Commander DeckBuilding Fallacies

[@stigmaoftherose]

I feel like some of these comments have never played commander before... like how do you claim black doesnt have lifegain when for like half of magics history a flying lifelink deathtouch vampire was considered the best black creature in multiple formats.

[@devindailey598]

the ol vampire nighthawk

[@rolindahlquist3124]

That's what I was thinking. Ummm hello? Lifelink?

[@zackfro]

Or aristocrats!

[@dee-wreck]

Whip of Erebos. Gary. Kokusho.

[@zackfro]

​@@dee-wreckkokushoooooooooo

[@ameliasmith858]

My brother in law once had a Nethroi, Apex of Death, deck. He would cast Nethroi about one in every five games we'd play. He's an oldschool magic player who would win through oldschool combos and not knowing how to deal with a batterskull. Nethroi would just sit there in the command zone and everyone at the table would just stare at it, holding up interaction for Nethroi only to lose to something else. The fact that people are so instinctually judging on a deck just by the commander shows a disregard for tuning the 99. My brother didn't need his commander, because he's too busy beating your face in with a 42/42 Knight of the reliquary. Nethroi was just the backup plan in case things went south

[@jacquesdespadas]

We need the Tuck rule back so people can learn how to build their decks right (eg like your brother in law does it).

[@angelojohnson9441]

People need to learn a good deck has a commander as a helper and/panic switch; never a lynch pin. To make it the heart of the deck is to walk into battle with a bright pulsating glow from ones chest and then to get upset when the other players repeatedly attack that point.

[@thattallnerd1283]

I wish more people in the format had the mindset of "I'm playing this game to have my deck do the cool thing I designed it to do." Too many people are focused on winning like it's the only thing that matters. If you are not having fun why are you spending time and energy on this game. The best games of commander I've played have been the one's where everyone did a thing that impacted the game and at the end we didn't care who won because we all participated in a meaningful way.

[@DoctorWhoBlue]

You should be focused on winning... By doing the thing. If the goal is to just play generically good cards, play Standard lol

[@hewhoisnamed9050]

I agree with OPs point. The goal is to win but also for everyone to have fun.

[@xaeoxic7328]

Exactly. I changed my ojer kaslem deck to be heavily upgraded. It's no longer jank and silly, but I didn't hyper competitive high power ramp it. The theme first and foremost revealing from the top of the deck and choosing from among them to gain value and not losing the value by putting them on the bottom of the library, I tried to exclude many of the into the graveyard ones. And there are a few sub themes such as creature heavy effects to be enabled by my commander free creatures. Next is */* p and t equal to lands or Forrest. It feels good, it is very easy to see when I am getting out of hand and I'm not being sneaky or a bad guy. The last I would consider a subtheme is anthem keywords and pump (indestructible, trample, stats ect) but this also functions as a condition to win with value trading people literally until they have no hp left. The deck's win conditions are across the board pumps (no craterhoof, craterhoof smells and is lame, but I have similar stuff to it so I'm not innocent) and the other is infinite mana (karametra acolyte, bighorn rancher, or another scaling mana dork tied with staff of dominance or umbral mantle. Staff let's me true win by making infinite mana and paying to draw and untap staff until I draw my library. Umbral mantle has equip 0, pay 3 untap equipped creature and it gets 2/2 until end of turn. Attached to a mana dork it goes infinite mana with infinite power toughness on everyone's turn unless they have a spell to remove it. The deck has 4 high producing mana dork options, and 2 enablers for infinite mana. The deck absolutely PUMPS through cards off the top and it very well may miss one of them. Again though, the deck doesn't exist to just win and stomp, it exists to make a board state and be fun to play with good consistency. I can make this deck easily a crazy early game value monster. I don't want that, I want to ramp ramp ramp green creature smash.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

Given a choice between the two, I think the game being fun for everyone is of course more important than winning but you can for the most part have fun AND play competitive decks. It’s really only a conflict where someone is playing a clearly disproportionate power level deck to what everyone else is playing but that is subjective. Your CEDH deck is OK as long as everyone else is playing at a similar power level. If everyone else as an example is playing upgraded pre-cons and knowing this you opt to play your meta CEDH deck and win on turn 3 because you think winning is everything, that’s just sad.

[@raymondcarter4335]

So my group played a match Saturday that was like this. We had a fynn deck put everyone to 7+ poison and get one shot by a rogue’s passage for it. We had a low power locust of all deck just doing silly 3 color synergies, I was running graveyard reanimate with stickfingers (golgari thug, e wit, skullclamp) just draw the whole deck and do a lot of discarding and then reanimate, persist, etc, and a Mycotyrant ONLY PERMANENTS deck. Except for the poison deck, we ended in a draw thanks to my sir konrad, mycotyrants dreadhound, and locusts’ boardwipe. He said it was time for dinner 😂😂😂

[@jaysuede2627]

"Monoblack doesn't gain life." -Someone "... Mean." -Exsanguinate

[@trevorp875]

Drain life.... 1998 win con I think... haha

[@qwormuli77]

Also, pretty much four out of five cards to win off of lifegain are black.

[@MetallicMutalisk]

Who the hell says that? Think about something like lifelink - only white and black get it

[@Gabahulk]

The fact that an 8/8 trample, haste isn't good enough for some people says a lot about the state of the game.

[@ryanbolson23]

“Doesn’t infinite combo and instantly win me the game? TRASH!” -players nowadays They treat magic like it should be turn 1 yugioh

[@Gabahulk]

@@ryanbolson23 That's true and creates a dangerous vicious cycle where Hasbro prints stronger cards and people gobble them up... I hope this changes soon.

[@tylerjordan7443]

It's really hard to sit down at a loss where people are not playing the best of the best. Everything is high power commander.

[@monarch6662]

@@ryanbolson23yu-gi-oh isn’t supposed to be turn 1 either

[@ryanbolson23]

@@monarch6662 right, I’m not talking about what it’s “supposed” to be. I’m talking about what it is. And I’m telling you right now that anyone who plays master duels encounters turn 2 or less wins, with even some turn 0s. The game is clearly not meant to be played in one turn. I’m talking about how it’s played now not in design. Because I’m talking about the dangers of power creep in regards to magic using yugioh as an example.

[@N4chtigall]

It reminds me of the famous: "Dies to removal" argument that so many people love to bring up. It baffles me that so many people don't understand that not everyone want to be super competetive, that not every card need to be optimal, not every commander need to be super straight forward etc.

[@tielorstanger-lopez3888]

Every permanent dies to removal. It's a pointless argument. Now, if you want to argue that some cards are more vulnerable to a wider variety of removal, sure. But that's not the "dies to removal" argument anymore.

[@archdruidman3493]

Removal isn’t super competitive tho, it’s a part of the game. It shouldn’t be villainized, it’s a major part of what makes edh games dynamic

[@kyler1045]

I have a Gollum Deck. It’s surprising effective. Once you’ve “tapped” someone, which usually happens pretty early, it’s too late. He’s so cheap as well that interaction used against him means very little.

[@jacquesdespadas]

Gollum is super spooky. I’ve got a friend who built it, and the game turns into “make Gollum cost a million mana as fast as possible”.

[@rteishe]

Someone hasn't played many sac strategies, lol. Rakdos Ayara actually slaps, whether you're sacking your own creatures (that already want to be sac'd), or your opponents creatures thatnyou threaten-effect stole (my favorite way to play this deck 😈)

[@Level_1_Frog]

I have a 'Killer Queen' Ayara deck that I absolutely love, where I play creatures that give me extra combat phases, sac them, then return them from the graveyard to get another combat phase. Either I beat down with infinite combat steps or burn them out by flinging a Combat Celebrant with a Bloodshot Colossus a billion times. She's very fun. I also just have a value suite of titans and gearhulks for etb value.

[@grantmurdock7385]

Ayara, Widow of the Realm is an absolute house in my Henzie deck. I'm sacrificing anyhow! Now I get bonus value on top of the card! And the late-game reanimator (or sometimes as a plan B if my commander gets removed enough times) is absolutely stellar.

[@dmajor9982]

She’s also amazing in my Megatron deck. To the point I’m going to turn the deck into Ayara. Sure, no white but it barely has any, and it now won’t rely on attacking with my vulnerable commander

[@hulud]

I use her in my Kenrith artifact deck. So between her and Bosh, I'm just chucking artifact creatures at people and bringing them right back. Although I like your idea with the Henzie deck, mine doesn't have the room for her lol.

[@Helios810]

I’ve a Gut & Iron Throne background Commander deck. Ayara’s a monster in it

[@thelunchlady8276]

She is great in my Sek'Kuar deck too.

[@mfitkin]

Some bad faith arguments don’t really merit a response. People just like to be contrary to feel smarter than others sometimes

[@andrewtaylor5883]

These comments sound like players who believe the cEDH perspective on cards is the objectively correct perspective which is why they might find it hard to understand building around cards. Not every card has its own legs like a Dockside, they all don't have to be objectively good. Some of my favorite cards aren't top tier cards but given the right scenario play out as one! example: White: Sudden Disappearance [Yorian for any player] Blue: Artificial Evolution [Makes any 'Choose Creature Type' effect fun] Black: Repay in Kind [Honestly decent wincon for grindy games] Red: Hazoret's Favor [When you have a theft/sacrifice plan] Green: Voracious Wurm [Being a 2 drop and also a 2/2 has upsides for budget strategies] Multi: Catch // Release [Both sides are impactful] Colorless: Urza's Sylex [When flickering it to tutor many times]

[@zoesequeira5388]

Except any cEDH player would be able to tell that some of these takes are absolute nonsense. Just looking at Shelob; Sure it would suck in cEDH, but any cEDH player will tell you that no one is willing to turn off their own deck's strategy just to hinder another player.

[@andrewtaylor5883]

Agreed. That's why I did not say it was cEDH players who holds those beliefs! I play the format and can totally see the validity in most any card given the right scenario and meta [both local and generalized].

[@bigdawg6471]

This has to be the most unhinged comment I’ve read in a while.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

You care to be more specific ? 😅

[@Luxorcist]

@@Dragon_Fyre The comment in the video saying all of these commanders are bad and unplayable.

[@Luxorcist]

@@RegimentJoker Theyre not though lol, and he gave plenty of examples as to why theyre not.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

​@RegimentJoker if you don't know how to build a deck, sure.

[@lorenzotanzi9851]

One thing. What you talk about in deckbuilding videos isn't how you HAVE to build the deck, but how you CAN build it, and this is even more evident in the "different approach for popular commanders" type of videos. You can build Ayara like a sac deck, a life gain deck, even a ramp deck to pay the transform the creature faster, this is entirely up to you, this is what makes deckbuilding fun, in my opinion. You can build the Kethek deck as a combo deck by building the combo wincon with two creatures and search for them, nobody is stopping you. Go nuts! Be creative! This is what casual edh is about imo. Not necessarily being the best, but having the best fun. (Gosh, I wrote an essay and you said no essays or I have to make a whole video about it, sorry😅)

[@otterfire4712]

Love this take. People tell me to build Rielle with a bunch of Wheels, but I'm not fond of the thought of giving my opponents free cards. Instead I run a bunch of spells where they discard for cost to create removals or self wheel. Rites of Refusal, Nahiri's Wrath, Turbulent Dreams, and Tolarian Winds all have insane value with Rielle's effect, turning what would be a steep minus in hand size into a minus one in hand to clear the board or have a makeshift Counterspell.

[@lorenzotanzi9851]

@@otterfire4712 that actually sounds pretty cool! If people expect you to build and play a deck a certain way, you can also use Surprise strategies and broaden even more the strategy!

[@otterfire4712]

@@lorenzotanzi9851 she's also a cute Cycle commander though it doesn't quite have as significant a punch, but you can have a more steady draw engine and you can run Cycling lands to ensure that you have a mana base in the early. Actually an underrated Izzet commander imo.

[@lorenzotanzi9851]

@@otterfire4712 I would also run containment construct and instants with discard costs or effects, this way you can have even more advantage (It Is probably the most obvious strategy, but It really Is cool, I'm surprised It isn't more popular since it's both a value engine and a good combat wincon in the right scenario)

[@otterfire4712]

@@lorenzotanzi9851 Containment Construct is cute, but ultimately not something I'd want unless it was to run a more Cycling focused build. It's a vulnerable target for removal and permanently loses you those cards when removed. I lean towards more Flashback and Escape cards as they can recur themselves off of being discarded and Escape can use the non-Instant/Sorcery cards to be revived. I already run a number of Instants with discard for cost so it's not too much of a worry. Only real problem she suffers from is having fewer than average bodies to use as a sacrifice against black and board wipes (though I have some counter spells for this). If she's frequently removed then you're going to fall super far behind and generally putter out compared to other decks.

[@W4llh4k]

I'm half way through the video and it feels like it's a good academic thing, but also feels like the person that wrote all of this was nitpicking to disparage you, or the cards. Not to make valid criticism, as most of the things have been easily rebutted. Your video actually inspired me to start building a kehek deck, not sure what direction to take, but I'mma gonna get there soon.

[@W4llh4k]

The dude seems to be to up the @$$, or have a limited playgroup where synergy gets looked down as "combo", happened a bit when I was starting that ppl would do that in "NO COMBO TABLES". But that mindset has worn itself out of the lgs. Getting back to the guy, he worte about everything as "goodstuff", they seem not interested in committing to the buildaround aspect, and just taking what they see at face value.

[@maxwelladam4840]

I built a Kethek deck too. Mine was secret commander Dauthi Voidwalker. Since it only cares about non legendary I play good stuff legends and stuff like relic of legends, nasty end and tevesh to get value off Kethek after you get your Dauthi out and play wheels to feed the void. Dauthi also breaks parity on lifeline which makes for a crazy value engine especially if you have a haste enabler.

[@dariocampanella7992]

Treason effects can be cool buy maybe gets boring quickly

[@AceTrace75]

I built a Kethek hidden commander when he initially mentioned it on the channel, using Dream Devourer and a whole bunch of 3 drop creatures. Creature storm never felt so good.

[@urzaz]

I suspect this person wouldn't be playing Commander if it weren't the "default" format these days. It feels to me like they would be much happier playing a more consistent, competitive format like modern or standard.

[@patrickgallogly8092]

Korvold is also in black, green and red, a color combination that might as well say "I AM REANIMATING EVERYTHING THAT JUST WAS SACRIFICED!" like dang, phyrexian and asnods alter exist in colorless, let alone all the card in black that say "as additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice a creature" and red has a few free sacrifice outlets as well. Only way to make the reanimation part better is to add white, which is currently impossible

[@Helios810]

The Ayara statement’s baffling, like, are you implying that your deck’s not going to have any other sac outlets or reanimation effects outside of your commander? If so, that ain’t the commander being shit. That’s on your deck building ability

[@nanoglitch6693]

She's also pretty functional for decks based on theft strategies. I'd generally prefer her in the 99 but she's not completely useless as a commander lmao

[@Balex115]

There are a few edge cases though like Yaheni or Prosh who can get really greedy by not running other sac outlets or token makers and the punish is basiclly exactly an imprison effect or drannith magistrate.

[@bch9124]

I really appreciate your angle regarding Commander and enjoy your reasoning. Thank you for all of your continued content!

[@ryanbolson23]

6:36 I simple 2 minute search shows there is in fact 156 cards in monoblack colors that have the keyword lifelink. A standard commander deck has about 65 cards that aren’t lands. I don’t know about you guys but that sounds like a lot of choices for a deck idea that supposably has no support

[@subpump2823]

I agree you. A good video dispelling alot of fears.

[@ComradeVenus]

The Balrog of Moria seems like one of those creatures that clearly wasn't designed to be in the command zone, but is a fun puzzle to figure out. This commander really makes me want to try building a cycling and reanimator deck around the rakdos colors, with cycling creatures into the graveyard, cycling payoffs like archfiend of ifnir, with effects lile netherborn altar so you can cycle your commander, and with reanimation spells and abandoned sarcophagus. I have no idea how strong it would be but it seems like a very fun idea

[@JacoDeltaco]

Imagine having so many new legendaries creatures that you can make a 20 under rated commender last year

[@bartoffer]

In the case of Shelob, I think there is some merit to the concern - I tried to build a Mari, the Killing Quill deck and struggled immensely against spellslinger decks. I think running cards like Nightmare Lash / Lashwrithe can be good buy-outs in those scenarios specifically for mono-black, since they offer an (effectively free) way to turn any of your creatures into a beater. I guess it also struggled against combo, but everything that isn't combo has trouble against combo since stax and control have been whined out of casual play by munchkins.

[@MrMalorian]

I built my Ayara deck as a Threaten effect deck. Steal the best thing, hit somebody, and then sac it to gain life and hit someone again.

[@ELFudgeOreos]

Nasty. I love it

[@simonchi5372]

Do you have Kinzu and Nightmare Shepherd in there?

[@raymondcarter4335]

Oh man, I’d love to see what you think of my hidden commander deck 😂 I started playing in 2011, and just moved to commander a couple years ago. I didn’t even design my own deck until I started playing commander. This channel, quarters, zone, and fish (I don’t know how you feel about referencing other channels in the comments so I an keeping them semi-vague) has taught me so many things about deck building. Appreciate the work, I especially enjoy all the card references to things I’ve just never seen in modern. Modern only sees about 7% of available cards in use, so there is a plethora of hidden gems out there I’ve been discovering for the last couple of years.

[@SWNJim]

My Licia, Sanguine Tribune deck speaks to several of these fallacies. She’s an 8 mv creature that I basically never pay more than RWB to cast. There’s even scenarios where I’m paying life instead of those colors, making her even cheaper. She can then immediately buff herself to 7/7, which gets some attention because she’s a 3 hit commander. Being able to reduce her cost, and any commander tax, back down to 3 mana means that I’ll gladly sacrifice her myself just to replay her the same turn. The deck gains an obscene amount of life and half of the deck is black. When it comes to specifically life gain sources, black is only one or two cards behind white. Gonti’s Machinations, Reckoner’s Bargain, Rite of Consumption, Spoils of Evil, hell, the og Simulacrum which was in Alpha, all gain life and are mono-black. There’s still other mono-black cards that interact with Licia specifically which my opponents’ never see coming until it’s too late. Never let anyone tell you that black can’t gain life.

[@charlesrozier3547]

Well whip of erebos gives all your creatures life gain

[@OpticF3ARNGT]

Good timing Literally looking at ayara and kethek for a threaten and sac deck!

[@cedarbobedar7223]

I have an Ayara Threaten deck and it's so good - I built mine with Obosh on companion for extra jankkness lol and it still wins games (include Kaervek he's a house)

[@kakuofwei]

I actually love playing Eloise because its a commander not many people are expecting to see. My biggest gripe in my play group is that they tell me, "you should use this person as your commander instead. I would have built it differently." Like bro.. i built it because I like it. I don't win all the time but I do win and sometimes on turn 4 or 5.

[@katekyo11]

With Ayara, focusing on the front side and artifacts leads to massive damage and artifact reanimation games. Playing a metalwork colossus for free, dealing 11 damage, gaining 11 life is awesome. But replaying it and untapping Ayara for 22 damage and life gain is amazing

[@Wojtek36762]

I’ve thought about running Ayara in my Henzie deck, have limited space for “extra value” pieces and waiting for summoning sickness is rough, but the flip option is a lot of value if I don’t run into my other graveyard recursion.

[@Wojtek36762]

I do think Arwen’s payoff is a little weak for a build around. You can get her thing every turn, get some counters, and protect another attacker, but the ceiling of that feels low. If the plan is to accumulate counters and attack or even to blink a lot, Arwen is only adding so much. I’ve had a couple decks fail because I could pull off the loop with some consistency, but it was too low impact and people just pulled ahead of me.

[@Darr3nL3wis]

Always enjoy your videos man, any cool ideas for building a vintage deck with a commander from legends up to scourge? Trying to find some fun ideas for a vintage pod😊

[@windowofpane]

Dude, one of my pet cards is acidic slime, I put it in every green deck I ever make. I had a guy say “that’s just a bad card, a 2/2 for 5 sucks regardless of what it does” it can kill an artifact, enchantment or land on etb. And is a 2/2 with deathtouch, that essentially acts a free fog because nobody wants to lose thier creature to a 2/2 deathtouch. So you can get rid of a super problematic cards including a land (cabal coffers, nykthos, etc. etc.) and stave off attacks for a couple turns, and he said “it’s bad” lol it was proabably this same guy.

[@dylanvolckaert404]

Whoever left the original comment is either really jaded, trolling or is a netdecker.

[@bryndenkinnaman895]

I bet the commenter also has an atraxa deck "that isnt like all those other atraxa decks" then the decklist looks like the edh rec page

[@alexabney7913]

I have a lot of fun watching ppl talk about wanting to target my Sauron the dark lord and then lamenting that the ward cost is too high. It makes me laugh every time

[@Squigsaplenty]

"There is no support for mono-black lifegain" made me make the ugliest laugh I have made in my life holy shit

[@PerpetuallyTiredMillennial]

In my Etrata deck, it's dependent on everyone playing creatures and it is reasonable for them to stop playing creatures if they're at 2 hit counters with no removal. For that, I have vorpal sword, Ramses (to make another opponent lose and me win), and the over abundance of tutors in the deck already. I do think it is important to have one or two things in the deck you can tutor for in case they take a very unlikely route that counters your deck.

[@Asmith218]

I liked your underrated commanders for the most part and had built the ayara. I don't like the balrog much but to each their own. my underrated commanders of 2023 by set are Ovika, heliod/quintoius, Samut, sewer king, and akawali.

[@grillburgerdaq5121]

Every reason they gave to not play a commander is the exact reason why you should. It’s like a puzzle to solve. And if you solve the puzzle, now you have this special, unique deck. For me, that’s the best part about commander.

[@lancenuttman]

This video should be titled "Streamer calls out your bullshit comments". Great video. :)

[@Eljeffethebestaye]

Everyone just wants their commander to be there win con. And sometimes it’s great, I have a willhelt deck. I feel that power. But the fun is deck building, edh is about digging through your buck from years ago and being like “oh dang this jank might work in this new deck I’m making from a commander that just came out.” It’s ok to be Timmy sometimes edh was about that in the first place. Have fun, go play constructed or play cedh if you just want to win if that is what makes it fun to you. Respect to either one because either way the community grows.

[@taninrobertson2262]

Kinda want to build a Balrog deck now

[@justinmorsch3208]

I feel like a lot of these comments come from players who have never deck built for commanders outside of the top 100 on EDHrec. Building “objectively weaker” commanders requires creativity and critical thinking that a lot of these comments seem to lack. Their deck building skills aren’t as good because they never really had to work all that hard to make a good commander deck: yuriko builds herself, isshin builds himself, etc. This is pretty assuming on my part, but a lot of my commander knowledge has come from tweaking and tuning my scorpion god deck (an objectively weaker commander) and thus learning how to create synergies in unique ways. Great video, keep up the great work!

[@scaredycat3146]

That honestly felt exactly like an entire video just dunking on one specific comment. Oh well sometimes everybody needs to vent I guess.

[@Redalert8901]

Did you watch the video? He went over like 8 different comments and responded to them in a way that provides some pretty educational value about deckbuilding in edh while specifically focusing on each commanders strategy.

[@scaredycat3146]

@@Redalert8901 sounds like you didn't watch the video, because it was in fact all a single comment/wall of text. It's still visible under the mentioned video btw. By urbzninja two weeks ago.

[@Redalert8901]

Ah I see now, my misunderstanding.​ I still feel like it didn't seem too much like just venting but I understand your take better

[@ryanbolson23]

But like, that one comment was attempting to dunk on the entire video card by card. I’m just saying, the other guy definitely started it and definitely had less substantiated claims in the end 🤷‍♂️

[@PhoenicopterusR]

It's kinda well deserved all things considered. Don't have bad opinions about cards that are formed exclusively by evaluating them in a vacuum.

[@TheHive616]

So this dude literally just looked at these commanders in the worst possible light, and completely ignored the 99 cards you're meant to supplement those abilities with.... And he acted like he was dunking on you with all this clever rhetoric. That's just fundamentally misunderstanding the point of an entire format for the sake of feeling like you know more than someone else.

[@STS-qi1qy]

'Without the other cards it only does the thing once' - Welcome to probably the majority of commanders.... What a weird take.

[@whitewylf]

My Ayara, Widow of the realm deck isn't even built around her flip side. It's built around her tap ability and Obosh the Preypiercer as the Companion.

[@mathbro9457]

Similarly to what could be a Kethek deck I have a old stickfinger deck with only 5-6 really big creatures and reanimation spells. I only need my commander once.

[@grizzlyreaper7477]

This is hilarious! I've literally been asked to "Not play Gollum, that's not the kind of game we're looking for tonight." Commander is LITERALLY the format where underwhelming jank gets to shine. I have several decks that are considered "bad" that my playgroup fears: Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar Vogar, Necropolis Tyrant Djeru, Eyes wide open Maraxus of Keld And now, apparently, Gollum? OMG! Just got to Kethek. What is this guy smoking? My friend literally copied my list because he was so impressed with it, and it's a ~$50 budget deck!😂

[@guyatanosavia8487]

"Hey wow, this commander sucks if you don't build a deck to support it!" -All of these comments, basically.

[@joshberg7944]

This is deck building 101. However, I remember when I first started playing commander just back in 2021 I too looked at so many commanders and was like "Why would anybody play this card?" And still I find myself thinking like that occasionally. I have a blue white blink deck and still if I would have read Arwen on my own I would have been like this sucks you can only use it once. Haha!

[@Merlewhitefire]

"What possible use is an 8/8 trample haste commander that punishes your opponent for killing it, all for 7 mana?" It's like they just forgot combat exists.

[@Merlewhitefire]

OH WHOOPS that's what I get for pausing, he just said almost exactly the same thing.

[@traptbysociety]

Off topic, I know, but I would love to know what the art on Demo's left (screen right) is. AHERO...? Been thinking it for a good few videos now.

[@soccerfanatic27]

If i have march of the machines in play can my equipments be equipped to my creatures? Do they fall if they were attached to one

[@williamjoback1436]

great video

[@likealaddertothesun]

Confusing and maybe a bit concerning that some players are being so narrow minded about deckbuilding and commander utility in a game like Magic of all things that I thought encouraged experimentation and finding synergies. I'm building that "Red Ayara" deck and even just a quick bit of research would point out that creature stealing, and cheating big creatures into play with strats such as renanimation and Sneak Attack are great go to moves. Even without those approaches built in, I have a hard time considering her ability to do direct commander damage and life gain as a waste of a turn when it's perhaps the most direct win condition possible.

[@jackpalmer5067]

Wow a lot of great ideas. I have Meren of clan nel toth with a low win rate. I try to keep it updated with edh rec. Having synergy issue I think.

[@kurtw6922]

If I could sum up this video's advice to players who take issue with these commanders it would be this: you go 'out of your way' during deckbuilding so that you don't feel like you're going 'out of your way' during gameplay. I think you're arguing with people who have never tried to construct a deck from square 1 before xD p.s. I'm sure you get asked regularly, but do you have a favorite Parkway Drive album?

[@HanDaimond]

The point of the commander format is to show other players what your deck is about and how it works, even if running an underappreciated commander card.

[@jefftaylor8077]

It will never cease to amaze me that, in a game with nearly infinite possibilities, a huge amount of people are unbelievably narrow minded and incapable of thinking outside the box. I can't imagine what playing against the people who left these comments is like. Lol.

[@JacoDeltaco]

Wow people hate fun. The idea that you should not play a 'bad' commander is insane too me those are the people who 'ruin' commander for me. I am one of those players that loves cards that nobody plays but work in a really niche deck. Edit: that the reason I like your video I learn about cards I never saw

[@RoachDoggggJR]

Another point on Ayara, if you have a phyrexian reclamation you could play that & use its ability with the 4 mana generated from ayara, putting the solemn simulacrum back into your hand. Whoever wrote that comment has never played aristocrats

[@jwall1646]

It’s insane that somebody could claim that any of these cards are “unplayable”

[@mave6602]

I wonder if the Kethek critizism of that person was based in the "thing" being always the same in every match. Like the player always gets the same card like me always trying to hit Hypergenesis through Yidris by building it in a way that most 2 drops will hit it. Personally I see that in case of "hidden commander" but also a thing easily fixed if there are multiple cards with similar effects. Like Reanimator creatures as non legendaries.

[@Thessik73]

This was my take, too. More a complaint against combo decks than anything else.

[@JacoDeltaco]

Saying Korval is bad because you need cards in your graveyard is wild to me it like saying Murktide DRC and co. Are bad lmao

[@Thessik73]

Tarmogoyf was notoriously bad for years, right? That's why it took multiple reprintings to get the price down to a reasonable number.

[@granite_4576]

20 mins of based Demo dunking on someone who's likely never gone further than the edhrec page.

[@Saltpounder513]

For Balrog, why not just play Mirror Gallery and Blade of Selves? Play a couple of tutors, put those cards onto the battlefield, cast the commander, equip the blade, and bam, you've got two copies of an 8/8 trampler that you can sacrifice to any number of effects before the end of combat that will then get you those exile triggers.

[@somejerk5662]

Really, Mirror gallery is just a bonus. Even if they immediately die to the legend rule, they still take a bunch of stuff down with them.

[@ryanmanning2319]

@@somejerk5662 Unfortunately, the card says "you may exile it. When you do..." which means that if a token dies, you will never have the chance to exile it, so you wouldn't get to go on a murdering spree.

[@samuraicupcake289]

I love how you say "Shelobe" 😂

[@jmanwild87]

About the first fallacy the only time i've seen people not do x to give value is when they don't get value off the thing they're doing like playing creatures into a nemata primeval warden with a sac outlet and a grave pact up

[@davidpeters1613]

In kethek you could tool box and just use instant/sorcery spells to create tokens then sac the tokens to get very specific use non legendary. then build w/e auxillary legendary creatures you want in

[@dapperghastmeowregard]

Lol on Korvold. Obviously a bit Magical Christmasland, but T1 Goldhound, T2 Vessel of Volatility, T3 Crystal Vein, Korvold, draw 4 cards :P

[@Zaelkrie]

Why would you build a deck around a Commander in a format called Commander? That's crazy talk! Jokes aside a lot of people are hesitant to do things like pay life or exile a card you own in commander both of which are themes I built decks around, the most popular/common decks are generic good stuff decks that give you reasonable value for little to no downside but I find it's more fun to take a big risk for a massive reward than everyone just sitting around gaining value slowly until they hit their wincon/combo.

[@whilelmschuyler2043]

I've built Ayara rakdos around here phyrexian face. Many players say to me : she is a bad commander because she need 1BB + 5RP to transform, so, 6BBR or 2 lifes, that"s a lot. But, in a artefact shell, with numerous protective artefact and great creature to reanimate when she attack, like, thoses multi-attack phases creatures, and, in the early, the sac' face can finish a game just by itself like any other throw effects.

[@barongeoffrey75]

I suppose you play Conjurator's closet ?

[@Shimatzu95]

I kinda gave to agree with on the saint traft & rem karlos comment. I have played agaist this commander a couple of times before and it struggels to get even his 2nd trigger sometimes. Not sure if i have even seen him make angels before. In summary nice idea, kinda unsupported card currently.

[@cjn0423]

"If I have to think to make a commander more valuable it's trash tier."

[@Theanthill216]

This person who commented all this must be either: 1.) a net decker who only plays top 25 commanders and cannot deck build at all or 2.) someone who cannot play casually and thinks any card not cedh viable is bad; refuses to not use inherently broken commanders

[@ethanotemo]

YEAH!!!!!!! DEMO DUNKS!!!!!!

[@nanoglitch6693]

My favorite comments are when you make a video that certain cards shouldn't be considered universal auto-includes because they've been pushed to more niche status by stronger options existing. Half the comments will be people counter-arguing like "nuh-uh! (insert card) is great in my *ONE DECK* that's specifically built to exploit it so you're wrong if you don't think it's it's just as good everywhere else!" Like bruh...

[@MateusGomes-rp4mn]

Ayara deck

[@Grimkahn1901]

Looking at the comments youre reading in this video, its obvious theyre more concerned about winning than just having fun. And thats very sad.

[@dyne313]

Do these people just think every commander deck is just a pile of good stuff?

[@whitesmith5985]

I sorta agree that some of these commanders aren't super powerful, or don't have enough of a payoff. So personally I wouldn't be too interested. Most of them though have potential, and I think would be cool to see at a commander table. But no way he said the new korvold is bad 😅 That would be one of my picks for your last video, super strong and doesn't fully rely on your commander. So much value, while being fun and open to build around.

[@gregory3499]

For the gollum comment he is reading it wrong. it says "there are cards supporting this thing"

[@micahhonig1575]

I would consider green the second best color at gaining life. Black would be a close third imo

[@ivernedit]

Some of these comments are such hear scratchers. They wanna argue to argue

[@IzzetTempo]

if you play with hot takes, don't be shocked when you get burned

[@TheUltimateRey]

I think that dude was having too much zaza or something that day lol

[@OniTreefolk]

I'm not a fan of the mindset of "I gotta win as fast as possible'". I play this game to relax and enjoy it, not race to a win.

[@kartenspieler0863]

I have a 0 creature deck, except for the commander. Izzet Spells. Yes, it‘s bad, but I like it

[@Dragon_Fyre]

I feel like context is missing for much of this… Just as an example, for Shelob the comment/criticism was relating to how a Shelob deck is only effective if your opponents are playing creature heavy decks and can otherwise be ineffective. The counter argument out of context makes sense, that cards like Trouble in Pairs, Smothering Tithe or Rhystic Study have a benefit regardless of how your opponent plays ie. You get something or they have to impede their play so that you don’t… it is win-win. This argument only applies if your opponent is building a deck to play versus your Shelob deck and excluding creatures during design that they would otherwise benefit from including or they have creatures in the deck and are not playing them during a game because of your Shelob commander. If your opponent is just playing a Spellslinger type deck with few creatures by design (that being optimal play for the deck)… that does not benefit you in any way when playing a Shelob deck, so it is a poor comparison.

[@Redalert8901]

I mean I don't think they need to be playing a heavily creature based strategy, your average deck will have enough creatures to facilate your strategy and even if spell slinger is at the table, it's a multiplayer format and it's extremely unlikely that all three opponents are going to have barely any creatures in their decks for you to make use of

[@Dragon_Fyre]

@@Redalert8901 It has more to do with what abilities are on the creatures. Quality over quantity.

[@Vinicius-Bigode]

Balrog does "nothing"?! My boy, have you ever played against a Zurgo? The moment a commander like that hits the field you are 1 equipment away from being one or two shotted. A combat trick also works.

[@ZinrickG]

At the end people that makes this comments should comprehend that there are better and worst commanders, and we all know that... but the fun on it is to build a deck around the commander because you like his/her whatever... Name, art, effect, colors, creature type, powerlevel.. etc not because it is the best, or if there is one that does a "similar" thing in a better way. But it is true that there are so much difference between commander effects that sometimes having a bad commander doesn't feel good and did invest a lot of $$ building a mediocre deck where with half of the money you can have a more efficient deck, with more interaction between your cards and commander (which leads to more fun).. etc. So I guess there is a point as well on questioning whether if these commanders are "worth" the effort and money investment to make them work.

[@ChrisMortJr.]

This dude knows there's 99 other cards in these decks right?

[@PaulSzkibik]

yes, 99 basics lands.

[@GrayVMhan]

Also maybe not playing the most optimized commander for your strategy of choice is an okay thing to do since we're all just tryna have fun

[@Xylol1337]

for the saint traft and rem karolus comment: sure if you only built him around the convoke ruling hes weak as fuck. like he said 2 spells for 1 1/1 spirit and a 4/4 angel sux. but thats the reason you built him with lots of free tap outlets and untap stuff with the addition of convoke. i love this commander. makes pretty cool gameplay

[@InsomniaticVampire]

I don't understand the criticism. "The commander does the thing once" Most of my decks are built so my commander only needs do to it once. I theory craft more than i play so I can usually find a way to make most legendary creatures into decent commanders. What is a "good" commander in this person's opinion?

[@h2muller]

As someone who played the format before it was called commander, and have been playing magic for 20+ years, I find it very amusing how spoiled some of the new players are… legendary creatures used to be overcosted, have huge drawbacks (some were even overcosted vanilla) and people are complaining that the cards aren’t absolutely broken out of the box and you have to build around something??

[@austinblankenship7631]

Dont stress out too much about silly comments. The size of your channel, the more youre going to get

[@Sneaky_Pinky]

Bro that Ayara take is so bad. Even if you were building to use your creatures and artifacts and *not* sac them, she still remains an option for when your things are targeted. Someone wants to chaos warp one of your board pieces, you say F U and fling it at them. I built Ayara once and had a blast. She's a lot of fun.

[@Swellchild]

Luck is always a factor, regardless of how well you built your deck. You could have 20 sac effects that trigger your Korvold, but you still have to draw into them. Obviously building the deck well helps heighten your chances, but luck can still decide you get no lands this game.