EDISON LONG PLAY & KITTEN ON THE KEYS 1921 ZEZ CONFREY Diamond Disc Phonograph

[@DeLorean4]

If Edison had used his long playing records for classical music he could have directly competed with the Victor red seals and remained in business. Thanks for uploading this to youtube. Simply amazing stuff.

[@CD122344]

Also remember that Edison used a diamond needle while others were still using a steel point(which had to be changed often) well into the 1950s. Edison's competition could not figure out how he fused the diamond to the shank until his son Charles revealed it in the mid-1950s. Edison achieved micro-groove recording in the early 1910s some 40 years befor the LP

[@roybo1930]

This Phonograph play`s Beautifully! The Record sounds as if You were there with a tad of surface noise! This is Truly AWESOME!

[@scootron2000]

Edison was ahead of his time. That's the first time I heard a long playing Edison record. Even when I play an Edison record on a modern turntable with headphones, the sound is very good.

[@Moooperator]

WOW! more than just a machine playing... visually stimulating! And I didn't know the long plays were finer than the modern lp's! But I guess they would have to be since they play nearly 3 times as fast! Duh! Thanks!

[@BusterBodyCrab]

This is the coolest thing. Thanks for sharing it here.

[@TheValleyLocal]

Really enjoyed this video. I have an Edison H-19 in the oak finish and I also have this same record - one of my favorites. Your machine is absolutely gorgeous. I'm surprised you're selling it.

[@DaMadFiddler]

I originally came across this video last summer when I was researching different types of acoustic phonographs. Ended up getting a Victor Credenza instead of an Edison, but this video did introduce me to Zez Confrey. Thank you for that :)

[@sanfranphono]

@ShitFromShinolla Hey, actually it's neither linear tracking nor the first one. I forgot who - very early Sonora or Keenophone had a sideway travellign tone arm to avoid Victor patents. This is an old canard that Edison had a linear tracker - the whole assembly is still swinging around a pivot and making an arc, only, because the pivot is in the front, the arc is the other way around than a regular victrola.

[@rweerakkody4565]

love this record i mean these records edison is still best till today!!!!!

[@KawhackitaRag]

Thanks for the post! It's great to hear a nice fidelity version of this Confrey recording, thanks!!! And I'm sure had the Edison folks wised up and put some Beethoven symphonies, or Tschaikovsky, or something on their long-play records, they would have been hits!

[@johncarpenter624]

A very beautiful C model.

[@roybo1930]

The first time I heard "Kitten On The Key`s" was When a very Sweet Black Woman gave Me a large batch of Records from the early 1920`s My Record is be Via Palmer Piano Solo on a Regal 78! LOVE IT! The Long playing EDISON`S Are Cool! I Have a EDISON Diamond Disc with a 10 & 12 inch selector, But No Extra gearing! These are Beautiful Machines! I Also have a Strange Belt Driven Edison Diamond Disc Player! I am restoring it at present! The entire Works come out making the Strangest looking contraption I have ever seen! it a beautiful Cabinet! I wish I Had another set of works for display! This "Kitten On The Keys" Sounds a lot like Mine!

[@neilmansfield8329]

This is a great record player and record

[@mrmjb1960]

At 80 RPM,it was a pretty revolutionary Player for its time,and it is still amazing..to actually play over 30 minutes at that speed..WOW! I'm amazed!

[@edwincancelii2917]

Incredible!

[@sanfranphono]

@TheRiqzster You can see on many phonographs that the middle position of the speed regulator has a number - on Victor it was - I believe - 76 early, and the 78 in the 20s. Even though, actual speeds are all over the place, and it is assumed that many Vic records play at 76. But then if you look at the Caruso Discography, or use a pitch pipe to check the correct record speed, you'll find that there is no rhyme nor reason to actual speeds. Speeds were only really standardized in the early 1930s.

[@Schillingsanders]

I feel stunned! I thought i´ve seen and heared it all! Hint: Watch my cylinder player at "Edison cylinder concert" All the very best from silly Andy from Sweden.

[@sanfranphono]

@mattluvsvox921 Only records after 1930 play at 78 rpm, before that speeds were all over the place. Edison Diamond Discs always play at 80 rpm.

[@sanfranphono]

@mrmjb1960 Actually that's a bit of marketing obfuscation, the 10" record played about 12 mins per side, the 12" record 20 mins. so both sides = 24 mins/ 40 mins. OTOH, late Deutsche Grammophon/ Telefunken regular 78 rpm records with "Engschrift" (Variable groove) get about 10 - 12 minutes per side of a regular, standard groove record, so there are better ways to do it.

[@sanfranphono]

@scootron2000 They sound great on an electric turntable, even the long play records. The early laminated DD from 1912 - 1914, if they are not cracked, are astonishing. Curiously enough, the standard RIAA equalization perfectly boost the bass on those DDs. It always struck me that DDs do not sound really great on an Edison machine, they come to their own only with electric replay, but then there is of course the bad surface noise on many of them....

[@ajwindmeyer2272]

I HAVE KITTEN ON THE KEYS!!! it was my Great Grandmother Klines Edison record!

[@luvmyrecords]

WOW - you're too much! Thank you!

[@sanfranphono]

@darksound1973 That is understood, but it was on soft wax or metallic soap CYLINDERS. Pathe was the first one to use a jewel tipped stylus on hard shellac DISC records.

[@luvmyrecords]

I know that all the Edison DD sleeves admonished to keep the speed at 80rpm, but honestly, the pitch of my DDs at 78 is correct (ie. Harry Lauder's "Breakfast in Your Bed on Sunday Morning" matches the electric Victor, some Chopin piano pieces, "Good-bye Girls, I'm Through" matches the sheet music key, etc.)

[@hedablinka]

Interests: I've had a line of victrolas, I sold them all before the turn of the century. I did manage to find someone (and the parts) to have the playing head completely reworked/restored, new rubber seals etc; and of course the packets of new needles (about five plays per) were available--and that was before eBay. I also had an edison upright and an edison table cylinder player. The edison sound was better (the records were also less worn) but the music paled in interest. Go Victrola.

[@EmmetEarwax]

I have this very record along with a Ernie Jones & Billy Hare record as the two "hill & dale" records in my 78 shellac collection. Edison made them thick -HIS method to make them unbreakable. The flip side is "Monastery Bells Waltz". I just rooted it out and tested it on my stereo to be SURe that the hill & dale grooves would play -my other phonograph's speaker is bummed out.

[@sanfranphono]

@ShitFromShinolla Hey it may look that way, but the whole horn and tone arm pivots around the wooden handle at 5 o clock of the turntable. A linear tracker by definition is not mounted on a pivot, but slides laterally on a carriage. No, you hear that claim once in a while that the Edison DD machines had a linear or tangetial tone arm. Which is just not true. Tell someone to put a wax crayon at the soundbox, and trace the movement on a blank record. You'll see. Best

[@luvmyrecords]

@sanfranphono :) :) :) :) :) Oh - and THEN we have to deal with the fact that some modern turntables are a liiiiiittttttle fast (BSR was notorious) and the Garrard 120 a teeny bit slow. I'm going to just shut up now and just enjoy the music! BTW - thanks for a great video and the interesting information!

[@earlnut]

The Pathe Sapphire's were not fastened the way the Edison diamonds were. The sapphire point on the Pathe machines have a shaft on the back side that goes up into the shellac that holds them into place. And the Sapphires are huge compared to the diamonds used for the disk machines and the Amberola phonographs.

[@sanfranphono]

@TheRiqzster You are asking the question the wrong way: Speeds started out all over from 65 rpm for early Berliners, 100 rpm for early pathes, each company had their own "official" speeds (why the engineers still recorded faster or slower is an unsolved mystery, not to talk of records where the lathe speeded up or slowed down during recording). The story goes that with the advent of electric motors companies slowly standardized at 78.25, this was an easy gearing ratio with the motors

[@sanfranphono]

@Interests2009 Check your craigslist. Edisons phonographs turn up quite often, and if you are willing to put in some sweat equity, you can have a nice machine easily. Just remember, Edison Diamond Disc phonographs only play Edison Discs, not Victrola records.

[@sanfranphono]

Hm, wonder if you could find out what the secret process is. My understanding is that the diamond was nickel plated and then soldred to the stylus - that does not sound very difficult to me. BTW - they are cones, not balls. Nowadays, epoxy works just fine. Best

[@hyzercreek]

I used to have a C-19 in walnut. Yours was converted to play the LP records because mine didn't have that. The C-19 was Edison's best model.

[@soundbox7845]

@sanfranphono Even with the arc, to me the tracking error looks pretty small. At least a lot better than my Victor 3. I always wondered why Victor didn't attach the rear mount tone arms to where the front mount traveling arm was attached. Were the long play records dubbed because the cutter couldn't handle a live recording with so fine a groove?

[@sanfranphono]

Yeah, in the 50s they were able to monitor the volume level from tape and push the grooves closer together in quiet passages. Telefunken had "Fuellschrift" 78s with 12 minutes or more per side of a 78 record. RCA took up this idea with their Dynagroove process on 33s. But this was 1926, no one else (except perhaps the complex World Records) were able to get this much music on a 78 rpm record.

[@hyzercreek]

Most music ever on a side were the Seeburg 1000 records. 420 grooves per inch and 16 RPM gave 50 minute play time on each side of the 9 inch record

[@mgconlan]

I'd like to have heard the whole "Carmen" medley, but this is a great post anyway for the dynamite version of "Kitten on the Keys" by its composer, Zez Confrey. This 1921 piano solo version is WAY better than the familiar 1922 band record he made for Victor!

[@sanfranphono]

@CD122344 Oh, and Edison achieved long play records only in 1926. A failure from beginning to end: Live recording was impossible, so only dubbed records, the reproducing equiment was a crutch and would damage records after 2 or 3 plays. There was a reason why Edison pulled it from the market after less than a year. Again, "micro-groove" RECORDING is trivial, RCA had a working system in 1933. However, the REPLAY of mg records with a light reproducer was not really solved until after WW II.

[@sanfranphono]

@luvmyrecords Hm, that is pure luck, these videos I did before I had a pitch pipe. Oh boy, we are getting into the topic of historic pitches. I just assume that by 1920 they were pretty much using 440hz. Adelina Patti is assumed at 435 hz, and I only found one record (Clara Butt singing Land of Hope and Glory) where the British Brass Band still seems to be on the old British pitch. Honestly, it's an area I play rather stupid at 440Hz and let the experts savage each other : )

[@sanfranphono]

@luvmyrecords Well, the Garrards are slow because the oil in the motor and the bushing is gunked up. Well, if the BSR is a little too fast and if it's an idler wheel, try to put one or two windings of a sliver of scotch tape around the stepped pulley - > bigger diameter - > slower speed. It pays to have turntables with variable pitch, the DUALs 1200s are excellent, or you get a Garrard 4HF or RC98. (For these videos I do pitch correction in the computer : (

[@luvmyrecords]

@sanfranphono I agree and usually defer to the knowledge of experts - yourself included! - however, Rachmaninoff's "Prelude in C Sharp minor" comes out in that key on a 78 rpm turntable. However, the pitches (Carmen and Kitten) in this video are also correct, so if you're @ 80...well, I don't know what to say lol! To complicate matters further, A=440 wasn't necessarily always the standard even as recently as the '20s (I am a professional musician - playing older horns often can be a problem ).

[@EmmetEarwax]

I have a number of 50's 78s that can be called long-play. They play about 6-7 minutes/ side. and have 2-3 songs. I also have extended play 45rp's and the longest is 9 1/2 - 10 min/side. The 33rp record can play 30 min/side, at least.

[@earlnut]

CD122344 Is right, for years they couldn't figure out how Edison got those diamond balls to stick to the stylus. I think was was even later than the 50's when that one was figured out again. Edison did not patent that one because he didn't want the secret to get lost. And by the 30's it must not have seemed important anymore. I don't recall the part of Charles telling how to do it, but I know it wasn't until the later 70's before they could make those stylus's again for diamond disk's.

[@sanfranphono]

@luvmyrecords not what the experts say, whom I respect. They say invariably 80 rpm. Best way to test it is with a pitch pipe, if the instruments are playing on pitch.

[@sanfranphono]

@CD122344 Pathe already used permanent Sapphire styli on Pathe disc records starting 1905. I don't think there is any secret of attaching diamonds, they are simply nickel plated and then soldered to the stylus. Other companies stuck with steel needles for economic reasons: For edison to use diamonds - which are expensive and prone to chipping - he needed to develop records made from Bakelite - again very expensive. The softer shellac worked well with steel - much cheaper.

[@robfriedrich2822]

The Long Play had less sound quality, were in some cases done by single records. At least the first kind of Arcade/ K-tel record "more quantity". The concept of a long play record could work fine, when it was ensured, that the quality is the same or better and when tape was introduced in recording industries.

[@EtrofOnaip]

I have an 84t record !

[@gennettor8915]

Also, Hill-And-Dale Edisons were dubbed which didn't do much to the sound either....

[@theorganguy]

3:30 Kitten on the Keys

[@sanfranphono]

Yep, it's not a rare record. There's also an Orchestra version with Confrey at the piano on Victor Cheers

[@sanfranphono]

@DeLorean4 In theory, yes, but Edison's acoustic process was not good at all with classical orchestras. His recordings are all the usual studio band arrangements. And then - Edison could not record the full 20 mins directly, they were all dubbed from Diamond discs. Of the 14 or so Long Play titles, there is one record of dubs by German Violinist Carl Flesch. Indeed, the only multi record set that Edison ever offered (I think a Schubert Quartet) was recorded way towards the end of electric era.

[@zacharybowen4247]

0:58

[@DeLorean4]

@DeLorean4 Or rather I should say, complete recordings of classical music.

[@luvmyrecords]

@sanfranphono :) :) :) :) :) Oh - and THEN we have to deal with the fact that some modern turntables are a liiiiiittttttle fast (BSR was notorious) and the Garrard 120 a teeny bit slow. I'm going to just shut up now and just enjoy the music!

[@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648]

Well it's kitten on the keys, not robot on the keys, Zez

[@alexvaliansky7707]

Sound is on the tinny side.

[@sanfranphono]

@Interests2009 strike RCA, strike Mint: Victor and RCA only merged in 1929, and RCA-Victor did not make any good wind-ups. Also get away from "Mint" - that refers to cabinet condition, and is usually an exaggeration. What you are really looking for is a fully serviced machine with no mechanical issues. Check back here in about 4 weeks when I will be featuring several great wind-up suitcase victrolas. They are a great and inexpensive way to get a Victrola. Join a Victrola discussion group.

[@rufust.firefly2474]

there's nothing wrong with this recording of his es Contra playing kitten on the keys so I can't proceed a single mistake and I'm professional pianist I don't know why you say he has mistakes there's no mistakes I I don't know what you're talking about I listen to it 3 times over and it's it's perfect there's nothing wrong with it there's nothing wrong with it take there are no mistakes I don't know where your head is at the end with respect Ryan Stryker

[@sanfranphono]

yep. but that was not my point. Pathe used jewel tipped styli on disk records before Edison did by at least 7 years. Cheers

[@luvmyrecords]

@sanfranphono :) :) :) :) :)

[@sanfranphono]

Yep, the record started skipping after the third play. Several ounces of pressure and an awkwardly shaped diamond, not one of Edison's better inventions.

[@1970Dobby]

I Love Thomas Edison, but this hardly qualifies as a "Long Playing Record"! It's just ONE SONG, that lasts 20 plus minutes! It Is Nowhere near the TRUE LONG PLAYING RECORD... 33 &1/3RPM...where SEVERAL SONGS, can be played and heard! Sorry...Just My Opinion!

[@jaysvintagerecordsandphono6184]

They could have put several tracks on the record though and they actually did that for an Edison long playing demonstration record I think

[@jaysvintagerecordsandphono6184]

Ok so they never put several tracks on these long play records. I was getting confused with the Edison sample record which had five tracks and each track was the first minute of an Edison diamond disc record.