Elden Ring Bosses: An Unbalanced Disappointment

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Before ranking the best and worst Elden Ring bosses, let's discuss the Elden Ring boss quality as a whole. While the best Elden Ring bosses tread close to greatness, the mediocre and worst of Elden Rings bosses feel more prominent than ever before. In this video, I'd like to discuss why with you. Stay tuned for my own quality rankings very soon, leading into community rankings for the Elden Ring Boss difficulty and quality.
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Music:
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Malenia Goddess of Rot - Elden Ring
Nameless King - Dark Souls 3
Alleycat - Persona 5
Days of Sisters - Persona 5
Copied City (Sequential Mix)v2 - Nier Automata
2b Alien Manifestation Instrumental - Nier Automata
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[@theDeModcracy]

I'm sure this will be a divisive video, but I wanted to be honest in how I felt about that game. Hopefully you're willing to hear my take even if you don't agree with it. If anyone feels I was overly harsh, you'll see in my Top 10 Best Elden Ring Bosses that there's still plenty I love at the top, even if I think the average is below their past standards.

[@gladiator_gamerbr6061]

If anything, i still see the normal enemies in certain areas to be way worse in terms of balancing than the bosses themselves, like the haligtree knights. Your videos are always awesome

[@donalking3867]

I agree with you I love this game it's not my favourite from software game and it was that somewhat repetitive nature of bosses and certain dungeons that made it that way where as past from soft games everything felt new and fresh

[@jamesclark2490]

I disagree with your opinion therefore I’m going to take it really personally and hate you forever. (Just kidding for anyone who needs to know)

[@AJ_Ol]

I agree outside of boss reusing, I don’t mind that. But for the most part you’re telling the truth here, don’t let the blind fanboys get to you.

[@skyluke6490]

@@AJ_Ol Sekiro and Bloodborne always in my heart

[@Nyarlarthotep9]

How do you not talk about the most reused boss enemy in the entire game. The one you literally fight over 100 times, the godrick soldier at the end of the tutorial. Just endless recycling of this boss.

[@juancorzo5081]

true :(

[@kindlingking]

Wdym? Godrick Soldier is the best. Such a nuanced and intrinsically designed enemy with incredible variety of possible approaches from player's side. It's a masterpiece of boss/enemy design, the culmination of the decade old souls series. In fact, they should've made Godrick Soldier the final boss of the game, that appears when you kill Radagon. Seems more fitting imo.

[@gabrielduenes5515]

Fr, took me a little over a week to beat him, I felt so accomplished so you could image how surprised I was when I found 8 of them scattered in the forest. Instantly uninstalled maybe one of those guys should try and become elden lord instead

[@hihowrya370]

Tree Spirit: Am I a joke to you ?

[@sessemamma4197]

Gotta be honest, the first time I saw Soldier of Godrick I thought it was a joke by the developers. Haha

[@KaijuRhino]

I generally don’t mind repeats, but I wish they wouldn’t do it for main remembrance bosses. Seeing Astel and Godrick again just feels like it takes away from their original fights.

[@GuidingOlive]

The only exception (imo) is Ancestor Spirit. The fight just doesn't feel designed in the same way. It feels like a test both times (like Margit and Margott) to see where you are. And it's such a wonderfully thematic fight that I don't get bored at the pretty simple mechanics of the fight.

[@boolboi2296]

not to mention Mohg in the sewers as well

[@CaliburXL99]

The cave Astel was actually harder IMO.

[@porda-potty]

Godrick didn’t even appear again??

[@LanPodder]

@@porda-potty he does inside some random evergaol

[@jstar3382]

I was fine with Margit and Morgott being reused. That time, it felt like a rematch rather than a reused boss. The spells were used differently, and the sheer difference in speed made the fight feel so much different

[@HMCarsSOA]

Agreed, it felt like the jump from Iudex Gundyr to Champion Gundyr, or Great Shinobi Owl to Father Owl. And most people loved those rematches. Morgott is a top tier boss fight.

[@areallybadgamer3042]

Margit coming back is very well done. And it is foreshadowed as well. Morgott does hit hard, but let's say like any of the other hard hitting soulsborne bosses such as Fume Knight, Amygdala, Midir, etcetera, they don't go batshit crazy on a 50 hit combo that only needs to connect 2 hits out of those 50 to kill you.... You could say the bosses I mentionned do have crazy combos that kill you almost instantly, but they are easy enough to tell and/or don't perfectly track your movements. The fume knight phase 1 has a lot of speedy hard hitting combos BUT they are very well telegraphed, and those that are very hard to read are those that punishes you for healing too soon or too late, or standing behind him for too long and his second phase has all of its moves extremely obvious, except for the same "don't heal and stop kissing my ass" punis. Amygdala's combo are extremely telegraphed, the most difficult thing about amygdala is learning how to position yourself, cause your dashes/roll won't save you consistently. And midir? His combos involve a complete stop of movement with a roar for about 5-6 seconds of telegraph. Same as amygdala, positionning is the challenge in this fight.

[@Noobie2k7]

No. They literally put an exact copy or Margit out on the Altus Plateau as a random enemy. Not even a boss. It's just Margit there chilling and fights you with the exact same moveset as the original boss.

[@_CrimsonBlade]

of course you’re fine with fromsoft lazy ass, the only company that can get away with making the same shit over and over again

[@Zarrx]

@@Noobie2k7 Margit is fun though so it was welcomed for me.

[@Starboiiiii]

In Elden Ring, you are playing Dark Souls and the bosses are playing Sekiro. This was the case with Sekiro as well but ONLY with 3 bosses, Chained Ogre, Guardian Ape and Demon of Hatred. Everyone else fights you as the game is designed to be. Elden Ring's bosses have the moveset, Stamina, and combos of Sekiro bosses, yet all you can do is roll around and wait for an opening.

[@TheKillaShow]

what was the problem with guardian ape? You could parry every attack of his.

[@shrakholog1013]

Lmao, every boss in Sekiro is fair, the chained ogre only has one attack which is the grab, which requires the player to dodge instead of parry. The Guardian Ape's attacks are all parryable. The Demon of Hatred requires you to dodge sometimes but that's about it. If all of those bosses requires you to dodge half the boss fight I would've agreed with your opinion.

[@haydeng3541]

@@shrakholog1013 and dodging IS an important mechanic that's required in Sekiro in addition to deflecting. Sure, deflecting is the primary part of combat, but the game also has attacks that need to be dodged, jumped, or mikiri countered. Dodging is still part of the core design, and is either required or at least viable at certain points throughout the game, so I don't understand how a boss that encourages dodging more is not "as the game is designed to be" when it literally WAS designed that way

[@shrakholog1013]

@@haydeng3541 Sekiro was clearly designed with parry being the main tool to defeat the bosses. If you read my comment again, you would understand that there's no problem with dodging certain bosses as it adds variety to the movesets required to be done by the player in order to beat those 3 bosses mentioned. However, for a game like Sekiro, with parry being arguably the "main" mechanic of the game, as I said, if it "requires" you to dodge the bosses half the fight. Now in Sekiro, you have both options, none of the two (dodging/parrying) mechanics is forced. so I don't really understand what you're disagreeing on.

[@advakart4208]

@@shrakholog1013 chained ogre has 3 different grab attacks

[@trugoo4862]

Elden Ring's difficulty gap can be summed up by this one time I summoned another player. He stood there with Rivers of Blood in one hand, and staff in the other hand, and looked at me with my greatsword and just said "I'm sorry bro."

[@frdyfzbrvids1896]

Oooofff... A challenge we put ourselves sometimes are overrun with meta. Sad, but it's about how we approach it that makes it fulfilling though.

[@jakeloewen533]

Why tf is that guy splitting between dex, arc, and int?

[@mastery4387]

@@jakeloewen533 I think it's more about the blood loss when it comes to rivers. it's not an optimal build to run all of that but a skilled player can manage lack of physical damage if you can hit blood loss over and over

[@dusathemaid]

The gap in this game feels less like you learn the boss and more like you just manage to out-damage them.

[@SuperHongTay]

how did he say that

[@Maraxus]

The one repeat I love is Margit and Morgott. It feels like Margit is learning with you in his first and second battle. Then in Morgott, you hear his desperate cries as he destroys his body to try to kill you. I love Morgott a lot.

[@williamhenderson2661]

Agreed, And his sword is beauty

[@dougdynamo9398]

I agree. It gives him so much more character by being a recurring antagonist. He has personal stake in stopping you rather than being a cool boss with a good backstory. I actually think it's an area FromSoftware needs to improve because while the character might have a unique story, most don't have weight behind stopping you; they merely exist as a roadblock rather than being active in their own stories. I honestly think that's what puts Morgott a cut above the rest. Same with Genichiro in Sekiro, and the Pursuer in DS2.

[@tinminator8905]

I don't think you can consider this a reuse at all. The moves are completely different. There are only two small attacks within very long chains that can be considered the same. They are just coincidentally the same person. Same goes for draconic and regular tree sentinel. They are both tree sentinels and look similar. There are no same attacks of the two bosses though.

[@clams377]

Repeats are not a bad thing if they change a lot of stuff about the original encounter

[@XablazedX]

Agreed. Margit and Morgott was basically the exact same concept as Iudex Gundyr and then later Champion Gundyr fights from DS3.

[@jeanne4328]

The only time this game frustrated me was when astel was repeated in a random cave, what was the reason behind that, one of the coolest looking bosses in the game, who caps off a good questline, randomly repeated just so you can get a spell off of it?

[@GuidingOlive]

I agree, this, the last tibia mariner, and the fell twins fights are the only ones where it really seemed like From just ran out of time/budget and had to put something in.

[@tiga8600]

like yea why spoil one of the best looking bosses in the game

[@jeanne4328]

@@GuidingOlive its like tibia mariner sure I can get it's a reaccuring boss, but the fell twins felt so random, at least the soldier being dead was a cool touch

[@burn2915]

could be another one radahn was holding up

[@devildolphin2102]

There are multiple Astel thru out the Map. The Main Astel. The repeat boss A smaller one that camps above a Merchant And A smaller one that that throws rocks across a chasm. They are a outer god/Demon/ alien species that are invading the Lands Between.

[@pete8420]

Why they felt the need to give EVERY SECOND enemy an AOE shockwave attack is beyond me

[@eplatamx2017]

There's some really shameless ones, like the one from the death rite bird where it smacks its stick into the ground after a combo and stays still to trick you into attacking, but once you do you get hit by some fire that ONLY spread backwards, specifically there to prevent you from punishing the bird.

[@AmritZoad]

In the DLC trailer, you see Mesmer doing the same shit. 😂 idk what to say at this point for a 50€ DLC, bosses do feel cheap.

[@sudowtf]

@@AmritZoadTowards the endgame the boss design just declines. You have Placidusax, who is just a giant hitbox that occasionally decides to conjure some lightning that prohibits you from attacking and just teleports away way too often. Then we have Godfrey, God of stomping, that he spams over and over. And last but not least, the Radabeast boss fight. Don’t you just love it when you get spammed into oblivion by the first boss to then later having to run a marathon to even reach the second one? Honourable mentions go to: -Draconic tree sentinel -Godskin duo -Malenia And now you can pay €40 to get spam fucked by Mesmer the Rectum Impaler. No doubt that a lot of bosses in the DLC will rely heavily on delayed attacks, teleportation and area damage

[@AydenMartinez-iv3jt]

@AmritZoad Oh please, why are y’all so allergic to AoE attacks? Was it a problem when Gael, Midir, Friede, Orphan, Maria, and Ludwig also used AoE attacks? Boss hasn’t even came out yet and people are bitching about ONE highly telegraphed move he’s shown. Fromsoft can’t design bosses more complex than Asylum Demon without someone whining about artificial difficulty smh.

[@AydenMartinez-iv3jt]

@sudowtf Godskin Duo is a shit fight and Malenia’s waterfowl dance is frustrating at close range, I won’t defend those. But seriously? Godfrey and Draconic Tree Sentinel? You can easily jump over their stomp AoE attacks (which is a guaranteed opening for attack as long as you aren’t using a colossal weapon). Placidusax’s teleportation is easy to deal with once you recognize the sound cues for his lightning. Radagon can potentially teleport on you after his combo is finished so don’t try heavy R2’s or jump attacks unless it’s after a golden AoE.

[@BSJINTHEHOUSE420]

Boss: *does a 10 hit combo* Player: When will I get an attack window? Boss: That’s the neat part, you don’t.

[@mithex8414]

Hopefully this is the last time they add a summon system to pander to the crybaby newbies

[@TrueYankeeFan]

@@mithex8414 Hopefully more elitist fanboys will accept that people can play through the game the way they want and it's not anyone else's place to stop them

[@MrAnoymousBoss123]

@@mithex8414 you are literally crying over optional summons grow up man

[@hughjerekson1428]

@@mithex8414 I bet you used summons

[@HellecticMojo]

After the 10 hits... obviously.

[@LarryNoir]

I really think crucible knights could have been more interesting if each one used a different weapon. Such a huge variety of weapon types could make each one feel unique. Sword and shield, Spear, Hammer, Halberd, Axe, Dagger, Fists…

[@kadenmaguglin392]

Definitely agree kind of like an upgraded version of black knights

[@jmm394]

One of them had a mace when the snail summoned it and I'm pretty sure the gank version had one with a halberd

[@franciscoochoa8317]

@@jmm394 that's just a great spear in both encounters, there's only 2 variations of crucible weapons

[@rebelblade7159]

And facing them in radically different arenas to give different scenarios on top.

[@huuminbloodborn7570]

Not only that but we'd get their weapons / all of their spells, we don't get the hand-blade attack which is totally lame.

[@tadnomas]

I really hated when I killed a boss and then later I have to fight his magical version, then his scarlet rot version, and then two of them.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

Who ever made crucible knight, special place in hell for them.

[@BogBilberryBagginsAGD]

@@aaronlaughter6471 there are no joke 16 of them

[@Ale-dd3ek]

@@aaronlaughter6471 crucible knight isn't that Bad Crucible duo Is insane

[@aaronlaughter6471]

@@BogBilberryBagginsAGD I know, I 100 percented the game, all Achievements, all weapons, all armor, all bosses, and I fell safe to say ER, not a 10/10 game

[@dylanmiller1140]

Watching the DS3 footage even with Gael and Friede, which are incredibly hard bosses, the combat just looks so much more Intuitive and smooth

[@noahsains6227]

Man go play it, i cant go back to elden ring simce every enemy takes 8 years to hit you

[@davidjackson9680]

It isn’t any smoother it’s just like elden ring except Gael is smaller then 90% of elden ring bosses

[@davidjackson9680]

@@noahsains6227eh Gael is ridiculous boss hard by Even elden ring standards but really the difference is he’s smaller then 90% of elden ring bosses I love elden ring but it could’ve scaled down some of the bosses to make some fights faster

[@davidjackson9680]

And then there’s bosses like maliketh I don’t think hating on malenia is good criticism because she’s a boss hidden behind 2 secret areas and it’s kinda the point for her to be bullshit. But maliketh fuck that what trash boss design for something that looks so cool his attack are way too fast and erratic

[@weebto]

@@davidjackson9680 other than the fact that "optional bosses are allowed to be worse designed" is an inherently flawed argument (cause like, the entire game is technically optional in the grand scheme of your life, and counter-argument, every boss is a piece of content that someone actively worked on, and this especially holds true for memorable "omega weapon" bosses such as nameless king, Midir, Gael, Owl 2.0 or demon of hatred), I heavily disagree with your complaints about Maliketh. His moveset is incredibly intuitive to read and fun to deal with. His speed and movements are very organic, the parryable attacks add a nice extra layer of depth, and it's overall the closest thing in elden ring to bosses such as Artorias and Gael Now, is it a perfect boss? Not by any means, but in an unfortunately artificial way imo. He deals way too much damage and he goes down way too fast, to the point where learning how to deal with his moveset becomes a tedious trial and error chore, and he gets absolutely obliterated once you master him, with no real room to have fun trading attacks. It's do or die, and it's really sad imho, because his moveset is lowkey the most engaging one in the entire game. Had the devs balanced this boss differently, he'd be in the run for my favorite boss across all fromsoftware games, but as it stands, it's just too broken from a parametrical perspective. Furthermore, the beast clergyman is way too spammy and annoying no matter what

[@iainkilcar7463]

My problem is that, more than any other from software game, i find myself more often than not thinking the boss is bullshit after beating a boss rather than feeling accomplished for beating a boss.

[@chonkycat841]

This also applies to some areas. Almost every single time I reached a new area in Dark Souls 3 I would get pissed off and ragequit because of bullshit enemy design, but unlike in Elden Ring, most of the bosses in Dark souls 3 are actually good, so when I killed the areas' boss I would get reminded why I love that game so much and continue playing.

[@superceilingfan9741]

For me, yeah. I beat a lot of bosses that made me just sigh and mentally take them off the checklist. Only reason I ever wanted to beat them in the end was because I knew I wouldn't let myself live it down if I gave up on 'em.

[@TheWildSlayer]

I had that, but then I realized I just beat a boss which I felt had bullshit design, because I overcame it, so I felt very powerful afterwards.

[@LASAGNA_LARRY]

Yup, this right here ladies and gentleman.

[@estebanfumero3728]

My feelings with Malenia, Radagon/Elden Beast and Maliketh exactly. I beat them, but I'm not entirely sure if it's something I could manage to pull off again, and unlike Isshin in Sekiro, whom I always feel like I won't be able to beat because he's super difficult but fair, it's entirely because I don't know if I'll be able to survive long enough to even get a hit in the first place before I'm hit by a Waterfowl Dance or one of Radagon's unreactable attacks.

[@SirGrimLockSmithVIII]

I understand the reuse of certain bosses. Going from Margit to Morgott definitely felt like an intential design choice that was properly developed and fleshed out, not a choice that was forced by time and budget constraints.

[@spleeneater9481]

Yeah, with Margit's threat at the end of his fight, and the Night's Calvary scattered throughout, Morgott was a god tier nemesis. Wish he was a little tankier tbh.

[@lwyerup]

morgott and mohg are two that i definitely give them a pass on, since they “evolve” in their second fights. but encountering astel again in some random ass cave in the middle of a snowfield actually made me want to uninstall the game

[@avish878]

And how do you know that lol ?

[@chi7818]

It’s lore. Morgott pretended to be Margit to kill tarnished on the road to Lyndell. It was his secret identity

[@avish878]

@@chi7818 maybe fromsoftware got lazy and adjusted the lore as an excuse not to design a completely unique boss.

[@jonathanpassmore9185]

Funnily enough, I actually think the aggression from a lot of these bosses favors the gameplay style of Sekiro and not Dark Souls. Being able to posture break bosses with precise deflections works in the swordplay style of Sekiro's combat. Melania's waterfowl dance would actually be a fun challenge with the multiple deflection technique that is required for bosses like Genichiro. I had a thought as well with Melania that I think would make her fight really interesting (in Sekiro's gameplay) where if instead of siphoning health from each successive hit she landed, instead gained back posture for each hit she landed where you didn't precisely deflect. It's possible that bosses like Maliketh and Margit might benefit from Sekiro's gameplay approach as well. One can only wish though.

[@jackreacher7495]

Maybe in the next dlc, we'll get an Ashes of War that allowed for deflecting with katanas Sekirio-style

[@halo6534]

They tried to combine all 3 game mechanics and combat systems into one game. And didn’t do good at any of them, nor did they balance it.

[@WastePlace]

@@halo6534 They did a decent job at mixing all the concepts together but the execution could’ve been better

[@halo6534]

@@WastePlace Perhaps they purposely/strategically, held back in some areas. So that the inevitable sequel seems even “better” with all the QOL improvements.

[@UmJammaLamma]

This was one of Joseph Anderson's main theories, that the bosses were designed like Sekiro bosses, but pitted against Dark Souls characters.

[@alexolvera27]

Revisiting this video after the DLC feels like someone time traveled and let me know a tragedy was about to happen. Every single critique in this video is cranked up to 12 in the DLC and it really soured my experience. Still has so many positives, I love the world, art design, lore and a lot of the combat still feels super good. But the boss design just feels pushed beyond its limits. I don’t think I’ve loved and disliked a game as much as I do with ER. It’s a shame, and it makes me nervous for the future of FromSoft games if they’re going to double down on this design philosophy. Beat the game, beat the dlc, kind of forcing myself to get the other endings for the platinum trophy, but it has become a slog and I’m dragging my feet.

[@josephbulkin9222]

Let this be a lesson to you. Stop asking for faster games.

[@alexolvera27]

@@josephbulkin9222 I don’t know if I ever really want for anything out of these games stylistically. Bloodborne is my favorite of the Soulsborne games, it taught me a much more fun way to play these games, I think the game speed of that feels good, but the aspects I love are the encouragement of aggression and the risk/reward balance. So I don’t know if it’s simply just the speed of ER and it’s DLC that is solely the issue, I think it’s part of it pared with it being pushed to an excessive amount and ER not really having the framework to support it, imo.

[@josephbulkin9222]

@@alexolvera27 I'm not too big a fan on aggresion. And yes, the setting of Bloodborne does put a damper on it, because I am a mediaval fantasy fan. I always found it fun to hang back, wait for an attack, block it, attack, and repeat. Slow and steady, rather than operating at a speed too fast for me to react to.

[@musa3000]

To a certain extent, I feel fromsoft’s aging combat system is also to be blamed here. The hyper-aggressive bosses that challenge your reflexes sound amazing bosses in something like bloodborne or sekiro but are ultimately unfairly balanced in the face of souls slow and steady combat style. Like Malenia feels like she would fit amazingly well in sekiro. I wouldn’t put this as bad boss design but more so fromsoft’s ambitions for boss designs have grew while the ageing combat system is unable to keep up with it.

[@Rafesco]

But the Tarnished feels pretty fast, add a mount and the possibility of ranged combat and you have different levels of difficulty. Rolls and attacks consume less stamina than previous games. The problem now are the timings in close quarters, if you want to fight close and personal you can have really good results if you have good reflexes and/or learn patterns quickly.

[@WeHaveExplosive]

Felt this very much, also the camera and lock-on system is inadequate to deal with the size and speed of many bosses to the point it's unacceptable in some cases. Why the player's combat capability doesn't draw upon the speed and counterplay available in games like Bloodborne and Sekiro is weird. It does just feel like the player is in Demon's Souls (2009) and bosses are from DMCV Bloody Palace floor 70.

[@Nemo.404]

I don't actually feel my character as slow as some say, and I use greatswords. If you want a fast-paced combat go Dex build and use bloodhound step :)

[@johndoe-lx3zh]

@ true, you will land a hit from colossal weapon at the same time the boss finishes 2 move combo. I've never managed to succesfully land coolest weapon art - carian grandeur - on any of the bosses tbh. I guess UGSes are dead. If you stick to fast one handed weapons playing game feels much better

[@PeterEhik]

@@Nemo.404 Isn't that a problem though? They give you all these options but only one meshes with the speed of the game. I mean you know how many players won't even know about bloodhound step? It's some item you get from a boss you can only fight at night in a place you may never go to since the game is so big. I for one never even found it until i watched a youtube video and saw some guy using it and I was like whoa what's that? Maybe they should've replaced the roll with bloodhound step or even better just bring back the deflect system from Sekiro. If you're a sorcerer you can still just use your staff to shoot the enemies from a distance but if you're a melee build you can actually get close to the boss and deflect attacks while exposing them to a deathblow. Malenia water dance is a sekiro move, if this were sekiro, you'd stay in there, deflect all those attacks and then do so much posture damage that you might be able to deathblow her after she does it. In this game if you learn how to dodge the attack, your only reward is you maybe get to hit her once before she flies in the air again, oh also you lose stamina dodging the attacks.

[@siddhantbanerjee3328]

I knew the moment I saw 3 crystalians in a cave as a boss that playing this game without summons wasn't going to be fun. I respect all of you who do it, I just don't have that kind of time and patience

[@Yobolight]

The summons definitely came out whenever I saw a gank mini-boss. Though I generally preferred not using them.

[@artorias6149]

Couldn't agree more.

[@genzo6514]

i did no summons and when i beat that boss for the first time I had to take a break from the game it was so bad

[@Yoshyguy21]

Eh, it depends. I barely used them on solo bosses, but I did use them for all gank fights.

[@fghfdgfdg6022]

Triple crystalians is pretty easily the worst fight in the game tho. I don’t think something like godskin duo is nearly as bad. It’s just somewhat disappointing.

[@Yirmatang]

As a huge fan of SoulsBorne (literally over a thousand hours in the franchise) am I deeply saddened by how much I agree with this video. While my time with the game is long from over, it definitely has been a very emotionally confusing experience.

[@chipbutty3645]

I only got into souls a few months ago so I had no expectations and i found the bosses to be the best in the series as well as my freinds and we all used strength and I didn’t use summons so I find it a bit confusing all the hate there getting tbh

[@Yirmatang]

@@chipbutty3645 I don't have anything against the summons, I've used them some myself but I've also personally tried to avoid them when I can. I was angry that Dark Souls had 3 versions of the Asylum Demon (with very minor changes in design) only to find Elden took this to a new extreme and was honestly a big letdown (After playing 3 which had only one duplicate boss). Now I go from hearing this game has like 80 bosses to over half of them being generic enemies and the other lot a bunch of reused bosses. The laziness with the bosses on top of the discrepancies with game balance have definitely taken their toll on my some. But like I said, it's still way too early to for my to form my real opinion on the game. That won't come for at least a year or more if there is additional content.

[@chipbutty3645]

@@Yirmatang tbf the base games on souls games are always a tenth of the dlc’s quality

[@Yirmatang]

@@chipbutty3645 I would only sort of agree with Old Hunters & DS3 and even then the DLC is maybe 1/3 of the gamea quality imo; the Dark Souls 2 DLC introduced some of that games worst content (and I actually kind of enjoy DS2 and don't hate it like everyone else) and Abyss is better than post Anor Londo and about the same quality as Pre Anor

[@aversiac-2]

@@chipbutty3645 I'll go ahead and assume "Ashes of Ariendel" does not count to this statement lmao

[@Rajoovi1]

This does kind of bring up a "chicken or egg" question. Did they design bosses like Maliketh and Malenia first, then realised that using any slow weapon makes fighting them hurt more than pulling teeth, so they went "well fuck I guess we should put in something to help them? Or did the spirit summons and easier multiplayer go in first, did they add the ridiculous bleed and mimic tear and then went "damn these bosses don't stand a goddamn chance against anyone who uses even a modest bleed build, we should add input reading and minimise boss vulnerability states as much as possible to make sure they don't one-shot the boss"? Like, I wanna know what led to this mess of an endgame?

[@scragglie]

i think its the latter. those mechanics definitely feel like they were tossed in at the end to encourage summoning and broken magic builds.

[@makol-wl2nf]

Killing Maliketh with colossal weapon is honestly stupidly easy once you understand the openings well.

[@cardmossdn8058]

​@@makol-wl2nf exactly lmao. These people complaining about Maliketh are hilarious. He has massive openings where you can safely do charged heavies with colossal weapons, not to mention his tiny health pool. These people just want something to complain about. '

[@cardmossdn8058]

@xionliing sh malenia and Maliketh are in two different leagues. Maliketh is extremely tough, but fair. He’s balanced by huge second phase windows and tiny hp. Malenia is straight up just an unfair boss. There’s a reason she’s optional

[@areallybadgamer3042]

to be honest elden ring combat is so god damn abysmal when you reach Caelid/Altus that at that point they mught as well remake the whole game. I don't think bosses that are as aggressive as Bloodborne's and do as much damage as DS1 on New Game + is fun. And in before anyone come out with the excuse, yes Amygdala was a bloodborne boss that could pretty much 2 shot any one at any level but the thing is your character moved fast and Amygdala for a BB boss was rather slow. Its damage required its speed to be nerfed. And OoK? He doesn't 2 shot anyone as far as I saw, he is just extremely aggressive, but most of the time I (and many others) could rake at least 3 and often 4 hits before dying. hell on my 2nd run i could take 5 hit from OoK and the boss was still insanely hard because the boss relied on complexity over raw strenght. and it DIDN'T mix both of them together to create : Malenia.

[@serkankoldere]

The main problem I had with the bosses in this game was the almost nonexistent attack openings. You would perfectly dodge a bosses' 6-7 combo only to be rewarded with 1 attack, if that. This was most evident in beast clergymen's first phase, where you could only get 1 hit off at a time and sometimes he would randomly throw rocks to punish you for hitting him once. No boss in ER felt even close to being as satisfying as fighting Slave Knight Gale from DS3. That fight flowed perfectly and nothing felt unfair. While ER is great, I was let down by a lot of the end game bosses.

[@uncagedzebra6941]

True this was my biggest problem with the game as well. In particular I hated the Maliketh fight, not because it was hard, but because he would jump out of the way after you just successfully dodged like a 5 hit combo. It made the fight more a battle of patience than one of skill and perseverance.

[@CrossXM]

Gael was easy tho

[@serkankoldere]

@@CrossXM Gael wasn't the most difficult boss but he was really fun. I can't say the same about Malenia unfortunately.

[@ryanfromcanada778]

@@CrossXM it's true but it also doesn't have to be brutally difficult to be enjoyable. It took me 4 tries completely blind and it was one of my favorite fights in DS3.

[@GamingRobioto]

@@CrossXM well done you are the best

[@Prakash-dn7vr]

Their old philosophy was much better tbh Let there be fair bosses for the main story The challenging ones are optional And the ball busters arrive in the dlc This gives everyone the choice to choose how much challenge they want Sticking super aggressive enemies in the literal open world but then giving you a summon who can solo them is just a complete mess

[@malek0093]

Agreed, but the thing is, in past games, while the optional bosses were much more challenging than the main bosses, they were still perfectly fair and feasible if you took the time to learn their moveset. The Nameless King, Midir, Demon of Hatred, these are all optional challenging bosses but even if you spend hours dying to them it never feels unfair, and eventually you realize you're doing better with each attempt until you finally beat them. For Elden Ring's optional challenging bosses, From Soft just decided to throw any notion of balance off the window, they just made them difficult for the sake of being difficult and it makes these bosses feel so cheap in comparison to those from previous games, with Malenia being the worst of them.

[@FoxUnitNell]

@@malek0093 as stated in this vid the bosses need some punishment frames for rewards for evading like in dark souls 2. I think that fixes a lot of the problems and maybe indeed of a health boost while co opin I think the bosses should keep their weapons but during solo plays they have lesser weapons. But that's a lot more effort than they wanted so they just made the bosses designed to fight multiple people with crowd control weapons which destroy solo players.

[@a.g.m8790]

There are rats in the openworld that do more damage than the Elden Lords. If that doesn’t tell you the game is insanely unbalanced Idk what will lol Btw I’m convinced the little starving dogs are the most powerful enemy in the entire game 🐕

[@BygoneT]

@@malek0093 Malenia is the most stilish and fun boss fight in from software history, it's a hill I'm willing to die on, with the over 700 deaths I had against her. I dare say there must be only a few thousand people who died to her more than I did.

[@BygoneT]

@@a.g.m8790 You ever tried to kill the bleed ravens outside Mohg's palace? They've got to be just about as hard as the cats from dark souls 1 and below Old King Doran

[@thehooman4705]

My brother beat Malenia with the dragon and golem colossal weapons while having no armour. It took him a bit over a week, but i was woken up by his screams of triumph at 2 am haven beaten Malenia.

[@ahmetkarakaya6103]

I did the same with a twinblade and a buckler lmao. It's insanely difficult but being able to hit those parries back to back feels nothing short of euphoric.

[@_Sage967_]

that proves nothing beyond his dedication to the bit. the fact that someone could probably do the same barehanded speaks nothing to the argument being made because it's a conversation about extreme outliers that no developer designs for. it is a momentous achievement and after... 5 games? they should just have an achievement line for a "no armor/basic weapon/unleveled" run but in this context it doesnt matter beyond being aware someone did it

[@_Sage967_]

wait no i just realized armor is for fashion and maybe not getting poisoned as easily so not wearing armor is kinda irrelevant beyond making you look more wretched

[@AlabasterTheGreat]

@@_Sage967_ you can’t say that Elden rings boss design sucks for solo play because jimmy down the street did it rune level 1 without getting hit.

[@dullededge1395]

@@_Sage967_ armor matters alot in elden ring with the right set up you can cut dmg by a little over 50% before buffs

[@cyber_punk_hazard_9778]

The game 'balance' takes a massive nose dive after Margotts second fight in the capitol. Finishing this game was a chore

[@nefarious8278]

exactly how i felt first playthrough

[@joebland123]

I felt the same. Curious to how you feel now about the dlc announcement? I'm personally not excited for it, might give it a miss

[@geert574]

fromsofts games u need to buy on pc with a nice cheat engine its basically how devs play

[@thedarkroom6416]

@@joebland123I’m not the commenter but I’d be pretty excited either way FromSoftware have a history of dlc that’s better than the base game boss wise and they will probably listen to feedback for this and on there next games

[@riosiscold9865]

@@joebland123not worth it, they are chargrilling $40 for a DLC, unacceptable

[@wangchangbackup]

I think it's moderately unfair to call out Mohg and Morgott for being "duplicate" bosses. You are literally fighting the same enemy a second time with an upgraded moveset, it's not like there's just another one out there copied and pasted. Morgott isn't a copy of Margit, he IS Margit - the Fell Omen is the persona he wears to interact with the world because no one can know that Morgott the Grace-Given, child of the gods, is actually an Omen.

[@raikkel9516]

Mohg is absolutely fair, the bosses are one to one in the first phase. Morgott there's an arguement, but the point is that it's not completely unique, even if you count morgott that still only makes like 10 completely unique bosses out of like 150+

[@trent1677]

Theres a copy of margit right outside lendyell

[@XenoMorphGaming79]

If this was another game you will be going full soy but I suppose elden ring gets a free pass because darling from soft can't do no bad

[@wangchangbackup]

@@trent1677 That's not a copy of Margit, it IS Margit. This is what I'm saying, fighting the SAME ENEMY multiple times is not the same as a boss being "copy pasted." You do not kill Margit when you beat him at Stormveil Castle, he literally says "Keep your head on a swivel because I am going to attack you again later."

[@Jbswe]

@@XenoMorphGaming79bruh fromsoft has soo many bosses in this game they can get a pass but god of war 2018 definitely doesn’t get a pass there’s like 10 enemy’s in the whole game and you fight the same troll like 10 times but that game is regarded as one of the “best games ever”lmao

[@krwalks1700]

Don’t forget that there’s actually ANOTHER mimic tear boss fight in a dungeon

[@BogBilberryBagginsAGD]

I honestly wish there was more of them. It's technically the same boss, but it puts into perspective how far you've come in your run because it changes with you. if they just gave it some additional mechanics, it'd be an actually good boss

[@funnyvalentine6670]

It's pretty odd that AI player sized fights were super easy because the AI was unbelievably dumb. Meanwhile Bloodborne's hunter fights are insanely difficult at times especially the Hunter at the end of Eileen's Questline and the one guy in the Hunter's Nightmare right before Micolash

[@Cheesecake17345]

@@funnyvalentine6670 Bloodborne's hunter fights are hard due to the pacing of the game, the lower count from dodging, and the general lack of windup for a majority of attacks. It's also worth noting that the hunters usually use weapons you don't have or don't know the movesets to, which dramatically increase difficulty. To that last point, note that every NPC fight is infinitely harder than any mimic fight purely due to the fact that you know the mimic's arsenal.

[@fabijanbaric9816]

I would just walk in naked and put armor on after he is summoned. Even i thought of it and im super casual player with little to none souls experiance.

[@weebto]

Bloodborne's hunter fights aren't hard because of weird movesets, they're hard because they're made artificially so. Like, for instance, the saw spear fucker in cathedral ward has almost infinite bullets so he can spam them to his heart's content, and the bloody crow of cainhurst deals absolutely horrendous damage for no good reason whatsoever. Same logic applies to Micolash's stupid call beyond attack

[@doomtrain7754]

"That signifigantly diminishes the euphoric feeling I described in the onset" could not be more true to how I felt. My first playthrough I was so excited to see everything to do, walking around like a kid in a candy store thinking "oh wow, that's a big gargoyle! Wow that big golden knight looks awesome! Oh god this cat statue boss is creepy! etc." but around 80 hours in it turned into "oh, another gargoyle... oh, another burial watchdog... oh, another super sif... oh, another tree spirit... etc. etc."

[@coinisinorbit]

That happens in every open world game. With enough hours everything starts feeling the same

[@theonewhoknocks2809]

Expecting new content 80 hours in is fucking insane

[@StudioMod]

@@theonewhoknocks2809 There's new content over 100 hours in, honestly.

[@Mayhzon]

So much good content was also cut. From dropped the ball and I'm sad because they were my favorite player in the field.

[@doomtrain7754]

@@theonewhoknocks2809 I took my time with the game, at 80 hours there was plenty of content that was new for me (Mohgwyn Palace, Haligtree, Leyndell Sewers, etc), I'm talking about the things you're supposed to just stumble upon, where the enemies and bosses are just copy-pasted with an occasional new gimmick like doing scarlet rot or having to be kited into a circle of light before being killed.

[@coliter]

The main problem with fromsoft is that they're forced to increase difficulty level to not disappoint their fan, and since they're not able to make their games more challenging by increasing the IA level, all they can do is put faster enemies with more combos, higher hp, higher stamina, higher damage output. Of course it comes to a limit where the games from challanging become frustrating. Add to this the usual problems with the camera (wich is tollerable with slow and small enemies, but become unsustainable with fast and big ones) and that's why their games feel more and more unfair. Sekiro was a good compromise, hard but fair, with none of the usual camera issues. The souls formula though, i believe has totally reached its limit at least since ds3

[@hydroshock1853]

I think the best way to counter how difficult the enemies and bosses get is to give the player more capabilities too. If the late game bosses seem mismatched, the player then needs either a higher scaling or more abilities to stand up against them. I have not played this game yet, but I have heard that its combat is mostly comparable to Dark Souls 3. So imo, why not have Bloodborne speed? The bosses seem to be more aggressive in Elden Ring than Bloodborne, yet the player moves faster in Bloodborne. And the difficulty was satisfactory enough, with at least half the bosses being challenging and the top 5 to be brutally hard but mostly fun/fair. Orphan of Kos pushes it, but the boss was great regardless. Wouldn't it make sense for Elden Ring to have a pace similar to Bloodborne if bosses are as aggressive as Sekiro enemies?

[@topical6574]

Miyazaki saw my dumb ass rolling perfectly to telegraphed attacks, he needed long wind ups and insta hits to throw me off. It still didn't work. I just took longer.

[@WalkTuahthePolls]

You're definitely right about the faster enemies and long combos, and that's because Demon's and Dark Souls were not designed for that. They fit much more into the category of dungeon crawlers than they do action games. What people miss is how much of those dungeon crawler elements have been lost. How many Elden Ring bosses had arenas that were important to the fight like Dark Souls did with Nito, Gwyndolyn, or the Capra Demon? The bosses didn't need long, complex combos because the design relied on other things.

[@MetalCaffeine56]

To me it seems like they gave players overpowered tools like ashes of war and spirit summons as a band aid fix for the increasing difficulty of the bosses.

[@OntiCastro7]

Nobody wants that bullshit. Just well designed bosses as the ones in previous games

[@MorklebBlack]

There's a different between hard and unfair. I went with a heavy STR build, wielding colossal swords, and holy crap do I feel like I get my teeth kicked in. I often spend the first encounter in a boss just circling and figuring out what the attacks are, and then trying to figure out which I can punish reliably. I never figured out Malenia. The number of times she would waterfowl dance me after I tried to punish her, and she started it while i was still recovering, was maddening. I feel like I either *have* to go speed / bleed or mage to have a chance at doing these solo.

[@justmonika2345]

She doesn't seem to be meant to be do-able with slow weapons, unfortunately.

[@shidelerdantheogre8487]

Use Malekith’s black blade It’s a colossal great sword and its weapon art staggers the hell out of her. That’s what I beat her with

[@tacituskilgore875]

I had a similar experience, I feel like there is a lot of lucky involved because I also got runs where she didn't do her BS once in the entire fight.

[@jasonlobo2350]

But the STR build demolish the game, jump attack its so broken

[@Unf0rget]

So, Ive done malenia with slow weapons as a non strength build. It is completely do-able. Its up to you to read what your openings are and not over extend. She has some moves with serious end lag and there are two ways to deal with waterfowl. Either run then dodge precisely or block and then dodge precisely. The one thing about malenia is that she is a boss where you must learn. In that process she went form feeling super unfair to predictable over a few hours and yeah, google helped a lot. The waterfowl is a very difficult move to learn and it took me a while but it was trial and error, not reactions or light rolls. The timings and angles are 100% reliable on all of her moves, even in phase 2 when she adds on extract strings to a couple of moves. In fact strength builds in the right hands seems better for her than the faith build I was using. Ive seen two streamers just jump attack stomp her in 1-2 hours of attempts. One was even using double colossal greatswords. Where strength dies is over extending with their attacks. If you want openings how you dodge can make them for you too, the fight has so many opportunities to exploit her movements that I firmly hold she is fair, just with a steep initial learning curve.

[@Corrupted]

I mostly play souls games for satisfying and beautiful encounters and really enjoyed a lot of the main bosses in ER, but Elden Ring made me feel really strange about what the "intended" way to beat a boss is, if I solo the boss without ashes and try to play it like the previous games, a lot of fights feel slow and frustrating on the players' side - combos are impossible to react to on sight, they read my inputs and feel like they punish a "stylish" playstyle a lot of the time But if I use ashes, the bosses get DESTROYED - I can literally spam weapon arts and simply stand behind the boss, it always feels cheap and isnt a rewarding experience at all. So I'm stuck, am I supposed to min-max my character like an arpg or mmo and just see how strong I can build my character or have fun dancing around the bosses in spectacle fights? I ended up going for a strong build with my armor being style only, and summoned my mimic for any reused or annoying boss... which was almost every single one for the last 50 hours lmao, I really wanted more encounters like Godfrey or Placidusax, dodging on sight feels amazing when you can just "feel the flow" - I enjoy strange attack patterns as a special move or highlight in a fight, but this time it felt a little overdone imo, I felt like the bosses wanted to fight me as a player instead of killing my character lmao

[@keziahmallick6756]

This is how i feel playing it right now. This game punishes you for wanting to play the game in a non cheesy bullshit way. I got fed up and did a full run of sekiro and the combat is so much better in that game to be honest

[@MetalxLicaxPP]

It didn't feel like that for me. Granted, I never used ashes or summons so I'm not sure how it feels using them, but finishing the game on level 10 was extremely easy, with the only "hard" boss being the three scarlet rot crystal guardians simply due to my level. Every other boss felt like a cakewalk and had extremely predictable patterns. Hell, Black Blade Boi has failed to hit me a single time in all 5 of my playthroughs, it's a joke of a game. They even needed bosses afterwards despite the game being a cakewalk. Odd.

[@silvercrow5108]

@@keziahmallick6756 It’s called being difficult. It’s supposed to be played like that, the summons and that type of stuff is there just in case you really get stuck and need some “help” It’s probably the friendliest souls game for multiple types of people

[@shmekelfreckles8157]

Ash summons are literally just an easy mode in the game, they are balanced to be just that. I also have not seen any boss that would be impossible to react to, so I’m not sure what are you talking about there.

[@Corrupted]

@@shmekelfreckles8157 clergy beastman's jump backwards with 2 fast dagger attacks has like 15 frames windup, watch joseph anderson's analysis for in depth cases

[@yep8673]

There is a sweet spot between easy bosses and hard bosses in Souls games that I like. Bosses like Twin princes, Soul of cinder, Ludwig, Lady Maria etc. fall into this sweet spot of difficulty. In Elden Ring most bosses are either too easy or too hard. That said there are some that fall into the sweet spot like- Godrick, Mohg, Rykard, Radagon (1st phase)

[@omegawario7479]

Idk about mohg but I thought morgott was the best boss in the game

[@managementok265]

Mogh is one of the worst fights in souls lmao

[@alandanger6285]

Mohg second phase is straight up ridiculous just like malekith. Mostly because of the insane damage output and health pool they have. The game pretty much forces you to spend a considerable amount of points in vigor so you don't die in 1 shot.

[@Starcrafter23]

@@managementok265 I liked it, other than his 2nd phase wings that can block your entire screen. The aoe managment you have to do during the fight is pretty fun and unique

[@Starcrafter23]

@@alandanger6285 I'm playing with 22 vigor and I've beaten everything up to Radagon right now. You can mitigate damage taken with talismans quite a bit, you can also use Wonderous Physick for the bubble that will save you from one shots. Of course there are still a bunch of one-shots in this game, half of Malenia's combos will one-shot you easily for example, which is lame, but you can get by without much vigor

[@mic01851165]

The reused bosses is so on point it basically explain why almost everyone has the exact same top 10 bosses in Elden Ring. Because there's only 10 unique bosses in Elden Ring..

[@anonymousperson8903]

Uh no. There's like 60 unique bosses, and like 20-25 of them are A tier, more than the total bosses of the entire Ds3 base game.

[@leo-13804]

​@@anonymousperson8903 Thats your opinion, not everyone will rank as A tier the same bosses as you

[@Mohgenstein]

I don’t think you know what unique means. Just because a boss is reused doesn’t make it not unique. Is Genichiro not unique because we fight him multiple times?

[@guesswhatimeating328]

@@Mohgenstein Genichiro is unique because, with each fight, he brings something entirely new to the table. In the first fight, he is the first boss of the game and serves as the introduction to Sekiro's boss fights. The second time you fight him, he introduces you to lightning, and the last time you fight him, he brings the black mortal blade. Elden Ring also does something similar with Margit/Morgott and Golden Shade Godfrey/Godfrey The first Elden Lord, and they change up the moveset and mechanics of the boss enough to the point that it's barely even the same boss. However, Elden Ring does suffer from having too many repeat bosses. Now, I don't really mind the minor repeat bosses, but it's still a valid complaint in my opinion. Due to the fact that the Elden Ring world is so huge and has so many areas and bosses, you can really feel that it's taken a toll on the major bosses' quality. At times, they don't even obey the game's core mechanics because they didn't have as much effort put into perfecting them compared to the past, more linear FromSoftware games.

[@187Wretched]

There’s 72 unique bosses. I think you mean there’s 10 that don’t get reused (more like 20 if you count Morgott/Margit and Mohg) The other souls games had similar top 10 lists as well before DLCs. Vanilla DS3 for example is Abyss Watchers, Pontiff, Dancer, Twin Princes, Nameless King, SoC, DSA, Champ Gundyr, Aldritch and Ocerios (I guess?) Only 9 other bosses remain and 1 of them is Ancient Wyvern

[@daruddock]

The inconsistency of counterattack openings is the main issue for me: learning attack patterns feels a little pointless if so many bosses and enemies can link into further attack chains at will, some of which put distance between themselves and the player. There's no moment-to-moment reward during a fight like this. Compare it to Owl Father and Sword Saint Isshin in Sekiro, perfect examples of rhythm and tempo in Fromsoft boss encounters where your reward for concentrating and learning the movesets is guaranteed openings: it's not fun just waiting around and thinking 'I could go for this attack, and if it hits that'll be nice chip damage, but if I wait because I'm worried this might be one of the times they cancel the pause then it could be another twenty seconds till I have another opportunity to maybe get one hit in. '

[@jackslap6618]

Well said

[@exumaan2512]

On the other hand, isn't it more compelling to fight an enemy that switches their attack patterns constantly? The battle feels more realistic as opposed to the feeling of fighting a robot that has the same punish windows over and over again.

[@samuelconnel2166]

That's a great feature, it means you always mean to be on your toes and not just trial and error until you memorize all attack sequences.

[@tragnark5602]

@@exumaan2512 In practice is great, but the player characters needs to have the same opportunity. Sekiro did a great job in the movement and combat part, because the bosses can cancel their attacks and do another combo. But the Wolf also could do it, you can cancel an attack to turn it to a deflect or mikiri. In Elden Ring you are stuck until the animation is finished (and also attack queing), so you have to rely in attack windows to do damage. The problem of that constantly switching is evident. The tools neccesary to counter this boss strategy is more diffuse compared to what we had in BB and Ds3.

[@daruddock]

@@exumaan2512 satisfying gameplay and realistic gameplay aren't necessarily equal. Just ask Red Dead Redemption 2's shopping catelogues.

[@majormaxor7592]

I'd say the game kinda punishes you for playing in a traditional way just like Sekiro once did. But while Sekiro taught you a new way to fight and use its mechanics, ER just said "GIT HELP".

[@Beyond_Immortal]

exactly.

[@amintron]

Well in Elden ring, playing in the "traditional way" IS how the core combat works because it's 90% dark souls 3. So the game punishes itself because the souls combat design has hit it's limit. and then summoning and hit trading with bosses is normalized to alleviate the difficulty. but that doesn't make the game fun.

[@IKormenti]

@@amintron It wouldn’t be so bad if the controls weren’t dogshit. Mapping sprinting and dodging both to circle makes dodging feel delayed af making it nearly impossible to play reactively against many of these bosses that feel like they’re straight from sekiro.

[@amintron]

@@IKormenti it feels delayed because it is delayed. Rolls happen on button release not when you press it. I can't believe how much they've regressed from their previous game. But with sekiro being a side project i guess the different teams never talked to each other lol.

[@TeChNoWC7]

@@amintron this explains so much, holy crap

[@StudioMod]

"It's either too easy, or too hard." Is my entire gaming experience with Elden Ring. Edit: FYI, I've beaten the game over 8 times. I do not need advice. I spend my time in pvp and I win 99% of the time without using anything meta. I'm an absolute, balls deep, souls-veteran since DS1. But when I say Elden Ring was too hard, I'm referring mostly to Godfrey, Malenia, Crucible Knights, Lord of Blood, Maliketh, Radagon, and The Godskin Duo. Yes, I can beat them, but it took me forever to get GOOD at beating them with ease, because they have approximately 0.1% openings and it's quite honestly boring doing the single poke, back off for 90 seconds then poke again bullshit. But while these bosses are outrageously aggressive to the point of them being unfun to fight, almost everything that *isn't* them is stupid easy with almost no challenge besides "SMACK EM GUD". There are only a handful of semi-challenging enemies through out the game, but by comparison, it's like night and day. The only normal enemies I truly found challenging were the crucible knights, invisy black knife assassins, and the grafted grabby dude. While I enjoyed things like learning to jump over Godfrey's shockwaves, which are super forgiving with jump windows, it was nearly impossible to master his attack combos and animations. And that's the same with most of the bosses I named. They all have these handful of attacks that are so quick to come out that they cannot be predicted or blocked effectively. Radagon and Godfrey and Maliketh's first Beast phase are the worst offenders of this. And Malenia having the most annoying and deadly AOEs in gaming history isn't something I'd consider positive. She is an absolutely garbage boss and I hate fighting her. She is harder than all of Sekiro if you don't do some cheesy bleed bs on her. She's a build breaker and I hate build breaker bosses. Oddly enough, my favorite enemies and bosses in the game were the crystal dudes (not the fking spear one tho). I love the concept they are nearly invulnerable until you break their poise, like Sekiro. Every fking enemy should be like that, no joke. Game would have been harder in the right way, and then bosses wouldn't feel overscaled to how easy everything is. I think personally the game may have been sorta like that at some point in development. But enough from me.

[@sopadefideos5636]

This

[@lanceareadbhar]

Only Malenia felt too hard to me, but there were so many too easy fights in my first blind run due to the open world and unintentionally leveling up more than the area expects you to be at. I did a second new game run going in the "proper" order and it was much better, but tedious to control for as so many areas seem designed for +5 smithing stones, but they give you so much XP doing them all. The last areas are hard, but mostly fair with some obvious ambush spots and assuming you have a level 100+ character with a level 20 weapon and at least 45 vigor. The game did feel too hard when I had 40 vigor based on the previous soft caps. It felt like they intentionally want you to trade blows with bosses as opposed to avoiding attacks and attacking during the brief downtime which I am okay with, but they don't incentivize it since it doesn't have the Bloodborne rally mechanic and a slow healing animation where some bosses input read to punish you healing forcing you to heal again.

[@schmockonaut4843]

@@lanceareadbhar but the game gives you tools for every boss, some have the shackle items and malenia is parriable, ofc the boss still feels hard but you have so many options you can use, why stick to one. yes i had problems with my dual greatclub build but once i slapped on BHS i could avoid any attack without problems and the roll attack made it possible to get damage output after teach attack the boss did, so slowly but surely i would take down their hp

[@RuthwikRao]

I was constantly getting close to killing Hourah Loux and dying, I decided just to have a mimic summon and ended up destroying him in 2 minutes tops. Hilarious thing is the WWE grab can pretty much one shot you if health isn't above 75%, but it does like no damage to the mimic lol.

[@KaijuRhino]

Yeah, for me the only fight that had the same balance as classic souls was Godrick

[@995Kilroywashere]

Playing through the late game I had the feeling that most of the bosses weren't designed to be fought alone becuase of their stupidly high damage output/hp pool Really glad I'm not the only one who felt like that

[@Antpoison]

Yeah I tried to fight every boss fairly but then I got to Maliketh and I needed to use a spirit summon, he was just to fast and this is my first souls game as well so I got my ass kicked until I used bleed/mimic

[@anonymousperson8903]

That's a skill issue my guy. They are balanced around 1v1 fighting, hell even then they are unbalanced in your favour. They are certainly NOT balanced around summoning.

[@nodlimax]

I basically summoned spirit ashes for every boss where it was possible and it made the whole thing pretty straight forward and relatively easy for the most part. Fighting the godskin noble + apostle duo alone wouldn't even cross my mind. Also why would I fight Commander Niall alone for example. Having three big guys that are difficult to stagger with quick and strong attack combos focus their attention on me alone would be a nightmare. The spirit summons took heat of my back so I could deal with the enemies one by one. And for bosses like Malenia a spirit summon was a good way to re-direct her powerful attacks somewhere else so I actually could use openings to attack her. I thought the fights were still challenging enough. But they were actually manageable. They were a hill to climb instead of a mountain with a wall in front of it to bash your head against. To me it was extremely annoying when I encountered outdoor bosses where suddenly I wasn't allowed to use spirit summons for some reason. It became a much more frustrating experience as I couldn't use the full power yet the enemies were still using their full skill sets.

[@Antpoison]

@@anonymousperson8903 tell that to Malenia and Maliketh

[@anonymousperson8903]

@@Antpoison Malenia is just really hard, but MALIKETH? Come on man. Even solo 1v1 he's under-tuned in your favor.

[@Cassapphic]

It feels like the variance in difficulty slides too far to either extreme, I either run a broken build and go about shredding bosses like they’re nothing, or I use a more plain and simple build, hoping for a tense, exciting duel, and instead get malenia screen vomiting scarlet rot and waterfowl every 5 seconds. Even the first major boss margit already punishes you for trying to take what seems like safe openings with his dagger attacks. That said I did really enjoy quite a lot of the bosses still with hoarah loux being my favorite, his hyper aggression works in that fight specifically because it leaves me constantly panicking and trying to focus and spot cracks in his assault as he charges an onslaught like it’s a fighting game.

[@sebastiantafoya3609]

What I learned after my first playthrough using 2 ultra swords was to play whatever way I want during the game until the fire giant, from that point on start using broken builds because that is clearly the better experience instead of suffering endlessly.

[@Cassapphic]

@@sebastiantafoya3609 Honestly that's fair, maliketh onwards is when the game really takes a big spike up in difficulty. Radagon would also not have been something I have any issues if they gave you a checlpoint for elden beast so you dont have to fight radagon constantly

[@Legoman775]

you gotta understand this is also Fromsofts, only open world game so far, and for it being their first one, its one of the, if not the best in the industry. Theres only a few others out there that can rival it. Witcher 3 and maybe Skyrim (because of mods)

[@duwangchew9902]

@@Cassapphic Radagon breaks my heart a bit because he alone was such a cool and fun boss for me to learn how to fight...and then the Elden Beast goes and takes over phase two and kinda ruined the climax for me.

[@Cassapphic]

@@Legoman775 oh I love this game and most of the bosses, there’s just some parts where I feel they went overboard

[@AkuNoHana]

Beat the game, love everything about it except for the bosses. Try to have a fair fight and you're constantly robbed of that opportunity. Win easily using cheap tricks, and gain an empty victory. What an absolute mess.

[@abrahamrangel2326]

true and i could beat all bosses alone without cheap tricks, did i feel a sense of acomplishment? no, i feel like i fucking wasted my time

[@Marco_mm]

Summed up my Malenia experience. I died for hours, and when I won was because she used that bullshit move only one time on the 1st phase and didn't use it once in the 2nd phase. I felt nothing when I won because she quite literally let me won by not using her broken move. Then on my second playthrough I beat her in 4 tries with bleed and mimic.

[@jelmo3682]

@@Marco_mm I just beat her again on my fifth play through and I wanted to tell you that the feeling of emptiness after beating her doesn’t change. The only reason I bother to fight her now is to get the somber dragon smithing stone for Millicent’s quest lmao

[@jelmo3682]

@@eldenringdump nah, just bad boss design

[@eldenringdump]

@@jelmo3682 nah you can dodge waterfowl easy and her clones soo s k I l l I s s u e

[@CATZ_ILOVE]

I approached elden ring as if it was bloodborne and I couldn’t quickstep, so I got the quickstep ashes of war quickly and used those for the whole game. Bosses like Melania belong in a bloodborne pace game.

[@fernandofaria2872]

By now im convinced she was designed for sekiro (Tomoe) and they had to cut her from that game for some reason.

[@nathanbarrett4402]

@@fernandofaria2872 She was probably for a Sekiro dlc before it was cancelled so they could get all hands on deck for ER.

[@shidelerdantheogre8487]

@@fernandofaria2872 I’m convinced you’re right. Especially because she’s obviously meant to be based on a Nordic Valkyrie yet she is for some absurd reason using a katana. Makes zero sense. The second I saw the katana and the move set that seemed blatantly intended for sekiro deflects, I knew.

[@r.w.9631]

I dont know. I know everyone is saying Melania should be a sekiro boss but honestly I think she should have been a bloodborne boss. She has a rally esc mechanic, alot of her attacks seem like they should be sidestepped and parried not deflected, and finally waterflow dance would be much more manageable in bloodborne. Honestly alot of bosses have vibes from other games. Falling star beast- Blazing bull Crucible knight- fume knight Godfrey- champion gundyr Melania - Lady Maria Rennala- deacons of the deep

[@proddragon]

in caelid near lennes rise you can get bloodhounds step. its much better than quickstep

[@tommikoistinen2321]

And the DLC continued this with the worst boss balance in the history of gaming. From Software has lost the magic. Oh well, back to Dark Souls, i still have many build ideas after all these years.

[@Stanzbey69]

Trash opinion. Cannot believe so many people agree with you. It’s absolutely disgusting how this fanbase has become a bunch of malding children

[@DerDoodler]

@@Stanzbey69 How ironic

[@anonymousperson8903]

The DLC main bosses are literally the best roster on average in Fromsoft history. IDK what you are on about.

[@maughtayo]

​@@anonymousperson8903Nah, Ringed Ciry still takes the cake there. Less bosess overall, but besides Halflight, they are all bangers.

[@Slaughter_Hill]

@@Stanzbey69no one agrees with him. Elden ring dlc is the highest selling dlc ever

[@Romb772]

Curious how no one criticises the several black knights, titanite demons and outrider knight minibosses in previous games. Weird to criticise Morgott too when he's damn near a brand new boss.

[@saltinecracker4081]

Makes me wonder if people would care as much if there were fewer bottom-of-the-screen health bars. I can think of like 10 enemies you could easily turn into “bosses” in DS3 alone

[@SpookySkeletonGang]

For black Knights and titanite demons, they don't get health bars or fog doors, and having 2 enemies in the game that are repeated now and then vs the majority of bosses being repeated a lot is very different.

[@GromitHAHA]

It genuinely baffles me, the previous souls games had many of these other “problems” and everyone acts like it’s an Elden Ring thing.

[@MastrPotato]

All mentioned above are part of their respective army. It is expected to be more of those.

[@soulsborne8292]

Or mohg and Godfrey. No one talks about the bloodborne chalice dungeons or the multiple demons in ds1. Sekiro is even worse than elden ring on minibosses reskins, because the second game at least create some sort of new challenge or new movesets and are EXTREMELY optional

[@im-_-dubz2707]

The chain attacks are crazy in this game im glad someone has the same idea about having no time to retaliate attacks

[@GlueEater-ix9gl]

jump attacks and guard counters are the intended way to respond to those i believe

[@ich307]

@@GlueEater-ix9gl I agree. I didnt have any problems with chain attacks I always knew effective ways to counter it. It also relys to my reflexes. I'm also really good at dodging "unpredictible" attacks (first time fighting boss) and I even play better in pressure. (My english is terrible sry for that)

[@GlueEater-ix9gl]

@@ich307 nah its fine, to me most of the complaints come from ppl who dont bother with the tools at their disposition and play ER like a dark souls game

[@J-manli]

@@GlueEater-ix9gl My issue with certain parts of ER is the glaring issue of "The paradox of customization," where the game allows players to build characters how they want, but make certain encounters favor specific builds over others. That freedom of choice can ironically punish players for playing the game how they want to play it.

[@GlueEater-ix9gl]

@@J-manli that IS indeed a fair point but i'd argue that even then, if you have a "suboptimal" build for a specific boss that dosent make it unbeatable, that and the amount of options available to you (items, ashes of war, spells, spirit summons,etc) you still have the means to adapt to almost any situation

[@TheFutureGadgetLab]

finally someone who dares to talk about the issues, the game is fun as fuck but every time someone says the game is perfect I'm like damn I get so tired of the same bosses and boring ass catacombs dungeons

[@RadioKnive]

Ight but like dont get mad let ppl think what they want im sure whatever game you think is perfect has a lot of issues that someone else could pick out

[@faultyaxiom]

@@RadioKnive My dude, that's not the problem. I love Silent Hill 2 and there is a plague of praise that surrounds the game. I love DS3 and a lot of people criticized it which feels refreshing. For close to 2 months there have been so few people talking about the game's issues because of the amount of praise that's receiving. Reviewers that never finished the game/never dealt with the end game content giving it a 10/10. It's insanity. I love the overall design of this game and the sheer amount of love that they put into it. Doesn't mean I want everyone to just say that this game is an absolute masterpiece when it's far from that. Boss design took a big hit and the fact that the game does not provide you with enough stats to survive certain attacks or enemies in the game is just ridiculous to me. It's flawed and I want just as much people talking about it as I want positive threads praising FromSoftware for delivering such a massive game

[@jackshapiro4668]

@@faultyaxiom I disagree with you, I think this game is a masterpiece Ben with its flaws. I don’t mind repeat bosses, but I can DEFINITELY agree with the catacombs. At first, they’re really cool, and have a lot of lore surrounding them. But after the 17th one, they’re just soooooooooo boring. I 100% understand and respect your opinion. I just am having so much fun, and loving this game so much to not call it a masterpiece.

[@faultyaxiom]

@@jackshapiro4668 My dude, I respect your opinion as well. You can think it's a masterpiece and I'll respect that. The game is extremely popular and reviewers shifted the discourse bu giving it straight 10/10 when objectively speaking this game has a lot of problems with balancing damage, colossal weapon damage vs pretty much any other build, boss/area damage scaling after Morgott and shit like that. It's just poorly tuned and seeing everyone praise this game feels frustrating. Some of the earlier threads of people complaining about these issues were met with idiots who've never even played a souls game telling them to "git gud". That's just unproductive and it's about time we start seeing some criticisms of the game. Mind you I played this game pre Radahn nerf, pre overall weapon damage tuning + weapon art. Thise happened on patches 1.03 and 1.04 while I played it in 100h pre 1.03. Playing with no ashes, no shields and no status effects like bleed or frost is way too hard to the point where the only satisfaction that I took was of beating certain bosses and not overcoming the challenge. I've played every single major title by From besides Demon's Souls and my playstyle for Dark Souls and BB was always the same: ultra greatsword and only that. Learn the moveset and dodge + no summons to help. In this game I can't do that because the devs seemed to have forgotten that people with different playstyles from what's supposed to be meta will be fucking frustrated when they deal small amounts of damage with a Greatsword +25 with 99 strength. If I liked katanas and bleed I probably would be having fun melting away everything but I don't and this is the first time From has ignored my side of the playerbase

[@_CrimsonBlade]

this game definitely isnt a masterpiece its darks souls 3.5

[@LeeEverett1]

If you've played one Souls game, you've already played them all. Also the fanbase cracks me up. Basically if you have the slightest critique they pull the "you're just bad get gud" card and talk about how these games are only made for "hard-core gamers" that can't remember the last time they touched grass.

[@saniakshay12]

Personally I loved Sekiro and Bloodborne. Like Demon's souls. but ER and both DS1 & 3 were really dull. The boss repetition hurts and I also think FromSoft put too much rubbish weapons and spells which leads to poor balancing. Also yeah except for Sekiro and Bloodborne which feel different. All the other games share the same DNA (literally the same enemy types, weapon move sets, glitches etc)

[@skippertheeyechild6621]

They really can't deal with criticism at all.

[@CielBlanche]

only demons and dark 1 are worth playing

[@JerryMcB3rry]

I am a massive fan of the soulsborne series, and while i disagree that they are an entirely "you play one youve played them all" type deal, i agree with the critique of the fanbase. This is especially prevalent now because of the Elden Ring DLC. Imo, the dlc is very poorly balanced in the favor of every enemy and boss and is just not only overly difficult, but insanely unfair. However everyone who is critiquing it saying that its too difficult is being met with the blanket statement response of "Git Gud Scrub." This kills any kind of constructive criticism or healthy discussion around this game and just lends itself to people getting angry at and insulting each other. I love these games, but the fanbase is pure cancer.

[@AtomicPineapple23]

The fan base is the worst part about it. I love all of these games but I also cannot ignore how unbalanced most of them can be at times

[@James-kv3ll]

The AI is sometimes too good for the game to be fun. Like immediately following a big attack combo with an evasive attack that also does a ridiculous amount of damage and staggers you no matter your armor amount which opens you up to the inevitable second combo. It’s just not fair. But more importantly, it’s not fun. And you can say “just wait for an actual opening” but that’s just not fun. When a fight is arbitrarily extended because of attack RNG, high boss hp, and unfair boss aggression that doesn’t feel good. (This doesn’t apply to all bosses btw)

[@haylonpowers1615]

Git gud

[@James-kv3ll]

@@haylonpowers1615 do you feel proud of yourself for saying that? Where you never loved?

[@XxxUnderestimatedxxX]

@@James-kv3ll git gud

[@James-kv3ll]

@@XxxUnderestimatedxxX Derivative

[@thegrapethief5514]

For Honor is better balanced than this game, change my mind

[@zthoop64]

One thing I never see mention about the bosses is that many, especially a large number of the "main" ones, have the ability to combo and attack they have into another, as in they are able to seamlessly transition from one attack immediately into any other attack in their arsenals with no time for attacking or healing from the players part. The best example of this is Malenia and Margit/Morgot, Malenia famously can use the same attack multiple times in a row seemingly as many times as she wants, this shows a form of arbitrary difficulty FromSoft has had in their desings for a while. Mostly limited to certain NPC fights, where the opponent the player faces has an infinite amount of a resource the player would normally have. Bloodborne's 'bloody crow of cainhurst' is the most damning example being an NPC fight with more health than the player, infinite bullets, stamina, and lead potions allowing him to use the hunters bone buff and repeating pistol as much as he wants. Typically this design doesnt effect large bosses, but in elden ring you see a different effect with the final boss, the elden beast. Many of the elden beasts attacks are undodgeable, not because of the attacks themselves but because the boss can combo any attack, and because most of the elden beasts attacks are projectiles that are either delayed or naturally slow they reach the player at around the same time making it all but impossible to dodge or tank, most people will notice this around the latter half of the fight when the boss starts to use elden stars and then go for sword beams or arrow rains, if not all 3.

[@maestro_nik]

Add to that the fact that it shows up in Margit. If you stand too close to him, you will be hit by his dagger combo without fail. It's too fast to roll completely away from, and will stagger you if you block the combo. Meaning that the counter play is literally never to stand next to him, which is difficult for melee users to do since that's the range of their weapon

[@maiz9153]

@@maestro_nik Which is frustrating to the player! I originally had a bleed build with bloodhound step and also used mimic, all the bosses did stand a chance against it, made it all the way to Melina then felt like i didn't really enjoy ER as much as the other games so i decided to start over with a parry build & a dagger and no summons. The game felt so unfair when fighting bosses cuz i could never get a chance to hit them without getting hit too even in their recovery frames barely made it to Godrick after hours of frustration

[@LonesomeKrow]

@@maestro_nik yeah I already hated Margit/Morgott a bit on my standard play through. But I recently did a RL1 for shits and giggles, and I really am starting to feel that “over aggression” in this second fight. I’m in Altus Plateau, fighting Margit in that field where he summons himself to ambush you. I can dodge and handle those knife swipes, but finally when I get a safe punish window in he jumps away or starts a new combos. So I started playing slower, maybe that will help. It does, but only a little. I can ONLY attack when he does that long overhead windup, that hammer jump, and his jump thrust. Attacking at ANY point between the end of a combo string results in him either jumping away or immediately retaliating and killing me. I know it’s a RL1 run is it doesn’t really bear much weight on this argument but basically I’m just trying to relate and say that I feel your pain and I hate how fast these bosses are.

[@yab3146]

@@maestro_nik stand behind him or to his side to prevent him from doing his knife followup. Many bosses use your position to determine what they do next, once you know that you should start having more sucecss

[@canadiangopnik7007]

I honestly love Elden Beast, I didn't have a problem dodging most of his attacks, he's so telegraphed, and not to mention the ATMOSPHERE!!! The music, the arena, the boss design, *chef's kiss*, If it wasn't for Radagon, I'd have loved the final fight, but Radagon is a bastard from both a lore and gameplay perspective and I hate him, I was doing a 40 vigor dex build, (note that I beat DS3 with my Vigor never going higher than 26, so much more health than usual for me) and I had to use Mimic Tear just so I didn't blow my fucking brains out, and usually, my mimic tear was nearly dead, and I was at best, 2 flasks down, usually more, for Elden Beast, there is nothing fun about Radagon and he should go to hell.

[@The_Sovereign_JDB]

I do agree that there are a lot of bosses that didn’t need to be reskinned so much. What I will say however is I do adore some of these as it shows how you’ve grown. Margit destroyed me so much over and over, so much so I went to explore Caelid first. When I got to Marggot however I destroyed him first try and it was so satisfying.

[@jake1316]

Bosses like margit being reskinned absolutely worked, I remember literally fuming when I got the margit/morgott twist spoiled for me, because it was such a damn cool twist. Sometimes it definitely does cheapen things though, like the misbegotten warrior in castle more being much less exiting on a second playthrough. Somewhat wish they had taken a few months and just added like 10 or so more open world boss varieties, it really would have gone miles in improving late game/repeat playthroughs.

[@The_Sovereign_JDB]

@@jake1316 definitely agree there. Plus there’s a variant in Lyndell, it’s suppose to be this holy capital yet there’s the same enemy I hear in basically the start of the game? He did kill me though, still need to beat him and get the item he’s guarding.

[@durchfaII]

The avatar boss had: 3 Normal ones, 2 Poison ones, 2 holly ones, and 1 who clones himself

[@inframatic]

This guy is just bad. There are over 77 unique bosses

[@alzzz1-14]

not sure if you have played the older games but there werent manditory hp checks on bosses that had few consistant openings. if you wanted to you could beat nameless king at level 60 ect. the ER bosses just seem like they have too many cheap tricks to make them difficult e.g. the fast recovery between attacks. its not that the game isnt the best thing released in 10 years but the fact that the previous games were much better balanced and had more fun bosses.

[@zined128]

dlc felt more like a chore than actually having fun to be honest. actually thats all of elden ring. i wish they made dark souls 4, those bosses and combat mechanics were way better than this spam fest

[@namtrinhhai1035]

Yeah, if they could discharge the open world and only keep legacy dungeons, re design bosses for solo player, ER could be perfect. The art and dungeon design are top notch but boss fight is so stupid

[@flashwithsymbols2779]

I really enjoyed Elden RIng and the DLC but it was never the same. I just went back and started playing Dark Souls 3 again and man, it just reminded me how much more interesting the NPC's were. How much more cautious and fearful the world was - the basic enemies in Elden Ring are laughable. I never felt I would die out in the world in that game outside of running into bosses. Elden Ring's difficulty is entirely in the bosses whereas in DS3 its in the exploration as well. And then I fight the bosses and it just reinforces that DS3 just had the very peak of the souls style of combat in bosses in Sekiro. Elden Ring was just inferior to them.

[@migicalmerwee9018]

I played with a colossal sword and greatshield. As much as I enjoyed the game as a whole, the endgame kinda soured my opinion of it. I felt like I was being punished for using options the game gave me. I know I could respec but that's how I played all the Souls games, and more importantly, I don't feel like it my fault that a build that worked for 90% of the game suddenly becomes hindrance.

[@esxivy1944]

And yes, you could "technically" use that build. But the amount of waiting for a good opening in order to deal damage with slow weapons is just too long

[@wuizabug2648]

the game feels like it just really wants you to use magic or katanas like a puss. katanas make the game easy, great swords were given a bad hand in the end game

[@yhorm685]

I had the Zweihander for most of the game, but I had to respec for Maliketh for duel Scimitars. On this next playthrough, I might try duel Zweihander for the sake of it tho tbh

[@TheOmegawop]

I beat the game with the greatsword on my first run. It wasn't that bad.

[@spoopy5477]

Ikr, I'm on Malenia with the colossal sword, and I'm getting kind of upset.

[@programmer437]

You have really helped me figure out what bugged me about Elden Ring’s difficulty. Why I kept feeling it was both too easy AND too hard. You hit the nail on the head.

[@largestarmsgreatestcharm8231]

Yeah I ran into the same issue. I am either getting my ass kicked by a boss with seemingly unlimited stamina that was obviously made to be fought alongside a mimic tear or a spirit summon, or I cave in and summon the mimic tear and we completely destroy the boss.

[@Beyond_Immortal]

I remember during my first playthrough I was clearing the game fairly easy. I'd probably die no more than 5 times to certain bosses or hit a brief wall but nothing too series. Then I faced the godskin duo and it was like my build and play style was worthless. I had to use the mimic tear to beat it. Endgame and most dual bosses are wild in this game and not in a good way

[@largestarmsgreatestcharm8231]

@@Beyond_Immortal Yeah I think the game slowly went downhill after Godrick in terms of boss design, but once you reach the crumbling azula it falls off HARD. The godskin duo, ANOTHER Tree Sentinal right before Maliketh, Maliketh himself, The Elden Beast, etc.... I wasn't a fan of any of these bosses.

[@Bennieboy918]

@@largestarmsgreatestcharm8231 godfrey was awesome

[@toshal22]

same for me, some things that felt hard were literally bothering me as I know eventually you do get better at fromsoft games but in elden I just wasn't in certain cases. and i don't even know the names of most boss encounters due to them just hitting me once before dying themselves.

[@fivefoottwelve2789]

What I’ve noticed is that instead of obvious attack openings, the player is expected to stagger or parry to get any real damage in. Not sure if it’s better or worse but without it you can get stuck rolling around forever.

[@refractivity3388]

Oh it’s worse, much worse. For me at least. Parrying is a pain in the ass, I spent 20 hours trying to learn it and it’s still a pain in the ass, doesn’t even work properly, half the time reposting doesn’t work.

[@Molotov_Milkshake]

That's not the case at all. Poise is fixed and works in Elden Ring, so you have that option (and I'm glad for it). You don't need to stagger to do real damage though, that's nonsense. This isn't Sekiro.

[@andyscoming4919]

@@refractivity3388 use a smaller shield. I’ve never really tried to learn parry in the souls games I’ve played through (every one but Demon’s Souls and DS 2 which I need to do the final maybe 15% of). I always went with a pure 2H strength, no shield, dodging only build in every game excluding Sekiro for obvious reasons. I bought Elden Ring finally about 3 ish weeks ago and for my first build I committed to learning Parrying. Was still pure strength however this time I had a shield with a GS or colossal sword. Got all the way to mid-game with this build without summons or spirits on the bosses, however, here and there I’d try out the spirit summons in areas I’ve already passed through before and wanted to clear out quicker. The tip to parrying in Elden Ring is look at the enemies hand rather, and when it begins to move forward is when you want to parry. I made the mistake of trying to parry RIGHT before their weapon was going to touch but there are “ramp-up” frames in Elden Ring before the actual parry-able frames are activated. Ended up re-specing mid-game after beating Rennala as the parrying I felt I was beginning to cheese but also bc it became a bit stagnant and wanted to try out faith and intelligence as I never have before.

[@Beardymanlol]

You gotta learn what you can and can't punish. Otherwise, summon a mimic and move on.

[@kolbywilliams7234]

@@refractivity3388 What? Parrying is easier in ER than almost any other souls game. There are even ashes of war for shields that increase your parry frames. Riposting almost always works unless they clip through the terrain. It has never been easier to parry.

[@xFrostyDZN]

Elden ring bosses are great to people that have never played a fromsoft game

[@chives8980]

I've played every game and I think Elden Ring and Sekiro have the best bosses.

[@xFrostyDZN]

@@chives8980 Radahn was an okay fight?... and he still has the bullshit lingering hitbox that hits you if you dodge the first blade, then he hits you with the other one at the end of your roll s. Pretty much any boss in elden ring would make ds3 worse. Almost every boss in elden ring makes the game worse. Over and over. I felt no satisfaction from beating the game. Just relief that it was over. I was ecstatic when i beat the rest of the souls games.

[@kabwab.4360]

It’s okay to be bad at elden ring, the game gives you a lot of resources to overcome it.

[@chives8980]

@@xFrostyDZN Not true at all, but ok I think you didn't understand the combat of Elden Ring.

[@Singformefriend]

You really understand how unbalanced the game is when you summon another player that shoots laser on the boss, killing it in seconds.

[@jamesgratz4771]

Sweaty nerds

[@SalvageET]

All souls games have meta builds that could practically one shot the bosses, that didn’t make them unbalanced at all. I don’t get what all the fuss is about.

[@SalvageET]

@@scandalouspanda7489 That is the case with pretty much every single game out there. DS1 had Drake Sword, pyromancies and Zweihander, DS2 had rapier, powerstancing and lightning infusion, DS3 had sellsword twinblades, Lothric knight sword and murky scythe. All games have weapons that are superior to others, that doesn’t make it unbalanced, that is just rewarding experimentation and exploration.

[@christianlangdon3766]

​@@SalvageETyour point is rather lost, dark souls one one shots are due to player knowledge event breaking and like shifting 20 humanity at the near start of the game. And it loses it's one shot potential real quick. The amount of prep work needed is huge. Dks2 one shots are due to the nature of the game due to the ability to grind huge levels through the rotten. Dark souls 3, has some strong weapons but no one shots. Elden ring I can one shot three bosses each in a row with stuff I thought was cool found in the same area. Placidusax I did without realizing it would take him to like a sliver where he did one attack and died. Yep only need to replay the whole game to get to that fight because Im a sucker for lightning. Heck maliketh died to 3 ancient dragon spears from the lightning spear. Wee a balanced game with no flaws. You act like this isn't a fundamentally different level of one shots. This isn't sequence breaking this isn't knowledge needing prep time. This one faith spell and one weapon that's just the stats enough to wear em and appropriate level gear.

[@maboilaurence8227]

​@@SalvageET Counterpoint: in the Souls series, you had to go out of your way to get OP, as is usual for most RPGs. In Elden ring, you literally do that without even trying, you have so many OP tools you'd have to go out of your way NOT to become OP.

[@RileyFreeman8]

Everything you said is exactly the reason why I finished this game and thought to myself "wow I really don't want to do all of that again." I never felt that way after the other games.

[@brojakmate9872]

You are not white

[@Walamonga1313]

Same. I beat Elden enough to 100% it on both PS and PC (I savescummed endings on PC). Now I don't feel like playing at all. The huge world gets tedious to redo and I don't like a bunch of bosses anyway. Plus the pvp, the reason I play Souls a ton, is dogshit. Like, even worse than usual. So until dlc I won't even touch it. That's never happened before, except maybe DkS2 where I stopped playing it hakfway thru

[@DeathLore]

@@Walamonga1313 Yeah DS2 is way more unbalanced than this game with the worst hitboxes I have ever seen in a game ever. It has interesting lore but the bosses are worse in that game than ER imo. (Although Burnt Ivory King, Alonne, and Darklurker are great.)

[@Molotov_Milkshake]

You don't HAVE to do do it all again though. The beauty of Elden Ring is that you can just miss the dungeons you don't need/want loot from for the most part. You can just stick to the main story dungeons if you just want the Souls experience. If I am playing a specific build, then I won't be going through dungeons that don't give me useful loot. I'll just skip ahead to the ones that do. In DS1-3 you had to literally play through large linear sections in order to get late-game loot for a build. Elden Ring has way more freedom.

[@Gigaover]

@@Walamonga1313 Elden Ring is dark souls 2.5. They're very similar when it comes to BS difficulty.

[@alexthebasilisk]

The only boss battle that I had serious gripes with is Mohg’s second phase. His tendency to fling flame over half the arena and then land in his own flame which does crazy damage where he can’t be damaged is extremely aggravating

[@DarkSideT_]

True

[@Yul_B_Awright]

there is a tear for the physick that turns damage (except physical) into heal for 10 seconds or so xD it is stupid in this fight, you walk in his flames and get healed

[@alexthebasilisk]

@@Yul_B_Awright dear goodness that sounds awesome I need to look that up

[@GoldenTeacherOG]

Wouldn’t be so bad but his arena is too narrow

[@Yul_B_Awright]

@@alexthebasilisk it is the Crimsonwhorl Bubbletear :D and I've read that it even lasts for 15 seconds now that I looked it up. You find it in mountaintops area.

[@charlytavernier6241]

It's so weird conceptually. The devs kept everything that kept Sekiro hard, while stripping you or nerfing nearly every ability that made Wolf a fragile god when played skillfully. And as compensation they gave us a billion cheeses. Like they don't want us to actually experience the super inspired move sets they came up with. I just don't get it. Also, it's a shame to think that if the DLC stays on that route, they're going alienate their super passionate fanbase.

[@anonymousperson8903]

Your character is absolutely fast enough and more than capable of dealing with everything the game throws at you with finesse. You just need to learn the bosses...

[@charlytavernier6241]

@@anonymousperson8903 After Sekiro and Bloodborne, the thrill of rolling around waiting for short opening is annoying as hell bro. Where's the thrill? Love the game tho.

[@anonymousperson8903]

@@charlytavernier6241 The openings are very wide in this game if you play aggressively.

[@antoinetran2081]

@@anonymousperson8903 you are an elden ring fan boy why you defend this mediocre game. Lot of videos trashing this game. Time to not get gud, but get smarter lmao

[@under-dog5390]

@@anonymousperson8903 No they are not, if you play agressively it just makes it more likely the boss will cancel it's recovery and respond to your input. ER is a passive game, you wait for them to do something > dodge alot > hope you get a recovery (or they'll just cancel it and wombo combo you.) Melania is a good example, can't tell you how many times i've had her dodge immediately out of a slam to just side swipe me nevermind going straight into waterfoul. If I did a slam I'd be stuck there for what feels like a year.

[@BetrayedTangerine]

Yeah I really think I'm with you on this. For Malenia I died a ton and couldnt even get her second phase below half health, but as soon as I respeced to focus on spamming Blood attacks I beat her instantly. There shouldn't be that big of a gap in difficulty between builds, especially with one of the secret bosses.

[@Benjobros]

A big gap in difficulty between build has been something fromsoft games have always had, ds1 had the black knight halberd, I barely died in my first playthrough because that dropped for me, ds3 has the sell sword curved swords, bloodborne had saw cleaver L1 spam with a bb pellet, of course all of these are nothing compared to mimic tear + rivers of blood, it’s not really unique to Elden Ring to have op builds

[@chi7818]

The gap difficulty between builds exist so that everyone can beat the game. If someone isn’t as skilled they might need to use an easier build or rune farm a bit but there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m not saying people who use easier builds are worse gamers, what I am saying is these people know it’s OP and choose to use it anyways so then complaining that it’s OP after making that choice is kind of hmmm weird I guess. I mean plenty of people have beaten the game on their first play through without bleed or sorcery but that’s just how they wanted to play. Could they switch to bleed, sure but they don’t want to. Would it be easier if they switched to bleed, sure but they don’t want to. In fact I’m using colossal swords in my second play through and I’m enjoying it greatly.

[@lloydchaddings]

If you used blood spam you didn’t beat the game

[@MrTerrorzone2012]

I get what you mean in the past I picked a build/weapon for the game and just use just that like a Greatsword or a mage build. Yet in ER I kept using a katana and a big axe because for some bosses it would be way easier to switch to another weapon. I know past games had that as well but it was never either super easy or pretty hard there was way more balance.

[@CaliburXL99]

@@Benjobros Remember the dark sword in DS3 b4 the nerf? That shit was busted asf, made my first playthrough of the game smooth.

[@MrMetalhorse]

If I had Wolf instead of "The Tarnished" Malenia would be the one getting wrecked. The entire difficulty of that fight comes from insane difference between her speed and your character's speed plus the clunky input reading in this game. It's not that her moveset is particularly difficult to read, it's that your character is ill equipped to dodge her. The healing FORCES you to dodge. You can't block because of the healing. They literally take away the only counter to her insane speed. Edit. By the way, the Sekiro combat will never used again because it wouldn't work for PvP and souls fans need their PvP... you know the amazing perfectly balanced PvP we know and love.

[@MrMetalhorse]

@@hollyc5417 I've beat every boss in soulsborne and Sekiro. I know how to play. I've never complained about a single boss. If you don't think that the Malenia fight is bullshit, you're either... A: Classic guy who cheeses bosses with summons. B: A prodigy at these games. C: A blind FromSoftware fanboy D: A virgin with nothing better to do than to fight s boss for hours.

[@Anchor-Supreme]

@@hollyc5417 you can point out bad design and still be good enough to beat said challenge.

[@fireboogaloo6871]

@@MrMetalhorse Build matters in terms of cheese as much as summons. It's a complete nightmare trying to beat mountaintops onward with just the brick hammer. The duo took me 3 and a half hours alone. Heavier/slower weapons are so weak in this game its not even funny.

[@mkv2718]

@@MrMetalhorse there are plenty of vids of people dodging waterfowl perfectly without quickstep or bloodhound step. it is one hundred percent doable. you are right in some degree, however, to bring up sekiro. as like sekiro, successfully dealing with her takes more than just rolling. you need to sprint, and if you get caught off guard at first, block. now, that being said, i do think they should have taken one more aspect from sekiro and added it here: the perfect block. they could have made it so perfect blocking would double the defense of any weapon or shield, making playing with a two handed weapon very similar to playing sekiro with no kuro’s charm. i think it would’ve fit in nicely to the gameplay here. honestly, i think they should still add this, but that’s not likely

[@Dowarune]

@@hollyc5417 I beat the game for the most part only missing a few late game bosses using only heavy weapons, greatswords, greathammers, colossal swords, colossal weapons, so on and have tried a variety of heavy builds killing every boss in 1-3 attempts at, the only boss I had any difficulty fighting was Malenia, after 3 straight hours of fighting I relented and looked up how to defeat her and only found builds for RoB or magic, so I tried again with great-stars with hosrfrost stomp, using that and mimic both of which at max level I could barely get her below half in her second phase before getting one shot through veterans armor and 70 vigor while dodging most of her attacks, so I left and grounded a ton of levels, I started at level 100 and grounded till level 200, yet even after 100 levels I couldn’t kill her, so I finally gave up my pride and swapped to a RoB build and managed to kill her first try using a weapon type that I have never used in any soulsborne game.

[@Nightmareunicorn7384]

I will say that with the amount of "broken" weapons and weapon arts do take away from fights like Malenia, but I will never forget when i defeated Malenia using dual colassal swords. 5 days of death, to finally triumph

[@shaunh.3765]

Respect 🙌

[@jamesweiner5288]

I can share that, I was using a colossal sword and eventually just got her parry timing down because of how tough it was. Can’t imagine what two colossal swords, king shit

[@osurpless]

@@jamesweiner5288 I learned to largely neutralize the first phase with that and a +25 bleed weapon, so that 3-4 hits would take a chunk and really hurry it along. There’s also a lot more safe parrying chances in the first phase, as the Waterfowl dance only comes at prescribed points, whereas she can seemingly do it anytime in 2. The parries in the 2nd also seem a lot risky, with even the largely safe “leap to the left” not always happening after the same attacks as in the first phase. To that end, I usually only try for the first 30% of her life and then just two hand to make the fight a little bit quicker. Took me multiple days as well to beat her solo, so not having to worry about parrying is also less stressful.

[@Battleguild]

I can now reliably deal with Malenia in 1st phase with my sorcery build by kiting and using Unseen Comet (she doesn't start dodging until after the hit unlike other ranged sorcery). But that doesn't really work with her insane 2nd phase. Still trying to work that one out. (I've tried using "recommended" summons, but they always tank hits instead of dodging or even attacking. Nearly always healing the boss to full.)

[@solidsnake9898]

Omg I literally defeated her with two greatswords last night!!

[@Rigel_6]

To anyone looking back at this and thinking "Yep, a that's a lot of bs" I reccomend you take a look at Elden Ring Reforged mod (if you don't care about multiplayer that is, mods), which is not another kotaku journalist ezy mod cheat, but actual rebalance of the entire game - more accurate enemy hitboxes, buffs to underperforming playstyles, nerfs to the obviously op shit, QoL changes for caster builds, better camera for large bosses (I know, incredible, seeing what the boss is actually doing makes the fight more fair, eh?) and arguably the best feature - Sekiro esque deflection system (though with much tighter timing, as to not make the game absurdly easy). It's funny how a lot of bosses that normally make you rage quit become an arguably fair and fun challenge when you have this tool at your disposal

[@Yorikoification]

Does it get rid of the input lag on dodging?

[@Rigel_6]

@@Yorikoification I belive it does tinker with action queuing (however you spell that porperly). At least it eliminates the situations where you mash dodge and then your character remembers the input in the worst possible moment

[@Yorikoification]

@@Rigel_6 I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the god awful delay when you release the dodge button and it still takes your dumbfuck of a character about 100 ms to react and dodge

[@lolgustxs]

@@Rigel_6 god that was so annoying

[@WinstonWolfe]

As a souls vet i agree with this. I don't mind difficulty i just want the fights to be fun. Skill should always be the primary factor in designing game combat and Sekiro is the peak example of this. The game forced the player to learn the mechanics and be better, even in previous souls games like demon's souls, dark souls, bloodborne, the balance felt right (the mechanics were right for the bosses agression, moveset and size). In Elden Ring the combat feels like a second thought and to incentivize the player to use summons is just a poor design choice.

[@Rammkommando]

to me some of the bosses dont even feel like they are supposed to even be in the game based on how they fight, some are faster than what your own character's movement could allow at times. Godrick was amazin , margit didnt care for felt they had him too early, morgott was decent not a bad fight, but ive seen other bosses and i thin some things move way to ofast than they should too many times have i had to eitehr summon or keep throwing myself at the boss until eventually i got lucky with attack patterns

[@WinstonWolfe]

@@Rammkommando yeah that's true, pace is definitely a problem with some bosses and enemies they feel out of place.

[@WinstonWolfe]

@Ger Vang some are great but it's a mixed bag.

[@Rammkommando]

@Ger Vang thats debatable, even as a souls fan I find some of the things go a tad too far to br considered fun, challenge doesnt always equal fun, game is great a few bosses I dont find fun wont ruin the game too much gor every boss I dont like theres one I did enjoy

[@TheMeanArena]

@@Rammkommando That's how I felt. It felt like I was playing Bloodborne with a lot of bosses yet stuck with Dark Souls slowness.

[@Quodequat]

While I didn't get the impression that the Elden Ring bosses were more difficult than the ones in previous games per se, there were certainly some fights with elements that felt unfair in a way. For example, dodging Malenia's anime attack close range is absolutely inconsistent and I have yet to figure out how to avoid the Elden Star attack from the final boss. I know this attack (other than the one from Malenia) doesn't do much damage which is why it wasn't really problematic, but it still bothers me that there is no consistent way to avoid it. I've beaten every boss in Dark Souls 3 on soul level 1 and I can't remember a boss that felt unfair in the same way.

[@jackhendry7]

I’m pretty sure running in a square can help avoid most of Elden stars

[@enjoyer2227]

Against Elden Stars, I have found that it's effective to run in a small circle while the golden orbs follow you. I also heard from someone in a KZbin comment section that Elden Stars can be attacked and "destroyed", but it didn't work when I tried it.

[@Quodequat]

I have read that too somewhere and while it certainly helped, I never managed to avoid all of the stars completely, which, while it not at all stopped me from beating the boss, I think is somewhat frustrating since I'm used to having a consistent way of dealing with (completely avoiding) every attack of a given enemy. (I'm not ruling out the possibility that there really is a consistent way to avoid it completely and I just didn't manage to pull it off yet) edit: I meant the running around in circles thing, I haven't tried attacking the stars yet.

[@zondaboy6493]

"Preventable and predictable" has disappeared. This is almost certainly due to fromsoft feeling like they need to "one-up" their previous games.

[@bers6014]

Regarding the Elden star, the Elden Beast really felt like it should have been fightable on horseback. It would make sense for the final boss to have torrent available and running from the star would actually be doable on horse. It’s weird that you can’t.

[@kamkoqu]

I pretty much agree with the entirety of how the bosses are designed. They are stupidly spammy, fast, and hard hitting, which isn't inherently bad but coupled with the player character being slow and varying in damage with sometimes unresponsive controls, it just becomes annoying. You can pretty much read a boss' moveset from 1 or 2 tries but there's so much stacked against you. Sometimes bosses change up their combos, spam AOE, or spam blitz attacks and if you get caught by even a single attack as you press dodge, then the input buffer fucks you over. In any one of the fights against 2 or more bosses, they aren't properly designed in a way where you can easily take one on while avoiding the other. They're either always attacking at the same time or standing next to each other, waiting to input read. Malenia would be my favourite boss encounter if her waterfowl attack were more consistent. I would be pretty much hitless until she decides to waterfowl while I walk up, walk away, dodge, attack, anything. If she were like most other bosses in Elden Ring that have a clear and long enough wind up into it, it'd be fine, but it's like a literal 1 and a half seconds between the anticipation and the execution of the attack. If Elden Ring's movement weren't so weirdly responsive and unresponsive, it'd be a bit more possible to dodge when she's right in front of you but it just isn't. It's especially annoying that if you're sprinting away, turn around, and press dodge, you're stuck in the turn around animation and it still buffers the dodge anyways. I think the game is really good but I'm flip-flopping between wanting to do 100% and NG+ because I just don't wanna subject myself to anymore of this sometimes. It's hard to even have an online discussion about the game's flaws or even just debate whether or not they're flaws because the community can be so dense and toxic. They will push aside any criticism of systems with "that's how it is" or git gud, and just give videos of people who probably spent thousands of tries doing hitless, lvl 1 runs as evidence of "the game is consistent and is balanced perfectly, just get good". They even straight up just gaslight you into thinking you're stupid and just bad at the game when you bring up bosses being inconsistent in their input reading, combo changes, aggressiveness, etc. There's been so many times when the bosses don't attack, don't dodge, animation cancel, or get staggered during an opening but then decide to the next time for the same opening.

[@xyZora]

This just happened to me when I brought this topic on a FB group. Unfortunately that community is not willing to look critically at the game. I do hope Fromsoft is able to refine these boss encounters for future games.

[@Beyond_Immortal]

I've been playing on ng+7< and the game is a nightmare when you reach endgame. I'm level 440 right now with 60 vigor and bosses either one shot with a single attack, combo you to death or knock you down then follow up with an AOE attack to finish you off. It's very telling when I can die to a single boss 30 times straight and not come close to defeating it then no hit the boss right after or I bring a boss down to under 20% HP 10 times in a row then don't come close to betting the boss after that. my experiences with endgame content is too inconsistent because you don't know how a boss is going to behave. I never felt this way from previous souls games.

[@kamkoqu]

@@Beyond_Immortal Damn that’s exactly what I was worried about for the NG+ scaling. I saw estimates that the scaling sorta plateaus after NG1. I haven’t played the game for a good week, near 2, and idk if I wanna come back to it bc I just don’t even remember wtf I was doing last.

[@TeChNoWC7]

But if a player can consistently do no hit runs, then it seems much more likely that other players are just having a hard time adjusting to the new kinks Elden brings than it being unbalanced. I’d wager in a few years, you’ll be just as good as it (provided you persevere) as you are any other From Soft title.

[@sanuzi6160]

@@Beyond_Immortal the thing is this time around they made the bosses adapt to your play style, so you can't win with just memorizing patterns. That's why sometimes you can get the boss down to 20% 5-10 times in a row, then not come even close. You basically have to change your strategy at that point. I can see how it can be frustrating. As an ex competitive fighting game player, it feels a lot like a game of adaptation, just like a fighting game when playing with real people. You can't do the same thing over and over and win. They adapt to you and you need to adapt to them, and vice versa. Not to say that's good or bad, but it's just what I've noticed So far I'm doing dual colassal swords, no summons, and just made it to the mountaintop of giants. Difficulty spike was like a slap in the face though. Seeing how far I can take it. My opinion might change later. It's my first time playing a souls game. I definitely see where you and the video creator are coming from though

[@bolttheman]

Coming back to this video after playing the DLC is great. The boss design critique is even more applicable to the DLC.

[@anonymousperson8903]

No it isn't lol. The DLC bosses are amazing.

[@gv2212]

Than why are you here?​@@anonymousperson8903

[@gregalamode]

@@anonymousperson8903 Every single critique in the video is 10x more apparent in the DLC. It's cool that you liked them but a lot of us aren't ecstatic about fighting 10 more dragons and a final boss that spams flashbang aoes.

[@batatapalha1241]

@@gregalamodeim good with the flash bang but omg, they should really stop with the fuckin dragons. Theres more 4/5 in the DLC. 3 of they are the same Boss with more HP and some minions

[@anonymousperson8903]

@@gregalamode I was talking about the main bosses. I agree the dragons weren't great although the ghostflame one was new and pretty cool.

[@erichodosh2933]

It seems to me that the players have been given more freedom than we know how to handle. Some people think the game is too easy, some say it's too hard and I'd say everyone is right.

[@arbitraryanecdotes4521]

It's as hard as you want to make it. That's the point they were going for with this game.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

The ability to walk away from challenges and find something else to do, and the imposition of making bosses that deliberately engage this, is the strongest contribution of this game to Souls-type games. When I go back and play the other game,s the number of times when there are two or even one direction I can going in at all will feel bad.

[@lazynotuseless8843]

@@arbitraryanecdotes4521 True. even with str weapon, by using Freezing Grease and flame grant me strength or whatever you want to use, can help significantly against a boss like malenia. I know it is going to be still hard but you can beat her even with str weapon. We just need to make best build possible for the weapon we want to use. thats why the game is exploration-heavy. it wants you to find the best build possible for your weapon.

[@r-cane6761]

@@arbitraryanecdotes4521 I agree, but the point is that it shouldn’t be like that. There’s no relatable level of feeling rewarded after conquering a boss if you can just mimic summon and spam alt. And all the bosses are so stupidly strong you practically have to play the game through broken builds. So we’re left with a game that has no variety in builds and a fractured fan base, nobody’s proud of beating malenia by stun locking her with a spirit summon and there’s always going to be someone who beats her by more difficult means, there’s no rewarding feeling to beating a boss when you know you could’ve beaten her first try by using rivers of blood.

[@magistrate3343]

@@r-cane6761 The whole point is you CHOOSE how to fight a boss. Sure, stun locking Malenia makes it easier and summons are encouraged on some bosses. Does that mean you have to use summons? Absolutely not.

[@r0bz0rly]

I agree with you. The approach to boss design severely missed the mark. I love my big strength builds and solo play, and I felt heavily punished for taking that approach. All the strategies for hard bosses seem to lean towards bleed and sorceries, my most hated playstyles It's a shame, I really wanted this to be the most amazing experience ever, and it was close. But boss fights never felt like a reward, but a chore.

[@ozone_strike3190]

I agree completely as someone who use two Giant Crushers, with 85 endurance I felt I never had enough stamina for certain bosses such as Malenia due to have much she dodges, it made the fights take a lot longer and I felt my options were fight at a disadvantage or change my build/playstyle. Hora Lou also exclusively spammed his AOE attacks one after the other my first of three playthroughs so I felt like I spent much more time dodging his AOEs than I did actually fighting with what little remaining stamina I had, similar to chasing down Elden Beast after it repeatedly ran away in what felt like fifteen seconds after I got close again.

[@Hirotoro4692]

Strength build specialise in stance breaking

[@RJMacReady1]

I never had an easier time with this game than with big boi colossal sword build. The amount of mitigation you can scrape together means you can walk through sooo much punishment with hyperarmor.

[@zululvivon2463]

Strength build is literally one of the strongest and easiest builds in the game.

[@higaiwokeru]

only reason I use bleed is because its effective so im stuck with using my fav weapon when I go through an area paired with a weapon I have to use against bosses to actually win

[@unclecheezboiga9001]

I think one of the cool things about Margott is that he starts off with a somewhat familiar moveset, and then completely changes it up halfway through. It's like he's a symbol for the mid-point of the game. Where the old / familiar and the unknown / new start to blend together. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but I think he does a really good job at setting up the second half of the game IMO

[@tyleroberg9986]

Fully agree

[@elespada9058]

If only they had given him a bit more HP and resistances... The fight is fantastic but a little too easy I think.

[@sdao411]

@@elespada9058 He's at an odd point in the game where if you come in after clearing Stormvale, Liurnia, and Caelid already, you're probably approaching level 90+ and can outstat him I didn't clear caelid before getting to him so I was waltzing in at level 70 and found it to be a very fun challenge.

[@BG-pl1zx]

@@elespada9058 He’s already one of the best in the series, but if he had just a bit more health, he might be like in my top 3

[@caramio437]

He is like an OMEN of things to come :-)

[@bplup6419]

The unlimited enemy stamina, 40 hit combos and one frame reaction attacks is something that has just gotten worse and worse since DS2. I miss the slower more tactical gameplay.

[@mayo5004]

You mean the easier gameplay?

[@bilalel-baher7859]

@zetta _ input reading is infuriating

[@haydeng3541]

@@mayo5004 harder doesn't equal better

[@ColonelKebabShop]

@@mayo5004 It's supposed to be a learning experience, it's only hard the first few times since you're constantly improving as a player, this is very difficult to do in elden ring

[@SoftBank47]

@@bilalel-baher7859 Fighting game player here. I know when I'm being input read, and it's always been bullshit.

[@reeven1721]

I think balancing around multiplayer or summons + shoehorning in several duo fights beyond one or two was a bad decision, because it breaks the "dance". Dark Souls bosses are enjoyable and MEMORABLE primarily from spending so much time learning the fight's choregraphy until you know when to block, roll or attack. In this way, the fights get really personal. Whereas when a boss is spazzing between two potential targets, or you are, the well oiled dance between player and boss completely falls apart into a disjointed mess of retargets. It feels like the skill component gets diminished. I'm ok if multiplayer = easy mode, but the default balance point should have stayed one vs. one.

[@user-xu1ru1nu3y]

spirit ashes ruined the balance

[@Neon_Henchman]

I don't mind having to fight two bosses at once, at least in the idea itself, because I like having to use twofold my usual brainpower or concentration for two different targets, because if I get the fight into my bag, that's an awesome feeling; not even 2 or 3 could take me, alone, on. The annoying things with MY examples is they're mostly from Daugthers of Ash, not really FromSoft boss fights in a sense, but I'll always treasure the hard time I may've had with Nito & Ciaran, because Ciaran would always pummel me with Toxic, and while I was dealing with her, I had to actively stay away from Nito so that I could concentrate on the Gravedaughter, but all while listening to his screeches to know when he does his Ground Sword attacks from afar, it was great mastering this plan I've made. Then there's Red Phantoms O&S, whom were super angry for sure, but I simply had to be attentive to their patterns; Ornstein would stand on his spot, throwing Lightning Spears, while Smough would try to crush me, and so I simply had to keep Ornstein in mind just to stay on the other side of a pillar, so that the only immediate danger I had was the SSBB Golden Hammer. BUT, I don't think all FromSoft Duals/Multis are that great, like I know it's optional and not really a boss, but god I hate Twin Sanctuary Guardians, they just do whatever they want and at the worst times, I swear. I think I mostly have a problem when the Dual Bosses are both huge packs of nerves, but for me, when I can master the pattern of one, then concentrate on the bigger troublemaker, I think it's great fun, and FromSoft does have a few multi-bosses that have fun patterns, but my ideas aren't exactly fitting of my idea of having to be aware of two threats; the Gank Squad in Sunken King, the two Melee guys never attack at the same time, they alternate on whom gets to attack me, but then I simply have to look out for one at a time, but nevertheless, I like grasping patterns like that.

[@DvDick]

Yeah, honestly I always feel ashamed when I feel like I need to use a spirit summon. I'm not a pro player by any means, but I soloed all the titles in the dark souls series, so I feel like I should be capable enough to clear every ER boss on my own. Yet many times I get overwhelmed by how aggressive bosses are, and I need to redo them tens of times until I feel like I got lucky enough with the AI letting me catch my breath.

[@Carlisho]

@@DvDick its just not worth it, ER sadly does not care about having a good and fair fight, so we should not either. I went back to Bloodborne after ER and its night and day, From Soft completely dropped the ball when they decided to balance around Spirit Summons.

[@hermionetwo2739]

However, not everyone wants to do that? They made a game largely for everyone to enjoy. You can make the bosses harder on yourself by not using summons, and things like that, or for new players, you use those

[@ZerkMonsterHunter]

I overall agree in that the amount encounters I set my controller down afterwards and said "wow" was lower than previous games. but that didn't mean it didn't happen at all! I specifically disagree with your point about repeats. The rivalry of Morgott and the player put so much story weight on seeing him again, much like genichiro in Sekiro. Seeing Godfrey's spectre early on and then the amazing twist that he was alive and ready to kick my ass was amazing! those encounters make the most of their repetition through clever story integration; and I can't in good faith at all associate them in even the same sentence as valiant gargoyle or leonine.

[@unrelentingawesomeness7501]

he just meant that they weren't an original fight, just the fight not the story

[@OGXenos]

Those repeats worked because the fight had MASSIVE additions to make them feel like a true rematch instead of "What? You AGAIN?" Morgott and Godfrey have numerous new mechanics in their first phase, and both feature entirely new second phases as well. However, seeing the 12th Ulcerated Tree Spirit or 15th Erdtree Watchdog got old back when it was still single digit encounters.

[@ZerkMonsterHunter]

@@OGXenos Absolutely agree. hence why I said I don't think you can equate Godfrey, Morgott, and even Mohg to the other repeats, which Demod does in the video.

[@ZerkMonsterHunter]

@@unrelentingawesomeness7501 I would say so, I take more issue with the insinuation that repeated = bad, while that is possibly true for something like Leonine, Morgott and True Godfrey are among many players top 5 bosses in the entire game (myself included). lumping them in as listed repeats alongside Leonine and gargoyles is imo, reductive and misses the nuance of why Morgott and Godfrey work as amazing "repeat" encounters where others fail.

[@vermillion6159]

@@OGXenos especially because some of the repeated bosses wouldn't actually be that bad if they weren't overused a hundred times. When I first saw footage of the Erdtree Watchdog back when the network test came out I thought that its design had a lot of personality, as well as the stiff and weighty movements which are only fitting for a living statue. We've had so many golem-like enemies throughout the series yet barely any of them captured _that_ aspect of their trope and moved like any other living creature would. Seeing him over and over again only made the initial encounter less impactful and their lesser versions in the endgame dungeon completely ruined this otherwise interesting enemy for me. It makes sense that for example multiple Night's Cavalries exist given that they are all knights belonging to the same group, but that's one rare exception where the reuse feels justified.

[@tomthefox8909]

This video sums up the issue with this game perfectly. Glad to hear someone put it into words so smoothly. Your point on balancing "it's either too easy or overly difficult in an unfun manner"; this is exactly my experience as a solo player.

[@BlackRabbitDigitalP]

The problem with this game is the fanbase... the moment you mention the above you get endlessly attacked with the "git gud" bs, completely ignoring the fact this game HAS serious balancing issues and pointed out.

[@trutyatces8699]

@@BlackRabbitDigitalP balancing issues? Yes. But you actively ignore how many things are imbalanced in *your* favor and ignore basic mechanics. When you do that, you essentially lose the right to complain.

[@BlackRabbitDigitalP]

@@trutyatces8699 I love your logic... so some fights are extremely easy to do while others are borderline impossible and frustrating.. the two cancel eachother's out? That's like saying since you enjoy a nice cold drink you can get punched in the balls.. cos you know the two cancel eachothers out.. seriously....wtf

[@AldoTegan]

@@BlackRabbitDigitalP people that complain the fanbase says get good at the game should really take that advice. It’s funny to me that people always attack the ds community when it’s that very community that helped me through Bloodborne my first souls game back when PS4 had communities. It’s also the very community that helped me on my first dark souls game. There’s a whole section dedicated to helping people that struggle. Now I can beat a boss like malenia by myself after I complained for hours her waterfall dance is broken, until I figured out how to dodge it made sense all of a sudden. So I say get good at the game or summon help. New players are not the only ones doing 60 runs back to a boss because they can’t beat it. Its expected and the reason me and thousands of others bought the game. If shit is broken we of course expects it to be fixed by the devs. It’s not like we just blindly say “this game is so good it has zero problems”

[@BlackRabbitDigitalP]

@@AldoTegan Yeah... I have started all the way back when you could only import Demon Soul from China and very few people in the west knew the game, so I have started early with the soul franchise, this is definitely not the first game I play, nor the hardest, and up to this day the only 2 I have never completed are DS2 and Elden Ring because of very similar issues mentioned in this video, lazy design solutions and inconsistent difficulty spikes. Telling someone "get good" is not advice, is essentially saying "I do not give a shit you have an issue with it, that's your problem" and that is not community, that is tribalism pure and simple (which let's be honest its is why the world is so fucked up right now, but I digress). It is toxic behaviour at its finest, same with not recognizing when a game has a problem and saying "It is not the game it is you" it really feels the equivalent of an abused wife defending her beating husband. There are tons of video chiming exactly what this video is saying, so it is definitely not a "minority" problem, this game has recieved the praises it did because right now the gaming market is so fucked, that people lose their shit at the first sign of something even resembling a real game.

[@block36079]

I knew they were gonna double down on this, so I was right in my decision not to buy the DLC when they announced it. This a failed attempt of them trying to have their cake and eat it too, and I won’t tolerate it.

[@weeger3930]

Lmfao, ‘have their cake and eat it too’, as if the dlc being too hard for you is some diabolical plot by fromsoft that you’re too smart to fall for 😹😹😹

[@bloodycrow10]

@@weeger3930 ​ @weeger3930 I'm playing the dlc and he is absolutely right, there are fights like Rellana in which you haven't finished rolling and you've already received another hit... infinite agro, infinite combos, infinite stamina, tanky, huge damage, high ranged attacks, instakills, input reading and 1 or 2 clear openings to hit one fucking time, my strategy was to trad damage sometimes trying to break her posture cause if you only hit her in the openings takes forever. And that is the reality of the dlc, if the base game was unfair and unrewarding, this is x2

[@el_androi1203]

I still enjoy the exploration aspect of the game, but you're right, the rate of bullshit bosses is cranked out to the max in the DLC. I have tried to play solo like I enjoyed most of the base game and every previous souls game, only to grow frustrated, beat the boss in the first of second attempt with a summon or other cheese strat, and feel no satisfaction at the end. There is just no reprieve in between their combos. Rare are the opportunities where if you're hit by a combo, you have enough time to get up and take a heal without getting hit by the beginning of the next combo. Some attacks also have a ridiculously narrow dodge window, such us when they chain two or more together you're supposed to dodge all at once, or when they have AOE effects following every swing. There's also way too many "massive explosion lol fuck u" attacks that simply demand you guess the exact moment they're gonna go off after a super long windup. And don't even get me started on the length and sheer amount of attacks, combos and patterns these bosses have, any of which can take around half your HP. The reality is that beating bosses using NPC or player phantoms has just never been as satisfactory as doing it solo for the majority of the playerbase. But now they've made the solo experience so demanding compared to the older games, whilst making summoning NPCs which are way stronger than almost any NPC phantom could ever do, that add no downsides in the form of extra HP, made it readily available for you to use without spending resources and the de facto "just summon" tool for when a boss feels too difficult. I don't care if people summon, I just think that adding that mechanic has conditioned From Soft to make the solo experience absolutely ball crushing and summoning takes away what I fell in love with their games for. When I beat a boss with a summon I just feel like I brute-forced my way through them, like I got revenge for the bullshit they subjected me to when I tried them solo. But I don't get that fleeting feeling of satisfaction that I love about the games, that I learned the boss and simply beat it by being better.

[@Stanzbey69]

@@bloodycrow10 get some blessings and stop complaining.

[@anonymousperson8903]

@@el_androi1203 So basically you are saying the bosses are too hard for you. That doesn't mean they are bullshit.

[@spoods5073]

I agree with you. The thing is, you should feel like you accomplished something when you beat the bosses. In Elden Ring, I was just glad the fights were over because many have just obsurd damage or moves. And feeling weak with strength weapons is what saddens me the most.

[@tde4438]

This (along with the runes thing) is exactly why I returned my copy after Margit. I spent gods knows how many hours trying to kill him, and when I did...the only emotion I felt was that it was finally over. I didn’t get excited that I won, I wasn’t happy I got new stuff, I felt *empty*. And if that was how I felt on one boss, I didn’t wanna feel that way for several hundred hours. Beating a boss should feel like an accomplishment, not the aftermath of a successful surgical procedure. Great game, just not for me.

[@Crossbar_Pain]

I powerstanced two Guts greatswords with 65 strength and was still feeling weak to some of these bosses😅

[@jinx5673]

@@tde4438 What level were you…? If you struggled THAT much against MRgit, you must’ve been under leveled

[@ashishhegde7319]

@@tde4438 lol. You are just bad at the game. And that's alright. You gave up though and that's ....well

[@crackmonsieur]

@@tde4438 For the best you refunded. I plowed through the game and completely came away with the exact feeling after beating it. It's not fun, it's just tedious.

[@cheezybrotherstudios]

love elden ring to death but I agree with everything said here. Too aggressive, too tanky, and too much of a gulf between "Use mimic tear and make everything a joke" or "perfect every frame of every attack of every boss". If there ever was an "easy mode", it shouldn't impact any stats, it would just have to make the attack a few frames slower or make the enemies marginally less aggressive. Or maybe NG+ the attacks and aggression speeds up and the health stays the same?

[@NisseDood]

I miss the times when bosses like Arthorias and Fume knight where considered ultra agressive.

[@obamaorb7426]

@@NisseDood Nowadays margit, the first boss, is just as agressive as artorias, arguably even more so

[@yab3146]

Too tanky? Really? If anything bosses need more health. Morgott,maliketh,fortissax and godfrey would absolutely benefit from more health.

[@cheezybrotherstudios]

@@yab3146 actually after beating the last few I agree. Elden beast was weak sauce and go stick hit the ground quick. Granted I had +25 great sword with 66 STR but the balance seems all over the place

[@Cattlefarmingworldrecords]

@@cheezybrotherstudios i’d be interested to hear your experience in ng+ because elden beast is kicking my ass i beat the whole first play through solo even malenia no summons and even with summons now i can’t kill elden beast like i’m doing 3k damage and it’s like i’m tickling it’s elden balls

[@GameFrog1990]

I always say that Elden Ring Bosses feel like they belong in Sekiro, glad to know that people seem to agree :)

[@lorenzomelis5399]

Bosses like Maliketh or Malenia feel like they belong in Sekiro, but without giving you the chance to deflect their relentless attacks like Wolf could do. But if you decide to use Spirit Ashes, it totally trivializes the battles.

[@saniakshay12]

@@lorenzomelis5399 malikeith belongs in Bloodborne. Malenia literally feels like they gave her some of the lady from the bad endings unused moves.

[@EmperorTyrael]

@@lorenzomelis5399 You can deflect Maliketh with Blasphemous Claw when his sword glows gold giving you two seconds opening. Malenia has low poise and is easy to interrupt. Summons do not trivialize battles, they are there to help you with aggro. It's a good thing because many Elden Ring bosses are design to punish you for relying on old Dark Souls tactics. But the doesn't mean even without summons you can't master defeating bosses. Have you ever heard of the legendary "let me solo her?" Malenia killed him over 200 times before his first win. Now she couldn't even touch him.

[@lorenzomelis5399]

@@EmperorTyrael Obviously it's not impossible, I did it myself, but it felt like I was very very lucky rather than I really earned it. I don't think I could beat Malenia again first try or second try. I think the best boss fight remains Morgott, because he has a wide array of moves, he gives you several chances to attack and his moves are very readable.

[@akumu9188]

I will always standby the idea that Malenia was intended to be Tomoe in the scrapped Sekiro DLC and they just reused her moveset for ER.

[@dylanmiller1140]

Godrick is by far the best boss in the game, he was so fun and actually feels like a grey boss balanced for one player

[@ZinxTheSlayer]

Exactly!

[@phiavir5594]

He's super forgettable.

[@davidjackson9680]

@@phiavir5594yeah I don’t know what he’s talking about if they fight like sekiro bosses then keep distance and dodge fast don’t spam roll because the game punishes you for it unlike DS3

[@bazplayzyt6207]

@@davidjackson9680 yeah why not just keep a distance and not attack the boss cuz we get punished otherwise

[@weebto]

I mostly agree though upon further examination, he suffers from a major flaw in one of his wind based-attacks: the hitbox activates before the animation even starts, making it effectively undodgeable. That makes him hella annoying on challenge runs. Such a shame cause he'd otherwise be an amazing boss, but that one flaw just manages to make me pissed everytime I fight against him

[@bgeniij]

I think Sekiro had some of the most balanced boss fights in any FromSoft game. When I died to a boss in Sekiro, it almost never felt "cheap". It felt like my own fault, and it was usually In immediately clear what I did wrong and what I needed to do differently. One of the best features of Sekiro is how deflecting works. In Dark Souls, you beat a boss by hitting it until it dies. You can dodge like a god in Dark Souls, but unless you get in some attacks of your own, you will never win. That's why attack windows are so important in Souls. Attacking is how you win, and defending is just a way to stay alive until you do. This is not the case in Sekiro. In Sekiro, your primary method of defense is deflecting rather than dodging. Since each deflected attack fills the enemy's posture bar, you are offensively rewarded for proper defense. This greatly diminishes the need for attack windows in Sekiro. In fact, extreme aggression can actually make enemies easier to deal with. Look at Long Arm Centipede, which would probably be an incredibly annoying fight in Souls due to the lack of attack windows, but is relatively simple in Sekiro. You don't need consistent attack windows to defeat enemies in Sekiro. But when you do get an attack window, you need to exploit it. Attacking is important to keep enemies from losing posture, whether by doing vitality damage or simply not giving them time to recover. Sekiro does a much better job at dealing with inconsistent attack windows than Elden Ring, not just because the player doesn’t need consistent, lengthy windows to make progress, but also because it has a method of letting players know when their attack window is over. When the enemy deflects your attack rather than simply blocking, it signifies the end of the attack window. Margit the Fell Omen sometimes interrupts his attack windows with a quick dagger swipe, which is incredibly annoying to avoid. The problem isn’t that the attack is to fast to dodge, but that you will be probably be stuck in an attack animation and will be unable to dodge. In Sekiro, the main “tell" always occurs at the end of one of your attacks, which means you are always able to react to a sudden interruption. You won’t be stuck in an animation when the enemy strikes unless you continue to attack. In Elden Ring, the interruption occurs independently, regardless of where you are in your attack, so you often are unable to react to them without sacrificing your offence. I was going to continue, but this is already way too long, so let’s just leave it there.

[@Gatchu137]

I don't think Sekiro is as consistent as you make it sound. Boss openings aren't over when they parry your attack, there are plenty of cases where just delaying your attack, or swinging as soon as their next animation starts, causes them to continue getting stunned. Conversely, your own parry window can vary drastically, due to the insane rate of decay on its active frames. More than any other, Sekiro was the game where I said "how tf did that hit me, I definitely parried that" the most. A lot of bosses even felt like they were completely incompatible with the game's combat (usually beast-like enemies like the apes or bulls). I agree that Sekiro has a very streamlined combat system, which can make for cool fights, but that's at the cost of removing nearly all build variety. Even the prosthetics, which are your one area of customization, typically have very clear-cut situations where they either completely destroy something, or might as well be useless. You can't really play the game and go "yeah, this will be my axe run", because the axe only serves very limited functions. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, it's just the trade-off they needed to make for the sake of Sekiro's unique style of combat. At its core, Elden Ring hits a very good balance between traditional Souls combat, and key features from Sekiro, like posture, stealth, jumping, etc. And rather than following the same system of waiting for an opening, like Dark Souls, it wants players to find openings during periods when bosses are charging up a big attack, or find blind spots where bosses will completely whiff an attack. Margit has very little openings after attacks because his openings are during the 3 years he takes to wind-up a big swing, and a lot of his moves will completely miss if you just sidestep them properly, instead of trying to dodge everything. Elden Ring's main problems have nothing to do with anything fundamental in the combat system. All the issues are due to horrible HP/damage scaling, as well as huge hitboxes meant to account for spirit summons.

[@haoyu53]

It's just a lot easier to balance bosses when there's only one build.

[@bgeniij]

@@Gatchu137 I honestly ask "how did that hit me" way more in Elden Ring than I did in Sekiro, although it is mainly because of massive hitboxes and so many attacks with AOE. I can't tell you how many times a boss will do a massive overhead slam that still hits me even though I am literally behind the boss. You are absolutely right about how Sekiro's combat comes at the expense of character customization. It's a lot easier to balance prosthetics when there are only like 10 of them, whereas Elden Ring has dozens of weapons, ashes of war, spells, summons, etc. I can't think of how it would be possible to make fights feel balanced when you have so many tools at your disposal. And honestly, the imbalance in Elden Ring can be pretty fun. Finding what works best can be just as satisfying as slowly learning enemy attack patterns and dodge timings. The open world really helps this, as if a boss feels impossible to beat, you have much more freedom to go find the tools needed to overcome it. I would agree that Margit's first phase has fair openings both before and after some of his attacks although his second phase really feels like it was balanced with spirit summons in mind. Other than baiting his hammer slam, it doesn't feel like he gives the players openings to deal significant damage unless you pull aggro with a summon. Which is ultimately how I beat him, by summoning wolves between phases to bait him while I used charged heavy attacks from behind to break his posture. It was honestly a lot of fun, and still not a cakewalk since he always managed to kill the wolves before I could finish him off. However, I do think that many (definitely not all) of the bosses in Elden Ring ARE poorly balanced when it comes to fighting straight up, evading attacks and exploiting punish windows. You mentioned sidestepping instead of dodging, which is actually my go-to tactic in Souls games (I am atrocious at dodge rolls), but it feels much less consistent in Elden Ring when so many attacks have ridiculous AOE, sudden tracking, or quick follow-ups. And I do think that Sekiro's combat gave the players better ways to respond these types of faster, more aggressive, less predictable bosses. I don't have a problem with spirit summoning, but I wish that the game didn't punish players who choose not to use them. Like if they got decreased the AOE on some attacks if there are no summons out.

[@jordykoo1643]

Nah mini bosses in sekiro are cheap asf

[@Stryfe52]

@@jordykoo1643 true, Juzou and his 16 cousins are all super annoying

[@chrisyentastic379]

As a souls veteran playing with friends who are new to the series, it’s interesting to see the divide between newbies using the easier methods but can’t do anything solo and a veteran who is beating every boss solo. I can’t blame them, why not use the easy method when it’s presented to you. The difference in Elden Ring vs other souls games is summoning felt like cheating yourself out of a real challenge and boss fight, while in Elden Ring you are handicapping yourself fighting a boss solo.

[@CollinMac96]

There’s no boss is souls borne that I’d recommend summoning for. Even the gank squad in dsII were manageable with some cheeky tactics. I couldn’t imagine trying to solo Godskin Duo, the Maliketh, or Radagon/EB. Those fights aren’t fun solo and it got to the point where I just wanted to beat the game so I can move on to other games.

[@georgemartinez4864]

@@CollinMac96 there is one boss I do recommend summoning for. It's the Iron Golem. If you summon Black Iron Tarkus he basically solos the boss. I would advise summoning him just because later in the story u encounter him again

[@sasoriharuno2898]

I really think this is a side effect of Fromsoft directly intending for the Player to use every tool possible to make it through fights, which is likely directly why the bosses are so ridiculously difficult to do solo. An example being Malenia who can be fought and defeated solo but with certain builds that is practically impossible without playing absolutely perfectly. I like the way one youtuber put it, though I cant remember his name. Its possible that Fromsoft designed many of these bosses with unfairness in mind as a way to push the player to use equally unfair tactics to gain an advantage. It essentially becomes a puzzle/strategy of finding the tools fit for the job and developing a plan to beat the boss in a way that tips the scales in your favor rather than the usual slamming your head against the brick wall until it breaks. I think it is a really interesting change in design philosophy if this is true, which it seems it is to me, and even if it isn't for everyone there are definitely a lot of people who enjoy it.

[@notjohn5988]

That’s where I feel like the souls community falters though. That pride they have for “doing everything the hard way” is what is driving that divide when it’s just…there. You aren’t forced to use it, it’s just another thing in the toolbelt. Sure it may make things easier but that shouldn’t affect you specifically because other people using summons has 0 affect on YOUR experience. People wanna have fun and using summons, sometimes, is fun.

[@SleeplessSpecter]

@@CollinMac96 Maliketh has like no health. Why would you need to summon for him? He’s a 1v1 fight as well.

[@KillaP4ND47]

I love elden ring but the fact that I can bully Melania with a summon 1st try or fight her for 3 hours by myself is kinda stupid.

[@Petard95]

I think i spend around 6 hours on her before giving up and 2nd try her with mimic

[@LSB44446]

Yeah, I understand people who say "use mimic" but if I didn't have to summon for any of the other 5 games and could still get by, I think I should be able to now. I think this game needs a PvE balance patch, and will die on that hill, because if a summon can be the diffefence between 3 hours on not just one boss but multiple (the last like 6 of them...) I think they should be tuned down. I platinumed and put thousand hours in the games as a whole, I'm not someone who just started playing and just doesn't get it.

[@eanderson9599]

Right, it just never feels as satisfying even though it was balanced with a summon in mind

[@bob3ironfist]

That is every souls game to be fair. All the bosses become very easy with summons.

[@yourbelovedautumn]

they could increase the health of bosses or buff them when you summon, kinda like summoning phantoms in a way

[@Lm0956]

I agree elden ring bosses felt like a coin flip between destroying the boss or getting destroyed immediately

[@paulgibbon5991]

I died 20+ times to Margit, used a summon and he died second try. Not because the skeletons were dealing huge damage, but because even small breaks from the hyper aggro and endless combos tipped the balance that much.

[@arclight7892]

Most of the bosses and normal enemies in this game also use delayed attacks so often. It was good when only a few unique bosses like nameless king did that but here the enemies defy the law of physics and float for 2-3 seconds in the air when they attack.

[@amritmanhas2630]

and when nameless king did it, it was unique, every other boss was quick before that. It really threw me off. ER has the NK delays but with everyone from bosses to mobs.@@arclight7892

[@envoyofrot7046]

Honestly I have a much bigger problem with the mob enemy balance. Some just do such a ridiculously high damage. I feel like the damage in the entire late Game is way too high

[@DioDCynic]

fromsoft wants you to grind a lot to destroy enemies, but they are very aware this will make you OP for the second part of the game, so they just break the enemies in the second part.

[@Hirotoro4692]

You just didn't have enough vigor

[@geert574]

You need to stand at palace ledge road 100hrs bro, every Fromsoft is always about the grind not much else

[@cullenpinney2997]

@@Hirotoro4692 I have 70 and wear one of the heaviest armors in the game a mob from farum azula can do half my healthbar in two hits

[@falcoon_f_zero9450]

And then they gank you in Elphael with like 4 Haligtree Knights and an Erdtree avatar at the same time, each being super tanky and able to 2 hit you. The mobs are sometimes so horrible in this one.

[@GhostRiposte]

Props for the in-depth analysis, especially hitting on why bosses in prior games feel like a more fluid back and forth, whereas something here feels a little bit off. A number of bosses feel like they're either waiting for you to do something or you're just waiting for them to be done and hoping there's a tiny window at the end of the combo. I didn't really consider this imbalance may come from the attention given to the spirit summons as I didn't really use them, but it's something to think about!

[@flamingmanure]

bosses in the prior games feel more like a back and forth because they got good at it. these same complaints were echoed constantly when sekiro came out. in truth democracy and alot of vets thought they would breeze through elden ring becuz its dark souls 4 in their heads, glad fromsoft didnt agree and designed a more aggressive playsyle. "A number of bosses feel like they're either waiting for you to do something or you're just waiting for them to be done and hoping there's a tiny window at the end of the combo" you can say that about half the bosses from bb and especially sekiro, and the key in elden is aggression and staying close. from just doesnt want you to back off anymore. the entire philosophy of from games to punish enemy mistakes with their recovery animation. its always been like this. except in ER they expect u to also smack the enemy mid combo by dodging and positioning far more than dark souls. for example, dodge the revanent correctly once in the north west direction, ending up close to his butt, and the idiot will continue their 20 sec combo into the wind while u jump attack their ass 3 times in a row. i have killed a few without time for them to even turn around. im glad fromsoft keep ignoring their fanbase cuz frankly alot of them pretend to be game analysts and developers, if it was up to fromsofts fanbase, we wouldve constantly gotten dull ds1 and bb clones. we wouldve never gotten sekiro or elden ring. keep doing wht your doing fromsoft!

[@peter_griffith522]

@@flamingmanure ignoring the fans is not good look at halo.......

[@GhostRiposte]

@@flamingmanure @AH silver First of all I love the game and a majority of the bosses. I've beaten most of them pretty cleanly at this point and the combat still doesn't feel particularly fluid to me. I don't know what that has to do with how hard I did or didn't think the game would be. I don't know why you chose to be so dismissive in your last little bit, like fans can't have a critique even if they loved the game overall. I think they listen more than you think. For example, equip load originally being tied to strength. I don't know how you'd know if they do or don't take feedback lol

[@joshuakim5240]

@@flamingmanure The thing is, those same complaints don't apply to Sekiro at all because it's the MOST back-and-forth combat Fromsoft game ever made once one learns how to play it (aka not like Dark Souls). In Sekiro, you're constantly blocking, parrying, and counterattacking sometimes several times in the span of a few seconds because you can and you're supposed to. Elden Ring in this regard goes too hard into Dark Souls while having some bosses reminiscent of Sekiro, as blocking sucks without extremely specific setups, parrying is very different and is so risky that it's a very inaccessible tech that isn't even usable vs most bosses, and counterattacking with the new Guard Counter mechanic also sucks vs bosses by virtue of blocking sucking so much in tandem with being unable to be pulled off until after a boss' combo so it doesn't change the turn-esc pace of the fight at all. If anything Elden Ring should have leaned more into Sekiro's combat for a more dynamic back-and-forth pace instead of every boss being a glorified turn-based fight where you have to wait for the boss to let you hit them to the point of negating aggression on the player's part entirely.

[@spleeneater9481]

​@@flamingmanure "except in ER they expect u to smack the enemy mid combo" my man have you used an ultra gs against malenia or radagon? I see where you get this take from (Maliketh is a perfect example of this, and his 2nd phase is among the better fights because of it imo). Even outside of ultra gs, mechanics like Malenias heal on it and waterfowl dance both punish this. In fact, most bosses have aoe moves or very good tracking to counter this playstyle - and input reads ensure that most of the time, they do. I dont mind the input reading on its own, as it means that the player is more often punished for mistakes, such as playing too aggressive. You also say the key in ER is aggression, but increased recovery frames, roll buffering, status effects, rolls being inputed on button release, are all things that discourage aggression. Of course, some weapons can play VERY aggro (daggers turn you into a DoT effect), but most cannot. This is good for build variety, as swinging a slow weapon will actually be slow, but the bosses have far too much HP to make trading safe unless you have a chad build. I see where you're coming from, and fromsoft def wanted the player to be more active this time around. But the player is as slow as in previous entries, and maybe even slower than in DS3, thought I cannot confirm this. DS3 was hella fast for a souls game, and the fights in this game are even faster. But the bosses have more mix-ups, more moves, and more mechanics. The player, for the most part, does not. I dont think they're awful. In fact, Elden beast is the only main boss I consider bad, but hes shit for entirely different reasons than the ones I mentioned. Malenia, Maliketh, Godfrey, Radagon, Placidusax, are all very good fights. But compared to Midir and Gael and Friede and Sword Saint and Owl (father)? Meh. Malenia would be my favorite Sekiro boss. Radagon is very fun, the first time you kill him. Maliketh and Godfrey are great, and Placidusax is the best quick time event ive ever fought. Sorry for the long ass reply, I just like typing.

[@josephtaczy4345]

Been finding myself more frustrated with this game more than any other, so I completely agree

[@mikewillard34]

Lol, you bad at it.

[@zelohendricks51]

@@mikewillard34 Fanboys like you are funny

[@Darthvader00]

@@mikewillard34toxic fanboy spotted

[@fireclash7653]

@@zelohendricks51 git gud

[@fireclash7653]

@@Darthvader00 Mad cuz bad

[@nezcron]

I love fighting the bosses but I hate how I always end up dying in one or two hits, it just makes me feel like no matter what armor I get, I won't be able to actually benefit from it

[@geert574]

U have slight benefit from heaviest armor and 99 everything in fact ng4 and onwards demands it but I always move on to more fun games before that. Miyazaki is a one trick pony

[@theobell2002]

20 vigor Andy

[@giddyhorizon4890]

The sad thing for me with this game is I never felt any sort of satifaction for beating any of the bosses in this game nor when I finished the game. I just felt dissapointed from beginning to end.

[@TurboMintyFresh]

me too. Its not fun to me

[@Yorikoification]

My mate and I co-oped it from beginning to end. By the late game we were exhausted and was really not enjoying the ride. I'm no Fromsoft fanboy, I can genuinely say that I would not recommend this game

[@sagenebula7120]

Honestly im only missing 2 achievements and i got to new game 8 just cause i wanted to love the game like i loved dark souls 3, but tbh the gameplay feels like such a regression

[@leonardohoffmann6845]

I only felt dissapointment with malenia for being complete bullshit and with the elden beast, for the reason that it keeps running away and you cant use torrent, just bullshit

[@spinoah8439]

Honestly the only from soft game that made me feel accomplished was sekiro

[@JLHoskins]

I'll add onto the key issue with Elden Ring: Spirit Summons are there to counter the lack of openings within bosses, but they don't have a weakness/risk that balances it out; like how Bloodborne's parry system does. In theory, however, Elden Ring's spirit system CAN work. There's one spirit in particular that perfectly showcases this working in execution: Latenna, the Albinauric archer. As a summons she can dish out pretty fair damage, but in exchange she can't move. If she gets a boss's attention, she WILL die! So this forces you into a strategy which requires you to aggressively engage the boss to keep her alive, while she backs you up with arrow fire and builds up stance damage. It's much more satisfying because you were fighting much harder to keep HER alive, instead of the other way around. Because of this, Latenna's a great summon (my favorite personally). She feels like a part of your build. However... this also highlights another issue with summons: Lots of spirit summons don't feel like they're part of your build. It's not like you can command them to use certain strategies; - Get aggressive in order to grab the boss's attention and/or buy you time. - Back you up from long range so you can be more aggressive towards the boss. - Order them to commit a suicide charge, sacrificing the spirit for great damage. Etc. Etc. Etccc. You can't control a spirit's strategy whatsoever. So when you actually do kill a boss with spirits, it doesn't feel as satisfying because majority of the time it doesn't feel like you're included since the boss is focusing their difficult assault on the spirit instead of you. What if the spirit summons actually had weaknesses that enforced certain strategies? - What if when a spirit died, it sacrificed parts of your health or put you into a long recovery animation; Forcing you into a playstyle that keeps them alive to prevent that? - What if all the spirit summons had a, "Latenna," weakness; forcing you into a playstyle that matches the spirit's combat style? - What if you could actually command summons; creating custom strategies for bosses which work? Etc. There's so many ways to help engage the player to use spirits more, but as they are right now, it just feels like summoning another player to lighten the burden. TL:DR- The main issue with Elden Ring is that Spirit Summons don't feel like they're part of your build, they just feel like they're another player carrying you; so it's not as satisfying.

[@joeytoofly5139]

That is so true and there is a story and quest associated with her that makes using her as a summon that much more impactful i think. I used her to help take out the black flame kindred at the beast sanctum at an early level and it was SUPER enjoyable. The summons should have glaring strengths and weaknesses that enhance your build and experience.

[@burgbass]

The thing is also that you can only summon them at certain points, the ash summons may not even be all that helpful during gank fights because they just get ganked instead of them drawing the ire of one boss while you focus the other

[@Walamonga1313]

The issue is that spirit summons exist and bosses are balanced with them in mind

[@joejardine4489]

I agree with this and I’d like to add the jarwight puppet onto the list as it is extremely weak but very useful as it can proc status effects so u want to keep the bosses attention on you so that the jarwight can build up his status

[@xxxs8309]

True,that's why I used the mimic ash for most of my run

[@alexgoncharov6430]

It takes a lot of willpower to stop playing video game when attempting to overcome a challenging part. I gave up at Malenia. The gratification from beating her doesn’t worth the bitterness it brings to my life

[@TheFirstCurse1]

Don't even worry about her. She's such a bullshit boss.

[@NiszczycielFrajerni]

@@TheFirstCurse1 git gud

[@TheFirstCurse1]

@@NiszczycielFrajerni She's literally a completely unfair boss that doesn't even follow the established mechanics of the game that she's in.

[@NiszczycielFrajerni]

@@TheFirstCurse1 how doesn't she follow the mechanics? how is she unfair? learn patterns focus up and beat her. she's optional so if you are bad at this type of games you don't have to kill her.

[@TheFirstCurse1]

@@NiszczycielFrajerni She's the only boss that will animation cancel in the whole game and switch up moves. Her waterfowl dance is a bullshit move that's basically an instant kill for anyone who doesn't know the EXTREMELY PRECISE AND EXACT movement. And on top of all that she heals a shit load with every hit she deals to you. Fromsoft fucked up badly with her by making a Sekiro boss and putting her in Elden Ring. She's unlike any other boss in her game, and that isn't fair or balanced. It's bullshit. The final boss should test all of your skills that you learned from every other enemy and boss, but instead Malenia wants you to play a different game entirely and forget everything you knew. They wanted to make the ultimate video game boss and dropped the ball HARD.

[@rosskaske6357]

Malenia is a stupid boss. Waterfowl dance is a dumb mechanic. From glazers can't come to terms with this.

[@thatmemeguy2520]

True i love souls games but i would never glaze Elden ring and imo water fowl and heal on hit ar both just gimmicks things that make her 1 of the hardest

[@Slaughter_Hill]

Beat her easily yesterday with the omenkiller cleaver. Skill issue

[@thatmemeguy2520]

@@Slaughter_Hill not really a skill issue iv done harder challenges on the other souls games and nioh 2 no armor on NG+

[@rosskaske6357]

@@Slaughter_Hill Great job, I beat her 2 years ago when the game came out. We're all so proud of you. And also I beat her with the wooden club SL1 zero upgrades, and no summons, so you didn't actually beat her unless you did those things. Skill issue

[@Slaughter_Hill]

@@rosskaske6357 skill issue. Keep malding

[@ValorantCurios]

I haven't personally used the spirit ashes and have soloed many bosses. I think everything you mentioned is fair & true. But the scale also comes from other factors; like they want to leave farming runes easier, there's a naturally higher level cap (I mean level 150-200 is normal) which means you are pushed towards playing with various tools. Range battle is NEEDED to take some of the heat off of solo fighting. Be it magic, faith or even just kunai's which have like an S scaling for non-magic builds. It's just a very different game then the past and it demands other mediums in order to overcome its challenge. Either way, you are right on a lot of these points. Builds are either trash or OP. I have yet to find a middle while playing around with everything. Even for PVP!!

[@peterjapanese6489]

This isn't a good thing though. You shouldn't have to be pushed into using certain tools to get a well rounded experience. You certainly shouldn't have to farm either. I would even argue that if a boss forces you to use spirit summons, it's not a good thing.

[@kingkunta3753]

@@peterjapanese6489 you aren't forced, there are plently of people doin it without lol, just need to get better

[@peterjapanese6489]

@@kingkunta3753 Literally click my profile before you try to tell me that. I've literally beat Malenia at level 1 hitless... kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYC7lnScZdeqr8U

[@jonathanmayland3162]

"oh you have a complaint about the game? Just git gud lol" fucking hate this fanbase so much

[@blues4509]

@@kingkunta3753 yeah correction. Of course you aren't forced, just prepare to subscribe yourself to having a miserable time if you don't play the "right" way

[@Gingerlover716]

I think Joseph anderson stated it perfectly, it feels like the bosses were designed like they were in sekiro, where the long and drawn out combos were put in for a flurry of parries. I mean it even had the same kind of stagger mechanic but with none of the right toold. So you end up either dodging beause you got too close at the start of the combo or you just wait on the outskirts where the boss does his liitle dance recital and your just forced to watch.

[@marcosdheleno]

there are more ways to deal with attacks than dodge. people are stuck in the "dex build" to realize that you can equip a shield that will go a long way there, and you also have a jump. you would be surprised by how many attacks you can avoid by just jumping. also, people arent putting points to get more stamina, so they end up not having enough for combos/jump attacks/dodge rolls.

[@lanceareadbhar]

@@marcosdheleno I will say I forgot about the jump button when avoiding attacks and it does help in some situations. Some people just like not using a shield and that's worked for them in most of the games, but it is not fair to assume the same is true in this game. I kind of hope FromSoft limits there weapons in the future as it is an impossible task to balance the bosses given the possible combinations of late game builds.

[@marcosdheleno]

@@lanceareadbhar " Some people just like not using a shield" and thats on them. its like saying "people dont like guns in bloodborne". this is a setup that is self implied. the tool is there, them using it or not, is up to them. even if they dont use shields, how many of them forget to block as well? and how many of the hits are due to counter dmg from getting hit mid animation?

[@schmockonaut4843]

@@lanceareadbhar My philosophy for most souls games is: its only as hard as you make it be. Yes ofc you could run through ER with RL 1 and no weapon upgrades etc. but you can also just go into the game, start dex guy and get moonveil which will carry you through the entire game, combine that with 23 faith + 15 arcane to run ekzykes decay / 15 faith 12 arcane to run rotten breath and you can pretty much just win 95% of the bossfights by AFKing in corners or spamming some stupidly broken weaponart. Im in my 3rd newgame cycle and ran radagon with rivers of blood and it was a pain since he cant bleed. so i just went, respected a bit, took the fingerprint greatshield and bolt of gransax, slapped on some stamine talismen and held l1 and spammed r1, guy didnt even deal enough damage to me to drain 1 estus and i didnt roll once. also, the game cant be this hard when there are people running glitchless all remembrances rune lvl 1 runs in 2 hours and 30 minutes, of course you will have to learn attack patterns but thats what makes the game replayable and so enjoyable, you will always see something new. TLDR: game is only as hard as you make it out to be, just run around with a greatshield + rivers of blood / moonveil + some good source of scarlet rot and the game is a cakewalk

[@Mandingy24]

@@marcosdheleno the problem here is that for Elden Ring, they balanced the bosses around optional systems. Sekiro worked so well because you had a limited arsenal, and the tools that the bosses were designed around were imbedded in the combat system itself. It's obvious they ingrained some Sekiro DNA into Elden Ring bosses, but it's simply not a combat system designed to handle that on just the fundamentals.

[@SuperRadHandle]

I'm glad someone took the time to put this into the right words, I couldn't agree more. The absolute peak of the souls design formula for me was the nameless king in DS3. I tried, died, rinsed, repeated. And it was a blast! It was like having a mentor, sternly pointing out every mistake you were foolish enough to make, demanding bettering. When he finally fell, i was well surprised: this dance had taken me in so deeply I had completely forgotten his health bar. ER on the other hand? Hyperagressive, supermobile, larger than camera control allows gimmick bosses that one shot you when they feel like it and get almost complely disabled by the ash win button. I was looking forward to finally getting into challenge running, the last bosses have convinced to put this game down for a good while instead.

[@mpr746]

You know you are in the zone when you forget about the boss's health bar!

[@Molotov_Milkshake]

So you're upset because Elden Ring is harder than DS3? Git gud.

[@escala8559]

@@Molotov_Milkshake ER's dance is less refined than the one from past entries. We got gud, the bosses got bad.

[@Molotov_Milkshake]

@@escala8559 Absolute nonsense. You're crying about the best game ever made.

[@Molotov_Milkshake]

@@escala8559 so more variance is a problem for you? Rofl keep crying. The game is awesome. multiple playthroughs as different builds confirms it for me. I'm yet to meet a boss I can't kill. Git gud and stop whining.

[@Ouroboros619]

Elden Ring DLC: Bosses chain attacks together endlessly, delay, deal immense damage, boasts high HP and defense, plenty of AoE. Also, if they don't hit you every 20 seconds, they get pissed and perform an unavoidable arena-wide attack that deals 50% of your HP. Oh, and if you take off more than 10% of their HP within 10 seconds, they stop the battle and make you sit there for five minutes while they regenerate that damage back. If you enter with any bleed weapon, they'll stand there shaking their head and you can't damage them. You have to leave the arena.

[@debater452]

It's almost like this isn't DS3

[@thedarkroom6416]

Lol

[@mantigames8248]

yup, I love Elden Ring but the deeper I get into it the more disappointed I am

[@LilMrPizza]

Whenever I think about fair difficulty, I typically go to one main question: Am I being rewarded for making the correct decisions, and punished for making the wrong decisions? It's something that every other game in the series seems to understand, except this one. The most common example is Waterfowl Dance. If you get hit by the attack, you can very easily die very quickly, and it's unbelievably difficult to avoid. However, if you do manage to get past it and take no damage, Malenia takes so little time to recover that you can't get any real damage off, and if you do, it's not all that much. So being punished for making the wrong decisions, but you're not being rewarded for making the right decisions. And at that point, you need to ask, is this difficulty really worth it? We all love the rush we get for beating a hard challenge in these games, but that rush fades pretty quickly. If you were working an 8 hour shift at a retail store for free, you probably get a feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction with yourself for the work you put in. But is that feeling so strong that you'd actively want to do it again? I think most people would say no. And to be brutally honest, a lot of the harder fights in Elden Ring felt that way to me. Like an arduous, lengthy test in both frustration and boredom that gave me a middling, temporary feeling of accomplishment that wasn't nearly enough to make my time feel well warranted.

[@yusufbukhari6962]

You get a fully charged R2 after it what are you talking about?? Me beating Melania without parrying in 2 minutes kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmXOm2ZmpJJnjMk

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

Malenia is the only one I think hits that line, though. Every other boss with variability in the moveset has viable options to manage each step. Some have mega-damage combos, challenging attack strings, or X-or-die moves; each has a means around it. Margit's early long-strings expressly teach you to study instead of panic rolling. Astel's and Loretta's mega-killer ranged attack tests your ability to pick timing and direction well. Mogh's huge flying attacks teach you to consider carefully your roll direction. Malenia is the only one whose super-lethal combo requires multiple challenging dodges to evade in a row, your prize is the same thin attack window as all the other moves, and the healing is a very feels-bad mechanic when boss healing is extremely rare in the game.

[@yusufbukhari6962]

@@UnreasonableOpinions Melania is easy to parry which gives massive damage opportunities. It's only a bit harder than parrying Morgott, which is what you're supposed to do. Even without parrying, Melania is only like two minutes to kill kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmXOm2ZmpJJnjMk

[@NickJJU]

I love the game. I'm at about 170 hours so far, well into my second playthrough and I'm still playing. I think these are all valid and well-made points, but the only part that really bothers me is the insane damage the late-game bosses can do, combined with the insane damage the player is capable of. Trying to beat Malenia got frustrating not just because she was hard, but because learning to counter her was made so much more tedious because one mistake would cost my life. There are a lot of bosses like this. Sometimes, you're struggling to learn how to avoid an attack in their second phase. So you get through phase one, fight them until they use that move you don't know how to deal with, and oops, you chose the wrong option, try again next time. So you have to walk back to the boss, beat their first phase again, and you get a one-time pass or fail chance to learn. The toughest bosses in the series were hard because making a mistake would force you to use your flasks/other resources. So if you screw up too much, you run out of chances to screw up again. Against Elden Ring's later bosses, you screw up once or twice and die for it. But if they lowered the damage to a more reasonable level, I think most of the bosses would be a joke with some of the strong builds available in the game. So they would need to lower the damage the player can do, or increase boss/enemy health to compensate. Even levelling vigor like crazy, it feels like every build in Elden Ring and most of its enemies and bosses are glass cannons, which isn't a very accessible playstyle.

[@jonnymario771]

My expectation is just not getting 1 tapped. At 45 vigor I could survive pretty much anything, plus using phys/nonphys res talismans made me much tankier. And not even using a rune arc.

[@ThoA45]

@@jonnymario771 same here. I'm using medium armor + double swordspear tree and Malenia wasn't dealing that much damage to me. I mean, i died a lot on her, but it was because i played like shit and i actually appreciated the aggressiveness she had. I did all boss solo but on my second char, i do them differently, sometimes with summons and the game become a joke. There are builds who are just immensely strong it's ridiculous. If you combine these WITH spirits ashes, you just faceroll the game as long as you're not a complete newbie. Frankly, i understand the bosses being so strong with ALL the tools we have at our disposals.

[@KLK01]

T Armor is useless and tbh so is vigor. Like why even level up vigor if you're still going to get 1-2 shot by late end bosses?

[@sullivan451]

I think the issue is people get tunnel vision on their preferred play styles at the expense of being able to see all the possibilities. The idea that armor doesn't matter is a holdover from Dark Souls 3 that a lot of vets take for granted here, but this is Elden Ring, ot Dark Souls 3. The variety of spell buffs and crafting consumables is really not talked about much. I have been having so much more fun with the different pots, especially since they each have their own scaling. I don't think DeMod is wrong, however. The balance is all messed up because of this, that's the argument he's making.

[@reviewreviews5908]

I think the best thing elden ring could do is lower the Progression players can do so everybody face the same boss whatever build you do. Points in vigor at the start of the game makes you overpiwered but other stats are significant lower. Fix this Problem and bosses are challenging again or you need to farm 2 days to get ocerpowered.

[@dires]

Elden Ring tourists hate this video to this day and the video still applies heavily to the DLC

[@caramio437]

The “problem” with Elden Ring is that it goes against the intuition of the player, the player will think he finally has time to attack, but it will end up being a trade hit at best, sometimes it feels like you are fighting against your own reflexes when playing.

[@tristanhendon2086]

especially with what feels like cheap fakeout attacks from the bosses. there was a period where I had stood in front of margit and watched him unleash a literal unending storm of attacks. if I ever got close enough to swing he would end a chain with the double dagger slice and hop away. I discovered that the only way to get him to stay in one spot was to cheese his ai, if you manage to curve enough around his left hip he will no longer spam. I've always found it unsatisfying to be unable to fight a boss head-on and needing to resort to abusing turning ai, but many fights in this game do not create openings for players to attack without trading. Incredibly frustrating to play perfectly and be rewarded with trades that favor the boss, outright kill the player, or outpoise them with incredibly faster speed. (mans swinging a damn tree at the speed I stab with a rapier).

[@ohhai10]

I agree. It's why I think Mohg is the best boss in the game. His attacks are simple yet tough, he destroys panic rolling, but he has very clear openings and patterns that are consistent throughout. Phase 2 changes some of the openings but they are still consistent. The blood flame everywhere in phase 2 is a little much but every time you die to him you know why. Even with his NIHIL stuff he feels extremely fair, and even that can be canceled out if you have the specific flask.

[@LanPodder]

@@tristanhendon2086 you took the worst example here. Margit has openings IN HIS COMBOS. Like when he delays his attacks thats when you get to attack. So hard disagree on that one. Howver there really are a lot of bosses that dont really let you attack or drink like malenia at times or godskin apostle

[@tristanhendon2086]

@@LanPodder that complaint wasn't geared torwards him though? ofc you can get hits in on his longer delays and certain moves, like when he raises the staff above his head, etc. my complain was that he never stopped attacking the player period, if you are in range he will sling a never ending swarm of attacks that limits your options to reposition, attack, or heal, especially in his phase two where he brings out the swords.

[@louisgworld]

The noticeable input delay on dodging exacerbates this.

[@DaryanBR]

This video was already good back then, but it's aged particularly well after we've seen Shadow of the Erdtree and its incredibly disappointing bosses.

[@glaba24]

I feel that the biggest missed opportunity for bosses is the lack of attacks that can be jumped over. When I first played the game I assumed this was going to be a partial Sekiro kind of experience where there are multiple types of attacks with "correct" ways of dodging them even if there are alternatives. I figured low sweeping attacks would be the obvious to jump over and get a free hit in but as I attempted it on Margit, I would find myself getting hit everytime. On the occasion that there are bosses with attacks you can jump over, I enjoy exploiting that for free damage and posture but for many there are not which is very disappointing. I also personally feel that the game in general would be better if you could see posture bars like in Sekiro so you could decide to go for a hail mary jump heavy to down a boss before he hits you or you can tell that for the time and effort its taking, trying to stagger a boss is not worth it.

[@ianlindstrom2019]

You can jump over a lot of sweeping attacks, but you have to be careful about hills. Only the bottom of your body gets s, so if you jump when lower on a hill than the boss you won't clear the attack hitbox.

[@eanderson9599]

It literally took until the final boss for them to throw in a move where you had to jump

[@redduskironsky1058]

Its sad that the very last boss of the game is the one that requires you to use the jump button as a dodge mechanic...none of the rest force you to do it since even if the AOEs are groundshaking moves...you can casually roll with good timing either way.

[@thehotwindblowing]

the most unfortunate part about this is that the attacks that can be jumped are just not very well communicated visually. in sekiro there was the perilous blow indicator but ofc this couldn't be added to elden ring, and the problem is there are some attacks that visually reach your foot hurtbox but can be jumped like the crucible knight/godfrey stomps that create these vertical stone spikes... whereas some look like they should go under you but can't be jumped. makes engage with the mechanic tedious to have to trial and error each attack to see if it can be jumped so I imaigne most people dont bother.

[@yourbelovedautumn]

@@eanderson9599 godfrey exists, it's optional but its there