ED vs Razbam - What Happens When Its Already Over?

[@Enigma89]

G-Limiter, fix or no fix, is one issue representative of the much larger problem. These modules are on borrowed time and the community is figuring out what is the best way to navigate this until a resolution comes. At some point, IMHO, these modules are going to break, unless a resolution happens. This is an interesting thing to talk about and I wanted to share the POV from me and a few others. Lastly, if we think this issue is bad, imagine how the French Air Force feels right now.

[@bill8791]

The point is, bar the M2K, they haven't broken. This situation is ridiculous but the drama created by players is equally stupid. I thought DCS was for grownups. Also, Razbam is still selling them.

[@tspencer227]

@@bill8791 "I thought DCS was for grownups" You must be new here.

[@Enigma89]

@@bill8791 Only one patch has happened since it was announced. I am telling you and 3rd party module maker is telling you, that they are on borrowed time. We could be wrong and you could be right but it seems ridiculous to me to dismiss this as non-problem

[@bodifx]

@@bill8791 ED is selling them, remember, the money all goes to ED first and not Razbam, and the whole issue started because ED supposedly refused to repass any payment from all sales.

[@Stooltoad5017]

@@bill8791Just because they haven’t broken yet doesn’t mean they won’t. The M2K could be first of more problems.

[@BuzzK1]

The most disturbing part of this is the fact that there is no storefront indication of any issues or potential loss of support for the modules - they are all still on sale as if nothing is going on

[@Enigma89]

Real

[@egoterrorist]

Pretty sure that was the case with the Hawk when that mess happened

[@ziepex7009]

@@egoterrorist havent heard that name in awile..hawk

[@33vortex]

A lawsuit in the making.

[@CloudWallace]

They likely feel safe behind their many shells

[@kekistanimememan170]

Sim games try not to have internal infighting challenge (impossible)

[@WardogDCS]

At least its not like classified file drops by the chunder thunder community 🤣

[@chaos.....]

@@WardogDCS i know u want them too

[@WardogDCS]

@@chaos..... well, its good entertainment when it does happen !

[@Osean_Kitty]

​@@WardogDCSdidn't a DCS dev get caught trying to smuggle a F-16 manual though?

[@theleftfootedsultan]

@@Osean_KittyIt was a very different model than the one in-game, in fairness.

[@StandingCow2]

ED needs to stop selling the modules ASAP no matter who is to blame, until the dispute is solved.

[@Starscream471]

Here here!🔔

[@Phoenixfett]

This! 100% this!

[@richardhockey8442]

comes down to why ED didn't pay Razbam in the first place - if it was because *they didn't have the money*, they are not going to stop selling any modules

[@deekamikaze]

ED is the issue though. If you want to know what's really going on, look at the replies under Enigma's comment. I posted about it there. I've known about it for quite a long time and I've kept my mouth shut hoping they would take care of things but it doesn't seem to be happening.

[@Fred-rv2tu]

Razbam violated their agreement. But then ED violated it by not paying them which wasn’t a stipulation of Razbams original breach. ED then spent the money. Now they’re pushing modules out the door as fast as they can to try to generate the income to pay them and bring them back into the fold.

[@billhuang6506]

You said it well..."This hurts everyone". I urge ED and Razbam to work this out...Full stop.

[@einarabelc5]

Just stop using the product, problem solved.

[@Stubbies2003]

@@einarabelc5 It goes way deeper than a simpleton fix like that. This isn't the first third party developer to have an issues with ED and a module gets left in the lurch. You might not know about it since it was just one module and it was a trainer aircraft not multiple main aircraft like what is in the lurch now. However the "fix" for the trainer module was seriously trash. If this is just going to continue to be a possibility with other third party developers then ALL third party developed products are suspect for this kind of outcome. If you are happy in throwing your money away hey that is your business. However most people aren't content with spending hard earned money on a product that has the ability to vaporware overnight.

[@startrekmike]

@@Stubbies2003 I do remember the VEAO/Hawk incident and there is one major factor to keep in mind. VEAO only really released on module (and a wildly incomplete one at that). They had planned (and taken money for) another but they self-destructed and intentionally left ED in a bad position in the process. This wasn't the case of an otherwise reliable third party suddenly going bad. It was a bad third party acting in bad faith from day one. The uncomfortable pill for a lot of folks to swallow is that RAZBAM is largely in the same boat. They have more modules under their belt but they also have a well documented history of not acting in good faith. Their leadership has always been unprofessional and their community interaction only really happens in spaces that they have total control over. Even this most recent issue has their lack of basic professionalism written all over it. Some folks say that other third parties like Heatblur, Deka, or Aerges might also have problems but when you consider that unlike RAZBAM (and VEAO before them), they have managed to maintain a calm, professional relationship with both ED and their customers, I think the issue here isn't so much that "it could happen to all third parties" and is instead just that eventually bad third parties will do something stupid and everyone has to pay the price.

[@korniestpatch]

My first thought was, well so theres no security if i buy any of the 3rd party planes.

[@billhuang6506]

@@korniestpatch I would say possibly...and what do I know? ED is kicking major butt here and I trust them to figure out some resolution. Larger picture is that I trust their overall vision for their product (DCS).

[@maxjpind]

ED needs to either remove all Raz modules from the sale site, or at the VERY LEAST, put a visible disclaimer on the sale site warning customers about there being possible instability/issues for the time being. I feel very sorry for anyone that is just now getting into DCS and are walking into a situation like this, especially if they’re getting into it because their favorite aircraft is one of the Raz modules. Not a great first impression for sure.

[@Stubbino]

That could be seen as retaliatory against Razbam. There will also be contracts that state what should and should not be up for sale. The future of ED and Razbams relationship is up in the air, until that's decided either way you'll see business as usual. If Razbam no long wants to work with ED then you'll likely see refunds issued based on a sales date.

[@Colonel_Bat_Guano]

Yup that's me. Was thinking about buying the 15E but ummmmmm

[@ecirpnai1]

I agree completely. Buyer confidence and trust in a company is like the holy grail. Lose it at your peril. Also selling an item that you know is faulty or not fit for purpose can put you in a sticky situation in some countries. I love DCS and I don't care who is at fault, but I would like it sorted out as quickly as possible. These modules are not cheap so I will not be buying any more 3rd party modules until this is sorted.

[@Shadris]

me after buyng f15e :c

[@Colonel_Bat_Guano]

@@Shadris i've heard people say it's a very solid module where it's currently at. Better just hope its code doesn't ever need updating lol

[@yoloman3607]

RIP Mig-23, REDFOR needed you

[@Enigma89]

Real

[@Ronin_Gaijin]

@@Enigma89 REDFOR needed you not only to fill in the hugely full fidelity REDFOR module gap, but also to create a benchmark for the upcoming FF 9.12A...

[@tenduvaiilsindarin2876]

I´m so happy that I was not interested in that Aircraft, but in the same time, I am so sorry for those who are. I can not even imagine how I would feel if this would have happened to the F-4 Phantom. Thus, I really hope for you guys that you'll get the Flogger the one or other way earlier or later, crossing fingers.

[@JJR227]

​@@tenduvaiilsindarin2876 If it doesn't go ahead , to say I'm fkn devastated is an understatement. Been waiting for the flogger since it was first announced over 10+ years ago.

[@tenduvaiilsindarin2876]

@@JJR227 ehh, first announcement 10 years +? I havent hared something like that 10 years ago, just recently when they came up with the very first Screenshots. However, it does not make any difference. It sucks anyways if you wait for a Module and then it´ll be abandoned just because of such Bullshit. As I know how it feels, I´m crossing fingers for you, that you´ll be able to fly it sooner or later.

[@taerdryn]

The community needs videos like these and creators like you to stand up and say these things more than ever right now. Thank you!

[@OrionRox]

The sale on all Razbam's modules should be on hold, period. I would never pre-order the F15E if I knew this kind of shenanigans would ever happen.

[@hurrikage09]

No one would have man. You just have to trust the company to deliver a product. Same with anything in the world. It sucks, these are the only modules I have lol

[@hunterhess8433]

For real. I have had the F-15E since launch and haven't flown it once.

[@ScootersVids511]

I’m not shocked that it has come to this after razbams shit show of a 15e launch.

[@Kirill_Konovalov]

This kind if shenanigans can happen with absolutely any 3rd party in dcs. Sadly. Anyday.

[@Stubbies2003]

@@Kirill_Konovalov THis is precisely what needs to be fixed in some way. If this goes worst case and ED's "answer" is exactly like the hawk module fiasco they will really hurt this platform. I wouldn't be able to invest money in third party modules from this point if that ends up being the case.

[@WardogDCS]

I’ve heard there is ONE person currently working on all fixes for Razbam. Its hearsay, But its something that popped up when NL mentioned yesterday about M2K fixes coming with today’s patch. I cannot confirm the accuracy of such, but its what i’ve heard amongst the chatter

[@Enigma89]

AFAIK it's being fixed but its the first crack in the facade. It may not be fatal but the next one can be. If ED gave a statement and said they are going to insure the continuation of these modules then this video would not be necessary. The silence is making everyone uneasy

[@WardogDCS]

Couldn’t have say it any better there, Enigma. We, as the consumers need a proper “state of the union” address by ED on whats going. It doesn’t help anything either when people started posting about returns on razbam products on the ED storefront.

[@iFlyFlightSims]

According to at least one source on RAZBAM’s Discord, ED doesn’t have the source code to ANY of their modules. This would explain why none of them are being fixed and bug complaints are being ignored. If they already had the source code, they could start addressing the bugs.

[@ApachyDaro]

@@Enigma89 The bugs came from Razbam pushed through untested changes in the last DCS patch that broke the plane. ED confirmed it's getting rolled back to previous working state in todays patch to come. As for the silence, that's expected while both party are mitigating behind the doors. Latest discourse is driven by community members trying to stir up the situation again. Just have to wait till the day both parties come out with press statement. Everything else is speculation.

[@hidayatoceandar5004]

What I've heard ED won't continue the SE even if they have the source code only ti maintain to simply able to run as the DCS get updated.

[@dewey7085]

The mirage is my favorite jet, and this whole scenario hurts

[@Synoopy2]

I am so glad that I tried MSFS out for the first time in December and have switched to playing it after playing DCS for years. I like it so much I haven't had time to go back to DCS. Looks like they have deceptive practices - not sure what the deal is between them and Razbam but going public with the dispute is tragic, and probably made it worse

[@wmouse]

After the loss of the Hawk T.1A in DCS, I think we all expected ED to take measures to ensure that such a thing doesn't happen again. But if Razbam modules suffer the same fate, then the terrible lesson is that every single 3rd party module is always at risk of disappearing. It feels ruinous. Why would I buy anything when I have no guarantee that it will be working a year from now?

[@r4dio4ctiv3man9]

The Strike eagle is in developement for more than 10 years. It is very much possible, that this contract is older than the Hawk issue and my not fall under the new contracts (IF it is true what ED said).

[@Stubbies2003]

THIS. This is precisely where I am at right now. I basically lost the hawk module because there is no way I am leaving an old dcs install around just to fly one trainer aircraft. God forbid this happens to the Razbam modules. If that is the case my days of supporting third party developers is finished.

[@sandwich5344]

​@@r4dio4ctiv3man9 i ought this might be the case, afaik - with the new contracts it is indeed insured to end up as ED's property in case of developer pullout

[@SuperAd1980]

@@r4dio4ctiv3man9 True, but any customer who lives in the EU (or the UK) is entitled to either: 1- The fault being fixed in a timely manor. or 2- A full CASH refund of the defective item. (although the customer can choose to accept store credit if they like) ... Many have already asked for, and received refunds. Big legal issue, which could be met with very stiff fines to ED if they refused.

[@r4dio4ctiv3man9]

@@SuperAd1980 Very true, the "no refund" policy is illegal in the EU. If ED sticks to that, this could even result in DCS beeing banned from the EU market.

[@bodifx]

I will say from experience dealing with corporate clients in more than a decade at this point, once the situation gets to the point that the ones talking are the lawyers it is over, you only go to that point because you have no other option left. ED literally has the money (100% of RB module sales as well) and the decision power in this situation, if they wanted a compromise they could have done that months ago.

[@ascherlafayette8572]

Idk man, it seems like there was an underlying situation with Razbam that bubbled over. Given their unprofessional response I wouldn't be surprised if they're just really hard to work with.

[@thanksskeletor4812]

@@ascherlafayette8572exactly razbam are a bunch of third world South Americans, making the worst modules in DCS.

[@_cyantist]

@@ascherlafayette8572 "my clients are super hard to work with so im not going to actually pay them at all. surely this will make them happier and more likely to be open to compromise"

[@FallenPhoenix86]

​@@ascherlafayette8572 If they hadn't said what they did we wouldn't even know there was a sh!t storm brewing under the surface, but everything would still be just as compromised as it is. At least we now know the RB modules are a dead and not to buy any... with ED's response, or lack thereof, we know not to buy anything else. RB sat quiet for a year trying to resolve this privately, they did everyone a favour blowing the lid off it.

[@thesweatleaf]

@@ascherlafayette8572 but what's that say for DCS? This is not Eagle Dynamics' first time doing this

[@NavyGuy2OO7]

I've loved RAZBAM since FSX, and I've bought every one of their DCS modules. I dont want a refund, I want both parties to set aside their pride and come up with a solution, I love the modules and want them to continue.

[@r4dio4ctiv3man9]

But RB has done some very questionable things in the past. I remember when they wanted to take the Harrier out of EA and claimed it was feature complete, while it was not even close to feature complete. They just stepped back from that after a massive shitstorm on the forum. Not saying ED is any better, RB is questionable.

[@SuperAd1980]

Luckily any customer who lives in the EU (or the UK) is entitled to either: 1- The fault being fixed in a timely manor. or 2- A full CASH refund of the defective item. (although the customer can choose to accept store credit if they like) ... Many have already asked for, and received refunds. Big legal issue, which could be met with very stiff fines to ED if they refused.

[@Nightdare]

@@SuperAd1980 That wholly depends on what you signed up for when agreeing to the purchase I'll bet you haven't read the fine print let's say you paid for early access F-15, you knew this when you bought the "early acces" module,.. it's in the friggin description But things don't work, are incomplete Yes, that's why it said "Early Access" So,... You have your early acces F-15, you got exactly what you paid for ...Now tell me where ED went wrong and should give you back your money?

[@SuperAd1980]

@Nightdare no. EU law states the seller is liable for what they sell to the end customer.... The seller can then argue to get compensation from the manufacturer. The big presidents setting cases were against Microsoft, Google, Apple and Samsung. It's also why ED have been handing out refunds on request.

[@r4dio4ctiv3man9]

@@Nightdare Not realy. Contract conditions beeing illegal in the EU (such as the no refund for EA software) are simply invalid in the EU and there is nothing ED can do about it. Except risking their products getting banned from the EU market. Wich would be their death...

[@lilletrille8998]

I already had a lot of respect for Casmo, and now I have even more respect for him - I did not know that he removed his SE videos.

[@Megapihar]

This fact doesn't remove the Razbam mentality from their "so called" products

[@bluemey]

Most content creators are removing their related videos to avoid engaging newcomers to buy modules that might break within time or directly disappear from the game.

[@Dzsekeb]

Good job on that video. That 3rd party you quoted is right. Even if ED gets the up to date sourcecode, and even if they somehow find people to work on it, it would take years until they can deliver any significant changes. Taking over code from someone unwilling to give it is a frustrating process, especially if that someone has time to burn documentation and obfuscate things.

[@automag928]

exactly - just look at the mess with KSP2 and trying to reuse code, esp without the input of the prior devs

[@eatleadcobra]

This situation sucks. I am glad you made this video to get the implications out to hopefully a wider audience. And getting anonymous quotes from a third party dev is pretty based and investigative. So much focus on the right or wrong (Pay Razbam), but the reality is that no matter who is at fault, ED is in charge and they are sabotaging their own game and the confidence of every other third party because of this dispute. I can't imagine what would really be worth this to Nick but here we are.

[@xavierrennes7014]

I've got two Razbam modules (Mirage 2000 and South Atlantic) which seemingly will not be updated. As a result I immediately cease to buy other modules from DCS, as what happens with Razbam could also happen with other developers. ED is legally responsible for maintaining those modules, ED has to find a solution.

[@r4dio4ctiv3man9]

South Atlantic got an update recently. This is because RB is only the publisher for SA, the developement team is not part of RB and is not affected by that issue. They are also part of the Kola map team. What i´m trying to say is, that you at least don´t realy need to worry about South Atlantic.

[@xavierrennes7014]

@@r4dio4ctiv3man9 Thanks for this reply.

[@r4dio4ctiv3man9]

@@xavierrennes7014 My pleasure. But still, the real issue remains. Sadly.

[@SuperAd1980]

Any customer who lives in the EU (or the UK) is entitled to either: 1- The fault being fixed in a timely manor. or 2- A full CASH refund of the defective item. (although the customer can choose to accept store credit if they like) ... Many have already asked for, and received refunds. Big legal issue, which could be met with very stiff fines to ED if they refused.

[@r4dio4ctiv3man9]

@@SuperAd1980 Well spoken. Pretty sure the "no refund" policy is at least in the EU illegal, so ED would be under pressure if they don´t want to risk their product beeing banned from the EU market.

[@SuperAd1980]

4:56 - Anyone living in the EU or the UK can request a refund (including a full cash refund), as EU/UK law specifically requires it... Simply put, if there is no possibility for the module to be "repaired" they "must" allow a refund on request as the paid for service is not being given... There have been MANY who have already got a refund, or chosen to accept store credit through the DCS website.

[@jessicatimm559]

I already "lost" Hawk module, would be bad loosing Mirage/Harrier and of all F-15. Unbelievable.

[@DimosasQuest]

As long as they are on sale, no Razbam modules should be visible to the public.

[@erazorDev]

Sorry what?

[@Megapihar]

I agree. In this house we stand for saving ED's Money from razshit

[@MK-tt5xy]

Lol wut?

[@ethanhiggins4887]

Agreed. People new to DCS will see a video on a Razbam module from a month ago and have no reason to suspect that the module is unsupported and could break at any moment. All content creators should pull razbam content until the situation is resolved or ED ceases sale of the module(s).

[@_cyantist]

@@ethanhiggins4887 thats totally unrealistic

[@CptnFuentes_FR]

I cannot emphasise how sad i am about this whole story. As you rightfully pointed out, the whole trust in the eco-system is being tested right now. And yes, all devs from other platforms are also looking. It also means that all the money that was put into the ecosystem is now at risk. I'll take my story. I am on the planning phase of my new flight sim rig and i intend to go VR on DCS mainly. It's a 1500€ investment just for a Pimax Crystal. I am NOT putting that amout of money if i don't have any guarantee that the modules i want to fly with are going dark ! The story does not end at ED's doorstep, it might have very hard long term consequences for everyone...

[@Likeaworm]

Yup I was going to invest in a Hotas and VR headset this month but after reading this news I am skeptical at the overall business model of Eagle dynamics. Don’t be surprised if they start charging a yearly fee to use the game engine itself because the whole 3rd party module development strategy requires constant cash flow.

[@svmik]

Ridiculous situation, even for ED standards.

[@Megapihar]

This is because mostly of razbam cripples

[@Northern_Wings]

I feel like the problem is that DCS has no real competitor - you could argue IL-2, but not everyone wants to fly WWII aircraft, or not everyone wants to fly/grind in War Thunder for the jets. Falcon BMS is there, sure, but those guys work for free. I feel as if DCS/ED will *always* outpace their development cycle. In a perfect world, I'd love to see the 3rd party module makers band together to create a competitor to DCS. You'd be working with a newer engine (and not something continually upgraded from 2008), assumedly less bugs, and the benefit of hindsight. You'll know what mistakes not to make. I'm still hella sad about the Flogger. It's one of my favorite jets.

[@skiinginmt]

It's definitely part of the problem. ED treats their customers and content creators like trash and puts out broken, incomplete, and inconsistent products and some people think it's amazing because there's no other example of something like this that actually works.

[@PappaBear_yt]

This! 👍🏻👏🏻💪🏻🍻🍻

[@jungletroll3844]

I don't think there's much chance ED will remove modern jets like F-15E, harrier, mirage ect... because they are likely the biggest money makers. ED will have to maintain them themselves if they want to keep them and not go bankrupt IMO Another thing, I think ED is struggling for money because their sales are so frequent now. I remember years ago when a 50% happened once or twice a year but now its at least 3-4 a year

[@WalrusWinking]

Well DCS is also becoming a lot more popular and they're probably making more money bulk selling tons of modules and getting people hooked. (I'm one of them lol)

[@ImpendingJoker]

The most popular modules aren't by Razbam I hate to tell you. The F-16, F/A-18, AH-64(despite its flaws), the F-4, and F-14 are the most popular addons for DCS. You hardly see any Razbam stuff on servers these days being flown seriously, and that was before all of this happened. I think the JF-7 was more popular because of it being a stand in for REDFOR than the M2K.

[@battleboat12]

Razbam modules the biggest money makers? In what sense they’re either all old and have been purchased already or are basically non used like the mig haven’t seen much new hype around them in a long time.

[@lucaallemann5941]

@@battleboat12maybe not the biggest, but quite every player I known have atleast one razbam module

[@battleboat12]

@@lucaallemann5941 how many of them regularly fly them though, how many buy campaigns for them? What new money is ED getting from already sold assets? None

[@sandman11]

When this dispute first started I thought it would be settled shortly due to it being in the best interest for all parties. Now, I’m not too sure. Seems like both sides are digging their heels in the sand. This has been going on entirely too long.

[@92HazelMocha]

I mean I wouldn't say RB is "digging in their heels", they don't have the money to pay their devs because ED won't pay them. You can't make people work for free so until ED starts paying them RB can't really do much.

[@ligmasack9038]

@@92HazelMocha Scambam used this same excuse when the Hawk Mod went T*ts up in the Snow, when it was entirely Scambams fault because they failed to meet the expectations they agreed to and then wanted to get pissy when they were told they weren't getting paid. Scambam is just living up to the well deserved Moniker they almost got rid of; if only they could actually follow through instead of crying Foul when they are the ones committing the Foul.

[@weir-t7y]

DCS has been lacking development so the CEO could maintain his physical warbird collection which he funneled millions from the company for. It's not getting better

[@styloroc2000]

To add to your last point, many of these modules are effectively crowdfunded through early release/pre-sales. Whether or not ED (or whomever is responsible) is unable to refund people who preorder games, or even just the ambiguity of it in itself, will have an impact on the ecosystem and third party developers appetite for risk in the future. Like you said, there is not enough information to decide who is at fault and it might not even be that important, but ED's lack of a real response has real effects on the future of DCS.

[@MessierM66]

Dear ED, fix this issue immediately. I am not buying another module for DCS if this continues and the RB modules become deprecated. Get your act together NOW.

[@admiralqualityspretendingtofly]

Same. I no longer buy and advise everyone else to do the same until this is resolved in a way that doesn't screw over the customers. (Which isn't going to happen, so we can assume I'm gone as a future customer. Even with WW2 modules like the Corsair and Hellcat coming that I was super-keen on. Not anymore.)

[@ludgerhumpert3727]

Same, I will not buy anything for DCS until resolved.

[@iFlyFlightSims]

And here we are. The Strike Eagle passed away this morning with its radar.

[@admiralqualityspretendingtofly]

@@iFlyFlightSims Yep. Some rumors their radar coder may have put a "poison pill" into it. (I did the same once, though I got paid just in time to stop it.) Also NineLies said they're trying to fix the code, and as they clearly don't possess the source code, that can only mean they're trying to hack the executable binary, as Russian software crackers do. Nick is likely going to get himself sued right out of business. I predicted ED's downfall a while after Nick took over, after Igor died, and everything started going to sh*t. Frankly, I'm surprised it's taken him this long to fly it into the ground. He's clearly an awful businessman, and person as well.

[@sageg58]

Razbam made some of the most popular modules in the game, if future game updates brick them, isnt it foresable that many servers will jist stay on older versions of DCS where they work. Older versions of DCS=no new modules. No new modules=no money for ED. Its not like theirr are any modules that would come close to the F-15E/m2k/mig-19/harrier in popularity coming out anytime soon

[@sageg58]

And ED doesn't upgrade the core game, so not like any core game updates would be important enough to drop the 3rd most bought plane in the game

[@ZeSpektrum]

+ The Mig-23, long wait ahead...

[@sageg58]

@@ZeSpektrum the mig-23 was being made by razbam

[@ZeSpektrum]

@@sageg58 Yes, long wait ahead with the uncertainty if and when the work continues with it.

[@funkyschnitzel]

You may have missed the F-4 Phantom launch, which was massively hyped and has everyone playing it. Losing the Strike Eagle and the Harrier would be a blow to DCS, but not a death blow, I suspect. The mirage and mig would be less of a drama I think.

[@Stooltoad5017]

This whole situation is sad. I was excited for the mig 23, but if they’ve stopped updating their already existing modules it is likely they stopped updating the mig 23. I don’t personally play DCS right now (learning Il-2 atm) but the mig 23 might have done it for me. The Mig 19 as well, but again, if it is going to wither away I’m not buying it.

[@christophermcsherry2655]

I was anxiously awaiting in the MiG 23 too. Now I have to worry about the future of the modules I already own. At the very least ED needs to maintain the existing modules. Or giver everyone their money back. No matter what happens, this is not good for the hobby.

[@Megapihar]

Maybe the whole razbam selling through ED was just a ruse. The reality was that Razbam was developing the MiG-23 to train the North Koreans?

[@Stooltoad5017]

@@christophermcsherry2655I have read Razbam has the source code for all of their modules. I am not literate in anything related to coding but from my limited understanding Razbam is the only group who can update their modules.

[@liamtung4435]

@@Megapihar "What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul"

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

@@Megapihar Does the "D"PRK even have such modern equipment at all? Asking for a friend... XD

[@HarGowPilot]

Thank you, Enigma! Thank you for this video and for picking it up, speak out loud.

[@chrismaverick9828]

Anyone remember the Hawk T1-a? They need to get this sorted out fast, whatever issues are going on. A lot of people were excited about the Strike Eagle and love flying it, let alone the Mirage. The people who will suffer the most from this are the fans who shell out all the real money to both companies that keeps them working. Jaded fans do not keep buying your product in this day and age.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

The point you made about there being a potential resolution just over the horizon on the basis that the modules are still for sale without a disclaimer isn’t something I’d considered until now. I also don’t think there’s much wrong with continuing to cover content that isn’t supported, so long as anything new comes with a disclaimer. Though Casmo probably has more reach than most and I guess it’s still an issue for older content, so props to him for thinking of the bigger picture. Your server does have the MiG-19, which is Razbam property, so you may soon have to tackle a similar situation to what’s happening with the Mirage. My hope is that the situation is resolved and things go back to how they were, the worst case is that we have another Hawk situation and all trace of the modules get wiped from the sim. I expect what happens will be somewhere between those two things, and the more towards “back to normal” you lean, the more naive I think you’re being.

[@Kolobochok95]

The content side of things here is unique in that you are potentially turning people to buy a module that is unsupported and will be dropped soon in the worst case with potentially no direct refunds.

[@parab225]

For sure, this is the new normal. I expect any resolution is gonna be quite different from how things looked pre Razbamgate.

[@2612563]

... I didn't realise I have 80% of the Razbam modules listed... I guess it is time to looking for another flight sim...

[@tspencer227]

I think it needs to be pointed out that it's very, very likely we're not going to get a statement because of the nature of the dispute. This was a contractual dispute, and anybody who's ever worked in the business world knows that when you have a dispute between vendors and the company that hired them, the LAST thing you should ever do is blast it on social media- ESPECIALLY because there are usually clauses in business contracts to prevent exactly that from happening. This needs to be handled by the lawyers and the business units, and sadly that's going to take time while negotiations and discussions are happening. I honestly think the silence is a good sign that talks are still happening, and I'm guessing that ED doesn't want to make ANY statement, given the vitriol from the community when they make statements that don't pan out exactly the way the community thinks it should.

[@inf3243]

100%. Actually think the statements from (ex-) Razbam devs has only hurt the situation. It sucks, but everyone shutting up until there's concrete answers is probably the best move.

[@misarthim6538]

@@inf3243 This so much. The fact that Razbam doesn't seem to be willing to control their own employees, clearly speaking on behalf of the company, running their mouths on the internet tells a lot. Furthermore, nobody here really knows what are the contractual agreements and who does what. Can ED even pull the modules from the store at this point? How can someone claim that without reading the contract first.

[@PotatoTickler]

Very well spoken, I’m tired of this being pushed under the rug, and I’m so happy you’ve decided to actually confront the issue.

[@_mobot_]

hoggit or floggit, who will pop off first?

[@Enigma89]

Floggit makes trends, Hoggit fumbles them

[@c.g.262]

Someone said once that part of the contractual agreement between ED and 3rd parties is that ED has to be given the source code, and that ED holds the legal ability to "take over" abandoned modules. I don't know if that is true, but if it is, that might be the "way out" of this. And also might be the reason that these modules are still for sale. Because if ED and RAZABM part ways, ED will just put their own employees on at least maintaining them for the time being, and updating later in the future.

[@Fred-rv2tu]

There was a lot of anger around third parties when they implemented this as a response to the Hawk debacle. It is a way of saving modules but it’s of very little comfort when ED already has so much technical debt. They don’t have the resources to keep up with their own modules much less my abandoned ones.

[@c.g.262]

@@Fred-rv2tu The counter argument is that they don't have the income to support a large staff. Some people say that is true, some say its BS. Personally I don't know. Only ED knows how their financial books look.

[@LeoH3L1]

That only occurs when the module leaves "early access", it needs to be every time there's a update otherwise devs will just keep them in permanent "early access" just to avoid handing over and their leverage.

[@ElHyperion]

Unfortunately this doesn't apply to this case as ED doesn't have the source code to any Razbam module, AFAIK. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[@thesweatleaf]

that may apply going forward, but it appears the dispute is about ED acquiring that info from Razbam, when they already had an agreement that may not have required it

[@Wildharrier]

The Mirage 2000 was the first module I purchased. No fear on saying It is top 3 BEST modules by far. It is such a shame to see It being destroyed, with the others, by pure incompetence... I Hope that at least the give Up the money back...

[@ImpendingJoker]

Well in terms of sales it's not even in the Top 3, so try again.

[@Wildharrier]

@@ImpendingJoker So what??. Obviously the 90% of the clients are from western countries, and the buy the aircraft they know and love from their airforces, hence the 18 and 16. And those 2 are like, at least, 1 level below de quality of the Mirage. But is just my opinion of course... By way, one example is the simple effect of the Sonic boom, a thing that Mirage has and the 18 and 16 don't...that's without entering the radar, weapons, etc. I also own and love the 18, but yeah...

[@ImpendingJoker]

@@Wildharrier What does that have to do with ~anything? It's a global market and the numbers are the numbers. You're the one that said it was the Top 3 Best by far, all I did is point out that you are statistically incorrect and you blow a gasket. haha

[@Wildharrier]

@@ImpendingJoker yep, I said: on my opinion. Obviously is quite subjective. Others will say another top 3, and the stadistics say the most sold are the F-teen series because they are the most loved ones for X reasons(not even checked It), as It should be people as my self buy them. You literally did not read, and impossed something no one was saying it was the rule... Simply saying that under my own experience and critic eye, Mirage 2K was top 3. Hopefully you get It now mate!

[@ThunderDucky187]

I asked ED for a refund on the M2000c Yersterday. They replied that they will not refund as support is ongoing.

[@karapus785]

I wonder where it continues?))))))

[@DeathBlossom867]

ED is really becoming despicable.

[@Likeaworm]

Everyone should spam refund tokens for Razbam modules to let them know we are not going to play along with shady business practices. Everytime an entity has a monopoly on something they act in this fashion. It seems to be apart of the human condition.

[@gambler1298]

Since this clash started I've only dedicated my gaming hours to enjoying my F-15E while I still can. This dispute will last longer than we think and by then, the 60 dollar plane I paid for will become unplayable

[@skarbimirprokopek6512]

Thank you for covering this issue, as often your voice is probably the best comment on the question. As a mere player, I don't have nearly as much insight in the under-the-hood stuff but I definitely lost a lot of trust in the perennity of the whole ecosystem. I tend to think all 3rd party devs should have the possibility to have their own store, as Heatblur does, so that my money goes straight to the devs and then back to Ed, not the other way round. I didn't stop playing Razbam modules, in fact my DCS experience was mostly Mirage, then Harrier. For now, I created a second install for my Razbam birds that I intend to keep frozen as a backup. But this can only work for a time. We need to push for a resolution that would at least allow for the already existing modules to be maintained, if not for the continuation of their projects (and I was really eager for that MiG-23).

[@Taipan303]

This situation puts the whole pre-order/pre-sale system that ED started relying upon into the trash can IMO. We can never trust ED with a pre-order early access again, especially since they are refusing refunds.

[@SuperAd1980]

True, but any customer who lives in the EU (or the UK) is entitled to either: 1- The fault being fixed in a timely manor. or 2- A full CASH refund of the defective item. (although the customer can choose to accept store credit if they like) ... Many have already asked for, and received refunds. Big legal issue, which could be met with very stiff fines to ED if they refused.

[@iFlyFlightSims]

News update: Now it’s over! The Strike Eagle is broken.

[@OfficialUSKRprogram]

Last I heard, most of the devs left Razbam, it's not getting fixed.

[@Savage_Viking]

Yep, hard to work for free when you have to put food on the table. I lost trust in ED to do anything right.

[@r4dio4ctiv3man9]

Yes, but they also stated to come back and finish the Strike Eagle once RB gets payed.

[@why-not-fly-the-av8b]

I would fckin' pay razbam if that meant I can keep my harrier in a playable form 😭

[@OverG88]

You haven't learn anything? Didn't you?

[@cornelius2993]

So, up date 34 people would pay a second time for something they already payed!? You're part of the problem !

[@__Dusty_]

Thank you for diplomatically adding to the noise on this issue Enigma! I have decided to speak with my wallet. I was going to purchase the CH47, Afghan and F4 but I am not going to pick them up until I have some concrete answers. I love the Strike Eagle module, I reinstalled DCS just for it and I'm so disappointed to see what is happening to it. It had such momentum and some stunning features. That radar, oh that radar!!

[@Fred-rv2tu]

I’m f you watch the 47 trailer you can tell the release will either be a disaster or pushed back a year. The Afghan tiered release also screams trouble.

[@skiinginmt]

I was looking forward to the F4, but ED is bent on insulting it's customers and generally being an embarrassment. Certainly not buying another terrain.

[@tickledpinkmist]

If it doesn’t work, someone owes us money!

[@PrimetimeCasual]

A very well thought through commentary on the situation. My opinion is that these modules should not be currently for sale - given the learning curve, by the time you notice that the module is malfunctioning due to lack of maintenance, your period for refund will already have passed (speaking as a Steam player). As a software developer - that DCS is "a buggy mess" is not surprising given the immense complexity. That, however, means that constant maintenance, patches, and updates by the module developers are *crucial*. And even *if* the issue gets resolved amicably, the amount of catch-up that RAZBAM needs to do in order to get the modules patched to the current version of DCS may be quite prohibitive. ED having access to the sourcecode also is mostly irrelevant - unless RAZBAM has documented everything to the smallest detail (and even then), you can't just look at their code and continue where they left off. It would take serious manpower and time to understand WTF is happening and why. Basically, as a customer? I paid money. I don't care who is at fault. Get it sorted out. :)

[@stephencann122]

Hey, thanks for the video Enigma. I have over 10,000 hours flying in DCS. I own the Strike Eagle and the Harrier so if the modules do completely break it will affect me to a moderate amount. However, I'm going to give the problem time to work itself out. There are so many scenarios where all our fears won't materialize. Here are a few off the top of my head. 1. Razbam and DCS could eventually come to terms. 2. DCS could take over support of the Razbam modules. 3. The modules are allowed to wither and die but another 3rd party or DCS themselves make new versions of the modules, all be it way down the road. I could go on but all I'm saying is that it might take years to resolve our concern but I think it's very likely. Being a DCS lover or flight sim lover means a hobby spanning years and decades any ways. Last I want to comment on Razbam saying they are "not getting paid by DCS". It's misleading because it implies Razbam isn't getting paid enough or at all for their modules which is clearly false.

[@gungriffen]

We lost the Hawk this way years ago.

[@tman41291]

So is it ED being problematic and dirty? Or were the hawk devs causing issues?

[@mro9466]

​​@tman41291 I think with the hawk, it was clear that the devs were not completely clean

[@rjt2291]

The Hawk is completely unrelated. VEAO shut down because they got sued for property theft.

[@weir-t7y]

​@@tman41291ED isn't paying Razbam for their work. ED isn't working on their game, instead funneling money to the CEO's personal toys. And no, I don't mean his wages. He took out a multimillion dollar "loan" to maintain his personal fleet of warbirds

[@gungriffen]

@@rjt2291 Regardless, ED didn't pick up the Hawk. It was patched out and lost.

[@Gman-109]

Agreed on ALL points - you sir aren't "dumb" even though you referred to yourself as such, you have an intelligently conveyed set of points here, you obviously have put a lot of thought into this video, and just because your skillset isn't in creation, doesn't mean you aren't intelligent. I appreciate the way you posed the important questions here. Tough spot for many of us to be in, from customers, partners, content creators who have a vested interest in keeping a good relationship with ED so they can't say much....etc

[@Vogelchen]

It breaks my heart to see the M2K slowly withering away like that ...

[@Vertailer]

I think the content creators can just say something in the intro. Like: „Hey guys, today i‘ll show … keep in mind that the future of the module is uncertain“. That is an honest statement, that helps the viewers and doesn‘t decrease the content quality.

[@ach3909]

The problem isn't new content. It's old ones from like 2 or 3 years ago. Like whole entire guide series for example by the grim reapers that pop up when you type "DCS Mirage 2000C" on youtube search.

[@ethanhiggins4887]

When I first started playing Arma I saw a video about Arma 2 milsim which peaked my interest. I turned around and bought Arma 2 and low and behold Arma 3 had already been out for a couple years and Arma 2 was completely dead. Sure, I could have done some more research, but for someone with absolutely no knowledge or experience with the Arma platform, it was easy to see a somewhat recent video on Arma 2 and expect it to still be alive and well. Now imagine someone who has no experience with DCS sees a video on any one of Razbam's modules, except instead of them being a couple years old like in my case, they are only a few months old. Most people would rightfully assume that a module that was seen in a video just a few months prior would still be alive and well, and they would be quite surprised to find that their plane is full of bugs that could possibly be game breaking. That wouldn't be a huge problem if they could turn around and return their module, except oh wait, ED is blocking all returns. Overall, I support content creators idea to remove Razbam content for the time being. Until the module is removed from the ED and Steam Store's, it simply worsens the problem by causing more people to purchase a module which is unsupported, not to mention the money isn't going to the rightful owners. It also puts pressure on ED to resolve the problem in a timely manner.

[@Stubbino]

One thing to point out about the continual sale of modules is that there's likely to be contractual obligations to have the modules available for sale. So much of this dispute will be between lawyers and everything all parties are saying or not saying will be based on their advice. Even if ED or Razbam were totally planning to part ways, you'll not see that reflected in the store until the dispute is "resolved".

[@mcgherkinstudios]

Exactly, if it ended up in court and ED had pulled the module off sale, and RB had won, they could claim that they were owed x months of sales even if ED didn’t actually sell any modules, as it wasn’t RB’s choice to pull it from sale. I think the best, most reasonable ending to this situation is that ED hands over the money and RB hands over the source code, and they go. If they feel that strongly that they’re being screwed over then they’ll be happy to be bought out and released. ED can keep those modules working and selling, and we get to keep flying them, if maybe the eagle’s development is slowed. There are so many conflicting stories out there about what is supposedly happening, it could be anyone’s guess. On previous form though, I’m probably trusting ED.

[@msi1411]

You are doing gods work, nobody explained the feelings a lot of people share better than you!

[@emknight84]

The single most damaging aspect of this is that any 3rd party module maker could theoretically do this over a future dispute and everyone would be screwed. Even if it’s a “complete” module without support it will break in future patches. Everyone keeps talking about preorders and they are missing the real issue. Any non ED product is a higher risk purchase. If ED doesn’t refund everyone for all their Razbam purchases then I will have to reconsider further purchases and so should everyone else

[@TheRealSuperhavoc]

This'll probably get drowned out, but my biggest concern here is that no matter who's in the wrong, this sets a precedent for ALL current and future 3rd party aircraft in DCS, especially with this supposedly happening to Heatblur years ago with the Tomcat, which would indicate a pattern if true. My biggest question now is who's next?

[@Enigma89]

I read all comments but I am replying to let you know you aren't drowned out. You aren't alone brother

[@TheRealSuperhavoc]

@@Enigma89 Thanks, good to hear from you

[@Enigma89]

🙏

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

5:52 Wow. What a move. Maybe it's good that I haven't found enough time to invest into the Strike Eagle yet, but this is really a sad thing going on. I totally hope this will get resolved somehow. 6:16 Valid thoughts and that's why I think the stuff should be kept up eventually. But putting some slight pressure on the whole situation (just not too much!) might not be the worst idea to have.

[@kasmiller9289]

RAZBAM have made an official statement on this. “We want to assure you that it has never been nor will it be our intention to abandon our products. We look forward to a prompt and satisfactory resolution, turn the page, and move forward” That was the last we heard on the issue. Let’s take Ron at his word and let them sort it out.

[@jinenjuce]

Here's the problem. Razbam already had to let go a lot of the staff who worked on these modules, some of them key to it because they haven't been able to pay salaries. Even if ED and RB settle their dispute today, RB is going to be hamstrung in what they can do.

[@einarabelc5]

Because the PR people have decision making power, when?

[@Warriorcat49]

Just because it's not their *intention* to abandon the products, doesn't mean that it couldn't theoretically still happen. This is a face-saving comment, for better or worse. I hope it pans out, but I wouldn't take it at face value.

[@ElHyperion]

I've postponed learning the Harrier that I got years ago and just started learning it a few weeks back, and now I'm thinking I might not even be able to utilise it to its fullest before it eventually breaks...

[@WalrusWinking]

In my opinion Eagle Dynamics needs to stop stuffing tech and eye candy into the game engine and work on EXTREME optimization and bug fixes for a while like I'm talking for months just stop and let the module makers catch up. It's crazy that I can play Microsoft Flight Simulator with tons of aircraft and different models running at OVER 100 FPS but in DCS I get like 20 FPS on medium to low settings on the Caucasus map not even gonna mention Persian gulf or Marianas it's why I don't buy as many maps the performance on the newer maps is terrible. Hell Persian gulf still has this issue with the ground going completely black when I'm in the F-18 on the taxiway. (I've reported it 3-4 times already) I have the harrier and the mirage 2000 I'm worried I'm going to lose these modules.

[@imaginarybaron5864]

It’s because dcs is a pyramid scheme only kept alive by pumping out new maps and modules. ED has no incentive to pause that effort to work on the core gameplay or code (other than the bare minimum required to merely keep the game viable on mid-high end hardware

[@Drovek451]

Basically, this. Optimizations don't bring money directly, so of course they're lower priority. They're still banking heavily on there not being real direct competition.

[@mrpawno4955]

Im getting way less FPS in studio sim aircraft in MSFS then in DCS, im not sure what youre doing wrong

[@TazziedoesWT]

Are you using VR? If not, i think you need to optimise your settings. I have a 4070, i get a solid 60FPS on Sinai in the Mirage. If you need, tell me your specs and I’ll see where I can help you.

[@battleboat12]

I’ve never had that issue in the f-18 or any aircraft in any map and I pretty much exclusively fly the Persian gulf map, sounds like a non widespread error to me bud

[@Savage1-0-7]

This actually hurts my soul. If the razbam modules get pulled/continue unsupported I will forever lose faith in ED and they will never see another one of my dollars

[@f15sim]

The MPCD in the F-15C has been broken for over 20 years. I wouldn't hold your breath.

[@vincentvoncarnap]

what do you mean by this? it works for me

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

Almost as bad as Windows (File) Explorer's Alzheimer's. That's been diagnosed in 2001 IIRC. That darn thing just is completely incapable of remembering any folder settings properly ever since. And M$ just won't fix it.

[@f15sim]

@@vincentvoncarnap It's a Multi Purpose COLOR Display.

[@vincentvoncarnap]

@@f15sim well yes, but it only shows one page, with nothing but text on that page. i dont see why there would be any color

[@f15sim]

@@vincentvoncarnap The MPCD renders most text as white/gray, with many elements using color. ED got it wrong, despite being told it was wrong during the beta testing. (I was a beta tester on LOMAC.)

[@monostripezebras]

1:38 Props to the absolutely accurate simulated crack in the facade!

[@emperornazuz1205]

Worst part is that ED now handing out refurnds profiteers from it by forcing players to buy other modules since they dont do a full refund. I dont like jumping to conclusions but they should remove the modules from the store asap.

[@Ronin13196]

I'm cautiously optimistic. The F-15E is my favorite aircraft, and my favorite module thus far (until days from now when the OH-58 comes out). The implications of this are pretty grim, if Razbam and ED continue to fight, or sever ties, they need to disclose that ASAP. If they do kiss and make up, I hope it happens sooner rather than later so we can have some outlook to the future. My hope is that cooler heads prevail and they bury the hatchet and continue to make good content on both ends. I want Razbam to be successful, I want the F-15E and their other modules to live on.

[@BeefSupremeAviation]

I was about to purchase the Harrier when this drama broke. Cant justify $70 plus taxes for something that won’t be supported.

[@firestarteronyoutube5542]

5:43 them selling something not as advertised (i.e. a Broken Module) is illegal in the UK and EU States to the best of my understanding. My biggest fear is that they refuse a refund request and get a class action lawsuit/legal action taken against them. I don't know how precarious ED's finances are, but I imagine they'd be made far worse by any long and sustained Legal Action.

[@captain_kirkyt2481]

F-15e is my favorite plane to fly right now, I just hope it’s updated eventually

[@reaper378]

I have 41 licences in DCS but only own the Harrier from Razbam which is one of my favourite modules. I purchased Flanker in 1993 ? If I lose the Harrier because of this debacle it will be my last DCS purchase.

[@2ksnakenoodles]

I don't think Razbam will stop working on DCS as a whole, as they're still the Armee De l'Air's training module provider. Maybe this has changed over the years? I highly doubt they'd want to jeopardize that part of their business.

[@castor3020]

Mirage 2000C is no longer in service. AdA has their own simulator for Mirage 2000D and 2000-5F.

[@2ksnakenoodles]

@@castor3020 Oh okay, I thought that razbam also did the -5 and -D versions for them as well.

[@FreeFragUK]

To be honest ED need to sort this ASAP. To me this serves as a warning. I am comfortable investing in the F4 so I did but I have a lot of Razbam's modules and this has me questioning whether or not I continue to invest in DCS and its modules moving forwards. I love my helicopters and I'm psyched for the Kiowa but looking at the Razbam situation I now have you question whether or not it's wise to invest in anymore modules.

[@Johnwilkinsonofficial]

new to dcs here: are there modules that are solid and secure because they are somehow completely backed by ED hand in glove ? really excited about the kiowa but not if it will just fall apart if i buy it...

[@blackmaster993]

Well, the ones ED actually "own" such as the Hornet and the Falcon

[@KrustentierBarbier]

Don't pour money into DCS. Lots of hot air and promises, behind the curtain it's a never-ending early access treadmill to generate income. New module, support it well for a year until the next module is hyped, then slow down development so they can support the new module, rinse, repeat.

[@sloppydog4831]

Thank you man for having the courage of saying the things that need to be said. This situation is a mess, and it has affected some of my preferred modules of all time. If they don't solve this the niche will suffer a lot.

[@jw8943]

it's never been more over

[@brianmvalley5634]

Mig-19 is broken too. It won't start on the ground unless you use the auto start sequence. Manual start won't take the throttle out of the cut detent anymore.

[@sg0101010]

For me it means I’ll never buy a module from ED again. Whatever the issue is they can fix it for us

[@RevFilmore]

The forum post displayed at 0:30 is 2 months old - is this still unresolved?

[@Enigma89]

Yes

[@RevFilmore]

@@Enigma89 saw the drama in the forums meanwhile. much talks, little results. they better get this sorted, i agree with quite a couple things here

[@Jollyroger1096]

Maybe, we, as module owners should demand refunds for the Razbam modules that are no longer supported. Especially the F-15E as it was JUST released and is getting no love to fix it.

[@smaffoo]

I think your final point about it being bad for the scene as a whole is very important. I do not use DCS, but as an avid MSFS user, if this were to happen there with Fenix/PMDG, it would shake people's confidence in third party content and developers

[@DanielSirqueira]

I think Razbam's biggest problem is that they want to release a bunch of modules, but they never finish a single module. the most complete module is the Mirage 2000.

[@battleboat12]

I mean that’s a DCS problem in general but yeah Razbam had all that controversy not to long ago with the harrier being “feature complete” but missing things they said were supposed to be on the aircraft, hell even back then they claimed it was ED’s fault but people seem to be overlooking that piece of history.

[@DanielSirqueira]

@@battleboat12 Whenever you say something about a problem in the module, Razbam says this phrase... "The problem is ED's fault".

[@battleboat12]

@@DanielSirqueira what’s that old ww2 German tv character sgt something “I know nothing.”- Razbam

[@scampaboy]

I think RB’s biggest problem is they haven’t been paid, and they need to pay the bills

[@CVSiN]

@@battleboat12 Sgt Shultz Hogans Heroes.

[@raviar_dcs]

IMHO the best video you ever created.

[@Enigma89]

Thanks! From a production quality I tend to agree. I am starting to get better at this, it is just tiny small little steps with each video.

[@JoshuaBFishing]

Removing the modules for sale could hurt ED's legal position in any pending litigation. Just a guess, no evidence to support it. But I like to give ED the benefit of the doubt, instead of casting them as greedy money hungry rats that so many are portraying them as. More than likely, they have a lawyer telling them what to and what not to do.

[@acdcdave1387]

Thank you for this video, my friend and I hadn't flown in nearly a year and we both noticed the m2000 was performing terribly. Now we know why. This is disappointing because I genuinely enjoy flying that m2000 so much

[@therealtjpek]

It should be fixed soon, either this update or the next

[@acdcdave1387]

@@therealtjpek I didn't see it in the latest update change log however I was reading the latest article on Stormbirds about this Razbam situation and someone posted in the comments there that the update may not have included it in the change log but that it was indeed included in the files. Would you happen to know if there is any truth to this? I can try to get on tonight to test it but I may not have time

[@therealtjpek]

@@acdcdave1387 it was in the update, de plane is back to 9g. No changelogs.

[@acdcdave1387]

@@therealtjpek great news! Thanks so much, I really enjoy that aircraft

[@IRONIC1688]

I feel like you've touched the most important DCS problem, ED keeps adding modules and maps, wrapping it all in a nice graphics improvement but they are barely touching the broken aspects or the non developed parts of the DC world. Combined Armes 15 yo models and logic, Carriers, ATC, IFF, SAR, AI Issues. They are working on bringing early access stuff to fiture complete level and are not improving the 'World', the sandbox that is the true reason we love this sim so much.

[@raketny_hvost]

sounds like WT but without grind and with bigger hardware requirements

[@boomerdiorama]

I only ever fly and navigate the F18 on auto pilot and do touch and goes in the rain . . . lol. DCS has always been a cockpit simulator in my experience that never works consistently - but oh well - been around since the beginning. 😁Cheers.

[@flightkimulator9612]

I am an engineer. What I do know is that when you stop paying vendors, you’re usually in trouble. I didn’t know they’re still on sale… so that’s another data point…

[@icedragon769]

To me it seems like a data point in favor of an expectation that a resolution will come.

[@flightkimulator9612]

@@icedragon769 do not underestimate how scummy software companies are

[@Galf506]

Remember that this "not getting paid" aspect has NEVER BEEN CONFIRMED BY ANYONE WITH AN OFFICIAL POSITION ON THE MATTER! This is the biggest red flag

[@flightkimulator9612]

@@Galf506 then ED should publicly state they’re suing for libel.

[@battleboat12]

@@flightkimulator9612you’re an engineer idk if you’re an independent contractor or not but if you hadn’t been paid for work you’ve done wouldn’t YOU be suing for wages? The same basic thing you’re saying about ED and libel can be flipped back on Razbam about their income.

[@Knvst]

This being the second time ED has pulled these shenanigans with third party devs was enough for me to uninstall it for good. As much as I enjoy the fidelity and the flight model, the flaws, bugs, and shady business practices were serious hindrances to my enjoyment of it. I desperately hope that someday that we'll have an actual competitor to DCS in the combat flight sim space.

[@GraylightSynes]

Easy solution: ED should pay Razbam what they are owed. It's honestly wild seeing people treat "pay people what they are owed" as a "side" that they're afraid to take.

[@_Am0N_]

Thanks for (re)opening my eyes! I kinda forgot about all this drama and was also playing with the idea of getting the F-15E or Harrier. I will put that on hold till this situation clears up.

[@muhammadsaleh7229]

At this point , if ED doesn't change their business practices , falcon bms and falcon 5.0 are gonna overtake dcs world . Falcon bms just got a new update and it is already looking beautiful

[@pixelmassacre1]

Even without a dispute between a module maker and the platform, module makers will gradually lessen support for their modules (Natural, they have other projects to work on to continue making money). If a module is considered essentially complete and acceptably bug free as of a certain date, I think it's fair for the module maker to give it very little time and attention. It becomes the responsibility of the platform to not break anything. ie maintain backwards compatibility with older modules. Even without the module source code, if you've made a game engine change that has caused a problem with a module, that should be reversable even without the module makers assistance. Of course this is a very different situation if the product is still being sold in an early acces state and there has been no comuniction to say it will never get finished.

[@rampageExtremeGamer]

I'm stuck on the last 2.8 version as the 2.9 (NVIDIA) update broke the ground / building rendering for my NVIDIA Titan X(p) - ED didn't give aff when I posted my error report. So who cares - all my Razbam modules still work with 2.8 - not buying anymore maps or modules. I have every module and map sold prior to 2.9 and many many mods working flawlessly in 2.8, so RIP DCS.

[@madaxe606]

ED very much needs to make a no-BS statement about what’s happening, because this potentially affects every 3rd party module. Agreed that continuing to sell Razbam modules without a warning about the lack of support is very shady.

[@jaromirandel543]

As a customer (consumer), I could care less about internal disputes. I am simply a customer, I buy goods and the seller has to comply with all the legal conditions that apply in the country. If the contract guarantees support, they must provide it. If they knowingly sell a broken product or otherwise mislead the buyer, they can be severely punished for that. Which is currently ED's problem, because ED is the one who sells the modules in question, regardless of who creates them. In our country, by law, the seller is responsible for the products.

[@PhantomReapingFagotSquad]

Thank you so much! ED should have long informed casual players at least that 'something' is up before they press 'purchase' on Steam or on ED store. Investing dedication (study/practice/heart) into a module is a real commitment and people who have jobs instead of living on the internet are oblivious to the current situation.

[@tbe0116]

I don’t get why anyone is taking sides. We know nothing about what is going on other than a rant post from a Razban employee and a vague statement from ED.

[@Daniel-jq4qk]

Multiple "Employees" of Razbam as well as Devs. Not just any Devs either very well known and respected ones.

[@shyneus9773]

Well, this is the first I've heard of this entire situation. Damn. And I loved listening to the radar hit gimbal limit in my StrEagle