ELDEN RING LORE: The Helphen

[@CrunchyVideos]

Couple of things I wanted to add: - There are two more candletrees people have pointed out to me; one in the Weeping Peninsula, and another in Consecrated Snowfield. I haven't confirmed exactly where these are yet. - There are actually three versions of Roundtable Hold (Brilliant, right?) A third version is found when you travel to the hub after retrieving either half of the Haligtree Medallion, and Ensha invades you. This version is much darker than the hub, it's completely empty besides Ensha, and Ensha is able to attack you. - Another location from a previous Fromsoft game which is similar to the Ancestral Lake or Elden Beast arena is the Hunter's Dream from Bloodborne; there are a bunch of huge wooden pillars in the distance. This location is also not fully real, and also has a physical(?) counterpart. - The Fire Monk sword-tree objects can also be found near Zamor Ruins, where there is a group of Thorn-Fire Sorcerers and a Prelate nearby. - The strange statue of a bald man and a growing tree in the Roundtable Hold can also be found in Stormveil and Leyndell-- I haven't seen it anywhere else. However, he appears to have the same face as the giant smouldering heads in Limgrave present in the Network Test version which Lance McDonald has unearthed. Interesting to note that many bodies crucified a-la-Marika throughout Limgrave have smouldering bodies. - The Twinbird Kite Shield depicts a black bird against a red background and a red bird against a blue background. If the black bird is somehow represented or manifested by the Deathbirds, it begs the question what the red bird is. In alchemical symbolism, this would represent the raven and the phoenix, symbolizing a kind of physical death and release into the spiritual world (whether literal or metaphorical). - More on the Eclipse in my next video about Miquella. Edited-- PS: Several people have commented about Rosus and the statues which emit light pointing towards catacombs. To be honest this completely slipped my mind while making the video. Guiding light and undead seem related to the Helphen, but I’m not sure how exactly, so I don’t have any cogent thoughts about it anyway. PPS: Just noticed that the Confessor Armor has an insignia very similar to the pared-down Elden Ring/Ranni's Rune symbol I speak about near the end of the video. Anyone got theories about why this is here?

[@MadAtreides1]

at 7:22 you show the swords in the Roundtable Hall which are seemingly turning into trees. They look to me themselves a connection between "death in battle" and a "tree of the dead". 12:47 that image of the Land Between during the Shattering is clearly inspired by the 1894 depiction of the Götterdämmerung (twilight of the gods, aka the ragnarok), "Valhalla in flames", by Max Brückner (image is the first picture of this wikipedia article - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tterd%C3%A4mmerung ) If the Lands Between really are inspired by the Valhalla, then they are indeed a plane of existence separeted by the rest of the "human world" (by the Sea of Fog, anyone?), which incidentally makes Ranni's plan pointlessy redundant. 23:00 the red rays point to the head of a giant, they literally emanate from its mouth (or are drawn into it). You can vaguely see its outlines at 23:52 - 23:53

[@saulgoneman]

"The strange statue of a bald man and a growing tree in the Roundtable Hold can also be found in Stormveil and Leyndell" There are similar statues with more roots around the base found on the Bellum Highway iirc. Edit: Also, I am surprised you didn't mention Rosus. "Usher of Death, Rosus, who shows the path to the catacombs throughout the Lands Between, is depicted on this ritual axe. The dead easily lose their way, and have always been in sore need of a guiding hand." - Rosus' Axe. Rosus guides the dead with a lamp-like light, as seen in the statues presumably depicting him throughout the catacombs. It would also connect to your speculation that the Helphen tree is related to the Greattree roots of the catacombs. Rosus' summons and Tibia's summons also use similar language: "Summons a group of Those Lost in Death. Three skeletons will appear some distance from the caster and attack foes before disappearing. The dead have long been left to wander; what they need is leadership." - Tibia's Summons. "Raise the axe aloft to summon those lost in death. Three skeletons will appear at a distance and attack in tandem before vanishing." - Rosus' Summons. The statues that guide you to the catacombs (again, presumably Rosus) also emit a light similar to Grace. Rosus at the very least seems to fulfil a similar role to the Helphen tree and the Tibia mariners.

[@CrunchyVideos]

@@saulgoneman Ooh thanks I didn't notice Bellum Highway! Yeah I completely forgot about Rosus lol.

[@saulgoneman]

Fair, there are so many random lore tidbits of unclear significance that it's difficult to keep track of them all.

[@justwelsh]

@@CrunchyVideos would like to add The Mending Rune of Death also looks like an Eclipse Might be worth looking into for your eclipse video

[@shybandit521]

The eternal city which had its sky stolen is what is now the unnamed eternal city in Deeproot Depths. Same architecture, same ants, but anything Nox has been evacuated or stolen.

[@elleofmusic]

Oh snap, that's actually a really great point!

[@veronicatazri9092]

Yes but also no. I think ALL the Eternal Cities had their sky stolen. That was part of their punishment for trying to kill the fingers (fingerslayer blade below the giant maiden made from the corpse of a person) and when the city was buried they were given a false night sky "to wait for their Lord of Night" Uhl ruins in Liurnia stands just above an Eternal City, the same one Astel is in, both sharing Ancestor Spirit followers and the same statues so they were all buried and ruined. Both the Eternal Cities that have names Nokron and Nokstella Also both have 1 dead giantess maiden. The only city to be missing their giant maiden is the unnamed one. Using this I think Nokron and Nokstella were their names and what the cities were named after (Much like the current demigods sharing lots of name similarities)

[@shybandit521]

@@veronicatazri9092 I'm pretty sure it's stated some places that the Astels were created long after the cities were buried, and the only city without a sky right now is the unnamed one. Common theory is that the Malformed Stars were made as a super-weapon or something, but then the strongest one, Astel, went rogue.

[@veronicatazri9092]

@@shybandit521 Astels aren't created. They're falling stars. The game even says this and their face/eye is identical to fallingstar beasts "A malformed star born in the flightless void far away. Once destroyed an Eternal City and took away their sky. A falling star of ill omen." and we find him in an Eternal City with a false night sky below a lake of rot The game also states numerous times the Eternal Cities commited "treason" and the Greater Will sent Astel to punish them "This blood-drenched fetish is proof of the high treason committed by the Eternal City and symbolizes its downfall." "Long ago the Nox invoked the ire of the Greater will and were banished deep underground. Now they live under a false night sky. In eternal anticipation of their liege, of the coming age of stars and their Lord of Night" Common theory doesn't interest me when I can read what the game tells me and everything fits into place.

[@Skibbutz]

@@shybandit521 I have litterally never heard anyone say the malformed stars were made by the nox

[@TheTomJon]

Mans predicted the DLC 9 months before the announcement

[@jono9717]

Berserk's music feels almost too perfect for this sort of speculative video, really nice hearing it used so pleasantly.

[@shogomakishima7224]

Right so here are my general thoughts not sure how useful you will find them: 1. Mausoleums hold soulless demigods that died in the night of black knives after Godwyn. I think so based on: - Spirit dialogue: "The mausoleum prowls. Cradling the soulless demigod. O Marika, Queen Eternal. He is your unwanted child" -Trailer: "The rune of death was stolen and the demigods begain to fall starting with Godwyn The Golden." So this is a pretty straightforward connection. Now I do have more that are a bit more elusive 2. Deathbirds are somehow connected to Godwyn and other soulless demigods. I am not certain about the nature of this connection but it is clearly there because there are so many things that point this way: -"The wing-shaped ornaments on its back evoke the Deathbird. A self-inflicted curse that ties the spirits of these loyal knights to the land, having willingly beheaded themselves so that they may serve theirs masters in death." - armor decryption of the headless knight -"Hatchet used in ancient sacrificial rite. A Deathbird is depicted as a malevolent deity." - Hatchet dropped by one of the deathbirds -The skulls on the walking mausoleums resemble Rancorcall spell and skulls Rancor Pot: "In times of old, the dead were burned with ghostflame, and from those cinders arose vengeful spirits." and "In the time when there was no Erdtree, death was burned in ghostflame. Deathbirds were the keepers of that fire." - "Ritual spear used by priests of old who were permitted to come among the Deathbirds. The priests became guardians of the birds through the rite of Death, which also serves as an oath sworn to their distant resurrection. " - this is the decryption of Death Ritual Spear and the ritual described in it kinda reminds me of what is happening with the headless knights and soulless demigods. So we can kinda deduce that Deathbird magic is somehow responsible for protecting the walking mausoleums. 3. When we cast any of the ghostflame spells (associated with the deathbirds) we will see the mark of the centipede that is of course the same as: "Cursemark of Death" retrieved from Ranni body. Now it is perhaps just me but the eclipse symbol is very similar to "Mending Rune of the Death-Prince" so perhaps it didn't mean to symbolize the real eclipse but The Age of the Duskborn ?

[@Alex_the_Copper]

I'd like to pose a thought if I may. It was never mentioned when a piece of the rune of death was stolen, only that it was and used to create the black knives. The rune of death was given to malikath by Marika for safe keeping. To my knowledge the only person with the ability explicitly told to break the Elden ring and respective runes was Marika. Could it be possible that when Marika removed her rune of death and gave it to Malikath that she broke a piece off and held onto it, and later on the piece of the rune of death stolen was not from Malikath but from her? Or if she did hold onto a piece of the rune of death, could it be possible she gave it to Ranni instead of having it stolen?

[@raptorxrise5386]

@@Alex_the_Copper Not a bad idea but it does conflict with the game. Why, if it was stolen from marika not him, would maliketh become a paranoid mess afterwards? He literally sealed the balde into his own flesh to safeguard it and says quote: "I will not have it stolen from me again"

[@Alex_the_Copper]

@@raptorxrise5386 The idea I had was once the night of the black knives happened, it would be clear to Marika that the piece of the rune of death that she had kept for herself would be clear was stolen and used to kill her son. If this is so then her shattering the Elden ring would have been an act of grief considering all her manipulation of the Elden ring and its runes did not save her son. As far as Malikath goes he was not aware that Marika kept a piece for herself. When he hears that a piece was stolen and was used to kill Godwyn, the only logical conclusion would be that it was stolen from Malikath. Marika never told anyone she kept a piece for herself and Malikath was never aware he wasn't given the full rune of death. That would make him parinoid enough to seal the rune inside himself and would explain what "Marika's betrayal" to him was. She betrayed his trust in keeping that piece of the rune of death and it led to an event that if left to him would never have happened.

[@Blessed_V0id]

What a smart point. Death is fascinating isnt it?

[@Brody2362]

That sword discription sounds a lot like the DLC image we got.

[@arktisch36]

Haligtree can be seen from Castle Sol, and vice versa. You can see The Lands Between from Farum Azula, and bestial sanctum is obviously a beast grave. Also, Farum Azula seems to be surrounded by some magical barrier, although it may be just the game mechanical "dungeon barrier".

[@Shmethan]

you can also see faram azula from the isolated divine tower! and maybe elsewhere in the lands between. I've always wondered if faram azula is supposed to be locked in place in-lore, or if it's supposed to be a place that moves around with its storm

[@arktisch36]

@@Shmethan where exactly is that tower? Never been there. Is it where you need to go to activate Malenia's great rune?

[@talktomegoose1420]

@@arktisch36 Yup coz

[@razz5614]

you can also see the haligtree very clearly from the shaded castle, the map doesn't make any sense with the view however.

[@magyar645]

Great video, i always found the Helphen steeple sword to have one of the most intriguing lore tidbits, I also noticed how in each divine tower you can see strands of black fog when going up the elevator. A theory i would like to see explored is the importance of the Five fingers for the Beatsmens and why does it looks like the 3 fingers and the 2 fingers were maybe part of the same hand ages ago. I think the fracture of The One Great was maybe caused by the Nox cutting the old Fingers, separating the maddened 3 and the orderly 2 , as why we find multiple pairs of fingers and only one 3 fingers locked up , i think they may have kept the only one they couldnt destroy and hid it deep underground. *adjust gold foil hat*

[@bandiriatraveler8343]

I love the Angel's Egg music. Fits so well.

[@CrunchyVideos]

Oh I'm glad you recognized it! I adore that soundtrack.

[@Travar1410]

It's weird that the round table hold burns exactly like the tree though. I felt while playing the game then, that our round table hold was inside the tree somehow. The wood looks really really similar anyways, imo.

[@dumbsterdives]

My interpretation is that since the Roundtable was created by the Two Fingers/Greater Will, when the main seat of its power in the world burned it burned away the hold as well. Though it could also be that it happened because since the way to the Erdtree was opened the hold was no longer needed

[@craigrainbow7674]

imma take a stab at it. the roundtable exists in two places. the meta physical one were all familiar with and the actual physical one in Lyndell. Both locations are associated strongly with the grace of the two fingers which are emissaries of an outer god. We see another location that matches this description in the Hunters Workshop in Bloodborne. We know that the moon spirit wanted to use the player as a agent to kill other outer gods. when the player became too powerful to controll the workshop burns and we get a confrontation ending with the moon spirit's death. When drawing these comparisons we have to remember that the greater will exerts a greater control over the lands between than the moon spirit ever wanted. When we burn the erdtree we are confronted by Marika the agent and then by the erd beast. When we confront the erd beast he stands fully erect and broadcasts a light from him like a beacon. What the bloadcast was or who it was sent to I'm hoping for answers in upcoming dlc.

[@Bigbadtyrant1]

Simple, the Roundtable we go to is inside the erdtree, the Tarnished are supposed to serve Marika and the Greater Will afterall.

[@benglaser1345]

What if the roundtable hold is itself a remembrance, similar to those we gather from bosses? Hewn into the erdtree itself, and held together by the Tarnished as they fight, die, and seek the Elden Ring? That would fit my thought for it burning because it's within the Erdtree.

[@jakevuckturd1201]

@@benglaser1345 I like this explanation the most

[@Rain..._]

Yo, so glad you decided to make videos

[@vagrant2863]

One interesting thing about those who live in death is their connection to water. Tibia Mariners are on boats, Godwyn is a fish monster, and a lot of things related to Ancestor spirits look like water (though this is among the weaker connections). Considering the general connections to fire in ghost flame, the black flame, and the rune of destined death, perhaps this is significant in some way as water magic does exist in the universe through the bubble sorceries. Perhaps it speaks to a division between spirits and those who live in death.

[@Pikachu-qr4yb]

Godwyn having an aquatic corpse is one of the biggest mysteries to me

[@varen8703]

Great observation, I haven’t seen anyone else saying this but it makes a ton of sense.

[@elwaza2431]

there's also the death frogs, but maybe Those who lives in death are affected by it because of the zone being watery at the roots, the source of death blight

[@Krikenemp18]

Another clear allusion to real-world mythology in the river Styx, represented underground with the eternal cities and tying into the game's theme of fighting stagnation. Notice how Those Who Live In Death always seem to be found near standing water on the surface world, usually lakes with no inlet or outlet for the water to move.

[@Brendonherring522]

I watched this when you first posted it and to date, this is still one of my favorite lore videos of all time! Looking forward to the DLC rehashing!!

[@Assassinultra]

Interesting thing about the blood star's identity, I am of the opinion that it's just another facet of the formless mother since briar sorceries work by wounding yourself to gain power, and wounds tend to be one of the larger themes with all the formless mother stuff especially with how all the blood incantations work by wounding the formless mother herself

[@epiccthulu]

Dude! I have been doing my best to spread this theory! Glad I have a fellow tarnished in the field! Btw, take a look at Alberich’s altered helm. Its entirely red glintstone, like azure and lusat!

[@dumbsterdives]

The only thing that makes me see a distinction is that the formless mother craves wounds for herself, and no incantations tied to her harm the user, whereas the the thorn sorceries are powered by the users blood by converting the blood into glintstone (see: staff of the guilty description). i definitely think theres a relation but theres not enough info to say

[@epiccthulu]

@@dumbsterdives the dialogue from our favorite graven witch mentor, Sellen, claims that glintstone sorcery is a study of the stars since we are tapping into their residual life-essence, trapt within glintstone. Red glintstone is made, according to the staff Of the guilty, by creating a wound with glintstone. So…that is the connection between thorn sorcery and the formless mother. Blood incanations are you wounding her, thorn sorcery is wounding yourself to create an echo of that bond. Another interesting note is that seeing a primeval current results with a change within the caster that lets them affect the world…like Mogh seeing the mother and having his blood ignite

[@declicitous1763]

I bet the blood star is like the Erdtree but for the Formless Mother

[@RollerOfEyes]

the blood star is probably some unique meteoric outer god that can only be seen by those who trap their DNA inside of glintstone, fusing themselves with glinstone and whatever lifeforce was already present within.

[@Brendonherring522]

Among the most interesting and unique videos on elden ring lore I've seen thus far. Also exceedingly high quality. Phenomenal job, and really enjoyed your podcast with ratatoskr. Keep on doing it!!

[@ThriceAsLong]

Very interesting video, had similar thoughts myself. The implications of a spirit world is quite huge. The evergoals always bothered me, absolutely feels like a place just out of phase with reality, good place to seal away someone, I suppose. Love the music choices, especially L's theme!

[@CrunchyVideos]

Thanks! Yeah there’s definitely more on the evergaols I didn’t cover, especially the different colored spirits and why Vyke appears normal. Haha I’m glad someone noticed the music, thought it was fitting for ‘detective work’.

[@ihaveouid3518]

I keep coming back to this video because the idea of the Helphen and the Lampwood are very intriguing to me (and I’m willing to bet they’ll have a larger presence in the DLC). Something I wanted to point out was the rune that may be on the dark moon. This reminded me of the Eldritch Moon set that came out for Magic: the Gathering a few years back. I encourage anyone to look up the card “Imprisoned in the Moon” as it features a moon very similar to the Full Moon in Elden Ring with a large glowing rune carved in it. Though the rune from the card and the supposed rune on the Dark Moon do not match, we do know that Miyazaki has used Magic cards as inspiration before. If there is a rune on the dark moon, could it be possible it is containing some kind of eldritch horror similar to Emrakul from MTG?

[@LiamLovesMetal]

You’re likely right

[@Krikenemp18]

Ranni's dark moon is talked about like another outer god, so that would make sense.

[@redglintstonescholar7605]

I think the Blood star is a envoy of the formless mother. Though I think we have yet to see it and may never due to the formless nature. The Elden Beast and even Astel are star entities.

[@es-rh8oo]

Hmm Briars of sin is one of the Blood sorceries, and it requires pure faith to use. The blood oath incants like Bloodflame blade require a mix of faith and arcane to use Actually, is it possible that that need for arcane for the Blood oath incants is due to Mohg's influence?

[@lunasllenas1997]

@@es-rh8oo The formless mother seems to aid those that are helpless or overall lost and shunned. It wouldn't surprise me that in its pure form it just requires faith, since it literally appears when they are most desperate. But Mogh is not just trying to be desperate he is becoming strong and is trying to formalize its cult to the formless mother, if I am not confusing it most erdtree incantations are pure faith too but those that come from fundamentalists (those that try to formalize the cult to the erdtree/golden order) also require int.

[@Kashmnyjr]

Shadow of the erdtree could be referring to the Helphen Lampwood, mentioned in the helphen steeple, which talks it being in the “spirit world” and/or guides to the spirit world here is the description of the Helphen Steeple, Greatsword patterned after the black steeple of the Helphen, the lampwood which guides the dead of the spirit world. The lamplight is similar to grace in appearance, only it is said that it can only be seen by those who met their death in battle.

[@TheSleepingSeer]

Didn't expect music from Angel's Egg. I love that movie.

[@jacksonsavage6689]

The eclipse star mentioned on the shield may well be a representation of the deathbird outer god, since we know the outer gods are associated with/represented by stars (elden star, blood star maybe for FM). This OG being the protector of the soulless demigods may make sense as well, since they appear shunned by Marika and the greater will as a whole. At one of the churches of marika, melina will quote marika as telling the demigods that if they amount to nothing they will be forsaken. This could be an explanation for the existence of the mausoleum demigods, and that they take refuge in death with the deathbird outer god since the GW doesn’t allow them to be reabsorbed into the erdtree

[@joeprado3614]

I’ve seen a lot of content tracing Berserks impact on FromSoft, and I always appreciate it as a Berserk fan, but I’ve never seen a parallel this insightful. The comparison is obvious on the surface, but you ran with it to a very significant yet logical place. Great video.

[@madeofmandrake1748]

Fun fact; the ruins in Deeproot basin once was the third eternal city that Astel destroyed. I can't remember how I came to that conclusion due to the hundreds of voice lines and item descriptions, but I'm fairly certain that this is true.

[@chichocooks]

The grace there is called the nameless eternal city and the ruins was what made me reach that conclusion as well.

[@madeofmandrake1748]

@@chichocooks Oh yeah. Now I feel dumb for not remembering something that obvious. Thank you for citing the source that my brain couldn't.

[@LastProtagonist]

Nice video! Really impressive for a first foray into Elden Ring lore. I enjoyed it

[@FodMemories]

There’s another tree lamp in weeping peninsula that takes you to the earth bore cave that has the bear boss

[@Longcatcloud]

Omg you made a video on the thing we were discussing in comments! It's like 30 minutes long! So excited! Yay candletree mention! Really great video! Great flow between ideas! Oh and regarding somber stones being drained of color, if we look at some of the higher level ones, and gravel stone, they imply that ancient dragons once had gold tinged gravel stone scales. I believe that once the age of dragons ended, the gold was repurposed to the erdtrees and all their golden ecosystem stuff. Ancient dragons, including placidusax, still have bits of gold remaining if you look closely. (dead ones no longer have it). I think wormfaces have something to do with returning gold to the ecosystem, seeing as they drop gold tinged excrement, are worms, and the fact that they don golden cloaks in farum azula suggesting a connection to the dragon cult. I speculate they may help remove the gold from ancient dragons by using their death blight stuff. Like those parasite eating fish called lumpsuckers perhaps.

[@CrunchyVideos]

Fascinating idea about the wormfaces, I’ve been struggling a bit with them and the death blight. I’ll be thinking about what you said. Glad you enjoyed the video!

[@tonyawwwno3364]

This was a fascinating video. There are so many items in the game I didn't know existed, that give even more strands of story that I didn't know of.

[@gyanvarshnay8053]

Hi, regarding your question about the statue in the Round Tabke Hold, Tarnished Archaeologist has a video explaining the significance of them. It's Godfrey and the Truth of the Crucible

[@Jasmine__135]

I've never seen anyone talk about this, everything related to TWLID (Those Who Live In Death) is so interesting. Perhaps the Mariners are like Charron, ferrying and leading the dead to a death outside of the Erdtree. Maybe this is like a kind of "Afterlife" or an alternative state of death given to certain individuals based on their deaths, kind of like a Valhalla of sorts given that it specifies "Those who died in battle". Or just maybe... the existence of TWLID is an act of rebellion against the Erdtree, The Golden Order and the Erdtree did fundamentally change death in The Lands Between, maybe its a way of showing the Greater Will that things were already in order before it arrived and now it tampers with the original and natural way of life that it replaced. i dunno man, it gets me thinkin'

[@Krikenemp18]

The Charron reference is definitely intended, as we also get the river Styx connection with the underground river near the eternal cities, which is tied into the game's theme of fighting stagnation. TWLID are a result of Marika sealing true death, inducing stagnation to preserve her order. Okina's and the Land of Reeds' lore also reference stagnation as opposed to the purification brought by the underground river. Moving water washes away blood and the madness surrounding it. Moving water washes away blight and it's corruption. Interesting that TWLID have the guidance of the Tibia Mariners, yet seem to be led nowhere, as they are always found in disconnected lakes of still, standing water.

[@TheBlaringBlue]

This man made a 27 minute video about one item description. Peak souls lmao - but I absolutely love it. I was glancing through this item description the other day and I really think it's RIPE for DLC possibilities, since I've theorized for a while now that we'll get some sort of death-focused DLC that centers around Deathbirds, the GEQ, Apostles, Nobles, possibly Ravenmount, Ghostflame etc etc. Really cool that you caught something I've wondered about too - the inhabitants of Evergaols... some of them have a blue aura, others do not. Vyke in Mountaintops stands out to me as someone who does not, while many others especially in the early game do. What gives? lol More thoughts - I knew there wer plenty of Berserk references in this game, but my word I had no idea about some of those. Are we sure we're not just playing Berserk: The Video Game? More more thoughts - really glad someone noticed the red grace like lights in the Forbidden Lands. That can't possibly be a mistake but what the hell is it?

[@CrunchyVideos]

We are definitely playing Berserk the video game. Re: evergaols, I’m making a bunch of appendices of things like that, so I might be able to piece something together soon.

[@spookytown7963]

The red grace beams might be a sort of sign from the Erdtree to not progress forward, seeing as the Land of the Giants is off-limits, so it being red is essentially a warning to leave.

[@SirSaladAss]

Berserk: The Videogame is just the Souls series played back to back

[@syedasadali8529]

the dlc has been announced and i do believe that the Tree in the distance is the helphen or godwyn’s death root

[@Blessed_V0id]

​@@spookytown7963 Or it could be connected to the rune of death and the red light refrenced in Helpens steeple. It could be guiding spirits who arnt vengeful, clinging onto life. It could be guiding those who dont live in death, afflicted with Godwyn the Goldens death blight (Get it. Black and Gold). I saw a video on the topic of how important colour is in Elden ring. You should give it a watch if you havent. I can look through my watched videos to find it if you want?

[@zuurek6907]

I'm not entirely certain if this information is useful, but the tibia mariners used to be called "bone-beckoner mariners" in earlier versions of the game

[@RespectThePep]

In regards to your comparison of Mohg to the dragons: omens, misbegotten, and dragons are all directly related to the Crucible, the primordial tree that existed before the dawn of the Erdtree. All life is said to have blended together during the age of the crucible, and omens are said to be born with features similar to the primordial age (where dragons were worshipped) so there’s definitely solid correlation. As far as I know though, the Great Tree of the Crucible isn’t related to the Helphen. However, in the comments I’ve seen under here, there might be a relation between the Helphen and Rosus, I’d love to see that more fleshed out

[@killerbee1974]

new elden ring screen shot for the shadow of the erdtree dlc may show the Helphen

[@Taveren]

I was thinking the same thing

[@Audiophillie]

So, a (not-so-quick) thought-dump since you brought up some very interesting points... The red lights in the forbidden lands make sense to me as the most likely candidate for the lamplight that the Helphen's Steeple mentions. The fact that it's sort of formless and doesn't seem to lead anywhere actually makes that case even stronger, as that grace is only meant to be seen by people who have "died in battle" and is trying to "guide the dead of the spirit world". Whether or not the player character is dead or if the Lands Between is some sort of purgatory, I don't think is super important to this point. Our character can't make sense of it like we can with Golden Grace because we're not in the spirit world- that 'grace replacement', or Red Grace isn't meant for us. Thinking back to your conversation with Ratatoskr, that actually connects some things with Marika and why she wanted us to leave the Lands Between to die in the first place. Maybe if we hadn't died elsewhere, we wouldn't have seen the Golden Grace we know; we would instead be part of the spirit world at that point, and be subject to the Red Grace while it steers us in the wrong direction. The fact that there's so many spirit animals that just wander around in these areas **has** to be meaningful to that end. It's too strange of a coincidence for ghostly animals to be all over the Forbidden Lands for it to **not** be closely related to the spirit world. This could also link into why Marika broke the cycle of death in the first place- she needed us to die outside the Lands Between, so that by the time we came back, the cycle of death would be broken and we would have no choice but to follow the Golden Grace to the very end. Maybe if we died in the Lands Between, this would be an entirely different game, and the grace we'd be following would be red instead. As for why we need the Golden Grace in the first place... We know it's to lead us to becoming the Elden Lord. Maybe she's manipulating the Greater Will in this regard? As in, she's playing the long game by letting the Greater Will guide us to becoming Elden Lord, hoping that we'll supplant her and replace the Order with something else, something new and not as broken? I may be misunderstanding something here and this is mostly speculation, but from the lore hunting I've done, that's what I've gathered so far. I hope those thoughts I spilled made even the barest amount of sense. Anyways, this was a great video! Can't wait to see more from you if you decide to put out more lore content.

[@CrunchyVideos]

I like the idea about leaving the lands... I guess I just wonder why we can only see the red grace in this one place? or why we can see it all?

[@ladyabaxa]

@@CrunchyVideos All Tarnished are dead brought back to life by grace so perhaps they're in a state of limbo, not truly living but also not dead, and there might be places where that alters their perception/interaction with the world. As for why it is only there, well a tundra landscape is pretty hostile to life. Only the dead can dwell there in any abundance.

[@bohemonddhauteville9001]

In terms of Mogh's face resembling that of the ancient dragons, I think it ties into an overarching connection between the Golden Lineage and the Crucible. We have Crucible Knights serving Godfrey amass. We have Godfrey managing to bond with Serosh in a manner akin to what would be expected from an Empyrean but different. Both Mogh and Morgott, his children, were victims of the Omen Cure which we can infer from various descriptions to be intertwined with the primodial crucible. We have Godwyn and Fortisssax having quite a strange bond and connection, with Fortissax somehow being able to enter Godfrey's husk by converting himself into an astral entity of sorts. We have Godrick instantly being able to graft a Dragon's head onto his arm, with little to no preparation, only to immediately be able to master it.

[@CrunchyVideos]

This is where my thoughts are as well. There’s also the fact that Lansseax could take human form, implying that dragons and humans could mate. Also, Godrick calls the dragon “kin” and “trueborn heir”.

[@bohemonddhauteville9001]

​@@CrunchyVideos That's a good catch. I never thought to take Godrick's claims of kinship to be somewhat literal. Godwyn's unique and mutated corpse, which appears to be an amalgamation of various lifeforms - notably seafaring creatures, also coincidentally mirrors the crucible being associated with the fusion of life, human and inhuman, in its totality. The manner by which Basilisks, among other lifeforms, have been influenced by Godwyn's traits, in turn, is also quite the coincidence. While Godwyn's appearance, upon reflection, is certainly immensely intriguing perhaps it's also worth speculating that Nepheli's experience with the Stormhawk King's ashes is also the result of some primordial power in her blood rather than simplistic lineage.

[@Ziostorm]

Awesome concept for a video and thorough coverage. Great video! This is a super interesting topic. The liturgical town has to be the most mysterious place for me as it just feels so out of place

[@CrunchyVideos]

Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it! Yeah agreed, it’s very mysterious. I didn’t mention in the video but it also seems significant that you have to light candles inside the evergaol to unlock the waygate. Another instance of guiding light

[@gywnsfirstborn5002]

When you started talking about the Great tree being the Helphen, I immediately thought about how the Erdtree controls life and death and rebirth, not leading to complete death (reminding me itself of a Bleach like dichotomy between purification and obliteration of “hollows”) Similarly the rune of death is like a centipede, the half centipede mark of death on Ranni’s eye and the golden centipedes found around lesser Erd trees and underground. There are so many connections that can be made

[@HeatherMason2003]

Fun fact: Marika crucified on the Erdtree and pierced by a spear is also from Norse mythology. Odin hung from Yggdrisil for 9 days and 9 nights pierced by his own spear gungnir.

[@lephonometrographe]

Wow great video ! I had no idea the Helphen had this much implications. Also, a theory about the evergaols being some kind of separate dimensional spaces I have is that the purple rift from which the enemies trapped there comes out of may be somewhat related to the rift shield the prisoner class start with. The description reads : Small metal roundshiled depicting a sinister rift. An antiquated charm that glares back at an enemy, it boosts focus. My possible explanations for this theory is that from it's appearance it ressemble loosely the shape of the purple rift itself and there also seems to be (to my knowledge) no other mentions to any kind of rifts whatsoever in the game. Something interesting to note here is that it's also the prisoner class that starts with this shield, so maybe it could indicate another link of some sort to the everjails. And while I definitely think there are theories to be made as to what the rift actually represents, I cannot declare anything as certain for now. I hope my explanation is not too messy and I hope for you the best !

[@ongabonga4378]

First thing I thought of when I got this weapon was morne's hammer from ds3. I'm pretty sure morne's hammer was made to look like gargoyles on a castle or cathedral of some sort. Similarly, since the sword is named the Helphen's steeple, I believe it's modelled after the steeple of some sort of church or cathedral named the Helphen. The red gem at the tip of the sword may be some sort of beacon on the steeple of the church, and the steeple is named a lampwood in the description because of how the souls of the dead are drawn to the red lamp glow coming off of the sword. Along with that, the spiked branch-like structures coming off of the building make it resemble a tree. I also thought the line at the end of the description is quite interesting. The one that says the light is similar to grace, but can only be seen by those who met their death in battle. I'm not entirely sure about this, but I think the skeleton warrior enemies we find throughout the game are those who live in death. And similarly to godwyn, their souls are removed, but their bodies still left in the overworld. I think this might have something to do with the deathbirds who burn bodies in ghostflame, and the Helphen which guides spirits to the afterlife. Maybe they are both required to make sure both body and soul are safely transported to the spirit world. Hopefully anyone who actually sees this comment finds my interpretation useful.

[@CrunchyVideos]

I don’t think it’s a church, although the Morion Blade is another close connection; the kanji in Japanese calls it a lantern tree. I like the idea of the Deathbirds having a kind of protective role, it fits with all the ritualistic stuff.

[@RashFever26]

So nice to finally see a lore youtuber who doesn't make shit up and actually provides the logic behind his theories and intepretations. Good job, keep it up. I also appreciate the Berserk music in the background 👍🏻

[@ethanbourgeois1352]

I LOVE how much you mention berserk. I see it everywhere in elden ring. But I makes me want a new berserk game even more

[@kurtgrgelwrx8376]

ok the ridiculous similarity between the World Tree from Berserk and the Erdtree honestly shocked me the images might as well be interchangeable if you took out the colour from Elden Ring

[@Fate025]

@ 18:35 I suppose Godwyn is the soulless demigod, as he was mentioned often in Fia's questline. Godwyn is Marika's child, and his soul was slain by the blackknives imbued with the power of the rune of Death. And from many instances within the game, we learn that the Golden Order opposes "Those Who Live in Death", or what we commonly known as the Undead. Since Godwyn was one the favored demigods of the Golden Order, after his soul died he became the demigod of the Undead, hence "unwanted" by Marika.

[@malleableconcrete]

Yeah I was thinking the same, isn't Godwyn currently the god of those who live in death, as a result of his soul being slain?

[@GoonCaved]

On the night of the black knives I’m pretty sure a lot of demigods were slain, hence Godwyns title ‘First Demigod to Die’ or something along those lines in the intro cinematic. I can’t remember exactly where it’s stated that lots of demigods were slain but it may have been the introduction cinematic or some item description. Another thing that adds to this is that the walking mausoleums each house a soulless demigod, and since it’s implied that Marika orchestrated the night of the black knives, presumably said demigods were unwanted. Hence that line from the spirit.

[@malleableconcrete]

@@GoonCaved I don't think there's any great evidence for many other Demigods, we can only assume that the line that descended from Godfrey are the ones that are not accounted for in-game but all the lore we see on the night of the black knives only mentions Godwyn's soul and Ranni's body getting killed, so I choose to believe that was the extent of the damage. I'll also say I'm personally skeptical of the idea that Marika was behind it all because I don't think it makes much sense for her to murder the one of her offspring she seems to have considered to be an unfettered success from her point of view, like in comparison Morgott, Mohg, Melania and Miquella all had imperfections that compromised them in the eyes of herself and the Erdtree. I can see the possibility that maybe she was orchestrating the plot to target someone else but she was either tricked or things spiraled out of anyone's control and Godwyn was killed against her will.

[@CrunchyVideos]

@@GoonCaved Ranni says that line in the story trailer. Also I think there’s another line about the NotBK referring to Marika’s kin being killed but I can’t find it.

[@GoonCaved]

@@malleableconcrete late reply but my belief is that she orchestrated the night of the black lives in order to introduce hardship into the lands between. not only this, but to set into motion the return of the tarnished so that they may slay a god, aka the elden beast (hence the god slain message after defeating it). It’s clear through Hewg that Marika wants a god to die, it’s not clear specifically which one but it can be implied that it’s Marika / the elden beast (or even the greater will itself), since Marikas voice lines in the church say that she is going to search the depths of the golden order, calling Radagon a ‘leel hound’ to the golden order and such. She clearly has a distaste for the outer god which she was chosen to serve and thus seems to want to remove their influence. Since you mentioned that it makes more sense that if Marika was behind the NotBK, then it makes more sense for the imperfect children to die. Perhaps this is the very reason these ones weren’t killed, since they were imperfect from the perspective of the golden order. Not much to go off but something to think about.

[@colt4505]

Wonderful! You're going to be a fast rising star and you deserve it, my good man. I'd love to hear about your thoughts on associations and connections between beasts and dragons. I've also been spending a lot of time at the Divine Towers lately, and there are white and black dripping fog-ooze there at the bottom ... strange description, but I promise its accurate. I've been speculating on it and I have a few correlations I'm working out which connects to the 8 meteorites we find at them positioned around the perimeter. Any speculation you have on the Divine Towers and what might be in the center of them in the ocean obscured by that cloud or fog on the map?

[@CrunchyVideos]

Fascinating observation about the bases of the towers, I’ll have to check that out. My only real theory about the towers is that they appear to be a perfect hexagon around what is presumably the impact crater of the star/golden meteor that the Elden Beast arrived with. Inside the towers you can see gold meteoric ore inset into the walls, the same as you find under Fallingstar Beasts and by Alabaster/Onyx Lords. Btw, if you want to know what inspired them, take a look at the second image in the Ripley Scroll. Also, Eredin observed in his lore-through that they might be carved out of petrified trees, which is an idea I like because it connects with the Ancestral Lake and final boss arena.

[@DeadAlienGaming]

Calling it, that the spirit realm is the location of the DLC

[@toastman1992]

Just as a head's up, the Haligtee can be seen from Altus, around the windmill village, indicating it is in the physical world.

[@waffel_haus]

This is so well done! I really hope you keep doing these as other ideas come up. Nice job on all the editing too. I had been pretty confused about the odd stasis world at Roundtable Hold and the evergaols, so this was an interesting case for the spirit world referenced by Helphen's Steeple. It's funny that no other items or characters in ER reference Helphen, with it seeming to be a pretty important concept. I'll have to stew on some of these ideas a bit 🤔

[@CrunchyVideos]

Thank you! I definitely think both the Roundtable Hold and the Evergaols have something to do with this idea of spirit and memory being connected, although I still don't have a completely clear idea of how or why. Yes, I thought it's so strange that there's this one item that dumps huge implications and nowhere else is it mentioned-- there are quite a number of items like that in ER, like the Twinbird Kite Shield or Scorpion's Stinger.

[@waffel_haus]

As others have pointed out, the outer gods seem to be representative of different ideologies. I've tried mapping these out, but then come across some references like the last two items you mentioned which hint at other mysterious outer gods with very little contextual information. *cue evil cackling from Miyazaki* If you ever develop a theory on those I'd love to hear about it..

[@ellipsis5345]

You’ve got a real talent for this. This is one of the best lore videos for elden ring that I’ve seen!

[@EzenamiStudio]

There are some zeros missing from your subscriber count! great video!

[@alexandervowles3518]

Farum Azula seems to be frozen in time after its initial destruction. I vaguely remember it being said that it has, and will be, continually in a state of wreckage forever.

[@kaden1991]

There is also blue Grace-like trails of light in Raya Lucaria atop parts of the roof, but they do not seem to point in any particular direction. Raya has magical seals all around it, which could be blocking or obscuring their paths. Add this to the dialog given by Sorceress Sellen talking about "restoring the primeval current", and I have come to believe that the primeval current is actually the blue Grace that is connected to the same power as Astel and the Star Seeds. The red Grace-like aura from the Snowfields looks very similar, I can't imagine this is unintentional.

[@BradCadieux]

Great video man, really enjoyed the topic and your breakdown.

[@FormlessPBnJ]

It was fascinating to hear your thoughts and connections fleshed out. Glad you made the video, hoping for more soon!

[@aydincastro1924]

Elden Ring lore is so insanely complex and is easily my favorite out of all the from soft games. I think I've found a clear answer on something then I find new information and the complexity spirals out and I don't know whats correct anymore. Excellent video my dude definitely one of the most overlooked lore aspects.

[@xoradivided7950]

its not that complex, it only seems that way because its vague and you have to actually use your brain to speculate

[@McGeeMcGeeMcGee-g7w]

So theres the Death Flame, Thats whitish/blueish/blackish. There's Black Flame that the godslayers use, which seems white and black. and then there is the Prince of Death's Gold and Black stuff? its interesting because the Eclipse shotel's weapon art has it bathed is a Gold/Black flame. Add in the Red/Black flame that Maliketh has and we've got ourselves quite the Elden Ring mystery. Its also interesting that the ghost flame sorceries use the half circle rune of death as they sigil. So far i think we can say that the burning of the dead creates the cold flame, while the flame that can kill demigods is the red/black flame and the (possibly) drained white/black flame. it's really interesting that the Death of Godwyn seems to have created something unprecedented.

[@PungentTowelWasTaken]

i absolutely love that you used the angel's egg OST in this video. love your videos! keep up the great work!

[@arcanite_force]

Your channel is so criminally underrated. Been binging your stuff all day

[@psychoctapus8069]

beautiful video, you deserve far more recognition

[@agitated.tachyon]

It would be interesting if the red Grace-like lights of the Forbidden Lands are visible to us because we died in battle prior to our resurrection, but they are no longer ordered and able to guide us because we are no longer dead.

[@christianschmid1440]

Great video :) Hope to see more of you in the future.

[@JustinZode]

Fantastic video Crunchy. Loved you on Ratatoskr’s channel, glad you’re making content. And the death note music was perrrrrfect for the theory section lol

[@obamabiden]

another little side "spirit world" area you can visit is the arenas where you fight the ancestor sprits really great video

[@Wralis]

to the objects impaling the Fire Giants can be linked to that line that Melina tells us quoting Marika speaking to Godfrey "Put the giants to the sword and confine the flame atop the mount." This can have dual meaning of just killing them but this could be a way that of killing the giants but also to drive the Fell God out??? Dunno just a thought Great video!

[@EldenLord.]

I always thought the Lands Between has that name because its between the Eternal Cities and the Sky Temple (Farum Azula).

[@yomaDoma07]

The thing about mohgs face being similar to dragons is cuz he’s an omen so he’ll have features from when everything was one in the crucible

[@CrunchyVideos]

Yeah that’s probably the reason. It’s interesting how the crucible aspects are all traits of dragons specifically, as if they are a kind of blended-together life.

[@STREY34]

Crucible was before everything. But dont forget the first Elden Lord was an actual dragon so I'd say they are more closely related to the same-ish era

[@anonymous___vibes4415]

So about the true color of ghost flame, im pretty sure there is a flower in game called a grave violet that is actually more akin to lavender and its description reads "A purple flower that blooms in graveyards. Material used for crafting items. The hue of ghostflame, it's believed to be useful in calling forth spirits"

[@justink8156]

Damn this is your first video on Elden Ring Lore? I checked your page hoping for more! Super high quality, well paced, well constructed- I know I learned a lot. Also humble about the possibility of being wrong and careful not to make big lore assumptions- these 2 are very important traits for anyone doing lore analysis imo. Really hoping you do more!

[@flyerking01]

Concerning the stone pillar in the lake around the ancestral woods, it's said that the Nox we're banished by the Greater Will and it's followers below the surface for worshipping the night, so maybe the stones are the Nox's version of the Erdtree Arena we fight the Elden Beast in, assuming that arena holds some lore/sacred properties

[@wdexter3887]

Really great stuff man, had no idea about the helphen before this

[@vwts]

I recall from from some Bloodborne lore video that there is something in Buddhism or Japanese mythology about the dead in the underworld needing to pile up rocks to make a tower in order to escape, so a bunch of high towers reaching the sky (Ancestral Lake, Hunter’s Dream, Ash Lake, Elden Beast arena) may be evocative of a spirit world.

[@terrancejohnson9930]

It's so nice to see people in the community make entire analysis of their theories. Amazing video 🙌🏾🙌🏾

[@ThommyofThenn]

Appreciate the Berserk warning. So many channels just assume anyone who's played a fromsoft game must have read/seen all of Berserk. I've only watched some of the original anime, one of the movies and a handful of the manga. I still really like it and fully intend to read it, it's just that there are so many other things on my watch/readlist that I haven't gotten to it yet. I was able to skip the Berserk discussion and continue watching

[@annajulkunen2220]

So refreshing to see a video on this topic for the Elden Ring lore! Especially mentioning the fact that there are multiple Roundhold Tables, this was something I've been wondering why no one has brought up. Super interesting. Great job, keep up the good work :D

[@alanzhong2728]

Very underrated video that deserves more attention...

[@hocambunedirya9193]

There is one more of that candle light thingies at consecrated snowfield

[@fishdish9835]

I recently played the game and noticed that the red eyes also exist in people in Castle Sol. I fought a Banished Knight with red eyes and they demolished me. What I noticed was they were a lot more aggressive. My theory is that the “flame of ambition” could be less of a metaphor and an actual thing. Red flames in particular are associated with death. So… Maybe the two are connected? I don’t know.

[@LeifMaelstrom]

EEEEEEY! Welcome to content creation! I saw you on Ratotoskr's podcast and then KZbin suggested this about 8 days after posting. Happy to see you making stuff. Love your voice. Enjoy your sub brother!

[@kevo300]

when it shows your character in radahns armor at farum I legit though it was dlc but it was just your guy wearing his set

[@Woodlend]

Great stuff brother, very happy to see you're making your own vids now. I think you're an excellent narrator for it. Subbed, and can't wait to see more!

[@mon-6166]

17:55 about this. We know that when Marika came into the picture along with the elden ring and she decided to lock down death, the "black flame" or death flame or whatever you wanna call it lost much of its power, and as we know, changed color. I'm thinking the same happened with the ghost flame and/or with this red hue that people saw as a guide to the afterlife. Those statues that "guide" you (and also lost souls) to catacombs around the land, turn on a sort of lamp when you interact with them, a white/blue-ish flame, and they depict a quite skeletal figure that seems much older than marika's age. I believe that since people are not being directed to the afterlife/spirit world anymore, but instead they return to the Erdtree and are infact fed to its roots, and if we assume this started to be the case because of Marika, we could speculate that the same thing happened to the flame of those statues, that lost its guiding red hue, and has been twisted to guide spirits to the catacombs for a different end.

[@jeftecoutinho]

12:30 Miquella's Haligtree also creates a realm of it's own.

[@IamSupreme333]

amazing video, i look forward to binging your future content, keep it up!

[@msl1461]

i come from the future ----- unwanted child of marika is called messmer the impiler

[@simone6726]

In sellen’s quest she tells us sorcery comes from the life of the stars, which seems to confirm something about the blood star and others we discover in game. Also there are colorless rays at the moonlight altar that look like the golden rays on one of the maps. What if (spoiler) ranni’s order ending is actually further embracing the spirit world, somehow? She gives us our first spirit ashes and is dead/spectral herself. Maybe she is intending for their to only be a spirit world, based on her dialogue and involvement with death previously. Just something to think about.

[@AJLoco-]

when u wake up and see the elden ring dlc announcement u should definetely make a vid on it really think this is where its goin

[@bowley4]

So funny thing just a few hours ago I was playing and had picked up helphen earlier on and then later went to “Giant-conquering hero’s grave,” and thought to myself for a second “well would you look at that… that building kinda reminds me of the helphen… wonder if that has to do with eachother… and happen upon this video tonight!

[@simonmadsen5214]

This makes me think of The Land Between as being like purgatory. A place between life and death. I feel like it explains a lot of concepts like the perpetual circle of life and death, that never seems to end and why death is absent. I don't really have anything else besides the name of the place to go on by now, but it really reminds me of The Brothers Lionheart in some way

[@RashFever26]

I believe so too. A purgatory both physical and spiritual at the same time. In Dante's Divine Comedy, the Purgatory can be reached by souls destined to it, through Satan's frozen lake or even simply with a boat. When Dante meets Ulysses in the Inferno, it is revealed that Ulysses' last journey was past the Pillars of Hercules (Gibraltar) towards the mount of Purgatory, which he managed to almost reach until his boat was swept away by God's wind, punishing Ulysses for his curiosity. Compare it to how the Tarnished can reach the Lands Between by dying, but also by boat like Roderika.

[@chriss4799]

Wait this is your second video?? I clicked on your channel ready to binge all your other content. Excellent video, keep it up!

[@ohshit7461]

Toyour question about the blood star: Alberichs altered set looks similar to Lusat and Azur's condition after glimpsing into the primeval current. My theory is that the Briars are an ancient part of said current, they are heretical yet still red glintstone sorceries. The Star part also still connects them to the cosmos. Why they were used to presumably kill the giants i dont know.

[@loganm5437]

Amazing vid man I can’t wait to hear you talk about the mausoleums

[@WolfearOfficial]

holy shit the dlc will be in the spirit world dude !!!

[@vremen555]

This is exactly the kinda of creative lore speculation we need! Please keep it, I'm hyped for the next vid!!!

[@AOMt.]

Regarding the unwanted children of Marika: I’ve wondered if they might have been loyalists of the Golden Order, or perhaps even thralls to it or the GW, as Radagon seemed to become. What might follow is they were put on a hit list by Marika herself and entrusted to the Black Knives to carry out. The nearly ceaseless movement of the Mausoleums might serve to prevent these Demi-gods from returning in the Erdtree’s recycle of deathless life through roots, and effectively cements them as the unwanted children they now are. Most of my speculation stems from the viewpoint that Marika is ultimately the mastermind behind the fall of the Erdtree, and that perhaps her secret motivation was this all along, or might have otherwise been prompted after a series of discoveries and events (“I declare mine intent to search the depths of the Golden Order”). I also favor the idea that the GW and the Erdtree (at least in its current form) likely have nefarious motives at worst, or are at best the cause of all the misery we see as a result of miscalculations or the law of unintended consequences. Moreover, Ranni omits truth from us on at least one occasion so when she takes full credit for the Plot, I can’t help but wonder if there is more credit to be shared than she lets on. Rogier’s comment when we relay Ranni’s account to him is, “Not everyone would believe such a tale,” which I think could be a hint. With that in mind, I tend to think that Godwyn might have been in on it as a willing sacrifice (Finger Reader nearest to Godwyn refers to him as martyr to Destined Death). We also see it confirmed that Ranni and Rykard were also in league together at some point, so the eventual divide that is alluded to seems to be between those who wanted to upend the status quo, Marika included, and those wanting to maintain /reinforce it (Rahdan, Radagon, etc). In summary, maybe the unwanted children fell in the camp of Golden Order status quo, or might have been more susceptible to the control of the GW somehow, and so were eliminated as causalities of a (cold) war against the GW.

[@WTFPr0m]

This is insightful and well-made and all, but the *actual* reason I clicked the like button was the moment of jolly cooperation at 16:55

[@lynxager]

There is one in the Weeping peninsula area that take you a cave with chest but when you approach it will collapse in a dark hole filled with rats and you have to fight a rune bear as the boss. There is also one in Lurnia Lake that leads you to the cave you need to go through to find the Latenna

[@ZephyrusAsmodeus]

Man, bit pompous to say but it's super cool to notice a little detail in a game and then go and stumble into a video like this about it, just one more thing about these games that keep me coming back, having new understanding each time

[@sams7068]

Edited bc Crunchy pointed out some corrections. Hey, recently I stumbled upon a similar item description that (imo) has huge implications but nobody talks about, though less important then Helphen’s. This is my first time ever trying to draw lore conclusions and I very likely may be way off base, but I wanted to share it with someone who knows what they’re talking about, on other forums people just see the theory and go “wow that’s cool, it works to me” but I know it’s highly unlikely I’m right. The ID is the Sun Realm Shield, dropped from some normal (Edit: those who live in death) skeletons: “*Shield of honor depicting a city crowned by the sun. It has seen better days.* *Much like the wear upon the shield, the Seat of the Sun is long faded away.*” This, to me, implies that an order once existed where the sun played the same role the Erdtree now does. I think the Erdtree’s arrival (possibly coming from a falling star, so in some ways a star itself like the sun, though Ratatoskr thinks the Greater Will’s widespread influence and ER preceded the Erdtree and the defeat of the dragons) made the sun redundant, and thus made the order of the Sun fade away relatively (and just visually because of the vibrancy of the Erdtree). This ties into Castle Sol and Miquella trying to make another Erdtree. Also, the sun possibly “crowned” a city much like the Erdtree crowns Leyndell if the image is representative of something (of course, the sun “crowns” every city in our world, but it’s possible that their sun works differently and I’m drawing this connection between the Erdtree and the sun). Farum Azula maybe? Someplace else? I arrived at the conclusion that the Erdtree replaced the sun bc the sun doesn’t really fit into the metaphysical ideas of the Golden Order at all. Besides the clearly very old shield (edit: actually pretty recently bc after the night of the black knives) carried by the dead, the only other reference to the sun can be found in one of the areas most far removed from the influence of the Greater Will, Castle Sol.

[@CrunchyVideos]

Glad someone else noticed that item. I had very very similar thoughts. Here’s a couple of other things to think about regarding that: Those shields are carried and dropped by skeletons (TWLID) which suggests they were alive relatively recently, as in after Godwyn’s death. Also the Eclipsed Sun is called a star (eclipse greatshield description) so maybe the sun is a star too, like in the actual lore. You can see a sun but it’s very small, also I think after burning the Erdtree it has red godrays when you look at it.

[@CrunchyVideos]

Now that I’m thinking about it, I suppose it’s possible they died earlier and were only revived after Godwyn’s death? Also I’ve been playing with this idea that maybe the crucible was a sun? Very loose thoughts atm

[@CrunchyVideos]

@@sams7068 Ooh thanks for the Consecrated Snowfield candletree, I totally missed that; I think I’ve explored that area the least. Re: the scripture shield, it says the cipher is ancient, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the shield is. Interesting that the cipher forms a single circle, as opposed to the two concentric circles of Two Fingers incantations. Also, where are you getting that Alberich wielded the Cipher Pata? Iirc it’s in another room on a different body, didn’t seem connected to him in my mind.

[@sams7068]

@@CrunchyVideos you’re right, I was just wrong a couple times in that comment. If you can and want to, keep making videos! Your perspective is great bc it’s very broad and theme-oriented, but you still get details right. Right now people are still telling individual story snapshots-cool and needed but the game is about so much more than the average player thinks.

[@g0lddustt29]

I assumed the Tibia Mariners served a purpose like Charon of Greek mythology, ferrymen of the dead. My theory is that they're mostly always found near groups of Those Who Live In Death, as if they came to take them to the Helphen/spirit world, but due to their curse of undeath they never got into the boat so the Mariners are stuck in a limbo waiting for them.

[@Amknownas_743great_explainer]

Godwin is Gwendolyn and that's why he fights so hard against the dark... He doesn't want to be stuck and in such a state ever again, dum dum DUMMMMMMMM!!! Kidding but that'd be wild, the eclipse sign just made me wonder, a bit wildly I'll admit