Earthships: Alternatives To Tires

Alternative to Earthship tire walls: CMU, Formed Concrete, ICF, Earth Umbrella

[@daled002]

I own an Excavation Company, I've work with the earth every day for 35 years, as well as digging and forming foundations. I'm also planning to build an Earthship inspired home. My plan is to use Rammed Earth instead of tires. I plan to dig trenches for the Rammed Earth walls and concrete footers, pour the concrete footers in the trenches, then use Excavator with compactor plate to compact layers of low P I soil mixed with about 10% cement to top of walls and cap with concrete. Then trench behind walls to place bituminous sheets on back of wall to seal of moisture, add perferated drain pipe in sock and backfill behind wall with crushed concrete gravel, then Clay Cap. After back wall side walls and wing walls are done, dig the dirt out from interior side of walls to depth of below intended floor slab. Now front wall can be built and so on. This enables earth forming earthen walls with very little hand labor making what could take months take only a few days.

[@matt-justice]

Love the idea!! This seems like more work/time/expense than just having a wall poured though?

[@daled002]

@@matt-justice It would be more time and labor compacting layers instead just pouring a Concrete Wall. If I didn't own the equipment and already have employees I maybe would just pour concrete. I would be willing to conduct this experiment on someone else Dime first if there's any takers! LOL

[@matt-justice]

Makes sense! I’m always calculating either renting equipment for this, or hiring it out... totally different I guess when you own the machines. Keep thinking I should buy a Case 580 or 410G for a short while to use on projects instead of renting, just haven’t pulled the trigger. I’m in Maine if you’re closeby! Lol Be happy to, gotta hire someone as it is that thinks I’m nuts ;)

[@daled002]

@@matt-justice Im North of Dallas, Im also an Heavy Equipment Dealer. www.dirt.contractors , www.texashe.com

[@rongray4118]

Doing just that here in Nevada north of Reno-Sparks off of Pyramid Highway. My modified version utilizes compressed earth block which we will be making on site. Hope you get your project going soon!

[@lewiedidit956]

Definitely agree pounding tires for 7 months didn’t sound appealing but I love the idea of an earth ship

[@daniluchison]

It’s a trade, Earthships are meant to be done with tons of family/friend helpers, the COLLECTIVE COMMUNITY is the priority, otherwise u r right, 7 months of pounding not worth it.

[@twotales1645]

I second your sentiment. I'm fascinated, but I've been looking for a video exactly like this.

[@athenamorales7321]

I'm just glad am not alone.

[@selfsufficientnic7112]

I certainly don't have that many friends who can take time off work to come and do the tyre pounding. My thought was, if I was go that way it would have to be a workshop.

[@nomadterry6146]

For earthships become nationwide built ; they have be economically fast build; hempcrete blocks might be answer outside earth sandbags

[@steveclements7371]

We you there in the middle of summer on a hot day? This is when off-gassing would be the most noticeable. My friends have been in Earthships in Taos on hot days and the tire/petroleum smell is unbearable. I have read several articles that claim that tire off-gassing in Earthships is a non-issue, but tires do contain: "benzene, mercury, styrene-butadiene, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, and arsenic, among several other chemicals, heavy metals and carcinogens". I think that Mike Reynolds is a brilliant guy and a saint for pioneering this style of architecture, but it would be a shame to find out that residents of tire-wall structures develop serious health problems years down the road. Not trying to hate, just after the truth and want everyone to be safe, happy and healthy. This is a real concern and deserves some research and analysis. Your concerns are justified Matt, even if you are not sure why tire walls don't sit well with you. Thanks for the video! ~S

[@dethmaul]

I'm thinking that the same rubber diaper you wrap the roof in, loop it back around and block the tires off from the interior as well. Maybe locking in the offgassing would help?

[@daniluchison]

Tires don’t off gas if the are completely covered by earth. The off gasing happens on the outside walls but you can also cover them all.

[@oliverroedel1111]

@@daniluchison believe this hahaaha

[@garethbaus5471]

@@daniluchisonalthough the process should be slower, off gassing doesn't completely stop when the tires are buried certain materials in tires naturally break down when they are near room temperature and some of the byproducts of that process are toxic.

[@Embassy_of_Jupiter]

I don't think the the decision to use tires was entirely rational, but rather ideological. I think he really likes the communal aspect of pounding tires together for free. It was just one of the first things he's found, probably a innovation he's very proud of, so now he's rationalized it to such an extent where it's the nest solution ever. I'm certain there are much better alternatives, but he probably won't look for them.

[@benghis_kaan]

One caution here, the back wall is a key part of the solar heat "battery" in an earthship that helps stabilize the temperatures inside ( absorbs heat from sun hitting it, then releases that heat when sun goes down and temp inside starts to drop). The thermal mass of the wall is key to this, and you do not want to use an insulating material for that back wall or else you will lose the thermal battery process. So, ICF and timber should be crossed off your list.

[@nathancasey6579]

So would Concrete wall be crossed off then too? Ben Kaan

[@benghis_kaan]

@@nathancasey6579 Nope, concrete is a very good thermal mass when it is more than 4" thick, which is why the ICF walls are not good thermal masses. A solid 8" concrete wall, or thicker, would work very well. It would also be much more expensive than traditional materials sourced for the thermal mass walls (used tires, ertc.)

[@tmckmusic8584]

Why not cob?

[@jasonludwig2488]

@@tmckmusic8584 With cob, even with a good wrap, footer, drainage behind it etc, if somehow it retained excessive moisture or water, it could lose structural integrity very quickly. It's very structurally sound but only when it remains dry.

[@garethbaus5471]

@@helenjones568 the color of any surfaces exposed to the inside is important to the buildings temperature regulation especially during the day, but paint doesn't store the energy for a significant period of time and it is the energy storage properties that the OP was concerned with.

[@marycrandall9954]

Why not go with cheaper more sustainable EarthBag tubes, or bags and rebar? Its got much mass, hurricane (wind) proof, fire proof, rot proof, bullet proof and EarthQuake proof?

[@jakebredthauer5100]

Labor?

[@oakmountaingod]

@@jakebredthauer5100 how is that more labor intensive than pounding tires?

[@jakebredthauer5100]

@@oakmountaingod What about going down in the ground Like Mike Oeler did. He dug his by hand, but you could use an excavator. Then you make a wall and backfill. Put an insulated roof on it. I don't think tires have much value in a cold climate. I was not talking about tires. Tires are disgusting.

[@oakmountaingod]

@@jakebredthauer5100 I agree with you on that 100%. I am looking into alternatives for tires because I won't use them.

[@jakebredthauer5100]

@@oakmountaingod What is your location? Hot cold Wet dry? Severe codes, mild codes? Do you want to spend a lot or a little? What are the top two that you are considering? Often the way the Indians did it and the way the pioneers did it at your location will give you some clues about what is appropriate.

[@tob34]

Just be sure that the wall you are going to build can hold up against the massive amount of earth you put behind it. The idea with the tires is not only about thermal mass but also as a counterforce to hold back the tons of dirt behind them

[@szoya5365]

this is why EB tire walls are not even vertically straight, a straight brick wall would be hardly able to hold a green roof AND the wall behind

[@unshapingtheearth7916]

Earth bags! Use polypropylene bags, put in a mixture of sand and clay with some moisture, pack the bag down and let it dry until it becomes a brick. Between the layers of bags you insert two lines of barbed wire

[@DLexEdition]

Ever thought of using something called, "Hempcrete", it's basically ground up hemp fibers and lime mixed together, that when cured is stronger than commercial concrete and roughly 3 ~ 6 times lighter than commercial concrete, too. It's something to think about if you don't want all the extra out-gassing from concrete (has radioactive elements; uranium, radium and radon gas being emitted). Another thing to think about is mitigating any radon gas build up in the winter or when it rains really heavily in your area where you're building. Put a communication and mitigation system in under your flooring to protect yourself, also helps keep your floor dry, so you're not losing thermal mass the hard way.

[@willm5814]

Totally agree - this would be a great application for a very broad/wide hempcrete wall!

[@886jules1]

Thank you for this, it answers so many issues I have with other alternatives to tyres. I'll be checking availability of hemp fibre in my area. Exciting

[@gee3883]

@@886jules1 Hempcrete will not have the load bearing capability to take the weight of the roof.

[@jonothandoeser]

Stoner

[@DLexEdition]

@@jonothandoeser Weed and hemp while they're in the same family and species, the subspecies is different. Hemp has 0.3% delta THC or less, while marijuana has at least 9.0% or more. Translation, you won't get high smoking hemp unlike marijuana.

[@ronaldsahn9649]

I have been exploring the same problems, on a hillside dig out for your building walls tapered or stepped back like a retaining wall, then dig back 8 or 10 ft for thermal mass, with a backhoe, insulation on back of the trench and on top of mass waterproof cover, put a french drain into water storage for drainage , fill with larger rocks filter fabric then gravel, could be done with 1 or 2 guys and a excavator pretty quick, basically it's like a walk out basement with a greenhouse

[@michaelh7770]

I've used that same analogy as an argument in favor of poured concrete walls. It's essentially a walk-out basement with patio doors all across the front wall. Another upside is this should easily meet code in a lot more locations than some of the more exotic materials and methods used with earthships.

[@timothy9874]

Gabions - rocks stacked in wire mesh.

[@allynnamccleod8862]

Most of the materials in an earthship that weren't being recycled back when they were first built - tires, cans, bottles, etc - do get recycled now, and I have some concerns about having a bunch of toxic tires in my walls. Thanks for coming up with an alternative.

[@SustainableCraig]

Did you ever end up building your earthship inspired office? If so can you do a follow-up video of how it went. What worked/didn't work?

[@craigb8145]

Matt I live in Alaska and am formally from the Colorado region. I have often wondered instead of using rammed earth why not use a slurry compound to fill the tires like a earthen mud slurry with cement additive for strength. Or if your going to use ICF forms do a double wall back to back on the forms. Then you would have a 8 inch concrete wall that has a styro foam insulating slice in the middle. Let me know if you have any ideas on this bunch of random thoughts

[@sarahw5559]

The trick would be to figure out how to fill the top rim of the tire, so there isn't an air pocket there ready to collapse under pressure.

[@jeffholmes8236]

What about using a 3-4” hole saw to drill holes in the side wall facing up to let the concrete/slurry not form air pockets?

[@graniteridgegreens6278]

Pretty well read every comment and some great info from experience here on one site, that is great. So did you figure out what to use? I'm looking at many of the afore mentioned methods but am also no sold on tires as a vessel. Rammed earth is a option but it needs a vessel to hold it. Eathquakes will compromise most rammed earth structures. I've looked at ICF, and now NEXCEM blocks which may be the answer but also like hempcrete blocks but want to get going getting my off grid location build going soon. Nexcem are great for outer insulation especially if taken to R-28 specs but I'm looking for inside thermal mass as used in rear walls of earthships. I have a idea for Nexcem and will get back to this if my idea is a viable option. Thanks for this video, it brought some great different ideas to one location. Cheers

[@4stevenies]

I’ve been thinking about this as well. The lego hemp block with lime seems to be the best performance product atm, but could it be used in place of tires?

[@twotales1645]

I'm late to the party, but I only learned about earthships a month ago. I've been researching ever since. A fast, less material/labor intense approach is something I've been considering. Did you decide on an option? Earth bags, for a wall, concrete as a motor, to also create the thermal mass wall, was a thought I had, but I am just starting the planning.

[@vonharris9188]

2'x2'x6' Concrete bin blocks are available nationwide from landscaping and construction companies. Companies like 48Barriers will sell them new or as used road barriers. No forms to build or gabbion cages to make. No waiting for concrete to dry. Stack them in place just like a retaining wall. Waterproof and back fill the same day maybe. Blocks with decorative stone imprinted facing are available. If you want to recycle tires, use them to build the road, or driveway of your property. Cut the sidewalls off, lay on the ground in a grid like circular honeycomb, fasten together with air powered nail gun and then fill with crushed stone or recycled concrete and gravel. The road will be well drained and you will never have potholes or ruts up there in Maine. You might even try the wall less tires for the walls of the house. No trying to hammer dirt around and under the sidewalls of the tires. Just grab an pneumatic tamper and get with it. If you have drainage or erosion issues on the property you can lay out all the cut off sidewalls in the problem area, cover with some gravel and then dirt and grass. The sidewalls and gravel will slow down runoff and allow it to seep into the soil.

[@michaelh7770]

This is a really interesting idea. Fast build, extremely strong, low-tech, and it looks like around $7,500 for a 100'x10' wall. That's pretty enticing. I suppose shipping is a significant problem/cost as each block is 3,300 lbs and most flatbed trailers are good to 48,000 lbs. It would take 3-6 loads to haul that 100'x10' wall. And I expect this would face code challenges just like tires, rammed earth, etc.

[@cookingclassics]

I feel like you are missing the point of the tires. He is building with existing materials. Tires are great because you are using something that is littering the entire work. Every inch. I recently bought a property, and what do you know, less than a mile away, a huge pile of tire just sitting off the road someone dumped.

[@st.george9404]

Mr. Reynolds nickname is the garbage warrior. His intent is to build homes with recycled materials. My intent is to build an economical home that is low on energy use. I am not going to pay a team of laborers to hand pound the tires just so I can say I am using a tire wall. I do not have a team of 50 people volunteering for this. In my opinion he is looking for alternatives. Worm boy that is how a design is improved.

[@totallynotdelinquent5933]

Tires smell bad and release toxic chemicals into your home. They shouldn't necessarily be building materials

[@daniluchison]

OverLordMauS He has been building homes for 50 years. Do you honestly believe if chemicals were an issue people wouldn’t put it out there? There is no off gassing as long as the tires are completely covered by earth. Taos uses outside walls, not living quarters, where the tires are exposed.

[@TableNetwork]

Well said.

[@jay-rus4437]

Just came across this. As a general contractor with engineering background, Ive been brainstorming these same methods. While I understand the advantage of the tire wall, its extremely labor intensive, and as you yourself mentioned it isnt as appealing to many. Ive been considering a hybrid build between metal containers and earthship, although I do recognize that this would likely compromise some of the benefits of an earthship. I have also considered cmu concrete filled wall. I think that would behave similarly to the tire wall in retaining heat etc. Anyway….like the conversation going on

[@matt-justice]

Thanks! Agreed, some folks are offended… the real intention is to learn more and explore more ideas. No one way has to be right or wrong…

[@jay-rus4437]

@@matt-justice ….I can understand why they do what they are doing with what would be considered a true earthship. However if one can stand back and look at the larger picture they might see that it would be better to appeal to the masses and begin a foundational change in how we build, as opposed to hold fast to a line that makes sense but will put most people off. This is a win the battle but lose the war scenario in my personal opinion. We downsized our entire lifestyle 8 years ago with extreme changes in how we lived, worked, and prioritized things. Just recently have converted part of our traditional ranch home over to solar. It was really an experiment for us to see and live with it personally. We are moving to yet another phase that will likely be a 5 year process. Its all been good though. No more credit cards. No new cars. Now, simplify our cost of living itself

[@Jagueyes1]

The tire wall can be strapped down and filled with any light weight insulator like vermiculite or even recycled plastic pellets, or sand, which doesn't need compacting, where it's readily available.

[@jay-rus4437]

@@Jagueyes1 …..but this would negate the point of the tire wall. They are doing it to gain thermal mass, so insulation fill would eliminate this advantage.

[@FuzzySockz1776]

Im working on my plans for my earthship as well. I am not going to be using tires either because of the labor and gasses. Im going with the concrete pour with a backside pour of aircrete. That would give you a nice thick thermal mass wall. Excellent structural support and its fire proof, water proof, its an insulator and inexpensive to make. It can be poured or made into blocks. The blocks can also be cut with a hand saw. You should definitely look into aircrete 😊

[@chanamoriel8696]

Go with either continuous tube or individual bag type earthbags. The pros to this method far outweigh the cons. Do yourself a favor and look into it.

[@FortniteOG420]

Earthbags would work, reinforced with rebar and buttresses, great thermal mass and solid as a rock

[@markschuette3770]

yes tires are rubber and they are insulators NOT conductors- its the packed adobe/dirt inside that is the mass- but the rubber keeps the heat from getting into the dirt- thus tires don't provide much mass! you can use anything even frame with an exterior sheathing that is water proof- they do make waterproof below grade plywood.. the only mass that really absorbs the heat is IF that mass sees the sun- and that north wall doesn't! and standard hollow cinder block is not mass- you want the heavy cement blocks filled with concrete. its the floor and some of the interior walls that see the sun in an earthship! unless you put a clearstory in the back of the roof. also NEVER use the slopping south glass! huge overheating issues plus water leakage and a loss of quarantee from the glass manuf.. the only time to do sloping glass is when your in the lower southern US latitudes. where the sun is higher in winter. also put an appropriate overhang above the south glass- draw up the sun angles -on your south elevation to find out when the glass will be shaded- via a sun chart. also never use exposed wood on the south side around the glass- it will degrade in a few years and leak. always isolate the greenhouse from the living space (via tight windows and doors) or else you'll get insects, mold, etc. inside the house. and the cans and bottles are really just for decoration or as fillers - they do nothing as mass. never put your open top cistern- like some of the early earthships- inside the house- kids/pets could drown in it!!! never make your cabinets/doors out of pallet wood- it looks shitty and warps so it doesn't seal. you can use brick venear or a 2-3" thick concrete plaster over frame walls for interior mass- but again it needs to see the sun or be very close to the warm south side of the house.. and add a big overhang on the east and west porches if you have porches. www.bendsolarhomes.com

[@matsfreedom]

Poured foundation, no doubt about it. If your lot is accessible, it's the best way. The bank will loan money on a house built with standard practices, and you'll have resale value just like any other home. If you're in a remote location, dry stacked block makes good sense. If you live in a third world country, then tires and cans it is. The earthship design concept is superb. Building with garbage will not save the planet. Why do it?

[@eggorey]

What about polypropylene/hemp/burlap bags tamped with dirt? A hybrid between an earthbag and earthship

[@redsrp2348]

Older video so not sure if it's been mentioned. But I've been thinking about modifying a gas powered post driver to "ram" the earth into tires. Thoughts?

[@mountaingeorgie]

I want to build a cinderblock earthship in east texas. If you did cinderblock's and sand for the back wall, does that mean no earth burm behind it? I like the earth burm for heat transfer. If i put in an earth burm, would i need a moisture barrier?

[@gosendit]

Could you buy used 20gal drums and fill with dirt? Seems similar to tires in terms of thermal mass. Could get polyethylene or stainless? If there are vendors for used drums that might work…. New to the earthship concept but have also been wary of tires. Beyond offgassing, worried about decomposition into soul.

[@ScottYun]

I've been thinking about this as well, and what I've decided on is use the basic earth ship shape. I , however, would slope towards the front like a Chinese greenhouse (highest part of the house is the back wall). Instead of tires, you use Hesco barriers. If they're strong enough to be used as retaining walls and as protection from explosives; it's strong enough to use instead of dirt packed tires. Then pour aircrete in vertical forms to put a smooth face on the interior walls like stucco. You can berm the exterior walls. It's fast and strong. For the parallel support beam in the middle of the house, pour concrete footers for vertical posts and a giant glu-lam (or similar) beam that spans the entire width of the house. The very front gets a rubble foundation.

[@michaelh7770]

Gabion cages in layman's terms. I've had the same idea. Gunnite could also work as a coating...basically swimming pool walls shot into place...no forms needed unless you're after a flat vertical finish. Otherwise, I'd like to basically do exactly what you're suggesting with the design.

[@luclaflamme4712]

I like the idea of Hesco barriers. Any examples of this being done somewhere ? What would you fill up the Hesco with ? Sand ?

[@ScottYun]

@@luclaflamme4712 The other responder was correct when he said the laymen term is gabion cages. I've seen smaller and larger cages in use - anywhere from 2'x2'x2' upwards to meters long per side. The size of the individual squares determine the size of aggregate used, if you want to leave them exposed. You can often see the larger cages stacked on top of each other on highways where they're used to catch rocks in rockslide areas. You can also use geo-fabric to line the inside of the cages if you want to used dirt/sand like you'd see in Allied bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. I saw walls 3 to 4 meters tall, when I was over there. The whole point of the idea was to put up the bones in a super short period of time, so I'd most likely hire out since you'd want heavy equipment to do the job. The cheaper in the long term option would be to buy a used mini-excavator and DIY; since you'd have something for future digging on your homestead.

[@katholderbaum7950]

They are now building the global model earthship with slope towards the front to keep the roof exposed to the south. The sunlight melts the snow better and keeps the water from freezing better.

[@tippin26]

A good operator on a machine and 2 people running compactors?

[@UrbanGreenZ4]

Having been deployed to not-so-nice places around the world (as a civilian), I've lived in some HESCO type shelters and wondering if there isn't a similar concept that would work in place of tires for the back wall?

[@mirriamvalentin8634]

I'm not smart or anything but I definitely have this burning desire to build an earth ship of my own one day. I love how it is designed Mike Renolds right? Well I love to read comments on what I am watching ☺️

[@hopechannelcat5462]

a lot to think about! did you ever find out any answers or ever build thee project you mentioned?

[@petechristian9126]

Can you mix water with the dirt to make it the consistency of concrete pour each row of tires let dry then repeat

[@GentileschiMusic]

well I am right now also thinking about it. I am from poland and there is a polish company that is making some interisting stuff they call DOM3E they are doing some lego bricks ou tof Perlite- very simple to build and fast and the price is also okay- and perlite is somehow a littlbit more ecofriendly and has some nice properties. what do you think about it?

[@SuperJLTube]

What about using a sea container as your main structural element?

[@bsrcat1]

You can make hesco barriers, use terrestrial Earth with a bag of Portland cement per 5x5x5 cube. You have to buy the wire in the landscaping cloth, using it for structural walls I would include wire every foot so the basket maintains a square shape or whatever shape you intended to be. Mix it with the Portland, fill it, Tamp it, put your next 5 ft section on top of it 4x4x5, then use your bond beam... Then you just use stuck on the outside and the wire that is already on the barrier three-by-three square is a perfect anchoring point for your chicken wire. Are you basically doing is waterproofing the outside. With that much mass mass, it's going to be far more than any tires that packing, having the Portland cement will make stabilized earth. All you need really is a backhoe and you can have your walls done in a few days... Or you can pack tires it's up to you 🤷

[@brandonjoffe]

what about plastic icb totes stacked two or three tall? you can still fill them with dirt for the thermal mass and the plastic should hold as water weighs more than soil and then fill in the cracks between the totes with clay and bottles? this is my current plan as i do not want to pound 1200 tires in either

[@rongray4118]

My wife and I are building an earthship style with Hydraform Compressed Earth Block...

[@maodonimega]

Can you please explain what this is?

[@ZachsMind]

@@maodonimega Hydraform Compressed Earth Block is comprised of soil, water, and cement, which is then compressed using hydraulics into bricks. Personally I feel standard cement would be stronger, but not as 'green.' I rather imagine it would last about as strong as adobe brick, but of course I'm no expert. I'm sure it'll be fine. Using earth to hold back earth. What could possibly go wrong?

[@maodonimega]

@@ZachsMind thank you for the explanation. In answer to your question...water ingress?

[@edwardautra8753]

Sounds like the best option!!!! Ive done a lot of research and been in the construction industry a long time , thermal mass is where its at , and rammed earth has stood the test of time all around the 🌎

[@rongray4118]

@@maodonimega I never received this response - sorry I didn't comment back! Hydraform compressed earth blocks are made by compression with on site soil that can be mixed with cement or lime based materials. hydraform.com/

[@brentjenkinsdesigns]

Would a rammed earth wall work for the thermal mass concept in the earthship?

[@melaniesmith3954]

Compression strength of a CSU block, I think is about 3,000psi. You can look up beam loads on any local building code site, universal building code for US also has rood load specs , an engineer should spec this number with the roof load and snow load requirements for your area

[@jonhale6918]

You could use cob?

[@wiseandfunfox]

I'm in the process of designing my own home, I really want to use a lot of sustainable materials, super insulated/high thermal mass etc. I think I came up with the same thoughts, using tires is not really the way to go for most people. Unless you have access to a very close tire dump I don't think I would go all that extra work for actual minimal return. Tire walls is very unnecessary, also the amount of layers of plaster work really adds to an unbelievable amount of labor. Material handling doing cob or any plaster/stucco is hard work and incredibly slow. I would only choose that if you had a tractor with a bucket, and maybe even a tiller to do all the mixing. I'm thinking about using forms that use metal roofing materials as the outside/inside material, basically permanent forms. Would save lot of labor. Maybe a woodchip/soil/straw/concrete mix as the infil, would need to be tested. Aircrete looks awesome, but to get it perfect would require a ton of testing.

[@JohnnyArtPavlou]

I’m pretty sure there are forms out there that are made of insulation board with metal reinforcing bars in between them. If you’re not against the idea of using foam insulation board. Then you have a little bit of insulation on either side of your wall. Have fun with your design process! And best of luck with your local building department. Sometimes they’re a little stuck in their ways.

[@Deutschtown]

There is a person here in Taos who plans to shred tires and compact them in 3' x 5' blocks. Keep in mind that one of the earthship concepts is re use/ up use of existing materials.

[@igorloncar051]

What about Rammed Earth Wall?

[@AyaInspiredTarot]

I was just thinking the same thing, and wondering if rocks/boulders were more my style. My daughter is allergic to rubber, and I hate the smell of tires (which I hear you saying didn't seem to be an issue, but I wouldn't want to chance it) I read they will work, then I saw your video on the suggestions.

[@thorfinn_uzumaki8718]

Could something like a gabion wall work?

[@austinwarhurst9212]

Any suggestions ford florida?

[@hollandgreen7555]

I helped build one pounding tires with a sledge hammer. It gave me a back ache. A friend used a 30 lb pneumatic tamper which made it a lot easier and sped it up. Coated the inside walls with insulating spray foam, then plaster.

[@jimmorrison6677]

I have a friend in British Columbia who built a tire house herself. She also did not want to pound dirt forever, so she figured if she just cut the sidewalls of the tires and packed them with a flat plate compactor, it would save time and make the stack easier. Although her community is completely off grid because they built their hydro system (enough to power 5-7 homes), she could have just built a box and heat with unlimited power. Also the reason for all the tires is to give the necessary depth in ground to make the ventilation work naturally. As far as the roof loading goes, have some trusses built to tolerate x amount of earth cover. Lastly, how much solar gain do you expect (location, orientation to solar, heat storage type internal material, concrete, Trombe wall, so on. If you need help in that arena, (my 40 year hobby job is designing solar systems for clients at no charge, sort of a retirement job).

[@patriciarouse2801]

Are people testing for the leaching off degrading tires in the earth water table and air in the earth ships?

[@lsweeten1971]

Late comment.. But, tires + earth = rammed earth on a mini scale. Could you just use rammed earth with the same effect?

[@nssk]

I had the same thoughts. I was thinking CEB compressed earth brick or air Crete. ICF is also interesting option

[@johnjackson9564]

ICF cures at a higher strength due the insulated forms holding in the heat and moisture. With rebar in every core or every foot vertical and horizontal it can hold back backfill for a buried wall.

[@BowenOrg]

That's a great idea but, what about all the material needed for the mass? If you have "insulation" via the ICF, you're blocking the convection heat from going back into the home when it gets cold! ICF is great for building and it's strong but, I believe that we need alternatives for the tires so we can benefit from the convection. I like the ideas above using sandbags filled with earth or sand or a combination of things. Very strong if multiple layers are used and you can do everything yourself quicky without breaking your back by "beating" tires! : ( ha! ha!

[@danieledoardomendoza4653]

@@BowenOrg do you know if plastic bags used for super Adobe or dirt bags etc release toxic fumes?

[@TheVigilantStewards]

Did you find an answer to this? What about using aircrete or hempcrete for the back wall?

[@dilll4626]

I was also thinking AirCrete as an alternative to a tire wall. Its relatively easy to purchase mix, can even be delivered to site, cheaper, and much much quicker. You could probably make a 30 inch backwall out of this, line it, and then pile earth in behind? this is all theory though. has anyone else used Aircrete, and if so, is it strong enough to be a load bearing wall?

[@DanielRichards644]

last thing I read on Aircrete was that it wasn't allowed for structural loads in most areas, thats one of those things thats still too new and many inspectors aren't familiar with. Also one of the big concepts of Aircrete is it's insulating properties, you don't want that for your "thermal battery" because it's a lower mass which means it holds less heat.

[@backtoasimplelife]

What about slip forming a cement wall with rocks backed by polyisostyrene as a thermal break?

[@ratedmark4704]

Looking for that alternative to a earth wall - maybe in Nevada Elko Country area - I'm looking at wanting a pure concrete slab and retaining wall instead. Wanting to design a basement with fish pond designs. I was thinking that a tire wall stacked then poured concrete and rebar.

[@cheriosmith]

What about using Gabion wall cages? You could consider rammed earth for the separating walls too.

[@michaeltaylor8084]

Smart man ! I doubt if many are aware of what your saying ...I love the appearance on slopes but don't think I'd care to have it in my living room ... Plus expansion/compression difference may not work to carry a stable roof ..but I still like the idea

[@user-do3jv2jh3c]

Instead of vigas some kind of posi strut bowstring trusses can be considered for the roof and back wall load bearing as well

[@matt-justice]

Excellent idea, thank you. Have you purchased some from any reputable manufacturers/builders you'd recommend?

[@user-do3jv2jh3c]

That's the only link I would recommend so far: ru.scribd.com/document/176999705/Truss-Solutions-for-Curved-Roofs :)

[@CITYBORNDESERTBRED]

I’m sure you’re well along on this, for those pondering checkout Bautex or Perfect Block ICCFs

[@Tron2pointOh]

What's wrong with earthbags or rammed Earth?

[@Wacko20111]

Have you considered tire bails?

[@skyjumper999]

What about concrete-stabilized, flexible-form rammed earth? I'm starting an earthship build in a couple of months using this technique.

[@satleet]

have you started your project by any chance? how did it go? i want to do something similar

[@skyjumper999]

@@satleet I have started it. It's in progress right now. It's going slowly and there are unexpected delays but that's probably the same for most construction projects.

[@gabrielgagne3850]

What about weight at the top of the extended back roof ( where the back wall is) lifting the roof up, but bones are much of a support without the tendons and muscular form. I’m a beginner so..cooked mycelium moulds are a way I’m going to study just because I am into mushrooms and they are currently used as bricks. Have you ever compared earth ships with any farms?

[@helenachase5627]

Smoke another joint

[@gabrielgagne3850]

I really think mycelium bricks made of tire and straw would be interesting to try because of the bacterial imperviousness. And ease of not having to pack because the mycelium would do that for you.

[@jimh4167]

One of the down sides of tires Citys/counties can say after a certain amount on your property they represent hazardous waste... And they can give you X amount of time to remove them Now all of a sudden you'll have to haul them off and pay the hazardous fee per tire

[@rongray4118]

Knowing how to discuss your personal life with "experts" is the largest problem in this entire process. I just remind them...public health and safety is for the public not the private.

[@skypiIotken]

Hello Matt, like you I have been interested in earthships for years, my wife and I have actually traveled to Taos, NM and spent a weekend in an earthship in freezing conditions and were unbelievably impressed with their comfort level, overnight low was 7 degrees F, inside never got below 70 degrees F, since then I have wanted build a small one, but like you I also didn't want to pound tires and thought that hyperadobe earthbags or tubes would be a good alternative to the tires, because I was also interested earthbag construction having watched many videos on that type of building, examples would include youtube channels like Cal-earth institute in Hesperia,Ca, Tiny shiny homes, and mylittlehomestead, I plan on constructing a small one 120-180 sqft, in the high desert area near Paledale, Ca, to test the method, sorry for the long comment

[@johnswartz7872]

Rammed earth wall would work very well and it’s really fast especially if you have a skid steer that can lift it up there

[@mori8424]

I don’t trust tire walls in an earthquake so I built my earthship with 4 concrete reinforced walls (the walls facing the earth berm were engineered with 5/8 rebar). The south facing wall acts as a trombe wall and it works very well. I put stucco on the south side of that wall and thin brick on the inside. If I were to use tires I would secure them to each other with fasteners and then fill them with rebar reinforced aircrete. I saw the double decker freeways in SF after they collapsed onto each other so I have a keen respect for earthquakes.

[@mycroftholmes7003]

pumicecrete?

[@elivalentine452]

What about using moving containers ?

[@al-j505]

Incorporating earth integrated design, water recycling, natural ventilation, and passive solar energy is definitely a way to go. But yes using tires is a terrible idea for multiple reasons. Besides being labor-intensive and not mass-produced as earth-bricks or stone, it is a total health issue. Check this out: hackingtheearthship.blogspot.com/2015/01/tire-off-gassing-research.html Good luck to everyone who is trying to live in a sustainable way and thinks of future generations! Anya

[@carlosaguirre6341]

What about adobe made out of the same ground from the excavation?

[@nelsonferris4553]

I’ve seen people build houses out of hay bails. I don’t know if it would be strong enough but it could be a option in combination with other support. NOTE - I’ve never done it so I have no clue lol

[@michaelh7770]

I've done it (helped build them). Not a great solution for higher-humidity regions and you have to be pretty fanatical about preventing moisture from getting into the walls, and making sure it has a way to get out. Otherwise it's prone to rot/mold.

[@MissMeganBeckett]

Hay bale can only be used for above grade projects, usually on tall basement foundation walls and under very wide eves/roof, it needs to be kept very dry or bad things. Earthship is a partly below grade project, half underground so as far as I know it isn’t possible to keep it dry enough in an earthship to use hay bale walls safely.

[@fredk4136]

Agree 100% with you regarding the tire not being so appealing. There is a video about burying two shipping containers under ground. Look for "earth-cooled shipping container underground ca home" this concept is very close to your last option which was the umbrella. Did you finally decide on an ideal idea to replace pounding tires?

[@scottabergman]

Could you fill a shipping container with tamped earth as the back wall? You'd need to cut a whole in the top to fill it. It would have a large footprint, but would it be structurally sound? Is the backwall meant to protect against vertical or horizontal pressure, or both?

[@MissMeganBeckett]

@@scottabergman if you cut a hole in the shipping container it isn’t structurally sound anymore.

[@allnaturalhomesteaders]

My husband and I are also thinking about building an earth ship, however we don't want to pound tires all day long either, and idk if I could do it. However we're thinking about using straw bale's to make an earth ship home. Like a cob house, but with straw bale's, walls would still be 2ft thick then. And you wouldn't have to insulate because that's what the bails do. Anyway what do you think about straw bales?

[@matt-justice]

Front walls maybe, but I wouldn't build the back retaining wall out of anything like that.

[@stevensauvageau8827]

I was considering that as well, but while straw bales are excellent at insulation, they don't have the thermal mass that keeps these homes warm all night.

[@allnaturalhomesteaders]

@@stevensauvageau8827 what's the difference between insulation rate, and thermal mass? I was also considering building the back wall, down in the ground, then lining the dirt back wall with strawbales. Then there's no wind. I currently live in southern VA, on the NC line, by Roanoke rapids NC. However we're selling our land, and buying at least 10 acres in Missouri! No zoning laws! And buying raw land, we're going to go completely off grid, cheaper then traditional utilities and no monthly payments! However the house itself, and the land itself, we're looking for a lot full of timber, so we can harvest and sell the wood as needed, so around the house won't have a lot of light, however enough because we are also going to make some pastures, we just don't want to be seen from the road. So trees in the front of the property and opening as you travel back. So I'm wondering if it's possible to dig down into the ground, then do straw bale's, so the actual retaining wall, would be the ground itself. And the straw would be for insulation purposes only. Of course built on top of a concrete slab, with proper drainage under it. I know it's possible. I think. 😂, Built like an earthship, glass windows in the front. All recycled water. And solar of course. A cook stove and either fireplace or Wood stove for heat in the winter.

[@jimmytaylor1279]

@@allnaturalhomesteaders The idea is that your building faces south so the sun only comes in during the winter when you need the heat. the tire wall (thermal Mass) absorbs the heat and then releases it when the sun goes down. If you used an insulating medium you would not end up saving that heat and have to heat your home at night. It's a thermal battery.

[@bruceme101]

Similarly, I too went to Taus, I too stayed in an earthship and I too decided life is too short to pound tires for 18mo+... a guy in Australia used a jumping jack rigged to a back hoe that really sped up the process ~5min per. But I'm looking at formed rammed earth. Tires are really just steel/ rubber reinforced rammed earth.

[@rongray4118]

That man had the correct idea with pounding and stacking - I saw the video as well...wow!

[@daniluchison]

The only issue would be if the rammed wall would be strong enough to contain the massive amount of dirt behind the wall!

[@fishnchipsforme]

Do you have the link to the video? I've tried searching for it without success.

[@Embassy_of_Jupiter]

What about using mechanically stabilized earth like used in civil engineering for the mound? (like seen in Practical Engineering's video) Wouldn't that mean the wall can be thinner, therefore cheaper?

[@treadless_co]

agreed

[@johnswartz7872]

I would use sharpen stakes of rebar to attach the layers together and to attach the first layer to the ground I would also try to get some good glue that would glue them together I think that PL800 would do it ..but I have yet to try it

[@kevinhansen7371]

How about 2 rows of cmu block instead of one and pour mud into wall after or in two stages

[@michaeltaylor8084]

I'm thinking precast concrete walls such as a double tee would be a great alternative ... But expansion may be a real issue if the building is very big ... Interlocking into the back fill would help mechanically stabilize the wall and the fill .these could be ordered and set in no time at all ..

[@Clint101]

Matt you should check out building with tire bails. It's just as cheap as building with normal tires but without pounding a ton of dirt. Just look up "earthship with tires bails" and you'll find some examples, I'm in colorado and quite a bit of people have built with that method.

[@johnhoward7298]

I saw a video on KZbin where someone built a earthship with large bales of tires . At the time of construction He got the bales for free . ( since then He said there's a nominal charge for them )

[@crenaud590]

The tire and dirt wall at the back is not only 'instead of a foundation', it serves 3 important purposes; - protects from the worst weather in winter (mimics an underground home) - provides air conditioning in the summer (via 15 - 20 ft tubes) - mainly it serves as a HEAT reservoir in the winter, to be able to use only solar to bring the temps up from 58F to 70F in the winter, because it mimics being underground or partially buried. So, I don't think eliminating the dirt BERM completely is an option IMO. But I have been thinking of other alternatives to tires to fill the berm of dirt with. I believe that I still need the berm (15 - 20 feet long), I just don't think I will have the work force necessary to pound 750? tires. I was wondering if just doing the first few courses in tires, then the rest with cedar wood stacked or even bricks or hempcrete bricks to fill in the rest.

[@tadayoshiisoya3319]

Caged Rock Gabbions stacked with rio-bar through the middle into some footings below the cages, then coat each face for protection or even leave the inside bare for aesthetics if you like that sort of thing.

[@wescarnegie1711]

I love the Gabion cage (wire mesh baskets filled with rocks) idea. I'm hoping to build a shipping container cabin, buried on three sides and the top. I believe the three sides should be gabion cages, as I really don't want to use any concrete or cement and this seems to be a very low impact solution. Gonna take awhile to sift and pull and load all of the rocks, but they'll be local and easy.

[@tadayoshiisoya3319]

Wes Carnegie If you were in the Sunshine Coast Australia I’d give you a hand. I think it’s a good idea, but I’d suggest a hard bottom underneath them for water to seep and flow to and out away from the shipping containers, perhaps into a submerged ferrocrete water tank nearby?? Just an idea :)

[@sinksalot8860]

Load bearing for earth sheltered roof is almost as important as footings. Engineering will protect your investment. (Retired building inspector).

[@BowenOrg]

So true but, many of the Earthships are now built with metal roofs so they can capture water. We plan on building our home in the Pacific NW so we're not worried about water... so we're going to hire an engineer for our earth-bermed home... including the roof!

[@sinksalot8860]

@@BowenOrg Good idea. I would capture water from our roof areas too, but Colorado won't let us. I tend to overbuild things (even before being a building inspector) I did build an engineered floor system at our cabin exactly to plan but I agreed with the engineering. Good luck and enjoy!

[@BowenOrg]

@@sinksalot8860 Dear SinksALot.... thanks for the feedback... I would file lawsuits against the State of CO because it states in all legal definitions of real estate ownership that the owner "owns everything straight up and straight down, contingent upon whether or not the mineral rights and "ground" water rights have been sold!" Everyone has the legal right to collect rain water! Governments DON'T own rain water... no matter what "BS" they give you! Dittos to you! : )

[@desertdweller9255]

I despise pounding tires! It's really hard!

[@RVBadlands2015]

We where in one in Mohave county and it had a lot of off gassing. So, we did Strawbale instead.

[@1987Confused]

I've been thinking about a way to mechanize building the tire wall has anyone tried a tractor with a bucket on the front and tamper foot like the jackhammers you can get that on a 3 point hitch

[@jaredthibodaux6796]

Most ICF has an 8" core you can get them in 4 and 6 inch but 8 is the standard and that has a strength to spare. The downside of an 8" core is the shocking amount of weight involved that requires a beefy concrete foundation.

[@williamofdallas]

What about earthbags?

[@jassonford7269]

How about earth bags and or railroad ties

[@kentpeters9542]

What does ICF and CMU stand for?

[@kennethnormanthompson2740]

My thoughts exactly. This video would have been much more interesting slowed down and without the jargon.

[@momentoffaith2735]

Has anyone tried cutting one side off the tire and then packing with dirt?

[@manuelbettencourt4213]

Eco blocks?

[@justinguest3911]

Shipping containers?

[@stevekillick6260]

Have you started building your earthship?

[@jimgagnepain7708]

Tire bales. There is ZERO issue with off-gassing. We shotcreted over the bales, and then adobe'd the interior wall. I have yet to smell any rubber in any earthship that I've visited. Check out my bermed-earth tire-bale home on KZbin. Tire bales were stacked in one day with a skid steer. They are about 5'x5'x2-1/2' High, and weigh about a ton each.

[@ornarvaezjr]

Look into possibly using aircrete as an alternative.

[@johnswartz7872]

Dry stack wall if you use the correct glue would be amazing I think PO 800 would do it I’m about ready to try that for sure... If that did work you could actually use sand and water to fill the layers instead of all that pounding

[@kennethkustren9381]

TampedEarth Walls. I've seen 2 very beautiful buildings. Methinks... Sodium Silicate would work well here too.