Edictum Conferences: Tom Holland - Why I changed my mind about Christianity

Title: Why I changed my mind about Christianity
Speaker: Tom Holland (historian & author of Dominion)
November 17, 2022 - Cluj-Napoca
This recording is part of a series recorded during the Edictum Dei 10 event that took place in November 2022, in Cluj-Napoca, Romania.
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[@rheannahoffmann385]

I would travel the globe to see this man speak. Much trust and respect for his capacity to weave and integrate diverse, at times seemingly conflictual, information and beliefs. Thank you Tom Holland, and to all those who support him.

[@pamelavarilone2614]

Tom Holland is a treasure. One of the most insightful blends of history and sociology ever. American Roman Catholic here. Thank you ❤.

[@TeresaAE]

@pamelavarilone2614 • As a fellow Roman Catholic, I entirely agree with you ✝️

[@ashishsam7356]

Jesus is Lord & God is Good ❤

[@mohamoha-bk1wh]

Where is mentionned in the Bible that Jesus is God?!

[@KarlSchmitt-yk5cc]

@@mohamoha-bk1wh Hebrews 1:7 Of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire"; 8 But of the Son, "Thy throne, O God, endures forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of justice. 9 You loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; wherefore, O God, thy God hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness, more than thy companions." Maybe you'll find it. or Philippians 2:5 For you must be of the same mind as Christ Jesus was,[1] 6 who, when he was in the likeness of God, did not hold it as a robbery to be like God[2]; 7 but he emptied himself, took the form of a servant, and became like men[3]; 8 And invented in his outward appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on the cross. 9 For this reason God has exalted him beyond measure, and has given him a name that is above all names, 10 so that at the name of Jesus all the knees of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth may bow, 11 and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God, of the Father.

[@HOENUMAN]

​@@mohamoha-bk1wh Gospel of John, Chapter 14, Verse 6, Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

[@mfst100]

That's all you can tell... Moses wrote 10 commandments by himself. How about that?

[@annedobson-mack3688]

Ayaan Hirsi-Ali credits Tom Holland’s book, “Dominion”, with her decision to accept the Christian narrative as the way to make sense of her life and to promote a healthy society.

[@100joshua]

She does indeed. Good spot. 😊

[@ArtPhotographerLindsay]

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

[@brianwatts9896]

take a look at Vishal Mangalwadi's "The Book That Made Your World" for similar research coming from an Eastern perspective. Even more profound insights on how Science is totally dependent upon Genesis. Prior to Genesis, mankind was scared of his surroundings.. the idea that God gave creation to man as a gift, to be a steward of, and to take dominion over is a complete novel concept. Christian monks are the first ones enamored with the natural world and begin studying it, as they operate safely inside a narrative that everything is "good" and that it operates according to "laws" that emanate from a "lawgiver"

[@richfroiland2337]

His description of a crucifixion is heartbreaking. That he did that for us is beyond comprehension. I’m so thankful.

[@juliereason112]

I agree, it was so profound and moving that it evokes a sense of great protectiveness towards Christianity

[@jackhallander6706]

I’m so thankful that Christianity ushered in the era of burning at the stake for sedition rather than the taboo of crucifixion.

[@MoNtYbOy101]

He didn’t choose to be crucified, the Roman’s crucified him for committing treason.

[@HOENUMAN]

​@@jackhallander6706Jesus Christ is lord ✝️☦️🙏

[@kbeetles]

It is like a love letter to Christianity - sobering, informative and tender.... thank you Tom Holland!!

[@MariaPerez-uv8mm]

I agree! He’s wonderful ❤

[@armandopinedamd2869]

Brilliant conference and a great tribute to Christianity. However I mildly disagree with the defeat of Fascism. Nazism was destroy and became a nanowave of continuous evil. Comunism is mildly alive but hiden in the higher education abd culture but embeded in all of them Western World and China we can see the marriage of Socialism, Capitalism and Fascism with big brush of Agnosticism, and Ateism. Remember during the WWII Germany was National Socialism the USSR was Intetnational Socialism and Italy was Fascist Socialism. Please read Kardejl a Socialist from Yugoslavia that said that .... The Ultra right is the mirror image of the Ultraleft. In Godfather 3 in the mouth of the Cardenal he says to Michael el padrino..." Europe is a rock immersed in a fountain of Christianity but as a rick it is impermeable of its surrounding" Jesus never intended Social Justice the new "moral" injected as a Christian thought jn the West that is Macchiavelan

[@ninaballerina2807]

Only, Christians aren't fooled!

[@tyh3120]

Who can come after the Christ, but the Antichrist? It’s Islam + Communism.The Era of the Great Slavery is coming. The blood will flow like a river.....

[@GWConsultant]

I have both praise and critics. Thanks for sevearal great ideas - noticing cycle vs religio by philosopher Augustin, use of “last will be first” by Marx and fallacy of the liberation theology to build heavens on earth which has been NEVER promissed in the Bible. Remarks about fascism and simmilarities with communism are great! If covard politicians of West would clearly said that communism of Soviet union was as bad if not worse than fascism, there would not be such an ignorance among youth and universities that do woke things and de facto praize neo-marxism - a satanic ideas of changing world by means of mens’ socio-political engineering based on fallacious idea that common good (of a class of the last) is more valuable and worse of sacrificing good, freedom and even human right to live for a specific individual. Clearly satanic idea to change the world. BTW Joseph Stalin has received some christian education as well as Karl Marx. but… In 55:11 you just said about so - getting rid of any superstition is deep christian idea - and from the context one could derive that you are assuming this can be generalized to - getting rid of any superstition INCLUDING LIVING GOD, JESUS AND HOLY SPIRIT? In your view - to which denomination and christian tradition it applies? Let me guess - Probably in those who cherish philosophy of Augustine? Did you realize what you just said? Jesus teaches - from the fullness of your heart the mouth speaks. Colossians 2:8 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through PHILOSOPHY and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. This means you have probably lost your way, sorry! Repent! In Jesus name! 🙏 This might happen if theorizing becomes more important than the truth of the Word of God. This phenomena exists when believers are such by hearing of the word and not by doing the word, not loving the God from all your heart,soul,strength,mind. Tertullian did not warn in vain that Church of Christ lead by the Spirit is being converted by bishop of Rome into church lead by bishops (by men). And these are deads by satan. For this reason he was excommunicated - he being the first Latin father of church.

[@user-wn8cp3qf1x]

This lecture has moved me more than any sermon i have ever heard in my entire life. My goodness, what, almost devine insides this man has got.

[@CyntheaAnderson]

This was awesome! Suneidesis is a new word to me... 😀. I am an 82 year old widowed mom of 6, grandma of 11. One should never stop learning!

[@jmc8076]

So true.

[@bron-sconcess.10]

😊. I guess you might call it fellowship. 😏. As a Christian, that's what lifelong learning means in my, perhaps shallow world!

[@teganflyman5352]

Fantastic, thank you for your work Tom. From a Christianised atheist.

[@NeonDemon88]

I just ordered "Dominion," off Amazon. I love Tom Holland's precious historical works, especially "Persian Fire," and "Rubicon." He's a phenomenal writer, I so much look forward to reading his treatise on Christianity's influence throughout history.

[@patrickcurry3924]

I am reminded of the words of Christ in Revelation 21:5 “Behold, I make all things new.” Indeed, His words will never pass away.

[@user-pr8cw7zx1t]

Indeed , whatever this Jesus may have claimed ; regardless many things may be new but not to be attributed to him in the way it was expected ! For instance , his promised return is Long , Long , Long overdue ! These O T. and N.T. narratives are shaman invented superstitiously based myths and fables and ought Not to be taken seriously as historic fact !

[@SanjuroSan]

That was.... incredibly powerful, moving, fascinating, and a sobering reminder of who we really are.

[@joecotter6803]

No it wasn't. I would have been happier if he examined the rape, pillage and genocide of northern America and its indigenous people. This was carried out by Christians. These events make what happened in Iraq resemble a tea party. What sticks in the craw the most, is his lack of political analysis. ISIS was created by American Christians aided bt Tony Blair.(now a Catholic). Holland has reacted to Pascal's Wager in the most pathetic manner and has undermined much of his work. A shame.

[@nicokarsen6131]

The mechanism for salvation in Christianity is the murder and torture of a human being which Christians celebrate with a symbolic cannibalistic meal. Who you really are? Members of a death cult based on human sacrifice and the coercion of children.

[@alexandertaslim1249]

All bullshit..

[@greenbank4800]

What a wonderful lecture based on such an in-depth historical and moral foundation. Thank you Mr Holland for your insight and wisdom. Thank you to the organisers for organising this public lecture.

[@stephenarnold6359]

Among all the countless online talks, lectures, addresses, most of which leave no impression one month later, this stands out as moving, significant and memorable. How few few intellectuals are capable of realising how momentous the events discussed are? Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins, for all their cleverness, are quite incapable of the large vision and are not even on the same planet (so to speak) as Tom Holland.

[@einstu]

Nonsense. You should listen to them. Keep in mind, Tom is talking about the historicity of the Christianity. He has provided no proof of any of its precepts. Christian "religion" continues to be a world of fantasy.

[@ericholmberg2963]

God is up to something special in this hour. Some of the most powerful, prophetic, articulate, and wonder inspiring "preachers" of the Gospel of the Kingdom are stragglers, winnowing around the edges of the wheat field.

[@ebazileyes1475]

????

[@gapstander6059]

What do you mean ?

[@ptptpt123]

Very poetically put.

[@wendyfield7708]

All recent Popes have warned against secularisation….but we must always trust in the Holy spirit and have Hope

[@Miriana727]

Thank you Tom Holland. I have bought your book and given it to my agnostic son who is reading it. Your book is informative and very readable. Again, Thank you.

[@csk4j]

I think some atheists liked being atheists in a christian society. Being an atheist in an atheistic society is much darker. Even John Lennon saying with warmth about the joys of coming home at Christmas Life loses a lot of meaning if there is no home, no family and no Christmas.

[@tomgreene1843]

All atheists are smart?

[@joecotter6803]

Not me. King Charles is the Head of State and the head o the Church of England. He is an adulterer of dubious morals. He is taking £100M from the mouths of the poor for his coronation. The COE was founded by a deeply immoral person who executed 2 of his wives. This is the foundation of living in a Christian country. Open your eyes. Religion is a racket.

[@MoNtYbOy101]

John Lennon was a scumbag.. he’s not a person one should look upto in any way.

[@edh.9584]

He has the profoundest insight when he says that the Cross is the central and pivotal event in human history.

[@JM-qw7vg]

Thank you so much for this talk. I am currently reading Dominion, which is why this talk caught my eye. It is an insightful and beautifully written work. Highly recommend. Tom Holland's intellectual humility and honesty is deeply admirable and engaging. Watching him speak is so enriching in terms of reading his works because it brings his written words to life in a more personal way.

[@Mutasis_Mutandis]

Just bought it! Haven’t gotten into it yet.

[@annedobson-mack3688]

Ayaan Hirsi-Ali credits that book with her decision to become a Christian.

[@DevorahC]

Somehow you missed that it was Judaism which portrayed many great prophets who suffered and declared love thy neighbor. JESUS got all his loving kindness (chesed) consciousness from his Jewish Learning and immersion in Jewish life which is about doing good deeds. It is Judaism that is the seedbed of western civilization. Catholic church buried his Jewishness.

[@mrcomment5544]

@@DevorahC Uh. No. You completely miss the point of Christ's message if this is what you really think. And there is no reason to do that other than ignorance or disingenusousness. Also, Christ's message was to the whole world, including the Gentiles. That is what was one of the most scandalous things to the Jews.

[@brianwatts9896]

I also just bought Dominion. Expecting it to be as good as "The Book that Made Your World" by Vishal Mangalwadi

[@clscurlock]

This was profound. Thank you for speaking, Mr. Holland. Thank you to the Edictum Dei channel for posting!

[@KD400_]

Are u Christian

[@claudesantolini6335]

I think it's just as logic to admire/worship nature, i.e. trees, wind, etc, as it is to worship invisible things which have never been seen by anyone, i.e. gods

[@hydrostat529]

​@@claudesantolini6335It's not about 'logic'.

[@sedr7273]

"On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross, the emblem of suffering and shame; and I love that old cross where the dearest and best for a world of lost sinners was slain. So I'll cherish the old rugged cross till my trophies at last I lay down; I will cling to the old rugged cross, and exchange it some day for a crown."

[@jfkmuldermedia]

Yes, absolutely.

[@katrinsmu]

This was a pleasure to listen to. The concluding remark is beautiful: "Had Christ died on the cross and then not risen from the dead it would have meant nothing. It would have meant no more than the death of countless multitudes of other people who suffered that fate. But for Christians, it’s what I guess physicists would call a singularity. It’s a point where the structures and frameworks that have governed the cosmos collapse and huge new potentialities open up. And so I would think of it in the Christian understanding of time and space it’s like the kind of axel rod that the entire cosmos revolves around. Which is why I think it’s only fitting that the cross should serve as the symbol of Christianity.”

[@carlosalbertosaveedradelca6565]

Brillant!

[@marksandsmith6778]

Dream of dogma . Meaningless.

[@kimbirch1202]

The Resurrection proved that there is no death. That is its only meaning. This is because, in reality, bodies do not contain life. " it is the SPIRIT that gives life ; the flesh counts for NOTHING " John 6 : 63. It is crucial to understand the crucifixion, and Resurrection, in the context of the truth teachings of Jesus.

[@marksandsmith6778]

@@kimbirch1202 Your post ignores 300 years of knowledge including biological and literary research. I hope this correspondent holds no responsible job.

[@Telorchid]

@@kimbirch1202 humans are an embodied beings. Life comes from God, who is ontologically spirit, but Jesus's body is a real body, both before and after His death. He remains embodied at the Father's right hand. Through that body He delivered the creation, and His resurrection is the inauguration of new creation. Whatever life material, contingent beings have is finite, and life from the Spirit is infinite, but death is a very real enemy (whom Jesus defeated, yes, but it still plagues us). The body matters because the Triune God created it, and because He died to save it, not just redeem spirits to be whisked away from material creation.

[@franzjohnston]

A truly great, insightful, understandable talk. As a Christian I have long understood the significance, power and reverence of the Cross. Thank you so much Tom, this was really inspiring.

[@Y0urMisterDirty]

I don’t find myself praying for public figures all that often, but I often pray for the soul of Tom Holland and that Christ would reveal himself to him

[@jessicafuss4792]

I thought he identified as Christian?

[@malvokaquila6768]

@@jessicafuss4792 not as of yet to what I've seen. However he is stating that he is in Christianity as a culture. His book is on just how important Christian ideas are to the rise of wester civilization.

[@deborahhebblethwaite1865]

Mr Holland’s soul is just fine🇨🇦

[@shuttlefeather]

😂😂❤❤❤❤😅😂😢❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😢😢😢😢😢😢😅😢😢😅😢😅🎉❤😢😅😢😮

[@marksandsmith6778]

TH is not good at the magical thinking.

[@karenkline7221]

Remember, the Dark Ages weren't called that during that time. The time when Christianity was spreading. Only after people were turning away from Christianity, during the so-called "Enlightenment".

[@epicccurusaurelius2634]

The dark ages was used because we didnt know much about the middle ages. Not that it was horrible.

[@christoheiberg312]

I have waited almost 62 years to hear this. The last lines were also the most powerful. Thank you Tom!

[@teejayaich4306]

Tom's one of the greatest historians - and (importantly) communicators of history even to those who do not (as I do) naturally seek it out - alive today, his work is a great mix of hardcore genuine academic work and accessible and pleasurable writing.

[@Harlembrown]

That was OUTSTANDING! And I mean it in the full sense of the word. That encompassed so very much that I see myself watching this again and again. May God bless Tom Holland and his family. ☦☦☦

[@philipdurban]

Stunningly coherent and useful presentation. Brilliant Q&A too!

[@jakeroberts6274]

Wow. So great. Best talk and q&a on Dominion by Tom so far

[@deborahhebblethwaite1865]

A thoroughly enlightening talk. Thankyou🇨🇦

[@DantheArtMan]

Spectacular. Humble. Honest. Brilliant.

[@solavita306]

What a wonderful talk. I'm so glad I stumbled across this!

[@soniavadnjal7553]

Me too,🙂.

[@kymdickman8910]

And me 😊

[@Sharkman1963]

Tom Holland is one of the most intellectually honest historians writing these days. He may not (yet) believe in the Truth of Jesus Christ's Resurrection, but he still manages to spread the Holy Spirit with speeches like this one. Brilliant.

[@busterbiloxi3833]

There was no resurrection.

[@Sharkman1963]

@@busterbiloxi3833 prove it

[@busterbiloxi3833]

@@Sharkman1963 The burden of proof is on you.

[@Sharkman1963]

@@busterbiloxi3833 Nope. Burden is on you. I've had it proved to my satisfaction.

[@busterbiloxi3833]

@@Sharkman1963 How laughable! Not proven at all. Have the desert God meet me, and Elvis and JFK and Jimmy Hoffa and Big Foot at a diner on I-85 and THEN I'll believe it.

[@kafon6368]

What he said matches perfectly why Christianity overtook the pagans in the Roman Empire. When the beggars asked for food, the Christians gave it to them because of charity to their neighbor. When the beggars asked for food, the pagans ignored them because it was the destiny of the beggar to beg and die. Nietzsche fell in love with this savage philosophy. What good is society if we despise each other?

[@ownpetard8379]

But if one is not a beggar, a community is just future beggars in the making. In the US now, there is far less sense of a community than what I recall 30-40 years ago. Several years ago in what I think was Tropical Storm Agnes - east coast US - Governor Christie (New Jersey) gave a TV talk about looking after your neighbor. At the same time, the Pennsylvania governor - name forgotten - said that everyone was on their own. A state governor said that. It has gotten worse since then. God save America.

[@rolandrayn4869]

Amazing. Tom is a walking encyclopedia !

[@ferrantepallas]

This is an absolutely brilliant presentation. Having read Dominion, itself a masterful work, what you say here magnifies the impact of your thesis about the impact of Christ's teachings.

[@Practical.Wisdom]

This is an excellent conference, from start to finish. Huge thanks to the organisers and everyone involved in creating this memorable event!

[@stephen2975]

The most amazing thing is that in Christ you are given the power to become a Son of God! Christ being the head of a new race, the first born from the dead!

[@katelane8016]

Incredibly inspiring. Thank you Mr. Holland. You make me curious to study and grow and learn.

[@longandshort6639]

Yes indeed!! Jesus is Alive forevermore. He has risen! Everything changed because of the resurrection.

[@joecotter6803]

How do you know he is risen? Did he ever rise? How do you know?

[@charleseichab8958]

The Bible says so

[@joecotter6803]

@@charleseichab8958 The Bible is an unreliable set of documents. Why do you believe what is in it? The resurrection story is contradictory.

[@EyreEver]

​@@joecotter6803If he didn't... nothing matters one whit. And we all suffer for nothing.

[@ionut-daniel-iosifmalita8543]

The idea of the law of God being written on the heart is also found in the Old Testament, where authors write about the circumcision of the heart.

[@thejoin4687]

Yeah. They lop off part of the ventricle.

[@jf7243]

What an extraordinarily eloquent and personal testimony of an eminent historian. He spoke with hardly a note and few props and yet with a dexterity, passion and honesty which was so very compelling. Thank you! Consider Christ, his death and resurrection has meaning beyond.

[@andrewvavuris8789]

I don’t know whether Mr. Holland realizes this but his analysis is evangelizing. God bless him.

[@MyChannel-1999]

Powerfull. Jesus Christ bless you,sir

[@Lakeslover1]

Tremendous talk . Thank you .

[@pauljabore5737]

Better than any preacher I ever heard. Thank you, Tom Holland.

[@ninaballerina2807]

You got what your itching ears sought. For you are as removed from Christ as Tom Holland is.

[@timothypye901]

He is a preacher. He's certainly no historian. He did a lit degree and started his career writing fiction.

[@ninaballerina2807]

@@timothypye901 Have you ever seen him hold a Bible while giving his talks? Or making references to its verses by reading them aloud whilst giving his talks? The answer is a thunderous NO. Besides the obvious fact that he does NOT preach. So, on what grounds do you call him a preacher? Especially when the fact is that even when he pretends to allude to the Lord, his ignorance of Him and his arrogant disregard of His Word in totality does not go amiss???? The truth is he is just another wolf in sheep's clothing desperately vying for Christian audience to the nonsensical delivery of his seemingly incessant gab.

[@Rocky-ur9mn]

@@timothypye901 his works are accepted even in scholarly athiestic circles. Your bias is showing

[@timothypye901]

@@Rocky-ur9mn Which 'scholarly atheistic circles' are they, Rocky? Also, may I politely suggest that you can't possibly have any insight into my position from the type of short comment that is generally posted on here. You have no idea who I am or what the basis for my judgement is, frankly. However, I stand by what I said about Tom Holland's status as a historian. He has none.

[@deusvult1099]

I wrote this commentary to Holland's talk and I thought I would share it with the world ;-) It was a fascinating lecture and it was the first thing that came into my mind upon waking the next morning. I was so impressed by it, that I've decided to send this to all ex-students on my old email lists, which I have not done in a long while. I hope you read this and listen to his speech, even though I would not call him a true Christian! He covers everything from crucifixion and the evils of Mohammedanism to the pre- and post-Christian worlds. Nietzsche is also in there. The aspect I would like to comment on is one that I have spoken of before: Liberalism is Christianity without God. Ironically, I have Yuval Hariri, the Israeli, atheist, left-wing, sociologist, who wrote Sapiens, to thank for making me realize this. He did not actually phrase it this way, but that's the gist of it. Holland talks about how "atheists are like goldfish swimming in Christian waters" and do not even realize it. I have experienced this in my debates with some liberal ex-students, debates which have cost me their friendship. They have accused me of being out of touch with reality, blinded by my faith in a God that does not exist or Who I have incorrectly understood. The ironic thing is, that all the arguments they make about the liberal order, democracy and human rights all derive from Christianity and that they would never think what they think in 2024 AD without the dawn of that religion 2000 years ago. Holland compares the words of Jesus and St. Paul to "depth charges" dropped beneath the surface of Greco-Roman society and that we are still feeling the "ripple effects" of these explosive words in our own day. Liberalism The beliefs of modern liberalism all have their roots in Christianity. As you know, Liberalism comes from libertas, freedom, but it is also connected to liberi, the "free-born children" of antiquity, who had rights as Roman citizens. We sometimes call the study of the humanities the "liberal arts", not because they are a study of liberty, but because these are the subjects traditionally taught to these sons of free Roman citizens and Roman nobility. Free-born men who had rights is key here. In the Roman Empire and under Roman law, only citizens had rights. In the Kingdom of Christ, under His Law of Love, all having been freed from sin, become citizens of Heaven and heirs to the Kingdom. The ideas of human rights, including women's rights, equality, and the freedom of the individual, in general, but also the specific sense of the free will of Christianity as opposed to the inescapable Fate the Greeks and Romans believed in -- all of these come from the Christian tradition. As St Paul writes: "Jew or Greek, slave or free, woman or man no more, but all are one (and equal) in Christ Jesus." The pagan Greco-Roman world was based on slavery, oppression and "might makes right". Human life was cheap and disposable. Today we are reverting to a neo-paganism in which the weakest members of society are disposed of for being inconvenient, especially at the start and finish of natural life. The traditional Western respect and concern for the weak, comes from the image of Our Suffering Savior and the martyrs who followed in His footsteps...from a Faith in which "God's power is made perfect through weakness." Women had it much worse than after the conversion of the Empire to Christianity. Feminism can also trace its roots to Christianity, a religion which elevated marriage to the level of a sacrament in which both men and women had equal rights and claims over each others' bodies. The reverence and devotion given to the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God in a way, elevated women above ordinary men, but when the divine masculinity of Christ is taken out of the picture, we are left with radical feminism's attempt to place women entirely above men, imposing a matriarchal dictatoress-ship and a unnatural disdain for motherhood. It is because of the Christian idea that each person is "made in the image and likeness of God" with an immortal soul and has immense dignity and value, that we have modern democracy, which holds that each individual matters and should have a voice and therefore, a vote. However, without God, liberal democracy will self-implode and open the door to a second round of atheistic totalitarianism, post-Stalin and Hitler. This brings me to the conclusion that when God is taken out of the equation, all of these positive values: freedom, equality etc., are perverted and taken to radical and self-destructive extremes. Holland mentions that Nietzsche wrote that without Christian faith, one cannot maintain Christian morality. This is true, because without an absolute God as an unchanging moral constant, we will gradually make ethical compromises and our morals will go down the toilet, which is what we are seeing today. The same applies to the political and social values of today's liberalism. Without God as a rudder and anchor, we will drift away towards an eventual and total shipwreck. Communism and Secularism Holland correctly demonstrates that Communism and Secularism surprisingly and paradoxically have their roots in Christian soil. Christ said: "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and God what is God's", dividing the world into two spheres, the spiritual and temporal (secular). St. Paul tells Christians to "honour and obey the king (even if pagan) and to pay taxes," because "all authority is from God." Christ also told one of His disciples to bring "two swords", which would be enough for their mission. This verse was developed into the Doctrine of the Two Swords, one spiritual, the other temporal. This is why Europe never fell into theocracy like in Islam or Buddhist Tibet. The spiritual and temporal worked together and supported each other in a type of marriage, but always remained distinct, despite their cooperative union. Without God the secular sphere has made man into a false god, an idol to be worshipped in the religious cult of human rights as he tries to rebuild the Tower of Babel in order to invade Heaven and usurp God's throne. In Communism, the Christian roots are even clearer, but the perversion deeper. As Christ said: "The first shall be last and the last shall be first". Again and again He speaks of the poor and the oppressed and how "theirs is the Kingdom of God." We need only to look at the religious fervor and dogmatism of the Communism of the 20th century to see that this ideology was more of a religion than a political philosophy. The Communists took the Christian concept of equality before God offered by Christ to godless extremes, forgetting that Christ's Kingdom "was not of this world" and His words that "the Kingdom of Heaven is within you." Communism, like Christ, gave free bread to thousands, but it ignored the fact that "man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God." Without God and ignoring the spiritual needs of man, they tried to bring about a humanistic Heaven on earth, which quickly became a Hell. Holland talks about Communist iconoclasm echoing back to the French Revolution, the Protestant Rebellion, and all the way back to early Christianity and even Judaism in which the idols and shrines of false gods were destroyed to free people of superstition and magic, thus enlightening them. I would add the examples of Islamism, which some see as a "Christian heresy", as reaction against Christian images and then the self-destructive Christian Iconoclasm of the Byzantine Era, which was clearly influenced by the preceding heresy of Mohammed. This idea of tearing down idols, both physical and ideological, to attain enlightenment and salvation, is a Judeo-Christian one. Nationalism Holland does not mention this, but I would add it. Going back to the Old Testament, we see that the Israelites were a "chosen nation" raised above all others as part of the covenant with Abraham, of whom God promised to make the greatest nation, God's own holy people and royal priesthood. The first Christians saw the Catholic Church as the New Israel and themselves as the inheritors of the Abrahamic promises in a spiritual and universal sense. Despite this universality, I think that the idea that one's own tribe or nation is somehow special with a special mission can, in this sense, be traced back to Judeo-Christian roots. Again and tragically, without God, we have seen how toxic and destructive nationalism can be. So in conclusion, dear agnostics and atheists who may be reading this commentary, as hard as you may try, you will never escape the influence of Christianity on your thought and world-view. You are goldfish in a fish bowl, trapped in Christian waters, sucking in Christian values through your gills. However, as time goes on, the goldfish may jump out of their bowl...but that would mean certain death. This "strange death" as Douglas Murray calls it, is what awaits us if we do not replant this precious "cut flower" of Western Civilization in its native, nutrient-rich Christian soil. As Nietzsche prophetically warned us, great and horrible convulsions would occur with the "death of God", which we saw in the 20th century. Are there more violent convulsions and upheavals to come or will the West cling to and attempt to replant the last remaining Christian roots as it begins to value that which it is losing? And if so, will this realization come too late? For the meantime, you may prefer the cheap, fake imitation of Liberalism, but I will stick to the original Faith of Jesus the Christ. Amen +

[@Tes-qe1jc]

Afterall, It's actually us Christians who change the world and who DID change the world. We can not rely on the Godless people to change the world, whoever they are. Never forget "We are the Light of the world ... and the Salt of the Earth." There really is no one out there who has the True Light: Christ Jesus!. So, let them come back to us, not us going to them. May the Lord bless you and keep you; and be gracious to you. and shine his face upon you. Numbers 6:24-26

[@angelakuru3914]

Thank you for sharing your writings , I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and happen to agree with you 100%. My faith is in the birth, life, death and resurrection of our wonderful Lord and Saviour, it is him alone who was sent to save this world, our job is to share this good news with man kind. The world is a dark place with so much evil , and the day of the Lords return is near. We must do our work before it is too dark . God bless you

[@deusvult1099]

@@angelakuru3914 Thank you Angela. We must let the Light shine in the darkness. In the words of St. Francis, the light of one single candle cannot be overcome by all the darkness in the world!❤‍🔥

[@dougmoore5252]

Yes, that is true, a love letter to Christ the Lord.

[@ninaballerina2807]

Oh, so you imagine just because Tom Holland has succeeded in fooling men, he can fool God too?! Well, carry on deluding yourself if that is what you choose, given to deception as to deceive the lot of you are.

[@Hope20249]

Fabulous. Thanks

[@2Uahoj]

Well, a couple of points: 1) I don't think St. Paul was "haunted" (28.45 ) or perplexed by the cross; Paul had direct experience of Christ and perhaps more than any other disciple, knew what it meant & why it was necessary. 2) Yes, communism emulated some of Christianity's teachings (e.g. "universal brotherhood of man"), but ultimately perverted them in the most brutal and deadly ways. Totalitarian communism was in fact far more deadly than Italian or Spanish totalitarian fascism. 3) Christianity has sown the seeds of its own demise? Ok, so Christianity calls for abandoning false idols (actually it's the first Commandment), but that in no way implies that Christianity has been complicit in Atheists condemning Christian symbols. Rather, what has most contributed to the demise of Christian belief has been materialism, modernism, and scientism.

[@colinthomson5358]

The next question would be, what created science? It came out of christian countries and people who were christian for a reason. Modernity too. I guess the problem isn't stopping worship of idols but taking that 2 steps further and destroying said tree or rock or symbol. If nothing is sacred, well, then nothing is sacred.

[@2Uahoj]

@@colinthomson5358 God created science.

[@arulsammymankondar30]

Christianity has inherent cause for its demise because ultimately it offers a choice between spiritual and secular. Such a choice emphasises individaul freedom. It doesn't root for a theocratic model which negates individualism. The very freedom Christianity offers can be its undoing .Holland's interpretation is guided by this perspective.

[@LactatingFly]

Thank you

[@bibekranjannaik3106]

Jesus Christ is the symbol of love, joy, peace and sicrifice........he is the beginning of everything

[@oneyzuniga6482]

moving and powerful and humbling. a real call to go back to our cultural home, the cross.

[@jessealexander7455]

Top-notch scholarship succinctly shared. Thanks Tom!

[@joecotter6803]

There was precious little scholarship in this emotive dirge. His report from Iraq was the most pathetic analysis of the situation there I have read or seen. No political analysis. No praise for Saddam Hussain who kept the peace amongst these relegious fanatics. No condemnation of the Christian West. Don't forget Bush and Blair prayed together. A thoroughly disreputable piece of work.

[@wendyfield7708]

Hagia sofia was first a Christian cathedral before it ever became a mosque, hence its shape and the Christian mosaics.

[@marleneflourentzou680]

Hagia Sofia was a church built by the Greeks before being stolen by Turkey

[@deborahjoyvalentine6180]

Tom Holland ending expose with Christianity being the seedbed of what the Western World hails TRUTH. I certainly share concern Mr. Holland expresses what will Earth be without what the West has done to enrich, contribute to and defend the World.

[@Virginia.Espinosa]

Thank you so much, brilliant

[@katykristensen302]

"Almost every book (of the Bible) contains something that has convulsed the world." - Tom Holland

[@bhaskarc122]

Pray for India and Nepal. Giving Bible is greatest gift to every believer who are in need.

[@badpapi5043]

Go worship Horous. Christians and Christianity is joke.

[@borneandayak6725]

​@@cullenkehoe5184 yes, it first created in 19th century. People who use that old stuff must be a new comer atheist.

[@uiPublic]

Myths folklore about a Himalayan King and Queen would capture the mindsets during Greco Roman era after the Maurya Gupta suzerainty.

[@delfine7163]

Make it the New Testament as the rest is full of violence, seduction etc sadly!

[@bhaskarc122]

Pray for India Nepal. Pray for Nepali Churches in Bangalore.

[@user-vt8vv7ir4s]

"And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." Matt. 21:44.

[@fritula6200]

This man speaks about the Bible as a historical and political lesson:

[@leestokes504]

Inspiring talk Tom Holland, thank you. I must buy your book.

[@laviniaflorist288]

The CROSS...so beautiful, this made me cry ❤

[@PatriciaHernandez-un1xp]

Ufff, this lecture made my heart race. I have to listen to it again. So powerful…

[@nicokarsen6131]

The mechanism for salvation in Christianity is the murder and torture of a human being which Christians celebrate with a symbolic cannibalistic meal. Who you really are? Members of a death cult based on human sacrifice and the coercion of children.

[@peipappy615]

Thank you for this talk ❤

[@Cb489]

I can listen to him forever

[@bron-sconcess.10]

Certainty in the God of Abraham, as a Christian is one thing. Self knowledge can be quite another. Tom's self confidence and knowledge as a historian is as enjoyable and remarkable, as it is freeing!

[@hamsterforever7670]

Great talk!

[@kwall1464]

Loved this, thanks for sharing!

[@nigelhard1519]

1.05 to 1.15. This is the underlying problem now in France and the UK, probably everywhere in Europe and beyond: the stark realisation that the 'Christian stance' cannot be taken for granted.

[@edh.9584]

Such great honesty. Honesty always leads to the truth.

[@gianellacarreno8205]

Outstanding! 🙏🏼✝️😊

[@highlightoftheday7058]

I'm watching this quite late, so will have to finish watching the rest of it tomorrow. But this is a fascinating talk by Tom.

[@ernie7453]

Are we not going to return to the question of dinosaurs?

[@kenithandry5093]

Just WOW! The Q & A is tremendous!

[@WealthyTower]

Beautiful 🥰🌄

[@basilhendricks788]

Great presentation

[@z853c7]

absolutely riveting. great job mr holland

[@vivianaravot5483]

Thank you for sharing. 😊

[@veroniquechateauneu8525]

Thank you so much for this insightfull conference. For people who are mild in their faith, it helps us to bring us back on wisdom christianitu

[@mchangkiri]

Brilliant. I can appreciate Christianity more after this.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

Holland is pretty sharp. He’s not the only one to point out that atheism is the child of Christianity. Our faith is unique in that it encounters and comes to terms with the very death of God in Christ. But as Holland says, Christ is the victor over death, by his own death. It’s my opinion that this only makes full sense if you understand who Christ is through apocalyptic Jewish terms, that He is the very God of Israel incarnate, the Bridegroom who comes in the flesh to dwell with his beloved Israel. Knowing this, his crucifixion is all the more significant.

[@2Uahoj]

In my view he is wrong in asserting, "atheism is the child of Christianity." There were untold numbers of atheists prior to Christianity, most famously, Socrates. The key difference was that you could lose your life at that time by proclaiming such thoughts.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

@@2Uahoj atheism was not a crime in the Eastern Roman Empire. I don’t know where you get this notion, large-format coffeetable picture books?

[@2Uahoj]

@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 Thanks for the insult. The bigger question is why responders on You Tube are so thin-skinned? Otherwise, what is your reference for the idea that pre-Christian public atheisms were not a crime?

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

@@2Uahoj the death of Socrates is indeed famous as an example of classical Athenian intolerance. I don’t think the term atheism as we understand it applies. Early Christians were persecuted by the pagan Roman state under such a rubric as it meant the Christians didn’t participate in the state religion. Socrates’ case was rather different.

[@2Uahoj]

@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 The terms don't matter, as terms for similar behaviors change with the ages. The question is about the behaviors and the responses to them.

[@nunca789]

57:37 “How do you see the future of Christianity in Europe in the next 100 years?” 57:50: (paraphrasing Holland) Three possibilities: (1) the liberal secular society in the West, the heir of Christendom, will maintain itself without Christian faith; (2) that the story from WWII and of Hitler will fade, Christian teachings will start to fade, so people will re-enshrine the values of the ancient world that the notions that power, glamor and swagger are to be valued and praised, and that weakness is to be despised will re-emerge; and/or (3) people will recognize that you can't really have Christian values without Christian belief and that people in Europe will perhaps come to recognize the loss and return to valuing Christianity. Holland’s talk is quite powerful and stimulating - I disagree with his “three future possibilities” however. Another possibility seems likely, i.e., that the descent of Christian-sourced values will result in widespread loss of objective truth, which in turn will result in chaos and confusion first in minds and then in economic and social policies and outcomes. Out of chaos and confusion will arise, as always, powerful leaders who promise physical safety (for most), financial security, and a predictable life. Lacking the objective truth that robbing, persecuting, and killing hated groups is evil, those time-tested methods will resurge. The current trends, including censorship, attacking speakers on campuses and in public places, “canceling” and “doxxing,” point to that mindset of “we need to destroy the defined enemy by any means necessary.”

[@mccaboy]

EVERY PASTOR SHOULD READ HIS BOOK DOMINION AND UNDERSTAND HOW TO STAND AS cHRISTIANS IN THIS SEASON

[@chrisbergman6098]

Powerful

[@theodoreconstantini2548]

Tom is one of the country's treasure's.

[@gregglory]

Provocative and insightful. Tied to both his own experience and to the largest ideas of what it means to be Christian and to modern West, human

[@annedobson-mack3688]

Islam is like the ancient religions which did not separate church and state. This may explain both why Muslims seek to leave Islamic nations for the rights and freedoms in the “Christian” nations of the West, and also, perhaps, something that makes it difficult for some Muslim immigrants to assimilate/integrate into Western nations.

[@dannyboy8625]

I am christian, In my church, we interpret the millenium in the bible as if that's here and now. And, hearing this talk, I can say this is the wonderful time of the millenium. I am amazed of this exquisite talk. Blessings from the americas

[@albusai]

It can't be

[@margaretschooling4255]

The millennial reign of Christ has not taken place yet. Jesus, the Messiah will physically return to earth in the same way He left, on the clouds of heaven and His feet will touch the Mount of Olives, and He will rule and reign on earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years, but before that happens there will be a false Messiah who proclaims himself in Jerusalem, but God will destroy him. This will take place after the rapture of the Church, which will soon take place. There will be a 7 year tribulation, where God will judge the unbelieving world. While there is time, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved. Yes, it is the cross that paid for sin, and brings humanity back from the fallen state into holiness before God, that we may live in communion with God, who is holy. Death could not defeat Jesus. Jesus defeated death, and because He lives, we who are in Christ live!!

[@hotmaruli3007]

@@margaretschooling4255 Amen!☺

[@cristiani.lepindea8676]

@@margaretschooling4255 And how will he rule for 1000 years? will he cut off the heads, imprison those who do not believe?! Where will he live?! Will he go to the bathroom for example?! What you say is very stupid! And the rupture of the Church already took place 1000 years ago, it is called the Great Schism!

[@cristiani.lepindea8676]

@@margaretschooling4255 kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6vYio2fbJlsea8 "African-American finds the Orthodox Church": kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJ_If5dvitt2lck "A protestant learns about Orthodoxy": kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnachXeOlMmkhdE , kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYGzgXSnd96GftE The Holy Fire: kzbin.infof7pPHngZ5Gc?feature=share

[@raahustaja7267]

What he said about the two main values of Christianity was very touching. Woke makes suffering a performance and thus needs the fascists or so called far-right enemies around.

[@DF4Trap]

Amazing.

[@RodrigoJocilesFerrer]

Great speech and rationale! I also went through atheism and misunderstanding of Gospel and Christ's message.. .when I was young. Great achievements (faith in this case) usually don't have shortcuts and easy ways.

[@debibarrington4697]

I love Jesus and the cross for what they both did for me thru His shed blood there ..for those that this makes no sense I suggest you study and learn about it and as you learn Christ will become so real you'll know why He went freely to die there....love

[@deborahjoyvalentine6180]

Profound idea, Chistianity has cancelled itself, using hospitals example. I will be pondering how I can personally do something within my own "religion" as a Bible Believer

[@brianlynnthomas9881]

What a wrap-up! The last answer by Tom Holland was marvelous! The entire lecture was fascinating.

[@johnhaynes9910]

Excellent, particularly as I am halfway through reading 'Dominion :)

[@roslynquarrie6271]

Thank you it's sharable and very listenable love the way you sum it all up, and the message of salvation so easily misunderstood if not taken in with a childlike faith

[@zgobermn6895]

Tom Holland not only writes well, he also speaks well!

[@annemeyer6220]

I thoroughly enjoyed this, Tom. Wish you'd have it translated inro German and broadcast via KZbin here in Germany. 😊

[@KD400_]

Just learn English. I would learn German if I had to although I know some already

[@kingsleyperera9655]

My wife & two step daughters who were Budhdhists embraced Catholic faith upon Conviction !

[@jesuschrist3.146]

God bless u family

[@kingsleyperera9655]

@@jesuschrist3.146 Thanks & God Bless 🕇

[@R-rr1]

Watch Christian prince podcasts to strengthen your faith plus he’s funny

[@Truthseeker371]

Why Catholic? Not Jesus teaching?

[@alessandroluthi5770]

Halelujah my friend. The ultimate blessing and grace indeed. A man standing for his faith is the most important thing in a family, Godspeed.