Elemental Extractions #3.2: Lithium Revisited

[@zzq3248]

If you would like your lithium metal to be much more shiny by the time you place it in the ampule, you can immediately submerge it in mineral oil and cut it into strips under the surface. It will be slippery and feel pretty weird, but it will stop any tarnishing. Once that is done you can wipe off the oil under the argon atmosphere then transfer it to the ampule. Once flame sealed, there should be minimal oxidation. That process worked well for me!!

[@desromic]

I had pretty good luck cutting the battery in the center to begin with. You have more to grip when you pull it apart. Also, for those who don't want to build a glove box or buy argon, it works just as well to open the "jelly roll" while it's submerged in mineral oil (I just used a tupperware container). I put it in a small vial of oil about a year and a half ago, and it still has some luster.

[@KowboyUSA]

Nice follow up, sir. *Lithium batteries: what a marvel of modern manufacturing. **A clear glass window on the camera side of your glove box would be a great upgrade.

[@elijahbaley1720]

I made a glove box similar to yours for handling alkali metals. I bought an argon cylinder like yours. I had the same problem as you wit the metal tarnishing in the argon atmosphere no matter how much purging I did. My son is a chemical engineer and he said the argon cylinders intended for welding contain a small amount of oxygen and possibly water vapor. Inert enough for welding but not 100% inert. In professional labs. they run the argon through an oxygen/moisture trap to get a completely inert atmosphere. They sell oxygen/moisture traps on Ebay for a reasonable price. I plan to try that next.

[@mrhomescientist]

Interesting! That's definitely something to look into for the future.

[@markbell9742]

A couple things that might improve your glove box. Add a petri dish with some very dry calcium chloride to absorb water (can get as a pool chemical) and a second dish with the power from a hand warmer (pyrophoric iron) to absorb oxygen. Also add a small computer fan to circulate the argon over the dishes. If you make your glove box absolutely air tight (with an inlet and outlet valve) you can first purge with argon then close the valves and let the argon circulate for a time so any residual moisture and oxygen are absorbed before cracking into your sensitive chemicals. Cheers, Mark

[@warrentb1]

I hear that iron based oxygen absorbers do not work well or at all without humidity.

[@mrhomescientist]

CodysLab did a video where he filled a 2L bottle with pure oxygen and put a hand warmer in it, and it absorbed the entire volume of the bottle. You're right though, he did add some water to help it out. I want to try that but haven't gotten around to it yet.

[@markbell9742]

Yeah, maybe so. A more involved way is to circulate the gas through a tube filled with copper wool or granules at a few 100 degrees (best temp ?). The copper will turn black as copper oxide forms. the copper can be regenerated with hydrogen to form water. Cheers, Mark

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

I did this a long time ago with good results but I was doing it for fun. We took the lithium and put it in a small plastic ball with a hole in it then put that in a gatorade bottle with water. Homemade DANGEROUS fireworks. I had a video for a long time on my channel showing the explosion but then realized it might be considered bomb making and took it down. I never had a glovebox or anything just did it outside in the fall. I tried it again last summer (that was a mistake) the lithium reacted with the air and humidity. I probably should have not done mid oklahoma summer after it rained.

[@robmckennie4203]

What's the plan for sodium? I've been thinking about having a go at making sodium metal from table salt, the process is pretty neat. You make sodium hydroxide using the chloralkali process, dry the hydroxide, then melt and electrolyze it to make sodium metal.

[@mrhomescientist]

I'm still throwing around a few ideas. I need to work up the courage and make a safety plan for working with molten hydroxide though!

[@robmckennie4203]

mrhomescientist I have 2 mottos in my life. Nike, "just do it", and a paraphrase from a song by They Might be Giants, "I got a full lifetime supply, of plans that go awry."

[@hunterboyvids]

You can use magnesium powder and sodium hydroxide thermite. Nighthalkinlight has a video on how to make it.

[@robmckennie4203]

hunterboyvids I wouldn't bet that process would be very efficient or give a very pure product. I'd also hesitate about using something like magnesium, unless you mined it yourself, while a natural source of sodium chloride is often pretty easy to come by.

[@hunterboyvids]

True but i wonder if a calcium hydroxide magnesium thermite work? calcium oxide is easily made from heating eggs shells or limestone.

[@wb5rue]

I used a brass scrubber soaked in mineral oil to clean the surface. It took away most of the oxide and nitride while coating the sample.

[@mrhomescientist]

Good idea!

[@wb5rue]

I wasn't as quite as methodical in disassembling my batteries. I just had a pair of pliers and wire cutters to very carefully remove the positive end, the pressure valve and cap. Then I pealed away the steel case very carefully until I could grab the plastic and pull it out. I got the idea from NurdRage. I made the same mistake you did, I thought the FeS2 coated foil was the Lithium until I went back and watched the video again. The black coating that covers the Lithium is actual Lithium Nitride Li3N and not the Oxide (which is white.) Lithium is one of the only metals that will combine directly with the Nitrogen in the air.

[@Willielikesmonkeys]

That measurement did NOT measure energy density because not all of those cells have the same capacity. Only similar volume.

[@trustthewater]

Agreed. The lithium batteries do have a higher energy density but it isn't just because they weigh less.

[@bluestickman2684]

I keep short circuiting them. What am I doing wrong? Does twisting them cause it?

[@mrhomescientist]

They are pretty easy to short out, especially if you squeeze them too hard or pinch the top too much. The pipe cutter method has worked great for me. The steel case just takes a good bit of effort to get through. Careful not to cut into the battery innards! That can also short it out.

[@bluestickman2684]

@@mrhomescientistThank you! I've done the pipecutter method it only worked once for my element collection.

[@wb5rue]

You got it right, the "clean" one is the Lithium.

[@MuzikBike]

What if you try to extract it from a dead lithium battery? Would metallic lithium still be there, or would it have reacted into a sulfide salt?

[@kirkmisner3131]

if you want shiny lithium put it in your argon box and quickly stick it in it and a jar of ether then cut it up and it'll stay shiny

[@rajeshshahi1000]

So when are publish about Be?

[@hunterboyvids]

Would lithium react with chloroform to make LiCCl3? or would it pull the chlorine of the chloroform to make methane and lithium chloride?

[@codyho9430]

Try it. Nile red has a guide for chloroform.

[@Keldor314]

Looks like 3Li2 + 2HCCl3 -> 2HCLi3 + 3Cl2.

[@hunterboyvids]

+Cody Ho i have tried it, i have a video up on it(its not very good) and i got a white solid. I think that solid would be lithium ethoxide becuase i used ethanol to stablize my chloroform. But, in basic conditions, chloroform makes dichlorocarbene radical, could this react with the ammonia, made from a coating of lithium nitride, to make cyanide? Dichlorocarbene reacts with amines to make a isocyanide, but does this happen with ammonia?

[@awabo4513]

you got yourself a subscriber!!!!

[@idopyrotechnics]

where do you buy your ampules?

[@AllChemystery]

LOL no need to be ashamed! i made this exact same mistake when i first unraveled a Li battery a few years ago. i only realized when no reaction occurred when i put the supposed Li into water.

[@Wunderbred66]

Could you put the box under a constant 1.5 atm of dry nitrogen gas, Its cheap at a refrigeration supply store like RLS because its used to purge refrigeration systems before charging. Its dry because you don't want stray moisture in a system, we all know what happens when we heat halocarbons in the presence of water. It could help keep the air out, and is safe for you too. Also if you wanted to synthesize it couldn't you use electrolysis of LiOH, much like sodium and potassium from NaOH, and KOH respectively.

[@mrhomescientist]

As I mentioned, you can't use nitrogen for this because lithium reacts with it. I've never tried electrolysis of molten hydroxides, so I'm not sure about that one. Dangerous, for sure!

[@Wunderbred66]

@@mrhomescientist lol, I missed the part about nitrogen and I watched the video twice. Is there another cheaper inert gas you could use to keep the pressure above 1atm. Yes electrolysis of hydroxides is very dangerous, but if you a hydroxide as opposed to a salt you end up with a purer product and non-toxic gas. But I guess I didn't need to explain that to you.

[@mrhomescientist]

@@Wunderbred66 It could have been in one of the other parts. Unfortunately Li is very reactive and there aren't too many options. I suppose any of the other noble gases would work, but argon is probably the easiest and cheapest. I know someone will mention helium, and sure that would work IF you can find a pure source. Balloon grade helium is intentionally contaminated with oxygen. See my helium video on that! 🙂

[@Wunderbred66]

@@mrhomescientist I was thinking the same thing as you, where can a hobbiest find a GC quality helium. I was just thinking of having a regulator set >1atm and gas on so the inside of the glovebox is always a little more pressurised than the surroundings. Argon could work but I don't know the cost.

[@mrhomescientist]

@@Wunderbred66 The gas itself is pretty cheap. The cylinder is the expensive part!

[@aletoledo1]

I wonder how the battery manufacturers keep the lithium from being tarnished?

[@tonytoi8556]

Magic

[@MuzikBike]

The power of Satan

[@seigeengine]

I'm guessing they do it the same way: A non-reactive atmosphere. Except they're going to be better at it than some guy with a plastic box.

[@mrhomescientist]

I saw a documentary about that once. All the machines where they handle lithium are in a big box full of inert gas. Very cool!

[@robertesparza7152]

Do americium from a old or new smoke detector

[@S3v3n13tt3r5]

Where are you going to get beryllium?

[@fireandcopper]

He'll probably skip the dangerous ones, maybe a few allotropes such as white phosphorus, ozone and so forth

[@warrentb1]

Beryllium isn't really dangerous as long as you don't mishandle it and end up breathing it. Also, it is reasonably common in radio frequency electronics, which can be obtained as surplus.

[@fireandcopper]

+W Bailey It's not dangerous to the handler if properly handled, but collateral damage could be catastrophic

[@warrentb1]

If you can't handle a beryllium containing ceramic insulator without grinding it into a fine powder and snorting it you probably shouldn't be handling anything more dangerous than table salt. I don't see how any "collateral damage" could be catastrophic, we're talking pretty tiny amounts of the stuff here. It isn't like we're talking about industrial manufacture. If you are really scared of beryllium for some reason you could always buy a small sample of a beryllium copper alloy where it is completely safe (and useful for non-sparking tools)

[@fireandcopper]

+W Bailey BenNbuilds made a magnet, with beryllium. take a look at the precautions he took

[@user-tp4hx7hm3n]

i know this is a bit unrelated but when people use batteries when making meth, are the lithium strips what they're seeking?

[@user-tp4hx7hm3n]

+Darrell Lancaster agreed.

[@savourymilkman8147]

open the battery under mineral oil, that should solve the issue of the glove box

[@mrhomescientist]

Savoury Milkman The problem there is lithium floats in any liquid you can store it in, so theres always a bit that will corrode. Plus I like inert gas because you dont have to clean the oil off when you want to use it.

[@savourymilkman8147]

Well unless im mistaken, the problem with your glove box currently is that it is now allowing oxygen in from outside of the box, so floating to the top of the oil being an issue seems a little ironic :D. Im kidding around, really sucks that that started happening to ya. Could not agree more about having to clean the oil off before using, might make a decent temp solution for emergencies tho

[@albugeorge4575]

pleaze post other videos

[@KylesYTU]

Awesome!!!!

[@createvideo561]

They are not oxidised they are nitrodized

[@m3n4lyf]

Do that shit in a tub of mineral oil, forget argon, and the glove box. Same for storage.

[@mrhomescientist]

I like this method for a number of reasons. If I ever want to use the lithium, it's ready to go and I don't need to clean any oil off. Li floats on oil, so there's always some that is exposed to air and will corrode, which won't happen sealed under argon. I also think it looks nicer as a display sample when under argon. Finally, I also enjoyed the challenge of making the glove box and got a lot of satisfaction seeing it work for the first time.

[@tonymengela]

Pair of scissors on negative side cut around edge until a little metal left then needle nose pliers to twist some metal out of the way then put out battery no chance of grounding out, leave it rolled up drop it in camp fuel wont tarnish. all that argon stuff is a waste of gas and time

[@mrhomescientist]

It will eventually, as oxygen diffuses into the kerosene (or whatever liquid you store it in). That's why my original sample of lithium which I show in the video is completely black now. Also, there is no inert liquid that lithium will not float in, so at least part of it will always be outside the liquid. Using argon also protects the metal without covering it in something that would be annoying to remove if you ever use the metal for chemistry later.

[@tonymengela]

mrhomescientist Im talking about when you first pull it out then you just seal it up inside the oil. or use it up. its simple fast and easy.

[@seigeengine]

And completely ignores the purpose of getting the lithium in the first place. Arrogance is not your friend.

[@tonymengela]

mrhomescientist The oil wont stick to the lithium and you leave it rolled up until you need it also make sure you pull the thin strip of metal at the very beginning.

[@tonymengela]

seigeengine and who is that comment pointed at

[@wiktorstankiewicz3568]

lol