Special Undercut Cutter-1

The beginning of the special cutters needed for the titanium parts.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

That collet chuck is a very elegant design, thanks for sharing. I always thought its a commercial chuck when I saw it on your grinder :D

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks Stefan!

[@kphpromecanica2391]

@@EdgePrecision You two should work together. It would be a good duo.

[@paulmace7910]

Peter You continue to amaze me with your skills. That collet drawbar arrangement is genius. Your ability to make a tool to do exactly what you want is a testament to your skills as a programmer, machinist, toolmaker and businessman. Thank you for taking time to share your expertise with your fans.

[@zephyrold2478]

I second that.

[@beydlercnc]

Third

[@Deipnosophist_the_Gastronomer]

About 4 or 5 videos ago, I thought this was a pretty complicated part to make. I now realise that I don't know what complicated means. Well played, sir.

[@trace12345678900]

Peter your videos are excellent!! I’ve learned more from you than I did in 4 years of tech school. The in depth explanations are so informative. Thank you for your time and effort in making these videos.

[@account0199]

Peter: "Alright, I'mma cut this short, this video is getting a little long" Me: "No, it isn't"

[@comictrio]

You are are a master in this industry. You make it look so easy, and yet as a machinist myself, I know it isn't easy.. I remember AvE saying how much he looks up to you in your mastery with the CNC machines after he got his own Hass milling machine. I'm looking forward to seeing these cutters being made.

[@glennfelpel9785]

Your videos would never be too long. The time just flies by every time. Sure am looking forward for the continuation. Thank you

[@jimsvideos7201]

That chuck is a remarkable achievement too.

[@markdoyle9642]

WOW! Excellent machining. You inspire me to improve my work strategy and quality. Your videos are a master's class. Thank You.

[@6-4fab53]

That chuck is a great example of awesome engineering! It's also nice to know that preformed carbide blanks are readily available for a reasonable price. I'm sure most would think they would only be available to high production type shops. As always, great content!

[@ActiveAtom]

Hi Peter thank you for sharing your shop built grinding chuck in greater detail 8620 (researching to learn) we really like the build, you do really GREAT threading talk and works. We are happy to learn these collet holding details some here may not, we are into these details, take all the time you need in our opinion :):). Lance & Patrick.

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks again guys!

[@BobSmith-jf8dt]

that fixture is a masterpiece as usual. thx for the video!

[@jimsvideos7201]

Gee whiz Peter you have a knack for finding engineers who need to brush up on design for manufacturability!

[@richardhead8264]

Jim's videos Great point regarding DFM! 👍🏼 One solution might be to expose the undercut volume for direct cutter access, and then fabricate a plug that forms the blind face of the undercut. 👌🏼

[@Machinist-wf1iw]

I love this guy he talks my kinda language . if you watch his videos . He just makes what he needs most of the time .. why not has access to a full machine shop

[@joelsee7941]

I setup and run thread grinders, but the shop has center less, blanchard, cylindrical, surface, i.d. and o.d., and some of these cats are real good at what they do but I dont know man, you're a beast for real, a craftsman of the first order. Thanks for the videos sharing what you've learned, I appreciate it and have learned much

[@bryanhedstrom7071]

That collet chuck is incredible!

[@joshuareynolds8324]

Hi Peter, a friend of mine gave me a handy tip the other day. If you need a little more clearance in a thread to allow for zinc coating or heat treat distortion etc. when rigid tapping run a second cycle with the start height adjusted 0.1mm or so higher. Apparently taps generally don’t mind cutting this way. I see you mostly mill your threads but I reckon this is a handy tip. Keep up with the awesome videos!

[@EdgePrecision]

That’s a idea. I will keep that in mind next time. Thanks.

[@tomsemo8186]

Had to watch twice. Much information and great thought process. Very interesting collet chuck,

[@akfarmboy49]

wow, i've always looked at that collet chuck thinking it was standard with that grinder , i've always looked at the checkering and the wrench, i like the flexing design, is that area case-hardened also? i like the double action treads clever, thank you for video.

[@thomasgiovine2211]

That took me a second to figure how the threads worked on the collet holder a defiant masterpiece looking forward to seeing the cutter ground nice work Peter

[@rupert5390]

The design engineers that made up this part are from "Bastard incorporated" what a nasty complex part - however it says a lot about your dependability as a machinist that they come to you fro the work - best real life machining content on U tube. thanks Peter

[@abacabdk3490]

Nice custom chuck and good use of a differential thread system. Respect

[@franksndergaard3081]

Engineering at it's finest, thank you for sharing 👍

[@pennk4]

Multi-start left and right thread to create that checkered grip pattern. That is just cool! That chuck is beyond amazing. Thank you!! -Dan

[@scotty362100]

You really should Patent that collet chuck design! Brilliant, just brilliant.

[@tmurray1972]

I bet you don’t have a whole lot of competition for kind of jobs you take on...lol.👍 Awesome work👌

[@capnthepeafarmer]

It's always interesting to see solutions to problems. That's a super fancy collet, took a lot of forethought into the design.

[@mikebrowne5152]

Have you checked out AB tools? You can contact Alfred Lyon over there they seem to specialize in custom key seat type cutters out of solid and tipped carbide.

[@EdgePrecision]

If it has to be custom made than I will do it. I was trying to find something standard off the shelf. But thanks.

[@gusbisbal9803]

I HAVE to know what this part does. It looks like the most complicated machining ever done in History

[@EdgePrecision]

I don’t even know what it does!

[@gearloose703]

If I had to make it, I would want to see the person who designed it.

[@josephcitizen4195]

@@gearloose703 I'd at least want to talk to them in a stern voice and when they explained why it had to be done that way and I realized there wasn't another cheaper option, I'd say "yes that's what I was thinking too. Good job."

[@gearloose703]

There is always a better way. It would not be the first time someone was tasked just to draw the part, as a place holder and to see if it was possible to fit and route everything and they never got back to it. Not that I have ever done that. Or they just didn't give a damn or know better.

[@martylawson1638]

It sure looks like some custom valve body. Probably has to fit in a tiny space given the ports going in random directions. Good chance that under-cut was the least nasty thing the engineers could do to get it to work :-)

[@leifmaginnis7571]

Wow, that CAD image was nuts.. So interesting showing your process looking for the proper tooling

[@brownmilligan1936]

i had no idea cutters could be made that way, using a solid blank. thanks for your time and skill.

[@EdgePrecision]

Almost all carbide tools are ground by from solid blanks.

[@euclidallglorytotheloglady5500]

Your chuck is absolutely brilliant! The folks that are requesting that part you're working are a bunch of sadists! I mean, good grief, surprised they didn't want it in a week.

[@maikeydii]

Would be nice to see Peter's quotation for making these kinds of parts. Regarding the DFM I suspect that there are some rather tricky design constraints that force them to design it that way. What we have seen from this part it's a damn swiss cheese.

[@gearloose703]

Whatever it is, it is obviously not enough because they keep sending them :D

[@JlerchTampa]

You probably made some poor bastard at Centennial Carbide smile after being told about a one-off order of 10 custom Pre-Form blanks they were told to go fabricate. My Instincts tell me that their normal custom Pre-Form orders are probably WAY more complicated than what you asked for in your drawing! :-) I had also assumed the collet chuck was OEM for your grinder, I also like the fact you built two 'just in case', and super bonus points for using a flexure in the design. So much Awesome technology explained in easily understood terms and all in one video!!

[@richardfoulkes8436]

Next time, see if customer is open to EDMing the connector hole instead of such a deep saw cut. Its slow in titanium, but the tooling is just an aluminum rod with a copper electrode mounted at a right angle.

[@mattm7535]

Awesome stuff, as usual. The thought you put into your work is impressive.

[@piccilos]

Really cool collet chuck design

[@gbowne1]

Thanks for sharing the chuck Peter its cool. Never would have thought about it.

[@TheScootergod123]

Hello Peter, I have machined parts with similar undercuts/slots using a Iscar multi master tool. This tool is a steel shank that you thread a carbide 3-4 cutting edge slotting insert in to. I have had great results using this tool and I recommend you look into it (if you haven’t already). Thank you for the wonderful content.

[@EdgePrecision]

The only tool Iscar makes that goes large enough in diameter is the one I showed in the video. You saw in the video the problem it has foor this application. The multi master cutters only go to around .850 in diameter. Not large enough for their shank sizes. But thanks anyway.

[@TheScootergod123]

Thank you for the reply, I must have missed that part in the video haha. I was thinking you could possibly use the MM Grit 28K-2.50-.02 insert which is 1.09” in diameter and mount it to a .375” diameter shank. I’m not sure how much radial depth you need or the corner radius required in the undercut, but it’s just a thought. Thanks

[@mannycalavera121]

We're facing similar issues with large undercuts but in aluminium. I've made an indexable slot cutter with through coolant on the lathe. No idea if it works yet but here's hoping:)

[@kwasg3]

Peter, pretty sure I saw the cutter you need at Harbor Freight. Isle 3 I think..... Great vid as always. Your vids actually have inspired me to try to be better as a hobby machinist that is struggling to make simple stuff for my car projects. So Thank You!

[@maxleadleybrown]

Thank you for sharing your ideas - problems solved makes the best type of video.

[@RobertSmith-os2zj]

Awesome collet chuck . You sir, are a genius.

[@ritsjohndeere]

Good implementation of a differential pitch screw setup. Not just handy for extra force but also useful for fine adjustment applications!

[@douro20]

It's remarkable that a company which only makes short-run production carbide tooling will have its own furnaces for sintering carbide rod. That is almost unheard of.

[@jwharvey7167]

Like many here I am blown away by the skill and ingenuity shown here. I must raise the point. My boss pays me to keep my machine running not to make tools. We have some very good tool and cutter grinders in the area that we use for just this sort of project. When cost analysis is done it is more profitable to send a cad drawing to the tool and cutter grinders and keep me making chips. At the end of three weeks I get the 10 tools fully made to our specs ready to cut. In the mean time I have been busy with other projects. So I ask how do you tie all this together as a cost to the customer and profit for your company? Please continue to post as like many I find it interesting to see other aspects of the industry from the other side of the world.

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks J W, Because I have the grinder and can do it. I do. But what you say makes perfect sense financially for someone paying employees.

[@robertdikes7722]

Nice work Peter!

[@ROBRENZ]

Nice collet nose design Peter! ATB, Robin

[@phillipmcintosh6489]

I thought I'd mistakenly clicked on one of "This old Tony"'s videos from 0:00 to 0:44. Just kidding. It was another great video and thanks for sharing your knowledge once again.

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

Gracias por compartir y dar unas explicaciones tan buenas..aprendemos mucho en tu canal..un saludo y esperando mas videos...

[@davesalzer3220]

I wondered about that chuck. Way cool

[@PeregrineBF]

That chuck is amazing!

[@jeffreylewis145]

How bad does it have to be before you go back to the customer to see if some detail is not so critical that it can't be changed a bit to make the machining easier?

[@EdgePrecision]

If I look at a job that’s totally ridiculous or impossible I refuse to do it. I would rather not do it than get into problems. If something goes wrong you may have to take some form of responsibility. It’s not worth it.

[@rickhaass1133]

thanks very educational. had no idea you had to build the holding device for that tool grinder.

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

Amazing chuck design and execution! Makes the carbide tool making look like a minor job :-)

[@Misterbigblock]

Very cool! I bet some machine shops would simply skip a part like this. May i suggest a 3D-connexion spacemouse? It's a 3D mouse that lets you zoom/pan/rotate. Takes a bit of practise at first, but once you get used to it, it's absolutely awesome. It saves a lot of clicking and gives a lot more control. I DID NOT check compatibility with your program though, since i can't see what you are using.

[@zevakikel]

Thanks for sharing this with us!!!

[@spikeypineapple552]

How did you decide how much clearance to leave between the shank and the bore? Obviously you want it as close as possible but you need some clearance there if theres a chip or something? Also, are you going to straight plunge with it or is there room in the bore to take some roughing cuts? Once again, just want to say seeing someone in your position is really inspirational to someone who's only 4 years in. Gives me something to aspire to. Gotta say I was kinda happy when you showed the part and I thought 'he needs a woodruff style cutter in there'. Cheers!

[@EdgePrecision]

I usually leave .010-.015” clearance. This leaves enough for shavings if that get between the bore and the shank. As for interpolating there just isn’t enough room. I think it will be a straight plunge cut. Maybe a little tricordal moves in the beginning might be possible.

[@Ujeb08]

that's a great design for the collet chuck! You should sell it to the machine maker.

[@blacksupra10]

that chuck is damn nice.

[@aCaptAmerica]

I hope you show the design and grinding of the cutter.

[@EdgePrecision]

I intend to.

[@mongo6043]

Another 11/10 video Sir! Your meat and potatoes narrative is so greatly appreciated. One question (NOT a criticism). order of operations. Why not grind the cutter first while u have the rigidity of a full width shank and then grind the shank last? As a greenhorn just getting into machining, does grinding not have as much deflection of the tool or workpiece like on a lathe or mill? Again, NOT a criticism. Thank you for your time, efforts and vids Peter.

[@diditwork370]

If it's going to deflect grinding how would he use it for cutting? Carbide much more rigid than steel at larger length to diameter ratios.

[@mongo6043]

@@diditwork370 : maybe deflection is wrong terminology? I'm just curious why not cut the teeth on the cutter first with a thicker shank (less vibration?) and THEN grind shank down. I at least realize your not taking a 25thou depth of cut with a grinding wheel. If Peter is grinding the shank first he obviously is not concerned in the least about deflection or vibration so my question out of curiosity is.......moot.

[@diditwork370]

@@mongo6043 If he finishes in op1 then roughs in op2 there is a risk of losing some concentricity to deformation.

[@tomb7704]

Very interesting as always. If you were going to neck down a cutter that was already made, is there a chance of it warping? (Even a little) Or are the solid carbide ones very stable with little internal stresses. Thanks Tom

[@EdgePrecision]

The ones I have done, I haven’t had any problem with warping. So I guess not. Maybe the cintering process doesn’t leave any stress.

[@chrisread3450]

Phenomenal chuck & Video Peter! Just out of curiosity, what did the grinding machine come with originally for a chuck and what prompted you to make the chuck you detailed?

[@EdgePrecision]

It had a HSK spindle mount adapter. But I wanted to run the Schaublin collets. So I made the collet chuck.

[@feelgud89]

Hey Peter, I can recommend the german company "paul horn" for those groove milling applications! They have a huge range of mills for those undercuts.

[@EdgePrecision]

Yes I checked PH horn they didn’t have what I needed. But thanks.

[@OMY005]

Go through the Iscar catalogue and have a look at the internal grove tools for lathes. Although it will only be a single cutting edge, so a bit slow it will be standard off the shelf tooling. I use them all the time for deep undercutting on the mill.

[@EdgePrecision]

The problem is the shank has to be .450 in diameter and groove out to 1.25 in diameter. Iscar doesn’t ale a lathe grooving tool that can do that. Maybe something could be modified but it would probably give a lot of chatter. It really needs to be a carbide shank. Thanks Andrew.

[@zackfreeman8025]

I think this part is the mythical turboencabulator. If you look closely you can make out a sinusoidal deplenerator.

[@captcarlos]

If you have not heard of the Turbo Encabulator you Have to look it up! What a crack..

[@stonecraft745]

Hi Peter! Great video, thank you for sharing this with us! How do you calculate these jobs? Or do you take it and and see how many hours you need?

[@EdgePrecision]

I don’t actually. Center-line does. All I do is either accept or reject the price the they want to pay. On this I did reject the first price. They were able to get more from the customer. So than I accepted the second price. We shall see if that’s enough.

[@captcarlos]

I bet Cenerline near sh#t when you said 'not at that price' and suddenly they thought they might have to make it. One hell of a complex job! Thank you for sharing with us. And, yes, that chuck is genius. Should be marketed.

[@cruch9]

What was tbe name of that catalog? Im looking for some gear tooth cutters that are like a woodruff cutter.

[@EdgePrecision]

That’s Bass Tools catalog. But I can tell you they don’t have a gear cutter like that.

[@cruch9]

@@EdgePrecision know anyone who makes one like that? Thank you for all you do to help on KZbin! Love your videos!

[@josephhardin5726]

@@cruch9 Vardex and PH horn.

[@eformance]

I think AB Tools makes t-slot cutters like this -- most of their business is customs.

[@dondurand2972]

What's the patent # on that chuck

[@IkkFedt]

Have you tried looking into pHorn tools? They make solid carbide shanks in many sizes with interchangeable tips.

[@akfarmboy49]

brass threaded rod to Lap those thread out.

[@EdgePrecision]

This is a excellent idea! Thanks next time I will use it.

[@63256325N]

Well thought out chuck. Thanks for the video.

[@spencertoolandgrind]

Great video!

[@nash0427]

A beautiful design, thanks for sharing. BTW have you looked at the sandvik catalog for a similar cutter? I've got one at work can send you the specs tomorrow. Also seco have something...

[@trainedtiger]

Try PH Horn, they make inserts for their key cutter tools in larger diameters.

[@EdgePrecision]

Yes PH horn does have a tool that with a little modification could work.

[@MuellerNick]

As always, very interesting viedeo with deep insights. Could you please tell, how much you paid for all the 10 carbide blanks?

[@EdgePrecision]

These blanks with the shanks ground to the same tolerance as a endmill blank cost me $140.00 each in a quantity of 10 pcs. They did the whole job and delivered them in 14 days. In my mind very reasonable price and delivery. The company id Centennial Carbide centennialcarbide.com/

[@micahhunter2706]

Are you posting a marathon of videos? 👍🏻

[@jonwatte4293]

Who even designs an undercut like that?!? In the engineering office: "Your part is too cheap, it costs less than $10k each!" "Oh yeah? Hold my beer!" (I mean, they already designed it in titanium, so...)

[@hlopez2003]

Ph horn makes some pretty good stuff check them out.

[@EdgePrecision]

I did.

[@douro20]

Hartmetall-Werkzeugfabrik Paul Horn GmbH makes some fantastic micro lathe tooling.

[@bcbloc02]

Why not use a boring bar with a grooving tool? You would be able to use a larger diameter and still have clearance.

[@EdgePrecision]

I’m not sure what you are saying? The radius of the undercut is .625. That makes a maximum diameter of 1.25 for the tool. Because of its location the largest shank of a spinning tool can only be .450” or it would hit the side of the bore. No matter milling tool or boring bar this cant be changed.

[@bcbloc02]

Edge Precision See that is why I asked. I didn’t realize the radius was a called out dimension. I thought it was just to provide intersection to that other passage. That makes sense now. I thought your diameter was limited by what would fit down the bore and if that was the case then I was thinking you would have more clearance to run a bigger bar with a single offset for the cut with a bar than the double offset of the milling cutter.

[@scottlundy257]

Amazing man.

[@Robbievigil]

You sir are a god.

[@punishr36]

Did you bore the collet part location diameter in the restrained condition? I'm assuming that you finished it relevant to the male taper locating diameter for the body and then split it after?

[@EdgePrecision]

I didn’t make the collets just the chuck. The collets are Schaublin collets.

[@purerhodium]

Do the people who design these parts even spend half a second thinking about how they'd be made? Sure it's a one-off part which they can certainly afford, but I do wonder how much they could be saving if every one-off part like this had _some_ consideration for design for manufacturability.

[@EdgePrecision]

It use to be a requirement here in the USA for engineering students to take machine shop courses to get a degree. This for some reason has been dropped from the curriculum.

[@1ginner1]

Peter, Did you consider fly-cutting the undercut on the part?.

[@EdgePrecision]

It would be a awfully small fly cutter.

[@TheAndy331]

Should you patent that idea ? Have you ever ??

[@flouserve]

Please can you tell me which catalog is the one shown in the video? I need some special tools that I can't find. Thank you

[@EdgePrecision]

The catalog is from Bass Tool here in Houston Texas USA. Go to basstool.com

[@Thewaldo12345]

Could you not find a chuck you liked for the grinder?

[@kmaber9698]

How long till you retire peter?

[@EdgePrecision]

Hopefully as soon as possible.

[@LPRNChannel]

I'm interested if you are going to grind the cutter to the exact diameter or undersized it and interpolate it.

[@EdgePrecision]

There is no room to interpolate it. So I guess the answer is grind it to size.

[@metalsliver4325]

How do you quote for a job like that? If you dont account for the the things what you just run into. The cost for the extra tooling and time?

[@EdgePrecision]

Once you do enough jobs like this you have the experience to know how much to allow for. I know that not to helpful but it's the only way I can put it.

[@vasyapupken]

do you really need a solid carbide cutting head on this kind of tool ? the is a lot of same cutters made of solid tool steel with brazed carbide teeth on them so you have more freedom to modify it's shank.

[@EdgePrecision]

I think I will need the rigidity of the carbide shank because of its small diameter.

[@gusmcgussy3299]

Check out Rhode Island Carbide... They are awesome tool makers... If you wanted a solid carbide no brazing just let them know..... Great prices quick turn around

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks! This I would do if I didn’t have the ability to do it myself.

[@gusmcgussy3299]

@@EdgePrecision sometimes its just cheaper to buy. Love the vids keep em coming. (Where's your apprentice) lol...

[@tedsaylor6016]

I've figured out your Customers Name ... Marquis de Sade.

[@dudleycornman1624]

Kind of like a differential winch...

[@gmk8325]

I think that your finger joints show signs of arthritis, if you are not aware of it you get it checked. I hope it's nothing.

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks G MK. My hands don't bother me at all but I cant say the same for my right hip and knees. Probably comes from my motorcycle riding/crashing days when I was younger.

[@gmk8325]

@@EdgePrecision ok, take care.

[@leichen5474]

😂😂😂😂大佬辛苦了

[@tonyhansom3160]

Why not fully machine as per drawing and then spark erode the under cut. We manufacture a large cylinder with a hole at 90 degrees to the inner bore and then steps down to a smaller diameter to the outside of the cylinder. If you don’t have a spark erode machine then sub- contract, it would be more cost effective than making special cutters and buying in, and modify equipment that you have. The cost of these blanks and time manufacturing is coming straight off your bottom line.

[@EdgePrecision]

I don’t if at all possible like to send my parts out to other shops. I have had problems in the past with them scraping something. They will give a credit for their work. But very few will reimburse you for your labor and material. No if I can do it myself I do.