ELECTRIC SAIL CATAMARAN Ep43

An ALL ELECTRIC SAIL CATAMARAN ! Yes the future is here. Should we trade our #Lagoon46 and GO ELECTRIC? Many questions we have and we wanted to share it with you all. ** Legendas em Portugues agora disponivel* Selecione CC no video e escolha Portugues**
►🙀Check out some of the items we love and use it everyday on JOY. We created a storefront to make it easier for you to shop items you see on our videos.
www.amazon.com/shop/sailingjoy
********************************************************
Have you considered an Electric engine for your boat?
*** Subtitles in Portuguese **** Legendas em PORTUGUES**********
********************************************************
►Patreon Link to join our VIP community and gain access to additional content including:
*Our New Lagoon 46 Price list and Options list:
www.patreon.co...
********************************************************
►Check out all the options we bought from BOAT Manufactor Part 1 & 2
Part1: • NEW LAGOON 46 / Option...
Part2: • NEW LAGOON 46 / Option...
*******************************************************
►Special THANKS to all of our Patreons !!!!! Your contribution keep us going.
www.patreon.co...
*******************************************************
►SUBSCRIBE:
www.youtube.co...
Clicking on the BELL will notify you when new content becomes available.
*******************************************************
►Check out all the options we bought from BOAT Manufactor Part 1 & 2
Part1: • NEW LAGOON 46 / Option...
Part2: • NEW LAGOON 46 / Option...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[@chillfactor6014]

Hi Ed. I agree with you. Probably both the Batteries and electric engines will rapidly improve in the next few years. I would wait a little more before going electric.

[@willemduitemeijer1683]

By the time the change is what you were waiting for, something new is thought of, so maybe should wait. When will the waiting stop. For me better buy the best you can afford now and repeat when the savings allow.

[@Ivansgarage]

OMG electric motors have been running cars for the last ten years, longer than that, I used to wind motors for electric cars... run the engine to charge batteries, just use the engine to run the boat... try getting something like that fixed in Figi or some remote location... love how people get so excited over old tech... watched a few people with electric boats using there dingy to push the boat cause there is not enough range... more batteries, more money.... the price of batteries would pay for a diesel engine, batteries do not last for ever...

[@jamesmarinelli2177]

Electric all the way! Just the boom presents shading. The back of the boat will be the area that should be totally covered with panels, providing very useful shade from sun and rain cover. A large array can be put back there and would have minimal shade from boom.

[@SailingJoy]

Totally agree. The future is just around the corner. Exciting times.

[@rockersidF1]

To have a proper electric sailboat, a boat needs to have 1. Hydro electricity generator - The propellors need to act a electricity generator when you are under the Sails. This will mean you will not have to burn fuel, but will be truly carbon neutral 2. Enough batteries - to last say 10 hours sailing at 6 knots - 300-400 KWH 3. Solar panels to generate electricity - especially while at anchor 2-3 KW 4. Optional small fuel tank and a generator for emergencies We are not too far from getting here tbh.

[@SailingJoy]

We are very excited to see how fast this technology is evolving. I believe this is the future and we will still have an electric cat before long. Best Ed

[@rockersidF1]

@@SailingJoy Yeah, I agree. We aren’t too far away. The real challenges for now are 1. Battery size, cost and efficiency. This will surely go down in the next five years. 400 KWH is like having 4 Tesla car batteries. Which tbh, is not too big on a 46 foot catamaran. But in the next 5 years, we could end up having 500-600 instead of 400. 2. I have so far come across only 1 boat whose propellors become a hydro generator when under sails. You need to be sailing 6 knots + to really start charging the batteries. 10 hours of sailing at 6knots+ should be enough to generate 100-200 KWH of electricity. Assuming that a boat and its gadgets (incl. air con heating) need 30-40KWH a day, there should be enough surplus to store and drive the boat. IIRC Nico Rosberg (of the F1 fame) owns one. With better technology these could and will become standard in boats

[@SailingJoy]

@@rockersidF1 sunreefs are definitely on our radar. We saw Nico’s sunreef and had all that we were looking for. The barrier still the price for those cats. We would prefer a 50 foot Sunreef though with the Eco package and I believe that will make it available in the future. We will visit one in the future. Thanks for such a detailed message I the stats. Very helpful. Best Ed

[@MarchTwentyfour-t8z]

It's not quite that simple. Those engines/propellers are designed for propulsion not as a hydro turbine and therefore are terribly inefficient at generating power. The best you can expect is roughly 10% i.e. 10 hours of Regen for one hour of motoring at best. Then if you plan to put 300-400kw's of batteries you'd be adding 3,000 to 4,000kg of extra weight. On a 50ft cat that's a huge amount of extra weight and it would sail like a dog and therefore kill most if not all of your Regen capacity. We are close, but not there yet. Perhaps another 2-5yrs we will be there 🙂

[@polarfeet4619]

Thanks for the video. It would be nice to know the numbers, e.g., charging from the props, battery kilowatt hours, size of generator?

[@SailingJoy]

Thank you !!!

[@pmacgowan]

It’s an electric motor, not an engine!

[@SailingJoy]

Yea Sir ! Electric motor it is.

[@horitulgi]

Silent Yachts are leading the way, but they are out of most people's price range. They cram lots of solar ( up to 10kw ) & batteries ( up to 300kwh) , no sails but have a kite option which will give about 4 knots. They estimate on a passage, that with no sun, their batteries will run the boat at 4 knots (8 knots total if you have wind) for 18-22 hours. If no recharging sun by that time, yet again the generator is on) They had a trial boat about 2 years ago that used one tank of fuel for the generator and sun/solar to do the Atlantic crossing in Feb. (No kite on this boat and several Feb days with poor sun) About 500euros of fuel!! We need lots more trials like this on reasonable priced boats. The issue with large amounts of solar on catamarans & sails is shading, that's why Silent Yachts are looking at kites, but 4 knots of wind power is not enough and I'm not sure what wind angles it could fly at. By the way the top silent 55 cruises at 6-8 knots but can motor at 20 knots !!!!!!

[@SailingJoy]

Fully agree with your comment ! I will have a look at Silent and learn more about them. Thanks for such a detailed comment and opinion. Really appreciated. Best Ed

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

They tend to use one generator as well as standard to save WT...and costs. The solar panels could be boosted in performance if they were liquid cooled.. HPV panels give more power and last longer and you can harvest a lot of heat on sunny day's. Theres a tour of one of their production kite sail equipped prototypes on the Nautistyles chanel . Another point with SY boats is they are designed and built so they are fully insulated ...good insulation works both ways and reduces you demand for house bank power .

[@topmeoff]

That thing is loud as hell idk what y’all talking about 😆

[@rafaelmoral9009]

It would be nice if it is powered by sail, electric by solar panel and wind turbine

[@SailingJoy]

Totally agree. 🤩

[@Ithaca51]

5-10 years until full electric, maybe longer imo

[@SailingJoy]

I agree with you. I have seeing some very good improvements lately in sunreefs but very expensive.

[@tomsummers1137]

Props don’t regenerate under sail?. We have an electric cat here in Coronado, California. No ICE generators, but batteries recharge under sail. When we struck sails upon re-entry to harbor batts we’re fully charged. OceanVolt electric sail drives, Sailing cat Ramblin’ Rose.

[@SailingJoy]

Hi Tom! That’s awesome. How big is Ramblin Rose? Are you happy with the elétrico version? We are exploring options and we believe this will be a route we want to go in the future. We are still learning about it and researching. Best Ed

[@harriperkio5773]

Battery chemistry - I would avoid the Lithium batteries which can get fire, there are plenty of more safety LFP batteries with '2 milj mile' lifetime....

[@SailingJoy]

Thank you

[@Jerbear112266]

For that kind of money I’d rather buy a used 60 ft gun boat or a Outremere And re-outfit those with electric motors and proper solar array😘

[@SailingJoy]

How about a Sunreef ? What are your thoughts ?

[@Jerbear112266]

@@SailingJoy Yes I like the sun reef but it’s more of a cruiser charter boat than it is a sailing boat… i’d like to see hydrofoils where the dagger boards 😊

[@calledout4437]

Hmm I don’t know. That electric sounds pretty annoying actually. I was under the impression that with electric you couldn’t hear them at all.

[@SailingJoy]

Actually you can hear them a lot I Tought. A little annoying indeed.

[@45bossdog]

Silent yachts

[@SailingJoy]

😀😀😀

[@maximusmeridius3253]

whats the use being clean energy if still using 2 large diesel generators..... i go with silent yacht if i really go clean and not using generators as much as possible

[@SailingJoy]

That’s so true.

[@Doitgood52]

The best part of sailing is the sound of the ocean.. sadly drowned out by the stupid music!😤

[@SailingJoy]

It is So good to hear the ocean while sailing! We love it, but we do like the music as well and don’t think it is stupid at all. Best Ed

[@pauljamieson803]

Lagoon is in trouble with their hull structure and I'm sure looking at lots of law suits over the next few months\years!! At the moment I would wait before purchasing a Lagoon boat pending any financial troubles the company will have over these issues. (Just saying..) I totally agree with you that the lack of solar and the need for generators completely flies in the face of having a Green boat!! Also the helm stations are unprotected, so besides using this boat as a day or weekend cruiser it's not what I would pick as a blue ocean sailboat unless you like sailing in questionable weather in the open!!

[@SailingJoy]

Without a doubt many pros and cons !!! All the best Ed

[@steveyoung8376]

solar and wind generator and props that turn into generators when sailing good charge the battery. Marinas will start to have chargers installed- like a fuel jetty and charging jetty

[@SailingJoy]

Absolutely. Things will change.

[@zilogfan]

The music louder than the commentary was super annoying. It is just not needed.

[@SailingJoy]

Got it. Watch the newer video. Problem solved.

[@toffa66]

I still feel that the electric opsion is to early. Personaly i think solar pannels have come very far, but for a electic option like this they are not good enough yet. On some cats installing solar pannels is just a issue. You also have to take into consideration that the electric engines consume power, but so does keeping the rest of the boat functioning. I can also imagine the weight these batteries have making the boat very heavy. In the end you also have to compare the weight of fule and diesel engines to the weight of the electical option. Even if some chose this option i bet they also include the diesel generator + fuel. This would add weight. It would probably reduce fuel cost but that is about it.

[@SailingJoy]

You are spot on ! I checked out the weight of the batteries and they are indeed extremely heavy. Also there is a need for 2 generators and after further research it looks like it does take longer than 2 hours to fully replenish batteries. So far it is not a route we will take yet but I am crossing my fingers to see a rapid development in energy efficient engines and power sources. Best Ed

[@toffa66]

@@SailingJoy : I think the set up you have chosen for Joy is very very good. To me it seams like you have put some time into setting up youre Lagoon. I have been watching those video's a few times over... Being a brand new cat you have not had that many issues. You are already sailing on youre own. I just have one question: Are you happy with the winches that you have or would you like to have one or two more....? Are you happy with the speed they have..? Or would you like winches with more speed..?

[@SailingJoy]

We are indeed very happy with JOY ! Issues are very minimal and we are handling them all with the support of Lagoon but honestly nothing out of the ordinary for a new boat. The winches are just fine I did not felt there was a need for extra ones as we got the extra one that comes with the pulpit option from Lagoon. The speed is also good, they can be a bit on the loud side but not an issue. Now one winch I would want to be more powerful is our windless winch, it is a bit in the slow side for our upgraded 40 kilos Rocna anchor, maybe just the right size for the original 25kilos delta anchor but I prefer to sleep at night if you know what I mean. Best Ed

[@douglasmontgomery6315]

Ed, a few things that I was shocked you did not cover more in-depth: You mentioned the degree of sail, wind speed and SOG, but failed to really talk about the power consumption underway and more importantly the regen amount that happened while sailing. As for pure electric sail catamaran, I think the Antares/HH platform is the best right now. A diesel engine with electric drive (Parallel Hybrid system) is the best of two worlds. The diesel engine when needed (when on, the clutch engaged and turns electric motor into a generator), then when docking or need silent operation, the clutch is disengaged and you have pure electric drive. Agree with you that it was astonishing that Excess would promote an electric drive vessel with no solar. Lastly, to kill three birds with one stone, I would get rig of saildrives and match that Parallel Hybrid system with V-Drive and go shafts !

[@SailingJoy]

Douglas I hope all Is well. It was very hard to gather that info under way as I had some co flooring info so decided to leave it out and shared as much info as I had that I knew was accurate. Totally agree with your comments and I am very hopeful that before long we have a Cat that will provide us with all the green alternatives at a reasonable price. Best Ed

[@FtLMale1]

At this point of development in energy generation and storage, I feel that lithium batteries, coupled with sufficient solar will replace the generator, but not the diesel drive engines. If you sail in warmer climates, have a boat that sails well in light winds and want to stay on the hook, you can still enjoy the luxury or air conditioning, fridge, freezer and perhaps even a washing machine... but you'll still need propane for the stove and the occasional diesel saildrives. Or give up on the AC and cook electric. And you'll still want the gas kicker on the inflatable. But time will bring further improvements as long as there is the investment in these startup projects.

[@SailingJoy]

Michael that’s exactly what I am seeing with some of my friends boats ! Lithium battery banks large enough to run AC and electric stove / oven plus a good amount of solar panels. We will probably go that way in the next 12 months on JOY! So far we are still dependent here on the genset. Best Ed

[@jimlofts5433]

run a diesel direct to prop with some loss but run electric the diesel gen makes a loss then the electric drive makes a loss etc etc and even more if you charge the battery to run the drive - look at Delos sometimes they are motor sailing for 48 hours and did I hear 6 hours

[@SailingJoy]

Hi Jim ! Yes that’s reality. Many times we do run the engines for 2 days on large crossings. For us electric still not there. We will wait a few years. Best Ed.

[@waltervanderboor]

Wow that’s as much noise as our diesel, pretty bad this.

[@SailingJoy]

I agree !

[@rickl124]

For being electric it sure sounds noisy. I've had Teslas drive by me and I don't remember hearing noise. Why is that?

[@SailingJoy]

You know I felt the same thing. I expected to be a little quieter. I caught that after watching the footage. Best Ed

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

Probably the props most are pretty awful and drive joints generating vibration or if it used a reduction gear that can generate noise.. The simple answer is it needs better anti vibration mounts and Sound proofing. Water cooling the motor also helps keep noise down. Normally you wouldnt hear that because it would be drowned out by the Diesel engine... 😁 It sounds like its resonating through the hull glass and cabin sole. BTW its better to use a motor that doesnt need a reduction drive unless it gives you a massive efficiency weight advantage.. by converting high revs into greater Torque.

[@henrysalomon6672]

In my opinion, we are still not there with electric. Keep your L46 ;-)

[@SailingJoy]

I am with you on that !!!

[@pyawallah7080]

its early days in the development of the electric drive, still a long way to go before the batteries and solar panels are good enough , its interesting to see the progress though

[@SailingJoy]

Definitely! We will probably see all develop so rapidly in the next few year. It will be good. Best Ed

[@j121212100]

that sound would drive me crazy.

[@SailingJoy]

I prefer to use the sails.

[@markadam1069]

why are there no windmill's charging the batteries ?

[@SailingJoy]

Good question! I asked the same about charging options. Answer was because they boat still a prototype and that will be added In the future. Hydro and wind generators.

[@hakubaholiday9006]

Thank you. How much energy did the motors generate under sail?

[@SailingJoy]

Do T have the exact numbers but not enough to recharge itself so there is a need to run the generators.

[@matthewmeuleman9872]

the sunreaf eco are a true eletric sail catamaran

[@SailingJoy]

Yes they are awesome but very expensive unfortunately

[@HHJung1976]

200.000,- is waaaaaay to much 🤦‍♂️

[@SailingJoy]

I have to agree with you.

[@alcibiadesmarcialneto922]

Já rem catamarãs 100% elétrico. Silent Boats. O defeito é que não tem velas. Há uma fabrica nova a Windelo que também está no páreo.

[@SailingJoy]

Sim ! Para nos precisaremos um que combine ser elétrico e ser uma Cat a vela. Temos alguns já no radar. Sunreef sendo o que mais gostamos até agora. Vamos ver ! Quem sabe. Abração

[@alcibiadesmarcialneto922]

@@SailingJoy o Windelo ainda tem a vantagem de ser feito com fibra de basalto que não pega fogo nem conduz eletricidade! Bons Ventos!

[@SailingJoy]

@@alcibiadesmarcialneto922 que demais. Vou olhar. Abração

[@HanssLin]

Just for the bmw i3 powered torqeedon system itself, you can buy 4 of bmw i3 alone. 😂

[@SailingJoy]

Yes 🙌

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

Thats the problem with boats... The systems however should become available as ex auto parts or major car maker ..like Ford crate motors ...plus the Chinese who make 90% of this stuff for everyone sell their own motors like Golden motor/ BYD etc.

[@dansegelov305]

As I am only really interested in cruising under sails, the electric option seems extremely plausible to me. The questions really are, how much time do you spend actually motoring, vs how much time do you spend in recharge mode? When motoring, how fast do you really need to go? Considering this, there is no reason why you can't build an almost 100% self sufficient drive system. A decent sized solar array, passive regen from the props and wind turbines up on the spreaders. You can be topping off your batteries whilst under sail, or even at anchor. A shore power charger and a small genset could be added for back up, but I would be working towards never using either.

[@SailingJoy]

I agree Dan. That’s definitely the future which in my opinion not to far. All the best Ed

[@dancarter482]

IF you were really going all-out to eliminate diesel, you could have a propane powered generator and cook with that same fuel. But you still run into the tender-motor dilemma ... .... Diesel still wins in the best bang for buck stakes - so diesel-hybrid is the only true four season cruising option - I'd never be without Reflex and Webasto heating for the high latitudes!

[@gustavomonteiro2793]

Maybe in the future, not too far away.

[@SailingJoy]

It will be a dream come true ! For now it seems like a seis por meia dúzia tô me ! 😊

[@gustavomonteiro2793]

@@SailingJoy KKKK. gostei da mescla de idiomas

[@SailingJoy]

@@gustavomonteiro2793 hahahaha

[@TheMrGixxer]

Hi ! How many kW were generating the propellers under sail ? I have seen 3.8 / 3.9 kW ? Am I wrong ?

[@SailingJoy]

Hi Tim. That is about right. I was not able to see it for my self but I was told that it was able to generate about 3 kWs. Best Ed

[@ClaryDavis]

@@SailingJoy if you were using Ocean Volt or other premium electric motor you cna gen around 3.8KW at about .7 knts loss of speed. enough to top the batteres off on port while driving on the sb motor. Also watched a test of charging while at anchor on change tide. the goat generated 1.2KW over knight with the tide change. Couple that with LIpo4 Relion 4 300AH per hull, marbu 12v AC, induction stove aand a torqueedo on the dingy... = NO fuel on board. Insurance went way down due to no gas, propane or diesel on board. All very interresting when looking at a refit. We are currently refitting a voayage 50 with the above system, 10 overall relion batteries and two ocean volt morors= 80k USD. we are tempted to put a genset on board but will sail year 1 w.o a genset. we are going all solar and electric- we are installing 2.5KW solar. thats all the info for now... good luck to the rest of you- we did not want to put yanmars back in and saw the weight savings of no liquid fuels. We removed the fueal tanks for water and an extra storage area.

[@FelipeAraujo_1977]

Tá bonito e a ideia é boa mas ainda um longo caminho pra ser comercialmente vantajoso, né?!

[@SailingJoy]

Sem dúvida ! Concordo. Tá cedo ainda.

[@secondstartotheright]

Love the concept but sounds like it still has a long way to go.

[@SailingJoy]

Do you mean audio or music ? Levels, type ? I appreciate all constructive feedback I am trying to get it right and make sure all enjoy and can get something out of our videos. Best Ed

[@secondstartotheright]

@@SailingJoy oh sorry, your doing an excellent job I meant the all electric cat it is great but still has a long way to go.

[@SailingJoy]

Oh 😮 my apologies ! Got it wrong here in my mind but wanted to make sure I understood. Yes I agree with you, we have a few year ahead of us. Let’s see how it develops. Have a great weekend. Ed

[@secondstartotheright]

@@SailingJoy oh are you one of the architects that built thoes cats?? That's cool great job!!

[@SailingJoy]

Haha. Oh I wish ! 😊😊😊🤓

[@doneB830]

Electric is very noisey, sounds like Chinese bearings and not right.

[@SailingJoy]

I may be it

[@NoBullshitJustGaming]

Olá, eu gosto de ver videos sobre novas tecnologias e também concordo que é um desperdício não ter painéis solares, mesmo tento painéis, ainda acredito que é preciso ter gerador, tudo isso na minha opinião de um expectador que não tem barco kk... Vi também que vocês estavam do lado de um trimaran Neel e tem um canal SailOceans que possuem um desses trimarans e estão pensando na "eletrificação" do seu barco, no ultimo video deles falaram das possibilidades, acho interessante acompanhar pra ver a decisão deles. Abraço, obrigado por mais um video.... PS 1: Gostei do cara na "bicicleta aquática" 🤣 no final do video e desculpa não escrever em inglês, mas sou praticamente uma negação pra escrever

[@SailingJoy]

Oi Gabriel ! Português tá ótimo também não tem problema algum. Vi sim o pessoal do @sailoceans e as opções de motores elétricos. Vou acompanhar para ver mais. Um outra grande opção são os catamarans da Sunreef. Não sei se conhece ! São demais, nos adoramos e provavelmente número um em nossa lista. A única barreira e o preço pois são bem mais caros. Obrigado pela sua mensagem detalhada. Um grande abraço. Ps. Geradores são imprescindíveis sim. Vc está correto. Abrs

[@NoBullshitJustGaming]

@@SailingJoy Vi os Sunreef, também achei interessante, mas realmente o preço é uma barreira, acredito com os anos a tecnologia vai evoluir e o preço diminuir, abraço

[@SailingJoy]

@@NoBullshitJustGaming sem dúvida sobre o preço do motor elétrico e baterias mas eu acredito que marcas como sunreef, essas devem manter os mesmo nível de preços ou até ficar mais caras ( virou uma grife sabe ! ?)

[@gabrielalmeida6674]

@@SailingJoy Opa ED, Desculpa comentar em um video antigo, mas queria tocar nesse ponto do sunreef contigo. Realmente virou um certo tipo de grife, se fosse comparar com carros seria uma Ferrari. Mas eles seguem a linha de catamarans mais pesados, direcionados para chart. Acabam sendo barcos que não conseguem velejar em ventos leves e acabam usando bastante o motor. Eu queria pedir tua visão sobre o mercado de catamarans com uma pegada mais de performance, que conseguem navegar em ventos mais leves de 6 knots mas ainda tem uma qualidade muito alta em acabamento, como os HH ou até mesmo os Balance (e Outremer) que apesar de não estarem no mesmo nível dos HH, são opções interessantes tb... Mas sobre velejar, um sunreef 50 pesa na casa de 40t e um HH52 pesa 12t. Você já considerou essas opções de catamarans de "performance"? Outra pergunta que queria te fazer, você acha que esses barcos com forward helm e cockpit ajuda em velejar single handed? Estou estudando essa opção para comprar o HH52-SCF, construção toda em fibra de carbono e epoxy, é um barco que vai durar 100 anos, bem diferente de outros feitos com fibra de vidro e resina de poliéster... Valeu meu amigo, espero te encontrar no mar futuramente. Bons ventos, abraço.

[@SailingJoy]

@gabrielalmeida6674 fala Gabriel. Valeu pelo recado. Será um prazer conversar com você e te passar minha opinião. Me enviei um e-mail com seus contratos e podemos falar se quiser. [e-mail] Abraços

[@Roucasson]

You can spare us the aggressive « music ». I stopped watching.

[@SailingJoy]

Sorry you did not like the music on this video. Catch us next time it maybe more to your liking. Best Ed

[@darrellpugh6689]

@@SailingJoy also drop the volume of the music about 10% slightly overpowers the spoken voice.....Enjoyed the video , have been watching the Electric coming to Sailboats with much anticipation and joy

[@SailingJoy]

@@darrellpugh6689 Thanks for the constructive feedback. Consider it done ! All the best Ed