Eastenders - Mark and Arthur argue

Arthur disowns Mark after he finds out he is HIV positive .Gritty scenes from the early 90`s featuring a strong performance from Todd Carty.

[@Aerojet01]

Credit to Todd Carty and Bill Treacher. They could really act. Modern soap stars could learn one or two things.

[@wolfgang7812]

I wonder how Mark's Dad would have reacted if he was told Mark tested positive for CoVid-19???

[@harryraiswell2158]

I think Arthur probably would've smashed up the whole of Albert Square, a bit like how in Coronation Street, when David Platt smashed up the whole of the street, after discovering that Tina McIntyre had an abortion! 😂

[@STEJTHEGREATEST]

Maybe he would've been like, "Oh, so you caught the ghost illness did you?????? Woooooo, so scary!!!! Alright, back to work."

[@arserobinson7118]

the new aids

[@listentothenightfilms]

PROPPA FULL-BLOWN COVID!!!

[@BubbleLush16]

😷 🤣

[@jokinra]

Great performance from Bill and Todd, they're 2 great legends.

[@cherylstevens4717]

Now bill has joined the other eastenders characters in heaven.

[@nobodyshome4633]

I’d gracefully spend the rest of my life with a Man like Mark Fowler. Definitely one of the greatest EE characters of all time. Brilliantly acted and brilliantly written x

[@hussainmartins5985]

Say that to Lisa.

[@cherylstevens4717]

@@hussainmartins5985 That photo of mark is funny

[@briangrant8363]

@@hussainmartins5985 haha! she couldn't act her way out of a paper bag!....a most annoying character, moan, moan, whingeing and shouting....bloody annoying.

[@97channel]

EastEnders was a foremost force in educating about a frightening new disease and how or not it could be transmitted. Mark Fowler was also given a full character to be portrayed, he wasn't just "the one with HIV". The issue was a thread in his life, but not the only thing they ever wrote about. Powerful stuff.

[@kelsian_smith03]

I loved and still love the character Mark he was outspoken when he needed to be and just a great character overall.

[@cherylstevens4717]

Todd was fantastic on the Bill

[@ForestKicks]

Todd Carty is such a good actor

[@cherylstevens4717]

Todd carty is absolutely fantastic as gabriel kent on the bill.

[@kevinprior3549]

​@@cherylstevens4717and Tucker of course on Grange Hill

[@angelasmithson5291]

@@kevinprior3549 Yes, he really grew up didn't he!!☺

[@russellthompson9271]

He even had a part in 1983 Fantasy movie KRULL!

[@LawnMowersThingsThatMakeNoise]

Two acting legends 🙂

[@shanefolan]

its amazing what a soap story can achieve and the massive impact it can have on people,a friend of mine got the virus in 2008 at the age of 23 and he recalled these episodes from a child when he watched them with his mum-he always recalled these eps 17 years on and related them to him

[@MikeStarKaraokeUK]

Good acting. He sure played the Dad from hell in this part. 😂

[@kieranryan4335]

These old episodes are so charming x

[@paulwills4253]

No pudding for u until ur plates cleared

[@harryraiswell2158]

Mark should've done "Here comes the airoplane" to Arthur! 😉

[@chrisrowe7503]

I think this was the moment at the allotment Mark realised Arthur was simply scared and genuinely didn't know anything about HIV more than being ignorant. When he said to keep it to themselves he was merely protecting his son. This was so sad for all those concerned. Mark, Pauline and Arthur.

[@jamie25288]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqPLmmaVg9unabc

[@thesubtleface]

I had forgotten just how good an actor Bill Treacher was in Eastenders!

[@kevinprior3549]

Brilliant acting by Treacher and Carty

[@alexanderjones9572]

Mark " Think we ought to tell 'er? (Kathy)" Pauline " About what?" Mark " About what's 'is name...Wilmott Brown." And unfortunately, Wilmott Brown outlived Mark, Arthur AND Pauline!

[@STEJTHEGREATEST]

He's probably one of the lizard people.

[@abbieroseholden4174]

I feel like the Fowlers and Beales never really got their exits that they deserved Pete, Arthur, Mark and even Pauline deserved way better exits they were the originals

[@HarryPotter-me4ww]

Brilliant Acting father and son

[@arserobinson7118]

Raised the issue of how ill=informed people were about hiv and how the media portrayed those infected in an extremely bad light

[@Keibro]

This was a brilliant storyline. It's a shame they had to kill Mark off the way they did.

[@stephenmcconnell1000]

They've since admitted that it was probably a bad decision as by 2004, with the right medication, people were beginning to have the chance to live indefinitely with HIV. However, you can understand why from a story point of view why they killed off the character as it brought his story full circle.

[@cherylstevens4717]

It's pc gabriel kent from the bill? Todd carty played that role fantasticly well. Gabriel was hilarious on the bill.

[@tijindersingh5635]

I really miss The Fowlers. Imo the best family ever in EE as well as being the Hart and soul of the show.

[@riverbankjohn]

followed todd carty all the way thru grange hill, tuckers luck and east enders. i think the way they depicted this was brilliant because this was what was happening in the country and Arthurs attitude or lack of understanding wasnt uncommon. Well done guys

[@kevinprior3549]

John Tinsley did you like him when he was on The Bill

[@therebel4332]

But you can understand the worries they had? It can be passed on thru many ways not just what the news tells you. For a kick off saliva is one way.

[@beverlygannon4141]

Yeh

[@jsmithmultimediatech]

@@therebel4332 That's categorically incorrect actually saliva isn't one way at all.

[@jsmithmultimediatech]

Is true what Arthur said, within the first say few weeks of contracting HIV (after is completely useless) after taking some form of drug can actually be reversed.

[@trevorthompson7604]

Bill and Todd were amazing in this scene

[@STEJTHEGREATEST]

Todd Carty with his looks back then could've been in a boyband before all the depressing Eastenders storylines aged him prematurely!!!! ;*(

[@shanefolan]

he was never really boyband material.

[@angelasmithson5291]

Yes, he is very sexy!! 💋😍🙂

[@never152]

Yeah I don't remember him looking good. He's fit here.

[@Makle84]

The scene in the kitchen is hands down the best scene ive seen in Eastenders period! Especially if you follow Mark's story from when he returned.

[@never152]

God these scenes are still so hard to watch.

[@tijindersingh4928]

So sad that EE will never be this great again.

[@funkydinosaur5651]

@Stay Classy tbh the past 2 years have been pretty good ngl

[@alannahfidler3418]

Stay Classy that’s true but for me Eastenders has never really been the same since 2002/3

[@iwillb3inurcmm3nts3ction7]

@@funkydinosaur5651 gayup

[@simondelaney6483]

Class scenes

[@markryan792]

Godbless mark. Very good acting 💯

[@Suelovesboo]

People tend to forget this was when we 1st knew about HIV and aids . People was scared back then .

[@MikeNewlyn]

Great actors, bill treacher I will never forget :)

[@harryraiswell2158]

Gosh, the acting between Bill Treacher and Todd Carty seems scarringly real. Shame neither of them do any acting these days.

[@shanefolan9175]

Doesn't Carty still act?

[@harryraiswell2158]

@@shanefolan9175 I've just looked at his filmography section on his Wikipedia page he hasn't done anything since 2019, but it might just be because he's struggled looking for work since the pandemic.

[@shanefolan9175]

@@harryraiswell2158 Yea I think he worked more in theatre which was hit during covid. Having said that, he could be taking a break, for all we know he could have invested in property etc and be working on that. I can imagine acting especially theatre is an exhausting and time consuming job.

[@harryraiswell2158]

@@shanefolan9175 oh right I see. I watched a clip of him on This Morning once and he was saying that if he was in Corrie that he might play a distant relative of Mike Baldwin given that he's from London, so that would be quite interesting for me to watch as I love Corrie and know quite a few things about EastEnders too.

[@shanefolan9175]

@@harryraiswell2158 I quit Corrie around late 2010 after watching it from mid 2002 and never got back into it really. Watched a little bit around around 14-15 but pretty much quit it after that. Watched Eastenders from late 2001-2020 then quit it over lockdown 2020 and will probs never go back to it. Can't be bothered with soaps anymore.

[@redfield1007]

" some sorta woofta " Jesus my fucking sides!!

[@user-oh5zw5mn5u]

I remember, this.

[@DVDgal75]

EE was never the same without The Fowlers :(

[@amrikaulak3568]

V true fowlers beales butchers and the Watts and nick Cotton nw it's just rubbish

[@famouswarrior327]

@@amrikaulak3568 went bad with expansion of the Slaters and from bad to absolute worse, with the expansion of the Brannings

[@prochoicenotantivax119]

Mark reaches expert level trolling in this scene

[@LordMarvin1993]

It's amazing how far we've come with HIV treatments

[@angelaandersons7918]

I Really admire these Scenes, Mark's soliloquy as his dad treats him like a leper, he educates too as he explains how HIV can't be transmitted by contact with cups, forks, plates, then he loses his temper at the end... hiss father openly being stubborn, scared and horrified at once, poor Pauline caught up in the middle as usual .. phenomenal!

[@DJDonnelly]

R.I.P Bill

[@cherylstevens4717]

Bill has gone up to heaven to join the angels.

[@user-ew4pt2bp5g]

Hey it's pc gabriel kent from the bill he was fantastic on that program.

[@Roo408]

So adorable these old story lines x

[@TRIGMASTER06]

People may have a go at Arthur here but his reaction wasnt that shocking for this time period and looking back at it now Mark really did try and push Arthurs buttons i mean everyone reacts differently he should of given him time to digest it. Yes Arthur was not very supporting but he was in the end if i remember right.

[@zaramariadixon5035]

TRIGMASTER06 I agree. I think alot people were ignorant where HIV was concerned in those days and the way they played it out was true to how it was I believe people didn't understand the difference between HIV and AIDS and I think the way EastEnders did it helped alot of people really get it well done to all involved it was very well done.

[@gazzyb1079]

The back story to this were father and son were always at loggerheads and it lead up perfectly to this eruption

[@ichoosejoy2712]

Even for then his reaction, was absolutely despicable. He told him to leave and never come back for Christ's sake. Worst father and worst husband.

[@AdamA-qc6nc]

In what way was he right? You can't catch HIV like that in any way. The only thing he was right about were people's opinions although people came to accept it eventually and by the end Mark had plenty of friends in the square.

[@prochoicenotantivax119]

Arthur's face when mark says after all I made it

[@chokesmc]

Next they'll be thinking you're some sort of woofter! How times have changed

[@zoedark7101]

I remember the original Mark.

[@MarkGenner-xz4zu]

Good Old Mr Mark Fowler R.I.P

[@kevinprior3549]

Dear old fella at the end

[@1991-present]

That sandwich small as hell!

[@harryraiswell2158]

Just like Arthur was too! 😂

[@Harris665]

I’ve stopped watching eastenders now because I’m watching the old episodes and it was so real back then just real people with real problems.. not like now...

[@briangrant8363]

totally agree.

[@rocksoliddude1]

arthur played a good part in this

[@BenKellyMusic92]

To try to explain to the younger generations of the paranoia and the hatred of HIV and AIDS

[@jordanbrooks9136]

Ah bloody hell that went from awkward and majorly tense to calm and reconciling between father and son straight back to where they started, did Arthur actually get a clue about what Mark was going through with his illness? I should imagine he did.

[@suesmith3744]

People were so ignorant and afraid about HIV back in those days ... Thank goodness things have moved on .

[@alexjones1985]

Whilst I do sympathise with Mark, he shouldn't have taunted Arthur the way he did.

[@eloisemidgen5324]

I disagree, Ignorance about HIV may have been common - but Arthur's behaviour is out of order. He had no reason to be so angry with Mark.

[@therebel4332]

Eloise Midgen his behaviour isnt out of order, hes worried about catching the virus. All this ignorent bs is bollocks, if someone has hiv and its going to go full blown aids in the future your bound to bloody worry they might pass it on. I feel sorry for people with it but sorry im looking out for number 1 in that scenario, forget the namby pamby state.

[@d-amour]

Either way you can't catch HIV my being in contact with someone, so yes t is ignorance. The point of this storyline was to show the ignorance towards HIV and how people assume its the same as AIDS

[@zaramariadixon5035]

I disagree Mark got HIV through no fault of his own and above EVERYONE you should be able to rely on your family parents especially! To be there for you and support you no matter what not be ready to kick you when you're down he wasn't taunting him as such he was lashing out because he was upset that his own father could treat him like that over something that is nit his fault. Arthur was bang out of order!.

[@zaramariadixon5035]

That's your opinion that's cool but I'm sorry I totally disagree if someone in my family who I love were to get that as Mark did it wouldn't make me love them any less or treat them any different or cringe away from them I'd hold on to them tighter because they're still the same person I can't imagine the guts it takes someone to admit that to people closest to them that they love and how scared they must be and I'm sure it's hard enough being given a death sentence like that without ignorant people sticking the boot in.

[@prochoicenotantivax119]

Who has cheese for desert cheese is savoury you need something sweet for desert

[@laminage]

On the US Soap Opera All My Children Stuart Chandler The Twin Brother of Adam Chandler was discouraged from dating a lady named Cindy who had AIDS. she got it from her former husband who was a drug addict and his blood infected her. It was the 1980's. David Canary who played The Twins did a brilliant job that you sometimes forgot it was the same person playing two parts. Stuart was a little slow but not special needs. He lost a slight amount of oxygen in his brain when he was born. Eventually Adam came around, he and Cindy got married, and sadly enough she would die. The most heartbreaking scene was when Stuart was in their home and he happily looked up at the Portrait he made for her and he cried, tears of sadness that she was gone but happiness that she was no longer suffering. If this were a US Soap, they would have gotten scene of the week, or Editor's Choice.

[@mysteriousmat]

Imagine this 2021 with covid 19

[@bensmithkent22]

9:53 arthurs worst fears finally come out 🤣🤣

[@SteMcgarry-xy5gb]

I remember my dad stopped shaking hands in church when he heard about Hiv

[@kevinprior3549]

Hope Susan Tully returns as Michelle

[@harryraiswell2158]

Me too, Jenna Russell was absolutely shit playing her.

[@stephenmcconnell1000]

Unfortunately that ship has sailed

[@jamiedodger7830]

Arthur was a good man

[@paulbennett1860]

He was a loser

[@harryraiswell2158]

@@paulbennett1860, he was usually a decent man, just really angry about Mark having AIDS, but eventually calmed down. I bet he would've been absolutely raging if he was still alive when Peggy threw Mark out of the Vic because of his illness.

[@planesteve]

Arthur in the sink

[@tijindersingh5635]

I miss the Fowlers in EE. The show hasn't been the same without them. I know Michelle and Martin are still in the show but it's still not the same without Arthur, Pauline and my favourite Mark Fowler.

[@monalisasmile6629]

Tijinder Singh I still miss the original Michelle and James Alexandrou - the actor who played Martin the longest and the best. The original Martin didn't do much lol.

[@jaywest3734]

Not the same Michelle or Martin so doesn't count.

[@harryraiswell2158]

Imagine if Arthur, Pauline and Mark met the Taylors! 😂 😂 😂

[@colinluby5950]

It was a sad end really

[@DVDgal75]

Yes..Mark did die (of AIDS) in the show.

[@shanefolan]

arthur looks like the lion from the wizard of oz

[@ScaryStories604]

Around the time this Storyline Was In the Show In 1991 Freddie Mercury Was Dying of AIDS I wonder If they Wanted to Respect Him by having Mark getting it. Cleverly done. Eastenders

[@marcustibbs2803]

RIP Wendy

[@kevinprior3549]

I didnt know Treacher played Suzi's dad on Grange Hill... same time Tucker was still in it.

[@harryraiswell2158]

Yeah, I only knew that a couple of months ago. I was watching series 2 of Grange Hill which was back in 1979, and noticed that Arthur (Bill Treacher) was in a couple of episodes! 😂

[@prochoicenotantivax119]

Poor Arthur it's just not fair he just wanted his dinner

[@stephenmcconnell1000]

Bit weird having stew with nuffink to go wiv it! Wilmott BRAAAHHN would probably have spuds wiv 'iz...

[@monalisasmile6629]

Stephen O'Donnell lol

[@timryan8931]

Where's the carrutz ?

[@beverlygannon4141]

Yeh ha ha

[@beverlygannon4141]

@@timryan8931 ha ha

[@tecsmith_info]

you fackin woofter

[@AbsintheGirl27]

Remember this episode very well, cos I was always so scared of HIV (ironically enough waiting for my own test results now at the age of 29) Arthur was a bastard to Mark grrrrrrr.

[@jane1975]

@Absinthe Pretty, it was of its time and the show wanted to portray the prejudices and stigma towards HIV in particularly with people whom were ignorant of the facts about the disease, and because HIV and AIDS were commonly associated with promiscuous behaviour, particularly from homosexual and bisexual activity and drug abuse that it cemented these prejudices towards gays and the condition. Of course in Mark's case, he wasn't gay or promiscuous so this also helped highlight the fact that anyone could contract the disease through no fault of their own[ in the case of Mark his girlfriend, Jill contracted it herself and passed it on to him- I think she cheated on him or took drugs, but I am not sure whether they said how she got it in the show]. Arthur came round eventually, you forget he was of a different generation and old fashioned, he was also afraid not only of Mark's illness, but of losing him too and so he was angry and projected that anger towards Mark but really he was just frightened that Mark had a condition that would eventually take his life. Ironically, Mark despite his condition, outlived his father as Arthur suffered a brain bleed from a being assaulted during a riot in prison after his release.

[@stephenmcconnell1000]

@@jane1975 it was never actually confirmed in the story that Mark contracted it from Gill. They both eventually accepted that they didn't know which one of them passed it onto the other. The storyliners no doubt settled on this resolution because getting across a message of vigilance and prevention is more important than an outcome which seems to apportion 'blame'.

[@Perfectpearl]

2:49-3:15 Pops is hilarious

[@user-yh5xl4vu6w]

Brilliant acting between bill treacher and todd carty and they went to the terence hoggins trust to talk to people who have hiv they done their research to the storyline

[@prochoicenotantivax119]

Why would going to the shop and buying a desert be considered a miracle

[@ianbyrne5298]

It seemed so depressing at the Fowlers house! They were so miserable all the time! The only thing poor Arthur looked forward to was his allotment! That's where he died! He loved Walford though!

[@edwardburnsen-hicks4235]

Crime like Aids . Together we'll crack it.

[@nathanchristie8881]

Mark vs Arthur

[@innovativeinnovation6629]

Wendy also really acted this very well, from the start. She acted very mumsy, like old fashon women did back then---don't let Dad know.

[@paulwills4253]

Better not we will only have to disinfect the pen

[@kevinprior3549]

Arthur was just being silly

[@startracker5895]

Seems rather odd and out of character that Arthur wasn’t remotely worried that his son would most likely die. He only cared about catching aids himself.

[@P1mpMyBr1de]

His dad was right when they were having a cuppa in the shed. Of course you should keep such information in the family. The stigma in the community can get you into a lot of trouble

[@ShanaiCollins]

@TheGooners11 way to be homophobic

[@zaramariadixon5035]

TheGooners11 That's pure ignorance !!

[@zaramariadixon5035]

I don't think he was right at all "we can always say it's cancer" at the end of the day it wasn't Mark's fault and he had nothing to be a ashamed of okay ya don't go advertising it but if people found out which they did and they were too ignorant to see past the illness and just see the person who's been given death sentence and jump to conclusions then B****cks to em!! Really felt for Mark ere bless him above all ya should be able to depend on your parents support it should go without saying really I think the way EE handled it was brilliant.

[@ShanaiCollins]

@@@zaramariadixon5035 Well said!!!!

[@zaramariadixon5035]

Shanai Eliza Jane Collins Thanks very much:-)

[@jamesmartincmccormick1884]

How could Pauline finish that in that amount of time.

[@harryraiswell2158]

I'd imagine they would've gone to a different scene, when she was eating her dinner! 😆

[@TheKonga88]

They were putting up the Christmas decorations and a dolly stole their hands so they couldn't eat anymore baby frogs.. Why did they want to eat those baby frogs anyway ?? Poor little things. 🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸

[@irishgirl379]

Some people are so naive you can't catch it by touching the person or by what they touched

[@startracker5895]

People didn’t know in those days.

[@peterah7957]

Haven't watched eastenders since this period... I tried once but it's a depressing mess!

[@midnightstar1996]

I haven't watched it in two years. Tried the same thing but couldn't get into it. Now I just watch old episodes.

[@fretboardmaster70]

Arthur’s face 😂😂😂😂 What a Wanker

[@angelkingston2312]

And no there doing this story again with zack

[@alberttatlock5237]

Marks really got a chip on his shoulder, like he wants the world to know he's H.I.V postive, And can't comprehend how his father's generation will see it. Like Arfur said, people will think he's either a junkie or a woofer

[@harryraiswell2158]

Hello "Uncle" Albert, you should be watching Coronation Street, not EastEnders! 😱 😂

[@jhibbitt1]

i dont understand what arthur's angry about. i understand that he and a lot of ppl back then apparently didn't know what aids was and arthur thinks it's contagious in such silly ways, but why does that make him angry specifically at mark and want to disown him? i mean sure if i was around someone with a contagious virus, i would want them away from me, but i wouldn't be hating them as a person

[@jimmybisk]

I'm guessing in his ignorance, he probably thought that Mark could have somehow avoided getting it & that by living there, he was putting the whole family at risk. There was so much fear about it when it first emerged, highlighted brilliantly in Eastenders.

[@stephenmcconnell1000]

What it was trying to depict was Arthur's anger at how his son, someone whom he loved, could be so unfortunate to be afflicted by such a condition, and perhaps he was also angry at Mark for allowing himself to contract it.

[@nickyjones2709]

The British have a way of thinking about what everyone else will think. It's all about appearances. My mother is a prime example of this. It's made me the complete opposite. The people she tries to hide things from don't give a damn.So I can understand Mark in these episodes. It was a very worrying time with aids and hiv. Thank god they have got it under control. Next is cancer!!

[@stevenhibbert694]

Arthur was a jerk to mark

[@Aerojet01]

You must remember that Arthur was an old school working class man with basic education and from a different generation to Mark. AIDs or HIV around that time was unknown to most people and not really well understood even by the medical profession. Arthur dealt with the problem best he could.

[@Aerojet01]

Very true. This world can be cruel.

[@kevinprior3549]

Cos he was scared. People still didn’t fully understood how to catch the illness

[@prochoicenotantivax119]

Mark is being such an expert troll in this scene

[@Perfectpearl]

5:50 Don’t get quiet now

[@MikeStarKaraokeUK]

Mark was like the Terminator here. Don't worry Arthur you won't catch anything from bone China plates or cutlery from my draws. But Mark how do I no? Arthur you can wash with Daz it's hopeless I tried in the laundrette.

[@user-cw5qp7ty9t]

Look how tiny arthur's sandwich is lol that paper bag is far too big for it 😅

[@ELPaso1990TX]

4:50 AIDS or HIV doesn't actually ooze out of the skin. The virus requires an exchange of bodily fluids from an infected carrier, such as sharing dirty syringes etc.

[@kwesiidun1913]

ELPaso1990TX Mark was being sarcastic to make a point. God, you're thick.

[@Charlotte-eo2bn]

Back in those days so little was known about AIDS and HIV that there probably were people who believed that

[@Hulk2k6]

The world was SO Ignorant about HIV/AIDS back then

[@andrethomas7075]

ELPaso1990TX to be fair Arthur was a bit thick though, how was he to know.

[@letmelivegaming]

How did lisa manage to convince him that it was a good thing her being pregnant when she tried to pass it off as his

[@Perfectpearl]

6:01 You’re touching it now