EDWARD VIII and the Modern WELSH REGALIA

[@cathaloneill504]

Thank you for consistently delivering videos of the highest quality and excellence. I always look forward to watching your content.

[@allanbarton]

My pleasure, thank you for your kind feedback.

[@jonathonfloyd5757]

Prince Charles' coronet was certainly a product of the 1960s! I will say, I think it's more beautiful in person--maybe the photos don't do the diamonds justice. In any case, I'm glad those stylistic choices seem to have been a phase that we all collectively moved on from.

[@robertl6196]

Well said.

[@MrBulky992]

Yes, a bit like Basil Spence's ghastly tower blocks in the Gorbals in Glasgow, thankfully eventually reduced to rubble. Perhaps the coronet should have gone in a similar way.

[@sugarplum5824]

I remember vaguely watching the ceremony in my grandmother's kitchen as a little girl but didn't really take notice of the coronet until decades later. It really was quite ghastly! 😂 I seriously doubt that any future princes will ever want to wear it again.

[@MrBulky992]

@@sugarplum5824 Not only was the coronet of questionable design but it was complimented by a hat worn by the late Queen which was one of the worst fashion choices of her reign. I watched the ceremony in the school hall with hundreds of other pupils on what was then, by the standards of the time, a large television screen (perhaps 32 inches?). The image which has stuck is the white, blurred blob on her majesty's head, a bizarre creation, which, in close-up, looked like something from ancient Egypt, reminiscent of Cleopatra. George V had worn a naval uniform in 1911 but the option of military dress was presumably not considered appropriate (for a female, before Princess Anne who has made this her signature look in recent decades) and the Queen was dressed in "civvies" with an accompanying handbag alongside her son who was in his ceremonial robes.

[@sugarplum5824]

@@MrBulky992 So many of the "mod" fashions of the 60s and 70s were of dubious design.

[@julzy3]

I didn't hate Charles' coronet until I saw the beautiful one that Edward wore. (at 5:17). It is so elegant and delicate. That amethyst ring is incredible. Thank you as always for all you do.👑🙏

[@ChazzyB-2024]

I have to disagree with most of your commenters(?) and say I like the coronet made for the then Prince Charles. It is very much a period piece, as opposed to a mock medieval job, and shows a lot of wit and joy reflecting a fairly interesting time in our design history. I especially like the 'Fleur de Leeks' interspersed with the crosses which remind me of some of the work at the wonderful, and equally of its period, Coventry Cathedral. Hey ho. The chairs that were made for the guests are pretty good too. I do like the stuff made for Edward too, especially the dragons.

[@MrBulky992]

The monarchy and the position of Prince of Wales are survivals from the medieval period so it is fitting for designs of new regalia to fit with the style of other regalia from past periods. Modern, avant garde interpretations look embarrassing and jarringly incongruous in traditional settings. I feel the same about strange-shaped ceremonial maces such as the one at the Scottish Parliament and the unfortunate crown spire on the tower of Linlithgow's medieval church which reminds me of this coronet. Note Dame in Paris has had a lucky escape as the timescales for its rebuilding have knocked on the head all the modernistic madcap schemes to spoil it that were coming forward! I take issue with the term "mock medieval" for exquisitely crafted objects and architecture done to perfection in revived styles from the past.

[@danielgeorge7802]

Well. Not quite strictly accurate. Thoughts nonetheless.......​@MrBulky992

[@saraross8396]

That coronet looks like it's from a sci-fi movie, as something the king of an alien planet would wear.

[@pattycoe7435]

It, at the time seemed laughable and time hasn’t changed this. I speak as a person who is one month and 2 weeks older than he. I couldn’t believe his mother didn’t counsel him way from choosing this abomination.

[@user-ho7mg9ol7w]

​@@pattycoe7435He didn't choose it, neither did his mother. The Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths commissioned Louis Osman to make it and presented it to Charles on the day of his investiture as a gift from the nation.

[@scottgarver5782]

Many of us felt cheated of witnessing the spectacle of William and Catherine wearing their Prince and Princess of Wales coronets, respectively, at the Coronation of King Charles III.

[@christinesuccop1812]

I agree

[@jec1ny]

Aye.

[@ianrobertson2282]

I agree and the Peers were not permitted to wear their coronets and coronation robes either.

[@Carolina-Cromwell-I]

@@ianrobertson2282 An atrocity is what that all was there. Only my opinion though. That's why it didn't look like a Coronation but some sort of odd wedding. Then you have Camilla's Maids of Honour even saying, "Oh we felt like it was a wedding and she was the bride". Tsk Tsk. 😂

[@simongarthwaite7695]

Wait till Williams coronation that will be nothing like his father's and I fear not in a good way.

[@rhiannonpoole6019]

I love your regalia videos, all those jewels! Isn't it interesting how dated the modern coronet worn by Charles looks now - I suppose in 500 years it will look OK. I remember that investiture very clearly, they all looked very awkward we thought, but then we were the oppressed welsh peasants!

[@williamevans9426]

'Same here!!

[@jilltagmorris]

What a treat to see another episode from you! ❤❤❤❤

[@allanbarton]

Thank you Jill.

[@TyrSkyFatherOfTheGods]

An electroplated table-tennis ball? O, how the mighty have ping-ponged!

[@stepps511]

😂

[@user-ho7mg9ol7w]

The original one was solid gold and had the constellation Scorpio engraved on it. Unfortunately it was too heavy for the Coronet and wouldn't stay attached, which is why they replaced it with the ping pong ball that has the same amount of diamonds around it as the constellation.

[@deborahsims201]

It’s spacey. First time to see it close up. I love it! The diamonds are great, Scorpio

[@lysem4392]

True, there are space age references there. Definitely of the Star Trek era! I do like the square settings of the diamonds.

[@pheart2381]

I have always disliked the coronet the current King wore when he was made Prince of Wales. So ugly, and lacking gravitas actually.

[@allanbarton]

It is utterly monstrous, entirely at variance with the tradition. I did write a comment to that effect in the script, but then thought better of it.

[@nokomarie1963]

Well, I enjoy googie architecture, but a googie coronet?

[@joshuafess4295]

I hate to say it, but I agree it looks like a gold spiky thorn helmet for Charles and it also did nothing for his ears 👂🏼

[@joshuafess4295]

I hate to say it, but I agree it looks like a gold spiky thorn helmet for Charles and it also did nothing for his ears 👂🏼

[@jec1ny]

Agreed.

[@robnewman6101]

Beloved Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland. ❤

[@stepps511]

Your videos are always informative, entertaining, and fun, Allan. Thank you!

[@iermanicus]

Thank you have a great Sunday Dr Barton!!!!

[@allanbarton]

Thank you, you too!

[@JangianTV]

Excellent as always, thank you!

[@allanbarton]

My pleasure!

[@chriscarr4984]

Excellent as always. I have the miniature sets of the Welsh regalia, but can someone remind me.....I know the crowns are in The Tower of London, including King Charles's modern version, but where is the sword, ring and sceptre at the moment. I have a feeling it is at St James Palace but they were thinking of moving them to Wales. I could be wildly off the mark of course. Thank you Alan, just what we need to cheer us all up. A set of regalia to often overlooked.

[@allanbarton]

I think they may well be in the jewel house in the Tower at the moment - but it is such a long time since I went there that I can't confirm. They were in the National Museum of Wales for a time, and then were brought back to London.

[@chriscarr4984]

I've just watched one of those naughty videos taken of the crown jewels from the travelator and the sceptre is there with the Prince of Wales crowns. Now time to track down The whereabouts of the Duke of Windsors coronet.

[@allanbarton]

That's nice to know. It is surprising the 1911 coronet is not on show, but I suppose it has been replaced as 'working' regalia for want of a better word.

[@chriscarr4984]

​@@allanbarton silly me The Duke of Widsor wore a Diadem not a coronet, according to articles.

[@allanbarton]

@@chriscarr4984 yes that is true - though it is a coronet I suppose in so much as it is a little crown.

[@educanassa100]

Thank you, Allan

[@a24-45]

Prince Charles is said to have been impressed and moved by his investiture ceremony in Wales; however not so Prince Edward at his in 1911. Edward is reputed to have not enjoyed the ceremony, and apparently, in true teenager style, he hated having to wear the pageboy-like "medieval-style" tunic look, especially the tights-like satin breeches and silk stockings. (He was a naval cadet at the time so no doubt his shipmates couldn't resist ribbing him about it.) He had to start by walking in procession through the crowds to the podium without the velvet robe on, so the short tunic-plus-tights outfit really stood out (see the Pathe video). Heaven only knows what he thought of his Garter outfit, which he had worn only a month earlier at his father George V's coronation 15:52. It's worth looking up the full length photo, in order to appreciate the contrast: the Renaissance-style excess of this costume in all its puffery, the like of which has not been seen amongst the Knights and Ladies of the Garter since - massive shirtsleeves dripping with lace, convoluted breeches, and ginormous puffy rosettes, even on his white satin shoes. In comparison, his sister's dress in the same photo, which one might expect to be nearly as sumptuous, is, by the standards of the day, quite understated.

[@christopherwiles9097]

Fascinating. I expect Prince William will not have an investiture as Prince of Wales. Ordered my calendar lol

[@allanbarton]

Thanks Chris, I don't think we will ever see one again. That's lovely, I much appreciate the support and I'm sure you'll like it.

[@lysem4392]

​@@allanbartonI suspect you are right, Dr. Barton, about this institure ceremony probably disappearing for good. I naively expected there would be one for Prince William, but it didn't happen. I wonder how the people of Wales feel about that - good, bad, indifferent?

[@rachelkennedy2161]

Thank you Allan ❤

[@williamevans9426]

Thank you, Dr Barton, for another informative presentation. I wonder why it was deemed appropriate for HM The King's investiture coronet, as Prince of Wales, incorporated his star sign? I'd have thought that, as future head of the Church of England, such a motif would have been considered the antithesis of the symbolism that ought to have been used! By the way, can anyone shed any light of the fate of the broad crown worn by Charles II in the state portrait shown at 12:08? Many thanks.

[@danielgeorge7802]

I'm fairly certain it is discussed on one of The Antiquary's other videos. Briefly though; is it not the same,though slightly remodelled, St Edward's crown. Worn once only by the sovereign at the point of coronation

[@williamevans9426]

@@danielgeorge7802 Many thanks, Mr George; I'll look for that earlier video.

[@user-ho7mg9ol7w]

​@@danielgeorge7802That's the original St Edward's Crown from the coronation of Charles II. The arches were pulled up possibly after the damage caused by Colonel Blood when he tried to steal the Crown Jewels.

[@JJMHigner]

I hope you might be able to cover what william will be wearing at his investiture, if or as he has one.

[@allanbarton]

He’s not going to have one, which is a sensible move.

[@TerryC69]

Hi Allan! Thanks to you, I think some of my friends think I am an antiquary. LOL!

[@allanbarton]

Thank you Terry - lovely to hear from you, I do hope all is well. I am glad to have helped in that respect!

[@maryrowe1504]

Charles crown looks like something from Star Wars or maybe Game of Thrones. Nevertheless electro forming allows creation of nice sized statement jewelry pieces without the weight or expense of solid pieces.

[@EarlyMusicDiva]

If one is created for William, I wonder if it will be 3D printed! :)

[@lexxivexx]

​@@EarlyMusicDiva I know you jest, but I hope not. The 1911 crown is so lovely, it would be nice to see it associated with someone besides Edward VIII.

[@EarlyMusicDiva]

@@lexxivexx You're right, I was joking :D I agree, the 1911 coronet is lovely and I'd love to see William wear it. And George after him. :)

[@claudinehale-woods]

Thank you for your very interesting videos, I have to learn a lot as I am an "alien" from Switzerland who married an Englishman. Please allow me just to say that we pronounce the S of "Fleur de lyS" in French. (Also, "lit", pronounced "li" ...is a "bed") . What I remember of this ceremony, is that Prince Charles had made the effort to learn Welch and that since, he has been very helpful and faithful to Wales.

[@BMW7series251]

Thanks so much for this very interesting video. Your videos are getting better & better! Regards, John.

[@allanbarton]

Thank you John.

[@jjrevab1118]

Interestingly, Edward VIII, as Prince of Wales, made a donation that is still relevant today. In 1925-1926 he gave a trophy to the National Hockey League. Currently, the trophy is given to the team winning the Eastern Conference, who will then participate in the Stanley Cup Finals. The original trophy is still in use, and will soon by a century old. While almost all hockey fans know about the trophy, not too many are aware of the donor!

[@lysem4392]

I remember the 1969 investiture. Unfortunately what drew my attention was not was was on then Prince Charles' head; it was what was on Queen Elizabeth's, one of millinery's most unfortunate creations. It remains my most vivid recollection of this entire ceremony.

[@jackmorrison7379]

Oh my. That 1969 crown is very much of its time, and for that matter so is Her Majesty's headgear. Well at least the robe looked fresh and new. The future King looks distinctly uncomfortable.

[@aileenbuckle8062]

Yet again you've given us another informative, quality video Allan. A side question though- where does your intro and outro music come from? It always makes me give a little foot tippy tap, so I was wondering if there is a full length version somewhere. Thanks once again

[@danielkarmy4893]

You see, I never understood what people have against Edward - but for his wise decision in late 1936, our nation would have laboured through thirty-six years burdened with an insufferable, pompous, chauvinist pig for a King...and the language of this video would have been German... [edited, in true 'Just A Minute' fashion, to correct my schoolboy error: repetition of 'suffer'! 'Laboured' sounds much better.]

[@allanbarton]

He certainly wasn't up to the task!

[@wfcoaker1398]

England dodged a bullet when he gave up the throne of England for a harsh American tart who emotionally abused him for the rest of his life. He was a Nazi sympathizer.

[@whatsupdoc1075]

Why was no coronet made or used to go before the current Prince of Wales at the most recent Coronation? Thanks Dr Barton for another great video. Can you do one about the regalia of the Spanish royal family? ❤

[@jardon8636]

please could you do a video about prince arthur and his chapel at worcester cathederal... including his cousin the son of the tudor welsh magnate, sir rhys ap thomas of carew, dinefwr castles,,,

[@thomassbowmann]

Is the open coronet of E8 on display somewhere? Or is it tucked away deep in the RCT?

[@allanbarton]

Tucked away I understand - which is rather a shame.

[@thomassbowmann]

@@allanbarton Ahh damn. The name “honours of the principality of Wales” conjures up thoughts of the Honours of Scotland which are proudly displayed as a symbol of Scotlands heritage as part of the Kingdom of Great Britain. Would be nice to have the same for Wales?

[@Carolina-Cromwell-I]

@@thomassbowmann It would but the name of it would trigger some. Some Welsh people don't like the fact that the British heir to The Throne is titled Prince of Wales as they are English rather than Welsh, and some dislike the significance of the history of the English conquest over Wales which it symbolises as well.

[@thomassbowmann]

@@Carolina-Cromwell-Itrue, although i feel a set of national regalia to wholly represent Wales would be nice?

[@Carolina-Cromwell-I]

@@thomassbowmann Yes, it would. But it would not be truly Welsh as the Scottish regalia is with a history that precedes the union with England. The Scottish regalia has a truly Scottish history.

[@jec1ny]

I gather that King Charles has decided to do away with the investiture ceremony for the PoW as there has been no discussion of any for Prince William that I am aware of.

[@allanbarton]

As I said in the video such a public investiture wasn't traditional in any case, dating only from 1911. We won't see another again, and I don't think that is a bad thing.

[@melkin3549]

As a Welsh person, I support the British monarchy and I think Wales should always be part of the UK. However, I am very glad that there will be no more Prince of Wales investiture and would prefer the title went altogether. I think it only reminds us that the royal family have little to do with us really.

[@MrBulky992]

​@@melkin3549You should be thanking your lucky stars that you do not live in York or Sussex where the incumbents of those titles, in contrast to William, have not covered themselves in glory. Let us not forget that Andrew is also Earl of Merioneth but seldom uses the title!

[@pedanticradiator1491]

​@@MrBulky992 Prince Philip and briefly Prince Charles were Earls of Merineth. Andrew's earldom is that of Inverness he does not hold a Welsh title

[@SteveClark-ob1kj]

@@melkin3549 Well, there was that fellow Henry Tudor a.k.a. Henry VII so there is Welsh blood in the royal family.

[@trenoweth]

Thanks!

[@allanbarton]

Thank you!

[@SmilefortheJudge]

I love this channel. Reminds me why we don’t invest in the gash lil first born like a backward dark age society. I love going to sleep to these tho. Great work. 😎🥰🌙🧗‍♀️🤸‍♂️🪂😴💤

[@simba6698]

what's up with the tiny crowns/coronets that the women wore?

[@chuckspoke]

Young Edwards was a handsome fellow in his youth. Trying to see where his physical attributes came from. He and his siblings look nothing like their parents in my opinion.

[@wcfheadshots240]

What is the use of the "rod"?

[@dmvtrekscifichick6505]

How are Peers earls, dukes, etc. invested nowadays? What is the ceremony? And what does the monarch give them?

[@allanbarton]

Nothing now, as no new earls or dukes are ever created. The last investiture was in 1621, peers are simply introduced to the House of Lords.

[@dmvtrekscifichick6505]

@@allanbarton That must be disappointing for the new peers!

[@Carolina-Cromwell-I]

@@dmvtrekscifichick6505 Well, they are not hereditary peers any longer from what I can see based on what Allan said, just life peers who sit in The House of Lords, so it is basically a parliamentary honour now with a function rather than an honour granted by the monarch at his or her discretion except for their own family members.

[@dmvtrekscifichick6505]

@@Carolina-Cromwell-I The last nonroyal hereditary peerage was Harold Macmillian (according to wikipedia) so he just got a letter in the mail that said "Hey Dude we made you an Earl! Congrats!" That seems so disappointing.

[@Carolina-Cromwell-I]

@@dmvtrekscifichick6505 Interesting. What year was that?

[@Anubis81]

Do you think William was privately invested with these at Windsor or wherever?

[@pedanticradiator1491]

No he has never had an investiture

[@robnewman6101]

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👑🇬🇧

[@Sammy1234568910]

I wonder if we will see Prince William invested as Prince of Wales in Caernarfon Castle?

[@pedanticradiator1491]

I doubt it

[@Carolina-Cromwell-I]

No. It was announced way back when he was made Prince of Wales that they would not do that ceremony again. Plus, at this point, it would be kind of silly. He paid his homage as POW to The King over a year ago and has been POW for over 2 years. It's not like Charles who became POW at the age of 10 and then had his investiture 11 years later.

[@davidvilmin3457]

What is the coronet of E8 you all are talking about?

[@allanbarton]

I don't refer to a coronet of Edward the 8th, but to his coronet as Prince of Wales. However, had I referred to him as Edward Prince of Wales throughout the video, people may not have known who I was talking about!

[@MrBulky992]

I am still very confused about the whereabouts and existence of the two coronets used by the Prince of Wales in 1911 and which of those two coronets remained in the possession of the Duke of Windsor after his abdication from the throne. The Wikipedia article on the "Honours of Wales" states that it was George V's PoW coronet (the one with the arch) from the 1902 coronation (worn by Edward, PoW at the 1911 coronation) which was purloined by the Duke and subsequently returned after his death. This claim conflicts with the information in the video here. No mention is made of the whereabouts today of either of those coronets. The article says that the 1911 sceptre and the modern 1969 coronet are on display at the Tower of London. Do the 1902 coronation coronet (with arches) and the 1911 investiture coronet (no arches) still exist, where are they now, which one was taken to France by the Duke of Windsor and can either or both be seen by the public?

[@allanbarton]

Never trust Wikipedia, it and most accounts on this subject on the internet are wrong, for they appear to conflate the two coronets. The 1911 investiture coronet went with the Duke of Windsor - who (correctly) considered it his own property as it was made for him. The 1902 coronet of George V remained in the Royal Collection. The 1911 coronet was discretely returned sometime after 1972. Both are now in the Royal Collection as evidenced by the photos I shared in this video. Neither are or have ever been on public display. My information comes from the Royal Collection’s catalogue, which can assume is authoritative! One thing the dreadful wiki article gets right is that the 69 coronet and the sceptre are on display in the Jewel House.

[@user-ho7mg9ol7w]

All three are on display at the Tower of London in the jewel house, along with the sceptre and ring

[@kaspar_1982]

To many Welsh people Caernarfon castle is a symbol of invasion, oppression, and cultural degradation. the feelings of the Prince of Wales title at the time ran from indifference to hatred of the utmost intensity. Edward 8 should have been married to a Welsh girl of provable pedigree on the very night of his investiture although the assumption of the title i suppose would be considered the forced Droit du seigneur of the entire land. at least it might have saved Edward the loss of his future crown to the American Slattern Simpson.

[@imperiumbrasiliae]

Charles's coronet is a peasant coronet

[@gegemec]

neither ... nor; either ... or

[@iainmulholland2025]

The modern one worn by Charles looks hideous. Why not copy the earlier style?

[@Colourmad314]

Why ?……being a chance to design for 1969 not 1769…..such a shame that aspic is added( usually by English or non British/ Commonwealth people)

[@stevejones2052]

Edward's coronet is absolutely beautiful. Charles' on the other hand is the ugliest piece of regalia I've ever seen.

[@meiriongwril9696]

Cymru Rydd - does dim angen Tywysog seisnig arnom!!

[@allanbarton]

To be fair England hasn’t had an English prince since the eleventh century.

[@nickabbott6278]

Many thanks for your work Allan. My question, could you cover in a future piece why, crowns become fragile? If they sit on a shelf and aren't used for 1-200 years, how do they become fragile?

[@MrBulky992]

I have often wondered that. The crown of Scotland is never worn because, I read, it has become "too fragile". Similarly the Scottish sceptre is too fragile as is the recently replaced Sword of State. Does that mean that we can expect the St Edward's Crown which is its junior by about a century to become too fragile for use in coronations in 100 years' time. Cannot crowns be repaired and maintained so they do not become fragile?

[@user-ho7mg9ol7w]

​@@MrBulky992I think it a) depends on what they're made of and b) definitely the maintenance of the objects. Don't forget the Honours of Scotland were locked in a chest for centuries until found by Sir Walter Scott, while St Edward's Crown has been looked after a lot better by the different Crown Jewellers