EFAP #22 - Responding to Jack Saint/Eric Taxxon - "Long Critique Is Not Deep Critique" - Part 1

[@FutchCassidy]

You talk a lot about _length..._ But have you considered *girth?*

[@spykathir]

Thank you

[@duncanmcokiner4242]

We do know Jack took thrust into account.

[@Gamsterjeff600]

A downward thrust perhaps?

[@GoblinKnightLeo]

I did like it when Mauler made that joke.

[@scottski02]

NAZI!!

[@jayjaydeth]

You know, in response to Taxxon saying you can skip to midway through MauLer's third video and not miss anything, I would like to counter that you can skip all of Taxxon's video's entirely and also not miss anything.

[@v-set5721]

Accurate

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

Yeah, but only one of these responses is true...........its yours.....

[@Party_Almsivi]

Bodied

[@Leotheleprachaun]

Checkmate, alphabet person.

[@soyekinthehideaway6763]

It honestly astonishes me that Eric & Jack's accompanies would claim that Mauler is very authoritative of his opinion when Eric would immediately dismiss the 4 hours of TLJ critique as being basically rambling garbages without giving any detailed reasoning for such a huge claim. Which is more authoritative? Gave lengthy explanation to every single one of the problems you are having with the product, or simply claim "that's just how it is"?

[@davidmendez3899]

“bUt ObJeCtIvItY iS bAd AnD iMpOsSiBle!” _he said objectively_

[@jawamedia1529]

I think the attitude is also authoritative. Dismissing 4 hours of critique because (in their opinion) it's a plot summary and nitpicking, and then telling other people to skip 4 hours rather than presenting arguments why is far more authoritative than someone making a 6 hour series explaining why certain things work and dont work

[@mayanksharma3651]

Longman baaaadddd

[@DaMaster012]

Collectivists and subjects only and ever accuse people they hate of the exact things they themselves are guilty of, because they can't even fathom a viewpoint outside their own, let alone engage with it.

[@Pangora2]

I like how he tried to call out "Every frame a Pause" and announce 'they probably paused the video. Checkmate.'

[@yanribeiro7108]

Goteem.

[@hgcommons]

Burnt.

[@lgnd2k3]

I mean it isn't my favourite thing in the world on some episodes where they pause someone mid argument, analyse like half a sentence and then continue and find that a lot of the things they said were addressed. But in general this format works quite well.

[@yanribeiro7108]

@@lgnd2k3 Why is that a bad thing? They apologise and take back their statement. This isn't a bad thing, it would be if they didn't apologise and take back what they said.

[@lgnd2k3]

@@yanribeiro7108 I think I'd just prefer menfap. Maybe Every ninth frame a pause. Because sometimes additional context like a second after they spend a minute discussing something adresses what they said. Just my own personal taste.

[@martinkirbits4752]

You gotta love it when you go to sleep listen to this and they are still going when you wake up

[@twentyfour4998]

Because I live in Germany and don't sleep very long, that happened to me 3 times now. First with EFAP 15/16, then with 17/18 and now with 22/23 and it's really funny.

[@tree9215]

I went to sleep when they started this one and woke up when they finished the second.

[@ettoreozzy9932]

It happened twice I believe where I was going to get bus to go back to home from my job and saw the notification of EFAP and then got back home to catch some of it and after a while, and dinner, they were still going and I got the ending in my bed while going to sleep lol

[@clevergoblin1714]

Each EFAP episode is like a marathon of my favorite show, but that's the length of these episodes.... YOU COULD BEAT A VIDEOGAME IN LESS TIME THAN THIS 2 PARTER TAKES TO WATCH

[@Leotheleprachaun]

I watch in .75 speed. EVERY EFAP what you said just happened, happens.

[@necromancer7676]

You should do the “essay voice” in your April Fools video

[@mrmackellar3337]

Andrew Borre yes...soft spoken....and fragile....to sell that emotional resonance

[@ThatBugBehindYou]

If he does I hope he chooses the Night Mind or Nexpo style, that trying to be creepy type of essay voice is just so wonderfully cringy.

[@MastaBlastaS99]

But what is... R e d C a r L a w?

[@charmandyorton006]

He should go for the John Macintosh voice lol *[nasally, weaselly voice]* "Teh Lest Jede es e stere ebeet men leerneng te trest wemen"

[@necromancer7676]

Charmandy Orton Does that mean we get to look at women

[@ergoth154]

"Long critique is not deep critique" 12 hours of EFAP later... Okay, this is epic.

[@whitehorsedown6499]

Long and deep.....rhino milk.

[@Lv-sl3rm]

As the spiders fortold.

[@reader111089]

@@Lv-sl3rm As the Lord and Saviour Jared Genesis commanded.

[@blakedoubrava1149]

I think they did it ok the way they did it.

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

Got um!

[@stubbylegs]

7 hours and its not Quinton? Can't wait to see all the strawmen

[@EziooAuditore]

11 hours actually

[@Leotheleprachaun]

*laughs in episode 59*

[@Wulfen73]

"It doesn't matter if Wolf is correct about the things he's criticizing, because he's wrong no matter what" Did no one look at this line in the script and say "euuugh, that kind of sinks any credibility we have doesn't it?"

[@amanibob1416]

"Only a Sith deals in absolute."

[@cryw1092]

That's just a contradiction in it's own right. It just makes them look intentionally braindead.

[@nuclearchezburgr3857]

Its extremely poorly worded. Watching this again a year later and it still is an "oof" moment, but its because (s)he's arguing that if Star Wars is bad or good is irrelevant to the assertion that forced diversity is bad, or that forced diversity exists. However, by trying to be cheeky in his/her wording, it sounds like that they're plugging their ears and saying "lalala, you're wrong!". Btw, I don't know how to refer to Eric/Patricia in this now that they've transitioned. Maybe someone knows what would be proper for this? 😅

[@mushroomheaification]

@@nuclearchezburgr3857 the polite thing to do is referring to them as their gender after coming out as trans. Their currently preferred pronoun. Not defending their position just clarifying the terminology.

[@nuclearchezburgr3857]

@@mushroomheaification i asked a few friends after making this comment because I found it interesting (especially since I don't know anyone who is trans irl). I would definitely say Patricia now, but since they're responding to "Eric" I was a little unsure. I don't have respect for her opinions, but I will respect her identity if I can lol

[@dougdynamo9398]

Time stamps for Jack's dishonesty and unsubstantiated statements: 1:03:04 1:14:03 1:19:10 1:58:07 1:58:40 3:03:23 3:16:12 3:18:57 3:20:00 3:22:22 3:24:46 3:27:15 3:29:10 - oof, big one here 3:46:32 3:53:50 - another big one 4:03:02 - connected to the previous 4:06:12 - also connected 4:07:20 4:09:15 4:10:15 4:11:56 4:23:08 (proven dishonest by 4:29:00) 4:27:01 3:26:40 - the origin of "long man bad" Turns out people were never saying that was Jack's position, but rather their attitude in response to the stream being long. *Note: This list will be strictly Jack Saint and will not include clips that Jack included as snark. The list is statements from Jack Saint that are provably untrue, dishonest.

[@JOverton1992]

"We don't have all day, so i'll give you the short version" says erik. Its almost like if the video was longer he'd have the opportunity to give a more in depth analysis. Funny that...

[@mylesgaddy8867]

I really hate it when KZbinrs say things like "We're running out of time" or "That would take too long to explain" in their videos. Like they aren't in control of the length of the video.

[@khoid]

What in-depth analysis can you give when you rely upon ignorance, misrepresentation and straw-men?

[@nuclearchezburgr3857]

@@mylesgaddy8867 its funny too to think that longer videos (supposedly, I can't remember for sure) are easier to monetize. So "that would be too long" is kinda antithetical to why you most people make videos

[@RatchetandSly]

The criticism is in Mauler's long form analyses, he often talks about minor nitpicks or logical inconsistencies which take up a long portion of the video and are better off being cut out.

[@yanribeiro7108]

@@RatchetandSly And they're incorrect for saying that. It shouldn't be cut out because it's minor, that makes no sense.

[@jays8287]

I survived the whole thing. LONG MAN BAD

[@clevergoblin1714]

But short man gay.

[@TheDrawnBlade]

@@clevergoblin1714 God damn.. I really am

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

@@clevergoblin1714 that is true in so many ways

[@FutchCassidy]

Length isn't essential... _but it does feel real nice_ ;)

[@Nick_Hammer]

"that's hot, that's hot."

[@HimothyHimsworthy]

“Nazi”

[@paragonpoints8420]

*cough*

[@Unknown-hb3id]

Saurus990 “Thotzi!”

[@PeachDragon_]

*coughs blood*

[@rickaroo3245]

When I look at Eric I feel bad for him. When I listen to Eric I don't feel bad for him.

[@Doctor_Straing_Strange]

same. I think that calling him ugly is not warranted, don't make him feel bad because of something he cannot control: his appearance. But I think he SHOULD be called dishonest and a liar, because of his actions.

[@admpandora91]

O.O ... lol

[@Bignic2008]

Doctor straing Strange I agree that insults aren’t really warranted, but I don’t expect Rags and Wolf to change their abrasive personalities (I do love them, but they’re not gentle by any means). However you sort of can control aspects of your appearance. Eric could do with a haircut IMO

[@rickaroo3245]

@@george4568 yeah this was when they still went by Eric Taxxon because it was a year ago and that's how time works you brain dead idiot. Also, transphobic? When did I say anything about their gender or the fact they were trans? I don't care what they are...man, woman, Greek god, furry, toaster.. My statement stands either way.

[@Zach-cn4lb]

Rick I’m sad that whatever gem of a comment you’re replying to was deleted. I’m sure it was hilarious

[@peterjoyfilms]

The sad thing is if you look at the comments section of their video it's full of hundreds of people who just accepted the misinformation they spouted without question.

[@supershadey09]

Or people who already don't like Mauler.

[@ElectromagNick]

@@supershadey09 Generally a combination. It's really sad, honestly, that people forego evidence in favor of sone sort of validation. Confirmation bias is a bitch.

[@bumblerinteractive1554]

The sad thing is if you look at the comment section of this video it's full of people who just accepted the misformation they spouted without question

[@entropy7705]

@@bumblerinteractive1554 The sad thing is if you look at the replies people will think their response is somehow relevant two years later.

[@bumblerinteractive1554]

@@entropy7705 energy made this one

[@NotSoObvious]

He certainly missed the "It's difficult to write that sheer quantity in the first place" subtext followed by my ACTUAL point which was that MauLer holds himself to a high standard. But y'know, this guys attention span is apparently as limited as the first sentence ;)

[@warden-commandercousland]

Good comments dude, sincerely. Ima check out your channel.

[@TheDonDidNothingWrong]

Can't decide what the best part of the stream was, Wolf defending Mauler & Rags (Warms my heart) Or Jay Jay Binks, Tough decision 🙇

[@tree9215]

Time stamps?

[@TheDonDidNothingWrong]

@@tree9215 I'd have to find it but I believe it's around the 2-5 hour mark, I'll comment when I find it

[@TheDonDidNothingWrong]

@Christopher Marlowe it's worth it for the evidence (The Virgin Jack&Eric vs the Chad Comment)

[@TheDonDidNothingWrong]

@@tree9215 2:20:35 - 2:23:07 is one instance and I believe it happens a few more times later on

[@Beuwen_The_Dragon]

^.-.^ I am biased toward saying Jay Jay Binks...

[@donk4979]

Shout out to Jay for being an adult. He had the balls to come on the show and handled all critiques and said he leaned from it. We should all strive to be that way. Now he’s a reg and offers great input.

[@NikoJr.]

He's EFAP's CEO as well. He's moving up in the world

[@jgamer2228]

@@NikoJr. the lore expands

[@MrNintendeion]

What was his first appearance?

[@donk4979]

@@MrNintendeion EFAP 7 i think.

[@MrNintendeion]

@@donk4979 lovely thanks

[@mariokarter13]

Wanna hear a joke? "The Force Awakens critique will be dropping weekly."

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

I don't get it. But I'm sad now, for some reason.

[@xorras8037]

...after second part is released.

[@DreadnoughtFiend]

@@OutsideTheTargetDemographic you didn't notice, but your brain did

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

@@DreadnoughtFiend Indeed it did

[@TheOneShotWunda]

Xorras lol even 2 months after the 2nd part the 3rd still hasn’t come out. I guess GoT and the MCU got priority since Endgame and Captain Marvel and the final season of Game of Thrones

[@TheKaiserKraken]

4:39:00 Just wanted to point out that Jack doesn't just interpret Mauler's use of "Thats just fantastic" incorrectly he rips one from context to try and make his point. Right after Jack cuts away from Mauler saying "Thats just a fantastic comedic line" Mauler goes on to talk about how the line is also fantastic from a character writing standpoint, Far from just stating whether something is good or bad then moving on leaving it unqualified. 6:44 In the unbridled praise for reference.

[@CR2024T]

Mate your comment is gold and we should all aspire to be like you

[@mediamonster8005]

Doesn’t Mauler produce video ESSAYs...? Do these guys not understand the structure of an ESSAY?? Introduction -> proof -> summary (in the context of the arguments being made) If you go straight to the summary, then it’s not a god damn ESSAY!! Apparently all of that ‘proof’ is just “bloat”?? I’m so confused...

[@BerzerkGamerFTW]

Shhhh you're breaking their arguments, you racist?

[@stoopidapples1596]

that's literally not the point... the point is that his whole video is a summary.

[@mediamonster8005]

So it's actually EFAS? With racists...

[@BerzerkGamerFTW]

@@mediamonster8005 Exactly

[@mediamonster8005]

I'm so glad you cleared that up. Not confused at all now

[@ThatBugBehindYou]

The worst part about this is that a majority of the people who watched his video are not only never going to watch this or your videos, but they're encouraged by both of these guys to not watch them.

[@takaro0]

There are also two major problems with these people. 1. They already have their minds set going in. There's no such thing as objectivity in art. No logical reasoning can convince them of otherwise. 2. To them everything Mauler say is already invalid because of the length of his videos. Or they won't even give them a chance and even if they do they might just see it as blabbering and not take it seriously. It doesn't help that douchebag Jack is lying about Mauler's content and position and also deliberately misinterpret his work. He's a disingenuous snake. Eric is more honest but he needs to have a serious conversation with Mauler in order to understand him more. Talking to Jack tho is probably like talking to a flat earther.

[@sadywootten7668]

The dumb stuff they say in the comments also emphasizes how we need to restore America's public schools.

[@johnsnow04]

Not really a huge loss. Most of them think of us as toxic trolls who are hating the stuff they like and most of them don't even has a capacity to rebut any of critique of the movies without going for buzzwords like "alt right", "racist", "incels" and such. Don't think that any of them can't really contribute to any kind of discussion here. So just let them watch JackSaint who thinks freaking "Sky High" is Disney propaganda for fascism and eugenics. They can't do better then that kind of thinking either way so its pointless to have a discussion anyway.

[@tacotikki251]

Eh it’s only like a small portion of their tiny view count that even agrees with them. Mauler has millions of views and people agreeing with him.

[@CrimsonUltrafox]

Anyone stupid enough to believe those two hideous no-testerone pussbois isn't going to be smart enough to even understand what Mauler is saying.

[@omgazr0]

"Endless string of observations that you can just see" There is so much wrong here it just hurts 'You see, but you do not observe. The distinction is clear.' is a common Sherlock Holmes quote The point of an observation is to analyze/scrutinize what you see Basically the entire purpose of building a proper critique.

[@DeepEye1994]

Exactly. If Jack is saying "Mauler is just pointing at the things that happen in the movie" then why doesn't he agree that The Last Jedi is poorly written nonsense? Or he just fucking watches the flashy explosions and the only information he gets out of the film are the spoon-fed themes then he goes "Uuuh, they spelled out the theme, so the film is deep and good!"

[@boboddyb2217]

1. Observation is not even on the same planet as analysis. An analysis is an in-depth look at a single thing, usually accompanied with some sort of context. Analyzing a single scene from a movie for it's structure, pacing, writing, etc. is something that takes actual effort. Observation on the other hand is a glazing over a scene, something that could start an analysis. For MauLer that takes too much effort or will end up being boring/fruitless. Observation: This scene is poorly written. Analysis: This scene fails due to cumbersome writing, unclear motivations and no clear point to the scene or to the one that follows it. 2. Agreeing with someone on the critical analysis of something is not the same as agreeing that something is bad or good. People can agree that some parts or even most parts of a movie were bad, but they can also believe the movie as a whole was good. Your logic is that someone's individual conclusion and overall thoughts on an art piece must coincide with a specific type of critical analysis they constructed. That's false. People can hate the movie, but love it. People can understand that the movie may be good, but hate it neverthanless.

[@bleckofbleh2295]

Boboddy B You obviously haven’t watched many of MauLer’s videos if you honestly think that’s how he does things, especially his actual TLJ critique. He does do that, in fact I’d argue the process you’re describing is Jacksaint’s method, after all he just says that MauLers’ videos are just a string of observations without actually analyzing. Meanwhile, as shown in the stream when it gets to discussing if MauLer really said anything about Canto Bite, they give an outright example of MauLer analyzing rather than observing. Please be more informed before commenting next time.

[@thinkwithurdipstick]

Boboddy B the way you describe analysis, that’s pretty much exactly what mauler does scene by scene. You clearly haven’t watched his critique videos if you don’t recognize that. Also, a person cannot love a movie and hate it. Those are two opposites of an emotional spectrum. People could recognize a film is poorly made but still love it, but that’s not the same as hating and loving it.

[@fconstraints]

"Gas mask people are underrepresented..." The sad truth :(

[@Harrinsain]

we need forced diversity to spread representation of gas mask people

[@someguy4405]

I mean, have you seen The Empty Child on Doctor Who?

[@sanny8716]

Also skulls on wheels

[@amanibob1416]

Killzone, Wolfenstein and Metro... That is all.

[@soundywaivy]

I only know 3 gas mask people Pyro from TF2 I A T Mooler

[@daman8492]

Good lord it's going to take me days to watch this. Edit: OK, these two are objectively the worst people EFAP has criticized so far. The way they constantly take passive-aggressive jabs at the EFAP hosts and the demands they make for them to come on the show is just ridiculous. Why on earth do they think they are so good that they can make demands of the show they'll be on? Removing one of the hosts, no less. Utterly stupid.

[@Nick_Hammer]

I didn't expect to come out of this efap thinking Eric would be sane one between him and this Jack guy. But oh boy were my expectations subverted.

[@Arko777777]

I felt the same.

[@ME-sz2bv]

The video is good because it S U B V E R T E D O U R E X P E C T A T I O N S

[@wellingtonbruh3756]

Subversion = deep themes and quality

[@TOONYBOY]

@@wellingtonbruh3756 My internet is very unpredictable, meaning my streams/VODs can heavily glitch during important plot points in games and tense moments. I make the best KZbin videos on the platform and if you guys can't appreciate that then you just don't understand good content creation in my opinion

[@Wackaz]

Jack was totally correct.

[@torgadogwielder808]

The difference between ripley and rey? One is a believable person with strengths and weaknesses, that behaves in a logical and consistent manner within her character and her situation is relatable. The other is a mary sue that is not believable, relatable, or interesting in any context.

[@gottesurteil3201]

Ripley's crippling fear of the Xenomorph transforming into unbridled love for the girl she tries to protect made her so likeable. She had an arc, Rey just wants to do "the right thing."

[@TOONYBOY]

@@gottesurteil3201 What even is "the right thing" to Rey? What does that mean to her? What are her motivations? I guess we'll never know

[@TheRufusT]

Thats called "bad writing" not "forced diversity".

[@DJ10_]

@@TheRufusT Nobody here mentioned that you wallop, that's not even the point of the comment.

[@TheRufusT]

@Bill Clinton Enjoyer if thats true then that is the worst word as a description for a definition ive ever heard. You could get away with "forced" as maybe another word for "bad" but "diversity" and "writing" is a space jam of a stretch.

[@brycekrispiez714]

At least Major Lee had the balls to come on and at least try to defend himself (even though he did a horrible job) Jack Saint just straight up sucks

[@sunbro6998]

If you ever listen to the director's commentary to Big Trouble in Little China, Carpenter asks Kurt what is the most important part of filmmaking. Kurt answers, the script. Carpenter tries to put forth other areas, but Kurt goes into a bit of detail why the script is the number one part of a film. I think this pertains to this discussion.

[@justincruz5720]

Huh. I just learned something new today.

[@artofalmost9479]

As an aside to this ancient comment. All of the Carpenter/Russell DVD commentaries are totally worth listening to.

[@BenDavies1977]

Toxic Taxxon saying that your TLJ critique is mostly "useless garbage" is doing it a major disservice. Imo it is a fascinating piece of insight, editing and narration. I watched the series and it kept me hooked the entire way through. I may even watch it all again soon. Keep doing what you're doing Mauler.

[@michaeldorsey9231]

It always gets under my skin when they summarize Mauler's reviews as overly long wikipedia summaries. This completely overlooks Mauler's arguments and comparisons.

[@mr.iankp.5734]

@@michaeldorsey9231 Not to mention when they compare MauLer to CinemaSins.

[@abyssreborn4213]

Just over 10 minutes for the ad revenue, I see

[@Sunny-jv7yt]

They’re really stretching the content thin to get over the 10 minute mark :-/

[@torgeenigme]

Every bit of Jack Saint's video is just disingenuously false. The only point in Jack's favor is that your videos are long. "That's one in a row for you, Wild Bill." Also, imagine how talented you have to be in order to be slain by your own Straw-men. That's embarrassing dude.

[@AlecRozsa]

After watching the Just Write debate video, it really puts the lie to this bizarre notion that an uneven number of opponents makes things "unfair". That video, was a very civil discussion, and everyone got out unscathed. It demonstrates that whatever misgivings Jack or Eric had about coming on EFAP were unfounded. This leaves little room to assume anything but cowardice or underdeveloped ideas on their part. After Eric went so far out of his way to misrepresent others, even admitting that he hides dislike ratios, it's clear that he is not only dishonest, but actively stunts his own intellectual growth by blocking out information that challenges his assumptions.

[@superapm9620]

J Rags & MauLer vs The Right Opinion?

[@Cc-on5pp]

@J I feel like that supports his claim though. That discussion shows that even if efap has more people they won't gang up and talk over their guest.

[@nuclearchezburgr3857]

@J I am actually surprised Eric and Jack want to include Wolf at all. If I were them, I would see Wolf as someone who is quick to insult those he disagrees with. The Just Write debate is a great example of why Wolf is actually good in debates because he thinks on things and waits for moments to jump in. I do this sometimes in my discussions sometimes. Wolf admits in this stream that he needs time to think, and I remember Wolf's contributions to the JW debate was really insightful - and I would take something well thought out vs just filling dead air space. The key difference is that when Just Write witnessed the criticism of his video being conducted hewas really cool about it, which helped a lot to remain civil when he eventually joined the call. I feel that Eric and Jack might attempt to poke the bear, or wolf in this case, and cause it to be a poor discussion. This assumes it'll even happen if they are so goddamn adamant about Rags not being there. I think it's because Rags is really good at talking on the fly and don't want him and MauLer to work together. I know they give different reasons but tbh it seems like this might be actually valid.

[@stoopidapples1596]

@@nuclearchezburgr3857 Eric and Jack want to include Wolf if anyone because he's somewhat relevant to the discussion. Also, it's MauLer who's taking the criticism like a child here, feeling the need to debunk it somehow.

[@denkerbosu3551]

@@stoopidapples1596 he is the host of the podcast Eric wanted to get on. You are not entitled to EFAP's plataform you know? They invite them to speak their piece.

[@respectedsalmon9390]

MauLer : Too afraid to bring a wider context into his reviews. Also MauLer: Brings up the spread of anti-capitalism in TLJ and why it's pandering. Jack, come on.

[@boboddyb2217]

That would work and Jack would be wrong. If not for the tiny, miniscule, insignificant, worthless little fact that TLJ was produced by Disney and the discussion of the messaging only serves to push MauLer's own ideas and not to relate to anything about the movie or it's production. So it's context that actually isn't context and if it was context, it is not used as context.

[@respectedsalmon9390]

@@boboddyb2217 Firstly, how does bringing up TLJ being a Disney production help you in this case? It only highlights the irony of an anti-capitalist message being in a film owned by Disney, a company working with American capitalism. Secondly, it directly relates to the film. In his analysis, MauLer brings up the issues with Canto Bight: Rose not considering how pointless her actions will be; Finn not considering that the slaves will only be hurt by this; and the workers being slaves despite the fact the casino could easily afford droids. Because of how poorly executed it was, MauLer concludes the film was virtue signaling, that it wanted to quickly appeal to other anti-capitalists without understanding the characters nor the setting.

[@boboddyb2217]

@@respectedsalmon9390 It's almost like TLJ's entire point was understanding what you're fighting for and why it's worth doing it. The point of the way the rebellion is portrayed in TLJ is to show how weak and hopeless they are, the only reason characters fight for it is for what it stands. MauLer specfically ignores this point, not only for the fact he simply wants a different movie with a different story and a different purpose, but because he knows what the movie is trying to do and instead of critcizing it for how it fails in doing so (Holdo) he chooses to say that the entire path the movie is going for is SJW nonsense. MauLer either has zero understanding to how art works or has zero respect for it. It's one thing to disagree with the message of the movie, it's another to try to disguise your hatred for the fact the movie is even trying to take that route by claiming some AgEnDa. Your logic is also deeply fascinating. You have zero clue or knowledge of the mainstream film industry, you do realise a franchise like Star Wars would have massive oversight from Disney and it's commitees right? Although with TLJ the creators were given more freedom there is no doubt the movie had tons of ghostwriters and producer interference. It's unclear how much that impacted the quality of the movie, but one thing's sure, if there was an inkling of anti-capitalist themeing in the movie it would have been stamped out. But hey, sure, let's give you a cookie and say sure Rain is a commie SJW who virtue-signals in his movies, do you actually believe that some rich people in a random fucking sublot being bad/immoral supposed to be a shattering critique of capitalism? Are you fucking serious? You have to be either idealogically braindead, never seen an actual movie which criticizes atleast the basic problems with capitalism (like consumerism in Fight Club and American Psycho) or both. Disney allowing *"anti-capitalist"* messaging in their movies isn't ironic. It's moronic, because it's not true. Again, it's context that is not context and cannot be supported by other context and if it was context it wouldn't work as context.

[@CastFromHitPoints]

@@boboddyb2217 1st: The RESISTANCE'S portrayal in TLJ is nonsensical since TFA straight up says they're supported by the Republic, that the First Order is kidnapping children, etc. This would mean that the Resistance should have more ships and materiel from the Republic (which is a government controlling most of the galaxy, so they have the infrastructure to do it). They would also have plenty of personnel from planets the First Order has raided ready to help them (or heck, just people from the Republic wanting to get back at the fanatics who blew up an inhabited system just to kill the Republic's political leaders), yet the Resistance of TLJ is shown to be alone. The progression from point A to B makes no sense. Worse off, they didn't have to look weak for the whole "they fight the hopeless battle due to their cause" thing. Just have the chaos from the First Order beheading the Republic leadership lead to a confused collapse of order, have the Resistance become too spread out, then have the First Order attack the Resistance leadership(Leia's group) to further prevent any attempts at organized resistance. 2nd: Your assuming of MauLer specifically ignoring this point due to having wanted something different is farcical. Firstly, he does criticize it for failing in it's handling of this point (Holdo). Secondly, you've provided no evidence that he knows about this interpretation of the Resistance's portrayal. Yeah, that's right, this INTERPRETATION. That's how you saw it, MauLer and many others saw it differently and have thus responded differently. Also, nice job with the ad hominem about MauLer not understanding how art works AND the accusation of hatred being his motivation. Provide evidence or you've got no argument; just insults. 3rd: Again, you start with an ad hominem. How do you KNOW the other person you're talking to has no knowledge of how the film industry works? Oh, right, you don't. As for the "massive oversight" of the Star Wars franchise, please provide evidence. KK hired a team of writers, the Story Group, and all of them have next-to-none writing credentials, with the ones who did having writing creds for 1-3 episodes of TV series, none of which were sci-fi either. She fired the original directors from all the Anthology films to replace them due to "creative differences", and ordered tons of reshoots that dramatically changed the stories - all of which cost $$$. Where were the suits to rein her spending in? Also, "no doubt the movie had tons of ghostwriters and producer interference" is pure speculation on your part, as if that was a fact, you'd no doubt point it out. The idea that a company would stamp out certain themes is hilarious - you're assuming the suits actually analyze the script for all it's possible lessons and messaging. Newsflash: they're not critics or philosophers and have got better things to do, like running a company. 4th: No, it's not a "shattering critique" of capitalism, it's the most shallow take possible - AND THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM. It's shallow political messaging that has no place in a story about the struggle of good vs evil and magic space monks. 5th: "I find this idea stupid, therefore it's not true!" isn't an argument. Show me where Disney stepped in to stop any such messaging.

[@CastFromHitPoints]

​@Boboddy B EDIT: Apparently he deleted his comment. Again with the ad hominems. I understand this is the KZbin comments section, but that's no excuse for a lack of civility. I haven't (yet) insulted your intelligence, yet your arguments are laced with them. 1: Congrats, you've got my point completely backwards. I was saying that it's stupid that the Resistance is shown to have so little supplies, ships, and people because they were supported by the Republic (as stated in TFA), the First Order was kidnapping kids to brainwash into soldiers (thus pissing off the planets they stole the kids from), and the First Order destroyed the leadership of the Republic (thus pissing off the citizenry who liked the Republic). The Resistance should have plenty of ships, people to crew them, and fuel to make more than 2 hyperspace jumps. I further said that the First Order destroying the Republic leadership would cause CHAOS, as systems would be left without an organized response to the attack and invasion. My whole proposed scenario was to show that you could achieve the feeling of desperation and of fighting a hopeless battle, without having to ignore the consequences of the points from TFA. I proposed that the Resistance spreads their forces out trying to rally the systems together while the First Order takes over, then attacks Leia's group once the rest of the Resistance is too busy to help prevent the First Order from killing the Resistance leadership. That's the exact opposite of the remnants of the Republic taking out a concentrated massive force without their political leaders. Also, materiel is a noun meaning military materials and equipment. That means weapons, ammo, armor, MREs, radios, transports, fuel, etc. Maybe you should've Googled it before trying to insult my intelligence, but congrats on playing yourself. 2: I could ask the same of you, but that would be uncivil. Do YOU understand that other people can interpret a message different ways (different means not the same) and on top of that, their take-away can be supported by emotion or empirical evidence? No, clearly that's an absurdist view here. You clearly saw the Resistance as a weak force, fighting a hopeless battle because they believed in their cause. Cool, that's a nice portrayal. MauLer, the rest of the EFAP crew, and myself saw a small, undersupplied force with no allies; this view is based not on any theme or messaging the film's trying to convey, but statements from characters and logical assumptions of those statements. The previous movie said the Republic supported them (specifically Hux, a leader of the First Order, so it's not like the relationship's a secret), so we question why the Resistance is so small and undersupplied as surely a galactic government could give more than what we've been shown. Yet no mentions of other bases or task forces are given and the one point where allies are brought up it's to say they're not going to help (some allies). The juxtaposition is jarring and pulls us out of the film as we try to reconcile the two points into a consistent whole. Personally, I got the desperate struggle view, yet the questions of why the Resistance is so pitiful, especially when compared to the OT Rebellion (one's a government-supported paramilitary with 1 base, ~19 ships, and 5 fighter squadrons while the other's a ragtag collection of homegrown insurgents with that many ships per base), overshadow the film's portrayal of our heroes, preventing me from really feeling the tension (plus the chase is so boring). "MauLer specfically ignores this point, not only for the fact he simply wants a different movie with a different story and a different purpose, but because he knows what the movie is trying to do and instead of critcizing it for how it fails in doing so (Holdo) he chooses to say that the entire path the movie is going for is SJW nonsense." This sentence makes no distinction between two points. In it you are talking about the point of the Resistance's portrayal as a weak force fighting for a cause they believe in, accuse MauLer of ignoring this on purpose, then bring up Holdo. I assumed Holdo tied into the rest of it. Clearly I was mistaken. Also, you want to insult me for "misspelling" a word, yet here are call me illiterate. If I was illiterate, we wouldn't be having this debate as I wouldn't be able to fucking read it. Chose your words more carefully next time. Yes I understand a movie can have multiple messages and I am glad we've found some common ground in the failed character development for Poe. Further, MauLer does criticize this AND every decision Holdo makes which drives said "development." So your point that he doesn't criticize the film for how it fails at doing something is wrong. And again you state what MauLer couldn't accept and what he didn't want. Do you live in his head or something, to be able to know his thoughts and desires? 3-5: I still await your evidence.

[@JordanKane97]

Your monthly reminder that Jack Saint gave Cuties a 7/10... The Noncing Soymen

[@nopatiencejoe6376]

Child exploitation is A ok when it has "themes" behind it

[@naunau311]

You're kidding right?

[@JordanKane97]

@@naunau311 Afraid not, friend. Jack likes the movie, a lot

[@naunau311]

@@JordanKane97 I mean. At least his tastes are consistant with his looks

[@JordanKane97]

@@naunau311 Yep, agreed. I burst out laughing while reading that

[@souleater4242564kodd]

Eric Taxing my willpower to live and Jack the Strawman. Such a lovely(Bleehhrgg) couple.

[@charmandyorton006]

Taxing my will to live XD

[@Gamsterjeff600]

I tax that saint.

[@souleater4242564kodd]

@@Gamsterjeff600 Taxed so much he lost his stache and his shirt

[@peddazz2365]

lmao perfect....but seriously just looking at erics dumb ass face lets me feel my brain melting

[@Insomnolant1335]

@@souleater4242564kodd "He"? I thought it was an 'it.'

[@ladybladebinder7059]

I'm glad Jack doesn't make long videos, he has an awful voice to listen to. MauLer, you'd be great at audio books. Actually, I could happily listen to all four of you on here for hours. Oh... wait...

[@justincruz5720]

Hello there.

[@bustedknuckles6547]

The first 12 hour EFAP in history and i was there through the whole two parts. I worked an entire night shift, drove home, and went to bed at the end. Simply amazing Mauler and everyone involved in this epic shit storm. Well done, well done, well done

[@HerohammerStudios]

But it's not 12 hours...

[@hariman7727]

@@HerohammerStudios There's a part 2.

[@BumLuck]

Jack Saint is so disingenuous in every aspect of his character. He uses this calm, collected tone in his video while blatantly taking clips out of context and assuming things MauLer has never said, giving him the illusion of civility while trying to make you guys look bad by comparison for getting mad about it. He says he's totally up for discussion, but when his video is actually being discussed he decides to take pot shots from his twitter instead of jumping into chat and directly engaging with the discussion. Even his tweets were just more misrepresentations of the arguments. Basically he hasn't done a single honest thing in regards to this situation outside of telling MauLer that he was making a video. When I first saw Jack Saint's video, I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that maybe he just has poor comprehension. But after being reminded of the full context of many of the clips, combined with the way he reacted to this livestream, there's no way to interpret his actions as anything other than malicious. This is not okay.

[@HimothyHimsworthy]

Bum Luck but, that’s just your subjective opinion man

[@darknessbobulus]

I'm currently writing my own script on this shit. I can't stand this nonsense.

[@michaeldorsey9231]

I'll see that video if you make it.

[@darknessbobulus]

@@michaeldorsey9231 thanks bud. Its my first one so I will welcome all criticisms.

[@jedibrooks7235]

Mic fucking dropped. Bravo

[@marvalice3455]

"why does the black panther need body guards?" To protect him from uncomfortable questions.

[@seanhavern2384]

Brandon Sanderson (Mistborn, Stormlight Archives, Wheel of Time) has a very strong lecture in his course at BYU related to the subject of forced diversity and characters who are not the same race or gender as the author. Sanderson argues that there are levels of sexism/racism/prejudice (though I would call it de-individualization) that a writer can fall into. The first is the other as an object, i.e. the princess who is a McGuffin for the story and has no agency or character. This is what Hollywood and the average progressive would rage against first because it is easy to accept that characters who are basically objects is a poor representation of the character. The second and third are the "other" as paragons, this is the flaw most often occurring in Hollywood. Either the writers, producers, executives or a combination of all of the above gather and say how do "I portray the other and guarantee I'm not sexist/racist/prejudice?" They then arrive at the Paragon, the "other" who is the best at everything and only serves to show the rest of the characters (who tend to look like the author) that the "other" is great and that discrimination against the "other" and people who look like them is wrong. This is in full display in TFA and TLJ, another common example is magical "other" characters who guide the protagonist (Legend of Bagger Vance). Ironically a movie like Black Panther does this. The writers of that film were African American men and when they wrote the "other" characters, notably women and white males each is a cartoon devoid of much individualism, Claw is a pillager, Martin Freeman is the ignorant outsider, and the female characters are all paragons, notably the body guard and the sister. Further, down you have tokenism that arises from quotas, another solution Hollywood is fond of, resulting in a grab bag of people who match demographics or perceived demographics. Sanderson gives the example of a black guy showing up for a single scene, doing something laudable, and then never being heard or seen again. Sanderson concludes that all of these pitfalls, which he labels as sexism/racism can be avoided by writing individuals first and foremost and then deciding well what is their skin color or gender and does this impact the individual I have created. He displays this method expertly in the Stormlight archives with the characters of Shallan Davar and Kaladin Stormblessed.

[@peddazz2365]

I like brandons book good to hear that he is also sound in his head (his world building is always so amazing)

[@seanhavern2384]

@@peddazz2365 He is an incredibly impressive author especially given how young he is compared to his body of work. His lectures from BYU are on youtube for free and I highly recommend them.

[@bishopthefool]

that's very interesting

[@lampad4549]

@@seanhavern2384 the bodyguard being a paragon is debatable but the black female character that is his love interest is not one of the things you describe.

[@ryngobrody1627]

Honestly, Luke Cage is a way better black superhero than Black Panther is. That show is not perfect, there's tons of weird acting are retarded lines like "You called the damn Po po on me, woman!" But Luke Cage is an respectable guy who has to deal with his superpowers and become a hero over time after many pitfalls, and even the villains of the show are well rounded characters who all have well done character arcs.

[@TheoTungsten]

I love how he accuses MauLer of being smug, then says that you just need to think critically to supposedly see why MauLer is bad.

[@bleckofbleh2295]

Eric and Jack: The dastardly duo that stole all of the strawmen from Quinton to use against their enemies.

[@specialgamer0072]

Eric, Jack, Quinton, Joseph, HBomber, Patrick....who else?

[@davidmendez3899]

who’s making the meme of Quinton waking up and asking “where are my Strawmen!?!”

[@Muck006]

@@davidmendez3899 They cant make any new ones until after harvest season. Straw is out!

[@davidmendez3899]

💡: *Jack and the Beanstalk* Jack steals a straw goose from a giant Quinton

[@smurfsareoppressed9584]

EFAP lore contains a rather impressive rogues’ gallery.

[@junkyardsoul3757]

The easiest way to dismantle this argument is to reference film commentary tracks. When film creators make them, they will talk about points as they come up and then maybe extrapolate on them. Mauler basically does the same thing, but with pausing the the film or video so as to exhaust everything he has to say on a specific point, then continuing.

[@justincruz5720]

Those videos are such a ride.

[@MrShakespearefan]

But a film commentary by a director is different than an analysis by a critic. One is by someone who made the film, the other is by someone taking an outside perspective. And a director’s commentary only lasts the length of the film.

[@yahhah3027]

@@MrShakespearefan What is your point?

[@dio2076]

Pretty sure Mauler actually brought up the commentary tracks as well as the behind the scenes videos

[@gottesurteil3201]

35:43 I don't have a framed picture of Mauler sadly, but I do have a body pillow... So there's that.

[@Longshanks1690]

@Nathan Higgins Where, exactly, am I meant to fit a framed picture when my Shrine to Jared takes up so much room?!

[@BananaMana69]

So you have a body pillow that's just a skull on wheels? Kinda odd..

[@pieminator6969]

Mauler videos are long since he analyzes THE ENTIRE FILM and including his own skits and ideas making video _longer_ . *If it was just padding,* the argument that "it's not deep critique' would be fine, however Mauler doesn't just waste time he actually uses it to explain his arguments. - I didn't like TLJ, and after watching RLM, Wolf and _ESPECIALLY Mauler's_ videos I learned how much of a huge waste of potential it was, how many plot points doesn't make sense, it helped highlighting problems which I haven't noticed before because it actually was... a deep critique... pointing out small details even a bit of nit-picking, but he made points - and gave explanations. - It's difficult to follow a 5 hours critique when you have your own bias of not liking Mauler or loving TLJ, you have to keep an open mind and just try to listen to his points and I HIGHLY doubt both Eric and Jack actually did that - if they did they could point out their own counter-arguments, hell... maybe even agree with some of the points _(It's okay to like something even if it's flawed)_ , but they pretty much say: _Mauler make long videos just to make a long nitpick or tell you the story of the film for 5 hours padding them out so you could think it's a good critique when he is just wasting your time._ - I found Mauler's TLJ videos highly entertaining and informative, I play them while working or gaming, I have short attention span so I could get bored easily, yet surprisingly - I didn't! Guess it was entertaining enough for me to watch it, if you really can't watch the entire thing seriously, not skipping because - You think - it's a waste of time, then don't bother covering it just as a Film Critique wouldn't watch 1/3 of a movie and make a critique for it. Unless you're Jared... and he is the only one that allowed to do so.

[@OccamsKaBar]

I think rag's should have his own KZbin channel he's my favourite Efap side character

[@alynthequestseeker3017]

He... He does XD

[@smurfsareoppressed9584]

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic.

[@OccamsKaBar]

I am most definitely being sarcastic, I've been subscribed to him for years

[@clevergoblin1714]

He already has a spinoff show? Man! The success of the various MauLer shows gave us EFAP, and apparently Rag's has his own show; what's next? A Wolf spinoff show? I spent five minutes writing that, I'm ashamed.

[@smurfsareoppressed9584]

CleverGoblin 171 Don’t be

[@Convicted_Melon]

I'd feel mean if Eric Taxxon was actually a good person, but since he's not I don't at all feel bad saying he's one of the ugliest people I've ever seen.

[@KenDonMusicYT]

"It's doesn't really matter if wolf is correct about the things he's criticizing because he's wrong no matter what" I can't believe an adult human thought that this was a good and honest point to make as a criticism

[@keyan1219]

Didn’t they say that as in he isnt objectively right because it can’t be objective

[@Wackaz]

MauLer is the most pretentious and self-absorbed person on KZbin, and I genuinely can't believe he thinks that making loads of verbosely written videos = profound and detailed. He really doesn't have much to say, it's just so superfluous.

[@wordbearer8202]

@@Wackaz I suppose you haven't been introduced to the makeup community of youtube yet.

[@TheRufusT]

Im an adult human as well so now there are 2

[@filipmajewski8382]

@@Wackaz I find that comment ridiculous since I know MauLer's content quite well and he's quite the opposite of what you present him to be. The language he uses is as simple and understandable for everyone as he can possibly get, because " verbosely written videos" is precisely why people get confused with arguments. If Mauler is responding to someone, even in this exact god damn stream we're commenting under mind you, he points out how complicated words often carry no meaning or the meaning of them is obscure in the context of a youtube video. To see more examples of that, watch his response series about DS2 or EFAP about Downward Thrust. He openly criticizes the "novella style" of writing in these videos, using big words to represent empty points. Also in the context of EFAP, Mauler has to be the most humble person in the core group. Wolf and Rags will happily call someone a "retarded subhuman faggot", but not Mauler. How does one exactly not have much to say and is simultaniously infamous for his extremely long format? His breakdown of DS2 is a brilliant way to convey people's thoughts about the game in a comprehensible way. Yes, he often goes on tangent in his more subjective series he quite literally calls "an unbridled rage". What a person might expect from a video titled like this is beyond me at this point

[@Canaris3]

Just to be clear - Morgan Freeman wasnt a diversity hire in Shawshank Redemption. He was excellent at the casting and director just handwaved him being black and he got the role.

[@jedibrooks7235]

Do you have any links or proof of this? Not doubting you i just want to confirm this out of curiosity

[@samuel5591]

I would assume it was based on his acting too since 1994 was well before all the DEI bs really escalated (ie. 2016+) Also the fact he is a great actor, as opposed to someone 'diverse' who can't act for shit, which would be a clear example of boxchecking

[@Ragnarok311]

long critique isn't necessarily deep critique, but deep critique is usually long critique

[@BalthasarGelt-x2d]

Yeah, academics have made whole careers arguing about Shakespeare.

[@alexandersmatrala7641]

I love that most people who disagree with Mauler hide in the replies to other comments.

[@josephcurwehn7150]

"feeling" would have been a vague descriptor but tactile was just incorrect. Tactile adj. Perceptible to the sense of touch; tangible. adj. Characterized by or conveying an illusion of tangibility adj. Used for feeling: a tactile organ.

[@zygo0]

'They don't want to come on because they feel they might get ganged up on' ... This isn't a fucking street fight, it's an argument with WORDS. Having two people asking the same thing doesn't change the difficulty of answering it if you have an argument or answer based on evidence and facts, or if you're absolutely sure of it. It shouldn't matter if you have to argue against 2 people at once or 7 billion at once (setting volume aside, shut up) if you're trying to prove 2+2=4 ... Unless you're not sure 2+2=4 Hmm...

[@seathfury1697]

Funny thing here is that they are actually giving EFAP lots of material to work with! I mean Imagine the amount of Superchats they must have gotten through this whole thing. They try to harm you guys, but they just help you make more content it's amazing. (Will they ever realize that?).

[@Lv-sl3rm]

No they won't realize that. That's how far up their own asses they are.

[@seathfury1697]

@@Lv-sl3rm Good! more to laugh at.

[@professorthox4499]

7 hours for just one part too...

[@katawatenshu]

looks like sinsins uses safesearch, wat a babby this jack guy complains about eyerolling and then his immediate next 3 points he's eyerolling...

[@Potemkin4U]

Didn't Jack make a video saying the Sky High promoted eugenics? And that was 30+ minutes? So film critique is only okay if Jack agrees?

[@ieatgarbage8771]

When did Jack say film critique is bad?

[@kendyer8761]

@@ieatgarbage8771 he said long critique was bad while simultaneously having a long critique. That is hypocritical.

[@ieatgarbage8771]

Ken Dyer he didn’t say long critique was bad. He critiqued the process of watching a movie and pausing it every time something happens to roll your eyes without explaining why the thing is bad. The idea is that this style of reviewing doesn’t help someone understand the movie better. A lot of the time the style actually misleads viewers because intentional decisions intended to make a point are just written off as “objective flaws”

[@RonnieJamesDeodorant]

@@ieatgarbage8771 I'd say the long streams about TLJ helped me understand the objective flaws in it, and the incorrect arguments that tried to defend character arcs and contrivances in the film. They always clarify if they go on a tangent or if they didn't watch an essayists point in full context. Mauler even steelmans / gives the benefit of the doubt to the opposition so the audience doesn't jump to conclusions. Mauler even brings up at 41:15 the subjectivity of "What is deep?.... One person's deep is another person's shallow." They never just write something off as objectively flawed and never come back to it. It's always explained according to standards/definitions set by the media. And these flaws even exist in movies and reviewers they like. "Intention" can be anything and doesn't really dismiss criticism. 1:07:55 also addresses points in your comment

[@kylefrank638]

Doesn't that movie make a point of the exclusionary policies of the school being a PROBLEM? By the end, the sidekicks, who have been put down and treated as less important just because of their less-impressive powers, are respected for their initiative and heroism? How is any of that reflective of the movie saying the "sorting heroes out from sidekicks" thing was right? It's the exact opposite...

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

Can. You. Imagine. Going on to KZbin, and having the sheer magnitude of EFAP focused on your video, and your soul. Spirit breaking.

[@MrKecavis]

Ah yes I too fear tard legions

[@justaghostinthesea]

It'd be off to Switzerland for me

[@Theonetruefinalboss]

Even if we were to ignore the dishonest tactics used by Jack and Eric in this video, there's literally no points given for how MauLer's content is flawed or incorrect. He's given plenty of legitimate reasons for someone to DISLIKE MauLer's content, however. I can totally see someone being turned off by the length and objective lens, rather than short and subjective with flowery language and points. The point is, even if you don't care for his content, that DOES NOT make it flawed. There are plenty of other critics out there who can offer you the kind of thing you are looking for. Just because you don't get what you expect from a video, that doesn't make the video flawed. (Almost sounds like an argument some TLJ defenders make. Doesn't it?)

[@stoopidapples1596]

That's because his content isn't necessarily flawed or incorrect, the problem they have with him is that Mauler calls his work objective, over and over again, even though "objective criticism" is pretty much an oxymoron. This 7 hour video somehow manages to completely miss that and get the point "Long Man BAD!" out of it.

[@Theonetruefinalboss]

@@stoopidapples1596 It doesn't "miss that" because objective criticism is NOT an oxymoron. You're really going to have to try to make an argument for that. The "long man bad" thing is only a meme because of how much people like to reference how long mauler's is content is like it's some sort of criticism.

[@stoopidapples1596]

@@Theonetruefinalboss Nobody refers to Maulers content as bad anywhere here. The simple argument being made is that Mauler should stop calling his criticism objective because that's not a real thing. A criticism by definition requires an opinion. You can be high and mighty and pretend that your opinion is somehow objective because it's better than all the others, but anyone with half a brain will just see that 90% of mauler's content is subjective, and that's all a criticism ever can be.

[@Theonetruefinalboss]

@@stoopidapples1596 That is completely ridiculous. The definition of criticism, according to Google is: "the expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes." Where in there does it say ANYTHING about an opinion? No one is pretending their opinion is better than anyone else's. Stop making this into something it's not. MauLer's content is merely a mechanical breakdown of media. Clearly, you need some education on the words at play here. Objective: not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts Subjective: based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions If I make a statement such as "This chair has weak joints," that is inherently an OBJECTIVE statement that is critique. There is no emotive language in that statement. I can show that the chair has weak joints. If you were to say "That chair is ugly," I cannot give evidence to prove or disprove your statement. It is SUBJECTIVE.

[@stoopidapples1596]

@@Theonetruefinalboss "PERCEIVED", comeon man, if you're going to do dictionary bullshit you may as well read the definition.

[@tristandpc]

I like how Jack is simultaneously claiming that a sequel should be self-contained (since it's not a given that the audience has seen the previous film) and that including a plot summary of the thing you're critiquing is bad and unecessary (since it's a given that the audience has seen the film).

[@Kenmiester2012]

Agreed. Long Critique isn't good critique. Good critique is good critique. And usually in order to go into enough detail to be good, the author's critique gets rather long. So Good Critique is often Long Critique.

[@ATG_reviews]

Postcolonialmarines lens

[@stoopidapples1596]

Yeah, there's totally nothing colonial to look at about star wars, it's not like the big bad guy is the empire or anything, naaaaaaaah

[@superapm9620]

"*Duuuuuh WaT iZ AaAAa jOK!?!*" stoopid apples, 2019

[@TheJst100]

@@stoopidapples1596 Okay, so I am an English major, 2 and a half years in. (This comment is gonna have english errors btw because i don't care to proofread it) Mauler is inherently looking at this movie from post-colonialism. This is because TLJ was released after colonialism ended. He doesn't comment on the ties to colonialism in the movie because they aren't actually important nor are they thought out. The first order is not allegorical to any historical colonial power, The empire is but the first order is not.This is in large part due to the lack of world building, there is no solid foundation for the colonialism allegory to stand on. It is incredibly moronic to say that Mauler isn't looking at this movie through that lens because we live in that lens. It's not as if he could realistically look at it from a Pre-Colonialism lens or from the perspective of a colonist because he isn't from either of those times and this movie was made after those times. He is understanding the movie as presented which is post-colonialism. Jack is making an argument that can barely be proved by taking Mauler out of context but also is contradictory to his own view on art. While i don't agree with Mauler on all things, especially not how he treats language, or how he interprets arguments, though that is a problem shared by everyone on EFAP, Prime Example the problem they had with using Tactile. I got what Jack was saying instantly, too bad it was the last good point made in his video, I do think that Mauler makes Quallity content and If i were to take into account arguments about art from Jack or Eric, then that is all that matters. Why make a critique of someone where you try to prove his content is bad if his content is art and therefore is subjective and can't be objectively proven bad? or is it really just a 52 minute video about how two people subjectively dislike someone?

[@stoopidapples1596]

@TheGreaterGood80 Sure, empires and kingdoms are found throughout fiction. What's that supposed to disprove?

[@stoopidapples1596]

@@TheJst100 "Mauler is inherently looking at this movie from post-colonialism. This is because TLJ was released after colonialism ended." What? Are you saying that because TLJ has post-colonial themes, therefore if MauLer does a review on TLJ, then he is inherently addressing the post-colonial themes? "He doesn't comment on the ties to colonialism in the movie because they aren't actually important nor are they thought out." They aren't important? Idk, if MauLer makes 9 hour reviews and decide "thatch-looking roofs" are important enough to point out, are they really that unimportant to him? "The first order is not allegorical to any historical colonial power, The empire is but the first order is not." Post-Colonial, not Colonial. "This is in large part due to the lack of world building, there is no solid foundation for the colonialism allegory to stand on." This is you criticizing the movie, so I'm not going to go after you here. If you think there is insufficient world-building, that's your opinion, personally I think the universe has been built just as well as the original trilogy, though perhaps not as much as the prequels. Both our opinions are subjective however. "It is incredibly moronic to say that Mauler isn't looking at this movie through that lens because we live in that lens." ??? Are you saying that because we live in a post-colonial lens that therefore MauLer is constantly looking at stuff through a post-colonial lens? Or are you saying that I was moronic for saying that "Mauler isn't looking at this movie through that lens because we live in that lens."? "It's not as if he could realistically look at it from a Pre-Colonialism lens or from the perspective of a colonist because he isn't from either of those times and this movie was made after those times. He is understanding the movie as presented which is post-colonialism." I don't think you understand what a lens is in this context. This is not us trying to put ourselves in the perspective from post-colonial times and analyzing it that way. This is us observing the aspects of post-colonialism in the movie. "Jack is making an argument that can barely be proved by taking Mauler out of context" I'd recommend watching Jack's reply to MauLer if you think Jack was taking him out of context. Except we all know you won't. "but also is contradictory to his own view on art." How? "While i don't agree with Mauler on all things, especially not how he treats language, or how he interprets arguments, though that is a problem shared by everyone on EFAP, Prime Example the problem they had with using Tactile. I got what Jack was saying instantly, too bad it was the last good point made in his video," I found this as a good clear example of how MauLer is a victim of the Dunning Kruger effect. Also, he wasn't really making a point by using the word tactile. MauLer and co. made it an argument by not knowing what the word tactile is, and even after looking it up, they still didn't understand what it was. "I do think that Mauler makes Quallity content and If i were to take into account arguments about art from Jack or Eric, then that is all that matters." Sure, if you enjoy MauLer, then I have no problem with you continuing to watch him. Just like how I'd like to enjoy TLJ and Black Panther without MauLer and his fanboys claiming that I am objectively wrong in my opinion. "Why make a critique of someone where you try to prove his content is bad if his content is art and therefore is subjective and can't be objectively proven bad? or is it really just a 52 minute video about how two people subjectively dislike someone?" Yes, criticism is subjective. Just because something is not objective does not mean that there is no need to change it. Human life has no objective value, but do you think there's no point to it? If every single human being on earth didn't like something you do, that's still not objective but should you change it? Yes.

[@Horvath_Gabor]

I honestly can't wrap my head around how people don't get that"forced diversity" is not bad because of the "diversity" part, but because of the "forced" part, and people are really against it because 99% of the time it comes with immersion-breaking political posturing in tow. Why is it so hard to understand that this annoys people? Aren't these the same guys who are annoyed by most of the typical action-adventure-shooter type game protagonists being white men with dark hair in their twenties? It's the same kind of forced, except instead of due to diversity quotas, it's because of "focus groups" and "target demographics". It's the other bullshit side of the same bullshit coin, yet they seem to be perfectly willing to ignore it since it falls in line with their politics...

[@MyRickyjoe]

Best not to talk about the black suffragettes in RDR2, it upsets people.

[@dogeyes7261]

@Dog House and the sad thing is all these well meaning ppl who get pumped full of guilt for things they didn't do are rendered powerless by this guilt and used just to prop up a system that exploits and oppresses most ppl regardless of race gender etc

[@MarvinFalz]

@Dog House "Guilt for the past" That is a theory, which can be applied to the German Leftists, who become increasingly authoritarian and anti-democratic, allegedly in order to save democracy, tolerance, diversity and so on against the racist white patriarchal Right. It seems like that most of the Leftists, who are now in political power in Germany are the children of the real Nazis of the 3rd Reich. The theory is that they feel so deeply guilty for what their fathers have done, they flee into intersectional feminism and actively try to destroy traditional society, which they believe automatically leads to war and genocide. Since the teachings of intersectional feminism have the potential to lead to insanity, those who are already mentally unstable, get even moe unstable, adeven more unable to cope with feelings of guilt and whatnot. So they don't see any contradiction between fighting a perceived fire with fire.

[@rockerknight25]

I know this is a year old, buuuut The reason moat action heroes are caucasian men with brown hair is because it's easiest to reproduce with cgi. I would argue the "in their 20s" part is inaccurate and more to do with the stories being told or the target demographics, but I want to put that aside. It is easier to make a character stand out from the environment by making them light-skinned, and it is hard to make blonde hair that is still visible from the distance of a camera to the protagonist. Likewise, modeling hit boxes to men is easier than women because men tend to be more block shaped. Of course, you can have a slim woman, but slim women in action games strain suspension of disbelief if they have to perform actions that require substantial strength.

[@kylenegaard6461]

@@rockerknight25 Not anymore, just go with the proven philosophy of Abby, the 'beefiest', 'strongest' 'women' from Last of Us 2, a solid way to have any type of women in any kind of game with 3d environments.

[@jameslewis7161]

“Skip to halfway of the third part and you miss nothing.” Honestly enough I think that skips the entire scene by scene breakdown and he says that’s nothing... wow, just wow.

[@PlaylistGeneral]

Scene-by-scene breakdown is inherently worthless in itself because you're just describing things that happened in the movie, which we all presumably saw. It's like writing an essay and having all the examples used for evidence in later statements right at the top in one big chunk. There's no wrong way to do it, but if you're trying to make a point when writing something it's going to be a lot clearer if you stick to the point.

[@caseywensnahan3543]

@@PlaylistGeneral it kinda depends what is meant by scene by scene breakdown sure what you described may be worthless however what if instead of simply describing each scene you instead broke down each scene in order to analyze what happened in each scene and why.

[@jedibrooks7235]

Long man bad is objectively the best efap meme

[@HerohammerStudios]

But what about the theeeeeemes

[@Armageddon_71]

@@HerohammerStudios I think they did the themes okay the way they did it. Or alternatly "Oh my god he's a queer."

[@vanillabatcave5677]

"They hate us cuz ur *reviews* is bigger!"

[@HimothyHimsworthy]

Efap memers are under appreciated and deserve their own 3 hour long reviews from the efap crew each, to show just how much their memes mean to this community

[@HimothyHimsworthy]

Creamy Sheev Palpatine sorry to hear that, have you found a way to keep it up

[@HimothyHimsworthy]

Creamy Sheev Palpatine now that’s disappointing

[@GraySheep1717]

This get's the FarmHouse seal of approval

[@RogueFox2185]

So we have Quinton, hbomberguy and now Jack who all have it out for MauLer and Wolf, so the next challenger probably is gonna straw-man them like none other before.

[@HimothyHimsworthy]

Rogue Fox I honestly regret ever shit talking Quinton in reference to Mauler, Jack completely surpassed him in being a pretentious douchebag

[@RogueFox2185]

Barry Bat Quinton better step his game up now since he has competition and honestly Jack may even surpass all the other disingenuous assholes at this point, which I didn’t even think was possible.

[@unpopularopinions7407]

to be fair im not sure if HBG really cares that much

[@nickdahl203]

If all the strawmen combine together, do you think the monstrosity they create is more similar to Voltron, or Captain Planet?

[@darthsonic4135]

Rogue Fox Yeah... kinda underselling things here. MauLer holds little animosity towards Quinton and hbomberguy, and while Quinton MIGHT hate MauLer, hbomberguy probably doesn’t. Those two are simply Internet rivals to MauLer. Jack and MauLer though? Check their Twitters: they fucking LOATHE each other now. Like, I’m pretty sure they’d get into a fist fight if they ever met. I know Wolf would definitely get into a fist fight if he met Jack. I certainly can’t say the same for either Quinton or hbomberguy.

[@habes1486]

"LONG MAN BAD!" *makes an hour long critique video that he admits can be shorter

[@DoomTone11]

He made the first 4 minutes twice as long on purpose, so it's OK!

[@kingkwon8002]

The irony is appalling

[@markhirsch6301]

I brought that up on his video lol

[@sadywootten7668]

I read a lot of his supporters' comments on his own channel. They do not fundamentally understand how things work.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

@@sadywootten7668 The thing is with them is that they are SJWs so they operate entirely on the paradigm of "does it hurt my fee fees or does it kiss my boo boo"

[@ryanrodriguez3319]

Long critique, isn't INHERENTLY deep critique. There, I fixed it.

[@e.c.winner7252]

I hate so much that he’s using Cowboy Bebop music. It’s too good for him.

[@PBMusiko]

Let me just say, that I really enjoyed this stream. I actually watched it all the way through in one go when it was live (was very difficult towards the end, but I survived). It was actually really nice watching your videos in between for context, the last six minutes of your Infinity War video and Rag's reaction to it was definitely a highlight for me (also can't believe he actually tried to deny it wasn't the last six minutes he was talking about), and I'm actually really sad that Jack and Eric didn't get anything from them. Anyways, I thoroughly enjoyed every second of it and can't wait for the next one. Now for a rant, though (sorry for the whiplash, but I have to say this). I'm just about almost convinced that Jack's video was some kind of bait, because there are quite a few places in the video where it seems like Jack is purposely being facetious just to get some kind of response from Mauler and possibly fans as well. Not to mention, Jack seemed extremely quick to pounce on EFAP as soon as it started. He was tweeting about it minutes after it started (even though it wasn't exactly planned for that day) before you guys even started watching, like Jack was waiting for it, and it was clear from the first tweet on that he wasn't expecting much from it (or expected that it would automatically be bad), or simply wanted to watch it just to pick it apart, before the stream even really started. It was like he had no intention of actually listening to you, and was being unnecessarily antagonistic. It honestly extremely annoyed me also that he was using twitter of all things to respond to you guys and you guys had to resort to people reporting what he was tweeting in response. It was extremely cowardly and as the stream was going on I kept wondering why he didn't just use the stream chat (he used it like 2-3 times and that's it from what I noticed), it just didn't make sense, and would've made things so much easier. I really want to give Jack the benefit of the doubt, I could be very wrong about most if not all of what I just said and was just reading too deep, but he made that very difficult with his behavior during the stream. Eric seemed much more genuine compared to him. I am honestly starting to get to the point that I think some people are only criticizing about Mauler just so they can get attention and a response back. You guys are 22 EFAPs in now (or 23? according to part 2), you really shouldn't still be having to explain yourselves by this point, when practically everything they need to understand is already available to them.

[@Lv-sl3rm]

Well that's the problem with these fucking idiots. You have to explain everything to them. EVERY. SINGLE. DAMN. TIME. Mauler can be as clear as he can about what he means, what his video's structure is, what he hopes to achieve with a video (so on and so forth), but you know what they say about making things fail-safe, fools will find a way to break it.

[@kylefrank638]

Jack calling "the objective lens" "MauLer's own" is so dumb. MauLer hasn't laid claim to objectivity as being the only standard by which to judge a story. It's not like NO ONE ELSE subscribes to that same standard. His arguments aren't less valid just because he doesn't ALSO watch TLJ with a post-moderinst-colonial-Marxist-whatever mindset. He finds oddities in continuity, as well as script-breaking issues with character consistency, motivation... But Jack and Eric aren't going to actually address that, being tools. ;-(

[@lumeronswift]

I like that the premise of their video is almost backwards... long critique CAN be (but is not necessarily) deep; on the other hand, short critique by default cannot be deep because it is necessarily adhering to a deadline. Short critique has to do one of the following: 1) skip points/topics, 2) skim on arguments/proof/examples, or 3) both. But Gandalf's approach is superior - no matter how long it might take, he will arrive at the end of his critique precisely when he means to.

[@jeremyusreevu237]

"Bu...but I don't have time for long videos! I can't sit down and watch an entire video, and I don't understand the concept of splitting up my viewing period into chunks, so it's automatically bad. My short attention span means videos need to be short!"

[@gottesurteil3201]

Yeah it really sucks, people will lie about you blatantly and yet their viewers just shut down and accept their words as gospel. Like how the media lied about those Catholic high schoolers, literal altar boys probably. The truth is greater in the end, but lies always leave a scar and you are more than welcome to defend your character and the content you worked so hard to make.

[@HimothyHimsworthy]

Nathan Higgins remember that this community is the hugbox yet on Jack’s video you have to search far and wide for a comment against the points being made in the video

[@creeperboom8635]

@@HimothyHimsworthy hugbox?

[@HimothyHimsworthy]

creeper boooom they say we follow efap without question yet actively worship Jack and Eric

[@creeperboom8635]

@@HimothyHimsworthy ah right thanks for the explanation

[@AverageBloom357]

It's very indicative of Eric and Jack's character that they mostly use clips from the Unbridled series rather than any of Maulers actual critiques.

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

That's not true. Most of the clips they actually analyze are from the video on the last jedi, which is stated to be a critique. I'm surprised you missed that detail, Mauler fans are so good at nitpicking and... No, just nitpicking.

[@AverageBloom357]

@@itcouldbelupus2842 (Cont)5:49:58 has Jack continuing to die on his little hill and he uses a clip from (you guessed it) the BPR. Fucking again. Can you believe that this continues with yet another clip from the rage series at 5:54:56? Because I sure as fuck can. 5:59:10 has Jack showing another clip of Wolf and Mauler on Wolf's podcast again, and again this is nowhere close to being a formal critique. Thankfully Eric comes in again, and it's genuinely amazing to me how relieved I feel to have someone finally talk about TLJ instead of BP. We finally get another clip from the TLJ critique at 6:05:20, and it's incredible that it's only our third one over half an hour into Jack's video. Eric proceeds to ALMOST understand Mauler's point about how bad the themes were done in TLJ but completely fucks it at the end, though I can at least say that he does use a clip from the TLJ critique at 6:10:21. Thank god he's at least able to do that. Eric then uses another short clip at 6:11:46, and at this point it seems to me that Eric is the only one that's at least trying to keep the unbridled series and the formal critiques separate unlike Jack. I would be lying if I said that I had less respect for Eric than Jack, cause frankly the opposite is true (though Eric is still shit and his forced diversity video really highlights just how shit). Eric is the only one who is attempting to be somewhat fair and address the real critiques, though he's pretty god awful at it like when he says straw mans like Mauler said 'visuals don't matter' when what he actually said was that in terms of good writing the visuals are nowhere near as important since they'll age while a good story is timeless (6:13:28). At 6:22:14 Eric again uses another clip the TLJ critique and he does actually acknowledge that there are problems with the film and the arguments that are made for it, however he brushes it aside saying that they don't bother him and that it's subjective for him. Unfortunately all good things must come to an end, and Jack yet again rears his ugly little face back and proceeds to talk about Mauler's Predator rage video with a clip from it at 6:55:40. Just in case you missed it, that video is definitely not a formal critique, and is not TLJ either. And that's the end of part 1 of the video. Going over to part 2, 5:41 has Jack FINALLY using a god damn TLJ critique clip, and then fucking ruins the moment immediately by following that clip with yet another clip from Wolf's podcast with Mauler. Jesus fuck, he can't even stay on the actual critique for longer than 6 fucking seconds without changing to something completely different. After straw manning harder than anyone's straw manned before, we finally go back to Eric and Jesus fuck is it hard to watch him with his nipples hanging out. The next clip that is played at 22:57 is from Mauler's TFA critique, though I don't blame you too much if you believed it was from TLJ. It must be hard not using your brain, though I can't possibly relate. Thankfully shirtless Eric doesn't last for too long and after using a very short clip from the rage series at 41:07 (Luke drinking the milk and Mauler saying "what the fuck" is in literally every single rage video), we finally go back to Jack for the last time. Jack then claims that the first hour of the TFA critique was just Mauler complaining about twitter arguments and shows a clip from it at 45:52. If he had actually watched the intro, he would know that this is a blatant lie and a mischaracterization of Mauler entirely. And while this may be from one of his formal critiques, your point of the clips mostly being from the TLJ critique is still laughably wrong considering we have less than 8 minutes left in Jack's video and there have only been 8 clips compared to the 19 others that have no relation to the TLJ critique. Quite literally over double the amount. 53:07 shows yet another clip from the TFA critique, not TLJ. 59:54 has a clip from the Solo rage (It had been a while since Jack used Solo clips so I'm sure he was just nostalgic, right? No? Oh). After Jack makes yet another straw man (and is beaten by his own straw man at that, what a fucking moron) he decides to use another clip from the Solo rage video at 1:03:06. Thankfully he eventually does get back on track (not really) and shows the very last TLJ critique clip at 1:15:42, and also the very last clip in the video. So for a final count, we have 22 clips that have no relation to the TLJ critique and 9 that are actually from it. So please do enlighten me, what is your definition of 'most'? Because unless you literally think that 'less than' actually means 'more than', your entire point is invalid and incorrect. Was this longer than it needed to be? Probably, yes. But you wanna know the thing that's actually correct about Mauler fans instead of your 'nitpicking' idea? We like facts, thinking critically, genuine analysis, and are willing to put in the effort and time to prove or disprove a point. Which is unfortunate for you, you insipid troglodyte. This lesson is now over, so please go buy a 10 foot dildo, crawl back into your little hole, and go fuck yourself. Thank you, and have a wonderful day!

[@rockerknight25]

@@AverageBloom357 Good job. This also highlights why idiots who complain about length are wrong. It takes seconds to say something wrong, and hours to do the research to prove it was wrong.

[@AverageBloom357]

@@rockerknight25 Thank you, it's very unfortunate that the first part of the comment was removed for whatever reason. I may go back and rewrite it and timestamp again so that the second part makes complete sense

[@fluff6811]

@@AverageBloom357 Holy crap what an absolute saint you are! This is an impressive degree of debunking and I only wish this comment had more exposure. Also I do find it funny that he thinks nitpicking is invalid.

[@SefniAsheforr]

Interesting that they reference Noah Caldwell-Gervais. Despite him being a little on the lefty-looney side, Noah makes legitimately great content a lot of the time. Despite my problems with a lot of his political views, I always look forward to videos he makes on my favorite games. Ironically, he's actually the perfect example of how shitty these two are, because Noah can have very divisive ideological opinions, yet still draw in many people like me with his content. People like Eric and Jack (as well as that joke Lily Orchard) don't have the ability to make honest and substantive content (that transends purely subjective political opinions), thus, they become nothing more than ideological vitriol channels. Sorry, but Noah doesn't deserve the disservice of being mentioned by these two hacks.

[@hariman7727]

Noah Caldwell-Gervais has the problem that if the game brings up real world politics, it gets filtered through his biases, to the detriment of his reviews.

[@thedishonoredamerican129]

Thank you MauLer. I was here for almost the whole time. Who else was?

[@iudfr]

I passed out for a little bit, but yea...I technically was.

[@jamesparsley5796]

When I woke up 5 other viewers were still 'watching' the ended stream with me so I suppose I came 6th in how long I watched.

[@souleater4242564kodd]

Listened to it all throughout work, ran to the bathroom more than usual, but my supervisor didn't notice.

[@Longshanks1690]

@Suicide Grunts of America Basically. I started dozing off about 4 AM and keeled over with just my phone so my Laptop wouldn't be on ALL night, lmao.

[@Arko777777]

I had to go to sleep because it was 4.30 AM so I had to pass the 2nd part of the stream.

[@gusvisser9043]

Step 1: Vibranium rock from space smacks in to Africa Step 2: Primitive Wakanda person hits Vibranium rock with other Vibranium rock Step 3: ?????????? Step 4: SUPER FUTURE SPACE TECHNOLOGY!!

[@GlassGolem]

I would add a "Step 5: Profit" ... but Walkanda don't sell anything to non-Walkandians, do they?

[@PurpleColonel]

People who shit on Black Panther cuz diversity or contrivances don't get the source material even slightly.

[@syddasquidgaming6874]

wat?

[@bishopthefool]

but how do they mine vibranium? what tool do they use? is it at least explained in the comics?

[@silvergrove8517]

@TheGreaterGood80 of course not lol. They're not like those "CoLoNiZeRs" you know, they are naturally unable to be an all-conquering civilization like all of the other great civilizations :D

[@arrowknee7356]

@2:33:34 I've watched multiple of his critiques the whole way through multiple times. That's what happens when good content is made.

[@beircheartaghaistin2332]

1:42:00 Red, from Shawshank Redemption, is actually an example of 'organic diversity', not 'forced diversity'. Morgan was not hired just to have a black man in the story, nor was he hired just because he was black. Morgan killed that audition so damn hard, they changed the character to be black. He was hired for his merit, and his inclusion meant a minor change. It had no impact on the setting, time period, or plot.

[@SaintMaxxi]

When Jack intros Eric he's saying he's going to get a drink, goes to get up, then sits back down. Quality editing is an analog of the whole video

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

Yeah... Like just actually get out of the chair and out of frame... Or actually cut the shot so we don't see you being lazy.

[@trajanthegreat2928]

Jack's whole video really comes down to him not liking Mauler's style, it's completely subjective and yet he's portraying it as "Mauler makes bad content because I don't like it". If he had just said "Mauler does videos like this. I personally don't like it but it's due to subjective reasons, and here they are" then that would be honest at least and there could be a good-faith discussion about Mauler's style, but instead he's painting Mauler's content as objectively bad

[@ryanrodriguez3319]

How ironic.

[@bigslurpee2078]

@@ryanrodriguez3319 not really.

[@callumbreton8930]

@@bigslurpee2078 hes stating that his objective criticisms are subjective, objectively. This is hypocritical because he says that his factual criticisms are factually opinions, and that is a fact in itself rather than his own opinion. Pretty hypocritical

[@n3rdm4n]

@23:00 "Who makes multiple videos on the same subject" Well, essentially everyone that's ever made a sequel to anything in movies. George Lucas did that, for one.

[@pieminator6969]

Jack is envious of Mauler's L E N G T H

[@DesudroXuror]

what about Girth? Praise Jared 🦏🥛

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

Well, lucky him, he got both of them shoved in his mouth during this EFAP.

[@Ralndrath]

So...he's saying 'good long critiques are only critiques that I agree with and made by people who I agree with politically too.'

[@arlaghdoth4434]

That's literally the first half of Jack's video.

[@theskeehlrbrotherhood5129]

If you actually watched the video and didn't just make strawman arguements then sure. But the point of the video was that just because a critique is long , that's not an inherent indicator of quality.

[@Ralndrath]

@@theskeehlrbrotherhood5129 yeah you'd think that if you're an idiot like you who couldn't read the oh so 'subtle', 'subtle' subtext of his brain dead video. Oh, a long video doesn't mean it's good criticism, such a revelatory statement! It can be true sure, but longer videos or articles are far more likely to go into far more detail as to what's wrong and why, so it's far more likely to articulately say why.

[@theskeehlrbrotherhood5129]

Ben Agar Cite your sources. Where in the video does he imply this "subtext" you are talking about? Yes I agree, a longer critique also isn't inherently bad either. The point of the video was that Mauler's content specifically is long but lacks real depth because it's a series of nitpicks.

[@Debicus]

@@theskeehlrbrotherhood5129 There are nitpicks in his critiques, because he is going through the whole film. But he also brings up large and major problems. When you're analyzing a film using the chronological method he does. It is not just nitpicks.

[@charmandyorton006]

1:24:29 This was the very moment when the misrepresentation of the EFAP group's character by Saint and Taxxon went from bad to aggressively heinous. 1:58:57 Wolf has every right in the world to express this much infuriation with Saint and Taxxon's shameless tomfuckery with representing content creators. 3:44:08 This is what I came back to the stream video to hear again.

[@NicktheLongman]

@Jessiebeanie 11 hours, and yes.

[@eyesfullofsky9776]

Thanks bunches for the timestamps. Whenevever I need to explain anything about misrepresentation, I can use this as a sort of example of reference point of wholesale, shameless and blatantly malicious misrepresentation. Eric knows all of MauLer's haters don't care for context, and he's assuming many of his own fans who don't know who MauLer is simply own't question his honesty. It's fucking disgusting. Anyway, thanks again and toodles and take care!

[@SgtKOnyx]

MauLer drops constant jokes in the critique video with the visuals, how in the world can he "not edit"?

[@GigaChadh976]

I mean, the man just has jumpcuts and narrates over footage so I don’t know why he’s slinging all that shit

[@ZenoDovahkiin]

If 15 hours for a film is too long, then it logically follows that, applying this on a lower scale, two pages of analysis about an eight verse poem too long. Now how many high school teachers can we get behind this idea?

[@Agiranto]

1:37:22 - Jay: Bojack horseman is a good show. Suddenly, a warp gate opens and a plague doctor-man slowly crawls out from the future , angrily whispering "Noooooooooooo, it is not"

[@igorpedro8995]

NOOOOOOOUGH

[@fluff6811]

You misspelled “NOUGH”

[@justincruz5720]

I mean, he’s wrong, but that’s his opinion and that’s completely valid. 😆

[@gottesurteil3201]

Rewatching this and seeing the last six minutes of your A:IW praise video, I can say that for someone who is accused of hating themes and dismissing subjectivity, you have perhaps the best takes on themes than most video essayists. That isn't hard considering they just give a first impression take using the first draft.

[@devilboy9992]

the reason they think your right wing is because you like free speech and are relatively sane love you guys

[@dogeyes7261]

There are too many evangelicals and trumptards to ever think that about the right wing

[@janehrahan5116]

Not even. Unless you count every trump voter as a trumptard in which case might I suggest it is you who has been a bit brainwashed?

[@Handles_AreStupid]

I know this is quite an old stream, but the argument at 1:30:00ish about diversity is simply that if you look for diversity above talent, you are not guaranteed talent. It's like clicking "sort by newest" on a list and hoping to find quality content. The order in which you apply filters when searching for something will impact your search results, obviously...

[@michaeldorsey9231]

I'm reflecting on this internet drama with Mauler, and I can't help but compare Mauler to Socrates. I'm not saying Mauler's some revolutionary philosopher of film criticism, but the way other reviewers disagree with Mauler really brings my thoughts back to Socrates. Like Socrates, Mauler makes many claims while intending to be objective. Like other Greek philosophers of Socrates time, film reviewers will routinely call out Mauler for his practices, the worst of them mischaracterizing his intent. And even more like Socrates, Mauler will listen to his opposition's points, though he won't cave to them if their arguments have objective flaws.

[@Longshanks1690]

@michael dorsey Socrates didn't drink rhino milk. How can you possibly compare them?

[@mylesgaddy8867]

@@Longshanks1690 But he did drink rhino Hemlock.

[@HimothyHimsworthy]

Interesting take

[@stoopidapples1596]

I'd compare him more to a flat-earther, or any other conspiracy theorist. He believes he has the absolute truth when really he doesn't know much in the grand scheme of things. If anything, it's a great example of the dunning crueger effect.

[@michaeldorsey9231]

"He believes he has the absolute truth when really he doesn't know much in the grand scheme of things" Mauler claims to be going for objectivity; he does NOT claim to be above making mistakes. He has acknowledged flaws in regards to factual information that he's gotten wrong in past videos. Every flat earther I've seen refused to change their viewpoint, even when they've been proven to be factually wrong. Prove Mauler's points wrong, and he'll be open-minded enough to admit it.

[@jackofmanycolors4694]

What people like Jack Saint argue for is not critique. There is nothing to be gleaned from looking at Star Wars from a "post-colonial" perspective. It's just an excuse to worm their insidious politics into everything. That's why they don't view MauLer as deep; Because he talks about what's actually in the film.

[@sirtoby4939]

Do you know what a "post-colonial perspective" implies?

[@jackofmanycolors4694]

@@sirtoby4939 An examination of the cultural impact of colonialism on a work of art.

[@sirtoby4939]

@@jackofmanycolors4694 And you think nothing can be gleaned by applying this perspective to Star Wars? A franchise that has, for instance, depicted Imperialism as an inherently and absolutely evil enterprise, since the 70's? You don't think the colonial legacy that we currently live in somewhat, somewhere, inspired George Lucas in his depictions of, among other things, the Empire?

[@Longshanks1690]

@SirToby Ironic that you're acting like this belongs to you when it's been one of our main criticisms of TLJ since day one: the worldbuilding. The Galaxy of Star Wars is absolute prime material for examining the impact of decades of Imperial rule and the attempts of the New Republic to examine how, where and why you make the Galaxy a better place than it was under the Empire. Not just to restore freedom but to show that Law, Order and Justice are possible without the Empire's iron fisted approach to it? Or, you could show the Empire's perspective. That in a orderless Galaxy, the Empire is remembered with nostalgia in the Outer Rim whereas the Senate brings freedom but no protection and examine the debate between the two in a serious manner. You could make a whole film out of that in Star Wars! And what do we get? Anti-Capitalism propaganda and giant milk monsters. As MauLer has emphasises repeatedly in his series, the world building and lore of the Sequels is beyond atrocious, extremely limiting in it's perspectives and recycling everything that came before so the Galaxy is in exactly the same place as it was. It's impossible to examine the new Star Wars through a post-colonialist lense since there is no post-colonial (or post-Imperial in this case) period. The Empire is as strong at the end of ROTJ as it is at the start of TFA. The death of Palpatine weakened it a bit and the destruction of Hosnian Prime restored it to full strength. What the fuck has changed, and why should I care to examine this lazily written trash?

[@HimothyHimsworthy]

King Edward "Longshanks" I, Hammer of the Scots, Lord of Wales and King of England Probably my biggest problem with the new trilogy is the that it feels like the exact same setting with different people fighting the same villains whereas if we were to put the prequel and original trilogy beside each other it feels like a world that has evolved and developed, like comparing America from the 70’s to the early 2000’s

[@Titanic_Tuna]

Funny that these people always have to call a friend in these hit pieces, they can never argue on their own. Edit: Referring to "Saint" and Taxxon.

[@Adorni]

I don’t get how people don’t understand the concept of “Forced Diversity” in a world where Hamilton exists. To wit: The casting for a historically-based early-American piece of theatrical performance was opened up to more than just white people. That’s perfectly fine, if your intention is to show a happy little idealized version of America as representing “All of us.” Ideally, it broadens the range of perspective talent. But, everyone who is a fan of “Hamilton” needs to answer me this question: The person who plays Hamilton is black. Did he get that role because he was the best actor for the part? Or did he get it because he’s black? And if he got it because he was black, why did the casting director make this decision?

[@Adorni]

Oof Oof No, but Michael Luwoye was. He played Hamilton in the first U.S. tour. Miranda, however, was also the creator and lyricist of Hamilton, the Musical. And while this might give him talent warranted for the lead role, I personally find it to be a little crass. Further, he intentionally chose people of color for the roles of the founding fathers, because, in his words, “our cast looks like America, now.” I want to let that statement, and its implications, sink in for a moment.

[@gottesurteil3201]

@@Adorni interesting he brings that up, because if he wanted his cast to "look like America now" given our nation's demography compared to the number of cast members, there should only be one black character in the entire cast.

[@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527]

Adorni But like they said in the video, that doesn’t necessarily make it bad either. And besides that, race and gender blind casting is a pretty common thing in theatre. My school play last year had a white girl play a male Haitian death god and she absolutely killed in the role.

[@Adorni]

@@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 That's good to know, and not that I want to beat a proverbially dead horse, but was the girl a drama student? Or was she cast for that role BECAUSE she was female and they wanted to be subversive or were concerned that if they didn't give her the part, people would be making accusations of sexism or favoritism? However much she may have killed it, how much of her actual stage talent was a consideration compared to other factors? The point I'm trying to make, similar to the one in the video, is not that Forced Diversity automatically makes something bad. It's that it exists because of ridiculous, overly sensitive people who are actually doing the people they "represent" a disservice by saying that the only way they can ensure they get something is if it's GIVEN to them. Obviously nepotism and unfairness exists. The reason why I brought up the question of that girl was because it's a common practice in high school and college drama classes for drama students to get some kind of role, because they need the credits for their courses. It's kind of unfair and stacks the bar against those who aren't students, but that's the way the system is, so to speak. Since no one, I think even Wolf, has bothered to bring this up, I'll point it out. Ripley was originally supposed to be a male, but Sigourney Weaver, almost through pure serendipity from all accounts, managed to show up and impressed Ridley Scott and the Produces enough to convince them to change the role. It had nothing to do with Weaver being a woman, and everything to do with how well she carried herself and performed. Rey was always going to be a woman, because Kennedy wanted more women in Star Wars, and Daisy Ridley is kind of nice looking and put in an audition tape where she cried a little. It doesn't hurt that she, at least, seems to have some feminists ideas and what not. She was cast because, for all intents and purposes, everyone on the team looked at her and said "... Eh, good enough." And then proceeded to try and convince everyone how awesome she was by giving her the ability to do all the things, including running without needing someone to hold her hand. One was cast for talent, and wound up being not just a female character icon, but a _character_ icon, while the other was cast to fill a quota and was being sold to us as an icon, but wound up being flat as a wooden plank, and will be largely forgotten once this trilogy is about a year out. No one will who watches Alien will forget who Ripley is, and everyone who watches the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy will ask "who?" when inquired about Rey.

[@atreides213]

Adorni Old comment I know, but does it matter in the slightest that Hamilton was played by a black man? If he was good in the role, why not? Generally, I don’t care what race the actors are if the acting is good, and second guessing whether someone ‘earned’ the role is just unhealthy.

[@olimar1034]

I don’t even have a witty comment,it’s just sad that people would go this low, even lower than Quinton. I think y’all are perfectly justified in your anger, and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

[@Muck006]

Anger? Maybe ... but I'd more see it as "disappointment" in some kids "grandstanding without the balls to defend their opinions live". That is my position on todays "leftists" (which they clearly are) ... the inability to think clearly and to "explain away stuff using postmodernist fuzzy language and buzzwords". Language NEEDS to be precise ... and anyone from a "christian country" should know the story of the Tower of Babel and/or George Orwell's novel 1984. Sadly university teachers declare these things to be "evil" and replace them with their own garbage that turns kids into people who are afraid to say "but the emperor has no clothes"!

[@ProxyDoug]

@@Muck006 You should see the comment section, I haven't seen so many people grandstanding over shit since gamergate.

[@stoopidapples1596]

@@Muck006 Daily reminder George Orwell was a communist. Now fuck off.

[@bleckofbleh2295]

stoopid apples Doesn’t that make it worse? The fact a commie could be far more moderate and not insert his politics into his work yet modern day leftists do?

[@stoopidapples1596]

@@bleckofbleh2295 He didn't ever insert politics into this video... Jack mentioned that Mauler doesn't talk about feminist literacy, which is a pretty vital point to miss, as well as lack of talking about marxist literacy, which is also pretty vital. These are not political.

[@supershadey09]

Around 27:00 MauLer: "I don't know how he [Jack] is going to feel [about coming onto the podcast] after we cover this...." Little did MauLer know that "after" was far too generous. Dude couldn't even wait til he came onto the podcast and decided he'd act an ass on Twitter.

[@zaephou2843]

Which really ended up being his detriment, surely he must have realised that EFAP _might_ just cover his tweets as he is writing them because, you know, they are livestreaming?

[@virusINJUSTICE]

"Mauler spends 4 hours talking about the summary" So taxxon didnt hear about why a scene doesnt work and how it could be improved?

[@Beuwen_The_Dragon]

*Fluffy Dragon notices he forgets to draw bridge of Jay Jay's glasses... O.-.o !!! Dragon Seppuku!... Dies* Also, the 'unibrow" is actually the top of your head Jay. I tried keeping your hair style the same, but is smaller because Binks bonse. ^.-.^ Also, Gungan/human hybrids... I am never drawing that shit again.. O.-.o So hard to make a Gungan look like the human original..

[@DreadnoughtFiend]

Great work dude. That picture was great

[@lordinquisitordunn336]

At least it’s not nooked cinema Roberto

[@IMMARTELMIKE]

Where is this man's likes! Get this man his LIKES!