Electric vs Diesel off road challenge.

In this episode we take 2 Tesla powered Land Rover Defenders out on one of the most extreme green lanes in the country - Bastard Lane in Mid Wales. As well as the electric Defenders we've also got two diesel 4x4s joining us. A BMW powered Land Rover Defender 90 and an Isuzu Trooper. Let's see how they compare on various obstacles like rock crawls, water crossings, off-camber and some pretty serious inclines and declines on typical wet slippy Welsh rock.
My Tesla powered green Defender has all stock suspension apart from Terrafirma Monotube shocks and runs on BF Goodrich T/A tyres.
The Spectre Defender has a 2" Terrafirma TF234 lift kit, running on Renegade Radar M/T tyres.
Both electric Defenders have 100kWh battery packs with mid mounted Tesla motors producing 450hp and lots of torque. There's 3 LSDs to put the power to where it needs to be, one in each axle and one centrally in the motor. All the electrics are sealed so water crossings are not a problem.

[@drunkinmaster1]

As an American, its really a pleasure to see how the culture of off-roading is in the U.K. Its nice to cut through all the stigmas and stereotypes. Thanks for sharing

[@markcollins457]

This is the best approach converting people to EV for the stubborn digging there heals in it secretly opens a few eyes.

[@georgemcinnes8668]

I am not a an offroader but found this video scarily brilliant to watch

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍😀

[@jayesh5131]

Read my mind

[@greggScutum]

The electric ones go with so much grace ; pure silence; amazing

[@ianmangham4570]

11:06 Such BEAUTY 💯🇬🇧❤ She's pure futuristic moon buggy.

[@georgedaville4662]

I think Land Rover have definitely missed a trick in not talking to you Richard. They have spent billions developing the new Defender model, with only one PHEV variant that is a) too expensive and b) too posh for the people who really need them. The quality of engineering in your vehicles is world class, and you are recycling old Defenders and electric components to produce a very desirable and usable vehicle. I love the way that the regenerative braking turns the motor into a stepper motor giving infinite control. Great video Richard 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿😎

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Thanks. I agree, they shouldn't have stopped making the old Defender. They just needed to modernise it with 21st century drivetrain. 👍

[@charlesgraphman4192]

This is awesome! Love the conversions you all do. Whether it be cars and /or people.

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍😀

[@randomkindness1470]

I'm just half way through the video and I paused to say that this one wins the internet for today... been driving a deisel twincab Isuzu 4x4 for sometime and that trooper put a smile on my face

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks, it was impressive on the rock drops. 👍😀

[@ElectricClassicCars]

That Trooper impressed us all. 👍

[@LifebyLeo.com805]

The electric black 007 was amazing

[@500bht]

I must admit. I'm liking the spectre spec defender. A lot 👍

[@spudproductions7606]

Looks cool 👍😀

[@eubikedude]

Ditch the leather and I would agree. :)

[@taurota1554]

Great content as always.Thanks for sharing and taking us along

[@gnarlybadger690]

Thanks for the massive help getting up Bastard lane guys, the electric Landies were fantastic 👍🏻

[@ElectricClassicCars]

No worries. Hope you guys had a good rest of the day. 😁👍

[@spudproductions7606]

Welcome, hope you had a good day. The spinning rear wheels of the bikes does show how slippy and difficult that climb was. 👍😀

[@pandubaskara2908]

good to know that classic offroad can go-green but still with utility function

[@sahhull]

The only time an EV is green is if you paint it that colour.

[@mikkotor]

I've never really wanted a Land Rover. Now I want an electric one!

[@bluewanderer9903]

Lol, same here

[@stephenwensley9328]

Shame I’m too tall for one, guess I could kick the passengers out and have the seat mounts shifted

[@elenrad8023]

Me too.😄

[@spudproductions7606]

Good choice sir 👍😀

[@ryanclarke2161]

Ladies and ranges are complete garbage off road compared to Nissan patrols. But now with the possibility of electric drive it's time to utilise those aluminium vehicles with Nissan drivetrains for the best off road combination possible.

[@siecieh]

Isuzu Trooper... astonishingly capable

[@spudproductions7606]

Well said. 👍😀

[@Medes06]

that small grey Land Rover is amazing. I love it.

[@ianmangham4570]

Beautiful colours,my all time favourite is Oliv Drab 💯🤠🇬🇧🤟

[@hellisgr]

So smooth and "available on demand" torque delivery on those electrics!

[@kasinatha1]

Excellent. You guys are the hippies. The trendsetters, trail blazers in improving tweaking electric vehicles become formidable off-roaders.

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍😀

[@bordercanoe]

Would be much better if one of them actually had a landrover engine. Entertaining and thanks for sharing

[@simonyoung5480]

Two Mountains worth 😂 that should now be taken as an electric 4x4 standard unit of measure.. Richard you are a genius.

[@ekhaat]

Easy and effortless; sums it up really

[@kerongranger2229]

This was an interesting challenge 🖤 really enjoyed this episode ❤ keep up the good work guys 👏

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍😀😊

[@lauralevenson6325]

1967 Chevy Truck 4x4. Fording a river in Idaho, When it started going sideways…. Butchie calmly states..” “It’s YOUR turn to turn the Hubs in !”

[@briananthony4044]

Reminds me of the day a friend was using her 4x4, unsuccessfully, to tow another vehicle that had become stuck. I asked them, "have you locked the front hubs?" They looked at me dumbfounded so I checked, nope, unlocked. I had seen the rear wheels spinning but not the front. So I locked them by turning the hub knob, hopped in and towed the other vehicle out. Then educated them lol. I had never driven a 4x4 before, except your regular Subaru, where it is a permanent awd setup. But then I am a male, and the driver was female, so.........hehehe

[@alanjackson4646]

Great demonstration of EV Off Road power take up. Cheers AJ

[@kenbone4535]

Nice one Moggy, loved it.

[@gustavougaldeolivares3252]

Amazing work, i love this Lands Rovers greetings from Mexico.

[@samhartfieldlewis5247]

Brilliant, really smart what you have done

[@joshuared1000]

Boy, that looks like too much FUN!!

[@briantarby675]

"We are also converting people..." That is probably an even bigger achievement 😀 and even more important 😊

[@RCDriveChannel]

I thought these were RC Model cars. Lol I know should’ve known from the thumbnail. Still, love the Land Rovers!

[@skwashua]

I wish I could afford one, but I love these!

[@gmac4737]

Jaguar Land Rover Directors must be chuffed with the free advertising this video has given them

[@deasunodonnachadha6408]

nice course!

[@chargeheadsuk]

I love an ICE vs EV video. Awesome! 🔥vs⚡

[@maxtorque2277]

Taking that pretty standard trooper along with those heavily mod'd defenders should get some respect too! In the 'lecy ones all you hear are the springs unseating/reseating and the transmission getting wound up lol! I'd love to see a specific low speed Off road mode where the traction motor is actually put into speed control mode and that speed is set with the accelerator pedal. In this case the high speed torque control capability of the inverter would really shine!

[@ElectricClassicCars]

That's exactly what we have in the Defenders (2 modes) and why we were out that day. Setting up the off road mode in the Black Defender. That Trooper performed fantastic all day. We were very impressed with it's abilities. 👍

[@spudproductions7606]

Trooper did good 👍👍👍

[@TechboyUK]

That looks really fun! I want one 😊👍

[@SequoiaElisabeth]

Super impressive! Fun video 😄

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍😀

[@4x4adventurecz]

This is a really informative video, would love it. Cool

[@luisguerreiro1806]

Nice drive in "Bastards Lane", 2 things for the ultimate off roader, diff lock and lower them tyres pressures to 20psi or less with them light 90s.

[@lauralevenson6325]

One more story… “Hey..lean out and see if the tires are cleaning” Ha ha ha ha in 4 wheel drive, all tires sling up a rooster tail of mud!

[@mrmawson2438]

Great video mate

[@RanDomRikM]

Ah yes, b'stard lane... thought I recognised it. Another great vid, thank's Richard and crew 👍🏻

[@spudproductions7606]

Welcome 👍😀

[@briananthony4044]

Lane, so it actually goes somewhere lol.

[@roscius6204]

4 motor drive and 3D mapping suspension will be the future IMO

[@yanitsvetanov1162]

I'm not a big fan of SUV's, but it was amazing to hear the sounds of nature when the EVs passed by compared to the ICE's. 👍

[@bigglyguy8429]

It's even more amazing when you have an SUV and get ya ass out there. Try it while you still can, because there are people who want to ban it

[@yanitsvetanov1162]

​@@bigglyguy8429 My uncle had an UAZ-469 and we went a few times in the forest in the mountain to work. It wasn't a very pleasant ride: noisy, bumpy, smelly... And nowadays these SUVs are everywhere, but not in the mountain where they belong, taking far too much space in the narrow city streets! I think they should be banned, unless they are EVs (with weight and size limitations) and restricted to certain areas, industries or government agencies!

[@bigglyguy8429]

@@yanitsvetanov1162 I think that people that think other people's choices should be banned, should be banned. Everywhere.

[@moabman6803]

I don't think they should be banned. You think they should be banned because they take up too much space? What kind of reason is that? Thats ridiculous.

[@oilstovesandmore]

Very capable cars and nice route 👍

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Thank you! 👍

[@absteven]

I think this video shows the Isusu is a beast .

[@mrmawson2438]

This will be very interesting between

[@jeromeandre4915]

Nice and Smooth @ 7:38, nice one Richard (y)

[@frazerrennie1340]

A couple of cable ties later, Job done ✔️ 👍.

[@spudproductions7606]

Essential kit in the camera bag 👍😀

[@joeg3950]

Fantastic result. If only I had the cash… Maybe in a few years one is in the cards

[@jasonblair4057]

Great video, watching the precise control of the EV’s was fantastic.

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍😀

[@m.i.andersen8167]

Super cool! I always wear a big smile when your videos are finished👍And now we know it's just a matter of sealing, I look forward to see how it performs as a submarine. But of course you need to find a periscope first 🤣

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Or I just need to hold my breath, or maybe Santa will bring me some scuba gear. 😁👍

[@spudproductions7606]

And be able to hold your breath. 👍😀😂

[@darkmunk1]

Beautiful bits of kit. The silence is golden, especially out in the country. Well done for letting us hear it (no sound track) :) I have a Zero electric Motorbike, listening to birds as you bimble through the lanes, is priceless.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Yep, couldn't agree more. Off roading in near silence is very relaxing. 😁👍

[@spudproductions7606]

Have you watched our episode with the Zero motorbike? 👍😀

[@spudproductions7606]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYqYo557qt5gY6M

[@larrybonin7050]

That works way better than the cyber truck lol. Ev’s need mods awesome glad I seen this one.

[@Andris_Briedis]

You are doing what I have been thinking about. There are so many already existing great cars that could still drive and drive with electric engines without thinking about oil. Cool. You have new subscriber.

[@spudproductions7606]

Welcome 👍😀

[@DB-xq3yn]

Contrary to what I thought, it looked more powerful when, especially the Spector, almost silently climbing than if I heard a diesel. As a hunter, it is also good not to scare away all game within a three mile radius...

[@markriley2733]

Wow that’s just incredible

[@sterlingarcher1962]

9:50 My man, you need limit straps. It's not just about keeping your spring in place but not over extending your shock either. Great video btw!

[@yosu_spilberg]

Me ha encantado la versión eléctrica del Spectra 😉 Como resuenan los bajos, en el descapotable también, se hace raro no oir el motor 😉 se siguen fabricando en versión eléctrica?

[@magnumpunch]

Your "E 90" is my absolute dream

[@yolandeportor6800]

Love watching

[@jeffb6131]

Gotta love the electric Landys, seemed to be very smooth in there operation and probably heaps more reliable as well.

[@spudproductions7606]

You bet 👍😀

[@bigslacker666]

I hadn't at all thought about crawling style offroading using so little energy. We took a friend's Rivian R1T out and compared it to my F150 Raptor on a slower speed trail with a few rock gardens. The R1T did well (needed better suspension) but I was focused on how it performed rather than on how much energy it was using. These rigs you've built are amazing! Would love to have one as an around town/wheeling vehicle here in Tahoe!

[@ElectricClassicCars]

We're going to to a Landy Vs Rivian off road challenge soon. 👍

[@bigslacker666]

@@ElectricClassicCars Looking forward to it! We found the Rivian had good ground clearance with the suspension at full height but it was really stiff as you'd expect. Traction control did a decent job but it's not the same as a locked diff.

[@locknut5382]

Great fun! That electricity consumption came as a complete surprise. Think how practical an electric Landy would be for farmers. Electric tractors next, perhaps? Thanks for the video, Richard. 🙂👍

[@spudproductions7606]

EVs would be ideal for farms/agriculture. 👍😀

[@locknut5382]

@@spudproductions7606 Absolutely! I see that JCB have been making a few tentative steps with plant for the building and demolition industries too. Acorns and oak trees.

[@definitlynotbenlente7671]

Add a solar panel tk the roof that constantly charges the battery

[@marcosdesousaribeiro3698]

Nossa é o máximo esses elétricos.

[@MatthewHeiskell]

This is awesome! Bravo!

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Thanks a lot!

[@AlloffroadAu]

I know it's only a easy dirt road but I'm wondering why non of you seem to air down, it would aid traction immensely and reduce all the bouncing around you do.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Yep. I totally forgot to air down. 😁👍

[@michaelanderson3771]

What tire pressures were you running. From the footage it looks like around 20 psi maybe a little less would help in some of those Rocky crawler sections to gain more grip. Great footage and quietly impressed with all the Landies.

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks, we did drop the pressures for the return trip.

[@bobeden5027]

proper off roading, I used to do that in my kombi! hahaha.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

🤣😂😆 doubtful. 😜👍

[@bobeden5027]

@@ElectricClassicCars Oh Ye of little faith! hahaha.

[@bobeden5027]

@@ElectricClassicCars with my suspension cranked up and my 1800 fuel injection, there weren't many places I could not get too. That rig took me 8 times around Australia over a period of 10 years.

[@dennisharvey4499]

How much do 3 limited slip diffs add to the cost of the transmission compared to the standard land rover setup?

[@tomibiloglav]

I absolutely love your electric Land Rover. When my current leasing expires I’m almost certain I’ll get a conversion kit. :)

[@spudproductions7606]

Wise move 👍😀

[@Udayana_Senanayake]

Cost of conversion of a crew cab to a "007 spec"? 🤔

[@bgbthabun627]

yes I want to know as well!

[@spudproductions7606]

Have you heard the saying “ if you have to ask the price ……………?” 👍😀

[@brentonpiercy]

Would be pretty rad to sort out a locker for that tesla drive. triple locked electric would be slick.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Easily done but so far I've not needed it so not done it. 👍

[@brentonpiercy]

@@ElectricClassicCars who sells a Tesla locker? I’ve seen the lsd but not a full lock. I’ve got an 88 Mitsubishi montero that would be insane with a Tesla drivetrain

[@hillvalley6716]

The difference between noise of the vehicles is so dramatic. First you have the noisy motorbikes, then the diesels with the diesel rumble then the electrics come past and all you hear is the slight electric whine from the motor but most of all you hear nature! Have you guys ever thought of setting up a shop in Australia 🇦🇺?

[@spudproductions7606]

It is wonderful to hear the birds and trees etc as you rumble by. 👍😀

[@briananthony4044]

I seem to remember they have a dealer in Australia that installs their kits.

[@Maikel1500]

The next thing would be 4 individual motors with smart control as to measure the movement and it could feel the environment as in the position. As the position of the car in general would be a thing the axle s could also be included in such a system as into the amount of weight is on there, the amount of contact and I know Land Rover has a sort system like that but it could be brung to several level higher I think. After all said it’s “offcoure’s” much more fun to having it being a challenge and a bigger reward after overcoming thats what been put under your wheels or just in front of you. That said I do wanna have a electric genuine landrover defender.

[@petergoodall6258]

4 inboard motors and brakes - regen mostly

[@robertamoyaw8812]

It's great for heavy 🚦 traffic 👍

[@dave1secondago]

thumbs up for the lekkie landy awesome vid yet again

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks 👍😀

[@eubikedude]

Fantastic the way you can hear the "nature noises" and get a sense of calm with the electric versus the revving etc. of the diesels.

[@ethanharvey5368]

Hey I've got some questions if you or anyone could answer that would be great 1. How long would the charge last in long trips on road cause here in NZ there's lots of open country 2. Does it have the option for a manual like in diesel Other than that I'm liking the electric conversion

[@simonburleigh5551]

Do you do a kit for a Freelander that would be interesting with the off road pack?

[@benmartin339]

Certainly need further comparisons on different terrain and towing in them. I mainly do sand tracks (soft) and to a camper trailer and also far off the grid where there are no option for charging stations. Then add on the Australian heat running the air condition, as the same time. The trip on the tracks takes about 4 hours if they are good, super soft 5 to 7 hours. Last trip was super soft and I was around the 16 - 17Lper 100km. Normal with out towing I’m 10L around town. Towing is 12-13L. I’d have doubts around capability of EV’s in our climate and ability not to run out of power in remote areas.

[@jeffreyrwilliams9345]

Thank you

[@DaanvanGruisen]

Brilliant! Wish I could afford! Wasn't the "hill decent" engine breaking a bit too aggressive? Would be even more brilliant if the engine breaking mode was adjustable on the go!?

[@ElectricClassicCars]

It is adjustable on the go, via an app and a slider. 👍

[@larrybonin7050]

For semi trucks going down a big hill in Canada it would be charging the batteries all the way down.

[@codingbloke]

Cleverly started off with 75% battery at the top so all that lovely heavy regen had somewhere to go. I'd have loved to know what the battery was at the bottom? Also what happens to all that energy if the battery was full and you needed that Regen to slow you down? That would have come out as heat right? Can the cooling systems cope with that?

[@StationGarageSt]

You guys are sooooooooooo clever, excellent camerawork, genuine jealous! ps I'm the guy with a 'scope on the dash of my wasserboxer 2.1 so thanks for the look around the EV Wizard's Works of Wales the other day. Jamie.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

Hi Jamie. Great to meet you the other day. We loved your VW T3. 😎👌

[@StationGarageSt]

@@ElectricClassicCars By the way I passed my EV masters training over at Church Stratton. OVA guys really do in-depth stuff. I pointed them in your direction too.

[@spudproductions7606]

Thanks for the comment on camera work. 👍😀😀

[@scaleaddicted]

The electric powered vehicles, will overcome the ICEs. Even with my i3 driving on loose terrain, when I go crawling with my 1/10 RCs in the forest, its so easy to modulate the throttle and I can imagine, if this i3 would have 4 WD and a bit more clearance, will crawl like a beast...

[@glennbellamy7004]

Amazing but how much do they cost ?

[@jihadalnatsha168]

Your content is wonderful and useful... But I have a question... Can I connect the electric motor to an old automatic gearbox... that depends on oil pressure to transfer gears

[@ElectricClassicCars]

We've found that old Auto boxes can't cope with the instant torque of electric motors. 👍

[@DAVIDWilliams-gr9lx]

Great comparison and a really interesting video. The off road mode is presumably needed to prevent drivetrain component damage due to the availability of instant, unrestrained 100% torque without it. Very clever indeed. Real shame you completely ignored the long-standing Voluntary Restraint though, which is to prevent excessive damage caused by driving the lane in an uphill direction. Sadly this vid may only encourage others to do the same, hastening the inevitable TRO and consequent ban.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

The off road mode just makes it easier to drive in slow technical sections, as well as other advantages like hi regen for hill descents. Someone else has mentioned this voluntary restraint in the comments. I live local and wasn't aware of it. No signs on the lane either to explain it. Where did you hear of this and who has put that in place as nobody seems to know about it. Lots of people were doing it uphill when we were there.

[@DAVIDWilliams-gr9lx]

From Wikiloc: Horseshoe lane (aka b/stard lane) the (Snowdonia national) park ask that you drive this in a one way s to n direction until it swaps to a w to e where it drops down to the waterfall, to minimise any futher damage as trying to drive up the waterfall is leading to oil and fluids getting into the holiday villages water supply. For any futher info you can contact the parks head access officer Peter Rutherford on O79OO2674538 or office on O176677O274 GLASS also have it marked as VR downhill only on Trailwise2. I live locally too and have done it in both directions (pre VR) and going uphill is more challenging. Presumably many users, even if aware of the VR, ignore it for this reason. There was physical signage at one time, but it routinely "disappeared".... HTH and thanks for your further comment re. Offroad mode.

[@johnrowbotham2810]

I'd say a big sales point missed by Moggy at the end of the video, is I reckon the electric L/rovers as well as being so much more efforless to drive would be the ease and less strain on all the major componets with the electric powertrain. The extra abuse the engine, clutch, gearbox ,etc an ice powered Landie takes over rough terrain would be way lower with ECC's electric power train. Just wish they wern't so expensive to convert, richmans toy at the momen. There's a huge market for a no nonsense, no frills, 4x4 utility. Wish someone could make an affordable electric 4x4 pick up utilising. galvanised chassis, rust proof panels, sealed electrical components basic cab, one you can pressure wash inside out to clean....job done! Should last a life time.

[@johnrowbotham2810]

p.s. to my above comment. My only hope is that the Tesla Cybertruck gets scaled down in size for UK/European roads, i'd buy that!

[@joshuajaydan]

I want an electric Rover. Well done.

[@grahamwest1079]

Are conversion prices coming down with the bolt in kits ramping up? You all did well in tricky conditions. Mine would be fine on bastard lane as is. Would be good to compare M57 conversion costs to the Electric conversion costs for a realistic comparison.

[@carholic-sz3qv]

Actually I think electric is still way too expensive for the mass but for the diesel you can convert yours to run on used oils for the restaurant at the corner of your house 😅😅😂

[@Pocketfarmer1]

When you run out of propellant out in the woods and have to walk reserve propellant back in , which is easier to carry on foot liquid fuel or electric supply?

[@StiloNautica]

Really like the green LR. but what about an electric Fiat Panda 4x4 !!

[@RobFarley74]

I'm not an off roader, however, I assume a lot of the love of it is the balancing the gas and clutch, keeping the revs up, not stalling it... So would guess it's probably quite difficult to shift the mindset in a good lump of people to not having to worry about that.

[@liamadams8647]

@@alanmay7929 massively debatable

[@clooperman3745]

@@alanmay7929 It's all down to personal preference, having driven offroad for nearly 50 years with auto and manual transmissions I would have said manual a few years ago but advancing age and worn out knees I find auto easier to use now but manuals are just as good, I've yet to find an auto that can crawl as slow as my Unimogs 4000/1 ratio!

[@clooperman3745]

@@alanmay7929 My 406 is manual, with 20 forward ratios!!

[@clooperman3745]

@@alanmay7929 My 406 does about 80yds per hour downhill, all on engine breaking without any electronic intervention, if hdc failed on an auto going down a steep hill there could be problems especially if the ground is slippery.

[@AdventureRockNRoller]

Is that electric spectre defender available for the Australian market?

[@bnrynlds]

It's funny but that reg plate says BOOT SPaCe to me!

[@TimFoster]

7:25: is your off-road regen mode equivalent to the engine-braking we'd get from going downhill in a 200tdi 2nd-gear low-ratio going downhill? I suppose the answer is "Maybe? See how you get on?" Just wondering what the feel of going slowly downhill is like in an electric 4x4 vs a traditional one. Have you ever been surprised at the response?

[@spudproductions7606]

The regen is increased in “off road “ mode and also charges the battery. If you watch the episode in this link, it gives a good demonstration of the regen in action. 👍😀 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGSbpWqlad-soLc

[@ricardomusicdoc7227]

Much of the power is utilised in moving the great lumps of metal -vehicles. Is there a measurable difference between the power needed to move a deisel Landy and an electric one? In one the deisel engine has to be moved, with a little tiny human perched on top. In the electric Landy is most of the power used to move the battery-packs? thanks guys!

[@ElectricClassicCars]

The amount of energy required to move the vehicles should be the same as the weight is the same.