Eastern Orthodoxy's Unbiblical View of the Cross - Pastor Patrick Hines Podcast

[@waterssolar5025]

Very valuable video. Catastrophic tragedy concerning when people trust their church or their tradition to save them. Galatians, Romans, Hebrews pointedly, all combat these doctrines of demons. It is a question of authority: Scripture is good and profitable to rebuke us and rebuke our bad theology. They reject the authority of Scripture and trust tradition and the works of their flesh. Your treatment of this pathetic heretical abomination is refreshing and enlightening. Thank you.

[@divinenatureonline]

Sadly their argument is that they are "the fullness of the faith" and go back in apostolic succession yet theyre so removed from a proper understanding of scripture.

[@polarfamily6222]

Looking forward to this! 👍

[@jalapeno.tabasco]

ANOTHER ONE LETS GOOO

[@Phil-oy6mw]

Keepem' coming bro 💪😎

[@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah]

While Christ did die in our place, that is not what the words "ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν" specify. The words "ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν" mean "over of us" meaning "over us", and this usage of the words means "for the sake of us". Whether or not it was done for our sake by Christ dying in our place, is specified elsewhere in Scripture, but the wording of "ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν" does not address that exact specification. Thayer's Lexicon is an outline of Biblical usage, not a dictionary of definitions. It generally (not strictly) organizes the usages shown by earliest Greek usage, which is often in the Septuagint, and sometimes is a rare yet valid usage (such as with "ἐλπίς"), so we want to understand our tools and use them safely. The first usage which Thayer lists for "ὑπὲρ" is: 1) in behalf of, for the sake of. All three are as follows: 1) in behalf of, for the sake of 2) over, beyond, more than 3) more, beyond, over We see that "in behalf of" pairs with "for the sake of" while we do not see any specification of "in the place of". We also see that 2 and 3 are the same, and that none of the three mentions "above" which is the literal meaning and also a usage which appears multiple times in Scripture. Therefore, we see that Thayer's entry is rather flawed for this word. I do often rely on Thayer, but I strive to do so carefully. If we use the tool without striving to use it carefully, if we just assume good-enough prematurely, then we are going to get ourselves confused by it (as I have done, and will do again, but do and will do far less due to due diligence). Correction is good. Shalom and cheers.

[@reformedpresbyterianpulpit6745]

Yes it does. In behalf of and for the sake of and in the place of mean exactly the same thing. Substitutionary atonement. Look at Galatians 3:13. If that’s not substitutionary curse bearing, then what is it? Jesus didn’t bear the curse of his own sins, for he had none.

[@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah]

​@@reformedpresbyterianpulpit6745 Sorry; I should have included the timestamp so you would know what I was specifically referring to. Your argumentation from Galatians 3 is sufficient to prove substitution. The argumentation from the raw linguistics of the words "ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν" is erroneous (as argumentation). Specifically, I refer to from timestamp 29:51 until 30:08, when the man states that "for us" is interpreted as "in our place", and you say it's not a matter of interpretation because "that is what the words ["ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν"] mean". The words do mean "for our sake" (when used in that manner), but they do nothing to specify substitution. One cannot make a raw linguistic argument from something which the language does nothing to specify. "For the sake of" is not synonymous with "in place of". For example: if I say "don't cry over spilled milk", I am not saying "don't cry in place of spilled milk", but I am saying "don't cry for the sake of spilled milk". This is because "for the sake of" is not synonymous with "in place of". The words "ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν" (when used in that manner) specify only the one but not the latter.

[@davidbrown-hf3ti]

I think Pastor Patrick steps in too often, stating the same ideas. I agree with Pastor Patrick’s statements, but I find his presentation off-putting in many places.

[@reformedpresbyterianpulpit6745]

Sorry... the level of error is a target-rich environment.... I'll let them speak more next time and be more restrained. You're probably right.