Nice explanation, but the original question was about electric versus acoustic crossovers, not active versus passive. Acoustic crossovers could describe a whizzer cone or dustcap that is mechanically decoupled from the larger woofer cone at higher frequencies, which is an older technology typically not used on high-end speakers now. Wiki has a good description of this.
@maxb.simonsen24592 жыл бұрын
To answer the questions about the different types of crossovers and terms. Passive crossover: Uses passive components e.g. capacitors, inductors and resistor. Used within a loudspeaker. Active crossover: Uses op amps, resistors and capacitors. Used before the amp, therefore also needing 1 amp per driver. Digital crossover: Uses math to change sample values. More info search for IIR or FIR filter. Used before the D/A converter, therefore needing 1 Dac and 1 amp per driver. Electronic/Electrical crossover, My interpretation: Only used to describe the passive or active crossover points and not looking at the drivers response. Acoustic crossover: Where the driver actually crossover over at. Since the drivers themselves has a phase and magnitude response the drivers will influence where the crossover point actually is. E.g. speaker with 2 drivers has a 1st order butterworth filter with a crossover point set at 2kHz. The drivers responses makes it so that the acoustic crossover point is at 2.2 kHz.
@ThinkingBetter2 жыл бұрын
Yes, but the term "active crossover" means doing the filtering before the power amplifier. This can be done either using analog or digital (using DSP) circuitry.
@maxb.simonsen24592 жыл бұрын
@@ThinkingBetter Not in my book. If using DSP i would call it a digital crossover. DSP litterally means Digital signal processing
@ThinkingBetter2 жыл бұрын
@@maxb.simonsen2459 Wikipedia: "Active crossovers are distinguished from passive crossovers in that they split up an audio signal prior to the power amplification stage, so that it can be sent to two or more power amplifiers, each of which is connected to a separate loudspeaker driver.". An active crossover can be either digital or analog. I agree if you use a DSP, you can call it a digital active crossover and since there is no digital passive crossover, you could just use the term "digital crossover" and people would know what you mean. BTW, a digital crossover could be done using a CPU also as digital audio processing doesn't require a dedicated DSP IC. For example, nowadays ARM CPUs are often used as DSPs.
@BruceCross2 жыл бұрын
Active and passive crossovers aren't defined by whether they're placed before or after the amplifier, although it's how they're implemented. They're defined by whether the components of the circuit are electrically powered (active) or not electrically powered (passive). Passive is powered by the amplifier signal, but not by wall current. To reference Wikipedia again, "Active crossovers come in both digital and analog varieties." "Electronic crossover" usually refers to an active crossover, although a passive crossover uses electronic parts, too.
@ThinkingBetter2 жыл бұрын
@@BruceCrossThere has been zero ambiguity in this topic in my career for decades and what Wikipedia says is aligned with that: "Active crossovers are distinguished from passive crossovers in that they split up an audio signal prior to the power amplification stage, so that it can be sent to two or more power amplifiers, each of which is connected to a separate loudspeaker driver". So even you use passive components that are not powered prior to the power amplifier (RLC), we will still call it an active crossover. I can agree this is a bit confusing (especially active crossover with passive components). Agree, electronic crossover usually refer to active crossover. I never use that term. When I worked at B&O we were pioneering the active crossover in speakers ages ago initially with passive components initially analog and later with DSP incl. IcePower (my colleagues started that, now used by PS Audio), e.g. the Beolab 90 that I have. Right now I'm listening to my KEF LS50W2 that also do active DSP crossover. Even my garage speakers are some decades old CX100s that I reworked with something called a "Beocreate 4" kit of a 4 channel amplifier with a Raspberry Pi doing the crossover (ARM CPU) and WiFi. I wouldn't call those garage speakers audiophile, but they sound better than ever. I have 8 stereo systems in this house (3 passive crossover).
@andersbaptist9762 жыл бұрын
Well....in the Westminster there are a few different crossovers and some of them are acoustic ones. The handover between the front horn and the back loaded horn is the most obvious one and it is purely acoustic. The same goes for a full range driver in a box, from box to main cone, from main cone to whizzer and from whizzer to voice coil, no electrical components, passive or active are involved but it's a crossover just the same.
@wilcalint2 жыл бұрын
See my post here on the Tannoy Acoustic crossovers designed for sound re-enforcement for movie theaters in the late 1920's. An Acoustic crossover is very different then a passive crossover.
@montynorth30092 жыл бұрын
The Westminster on the manufacturers site indicates passive Xover plus Bi- wiring.
@wilcalint2 жыл бұрын
@@montynorth3009 I wouldn't doubt that today's Tannoy Speakers are using a discreet passive crossover. But back in the 1920's such things were not really available and cheap. So they went with an Acoustic crossover. I believe that Altec Lansing did simaler things.
@marianneoelund29402 жыл бұрын
The Tannoy Westminster is a huge (530 liter) folded-horn speaker which also uses a concentric HF driver (horn tweeter) that radiates from the center of the woofer cone. The woofer radiates forward through a medium-size horn structure, which has a cutoff around 200Hz, and it radiates to the rear through a large folded horn for the lower frequencies. That comprises an acoustic crossover between the two paths. But it's one driver, so this type of "crossover" is a fundamentally different concept, than crossing over between two separate drivers. There is still an electrical crossover for the tweeter.
@jeremiahchamberlin44992 жыл бұрын
You always make such helpful and informative comments. I immediately sensed that Paul should have referenced the particular speaker before launching his discussion of active vs. passive crossovers. Thank you for enlightening us all on the true nature of the question, and answering it. 👍
@douglasbonner65432 жыл бұрын
In a past system I had a Sumo Samson subwoofer and a Sumo Delilah electrictronic crossover set at 63hz. This combination worked like a charm. On the other hand if I had chosen a passive crossover the inductor would have been massive and heavy.
@Acidrockracer2 жыл бұрын
Hey Paul, where do I submit questions? I have a question I hope you could answer.
@jeremiahchamberlin44992 жыл бұрын
Note: Tannoy Westminster Royal SE Speakers go for $25,000.00. Specs listed in advertise crossover as ‘B200 Hz acoustical, 1.0 kHz electrical.’
@hugobloemers44252 жыл бұрын
That's a nice story but I am not sure it was the question... Wasn't there the mention of acoustic cross over? I would consider that for instance a woofer that rolls off on the high side at relatively low frequencies. (SEAS has a 10" woofer that rolls off at 1,5 kHz so it does not need filter components and you end up with one capacitor for the tweeter. Though arguably even that is partially an electric cross over because of the high increase of the impedance curve.)
@gregvisioninfosoftКүн бұрын
3 questions: a) I assume old fashioned active crossovers are still using capacitors and coils (merely optimized for the higher impedances of the pre amplifier stages, as opposed to the 8 ohms of a speaker coil) - hence using much smaller inductors. In any case, wont an active crossover still have the undesirable innate 'phase shifts' at the crossover points? b) is there any crossover technology that preserves the phase relationship across the full audio spectrum? If so what is the name of this constant phase solution? c) When one uses an active crossover, and the need for 6 amplifiers, I dont understand how one deals with the notion of turning the volume up and down. Must one adjust each of the 6 amplifiers individually every time they need to go from low volume to a higher volume (which implies a calibration step using a microphone and certain frequencies sent into the system)? This does not seem very efficient of ones time.
@davidteague38492 жыл бұрын
Paul. You got it wrong. The tannoy Westminster is a passive system and quotes the electrical transfer function as well as resulting acoustic crossover. The electrical is higher at 1Khz due to the horn loading of the compression driver boosting the low end thus arriving at an acoustic crossover to the 15" woofer at 200Hz as I read it Basically the acoustic crossover point is what really matters here
@ThinkingBetter2 жыл бұрын
Acoustic crossover = filter the sound with acoustical means (tune driver, box, speaker mesh). Electronic crossover = filter the sound with electronic means, e.g. passive (after power amp) or active (before power amp).
@wilcalint2 жыл бұрын
See my post here on the Tannoy Acoustic crossovers designed for sound re-enforcement for movie theaters in the late 1920's. An Acoustic crossover is very different then a passive crossover.
@Harald_Reindl2 жыл бұрын
Digital crossovers are the future - no phase shifting, no bad capacitors, no wasted money
@avro662 жыл бұрын
Fantastic speakers, I've used many tannoy duel consentric speakers over the years, unfortunately I could never afford or acomidate the Westminster Royal speakers.
@ThinkingBetter2 жыл бұрын
For serious audiophiles with a desire to maximally optimize their system, go active!
@nikosidis2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Paul. Learned something from you again :)
@truthnaut78292 жыл бұрын
So from what Paul was saying, the crossover with mid and high attenuation knobs on the front of my Cerwin Vega's are an electronic crossover?
@paran0ia72 жыл бұрын
Those are just passive potentiometers, used for room/personal taste compensation. An active crossover will always be before the power amps, and likely have its own connection to mains power.
@mateodeo91612 жыл бұрын
So active crossover delivers the best sound quality?
@aaronsmith82652 жыл бұрын
Great video! More curse words please! 😂
@adityachatterjee44982 жыл бұрын
How to divide wattage of the 3 way drivers in active crossover... like 150 watt stereo... how to divide wattage of the (high, mid & low) frequency drivers?
@holliswong85192 жыл бұрын
Got it!
@thebearujb2 жыл бұрын
So what's your opinion Paul, which do you prefer, passive or electronic?
@davebalfour61582 жыл бұрын
Just to add to the confusion, or not. We have the LLCO or the line level crossover that's often inserted between pre amplifier and power amplifiers. How would this device be classified? It is passive after all.
@ThinkingBetter2 жыл бұрын
Crossover before the power amp is active as the term active vs passive crossover is about where in the signal path the filter is located and not if it's based on active or passive circuitry. So you can have a passive filter working as an active crossover if you use capacitors, inductors and resistors in a circuit placed before the power amp. It seems this video made some people quite confused.
@davebalfour61582 жыл бұрын
@@ThinkingBetter the LLCO is not a powered crossover but operates at line level but I can see your point Maybe Paul could say a few words about these crossovers; benefits and disadvantages say.
@wirelessdj2 жыл бұрын
What do you think of using capacitors for an active circuit as a crossover? I want built a high pass filter with capacitors using line level. Everyone I spoke to said it was not a good idea?
@maxb.simonsen24592 жыл бұрын
Np, just remember to include the acoustic response of the drivers when designing. Usually you would only use capacitors for active crossovers
@ThinkingBetter2 жыл бұрын
It's not a bad idea to make the filtering before the power amp because it means the power amp can directly drive your speakers with best possible control and your crossover can be more optimized. The reason active crossover is less popular is that it is much harder to do as you now need to optimize the filter behavior outside the speaker that you purchased. For serious audiophiles with a desire to optimize their system, go active!
@vessk0002 жыл бұрын
This is an active analogue crossover, it's NOT electronic!
@zeusapollo86882 жыл бұрын
Linkwitz-riley vs bessel vs Butterworth
@johnsoprych4832 жыл бұрын
I thought "acoustic" crossover was like the enclosure dampening effect on the response curve (as opposed to passive/active electronic components) :\
@mryoureauser67232 жыл бұрын
Add another volt and three quarters to the voltage quadrupler in your watch and the brakes will come on to the squealing noise. An active crossover made from a scrap p.c.b can sure spank a power robbing passive version without the bad interactions with a voice coil.
@montynorth30092 жыл бұрын
Quite right. You get the full damping factor of the amp with active.
@marianneoelund29402 жыл бұрын
@@montynorth3009 No, because the voice coil also has significant resistance. System damping factor is never anywhere near the amplifier damping factor. It's almost impossible to exceed a system damping factor of 4, with copper voice coils. With graphene, you could go up to 6.
@threatripper2 жыл бұрын
Question-----digital crossover?
@andrewclough6602 жыл бұрын
meanwhile out in the factory........."hey anyone seen Paul ? Yeah he's holed up making bloody KZbin clips" Tell him we need more capacitors....
@RudieVissenberg2 жыл бұрын
wow, the first one to watch the video. Interesting as usual
@playbackvintagehifihunter96692 жыл бұрын
🏅
@artyfhartie22692 жыл бұрын
The concept of straight wire with gain has been dumped for more and more electronic hardware especially when it comes to digital audio viz streamers, external DACs, USBs etc
@rjlopez93582 жыл бұрын
💯
@phantom622 жыл бұрын
When your watch went ding, I looked at my iPhone 😂
@nicolasjoly17552 жыл бұрын
the question was about acoustic crossover, which is weird
@ThinkingBetter2 жыл бұрын
It's crossover by acoustic means. Tannoy is using that in their concentric sound driver, for example. I suspect that is what inspired this question.
@montynorth30092 жыл бұрын
I think the questioner was talking about a passive crossover but used the wrong terminology.
@ThinkingBetter2 жыл бұрын
@@montynorth3009 Tannoy does acoustic crossover. Tannoy was mentioned in the question. Check "Tannoy Dual Concentric by Definition".
@nicolasjoly17552 жыл бұрын
@@ThinkingBetter so as Paul did not seem to know what may be acoustic filters, ,he gave a sidestepping answer
@ThinkingBetter2 жыл бұрын
@@nicolasjoly1755 Perhaps, "acoustic crossover" is not a common term. Also "electronic crossover" is not a good term as I would argue that passive crossover is also electronic. Usually the terms "active" and "passive" are used to specify if the filtering is done before or after the power amplifier. Also, you can divide active crossover into DSP (digital) or analog.