Eastern Catholicism Refutes Rome

[@RochesFan]

I nearly fell off my chair when I first learned that "Eastern Catholics" are actually allowed to maintain their use of the original Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed - without the _filioque_ . What the hell was the point of all those centuries of division then, if it's no longer important to them that those in communion with Rome even share the same damn creed with them?? Apparently it's less important to Catholics that one is even a Nestorian, than that he kisses the Bishop of Rome's ring.

[@PlasmaSnake369]

Yeah well there is a lot of evidence that great schism was largely caused by an ego based shouting match between the Bishops of Rome and Constantinople

[@demetriosch5713]

I'm EO but from what I understand it's just in the creed they don't use it. they still hold the teaching of the philioque.

[@Dosadniste2000]

@@PlasmaSnake369 There is no evidence for what you slander about Bishop of Constantinople, mr forked tongue

[@PlasmaSnake369]

@@Dosadniste2000 Politics always has played a role in every schism in history. The theological aspects of the filioque were not as important as the fact that Constantinople just didn't like Rome having the authority to dictate theology to them. For centuries the Pope in Rome was chosen by the emperor in Constantinople. But after an emperors iconoclast heresy, Muslim conquests, and the crowning of Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor that all changed. Over time Bishop's in Constantinople became increasingly resentful of being under the authority of the Bishop of Rome. And yes, all historical records show that the filioque resulted in a shouting match between these Bishop's.

[@PlasmaSnake369]

@JL-CptAtom I'm talking about the schism in terms of cause and effect. The politics was a more important cause than the theology in regards to the schism.

[@seekingtruth5637]

I have left Roman Catholism now converting to eastren orthodox, I believe without a doubt the orthodox church is the true faith

[@ConradThePalamite]

🙏🙏

[@marcokite]

me too! ☦☦☦

[@JayDyer]

Devastating

[@ddawg6482]

@@jackodell8497 It's not B.S. All of you engage in personal attacks and rhetoric because you're getting the snot beat out of you with pure unadulterated Orthodox truth. You knee-jerk papists and tradcath clowns can't handle being forcibly spewed out of your little apostate echo chamber bubble. You ignore the plain truth right before your eyes while perversely embracing a shallow-pate casuistry in its stead, all in the service of the most grotesque, ridiculous apostasy. Tragic.

[@ddawg6482]

It's not pride to expose heresy and heretics, particularly when they've been as aggressive (and violent) in imposing their heresy and the Popes have been. Attempting to mislead people into staying in an apostate church with propaganda and idiot arguments while at the same time sanctimoniously lecturing those who speak truth on their "lack of humility" is, by contrast, the apotheosis of "spiritual pride"

[@ddawg6482]

@@jackodell8497 Where do I begin? Apparently you haven't even watched the above video.

[@Nina_Mo2]

I am yet to find an intelligent or dignified response beyond name calling.

[@shayneswenson]

Jack Odell You realize the link you shared is of a monk who holds all the same positions Jay does, right? Have you even listened to any of those lectures?

[@SeminoleFanatic111]

Thanks for posting this video. As a former Roman Catholic myself who is now an Orthodox Christian, this video is very informative proving that Orthodoxy and Catholicism do not mix. Im so glad I came across this video and the fact that im an Orthodox christian.

[@rithinsiby2653]

As a eastern catholic I find this video stupid made on poor research on our tradition and church.

[@gravelroad1228]

@@rithinsiby2653 What was wrong in the video? If it is indeed true that you venerate St. Gregory Palamas, St. Mark of Ephesus, St. Photios, then the point made by David here stands perfectly.

[@rithinsiby2653]

@@gravelroad1228 we don't venerate any of them .

[@rithinsiby2653]

@@gravelroad1228 the first problem raised on filoque ,the Roman church affirm the same truth as orthodox ,they only differ in terminology,the problem comes roman and east has two different starting point ,if you have doubt read st. maximus the confessor, secondly I am part of the church who venerate nestorius,we only agree on his theology that Christ is fully human and fully God United through his person ,we but affirm virgin mary is mother of God ,if you have doubt read the council that made nestorius heretic ,they agreed on nestorius on christology but affirmed the proper title of Mary, thirdly there is no rule that there should one single way of expressing same truth,this has never been in history of church,the real distinction between catholic and orthodox is on papacy .

[@aceraphael]

I am an eastern Catholic and this video is funny...a real joke...

[@briandenison2325]

From a Roman point of view I don't see how they would think praying in Orthodox churches would be wrong, after all their own Bishop (whos supposed to be infallible) prays with infidels in Mosques and with Hindu pagans.

[@age234]

The only Creed of the Roman Church is "submit to the Pope." Everything else goes.

[@Bleakfacts]

@Jack Odell Not to the devil....

[@age234]

@@jackodell8497 We are sheep, but RATIONAL sheep. Blind obedience is denial of the Holy Spirit.

[@sahmofboys]

The second Vatican Council contradicts this statement. The "Primacy of Conscience" idea was put out by that council and it tells people that their informed conscience is even more important than church teachings. Pope Francis has shown that he believes this on many occasions. Most Roman Catholics in the world rely on this "primacy of conscience" thing pretty heavily. The trad Catholics hate it (just like they hate the entire second Vatican Council). The bottom line is that Eastern Catholic Churches can easily follow their own beliefs and not be "in trouble." I'm not trying to make anyone Catholic-- just explaining the position.

[@theophan9530]

@@melroycorrea7720 This doesn't make any sense : the faith of the Church IS the faith of its members, who enter in the Church by confessing this faith. If one doesn't share in his "inviolable conscience" the faith of his church, then he or she should create his or her own church according to his or her liking (what most protestants do and that leads to nothing), or go to another church with whose faith he or she agrees in all his or her conscience. How can you be "Roman Catholic" and not confess the "Roman Catholic" faith? In the Orthodox Church at least we are clear on that point, as were the Fathers of the Church and the Holy Ecumenical Councils. St Paul says there is One Christ, One Church confessing One Faith around One Eucharist. That is also the Orthodox view.

[@order_truth_involvement6135]

“Just be Orthodox” ☦️☦️☦️😎😎😎

[@dawlatulislamiyahbaqiya]

We are Orthodox! Because you emperor in the acts of the Constantinople III Council he called the Pope, God-instructed and Holy Pope

[@saullustre6733]

@@dawlatulislamiyahbaqiya oh yeah, Francis representing the office of Peter real well right now huh 😂

[@dawlatulislamiyahbaqiya]

@@saullustre6733 means nothing lol

[@saullustre6733]

@@dawlatulislamiyahbaqiya cope lol. your system is falling apart, and there’s no going back especially after the release of Vatican 1 & 2. Alexandria & Chieti are even more detrimental for you

[@wtsri]

Thank you for this very timely video! Rome's Uniate conundrum should serve as a warning for all those Orthodox who are willing to "agree to disagree" in order to achieve "unity" with Papists, Monophysites etc.

[@theophan9530]

Indeed, we should insist on the fact that the unity of the Church isn't "to be achieved" between orthodox and heretics, but IS in the Church of God, as an essential attribute. Whoever wants to partake of that unity should deny heresies and confess the orthodox faith, become a true member of the Body of Christ, and not wait for the Pope or the Catholicos or anyone of the clergy to do it for him or her. Unity IS ACHIEVED in the Mystical Body of Christ since the Incarnation, Crucifixion, Resurrection and Pentecost, in this Body which is One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Orthodox (essential attributes which cannot be parted).

[@david_porthouse]

There are hundreds of millions of Latin Catholics who simply won’t have a clue what you are talking about and will have no sensation of being refuted.

[@letruweldonothsa2622]

It's so sad! His point is exactly right. But it's like arguing with a brick wall

[@Nina_Mo2]

The only truthful defense would be that Eastern Catholicism is seen as an aberration that is being "corrected" over time. I'm glad you made this video...this has been bothering me for a while now. I converted to Orthodoxy from a church where people could (and still can) hold mutually exclusive views and still be both in good standing. I spot that stuff from a mile away.

[@Nina_Mo2]

@@jackodell8497 Lol....I guess that helps you sleep at night. Why did the Church continue to excommunicate heretics then after the Nicene Creed was formulated? Anyway, the Eastern Catholics recite a different creed i.e the original one.

[@JohnKlimakos]

Im a former Eastern Catholic now Orthodox. The E.C.s say they are "Orthodox in communion with Rome" when in reality they have become Latins with an iconostasis. They look to Rome for everything and have lost all contact with their mother church of Orthodoxy. Great video.

[@AndrD1406]

apostacy

[@basilmakedon]

I've always described EC as "Roman Catholics that dress up like the Orthodox." Latins with an iconostasis is a good one. Congrats on joining the true Faith

[@thane816]

I fell out of my chair this New Year's Eve when I met my niece's husband, and he said they found a Byzantine Church they'd like to go to (they are Catholic). God help me save him by showing him this and Jay Dyer's anti-Byzantine videos.

[@letruweldonothsa2622]

It's so weird, because I see western, Roman catholic Churches starting to use more Byzantine elements. Like, in Arizona no less, I've seen multiple churches with just straight up icons. It's weird.

[@thane816]

@@letruweldonothsa2622 It won't do them a bit of good unless they return to healing the nous instead of using rationalism. But if you mention the nous, they won't know what you're talking about. That's why we have to tell them about it and pray they are led to Holy Orthodoxy.

[@letruweldonothsa2622]

@@thane816 no no I don't disagree, I'm just saying it's bizarre

[@thane816]

@@letruweldonothsa2622 yeah, it's bizarre.

[@LadyMaria]

​@@letruweldonothsa2622My old RC Parish has icons now too.

[@OrthodoxKyle]

☦☦

[@ultravegito4339]

Ayyoo broo

[@WaffleusRex]

You were the one who brought to my attention that the Vatican used to have the Nicene Creed without the Filioque engraved on a big silver table and on display. I don't understand all those arguments about hypostasis and whatnot yet but I can see that it wasn't there before and now it is.

[@tonypp10]

Good video. But you forgot to mention that copt uniates venerate Severus of Antioch and the fact that Pope Francis canonized as a doctor of the church a armenian monophysite (Gregory of Narek). You should mention also about the three roman catholic patriarchs of Antiochia. Maybe you should update this video in a new version...

[@Kim221bbakerSt]

Francis proclaimed that Gregory of Narek as a “Doctor of The Church” is correct. m.vatican.va/content/francescomobile/en/messages/pont-messages/2015/documents/papa-francesco_20150412_messaggio-armeni.html So... what is actually Catholic church believe? Even know their said that one of the father of the monophysite church is “Doctor of The Church”

[@Tsalagi978]

@John Doe in this you're correct. My own Mother Church of Antioch as well as Alexandria signed off on it as well. Eastern Orthodox that is.

[@ALLHEART_]

@John Doe If it was merely a semantic issue, at least if it was originally, the Fathers would not have broke ties with people over it.

[@standev1]

St. Gregory of Narek is Armenian Catholic, not monophysite.

[@AmericanwrCymraeg]

@@standev1 He wasn't, though. He was a member of the Armenian Apostolic Church and never in communion with Rome.

[@j.d.837]

A lot of uniates eventually realize the sham of their position and become Orthodox.

[@hectordanielsanchezcobo7339]

Saint Alexis Toth

[@Tsalagi978]

@Colin Sheehan yet Rome has the problem too or are you feigning ignorance? The Protestant Reformation, Old Catholics, PNC, and Sedaventists. Also Orthodoxy does have a unified voice in faith. You obviously never studied Church history because bishops breaking communion wasn't uncommon. Including the bishop of Rome. They broke communion with one particular bishop yet remained in communion with other bishops who never broke communion with the bishop Rome broke communion with🤦‍♂️

[@Tsalagi978]

I did. I was Melkite.

[@Tsalagi978]

@Colin Sheehan that's a lie and Rome was never the instrument of communion.

[@Tsalagi978]

@Colin Sheehan perhaps you should read the Church Fathers and study Orthodoxy before coming here spouting nonsense even from a Catholic view. I'm a former Catholic (Melkite) so I know both well.

[@mickeymick2861]

Can someone explain to me how there are 3 Catholic Patriarchs of Antioch?

[@isaalmisry6187]

Actually, only in Rome: you notice that their Italo-Albanian Byzantine "church" has no bishop in Rome. Just like none of their three claimants to Alexandria were ever allowed the title of that see: Pope.

[@ericmanchester2165]

Because there are different liturgical traditions/rites. true, there is the ancient expectation of only one bishop per city, but this difficulty has existed for ages because of realities of immigration, etc. It seems one could easily say permitting different ritual hierarchies is a matter of ekonomia.

[@theophan9530]

@@ericmanchester2165 I would say the very concept of "ritual hierarchy" doesn't seem patristic at all: there only is the "sacerdotal hierarchy" of the Church, which should be One in every local Church. Of course the "diaspora situation" calls for temporary "oikonomia", but always keeping in mind that this is anti-canonical and should be resolved as soon as possible. A truly unified local Church should have only one rite and stick to it, under the authority of one bishop (see St Ignatios of Antioch and the Apostolic Canons). Even if a Church accepts several rites (which shouldn't be the case ideally, even to please people), it should have only one bishop, the Image of Christ, the Shepherd of his flock, the symbol of unity.

[@ካ.ደ.መ.Z]

😕😕😕😕

[@joer9156]

​@@theophan9530 not sure I agree 100% on the issue of rites, as many Saints were involved in the development of the Orthodox Western Rite, and while it has issues, when several Saints are all involved in something we should pay attention. However on the issue of Bishops I agree completely. It is nothing short of scandalous that in places like the UK there can be five or more Bishops covering the same territory. It really, really, REALLY needs to be resolved. Ideally there should be a national Church with English as the primary liturgical language, and Slavonic, Greek, Arabic and, I would suggest, Latin, being used to a lesser degree, with foreign languages being phased out as assimilation and the reception of converts increases.

[@adrianwhyatt594]

In practice all Roman Papism has ever insisted upon is accepting Papal Supremacy within the bounds of papally defined belief.

[@adrianwhyatt594]

Keep repeating this! One of your best videos.

[@adamwesselinoff126]

Of course the answer many Catholic traditionalists will give you is that the Eastern Catholics are also suspect. Hence why many of them (my only experience is with the Ukrainians) are becoming more Orthodox and minimising both their own Latinisms and their esteem for the Latin church in general.

[@MrBrimbles]

Uniatism proves that Rome doesn't care what your practices & beliefs are, as long as you pledge allegiance to the papacy. That's what it's all about - bending the knee to the pope.

[@rithinsiby2653]

You are wrong ,we affirm the same doctrine as rome does ,we only have different expression of the same truth. Also we enjoy autonomous governing ,it is wrong to think we are under some kind of enslavement

[@MrBrimbles]

@@rithinsiby2653 "You are wrong ,we affirm the same doctrine as rome does" Does the term "essence-energy distinction" mean anything to you? What about, "filioque"?

[@rithinsiby2653]

@@MrBrimbles first rome doesn't condemn essence energy distinction,since there is no official statement on the issue and since essence energy distinction does not violate the unity of godhead we are allowed to express it,this is true in every church,rome or orthodox or oriental, secondly on issue of filoque rome affirm the orthodox teaching ,the holy spirit proceed from father through son ,and filoque express this same truth in different way,it is due to limitation of Latin language difficulties arises,this is why eastern catholics are allowed to express niceene creed because the problem comes with latin language.

[@MrBrimbles]

@@rithinsiby2653 "first rome doesn't condemn essence energy distinction" Rome says whatever it takes to get more adherents, regardless of whether they're being consistent with previous claims or not. "secondly on issue of filoque rome affirm the orthodox teaching" This is simply a lie. I don't know who taught you all of this, but you've been lied to. Rome is completely untrustworthy, and if you care about the truth you'd do well to disregard what Rome says from now on.

[@rithinsiby2653]

@@MrBrimbles when I said rome affirm orthodox teaching I meant that the father alone is cause of the spirit ,I never said the spirit proceed from father alone,it is heretic to say the spirit proceed from father alone , because there would be no difference in son and spirit,but spirit proceed from father and son ,the abide in father and spirit abide in the son,those who say the spirit proceed from father alone are against church fathers who clearly taught the spirit proceed from father and son.

[@davidfigueroa8188]

5:07 Rome never dogmatized Clerical Celibacy. It is a discipline. There are married Roman Catholic priests.

[@Cobruh_Commander]

Any examples?

[@davidfigueroa8188]

Tyrone McCool www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pope-married-priests-2017-story.html%3f_amp=true Btw, I’m not Catholic anymore. I’m Orthodox now. Just thought I’d share the facts

[@Cobruh_Commander]

@@davidfigueroa8188 Fascinating, thank you. Glory be to God for your arrival. I still have yet to be baptised, just an issue of the quarantine.

[@Alexandru20101991]

Clerical Celibacy was dogmatized by the west at the council of Elvira (4th century). It was a local practice then but in time the west adopted it until today. Saint Paphnutius opposed this practice and considered that to ask this from priests was to consider ourselves better then the apostoles. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paphnutius_of_Thebes

[@davidfigueroa8188]

Alexandru-Vlad Curtasu It was never dogmatized. It’s a discipline.

[@frankpontone2139]

But...but the Church crisis began at Vatican II.

[@Προκείμενον]

Very interesting aspect. Never knew about those contradictions even between western and eastern RCs. God bless!

[@Προκείμενον]

@@jackodell8497 Nicene Creed or *Nicene Creed?

[@whitemakesright2177]

@@jackodell8497 Almost all Protestants hold to the Nicene Creed. Are they Catholics now, too?

[@padraigmcdermott5533]

@george meister troll

[@TheLionTheLambRom1221]

One Holy Catholic Apostolic-these are the marks found in the Creed These are the four MArks of the Church- without them you are not in the church of Christ. One means one government and one doctrine (how they diced up the doctrine through the years is not a matter for this). However- the Orthodox are NOT One in government or teaching- therefore CAN NOT be the Church of Christ. This cherry-picking is disingenuous at best. There are definitely some good points here that do need to be worked out but you will notice most of this confusion comes after VATICAN II- before it was much clear, the heretics were still the heretics before Vatican II- Vatican II certainly is a false council and God will fix that in His Time. Orthodox have tried several times to get together and have failed over and over again due to their different doctrinal views and politics- Let's stop the game. You have to be Catholic- East or West, otherwise, you are outside the Church of Christ. I played this game for 20 years and in the end, by the grace of God, I got out of the schismatic churches and back to the Catholic. Eastern Rites speak of the differences and they accept all the Dogmas of the Catholic Church, including Purgatory- yes, Eastern Catholic churches do pander to Eastern Orthodox all the time and I believe the leaders doing that will suffer in the next life. Nestorius, Photios, Palamas, and Mark of Ephesus are condemned heretics and the only reason why they are celebrated now is because of Vatican II. This will become clear again one day.

[@Sebastian-lu4yg]

In all charity, I must say that this video is misinformed and shows a superficial understanding of Catholic theology. I could go through the whole video, but one telling example is the discussion of the Filioque. Byzantine Catholics not reciting the Filioque does not mean that they reject Latin beliefs concerning the Filioque. The problem here is more the historical connotations of it, and out of respect for their autonomy Rome does not interfere with the creeds of the Byzantine churches, which are completely correct. There is nothing incorrect about not having the Filioque in the creed, as it was this way for the first millennium of the church. Whether it was a necessary addition to the Creed was a controversy, because not all theological truths have to be included in the Creed. But in response to a form of Arianism spreading in the West, the Latin church added the Filioque to emphasize the divinity of Christ. Not including the Filioque in the Creed does not mean that the Byzantine Churches believe in a contradictory interpretation of the Creed. The only reason this gentleman would believe so would be because he assumes that the purpose was to introduce a different, contradictory theological truth, which in fact is not the case. Even the rest of the Creed itself was not settled at the Council of Nicaea, more specificity was added at the Council of Constantinople. Does this mean that it originally expressed a contradictory Faith? No.

[@letruweldonothsa2622]

​@@ulsterbenny495I thought the same way until I read Maximus the Confessor's Letter to Marinus and the Council of Florence. Maximus and all other Greek fathers teach that the Son is not the cause (αιτια) of the Spirit, but Florence teaches thag He is both principle and cause "just like the Father." Catholic apologists might hold to the Orthodox view; Byzantine Catholics might hold to the Orthodox view. But Rome holds to the heresy taught at Florence

[@TsarOrthodoxBro_II]

You never mentioned the conradictory Saint veneration? EC venerate Eastern Saints who called Rome heretics, they even venerate the heretic Nestorius ( the chaldean catholics).

[@loge10]

This is very interesting and informative - yet it also demonstrates why I have always struggled with finding a "community of faith", as it were. While I am a received Roman Catholic of almost 14 years, much of my theology is more in keeping with Orthodoxy - yet I've become more philosophical about it in that I believe that finding an institution that describes my own faith adequately hasn't been truly found for me. I would think any true religion was about unity and not division, which, sadly, religion seems to perpetuate most of the time. The idea of "who is right" and "who is wrong" disturbs me; you could say that only God is right and God is so beyond our comprehension... Which is probably why I lean towards Orthodoxy because it has apothetic aspects which I find appealing.

[@Yonen1688]

Please consider adding a TL;DW at the beginning and end, it helps make a mental map in my head to follow the logic

[@wonderingpilgrim]

I'm new here and want to thank you for this information, but I've done a lot of research on the eastern Catholics, especially Melkites, and I've not come across anything that states that they believe Nestorius is a saint??!!! I'm pretty mortified if this is true. Perhaps they hide this in their teachings? Could you please send me some links that state this? Thanks so much!

[@theophan9530]

He was not talking about Melkites on this point, but about the Chaldean Church and the Syro-Malabar Church, which are uniates from the old nestorian "Church of Persia". The actual "Assyrian Church" is now what is really left of the latter.

[@wonderingpilgrim]

@@theophan9530 Thank you for clarifying this!

[@n1a316]

​@@wonderingpilgrim I'm a syro-malabar uniate and we don't follow nestorian Christology. We affirm the hypostatic union and that Mary is the mother of God. I think the syro malabar along with the church of east sees nestorius as not heretical. From what I know the church of the east doesn't consider nestorius to be nestorian but that he was made to look bad. And the syro malabar church keeps anaphora of mar nestorius. It kinda throws me off too

[@TheLionTheLambRom1221]

One Holy Catholic Apostolic-these are the marks found in the Creed These are the four MArks of the Church- without them you are not in the church of Christ. One means one government and one doctrine (how they diced up the doctrine through the years is not a matter for this). However- the Orthodox are NOT One in government or teaching- therefore CAN NOT be the Church of Christ. This cherry-picking is disingenuous at best. There are definitely some good points here that do need to be worked out but you will notice most of this confusion comes after VATICAN II- before it was much clear, the heretics were still the heretics before Vatican II- Vatican II certainly is a false council and God will fix that in His Time. Orthodox have tried several times to get together and have failed over and over again due to their different doctrinal views and politics- Let's stop the game. You have to be Catholic- East or West, otherwise, you are outside the Church of Christ. I played this game for 20 years and in the end, by the grace of God, I got out of the schismatic churches and back to the Catholic. Eastern Rites speak of the differences and they accept all the Dogmas of the Catholic Church, including Purgatory- yes, Eastern Catholic churches do pander to Eastern Orthodox all the time and I believe the leaders doing that will suffer in the next life. Nestorius, Photios, Palamas, and Mark of Ephesus are condemned heretics and the only reason why they are celebrated now is because of Vatican II. This will become clear again one day.

[@deacon6221]

@@TheLionTheLambRom1221So is Vatican I correct or no? If it is then Eastern Catholics are not saved as they disagree on one huge dogma of the church: the Filioque. So the entire branch of the East is going to hell. Next the Assyrian churches revere Nestorias as a saint. That goes against the dogma against nestorianism meaning they go to hell. Either Vatican I is canon or it is not and if it is there is a massive amount of problems. I tried to embrace Catholicism but just couldn’t get over the mental gymnastics and the 700 documents you have to read to justify one doctrine that is self refuting.

[@justrubio3121]

What is ADS?????? I’m thinking Divine Simplicity; Augustine/Aquinas? Drawing a huge blank! Help!!!

[@orthochristos]

ADS is absolute divine simplicity. We Orthodox do not believe in ADS. We believe in Divine Simplicity.

[@WaffleusRex]

Yeah, had a friend try to get me to join a Byzantine Rite Catholic church instead. After digging, these are exact reasons why I can't do it. Plus, there's also the idea of no salvation outside of the RCC. That used to be dogma but isn't anymore. So either the RCC taught heresy for centuries or they're teaching heresy now. Finally, on the Filioque, a lot of the arguments sail over my head, as I'm still relatively new to all this, but I can't get over the fact that the Vatican used to have the Nicene Creed without the Filioque engraved on a big silver table and on display. I don't understand all those arguments yet but I can see that it wasn't there before and now it is.

[@TheDarkRobloxian]

Nulla salus extra ecclesiam is still dogma. Nobody is saved except by Jesus, and everyone saved by Jesus constitutes His Church. There is a strong foundation of where this Church is built, and what is her image and sign and real fullest form, whether you take the EO or RC stance.

[@todd7447]

I'm a catholic considering orthodoxy. My stumbling block is what about all the catholic saints. I just can't convince myself that men like padre pio or john vianney or john Bosco were liars and drauds.

[@blackbacon4146]

I feel that

[@AlphaOmegaTruth7]

If I were you I would convert to Orthodox and pray for all the Saints of the Catholic Church. I don't think it's wrong to switch over and still love and respect the Saints of the Catholic Church. I know maybe some will tell you differently but God knows our hearts and won't condemn you for honoring good men of the Catholic Church. We all will end up before the same throne and Jesus won't love a Catholic less then an Orthodox Christian because of ignorance or misunderstanding. As long as each is working out their faith in Love, loving God with all our hearts, mind and strength and loving our neighbors as we love ourselves. Following the will of the Father of Jesus.

[@kapps7658]

You can privately venerate them orthodox and catholics allow for private veneration. You can even find then in iconographic styles

[@ChristianEphraimson]

You can see it as men that weren't formally a part of the church so can't be officially venerated but were noble and thus should be prayed for.

[@MaineManInBigT]

What is the gospel of our salvation?

[@hrd708]

What is ADS, I'm bad with abbreviations and acronyms

[@SolarSiege]

Well brother David tbf if we wanna use this to disprove Catholicism then the same logic applies to Orthodoxy the western rite of Orthodoxy which venerates Saint Thomas Aquinas and other Latin saints post schism also in Catholicism they have a council called the council of zamosc which prohibits and condemns liturgical generation of Saint Gregory of palamas or even mentioning his name in the mass so if you wanna say certain eastern Catholic Churches privately venerating Saint Gregory of palamas the same would be applied to the western rite of orthodoxy therefore it follows for orthodoxy to be false according to this logic

[@LadyMaria]

You posted this 3 times, fyi.

[@precious2615]

Hi David, I am a Roman Catholic. Can you have a debate with William Albrecht on the issue that you raised ?

[@ΓραικοςΕλληνας]

Papists are just about pope .see for example they are nestorian churches that are in full commiunion with rome. Rome does not care for dogma.if you bow to the pope all seems ok...

[@precious2615]

@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας there is only and only ! "One holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" wether you like or not ! The question is! Are you part of that one holy and Apostolic Church ?

[@ΓραικοςΕλληνας]

@@precious2615 that is the the so called orthodox church i am a member if it.

[@ΓραικοςΕλληνας]

@@precious2615 see how hypocrisy is in papism. You are in full union with the Byzantine Catholic that have in there Eucharist Gregory Palamas as a saint. Gregory Palamas calls you as satan acting.so how you communicate with the Eucharist of the Byzantine Catholic that have in it Gregory Palamas as a saint

[@precious2615]

@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας each human will be accountable to God, what I care is Christ our God who lives! and I care about the unity of the flock of Christ ! I don't care about individual opinion ! I believe there is "one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" ! I believe that , each one of us called ourselves as the disciple of Christ ! Our attetude is to bring unity in the body of Christ, not division, any theological mistake that maybe have been committed by some individuals, we in the 21 century Church humbly correct it while seek unity. I have a discord server, let's discuss as disciple of Christ. If you are willing.

[@nieves8160]

Bruh. All 23 autonomous churches hold to all 23 ecumenical councils without exception

[@repairerofthebreach777]

Eastern Catholics are kind of in the middle which denies papal doctrines but also have communion.. doesn't make sense really..

[@repairerofthebreach777]

But there is no middle way.. either it's true or false.. no compromise

[@standev1]

This is false. Eastern Catholics are not free to deny Catholic doctrines. If some people deny Catholic doctrines, they are in heresy.

[@N1IA-4]

I think the answer here is that Eastern Catholics were basically "grandfathered" in due to post-schism circumstances. I don't see this as an issue for Rome. Of course, we can find inconsistencies with anyone if we look hard enough.

[@RFxSukhoi]

That's just it, most were not. They were brought in centuries after the schism.

[@josephology3290]

What about the Virgin Joseph who betrothed the Virgin Mary?

[@danmccalldesign]

I’ve enjoyed these types of talks. They’ve inspired me to read dozens of books and listen to hundreds of hours of lectures on the early church, Jesus, 2nd Temple Judaism, and the evolution of Pauline Christianity. I always wonder why Christian theologians stop at the schism. Why not take a closer look at the creation of the Bible itself. Who wrote the gospels? Who was Paul, really? Why was Paul at such clear odds with James and Peter? If we’re going to apply something like logical argument to theological debates, where will that bring us? All fascinating questions to me. But Orthodox vs Roman Catholic is a fine distinction when most look at it. In the end theology is what we choose to believe for our own reasons.

[@orthodoxfinland5056]

Great Video Brother! KRISTOS ANESTI!

[@maxcarvalho9071]

I agree that the Creed should be the same throughout the Church to be honest, but the Constantinople Creed doesn't have the Filioque when NO Greek of the Latin Rite proclaim it. While the Creed being different among Churches, especially on this matter, should be the same in order for clear doctrinal unity be manifested, the point that ECs will contend is that the Latin Filioque, doctrinally, doesn't fall from Orthodoxy. While I was quite schocked from hearing about the Chaldean Church, none of what you said are actually things that Catholics are not allowed to be disputed for. Regarding Byzantine Eastern Catholics, I honestly don't know any among them who actually venerate Mark of Ephesus, nor have I seen it been done. If Scotism and Thomism can be disputed (and both views are obviously mutually exclusive in some points), so can St. Gregory Palamas theology be disputed. In fact, the claim that he talked about a real distiction between operations and essence is disputed among those from a Scotist point of view, that claim he could be talking about a mere virtual / formal distinction. This view could even be reconciled with Absolute Divine Simplicity which _is not dogmatic in the Catholic Church._ Thomism is merely the preferential system of thought for RC; one only need to affirm Divine Simplicity (not in its absolute thomistic form) to be Orthodox both in RC and in EO terms. There are several scholars who tried to propose a reconciliation between Palamas and Thomas, including a view that says that Barlaam was actually denying the beatific vision, and St. Gregory was, in a certain way, affirming it. St. Gregory and St. Thomas definitely talk about different stuff in their writings, but not necessarily mutually exclusive, and even if it is the case, it is a form of allowed "theological diversity" as we call. Your point in 9:53 about the right / wrong game is nonsense, and is like asking why Scotists, Thomists or _Nouvelle_ Theologians would consider each other part of the same Church lol. And then again, one could mention the thing with Western Rite Orthodoxy, but it seems that you can be Orthodox and yet be highly critical of this thing existing despite your canonical church being in communion with them. I don't believe that _popes_ have shown any particular condemnation to St. Gregory particular theology, so you would have to show quotes on that. And let's be honest, both the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox have kept not communion with Oriental Orthodoxy because they have thought for millenia they were monophysites. Even if a condemnation of them because of Miaphysitism must me kept, it's pretty clear the condemnation in itself would have to be revised. While I'm skeptical and would have to look more into it, I suppose the same could be done for the Nestorians. And then again, I pretty assume that Eastern Catholics justify someone as St. Photios being at least recognized as a saint (even if I don't see particular devotion from some; I think depending on the Byzantine Church some don't even have him canonized, since his canonization was rather late in the EO) due to this "personal holiness", and not because of his reactionary theology. After all, isn't that exactly the same view (particularly from very anti-western Orthodox) on St. Augustine? Unless you are like fr. Romanides and don't recognise him as a saint, lol. You guys paint this saint as basically the great heresiarch of Western Christianity and still regards him as a Saint reportdly because of his pious life, isn't that right? Despite him being recognised "as father of the Church" in later councils, but oh well. And there is the problem with you guys venerating St. Isaac, which, while him personaly not have been Nestorian was, still, having communion in a Church that at that paint was already historically nestorian.

[@nuzzi6620]

What do you think of this comment now that you’ve become Orthodox?

[@permanenceaesthetic6545]

@@nuzzi6620 I was gonna ask the same thing.

[@liquidh5226]

Rome has the spirit of ecumenism that's why it will commune with anyone. And JP2 could kiss the book of Moslems.

[@TommyGunzzz]

Devastating. What is the Catholic defense for this? Trying to play devil's advocate in my head but cant come up with anything lol

[@MrDavicovic]

They just become relativist

[@charleswilliams8847]

I have a lot of sympathy with this point of view. The Augustinian theory of the Trinity makes no sense to me and the Cappadocian theory seems right. The issue here is what is dogma and what is theologoumenon (opinion) and how to we know in the absence of ecumenical councils that would settle the matter. Orthodoxy needs a pope, but not the pope as he functions in the Western Church. Let us consider the Coptic Church. We Calcedonians are not in communion with them. Is this a dispute over words, politics and history or is this a dispute over the true faith? How can this question be resolved. I sure don't have the answer.

[@rfs103]

There’s no Nestorianism in the eastern rite, or in Eastern Orthodoxy.

[@TsarOrthodoxBro_II]

There absolutely is veneration of Nestorius in the Eastern Catholic churches, the Chaldean Catholics venerate Nestorius as a saint

[@77494oilfieldtrash]

You mention Denzinger 119, but I thought Eastern Catholic priests were not allowed to get married after ordination? Do the Eastern Orthodox churches allow marriage after ordination to the priesthood?

[@russellhoward3866]

No, my old priest got married & was then ordained immediately after. If his wife dies he can either remain a priest or get remarried, but not both.

[@whitemakesright2177]

In the Orthodox Church, married men may become priests, but men who are already priests cannot get married.

[@yoeme01]

@@whitemakesright2177 that is the same rule in Roman. While the discipline or practice that unmarried men become priests, it does allow married men to become priests.

[@matthewsiahaan1312]

The Barbarian Latin Cope is reaching truly blasphemous levels.

[@wiglafthegrnlander4757]

Matthew Siahaan we’re reaching levels of cope that shouldn’t even be possible

[@orthodoxchristianchants122]

@@wiglafthegrnlander4757 looool

[@ZZZELCH]

Fantastic video. Thank you

[@ZuoCruz]

So does Western Rite Orthodoxy refute the East?

[@Ioannikios174]

What about it would refute the East?

[@bernardthome9003]

@Username Hahaha.. Tridentine mass is pre-schism??? Are you Orthodox or orthodogs???

[@TrendyWeb1]

@iMakz according to med they do since they venerate the Sacred Heart

[@awake3083]

@@Ioannikios174 Because Western Orthodox use “post-schism” Western practices like praying the modern rosary or devotion to the sacred heart. Pretty easy refutation if he Orthodox are in communion with those who are larping as Catholics in their church.

[@Ioannikios174]

@awake3083 Many Orthodox are against those practices. Also, I would definitely say that a few Orthodox erring would not refute the entire Church, since there have many times been periods in the Church with error and heretical beliefs and practices. These practices have not REMAINED however, and they eventually leave.

[@RayWihak-nw3sv]

Ukrainian Catholic. Was, am and will be… the eastern Catholic and Roman Catholic Church are two lungs breathing the same breath.

[@InfraPrimal]

Isnt a refutation sorry.

[@soulmatic09]

I'm a Western Rite Orthodox catechumen. I feel you. God bless you

[@InfraPrimal]

@ I love your Mass sm lol, im inquiring Eastern but I definitely wanna visit a Western Rite Mass someday. They dont spread the heresy that RC’s do, and St. Peter and St. Paul were definitely western rite with our historical places dating to them.

[@realjuanpflores]

#2. Sedevacantism.

[@starcityoldy]

Thanks bro. God bless

[@personalismoneomedieval9536]

They are not contradictory.

[@personalismoneomedieval9536]

Both primacy and collegiality

[@personalismoneomedieval9536]

Both essence/energy distinction and divine simplicity. Both simple and infinite ♾.

[@iMakz07]

Catholics still have no response to this

[@meistereckhart9291]

I skimmed through the video, here are a few remarks: The veneration of controversial personalities shouldn't be a impedement to a union in dogmatics, submission to the pope is a implicit acceptance of such. The veneration of someone is a pragmatic affair if their intercession is efficacious, good enough for them! We simply don't know their conscience or final fate especially if they weren't canonized by the Pope or the other churches collectively, Eastern Orthodox venerate Isaac of Nineveh, a 'Nestorian'. Even some saints of the Eastern Orthodox Church have held to errors, no one believes saints are infallible. As for wether or not the Assyrian or Oriental Church actually held the heresies they were ascribed is another story, recent ecumenical gestures would admit their orthodoxy in regards to Christology. A plurality or even contradictory perspectives is allowed in a Church as long as they don't contradict the dogmas, for example; Toll-houses & Photian monopatrism, Scotism, Thomism, etc. You said that the Roman church dogmatised clerical celibacy, that is simply wrong, it is only a matter of canonical discipline, not everything in Denzinger is Dogmatic, as for that melkite website saying there is only 7 ecumenical councils is equivocal: Ecumenical from my understanding usually means ecumenical as in encompassing the imperium or as a gathering of the majority of Bishops, so the website isn't wrong if it refers to the councils called in synergy with the Roman/Byzantine imperial government unless they have another definition, or whoever wrote the website could simply be wrong, if it is I'm not sure how that refutes Eastern Catholicism as a whole or the Melkites besides the number, wether or not they deny the doctrine of those councils is another thing. The doctrine behind the Filioque is the Western and more convoluted way of expressing the typically Eastern; 'through the Son'. Photius' monopatrism isn't heretical in itself only when it is adhered to at the exclusion of the other expressions of which it isn't contradictory, albeit a limited one in comparison to others.

[@dimitrispeiraias]

St Paisios of mount Athos has clarified that St Isaac the Syrian is a person absolutely different from the nestorian Isaac! After all a careful reading of the books that some scholars attribute to the same author shows that the two books on their spiritual view differ distinctively!

[@therealMedWhite]

Isaac of Nineveh Nestorian story is literally a fordham (jesuit university) lie. That's the only source you have, and anything out of Fordham or any Jesuit for that matter is as worthless as an animal's excrement... well, at least an animal's excrement is useful at times, whereas Fordham never is.

[@dimitrispeiraias]

@@therealMedWhite unfortunately that lie has been spread uncritically!

[@DesertPilgrim1]

@Meister Eckhart, good response. There is much misinterpretation of data in this video.

[@MultiMobCast]

Why do you not make arguments from the Bible?

[@ChristianEphraimson]

Our problems are most fundamentally about church hierarchy, which are hardly discussed in the Holy Scriptures since they are concerned with morality and the life of Christ.

[@marcokite]

Hhmmmm....it's rather protestant to believe EVERYTHING in our Faith is lai out in the Bible as if it was an instruction manual. The Bible is PART of Tradition not separate from it.

[@MultiMobCast]

@@marcokite But what isn't implied from the Bible that is part of our tradition? Does the rationale at least not find its basis in Biblical principles? Surely it would be a more authoritative manner of argument?

[@rakovsky3901]

David, Many Eastern Catholics consider themselves EOs in communion with Rome and may in person individually tell you that they only accept 7 Ecumenical Councils. As I understand it, Eastern Catholic Churches have officially all signed on to the Catholic "Ecumenical Councils", not just the 7 EO Ecumenical Councils.

[@standev1]

"Many Eastern Catholics consider themselves EOs in communion with Rome and may in person individually tell you that they only accept 7 Ecumenical Councils" Eastern Catholic here. Eastern Catholics are not permitted to reject any Ecumenical Council of the Church.

[@markrome9702]

Who is right? Who is wrong? You left out the correct answer. #4 - you are wrong because you've misrepresented the facts. Here's one- Celibacy "dogma". There is no dogma of celibacy. Either/or thinking likes this gets you into trouble. It also isn't very sophisticated.

[@markrome9702]

@Revanchist LOL, no, you don't get excommunicated. Where do people come up with this stuff?

[@markrome9702]

​@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese Not excommunicated.

[@markrome9702]

@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese true. You didn't say anything.

[@markrome9702]

@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese I have no idea what you are going on about.

[@markrome9702]

@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese nobody else does either.

[@TheDroc1990]

There are many errors in this video. People in the comments are pointing it out. Use discernment.

[@jenis-01]

@Salme9540 Lol Mr Derek is an Orthodox now btw. But, great points. Saved. Thank you, God bless you

[@jeffreyperez2178]

Great video! Common sense

[@fr.vasylpolyak2075]

Eastern Catholicism does not refute Rome, but stay in communion as always been. There is a some sort of misunderstanding of words rite and theology there. Jesus did not play games who is right and who is wrong but proclaimed the Gospel. Those churches have been doing the same. There is no any competition, but an invitation from Jesus to follow. And even more. Technically Eastern Catholic Churches keep the unseporated status of the One Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ in the present time. And invite the others to do the same: stay in unity as Jesus asked us. So it will be one flock and one shepherd. Also, there some pretty big mistake about the Holy Eucharist at the beginning of this video. We participate Holy Eucharist because we believe it is the Body and Blood of our Lord at this church. But we do not reject the Holy Eucharist of the other Apostolic Churches.

[@shiningdiamond5046]

The filoque doctrine is akin to believing in a different God. You may as well be in communion with Lutherans and calvinsists as well by your piety signaling SJW attempt at a rebuttal.

[@mikotheinsane3872]

Who fled from a bathhouse because of the Heretic there? I missed the name

[@theophan9530]

St John the Theologian I think, the "beloved disciple" of Christ (and that is in accordance with his second epistle).

[@kevinrice-eftpractitioner167]

Since Eastern Catholics are living proof that none of these are really Church dividing issues they cannot work as a valid excuse for refusing to be in communion with the See of Peter. Therefore the real reason for maintaining the Schism is the refusal to submit even symbolically to the successor of the Chief Apostle on whom Christ established the Church. What, then, can justify that continued rebellion? It's indefensible.

[@siervodedios5952]

Well considering that Papal Primacy and not Papal Supremacy was the norm during the first millennium, I'd say that's one reason why Orthodox aren't (and shouldn't) unite with Rome or bend the knee to the Pope. Also the Third and Eighth Ecumenical Councils forbade any changes or additions to the Creed and anathematized anyone who does so. Rome was fine till the Franks and other Germanics started messing the Roman church up.

[@awake3083]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@siervodedios5952Primacy doesn’t just entail honorifics, the Orthodox seem to undermine this notion. The East has always considered Rome the mother church so why remain in schism and not reunite with the office of the Papacy?

[@sunhair5499]

So many misunderstandings it's not worth responding.

[@age234]

@@jackodell8497 Sure it is. I learned the exact same stuff in my EO catechumen class 15 years ago. These points were made at the time Uniatism came into existence.

[@shayneswenson]

Jack Odell Get a grip, Jack. You’ve posted a boatload of boo hoo comments and you look threatened and confused.

[@boomerguy5944]

@@jackodell8497 So protestants, Nestorians, Monophysites, Papists, Sedevecantists, baptists, and orthodox are all united in faith because they all """Affirm""" a single creed. (until they dont and decide adding to that creed is acceptable)

[@orthodoxchristianchants122]

The guy in your picture St. John the Irish, is an Orthodox, not a Frankish Catholic.

[@AbdulRahman-bi1nu]

Can barely hear you

[@blanrue]

Ok, but w is not v.

[@baito6898]

minute 10. correct answer: both are wrong.

[@asdfasdf3989]

Cringe.

[@joonie8103]

Lol 😂i thought of it as a joke

[@raihansyahharahap]

yes it is true that both have different doctrines. That is because each Catholic church has a different culture. These cultures give rise to doctrinal differences. For example, eastern priests may get married while Latin cannot. Western and eastern Catholics also believe in different saints. but is this what makes the reason that "as if" there is no unity? Certainly not. The difference is only due to cultural differences. for example the purgatory problem. Roman Catholics believe it, while eastern Catholics do not. It should be noted that the Bishop of Rome has stressed that "purgatory is not to be believed by Catholics other than Roman Catholics". What does it mean? The meaning is that eastern Catholics have no compulsion to accept the doctrine because the doctrine "only applies" to the "Latin tradition". Therefore, the pope as the leader of the entire Catholic Church (not just Rome) does not require Latin church doctrine to be believed by the Eastern Church. Because, the doctrine caused by tradition or culture is an expression of faith in a culture, but remember, it does not change the doctrine of faith ... Roman and Eastern Catholics share the same faith: believe in Mary without sin, the pope as the supreme leader. what needs to be emphasized is that culture and faith cannot be united. So when we speak of faith, any Catholic Church has the same faith. But when it comes to culture, it's certainly different. What God sees is faith, not culture. Once again, the doctrine of culture is an expression of the culture of each Catholic church but does not change the basis of faith: Believe in Jesus God, Mary the Immortal Virgin, Mary was born without sin, the same Sacrament, Received the highest pope, saints, and others. Faith and culture are different, that's fine. Different when speaking with the Orthodox Church, this is just a different formulation of faith: Do not believe Mary was conceived without original sin and the pope as the highest leader.

[@hectordanielsanchezcobo7339]

Culture cannot change infallible dogmas. "Is Christ divided?" If I can reject something you cannot it's literally holding a different faith. "One Faith"

[@joelancon7231]

@@hectordanielsanchezcobo7339 he clearly distinguished between doctrine and dogma in his post

[@asdfasdf3989]

Just to note: Priests marrying or not isn't doctrine. The Western Church could change its practice on this if it wanted to.

[@meusisto]

@David Phillips Please, what ecumenical councils taught purgatory?

[@meusisto]

@David Phillips I see! I thought there was any ecumenical council (from the 7) that taught it, not that it was a posterior thing.

[@bankerborsch]

Eastern Catholics under photius started the great schism. That is such a poor arguement it's hilarious.

[@rithinsiby2653]

The first problem of this video is that it think east and west are two different churches, secondly it assumes we have to have only one theological view,both east and west believe in same doctrine,we have different viewpoints, secondly the seemingly contrary doctrine are views which are not formally made into doctrine therefore different views are possible,this is true in orthodox tradition as well, finally it is not rome who is against union but the orthodox churches,rome has been the one to alway intiate talk about union.

[@TsarOrthodoxBro_II]

What are your thoughts about EC's venerating saints that once condemned Rome as heretics and vice-versa (like St. Mark of Ephesus, Gregory Palamas, etc...)? Or even the Oriental EC churches (Coptic Catholic, Ethiopian Catholic, etc...) believing in the monophysite chrystology that Rome once condemned as heretical? Or even the Chaldean Catholics who venerate Nestorius as a saint? Uniatism is way too contradictory to ever reconcile with. If I ever were to ever revert to the Papist protestant Church, I wouldn't be able to for this very reason (among a multitude of other reasons).

[@rithinsiby2653]

@@TsarOrthodoxBro_II those are not doctrinal differences, we have only one Lord jesus Christ that should be our point of unity, the fact that certain saints are venerated does not mean there should not be any unity, I admire and venerate greogory palamas, but for me his theology is not against Filiquoe as now understood by catholic church but rather wrong understanding of those doctrines. In that i completely agree with him. Secondly there are universal saints and local saints, universal saints are accepted by all catholics, for local saints they may be venerated by local churches. They should not hinder conversation, the problem with internet orthobros are do not want to participate in humble conversations and understanding. Rather they are more interested in flexing their theological muscles. That is just sin of pride.

[@TsarOrthodoxBro_II]

@@rithinsiby2653 I get what you are saying about the universal vs local Saint thing, that does make sense. To be fair, it's the best answer I've received so far on this question. However, at the same time, that justification of the diversity of beliefs is false ecumenism at its core. By that logic, that would be like accepting every single form of protestantism, as long as they accept the Pope.

[@Beta-XYZ]

David you sound like a Bulgarian because I use to work with some of your people and you guys have to same accent W- V👍

[@baghdaddy3531]

David is Turkish if I remember correctly.

[@Cobruh_Commander]

@@baghdaddy3531 He is, I guess that's his accent. May be that's how they pronounce it in Turkish but I don't have a clue.

[@personalismoneomedieval9536]

Both are right

[@TheLionTheLambRom1221]

One Holy Catholic Apostolic--these are the marks found in the Creed- These are the four MArks of the Church- without them you are not in the church of Christ. One means one government and one doctrine (how they diced up the doctrine through the years is not a matter for this). However- the Orthodox are NOT One in government or teaching- therefore CAN NOT be the Church of Christ. This cherry-picking is disingenuous at best. There are definitely some good points here that do need to be worked out but you will notice most of this confusion comes after VATICAN II- before it was much clear, the heretics were still the heretics before Vatican II- Vatican II certainly is a false council and God will fix that in His Time. Orthodox have tried several times to get together and have failed over and over again due to their different doctrinal views and politics- Let's stop the game. You have to be Catholic- East or West, otherwise, you are outside the Church of Christ. I played this game for 20 years and in the end, by the grace of God, I got out of the schismatic churches and back to the Catholic. Eastern Rites speak of the differences and they accept all the Dogmas of the Catholic Church, including Purgatory- yes, Eastern Catholic churches do pander to Eastern Orthodox all the time and I believe the leaders doing that will suffer in the next life. Nestorius, Photios, Palamas, and Mark of Ephesus are condemned heretics and the only reason why they are celebrated now is because of Vatican II. This will become clear again one day.

[@AlphaOmegaTruth7]

I wanted to ask you a question about the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. At one point they were both One Church. First, at what point in time did any Apostle put it in writing that the Roman Church now has Authority over all other Church regions and the Bishop of that Roman Church is Infallible? I thought it's taught in the Bible that no man is perfect but God alone. And Jesus is the only man to ever walk the Earth who is sinless and infallibly perfect. Wouldn't claiming to be infallible be claiming to be Jesus Christ if we believed scripture to be true about fallibility and Mankind. The Pope made a fallible mistake about the blessing homosexuals. No infallible person would say such a thing. Homosexuality is a sin throughout the Bible. That was misleading of the Pope I feel. I mean no disrespect. I am a non denominational Christian who has been searching for the true church that keeps the Apostolic teachings. I found Eastern Orthodoxy to be this Church , due to history and keeping the Creed, keeping the message true and right. From my eyes. I love all Christians and wish that all Christians would go back to the roots of our Tree and participate in the Church of God's grace , which I truly believe is the Holy Eastern Orthodox Catholic Apostolic Church. Just from an outside perspective of searching. I send this with love in Christ

[@johnsambo9379]

Orthodox believe in toll houses which is heresy just like purgatory.

[@ChristianEphraimson]

It isn't dogmatized

[@SolarSiege]

Well brother David tbf if we wanna use this to disprove Catholicism then the same logic applies to Orthodoxy the western rite of Orthodoxy which venerates Saint Thomas Aquinas and other Latin saints post schism also in Catholicism they have a council called the council of zamosc which prohibits and condemns liturgical generation of Saint Gregory of palamas or even mentioning his name in the mass so if you wanna say certain eastern Catholic Churches privately venerating Saint Gregory of palamas the same would be applied to the western rite of orthodoxy therefore it follows for orthodoxy to be false according to this logic

[@cameroncampbell7706]

You seem to be misinformed, although Western Rite Orthodoxy does use the Pre-schism Latin mass, they are specifically not allowed to venerate heretical saints or even pray the rosary, most of the western rite (except a couple parishes) venerates heretical saints and even then that does not invalidate the whole rite unlike Eastern Rote Catholicism that is allowed to continue in their Eastern Practices that contradict what Rome teaches.

[@SolarSiege]

Well brother David tbf if we wanna use this to disprove Catholicism then the same logic applies to Orthodoxy the western rite of Orthodoxy which venerates Saint Thomas Aquinas and other Latin saints post schism also in Catholicism they have a council called the council of zamosc which prohibits and condemns liturgical generation of Saint Gregory of palamas or even mentioning his name in the mass so if you wanna say certain eastern Catholic Churches privately venerating Saint Gregory of palamas the same would be applied to the western rite of orthodoxy therefore it follows for orthodoxy to be false according to this logic

[@deGahlon]

Every saint venerated by Western Rite Orthodoxy is also considered a saint by Eastern Orthodoxy. Western Rite Orthodox do not venerate post-schism Roman Catholic saints and do not venerate Saint Thomas Aquinas.

[@LadyMaria]

​@@deGahlonExactly and they have St. Gregory Palamas Sunday like we do.