Red Herring Synergies | Commander | Magic: the Gathering

[@288kris]

“Why protect them?..Just make more”- Krenko, Mob Boss

[@nadavelsberg684]

As a krenko player I approve

[@MrSzymonpik]

Yeaaah Boss! 😊 What is this catapult Boss? Uuuu... Aaaaa! 😮

[@brendans1983]

Commander: Rendmaw. Game plan: Make Birds. Pitch: I make birds. Kakaw.

[@johnlachman5121]

The Rendmaw birds can get out of hand so quickly

[@wesleyshaw88]

.... BIRD UP

[@catanthill]

This is such a good video for every commander that uses finality counters. I had the exact same thoughts with Mirko, Obsessive Theorist, which is very similar to Winter.

[@paulkish-greer9545]

So true. You're better off adding counter spells to protect your beefy reanimation targets. Some amount of this effect is still good, though. Mirko benefits from those cards that turn finality counters into +1/+1 counters and Soul Diviner has a special place I'm my heart

[@erichoffman1664]

The finality counter is exciting because it keeps the player from falling back on repeated game actions with the same targets (while still being a strong effect), adding depth to game play

[@robertprueter3292]

Convergent evolution is a hell of a thing. Awhile back I too concluded that "describe the deck in one sentence" is a good deck building strategy. Especially for me since I'm vulnerable to these types of red herrings. Some of my elevator pitches for decks Dina, Doul Steeper "my gain is your pain" Gisa, the Hellraiser "be gay, do crimes" Doran, Siege Tower "the trees go to war" Omnath, Locus of Rage "landfall go brrr" Imotekh, the Stormlord "you can't keep a good Necron down" Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs "I'm king (monarch) of the hill"

[@lightfut]

Archidekt's categories helps a lot with this. You can see both what you're trying to do and how hard you're trying to do it so you can evaluate things better

[@EDHRECast]

Heck yeah, love this! Archidekt categories are one of our favorites ways to sort decklists

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Joey built a graveyard deck who would’ve seen that coming 😂

[@jacquesdespadas]

This is a great reminder for all of us to K.I.S.S. Anikthea had the same issue, and yet I’ve found that living with it instead of fighting it makes the deck better. In Winter’s case, I think you could get away with original Melira and maybe one other “creatures can’t have counters” card, which would have the added bonus of nerfing +1/+1 counters decks. YMMV.

[@AxillaryPower2]

What's K.I.S.S., and what were you doing with Anikthea?

[@jacquesdespadas]

@ Keep it simple. The second “s” is an old Army term of endearment.

[@warrioraidan]

I started down that path originally with Winter. I stopped adding them and kept Nesting Grounds as the only way I have to interact as a cute way to hit an opponent's creature.

[@1notdeadfred]

As far as removing counters, I would only bother running 2 things: Nesting Grounds because you can put the counters on someone else's stuff, and Aether Snap because it's a niche sweeper that tackles one of the weaknesses I see a lot with reanimator decks- struggling to deal with go-wide strategies. Are there better picks for that sweeper spot? Almost undoubtedly! Despite that, it still significantly alters the boardstate. Many decks these days favor +1/+1 counters over "end of turn" pumps outside of win conditions. The incidental value is nothing to scoff at.

[@escadora2206]

bruh its insane how true everything in this video is. I probably would pick him up much sooner if he would be a demon or smth but after picking him up i gotta say: This guy is absolute madness. I love this commander so much. Can't wait to make a proxy tho where he looks cooler ngl xD

[@nharviala]

This video reminds me of how I came to the conclusion of my favorite deck. Mono black Chainer was constantly mana starved, always needing more black mana, and I was hitting a limit with things like Nirkana and Crypt Ghast. Then I realized the potential by putting Soldevi Adnate into the deck, and thus put in every effect that kills creatures for mana. And since I milled like mad, I could easily slot in most of the Bloodghast cards, cheap things to throw into mana that I could keep using. Now, the deck is fairly high tuned, it knows what it wants to do and does it well, but still takes a bit since my only tutor effect is Diabolic, leaning into the sac theme, it still gives other decks the chance to play. Overall, a fun game plan!

[@perpetualelysium]

I'm building monoblack Chainer too and I'm taking notes!

[@Azeria]

I originally put quite a number of creatures that trigger when I cast Instants and Sorceries in my Bria/Prowess deck. You know what that does? it makes tracking the triggers 10x harder. Prowess triggers on an artifact spell but then that doesn’t, but it also has Prowess from Bria, and then there’s four Stormsplitters which have seen three different numbers of noncreature spells, oh and then this thing cares about storm count… it’s a nightmare. If a program was keeping track, sure, but in paper it’s not a fun experience for me or the rest of the pod. I took as many of those out as I could and guess what? it still works just fine, and is way easier to play.

[@rajchua1342]

I'd love to see your decklist!

[@Azeria]

@@rajchua1342 guessing if I link the comment will be filtered so it’s on my Archidekt, username’s Azeria, it’s called ‘Otters & Opportunities’. It still needs a bit more playtesting before I’m totally happy with it and it is aimed at mid-power, it plays well with modern pre-cons, especially slightly upgraded ones.

[@Will_Morand]

My Thalisse elevator pitch: “Make tokens, turn them sideways.”

[@oxybe]

Plebian: Winter has a drawback, the finality counter! Nesting Grounds: Winter has an upside, a finality counter to give to your opponent's value piece before you banish it to the shadow realm! I will admit, I ran into the same Red Herring with Winter like you did. I did wind up keeping Nesting Grounds and Power Conduit in my 99 though. NG is the better of the 2, but can really only be used on your turn, whereas PC can be used at any time once it's out as it's not affected by summoning sickness. In the end I wound up with what I call Golgari Goodstuffs: I can go wide with various token creators that are also viable threats (Rampaging Baloth, Grave Titan) or double as self mill (crawling sensation, crawling infestation), as well as stuff to make my guys bigger and trample like Overrun, Overwhelming Stampede, Demolisher Spawn, etc... But also generally scary threats like Sheoldred Whispering One and Quilled Greatwurm. Toss in a healthy amount of the good old three R's of green-black: reanimation, removal and recursion and you've got a solid decklist. It might not be CEDH, but it's plenty powerful.

[@olivierdebilde4292]

Fantastic point. Most of my decks are unfocused because I WANT a little bit of everything. In Winter : flashback, encore, unearth,... But it doesn't work out. Mimeoplasm is such a headache to build as well. Heartless act is cool in Winter though. And colossification was my jankiest pet card 😅

[@edhtypecast339]

Joey, you look a Swol as JLK in this cover photo. Well done

[@Firedemon0]

Yeah synergies are great, and then you get too far gone and your deck's game plan is weakened by too much fluff and not having a solid base. I had similar issues with making my energy deck after Modern horizons 3. Using cards to attempt to max out my energy generation, some of which were really weak on their own and horrible top decks. This led to having too few payoffs for all that energy becoming a very painful lesson.

[@zandaman802]

Literally the same issue. Was building an energy deck with the precon commander and switched it to a more etb and energy focus with aggro being the main focus, then shifting to burn to finish the game out.

[@Rascus75]

Great video! I wish I'd had this advice years ago, when I was building my worst deck ever and it relied on red herring synergies like this. Definitely gonna keep this on hand when I'm giving advice to new players.

[@Longshanks126]

I can back up that Flubs experience, my first draft had a bunch of madness cards but they very quickly ended up on the cutting room floor. I ended up focusing more on casting from anywhere but my hand. Plot, foretell, and "Future Sight" effects worked much better.

[@VincentWolfeye]

One of my favourites: Wernog and Cecily try to uncover the mystery that unfolds in Innistrad

[@ClexYoshi]

Funnily enough, i'm in a somewhat similar spot with Zoraline, Cosmos Caller and counter removers in that deck. a lot of that deck is held together by synergy and engine pieces that care about gaining and losing life, and So things like Thrull Parasite and Hex parasite end up having that extra benefit of being able to cause life gain or life loss triggers in addition to their synergies. reanimation also just being a kicker cost on Zoraline means that fthere is less barrier to entry to get the value. also, because I'm getting lower mana value stuff (lunar convocation, soul sisters, doofy bat clerics), I feel that the repeated reanimation is a far more impactful.

[@mark.nunnikhoven]

Fantastic insights as always. It’s too easy to start going down those interesting paths and create a mess of spaghetti in your deck!

[@Gimpocalypse]

I had a very similar sort of journey with my relatively new Shilgengar list. In fact, I also initially overdid it with the counter removal synergies. The current version has a small package, but the cards included do other things that serve more important purposes. The other, and I dare say more impactful, red herring of the list though was that I started off with *WAY* too many angels in the deck. Turns out I'm also not alone in this. EDHREC for Shilgengar is more or less angel kindred. But it turns out, the deck played in a way that: 1) It is pretty simple to get to the 6 blood tokens you need, and you really don't need much more than that. Certainly you don't need as many as you have with a whole deck of angels. 2) You kind of only need to do "The Thing" with Shilgengar once, maybe twice, in any given game. It is an explosive effect, and you will get a massive clump of ETB effects that can sometimes win you the game outright, or provide such a huge momentum swing to put you well on your way. And so....When doing "The Thing", you get significantly more of an impact from *Vampire* typal interactions than you do with anything else. When I converted the deck to be much more vampire focused (with a smattering of angels that just happened to work well in the deck), I noticed I didn't even care about the finality counters because I was bringing back SO MUCH and it has such a huge immediate impact on the game.

[@wooly8151]

I'd recommend slippery bogbonder and put all the finality counters on one thing you dont mind losing.

[@CaptainTempest1]

I appreciate this video a lot! Our brief exchange on bluesky really helped me start to put things in perspective, and I think keeping things simple and straightforward is the best way to proceed with Winter upgrades.

[@guilhermebaeta2071]

When I made my first deck with Jori En as a commander it was a (mediocre) spellslinger list. I felt like I was way too open for attacks because of the low creature count. Now I run token makers and complement cantrips with cheap interaction since Jori En replaces the interactions that don't draw cards, so the deck has a super fluid "cantrip, draw, interaction, draw for Jori En" wich allows me to fly under the radar and play a tempo spellslinger with multiple ways to finish the game

[@Millus1987]

I learned something similar with Admiral Brass, Unsinkable. People tend to reccomend a bunch of those type of effects to get rid of the finality counter. I tried some, but they have one main problem: those cards aren't pirates in my pirates deck. So I just run Nesting Grounds, and nothing more.

[@jaredjeynes4530]

I agree fully with your idea that chasing Zaffai’s 10 mana slot is unnecessary and a red herring. However, it’s very fun to build a deck based around that and try to get those big mana spells going. It’s so fun!

[@nicograsso3907]

I think I want to defend some of these red hearing strategies. With winter as an example you can still run counter removal but I think it requires a bit more build around than just adding the counter removal. On top of the counter removal you would need to run permanents that want there counters removed, that way your cards that just remove counters has utility beyond just removing the finality counters. This can make a deck feel three dimensional and really give the deck an identity that's unique to your deck

[@quayo90]

I have a Rona, Herald of Invasion deck. She’s Dimir and taps to loot. I have her as very direct reanimation deck, but so many people keep trying to recommend legendaries to play to take advantage of her untap or pingers to use her flip side. Don’t get me wrong, I have spells that will trigger those effect, but they’re also great cards with my main strategy.

[@EDHRECast]

Another good example!

[@Aerix]

I learned a similar lesson while I was building my retired Tom Bombadil deck. Because sagas have a lot of ways to interacting with them and its 5 colors allow the complete commander card pool. You can add counters with effects like proliferate, reset them with blink, subtract the counters, run historic-matters cards, run enchantress cards, animate the enchantments, etc etc ad nauseum. There were too many options to include and have a critical mass of sagas.

[@chasm9557]

Gotta be honest, when Joey was talking about removing finality counters, I thought of Thief of Blood. Realistically it would only be good if the board if full of your reanimated creatures so I doubt it's a reasonable card to put in the deck, but it's still fun to think about.

[@mathewmccabe5024]

I love this video, especially with Zaffai, which is my main deck. It is alot to consider in how im building it up. I currently did move away from the 5 chase in favor of the 10 chase. But im going to look at how it plays going forward with this in mind! Thanks for the video!

[@1notdeadfred]

Talking about the elevator pitch concept reminded me of something I've had to discover the hard way. It is possible to split focus on 2 themes in a deck. The drawback is that you usually can't justify running cards that heavily rely on either theme- you just don't have the support for it. You might end up having to focus on value pieces in each theme and often need very specific effects for your win conditions. For reference, the deck I'm thinking of regarding this lesson is my Marath, Will of the Wild modified creature deck. The goal was to not prioritize counters, auras, or equipment over any of the others, and it's a near impossibility. In its current state, the deck has a lot of cards that overlap those themes, like Tarian's Soulcleaver, Kellen Fae-Blooded, and Ordeal of Nylea.

[@braddtheodd3390]

I adore Winter as a commander. The art is amazing, and the effect is never what people expect it to be.

[@sakuralily5907]

I got the precon cheap and ive been tinkering with Winter a lot! Haven't had a chance to play it yet thought. For finality characters i just have Nesting Grounds, i like that its a land and Winter can pull it out from the yard.

[@robbiegranatir6467]

This is my favorite precon. So much fun to play

[@Fabiundso]

My mono red Karlach Deck was about extra combats, but after many games and many changes to the deck list now the pitch would be "It's a combat focused storm deck, without storm payoffs." Its a good example for trying to focus on one theme while there are more effective ones right there.

[@KeroTheInvincible]

Especially ironic, seeing as Joey disassembled Meren because he found himself reanimating the same cards over and over. Much like mill and life-loss, finality counters could be a helpful reminder that the cards in your deck aren't babies that need to be protected at all costs. If something winds up getting exiled, just move on to the next thing.

[@azazelmorningstar5631]

Yeah I have Tarrien's journal on my Imotekh deck and always refused to transform it because of the finality counter, however during a game I desperately needed reanimation so I finalky did it, turns out getting your card exiled doesn't matter if you win or at least save yourself from dying

[@chaoticmidnight1783]

"Pump then cast big X-spells" For Vadrik, Astral Archmage

[@Kyronex0]

Pitches for my decks: Kruphix: Slam down Eldrazi Valgavoth: Punish people for existing and execute them with the commander Skullbriar: Rougelike Voltron Brudiclad: Make a million useless tokens and then turn them all into a scary token and win Jenson/Jegantha: Pretty colors, many angels

[@kholdseid6614]

When I originally built Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin, I wanted to put in goblin synergies. But the actual elevator pitch is "Get Krenko on the field and attacking as quickly as possible while pumping his power."

[@TheRedKnightOfPain]

When ive chased a red herring in my decks i pull those whole plans out, of they're 10+ cards, and use that as a core to.a new deck, examples, my chorus of the conclave +1/+1 counter deck had a wurm sub theme thats now a seperate deck, my Queen matchessa used to be tomens, aritocrats, life gain, the life gain got pulled to make my ayli eternal pilgram deck, my adaliez wizard/storm deck is going to become 3 decks, all with adelize at the head, with a wizard typal, storm, and a spell slinger pinger deck. My fav elevator pitch for a deck is my Greta, Sweettooth Scourge food-clues-treasures deck "so, its the deck that gaslights you into having a good time" because you Always have something you can do, may not be powetful but you constantly are doing something

[@andrewpeli9019]

I run Winter in my The Master, Transcendent deck and it’s easily the most powerful card for the deck for the year. Reanimating an Intruder Alarm and then reanimating every creature that was milled that turn and every creature that gets milled there after is pretty good.

[@nealallen2061]

The 9 Nazgûl in the Lord of the Nazgûl deck. I know it's right there in the name but if all you need to do is 1. Cast LordoNaz and 2. Play 8 Ins&Sors then your synergy list becomes cantrips and counterspells.

[@shadowmyst9661]

Too many people really do dismiss powerful Reanimator cards because they involve Finality Counters just because they’ve already been spoiled by Reanimators that can loop Graveyards indefinitely/infinitely without Finality Counters. I see Finality Counters as an evil opportunity to add a Nesting Grounds to the deck so I can move Finality Counters off of my stuff and onto an opponent’s card that I plan on killing.

[@JuQmadrid]

I built a Dogmeat deck and it was really difficult because there wasn't a clear path on how to build it. I was considering several strategies until I decided to make it a graveyard that capitalizes on ETB triggers. It is not a powerful deck by any means, but I managed to make it play smoothly. And contrary to most of my decks it is not commander centric, Dogmeats produces me a graveyard early but after that I'll probably leave him chilling in the graveyard when he attracts a removal.

[@monomanamaniac]

The example I will submit to you is in my Galea Kindler of Hope deck. It's been suggested that I run the card soothsaying because I care so much about manipulating the top of my library. The problem is that you already get to look at the top card, so you have to pay 2 or more to get any effect.

[@hugmonger]

Winter sounds like a fun commander and a fun addition for Baba Lysaga... The idea of brewing up cards live is so funny

[@RoachDoggggJR]

I ran into something similar making a Zada, Hedron Grinder deck. I was concerned about the lack of good spot removal in mono red, & I felt like a genius running effects like liquimetal coating to turn everything into artifacts I could blow up. I still run a couple, but too many wound up just slowing down the deck's goal of making goblins & drawing cards.

[@Mattismen]

I know that apprehension you had towards Winter, but Tormod and Kodama made me embrace graveyard self-hate a good while ago. Though in my case the means and ends are backwards, with reanimation being mostly incidental. Also, while I certainly could let Zaffai conjure an army of elementals, that's not nearly as fun as watching my opponents play russian roulette after I give him infect.

[@ummtone]

Angel of Suffering is so much fun to play in Winter to fill the grave! My main strategy with Winter is to fill the grave and do a mass recursion with a Gary entering. So satisfy!

[@RhonwenBear]

I also cut the death tyrant from my Wilhelt deck and replaced it with more aristocrats support. The elevator pitch for that deck would be, "but what if it's zombies... And aristocrats?"

[@TyrWolf88]

Thankfully, Winter is flexible enough that you can build more counters synergy into the deck, if that's what you want to do. Pulling a cool Saga out of your yard can give you something great to do with Power Conduit, but you do need to build more of the deck that way

[@narvuntien]

I had this problem with Zirilan of the claw, so much was devoted to keeping my dragons to hang around but I don't need that. I just need some dragons with powerful ETB and its only going to take a couple of dragons to win the game so I don't have to use thier abilities over and over. I shifted over to making the most of the one activation of my commander rather than amassing dragons, ability doubling, clones and uptapping him. He is 5 mana with a 3 mana activation he wont get more than one chance to shine. Although I still have some cards like Conjurer's Closet, Tel jed Stylus and some utility lands (high market, endless sands) that will prevent my dragons getting exiled.

[@xxhellspawnedxx]

I think my Extus deck is my red herring, or rather my white whale. I try to run the front side of him while aiming to accrue enough tokens to use the back side as a finisher, and it's damn tricky, since you need virtually equal amounts of instants and sorceries and creatures, and need them to come up in roughly equal amounts as you draw (or just draw enough cards that it's inevitable that you have at least one of both. If I were to rebuild it, its elevator pitch would simply be:" Make lots of tokens, then cast Awaken the Blood Avatar a bunch of times". Minimal fucking about with the front side of the card and trying to be a value reanimator deck at the same time as trying to be an aggressive deck.

[@JustinPrime775]

I've been working on upgrading the Revenant Recon precon with Mirko, Obsessive Theorist and I am 100% guilty of putting in those counter removers to deal with finality counters. I'm going to have to re-evaluate some of my choices.

[@9DymOctane]

Joey stop telling everybody how good this deck is

[@EDHRECast]

Can't resist! Must tell everyone about the cool thing even if it means giving away all the secrets!!!

[@TechtonixZi]

I have an Eisenhorn deck, the main win con, aside from just damage, is Time Sieve, but I run zero tutors to make it less consistent, then deck also cares about drawing cards. I also am thinking of putting Winter in my Izoni Thousand-Eyed deck, but I need more testing if it wants to stay

[@Asmodeus696]

“Burn people to draw cards and draw cards to burn people.” - A Niv-Mizzet, Visionary deck. Formerly a Niv-Mizzet, Parun deck.

[@ryanfeery7361]

Can we get a video on your winter deck? I'd love to see some more about it

[@riccardozanoni2531]

OOh, let me try with my Xavier Sal deck: "i clone my commander to clone more stuff. Mostly krakens. A lot of krakens."

[@DustRodg]

This sounds a lot like an old article by Chad Ellis on TheDojo called "The Danger of Cool Things"

[@jachaimay3737]

So, kt sounds like we should time and price the play/synergy options for your commander and go for the the quicker/chealer options?

[@brennanclement8582]

This is something I've never had to deal with, my decks are usually pretty streamlined. It is nice that the decks usually work as intended, but at the same time I'm kind of jealous of the people who see all these cool connections that I just never even think of.

[@seanedgar164]

I had this with the Marvo deck I made last week, trying to do too much topdecking when really I just needed to up the average cmc 😂

[@IcyShyGuy]

I also have Precon Winter and I keep him base power as people are more likely to let him through for his attack trigger if just 2 damage

[@yohnazo]

I used to have a lot of enrage creatures and triggers like Pyrohemia in my Gishath deck, but found the deck way more consistent when I focused on big dinosaurs with triggeres that didn't rely on Enrage, but could only really do that after the the latest wave of new dinos. I get confused my commanders that seem to want to do a bunch of different things, like Anowon the Ruin thief, am I meant to be buffing my rogues and focusing on damage, running more mill and using tricks to reanimate opponent's stuff after I mill them, spread my damage with unblockable creatures to get more draws, if I've got all these unblockable creatures should I run some Ninjas? Ultimately it's whatever you want to deck to do, but I could never figure that one out 🤣

[@antoinethiaucourt1515]

I love the winter design/gameplay but I don't wanna built him because I saw so many times people playing him doing 20min turn because they reanimate so many stuff and have graveyard so full they hesitate to choose what they want. To me you can only play him if you know the lines of your deck, It's cool to have long games but not very long turns

[@markbrierley6367]

Cool idea, good advice. Focused too much on winning instead of deck goals for me.

[@mackejoel]

I've had this issue with Faldorn. It has taken forever to get it to the point where it is streamlined and does the thing

[@henrywebb3463]

Had a similar thing. Wanted to make a Vampire deck and now matter what I did it just didn't seem like my play style so I twisted it with one question. How many Blood token can I make? And now my Vampire deck now seks to make as many blood tokens as possible and does stuff with them. I love it.

[@MstrCorrin]

Don't just remove counters to remove counters, but if you can use the removal for another benefit... different story. Kinda the opposite of why I play Shilgengar in my Tayam deck - he gets back guys too big for Tayam and gives him a bunch of ammo to activate with, all while letting me discard reanimate targets

[@barrytdrake]

Jinnie Fay makes lots of hasty cats using repeatable token generation and token multipliers. I dropped a lot of good cards that didn't support that strategy.

[@Crawver]

Honestly I think people are big babies when it comes to finality counters. Realistically in most games of commander, you're only playing single permanents once. Maybe twice if your deck comes with some reanimation theme. For that reason, if a card dies, it's usually just dead forever anyway. The only concession I ever put towards it, even in reanimation decks, is something like nesting ground, or cards that move counters as a side utility outside of what it's usually there for. It's like how people are needlessly scared of mill. Finality really isn't anything of note.

[@JuQmadrid]

I got myself that Winter precon. I've been goldfishing it and it feels really clunky compared with other precons from Duskmourn. I'm not sure I can make it flow swapping just 10 cards.

[@FroPlamondon]

Zeriam pitch: i make griffins, then i make griffins, then i make griffins...

[@ganelon76]

What if part of the approach was to increase the counter? Try to make the card last longer so I can get killed. The you can get it back from the grave?

[@MrPinkpanzer]

I tried to like winter, but I found that there's just too many hoops and too many restrictions. You have to build your deck in a manner to balance your cards types, then you have to be able to cast your commander and attack. You then have to help setup your graveyard anyway because winter himself isn't consistent enough. After all that, you only get your permanent on end step, so you have to wait an entire turn cycle and hope it lives. That last part is what did it for me. Why not 1st main phase? Then I can surprise someone with a large threat, give it haste, and get paid off immediately? As it stands without strong static effects or etb, you just fall behind so easily when inevitably your threats are removed. Am I doing something wrong? What are you guys doing that I'm not? It just seems like it's a lot of squeeze just to bring back one permanent at your end step.

[@d.a.d.-ohgosh]

Pre-video comment (sort of I watched like a few minutes before getting distracted but didn't quite get to Joey's point yet). Prediction. I prolly do this 🤣

[@BelieMyBurial]

me when i play Arwen, Mortal Queen and my opponents think i'm gonna get up to counter shenanigans, but really it's just cause she's the cheapest indestructible legendary creature (who also happens to be in the right colors for Aura Voltron).

[@omegavulture8379]

I have my Maelstrom wanderer and if some one ask what does the deck do simply answer: I get 8 mana, cast my commander and we’ll take it from there 😁

[@adoo765]

1:52 because he’s a memberberry of the 80s. because he looks like Edward Scissorhands' son but even more emo. because he is the perfect representation of the bad part of duskmourn, that 80s astetic that dont fit in at all with magic the gathering

[@jonathanrichman2330]

Ah I hate it when someone brings up a commander I’ve been fighting my inner demons to not make. I’ve wanted to make Inquisitor Eisenhorn since I saw him spoiled. There are so many cool voltron ideas and basically all tge Tezzeret planeswalkers have an effect that makes each opponent lose life equal to the number of artifacts you control. But I have to resist

[@TheCommunistGamerTV]

Finality counters are great design, and I completely understand why they are here and what they seek to do. I still hate them.

[@EDHRECast]

hahahaha totally fair assessment :)

[@Crowned_Goblin]

I’m a bicep enjoyer and the photo made me click this video.

[@ajaydassani9931]

I've noticed that with my ziatora deck..

[@seanedgar164]

Lol this is Baba Lysaga reanimator

[@ansonng61]

I put as many +1/+1 counters on my creatures and punch you in the face.

[@Caliban_80]

I miss recognizing cards. I don't know any of these "legendary" creatures. Zipplesnort, the Clapping Panda. Brofni, the Crop Duster. Etc.

[@stephanmathys62]

Commander: Seizan, Perverter of Truth Elevator pitch: this deck “perverts truth” by making all your normal game actions, like drawling cards, creatures entering the battlefield, gaining life, or even attacking me, hurt you in some way. The red herring in other Seizan builds is to try to lean hard into group hug, giving everyone lots of extra draw and hoping that the hand size control and discard pings will be enough to win. I’ve found that having a broad range of effects is more accessible and can answer almost all of the different threats it faces.

[@nolifeSnorlax]

Winter has a lasergun and a spacehammer… get that garbage out of here -.-

[@adoo765]

Perfect.

[@bedazzled6534]

Missed opportunity to call the episode "REDHerrings" or something.

[@SilentGe42]

I came here exited to see a podcast about the card red herring... me sad now 😢

[@N4chtigall]

If you are playing Zaffai... Are you really playing for those 4/4's? Not really, there are plenty of Izzet commanders which are better at creating tokens and utilizing them. In my opinion the whole point of Zaffai is to chase those highs, even if it means that your deck won't be as optimized and good as it could.

[@williamstotzkowski148]

There's the comment bar! I found it. Does anybody feel like this is Joey AI Voice Clone? He's got the fast talk and down to up inflection, but it's felt too forced and consistently patterned. Hmmmmmm

[@williamstotzkowski148]

Even watching the roll while he's on even seems.... to be a .... RED HERRING!

[@EDHRECast]

If you mean my voice sounded weird, I was recovering from a cold the day I recorded my audio. No clones, just a boring ol' sick day.

[@Gamercosplayerfit]

This is mind blowing for I realize I do this red herring phenomenon alot 😱 Thank You!

[@DarkYoshiya]

Winter was so slept on because people see "finality counters" and think it's bad but as a newbie to graveyard strategies every game I've played with him I've become the problem at the table. The value has brings is so huge and forces your opponents to decide to deal with him and leave the 7+ mana thing you just revived, or deal with it and let Winter bring something else back is always fun. Thankfully as someone that was new to graveyard strats the idea of trying to constantly revive the same thing wasn't really in my mind when building the deck so I managed to avoid the trap of trying to remove the finality counters from the beginning. Like you I only run Nesting Grounds as a cute way to turn a destroy spell into an exile spell on opponents stuff.

[@zenalias3131]

hmmmm, makes me want to relook at my Ratonhnhaké꞉ton (aka Connor) deck where I have a number of flicker stuffs to reset his hexproof and unblockable, as well as a heavy equipment count. Maybe I could instead increase the creature count or interaction count. Definitely will do the elevator pitch to help me hone in onto the strategy I want for Connor.

[@williamstotzkowski148]

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