Belgian Beauties; The Renard Fighters

Barely remembered today, Belgian designer Alfred Renard came up with some fighter designs before World War 2 that had great potential. Alas, nothing came of them.
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[@rangefinder3538]

I have to ay Ed that you are becoming the "forgotten weapons" of aviation. Great job Ed I learn sp much from you.

[@Bearthedancingman]

YES I was thinking the same thing today.

[@falloutghoul1]

>Forgotten Weapons >Not Drachinifel

[@VikingTeddy]

That's actually Bis at Miitary Aviation History. But this is a close second.

[@TheIndianalain]

I'm Belgian, interested in aviation, and I had never heard of those planes, so a big thank you! Very typical belgian story though...

[@Zoydian]

4:19 Who else had a ''awwww" moment when spotting the little dog by the plane? :)

[@dylanmilne6683]

What gorgeous aircraft, they look like mixtures of various contemporary fighters.

[@anthonychappell9409]

The bubble like canopies on these aircraft look ahead of their time

[@RaduB.]

I had almost no knowledge about the Belgian air industry... These Renards didn't look too shabby at all!

[@roelantverhoeven371]

belgian air industry is many prototypes... few successes.... but the Stampe SV4 stands out ofcourse

[@Damorann]

@@roelantverhoeven371 That's quite sad to hear. I'm getting Avro Arrow vibes as a Canadian. Some good ideas are killed for all the wrong reasons.

[@Riccardo_Silva]

It looked like a thoroughbred fighter! What a beautiful and apparently sound project! After many long years of passion for aircraft i'd never heard about it: thank you Ed!

[@anthonyxuereb792]

You've never heard of it (neither have I) because we're always feed the same info, Spitfire, 109, Mustang etc.

[@Sophiedorian0535]

Belgian industrial designer here. Thank you very much.

[@patrickpanhuysen9618]

Nog een prachtig Vlaams design, de Rolls Royce Jonckheere

[@TheOldEuropean]

@@patrickpanhuysen9618 Was, strict genomen, geen vlaams design: Renard was een Waal...

[@MegaDxxn]

thanks for this beautiful overview. there is a nice corner in the Brussels airmuseum that honors the workplace of Renard and they are restoring a 31 model as we speak. the museum itself is a marvel of typical belgian conservation and eclectic collecting.

[@marcamant7258]

Renard was still active after WW2. He is a brilliant ingenieure: belgian mind. Thanks for this memorial

[@stejer211]

As a Belgian I have to ask you: what exactly is a Belgian mind?

[@marcamant7258]

@@stejer211 Not French not dutch not german not english; inventive, fair ,critical and free. At least. And please see all this through a positive way. Yesterday I was reading Simenon "le destin des Malou": always impressive his way of writing is so nervous or though he goes straight to the matter. Spend a long time Outremeuse Liègeand also Antwerpen. Best regards

[@stejer211]

@@marcamant7258 Excellent explanation, I recognize those properties. Thanks.

[@marcamant7258]

@@stejer211 A pleasure to share.

[@steveball2307]

Really love these forgotten corners of aviation.

[@orneryokinawan4529]

The 20s through 70s so much has been introduced in such a short time frame. The Golden age of aviation was in a way an arms race. My grandpa couldn't believe how fast prop driven were phased out to make way for jet aircraft in very short order.

[@johndavey72]

Another great find Ed. They were indeed very "Hawker" in design and build , possibly fragile but once again the war got in the way ! Thanks Ed. Think you've found gold with these oddities !

[@julianlockwood3040]

Thanks for posting. The R37 looks a lot like the FW190 prototype, and therefore years ahead of its time. I wonder if this influenced the German aircraft designers.

[@kellybreen5526]

R37 holy FW-190. Had to give it a double take... I wonder.....

[@EdNashsMilitaryMatters]

Lol indeed!

[@vaclav_fejt]

Focke-Wulf couldn't work out that way of engine cooling years later. I wonder indeed.

[@arno-luyendijk4798]

@@vaclav_fejt just what I also wondered.

[@arno-luyendijk4798]

With the R42 configuration, my thoughts went also in the direction of the Lockheed P38 Lightning.....maybe inspiration?

[@Retroscoop]

@@arno-luyendijk4798 sometimes, the same ideas surface in more or less the same period independantly from each other. Especially when there are not 36 solutions to things like increasing the range of a plane. The jet engine too was developped in three countries independantly.... (strangely enough not including the USA ?)

[@thegodofhellfire]

Another fantastic video Ed! You've quickly become one of my favorite KZbin channels!

[@EdNashsMilitaryMatters]

Cheers!

[@Kickback-dm7zt]

@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters can you do a video on the Fouga CM 170 Magister please.

[@pauldulworth2768]

The more I learn the more I realize I’ve got a lot to learn. It’s the stuff I learn after I think I know everything that counts. Thanks for providing my continuing education credits on aircraft.

[@BelgiumsFlyingPast]

An excellent description of the Renard fighter series, im planning to make a video on the R.35 soon.

[@groupcaptainbonzo]

Not usually a fan of “What Ifs” , but that was very amusing and informative. I knew nothing of these or the designer. Well done mate

[@Simon_Nonymous]

There's a lot about the first plane that shouts Hawker and Hurricane at me. And yes - you are up there with Drach and Ian McCollum!

[@Rafa-mp6xe]

In Belgium we had alot of potential projects that could change the Air Force.. SABCA S-47,48 Douglas DB7, Breguet Br 694. Also Renard were negotiating to licence build PZL P.37C

[@martentrudeau6948]

The Renard fighter reminds me of the Spitfire, it might have been a contender with the Merlin engine! They were good lookers.

[@bodamian_bg]

High class beauties indeed. And a very unfortunate timing.. Huge THANK U to Ed Nash's M M for the wonderful stories!

[@windborne8795]

I must say, just incredible! I am thoroughly impressed with your subject matter and dialogue. Thank you very much for introducing, for what I am sure is the majority of us, all of these absolutely lovely aircraft! You are providing a great service to all of these forgotten aircraft and the very rich history that accompanies them. Just brilliant sir! Please continue with your very impressive work. Godspeed my man! Cheers!

[@EdNashsMilitaryMatters]

Many thanks!

[@stevetournay6103]

That proto-F-82 is really startling. Another partially-Belgian subject that at one point was meant to result in a fighter, and incorporated cutting edge design elements, was the deMonge-Bugatti 100P. The only 100P actually built was a racer, which never flew, but which, astonishingly, still exists in an American museum; a subsequent flying replica of that aircraft was involved in a fatal crash about a decade ago. The intended follow-on fighter variant never left the drawing board. The 100P looks more like a jet than a 1930s piston engined machine; it's one of the most striking looking machines of that period or any other...

[@Corbalte]

Two things I always wondered were if the R-36 and R-38 performances took into accounts the modified radiator configuration for the former (wouldn't the quite big radiator mounted in front of the plane diminish performances ?) and if the promising performances of the latter took into account the 13,2 maching guns that would constitute its armaments ? I know there is a book in French on the R-36 propotypes, hope I can grab it someday. Still, those are such amazing aircraft that make me proud of my country. I hope I can fly them in a simulator someday (the R-38 as been considered on the War Thunder community forum for several years now, still hoping :,) )

[@SonnySoltero]

I remember an old law on airplane construction I learned at the university: If a plane looks beautiful and fast, it probably is or will be when it's finished.

[@pete5134]

Last time a chap was this early, Belgium was still insisting on its neutrality.

[@Retroscoop]

There's nothing wrong with being neutral. Ask the Swedes and even better, the clever Swiss.... But of course, if you have cheaters as Herr Hitler... Still, even he choose not to attack the Swiss, just to have a good look in what they were keeping in their bank vaults. All that unclaimed money, all that gold and those diamonds from executed or killed banana republic dictators etc. All that "black" money, those undeclared funds... (And maybe catch Allen W Dulles "en passant", playing OSS contact man... That, together with the fact that he never used chemical weapons remain two very surprising historic facts...

[@EVISEH]

@@Retroscoop Switzerland was never targeted by Hitler for one very simple reason. It was in effect the central European exchange for international funds and Germany, lacking the material resources needed to run and arm its military and therefore being forced to obtain such material from neutral or "friendly to Germany" nations [mostly the South American nations], the only way such purchases could be transacted was through the banking systems of other neutral countries of which Switzerland was one of the main ones.

[@whatthedeuce47d68]

They definitely looked the part, elegant shapes, pity they never saw production. Great vid as usual, thanks.

[@searchthetruth1981]

I like you re channel man....every time i thought i had known all ...just another beautiful fighter of the past shows up...

[@EdNashsMilitaryMatters]

;) happy to hear it.

[@stevetournay6103]

Rear three quarter view is very Yak-like. What a beauty.

[@bigblue6917]

Some very interesting aircraft here. Looking at the R-42 I could F-82 in it but my first thought was of the P-38 Lightning. Sitting the cockpit between the two fuselages with four 303s and four 20 mm would have been something of a surprise for the Germans.

[@McRocket]

You did it again. An aircraft type I had never heard of before. And highly attractive ones at that. Thank you.

[@MonkPetite]

Ed these look a lot like Russian fighters later in the war. Could it be a sample for them

[@matthewmoore5698]

I’ve been to Belgium, lovely people I had a great time

[@derf2170]

Oh Belgium you never fail to disappoint

[@iberiksoderblom]

The Germans f'd it up. For a lot of countries...

[@stejer211]

@@iberiksoderblom If it wasn't for the Germans, Renard never would have started designing warplanes...

[@TheOldEuropean]

@@stejer211 I so understand your point, but it should be mitigated: Renard was also looking to sell to overseas markets (Ed's video mentioned China briefly). Also, renard was already building and selling airplanes long before the rumours of war were spreading throughout Europe...

[@stejer211]

@@TheOldEuropean That's why I said warplanes and not airplanes...

[@wildancrazy159]

I am amazed at the beauty of these aircraft, and performance on par with war time airframes. Thank you for this vid, it makes you wonder just how far the designs could have been taken and what else this gent could have done.

[@TheShrike616]

*happy Belgian noises* Thank you, great video!

[@1joshjosh1]

Nice looking aircraft!. Thank you again for another interesting video.

[@garyhewitt489]

The impressive climb rate of the Merlin engined one would have been compromised with the extra weight added for service, radio armour self sealing tanks etc, but it still looks comparable with the best in 1939. The front end looks like the pigeon chested spits, the rudder and tail bears a resemblance to the hurricane. Another interesting subject thanks.

[@EdNashsMilitaryMatters]

Agreed. I think the projection and testing figures are optimistic. If any had reached service, theyd have been much heavier.

[@None-zc5vg]

The Renard fighter has the looks of a less-corpulent Hawker 'Henley'.

[@thewatcher5271]

Way To Go, Ed! You Sure Know How To Make The "What Ifs" Of Aviation Interesting. I Thoroughly Enjoy Your Mini-Documentaries. Thank You.

[@pabonismygod]

Gorgeous designs, indeed.

[@CH3TN1K313]

That cowling design on the R-37 looks striking similar to what Kurt Tank would go on to design for the Fw 190

[@roelantverhoeven371]

both used exhaust gas to generate some extra thrust

[@scooter2873]

Fantastic Job! Love the info on these obscure unknown jewels!!! Keep em coming Ed!! Good on you!!!!!!!

[@roelantverhoeven371]

in 1928 there also was the Renard Epervier, a parasol monoplane with a bristol 9 cylinder radial. 180 mph and fully metal monocoque fuselage.

[@stephenrickstrew7237]

Your so right…. They are quite beautiful Aircraft ..

[@inwedavid6919]

The last model look like so much of a FW 190

[@renemiller7082]

Best channel I have found in a long time.

[@michelbaguette3106]

Merci pour cette vidéo. Il y a si peu d'informations sur les avions Renard.👍👍👍🙂 Thank you for this video. There is so little information about the Renard planes.

[@EdNashsMilitaryMatters]

Mon plaisir, mon ami.

[@TheZerech]

These aircraft are some of my favorite unsung prototypes with lots of potential. Belgium was a bit arms exporter with FN, and was reasonably innovative in certain respects for small arms, but they did not respect air power or armored power, and despite building up a big and high quality infantry force, in 1939 they failed to put up much of a fight at all because of their poor planning and doctrinal conservatism. Armed with FN 13.2mm modified browning machine guns, whichever Renard fighter produced before the war would have probably been only 2nd the spitfire for allied fighters. I've always thought the R37 to be a very attractive aircraft, despite, or perhaps because of its unusual engine and cooling mechanism.

[@roelantverhoeven371]

failed to put up much of a fight? the battle of belgium was more than just eben emael you know... there's the chasseurs ardennais and the battle of the lys too

[@roelantverhoeven371]

oh and while belgium didn't have heavy or even medium tanks, the tank destroyers were unexpectedly (by the germans) devastating (T13 B and C) and they had tractor-towed artillery to reckon with. the belgian 105 mm howitzer had great precision and was adopted by the germans themselves. the Brossel 4x4 tractor/truck was one of the first miliary off road vehicles that had a good speed on the road as well. the germans were still pulling a lot of their cannon by horse or mule. i was in the air (and OBVIOUSLY on the sea) that Belgium was the most lacking... in the air the air force had biplanes and 11 hurricans (and 15 battles...) the "navy" had 9 armed trawlers that couldn't even intercept most freighters.. a fast gunboat, similar to a destroyer, was being built, Artevelde, she was captured by the germans while still building and used as Lorelei K4 in the kriegsmarine.

[@allandavis8201]

Considering that when these Renard designs were being tested and crashing the world was teetering on the precipice of war the spectre of sabotage would surly have been considered, especially as the designs that did get into the air were better or potentially better than some aircraft already in service. Personally I think that these designs were quite elegant and advanced for the time, and I wonder what might have been if they had made it to production where bugs and performance can really be refined and fine tuned. A very interesting documentary, and once again you have delivered a story that is well researched and very informative, I had heard of Renard but not to the extent you have managed to dig up about his designs, thanks very much indeed. 😀👍🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@Corbalte]

So happy to see those planes on KZbin !

[@peterboy209]

So many unknown well designed "what if" planes... intriguing!

[@BelgiumsFlyingPast]

3:28 the loss of the R.35 prototype was a result of pilot error, not because it was a faulty design. test pilot, George Van Damme, did not have permission to fly the aircraft on his own, as it was designed to be piloted by a 2-pilot crew. (source: Flight International, April 1975)

[@billdyke9745]

Not fast, but a great climb rate. A large wing, would be my guess. Another great 'what might have been'. They must have been a bit of a pig to land, the cockpit being so far behind the leading edge. Never heard of them. Thanks for the intro.

[@wrichardmorris]

Great stuff Ed, another WW2 aircraft I'd never heard of. Quite an attractive little plane as well...

[@mickolszewski2520]

Seems that a few of the planes look like other models, representing the "SPiTFiRE, & The FOLKWOLF 190, & The Commercial Plane Had Hints Of JUNKERS, IRON AN ANNY", Just Saying, A Slight Glimpse Of Things To Come, & Maybe The 190 Took Attributes From The Belgium's.? Love The INFO MR. NASH.! Thanks A Lot.! !

[@sapiotone]

Some nice, ‘foxy’-looking aircraft here, compared to the recent flying munters 😂 If only they’d managed to get the test models over the channel!

[@janetmuskett3210]

The R37 does have the look of a Focke Wulf!!!

[@ModelMinutes]

Another fascinating subject!

[@brendonbewersdorf986]

If at all possible could you cover the Avia B-534? It's a fairly cool aircraft being part of one of the last generation of biplane fighters and actually saw some combat with minor nations in WW2

[@EdNashsMilitaryMatters]

One day. So many to cover :)

[@brendonbewersdorf986]

@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters take your time I love your work I look forward to whatever else you have in store for us :)

[@kez0o9]

Those are some interesting designs, they all have elements of the top fighters of ww2, the first one reminds me of a "hurricane and Russian fighters wings, the second a 190 with a bit of la 5 and the third a dora190 /spitfire hybrid, I wonder if Kurt tank ever saw any of these designs but I would think the 190 was already on the way by then .intresting video

[@ErikViktor]

Great story. Incredible how much the fighter looks like the P-51 Mustang ! What happened to Alfred Renard after the Germans occupied Belgium? Did he work with the Americans? Could it be that he worked on the P51? There is no mention in the Video about what happened to him? Otherwise amazing piece of history . Thank you.

[@marclaplante5679]

The R-37 looks very much like the first Fw 190 proto-types. The initial prototype Fw 190 had a very large prop cowling, just like the R-37. Not sure if just coincidental or if this may have filtered down the designers at Fw.

[@medic7698]

Yet another really interesting video. Thank you.

[@bassmith448bassist5]

Love your content!!! Liked and subbed. I've never seen a lot of these planes.

[@jimdavis8391]

Very informative, I like to think that I am fairly knowledgeable about aircraft, you have proved me wrong!

[@ohgosh5892]

Having read through the comments, I conclude that most people think every WW2 single engined fighter looks like every other one, to somebody.

[@Spey_Phantom]

if if was developed faster and sooner, it could have given de Bf109E and the Spifire Mk.I a run for theyre money.

[@kiereluurs1243]

English please.

[@roybennett6330]

so true ,another 18 months could have made a big difference..not only for planes but from what I understand a whole bunch of milltary equipment from both Belgian and French.

[@user-1281]

@@kiereluurs1243 If it was developed faster and sooner, it could have given the Bf109E and the Spitfire Mk 1 a run for their money. I think the comment is pretty readable, with only one or two mistakes. (I may have missed/ made some mistakes)

[@mrwhite1368]

Most Belgian Hurricanes were destroyed on the ground during an air raid on Schaffen. The Renards would've, presumably, undergone the same fate. And if this wasn't the case, their airfield would've been overrun in days as what happened to the rest of the Belgian airforce. But a really interesting start for a what if scenario.

[@Voske135]

@@mrwhite1368 the Belgian airfields that where treatend with getting overrund where abandond and the airforce moved to a another airfield. one group fought until france surrenderd and these where fiat cr42 falco

[@KitKabinet]

More tasty planes that should have been. Imagine that being lineup of Renards instead of Hurricanes. One can only wonder how they would have performed. Looking forward to the next instalments, there are still so many unusual planes to cover. Keep 'em coming!

[@barryhopkins4765]

The R37 looks like the folk wolf 190

[@stevetournay6103]

Front end of the 37 reminds me of a CAC Boomerang.

[@roelantverhoeven371]

the Stampe SV4 and the SV5 are also interesting belgian planes ;p

[@brittboyette8617]

That was one good looking line of fighter aircraft. I wonder if anyone ever did drawings of them?

[@cliffwoodbury5319]

looks like if things turned out a little different this Renard guy would have been one of the best designers after WW2.

[@engineermerasmus2810]

Renard planes just looked so damn fast

[@randypowell3180]

I don't know about the R37 disappearing in to history. It bears a striking, better yet. Very strong resemblance to the Fw 190. Just compare pictures of the two prototypes side by side. It certainly looks like the Germans liked the design. I am going to say that the R37 was reborn in the guise of the Fw 190.

[@joeschenk8400]

Very interesting again....I'm getting use to this!

[@drstevenrey]

Belgium, the country invented for the Germans and the French to sort out their differences. Joke aside. Look at that thing. Totally beautiful. Very sleek and very nice to look at. If it looks right it flies right too.

[@searchthetruth1981]

If i could JUST get some hands on blueprints or original building plans of a certain past ww2 fighter....it would be a pleasure and an oth to rebuild a beautiful ww2 fighter plane...and then there s a lot of difference of choice It staggers me there were much more fighters around in the time of being Even more models then most people ever known.. . Big names always hit the tibune But the even less popular names or not so known models are even more intresting!! But just like i said before...getting blueprints in original state must probably be verry difficult If i would have money as water i would build a museum with only ww2 fighter replica s with EVERY model in the ww2 area....!

[@Retroscoop]

Why do I have to learn here, by a non-Belgian about Belgian aviation history... I knew the name, but wasn't aware the 38 outperformed the Spitfire and Me 109 in some aspects, nor that Renard came up with that idea of a twin body before this was done with the Mustang or before the father of the SR 71 and U 2, C.K. Johnson introduced the Lightning... Too bad not one of these planes was preserved, it would have been the star attraction in the beautiful collection of the airplane division of the Brussels Armed Forces museum...

[@richarddyson4380]

Ed, I’m sure you meant Hawker Fury Mk 2, not Fairey Firefly ;-). Great videos mate.... the Mark Felton of aviation history on KZbin.

[@skycook904]

No, it's a Fairey Firefly. Different structurally and dimensionally to Hawker Fury. Not to be confused with the later naval fighter with the same name. Just look it up.

[@kl0wnkiller912]

I wonder if the the R-42 had any influence on Willy Messerschmitt when he created the BF-109Z... Germany built one -Z and another in construction when the factory suffered an air raid and both aircraft were damaged beyond repair. Rumors abound that the completed one flew at least once and performance was excellent but there are (as far as I have managed to read) no records of the flight, just heresay from German engineers. Great video. As model builder I would love to see some model kits of these machines.

[@koenc9806]

At the time no company in Belgium designed and built aircraft engines. The Hispano engine was a logical choice, as the company could supply engines in numbers, but this raised concerns with the British and French as the Hispano was really a license-built German engine. So in the end, both Gnôme-Rhone and Rolls-Royce supplied one engine for use in prototypes. Which is how the two other prototypes got their engines. It is questionable whether France or UK would ever have agreed to supplying engines in numbers as they needed them for their own air forces.

[@user-lg4mm3mf8i]

Ah, the Renard fighters. Indeed great 'What if's". They look very promising on paper. The whole story of the Belgian Aéronautiqe Militaire is very sad. The Belgian airfields were vulnerable to early airstrikes. The old planes were no match and the new ones were not yet available in decent numbers.

[@barneybetelgeuse6273]

Nice looking planes though. Good work mate 👍

[@guaporeturns9472]

Looks like a Yakicane with bubble canopy

[@kez0o9]

Yes

[@gregoryemmanuel9168]

No you’re wrong, it’s a HurriYak

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@gregoryemmanuel9168🙂

[@JeffLeChefski]

Where do you dig up this stuff?I love it! You should check into some of the Canadair designs in the 1950's.

[@elennapointer701]

How the heck do you keep finding these obscure little gems??

[@dougsteel7414]

That r36 one has a very British look to it

[@PaulieLDP]

Nice planes, planes like this could get some love by being added to games like War Thunder for people to enjoy.

[@tomjustis7237]

There may not be any 'documentation' regarding the Germans evaluating the R-37, but when I look at that picture at 5:53 the first thing that comes to mind is 'FW-190'. Direct copy? Of course not, but it would greatly surprise me if the Germans DIDN'T use SOME of the R-37s concepts when designing the 190. After all, a lot of German 'documentation' on many different things didn't survive the war.

[@garnix5612]

The look like better designs than the Bf-109s of the same period. Much better view and good performance.

[@Zorglub1966]

Anything was better than the MS406.

[@redlioness6627]

That R36 looks like a Fairey Firefly with a monoplane wing, it makes it look exactly like the Hurricane which incidentally was just the fuselage of and older bi-plane aircraft with a monoplane wing, these similarities cannot be purely coincidental right?

[@dhy5342]

That propeller at 5:29 looks like it should be twice as big.

[@englishpassport6590]

The R37 looks a lot like an early FW190 prototype if it was as good as was claimed it would have given the more adventuous German aircraft engineers such as Kurt Tank of Focke Wulf a potent reappraisal of the potential of using well streamlined and high powered radial engines for future fighter aircraft designs...

[@hazchemel]

Pretty planes, including the Fairey Firefly

[@Barabel22]

Is anybody at 4:45 getting FW190 vibes from the R37?