holy Spirit led assemblies are a must. As far as edification goes it is the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth. Not each other, except as the Holy Spirit is doing the edifying through us all.

[@Nashvillain10SE]

Sacrifices, altars, priests, vestments, and incense are all found in the Old Testament, in paganism, and in Catholicism.

[@Kinetic.44]

A mid-roll ad popping up every 10 minutes or less is extremely annoying and very inappropriate, considering the subject matter.

[@jwashingtonparker]

GET KZbin PREMIUM

[@jwashingtonparker]

KZbin premium???

[@DK-tq3fy]

They really don’t have any control over the kinds of ads that KZbin puts up.

[@DudeMaccabeus]

Literally the easiest way you can support your favorite christian content creators is letting the ads play. Not everything is about you Janice

[@jwashingtonparker]

@@DudeMaccabeus get premium

[@linnhudson4908]

I believe tom that you are describing the effects of doctrines of demons, they wanted to make a unholy thing into a holy thing, having a leadership that presides over the church. Calling it worship and sacrifice when neither are true.

[@wtillett243]

Aren’t church buildings today no different than synagogues in the Bible? There’s no instruction to the Jews to build synagogues . Leaders of the church, elders, have authority to do what is best for the flock they tend to. A building to gather in makes sense. To teach our children, to pray, to sing. I agree we have become too regimented, but we don’t need to break up into tiny home churches either. Just because the church started that way, doesn’t mean it’s the best way.

[@cloudygirl66]

What about Pastors, Preachers, etc... getting a salary?

[@tomwadsworth]

Paul defended the idea that he could be financially supported for his work (1 Cor 9:4-18), and he defended the idea that teaching elders had the right to financial support (1 Tim 5:17-18). I have been that preacher who received a salary for my work. Believe me, I would much prefer not to be dependent on donations. But when you have a family to feed, you need financial support from somewhere.

[@cloudygirl66]

@tomwadsworth 1 Corinthians 9:18 KJV - What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

[@tomwadsworth]

@@cloudygirl66 Yes, Paul had a tent-making business that allowed him to not take advantage of his "right" to receive payment for his ministry. 1 Cor 9:12-14: "If others share the right over you, do we not more? Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things so that we will cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ. Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share from the altar? So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel."

[@cloudygirl66]

@@tomwadsworth thank you for your time and scriptural guidance. This is something that I often wonder about, and just never sits right with me. If we are not going to church buildings and should fellowship in homes, it seems odd that preachers are paid a yearly salary to sit in their homes and write a weekly sermon. Something I've been seeking God's wisdom about and I'm still not clearly understanding.

[@cloudygirl66]

@@tomwadsworth Paul wasn't sitting in his home making a regular salary like preachers do today. It just doesn't seem "right.". But I will pray and study the verses you shared. Thank you again. We aren't to be going to "church worship" anyway.

[@linnhudson4908]

Great question, what effect dud constatine have on the church, you need to ask this question, is there money in it. The love of money and power that the church has aquired should be our only litmus test. If your in it for money then maybe your intent is wrong, i say that corporatly . You see many preachers preaching that tge christian should be wealthy but james says Gid has chosen the poor of this world rich in faith called to be heirs. John 1;12,13 also begs the question, is this prophesy that has yet to occur?

[@robertdelisle7309]

What is “correct” worship then?

[@tomwadsworth]

Watch the video.

[@robertdelisle7309]

@@tomwadsworthI have watched half of it and you still have not defined what true worship is other than quoting Paul who says our bodies are living sacrifices to God. And that the assemblies are to edify one another. Am I missing something?

[@robertdelisle7309]

@@tomwadsworthmany evangelical churches use “small groups” as a way to edify each other in a more direct intimate and relational setting. The Sunday morning service is usually too large of a group to have the same kind of relational fellowship.

[@louisquaid6599]

Following Jesus was called, The Way , the pagans named them Christian .

[@tomwadsworth]

I've heard this idea before, but it needs to be reconsidered. The apostle Peter said, "If anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name"? (1 Pet 4:16)

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

Hellenic philosophy schools were born of gyms. And Hellenic gyms were not "secular" spaces. Christians train (ἀσκέω) the soul along with the body. The working vocabulary of Christian practice (praxis) is Koine Greek.

[@Kinetic.44]

Those gyms were athletic fields for playing games. It is highly doubtful that early Christians were "training" their fleshly bodies as that is vanity/worthlessness. The Holy Spirit "trains" the soul by working in you to do of God's good pleasure. It is received from God, not made by your own will. John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 1 Corinthians 2:10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

[@brothernick7221]

First of all the koine Greek combination word "ek-klesia" renders called-out in English. Madeup of two well language defined words one being called and the other out. If Jesus was to pronounce ek-klesia in English today he would have to pronounce it called-out. Tom is correct about worship but carries the theologian's line with him, like other reformation theologians, assigns the word "assembly" when assembly or gathering in Greek is not "ek-klesia". The ANF and Septuagint translations into English were done by 19th century theologians using the same translation scheme as the KJV.

[@ByTheGraceofGOD777-u7o]

“HEREIN is My Father ‘Glorified’; That ‘Y-o-u’ bear MUCH FRUIT: So Shall ‘Y-o-u’ Be MY Disciples.” ~ JESUS CHRIST ~ (St John 15:8) ~~~ “If Any man Desires to come after ME, Let him DENY ‘himself’ (REPENT), AND take up his Cross ‘D-A-I-L-Y’ and Follow ‘ME’.” ~ JESUS CHRIST ~ (St Luke 9:23) ~~~ “And he that taketh NOT his cross, And Followeth after Me is ‘N-O-T’ WORTHY of ME.” ~ JESUS CHRIST ~ (St Matthew 10:38) ~~~ :o

[@linnhudson4908]

I think that paul is allowing for women to prophesy not corparatly but maybe to a womens group, or to their husbands.

[@All_Things_Biblical]

The band has replaced the pulpit - this is the great error of evangelicals the past 30 years. Worship is something that should mainly be done on the knees. In holy reverence.

[@MrWeebable]

In terms of edification, singing together does more for church goers than listening to 1 guy talking. Both long sermons and endless 'worship' songs go against the edification priniciple, but removing the pulpit is an improvement.

[@linnhudson4908]

He made a investment, thats the question.

[@lightandperspective7785]

Re: women in ministry. You said "it's a great relief to me that I don't have to worry about that." Of course you don't, because you're not one of the women who are silenced, who are told that they can't hear from God properly because 1 Tim 2 says women are deceived (which it doesn't). You're not one of the women who are told that God doesn't gift them the same as God gifts men (which is in direct contrast to the Bible's teaching on the vocational gifting of the HS). On top of that, in 1 Corinthians, Paul says that we ARE to judge among the household of God, so the question should be "in what way?" or "to what extent?" Men in the assembly have been telling women in the assembly for millenia that "I have no need of you" when it comes to teaching and instruction. They have been saying that women can only instruct each other and children. Yet Ephesians informs us that no one in the body should be saying that. That the hand should not say to they foot "I have no need of you." I understand that you're already rocking the boat with your teaching, so you personally feel that this is not a hill worth dying on for you. However, for the millions of women throughout history and today who in Christian congregations are treated as second-class citizens without a voice this needs to be fought for and it is a hill worth dying on. According to the revelation of God's Kingdom values as presented in God's Word, the hierarchical and unilateral (one-sided) submission of women to men is in direct contradiction to that Scriptural revelation. For more on what 1 Cor 14 and 1 Tim 2 are saying within their wider contexts, Nijay Gupta, Andrew Bartlett, Terran Williams, Craig Keener, etc are wonderful resources, including why that topic is extremely important in the Kingdom. Also, Jamin Hübner's dissertation that includes work on 1 Timothy should be read (or listened to as he has a presentation available on YT) and understood by anyone who points to 1 Tim 2 as an excuse to silence or exclude women from any role in the congregation.

[@harveynailbanger]

Simply stated, you can not edify that which you exclude...

[@jimdee9801]

In any protestant fundamentalist church ive attended there have always been roles for women, singing, teaching children and women's groups. If you don't like Paul's teachings sounds like you are in arrogant rebellion. Perhaps you need to review your actual faith

[@lightandperspective7785]

@@jimdee9801 I was complementarian for 36 or 37 years. It was God's Word that convinced me otherwise. Perhaps you should check out the (male) teachers I suggested before holding fast to your presuppositions and even calling me a heretic by saying I'm in rebellion and should check on my faith.

[@bryanhodge3978]

No one is saying they continue in a literal way. They do continue metaphorically, which is why we use the term worship today. You are one who thinks it is wrong to use the word.

[@owenpope353]

You are talking about how you used to conduct church meetings in the 50s 60s and 70s. This is a load of rubbish full of edification of yourselves. Don't use the bible to reinforce your own theories. Who is the God you bow down to. Sacrifice your importance to God's Sacrifice of Jesus to re-establish humanities relationship with God.

[@Kinetic.44]

Glossa and dialektos has nothing to do with nonsense babble

[@alphaome]

It is nonsense to you because you don’t have the gift of interpretation. Isn’t that what Paul said?

[@DoubleX77]

@@alphaomethere’s never an interpreter when people are babbling !

[@alphaome]

@ In which case it is to be spoken not in meetings but as personal tongue as in 1 Cor. 14. You obviously have your bias to silence the text. So you end up accusing tongues as babbling just like they did in Acts 3. I am not making the case that everyone who speaks in tongues are indeed real but I am challenging your false premise

[@TheologyJ]

Although i agree… this really boring 😴🥱