Elite (1984) and Elite: Dangerous (2014) - The docking comparison

[@MattLangleyUK]

I see they've improved it a bit.

[@StargliderGaming]

In a few places, yeah ;)

[@semibiotic]

Yeah, about 56 bits more.

[@Parable_One]

Lol

[@TetyLike3]

bro wym???? now its too fast-paced for me!

[@Djrealfake]

Ever since the Odyssey update I get about the same frame rate landing at a station

[@ChrisM541]

That 1984 version is a programming masterpiece, all the more remarkable since it was written in 100% assembly language, and, for the BBC Micro version, on a 32k computer. Machine code (opcode/operand) optimisation and out-of-the-box thinking reigned supreme in those days.

[@IsaacAllwood]

I had no idea Elite was written in assembly or for a 32k computer, holy shit!

[@frenchmanntube]

I don't think writing it in machine code made it remarkable at all, nearly ALL GAMES of that era were. Basic was far too slow for game play because of the need for an interpreter, and memory was precious so nearly all games were rarely written in Basic as it was such a waste of memory. I wrote my own games for my 3.5k vic20, all in machine code, so fitting it into 32k on a BBC was no mean feat IMO!

[@ChrisM541]

@@frenchmanntube The correct comparison is not 'then to then', as you have done, it is 'then to TODAY' !!! You need to also factor in the large elephant in the room - no internet. Now, take a minute to think about what that means - I'd imagine you should know, though many today might not immediately realise. No internet would make a massive impact today and not only for programmers (no stackoverflow etc(!!!), no endless docs(!!!), no examples(!!!), etc etc), but hugely impactful for the general public and businesses. Now, add in that assembly language (1:1 machine code) is, at its highest level of use, the most difficult language to learn - you won't get anywhere unless you are an expert in the instruction codes, the 'metal' architecture, and remember, zero libraries that do all the hard work for you. Remember also, you need to bank out the ROM kernel to free up max RAM (C64) - so no patching in there. And note, we're NOT talking simple 'hello world' equivalents in assembly. Yes, of course, all games were programmed in assembly then. The overhead of other languages and strict requirement to optimize...'extremely creatively' (speed and size reasons) meant that there was no alternative to assembly. Like today, there were poor games then, too, but then you have the obvious masterpieces...and we return to Elite. I should know, I was a games programmer for some years in the 80's-90's.

[@fuzzywzhe]

It was pleasurable to write in assembly back then. It's not like today where you are mostly interfacing with libraries.

[@i4004]

it might be programming masterpiece in 1984, but it's not really a game in today's sense....

[@planexshifter]

You should have went to one of the same station type. But still, wow, how our tech has matured! Also, that was a SMOOTH landing CMDR! 07

[@apollo12002]

I’m still amazed they got it to run on a computer that had 32k and that was without a dedicated 3d graphics card and some of that ram was reserved for running the operating system. Meanwhile the new version needs at least 6gb ram for the graphics card alone.

[@afdelta0120]

The interior had 4000x the detail.

[@adawg3032]

also at the same time the new version also renders an entire space station and ship interior in 3D with lighting effects, particle effects, shaders… Compared to a spinning polygon with no textures lighting, and the interior doesn’t even exist it’s just an animation then boom your docked inside a wall of text What they had to work with back then was primitive. A 32k in todays age is basically a chunk of garbage since we are at the point where one gpu is basically more than a million times more performance than something in 1984 Our phones have more memory than millions of guidance computers used by the Apollo mission

[@Lupinicus1664]

The original game was a programming masterpiece.

[@apollo12002]

@@Lupinicus1664 It really is.

[@vagabond8201]

im running elite dangerous perfectly fine with 2gb on my GPU, the game is very efficient

[@clamrollvideos]

I mean, you kinda missed an opportunity to go land at Lave 😆

[@StargliderGaming]

Ah, just happened to be where I was at the time. Besides. Being CMDR Jameson in the Original Elite then landing on the station named after myself I thought was a nice touch :D

[@Danko05]

@@StargliderGaming It is indeed...!!! 👍

[@socialmediaisterrible]

I thought it was a pain docking my beluga until i saw what it was like back in the day. We got it easy now compared to that

[@gontmawr5010]

30 years and a lifetime of difference. Imagine what this will look like in 2044!

[@Vladian100]

I think similiar. There is a limit of realism. The look of the games hasn't changed too much in last 10 years

[@kellenbigman]

Imagine all the people who were playing this in 1984, above the age of 30... An just 2 years this game will be 40 years old. How many people do you suppose are 70+ and still playing?

[@blinded6502]

@@Vladian100 AI can boost realism of games Although it still won't do nothing in terms of actual physics and interactivity

[@liviekumori]

We've pretty much hit the limit to realism, but there's a lot of more important things that have yet to be improved.

[@arkosilaura]

Radioactive mutants that survived the apocalypse looking at cave paintings of video games while they shelter from the acid rain.

[@Rigel_Chiokis]

I never played Elite, but I had Elite II on my Amiga computer. The graphics of Elite were rather advanced for that time period as were the graphics for Elite II. Now, Elite: Dangerous Odyssey might not be the most graphically advanced game around but it is still really beautiful! It looks like you shot that sequence in VR, with flight assist off and rotational correction off. Show off! :)

[@VertietRyper]

May not be that good graphically, but it feels good to fly ships in this game compared to other games. It was amazing on console too, even though having more key configs than buttons meant you were in for something interesting. You could "feel" the entry of stations, etc through the controller via the vibration.

[@markwheeler8296]

How many hours of Blue Danube did I listen to back then? So many!

[@rocket2739]

Glad to see the basic principles have never changed. Rating, equipment, status, credits, the station, the radar, etc...

[@theaveragewizard1297]

holy cow....talk about a glow up. ive only recently been playing Elite Dangerous in VR (bought a flight stick and everything specifically for it) and had no idea its been around since the '80s till i was doing some deep diving into things but it just goes to show the technological marvel of gaming evolution.

[@j.d.4697]

My favorite experience in that game was when that white dot hit the white stripe and cause lots of white dots. That was crazy...

[@solrac8673]

as Viktor Reznov said "Every journey begins with a single step"

[@sideshowrob5453]

So, basically just the same game with updated graphics? The FIFA effect! Seriously though... this game is mind blowing. Whichever version. 😍

[@Vanotter]

Still remember seeing ED for the first time and thinking "it's the same game". Amazing how a kid's brain can fill in the gaps (ehm pixels). On that note, Spacebear's "The Journey Continues" is still the ultimate art piece on this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXWWn5eKjaisna8

[@moofey]

Living on a Space Station in Elite must have been a dizzying experience

[@Kreistor]

Yeah, the spin rate kn the original was nuts. I crashed many times into the entry. You bought the auto-lander very early.

[@ytgray]

... which then proceeded to crash into NPC ships that were in the way instead of the walls. 🤦‍♂

[@mookithehamster5639]

I see they kept the AA from the original!

[@thehipinmyear]

Underrated comment.

[@Parable_One]

The main thing that sticks out to me is that the stations rotate in opposite directions

[@jetison333]

Yep i noticed that too! I always use the right hand rule to find out which side of the station has the mail slot in dangerous but that didn't work with the old one lol.

[@vince7207]

@@jetison333 "the right hand rule"?

[@jetison333]

@@vince7207 yes! If you curl your fingers in the direction that the station is rotating in, the direction your thumb sticks out is where the mail slot is

[@Dushess]

we also can use position light to navigate. rear side always have red beacons.

[@j.d.4697]

They should make a show where they have people from the past react to modern games.

[@rrazelp833]

There is one i think

[@TheOriginalSide1]

Yo Albert Einstein check this shit out

[@shabbbsy]

I think you forgot the part in Elite 1984 where you miss the entrance by a few millimeters and explode on impact, then reload your save and try again.

[@RADD93]

I'm loving that retro footage of elite dangerous from the 80s

[@harutogames9204]

This game has come such a long way

[@Geirkztilb]

Literally 1984.

[@venoxidegaming1432]

Now imagine another 30 years into the future

[@Byssbod]

Is that when star citizen is releasing?

[@Danko05]

Nice video... Quite a change in all these years.

[@Alp577]

It could have been the best space sim of all time if they followed the original elite. They almost had everything. - Amazing graphics - Physics - A.I. - Sound design - Scale - Lore Yet they decide to go with EVE style which requires tons of maintenance. So instead of putting effort on adding features and lore, they end up patching problems they've created due to the complexity of a player driven / multiplayer game. So much potential that's wasted on ED. I just hope once Frontier shut down the server, they let us mod elite dangerous.

[@leslieviljoen]

I read somewhere that when they shut down the server they will open source it.

[@Dushess]

If they gonna shutdown servers (not even theit servers) Elite will disappear. Since the generators, the progress - all is stored there.

[@tomphillips8628]

The struggle you would have to go through to line up on the 84 version. Now we can just use autopilot 😂

[@Adrian-dz6gb]

Played Elite on Amiga 500. Mindblowing in this times!

[@aleksandrneprimerov278]

i was a child and played Elite on zx spectrum. game was too good for its time. my games loaded from big 5" diskettes. (it was a modern setup cause most people used audio cassettes with audio tape recorders)/ manual docking was a nightmare so it kinda ruined the starting period of game for me personally. although trading for a while could get you a docking computer so you just pressed C when near the station and docked automatically. another thing that ruined this game for me was inability of my computer to save games :) so got to do games in one run which is bad for a huge game like Elite. but in one of my game versions there was an advanced save game so i could play with advanced military lasers weapon systems and ECM and dockin computer although had to start in the same system every time =)

[@liviekumori]

That is crazy for a game of 1984

[@Kohlenstoffkarbid]

@@liviekumori Not to forget, that Elite was one of the first games, which actually had the possibility to save games on the disk (At least on C64). The game was way ahead of it's time.

[@tzaralexrex]

Who accepted the flyby through solar panel ring? Ban both - operator and pilot!

[@zathary564]

Hehe epic fligjt go BRRRRRRRR *BOOST*

[@cervantes01]

The gameplay loop is the same:)

[@semibiotic]

Not quite. In Elite I: * you cannot evade pirates * you can mine only stray asteroids, and earn couple of credits * you cannot dock being fugitive (as far as I remember) * there are only 7-15 missions in the game * you can beat Thargoid using stock outfit

[@paulpaulsen7777]

Wow- I loved to play Elite 40 years ago. I didn't know, this game exists....

[@RomanYakimenko]

back then station docking was significantly harder, when i run elite dangerous for the first time my first docking attempt was successful showing that i'm already a pro pilot, that's why i still prefer the original

[@tgm9991]

Docking a sidewinder that is significantly smaller than the air lock should not be a challenge

[@FreemanicParacusia]

Try it with flight assist and rotational assist turned off (the latter in your game settings).

[@colbyboucher6391]

I mean I'd expect it to be difficult when you're watching a slide show

[@opie5314]

Very impressive for both time periods

[@compmanio36]

The original didn't even have solid surfaces, still amazing what they could pull off in '84. Most games were text based at this point, still. Zork and the like....

[@elih9700]

The first was safe, the second was wilfully irresponsible. Nice.

[@ATHFShakeZulah]

I loved Elite and there was a really cool Amiga game that came later like this. Don't know why I'm not playing it anymore.

[@arkosilaura]

>starts to lag when you look at some rotating lines Oh man... the good ol' days.

[@nigeltrigger4499]

The frame rate was better on the BBC Micro, but there is no flickering on the ZX Spectrum.

[@VasiaTrib]

by the way, sketchy graphics developed imagination and did not strain your eyesight

[@mrexists5400]

just tone down the brightness

[@semibiotic]

In E:D 3-axis thrusters made docking procedure too easy.

[@moardargons8160]

I never played it myself, but apparently the best OG Elite port is the Acorn Archimedes version. I understand the enemy spaceships have sophisticated (for its time) AI which is missing from the other versions.

[@Tucarius]

I mean... you could have found one of the stations that has a similar design...

[@svendtang5432]

I sat there imagining.. on my spektrum 48k (kilobyte memory ).. Now I have a quest 2 on my head hotas and is voice commanding the landing on planet with light from 2 stars reflecting on its icy surface while geysers shoot towards the moons in the tenuous atmosphere.. Yeah something changed

[@CMDR_CWolfxUK]

Played both, love both. I always laugh when people say docking in ED is hard. They should try the original!

[@stratcat3216]

In addition, we can now use VR :)

[@mumblecake251]

1:50 Why fly through the rings of the station? Because you can!!

[@Parfait133]

So whats the difference???

[@yoonseongdo3303]

that thing be spinning super fast lmao

[@liviekumori]

I'm curious, is ED made by the same people? does it have any connection to Elite, or is it just made by fans of the original?

[@AuxCart]

Same company afaik, but it's been a long time. Probably not the same people.

[@liviekumori]

@@AuxCart I see, thanks

[@bobross2577]

@@AuxCart the company is owned by david braben, who was one of the 2 developers who made elite

[@AuxCart]

@@bobross2577 That's cool to hear. I jumped from "makes" to "programs", though, and was considering active programmers.

[@semibiotic]

You ought to dock to Coriolis station, for proper comparison.

[@AshenAF92]

Still waiting for the Horizon/Odyssey expansions to release for Elite (1984).

[@Vondoodle]

I thought the docking port always pointed the planet ??

[@josh_2230]

I played with Apple//e. So many time died by crash with stations.

[@Baldodeathmetal]

why use a different station type to the original though?

[@darrenmckenna3483]

Just a little different these days!!

[@GenericInternetter]

this made me want to re-install

[@russellperry9902]

Id like to see the latest chatgpt play ED, it could probably make a good fuel rat.

[@zeropanzer66]

you approached it from the wrong side im sure the stations crew were getting nervous with you getting so close

[@sirannikus]

You should have put captions indicating which one was 1984 and which one was 2014!

[@Jpippy97]

I feel like its a lot easier now then it was for the original.

[@SPAAG_1]

well done but shouldn't you have done a modern coriolis because you did a old coriolis but other than that amazing job

[@SaphTheBladeVAWatch]

The frame rate seems to be lower than in '84

[@sam23696]

WHy wouldn't you do this at a Coriolis station?

[@AdastraRecordings]

Okay I'll admit the original has aged a tad, but anyone old enough to have played it on their mate's BBC when it first came out will understand the burning desire to murder said friend for their BBC.

[@leeebbrell9]

You should have used the same type of station

[@mavadelo]

nice landing Cmdr o7

[@lb21a]

y'know i think they changed it a bit ngl

[@TheBamaChad-W4CHD]

Small graphical upgrades!

[@-Gothicgirl-]

Mmh I would take the same space Station type to compare. But why you lower the Landung gear outside? That is silly because it make you bigger for the Mail slot

[@ryiscept]

And still yet to find raxxla

[@grandreefer]

Haha. So good for CMDRs of today to see this. Especially those whiny ones. Lol. Thanks for making the video and sharing. O7

[@yigite.k.294]

i have seen 1984 version and i am blind now

[@alangonzalez91]

You miss BANG! Gunship Elite!

[@Jezato]

Wonder what it'll be like in another 30years, VR sim suits where sleep a bath of RGB gaming force feedback fluid?

[@lawless201]

ya, only 12 more years for the next update for docking

[@grandautismostreams5033]

Looks exactly the same. Now if you want a space game that actually let's you enjoy space. Star citizen.

[@Skipperrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr]

They look the same to me

[@lurkerrekrul]

Watching videos pf Elite: Dangerous saddens me. It has fantastic graphics and looks like everything I could ever want in a space game, except for having a single-player, offline mode. Any game that requires you to be online to play a single-player game is bullshit.

[@afdelta0120]

Bro never knew there was no interiors on the original game.

[@Black_Kakari]

Ah, they have updated the graphics

[@humboldhugoo]

Sad is, that old Elite takes about three years of my life in a great adventuring through galaxy, and New one takes about month testing and trying. After that was deleted and abandoned.

[@Drinksfromtap]

FPS similar to Odyssey in 1984 😅

[@RuiWang-zm2ue]

Technically impressive, though my problem with Elite Dangerous has to do with the vastness of the game. It's the same problem that Battlefield 2042 has. The game is so big that you spend a lot of time simply running from place to place without much to do inbetween. It's just so much more difficult trying to design engaging gameplay when you have such a huge canvas to work with.

[@ninlog]

It gets easier with bigger ships

[@andrewbradley7340]

Honestly, I can’t believe how much worse it had gotten. Like come on. Sometimes there is just too much going on and the graphics now are terrible compared to back then.

[@randydevel]

they added anti aliasing

[@matfly4832]

Prefer the old version, was more innovative

[@EntoSanto]

Auto dock should be removed 😏

[@funnylumpy]

At least you could have moved to Lave system abd docked for real comparison or a system with similar station as elite 1984.

[@carlosincredible5157]

Could of at least chosen a coriolis station as a comparison!

[@aritgirlfoamflinging4816]

Now do it faoff

[@f1del1s]

Noob on vette docking)

[@HHaller]

Without the cool music from the 80ies - really bad!

[@danielstokker]

I wouldnt have survived elite in 1984 🤣🤣 besides rhe fact i was born that year and never got to play this and only played 1 elite game after that only got into elite dangerous in 2019 and when corono hit i went deep into this game even tho im on ps4 i love it man dont care to much for the on foot stuff so no pc for me

[@MetalMe55iah]

Back in the day docking in elite was a bitch with a Kempston joystick, thank god for docking comps in ED

[@StargliderGaming]

You could buy a docking computer in the original 1984 Elite too.

[@megavolt1982]

раньше было лучше