Veyran, Voice of Duality | Upping the Average

[@AristocrateBienEleve]

Wow! I always wanted to build a real Storm deck in commander! And now it’s possible, and as powerful as that! I’m not gonna lie, I’m really excited! Once more, a great video, really useful, and a great invitation to these decks which are winning machines!

[@EntheogenShaman]

I just smashed my Orvar and Zada decks together, it's a lot of fun.

[@masonmaddox6844]

Dude did the same thing too many triggers

[@kks557]

Wow, quick on the Veyran content! :-)

[@erickcolon1670]

Thanks for the vid. I've been wanting to upgrade my veyran for a while now and this has me get to the right track, one card that I like for this deck is radiant performer, it can get out of hand with the amount of copies you get of an instant/sorceries, another one of my personal touches I like that I can understand it not being an optimal choice is spreading inserection.

[@xicarus8141]

Dude yes, I've straight up won games with just radiant performer. Also Mirroring dragon is great for getting to 100 very quickly!

[@matiassalgado4891]

Loved the video. Thanks a lot!!! Really good material. I was waiting something like this for a Zaffai or Veyran.

[@KeroTheInvincible]

If we're playing Storm cards like Ground Rift in a Magecraft deck, a very interesting card to look into is Nivmagus Elemental. It lets us exile spells from the stack, and turn them into 2 +1/+1 counters a piece. This includes copies made from Storm, so we can exile the "token" copies from the stack, and leave the actual spell in the graveyard to re-use later if we want. The good thing about Magecraft is that it only cares when a spell has been cast or copied, not whether it resolves. So, each of those unused Ground Rift copies or 1 damage Grape Shot copies can turn into a permanent +2/+2 for the Elemental, while still reaping the full benefits of our Magecraft triggers.

[@Turn2Ugin]

That was a fun modern WAY back in the day

[@HauntedOnee]

I loved the way you said, "Dang!". Totally making this my first spellslinging deck. Wish me luck!

[@themecha47]

consider for non budget replacements -Higher CMC cards such as extra turn spells to really drag your opponants over glass -swapping the double vision for a rhystic for more gas collecting during off turns -swap the pyro goggles and the mindstone out for the red and blue medallions -FETCHLANDS -duals of any type -trade treasure cruise out for imp recruiter to fetch win pieces -adding magus of the wheel, and if you can afford it wheel of fortune or even time twister. Keep the pain coming. If you get extra turns going, days undoing will be good to keep in the hand in case you run out of gas with a second turn coming up. -Add a mystic sanctuary for valuable sorceries -trade firebrand archer out for harmonic prodigy, MORE TRIGGERS

[@DerpyLaron]

Let me get you in on the real spicy Veyran tech. We run Niv anyway, we all know how crazy niv is with curiosity effects. Now running curiosity just for niv would not be worth it...but we don't. We have multiple pingers. Putting a curiosity effect on any of those means we draw 6(!) Cards each time. Even more with Alchemist and Gel (9 if we start with them untapped). It is just insane card advantage, fits perfectly into the low mana curve and well as for now people are nor expecting it. I am personally not quite sure yet on the numbers. Running just one is to low, but running all 3 we got in blue might be to much. Just experiment and see how it works. I am currently running two and it works really well. Sadly we can't really spare more space for something like a psychosis crawler as we do need a high density of those low cost spells, but it's a fun option if you want to lean into drawing through your deck in various ways.

[@FPSveteran]

Three cards I'd recommend are: temur battle rage, unleash fury, and chandra's ignition. Chandra's can be a bit clunky when you dont want to lose your board, but can be devastating when going off with cantrips, or combos well with fury unleashed.

[@CortanaX]

Looks like a great time

[@Hashbrown1682]

Finally! *IT'S BEEN 84 YEARS!*

[@rubyyrare]

one thing to note about gelectrode in the honorable mentions section: it's a cast trigger, so the copies unfortunately don't untap him, as they weren't technically cast, only the original spell was. same goes for storm, so that's just a good thing to look out for. i have gelectrode in my deck already and he is still a house with the amount of cantrips, just he could've been twice as good if the copies worked

[@pedrocatarinodossantos2476]

It is amazing! The potential is absurd. I would love to see an Upping the Average of Akroma, Vision of Ixidor and Sakashima of a Thousand Faces focusing on keywords and copying Akroma or other creatures.

[@Syn-sn5wx]

tandem lookout pairs extremely well with the guttersnipe-like creatures for some insane card draw. it's harder to benefit from than jori en is, but it benefits you much more when you're storming off and fishing for your win condition if it isn't already in play. thermoalchemist probably makes the best pairing for it because you have to opt into thermoalchemist's effect, so you don't risk decking yourself out

[@krgood9008]

Krak + (any cast an instant/sorcery & make a mana), + veyran and a cantrip = a value driven way to draw cards, make mana, and even build a storm count.

[@Isaacreeper]

I like to call my Veyran deck a railgun. First few turns are just build up build up build up to a blast that kills the board.

[@Abby_Affchen]

Expressive iteration is a card that is overlooked alot but appears in alot of izzet lists now lol. It's such a great card

[@tmakalpha1]

This uncommon is now at least $3

[@Abby_Affchen]

@@tmakalpha1 and? That's cause it's a good card. I don't hear people constantly saying Put this in any deck that can run it. I don't hear anything about it I just know it's good

[@tmakalpha1]

@@Abby_Affchen not sure how a card that appears in a lot of Izzet lists now is overlooked a lot, that's all. I love it, it's in my own UR spellslinger.

[@Abby_Affchen]

@@tmakalpha1 cause there is barely any buzz. I even brought up how it's in alot of list but it isn't a card people would bring up. So thx for repeating what I said

[@Torsav]

Thanks! I'm in the final stages of my Veyran deck and it's always nice to have another viewpoint.

[@eduardogaona8510]

Veyran is Kalamax's new best bud.

[@entiao5570]

I used Kalamax to convoke a Chord Of Calling, fetching Talrand and Veyran. That's a lot of value 😅

[@themonkeyhand]

She reminds me of Shu-Yun but has double prowess to sub for the double strike you'd pay for = more mana for spells.

[@lugh.i]

Nice! Is it too late to ask for a Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer Upping the Average? I know she's an "old" commander now, but I absolutely love Morphs and the weird interactions they have.

[@bmxfreak1991]

you should do an update to this, awesome video!!

[@samtaro639]

I'm new to Magic, how can I confirm that the interaction with Stubborn Denial and Veyran works as you stated? Wouldn't Veyran remain at 2/2 until it's effect resolves?

[@KiteTCG]

Magecraft says "whenever you *cast* or copy". The Ability triggers as soon as you cast Stubborn Denial, and it triggers twice due to Veyran's other Ability. The two Magecraft triggers go on the stack on top of Stubborn Denial and resolve first, making her a 3/3 and then a 4/4. Now Stubborn Denial is Ferocious and resolves as such. I hope this helped!

[@BouncyAbigail]

I’ll probably remove something to add Sprite Dragon, not for any good reason, I just love the lil dude and how cute it is VS how much of a monster it can become quickly

[@calebdujmovic5837]

I would leave duelcaster mage in for a twin flame combo depending on how beefy you wanna be. Plus it's a outstanding source of interaction coming from red, it's like a Swiss army knife it can do it all

[@leodalkey651]

I believe bria riptide rouge will give this commander a run for its money. With creatures that get +X+0 with every inst and sorc, coupled prowess and unblockable you can really lay the hurt. Especially if you can hold on to your graveyard with cards like haughty djinn. I'm actually brewing this deck, looking for some of those "you get to play..." kinda cards. But it's already looking promising with plenty of room for 8 ideal counterspells.

[@subzerokstyles]

Love the content here! I am currently turning my version of this deck into Narset, Enlightened Master. I keep looking to see if you’ve added an Upping The Average episode on her because I NEED HELP! Any chance that’s in our future?

[@arymland01]

Just wanna add this as a general suggestion for all blue decks imo. PLAY RESCULPT!!!!! It is straight up just better than pongify and rapid hybridization unless you are using all of your mana every turn and the U vs 1U cmc makes a big difference in your deck. Exiling and hitting artifacts is insane and its only $0.25. Please put resculpt in your blue decks.

[@Turn2Ugin]

That card is such a sleeper

[@arymland01]

@@Turn2Ugin guaranteed $2 in a couple years if it doesn't see a reprint

[@RazielNightfall]

I finally found a home for my Sphinx-Bone Wand. Also have 2 face and spark dbl for extra mage craft triggers.

[@brianokafor9748]

Upping the average: zada, Hedron grinder

[@spencersonnier1]

I’d love to see your take on Sram Senior Edificer

[@viciousveras1648]

I would add "Eye of the storm" as a high mana cost card to the deck. It can potentially be better than Thousand-year storm, triggering twice for every spell cause of veyran

[@alphathewolf583]

Yes but with the decks cantrip capability thousand year can quickly get wild. Your second spell copied twice. Your third copied four times. Your fourth copied 6. In my deck my stormy stuff gets so wild i am cutting flat draw a card effects to avoid milling myself on the regular.

[@viciousveras1648]

you can run out of mana fast with thousand year storm and also deck yourself with the copies on cantrips. With a mana spell exiled + draw spell, you can add how much mana you want and since its a "you may" trigger, you wont deck yourself

[@alphathewolf583]

@@viciousveras1648 and i get its a good card. I personally run both as either one will run away with the game

[@ChonkkiGambo]

My group isn’t going to know what hit them. I just finished putting a deck together similar to this.

[@lorchenakumnarth6456]

Could you guys do an Upping the Average video on Killian, Ink Duelist please? I know it is not crazy popular but would love to see it!!

[@vaporeonlvl1009]

How do you guys feel about "blessing of leeches" in elenda the dusk rose?

[@PataStonks]

With these recommendations and choices, does this make Veyran competitive? Or at the very least viable against multiplayer matches?

[@diamonddaniels4439]

So when you have "thousand year storm" and " double vision" in play an you cast something... What happens my mind cant fathom whats happens

[@andreusemanuel4868]

I was afraid that a really good card would go unnoticed and sadly it did happen. Fellow spellslinger players, look for the card Insult/Injury. This card alone will make veyran do 12 damage and amplify all your creatures that can deal damage too. If you could copy insult multiple times it's even more bonkers.

[@isaacgartmayer7633]

true best spellslinger card ever. especially if u have copy effects

[@draken882000]

If you put pingers in this deck, consider Torbran as well.

[@Treanorium]

Interesting that everyone is making Veyran into a Voltron-y, OTK commander, while I'm sitting on my rituals to triple Comet Storm everyone in the face for 50 :D

[@plain6677]

Keep it this way! Much more fun

[@shesgard37]

I do the same thing with rootha at the helm

[@andreusemanuel4868]

Cant say I'm using Veyran but I do the comet storm strategy with Wort the raidmother and it is really fun.

[@jacket2848]

I'm here because I'm sick of Melek costing 6 mana to do fuck all for me repeatedly. Played tonight and even with all the scry and shit, still didn't copy a single spell (with 34 in deck) lol. Sometimes he does that mad izzet shit we all love, sometimes he sits around like a fucking womble lol

[@alphathewolf583]

50? Rookie numbers. My record with a veyran deck is cloning an x=100 245 times(bonus round is an amazing card to abuse)

[@snerdbrgrSkips]

Is there a way for non patreon to vote? Please do Laelia, the blade reforged next

[@AYooo_Its_D]

Is it possible to get a Beledros Witherbloom tech?

[@enoeht]

Surprised you didn't mention High Tide

[@Yesnomu]

I don't see Fierce Guardianship even in the non-budget Honorable Mentions--is it just assumed as a given that you'll play this card in a blue commander deck if you can afford it?

[@isaacgartmayer7633]

yes just like fow pon black lotos ect

[@adamkealy2630]

Extus please

[@brendensaur893]

Electrostatic infantry!

[@Nezgog]

Huh. Mine looks way different, but uncannily similar

[@jacket2848]

No temur battle rage? Very easy to one shot somebody and gain even more evasion

[@Millus1987]

In my experience, Metallurgic Summonings isn't that good. Sure it's more resilent because it's an enchantment, but usually in this kind of decks, you're more skewed towards using low cmc spells, and the enchantment will give tiny creatures like as Murmuring Mystic or Talrand. Not to mention that 5 cmc hurts. Anyways, those tokens are more for blocking anyways, so something like Saheeli, Sublime Artificer is better in my opinion, but usually with one or two token makers is enough.

[@AhranMaoDante]

Every cantrip version I've seen can take out an(1) opponent each turn with combat damage, or win via Grapeshot/Aetherflux Reservoir if they can chain enough cantrips in 1 turn. The one I built is not a cantrip deck, instead running higher costed instant/sorceries that let me dig for the combo pieces I need. Unlike the cantrip version, it wins the turn it combos off, via combat or direct damage, and so far, no later than turn 6. Would seem that lowering the curve isn't actually the best option.

[@ShadowValkyria]

i've built mine pretty much the same way, im not a huge fan of the cantrip build either

[@alphathewolf583]

I built mine around copy effects and looping bonus round for max spell cloning. I cut all the cantrips that draw cards for cards like anticipate and impulse to filter into my deck and allow me to overdraw without death.

[@BalefulStr1x]

Thousand Year Storm, Double Vision, Metalurgic Summoning and Swarm Intelligence can go for reality shift, impulse, leap and counterspell even in the base build. Those enchantments are simply put, overkill and not needed. The bullet train comparison has been made but those 5+ CMC enchantments just get in the way of that, acting as speed bumps rather than boosters.

[@tisseurdereves6414]

I'm surprised not seeing Collected Conjuring here : digs deep, almost always finds a couple of targets, and triggers Veyran by itself.

[@okgut2033]

Psychic Rebuttal sounds here nice too