ELITE Fireglaives & Infernal Ironsworn - Chaos Dwarfs vs Vampire Counts | Total War Warhammer 3

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[@Fedakeen]

It seems like debuffing the magma cannon's range, while increasing the Deathshriek rocket's range and damage, would make for a good change.

[@lolasdm6959]

You could just make tha magma cannon super expensive, I like the idea that it's insane.

[@cseijifja]

​@@lolasdm6959 me too , i heavily dislike nerfing aetillery like that , just make it expensive.

[@LuzikArbuzik77]

​@@cseijifja then they would have no cheap artillery choice at all

[@trainheartnet5657]

It never occurred to me until now, but the chaos dwarfs could be a really good counter to undead factions if you spec heavily enough into fire damage.

[@lolasdm6959]

yeah but your goblin frontline won't last as long due to horror.

[@baluranha]

@@lolasdm6959 Won't matter too much when 1 Fire Cannon can remove half the health pool of a T3 Renown unit (cavalry, btw) Meta against Chaos Dwarfs will definetely be aerial spam, get on top of the cannon and finish it first since ground units are heavily punished against them.

[@lolasdm6959]

@@baluranha True but the fire glave shotguns if used proprely can delete stuff like furies. It's like Cathayan ironhills but much tougher. And they don't suffer from mobility issue as dwarves do. So their cav and monsters could sweep aside your flyers. You need some very tough flyers, as the cannons are pretty damn tough in melee. It seems more viable to just have tons of troops and charge. Since their infantry seems to die pretty fast to just about anything.

[@Red13aron]

Well Chaos Dwarves seem like a perfect counter to all the common Vamp Count tactics. Easily able to clear large amounts of chaff. Great holding infantry and spammable infantry. Fire on almost everything in the roster so healing isn't good against them. Monsters can go toe to toe with VC Monsters so you can't just goon squad. Artillery pieces aren't vulnerable because of bull/wolf cav and you can't lock down the artillery because of steam attacks + mass + its effectively a chariot. CDs seem really good for the meta. I'd be curious about the other undead factons: Tomb Kings/Vamp Coast.

[@TheDownrankTrain]

Tomb Kings seem like they would have a better time with things like Ushabti Greatbows and maybe even Bone Giants. We might start seeing more construct play given that Chorfs don't seem super good at killing big monsters

[@xyro3633]

@@TheDownrankTrain ChaD's don't seem to have a ton of long-range options for dealing with SEM's, so even units like the Hiertotitan could be pretty interesting to use

[@lolasdm6959]

Seems like single entity fast units are better against them. Do they have any anti large at all?

[@TheDownrankTrain]

@@lolasdm6959 Nothing cheap. They have no tarpit

[@zaibakk9072]

On paper it seems Chaos Dwarves will be pretty good vs melee factions but a bit weak vs range factions.

[@03Grunt-arrino]

I want to see the Chaos Dwarves fight the Ogre Kingdoms. Haven’t seen them on the channel much lately. Thanks for all you do

[@lolasdm6959]

they should have armored ogre slaves, would help with holding frontlines

[@Daniel_deez_nutz]

​@Lol asdm do you want a black orc uprising? Because that's how you get a black orc uprising

[@lolasdm6959]

@@Daniel_deez_nutz no ogres are super easy, even if you are enslaving them, give them enough food and they do what you ask. Just shove orcs and gobbs for them to eat.

[@TheKolboShow]

​@@lolasdm6959 Chaos Dwarfs don't have enough Ogre slaves to use as cannon fodder. They are stupidly strong and smart enough to rebel, and they eat way too much...definitely not worth it except for a select few specialist roles like loading the Dreadquake Mortar.

[@lolasdm6959]

@@TheKolboShow No not cannon fodder, that's why I said armoured orgres. They have gaint slaves too, and they are armoured when going into battle. I mean orcs and gobbos are way smarter than ogres and are way stronger in groups but they still managed to control them. I mean everyone has ogre mercs, they could trick the ogres into believing they are serving a merc contract that keeps on getting renewed. They are like 3 year olds you can trick them as long as you feed them.

[@bobbys.4904]

Something I was thinking for the empire v chaos dwarf matchup is luminark of hish would probably be pretty good. The inly thing they have that can counter it effectively is bull centaurs and even then like you said you can use demigriphs for that. Then you have a range alternative for taking down the artillery that can’t easily be killer by the anti-infantry focused chaose dwarf artillery.

[@profpwn9446]

If you watch Turin's stream from the other day, you can see him bring the luminark vs chorfs

[@nickaovilches8412]

@@profpwn9446 Hey man, can you answer a question ? a dont have the WH 3, only I and II, And i dont undestand this new type of battles with reinforcements, kinda dislike actually, there is no more "regular"/"normal" battles in WH 3 ? sorry for my poor english. thanks any help!

[@profpwn9446]

@@nickaovilches8412 There are still regular, they are called Land Battles. If you want to watch those Turin has a couple but people like Dahv Plays primarily covers those, feel free to check out his channel!

[@BloodyBobJr]

Magma cannons are so gross, one shot on Varek reavers took them below half hp. And 500 range is crazy, it out ranges all cannons by 50. Can't wait to use em lol

[@NRSGuardian]

Magma Cannon has 450 range, its missile strength is 500 or so. You can see at 9:04 its stats.

[@ethnanboxman]

H A S H U T

[@MustbeTheBassest]

It's time for a new chaos god and his name is John Cena!

[@Pattrickro]

Bless you

[@tmo_117]

@@MustbeTheBassest he exists you just can’t see him

[@Praaguematic]

witness !!!

[@Lightzy1]

Was just enjoying the battle, about 7 minutes in I was like, "Hey, I wonder what the damage values are" .......... .... .. Ouch. Magma cannon doesn't need just a range buff. It's BUSTED. I saw it hit a cannon unit (which should be a counter) and it brought it to half hp with one hit and routed in 2 hits. That's better than a freakin overcast spell and faster.

[@taylorniall5756]

I woke my son up by shouting 'HAHA YEEESSS' when that Mortar hit that Lord mid air. 10:35 - 10:40 Amazing

[@gabrielnasc6322]

why does he have 130 armor and 7k hp wtf

[@aersla1731]

I didn't even know this game had a completive scene D: This is awesome.

[@redshift_j29]

I literally POGGED when the hammer of justice obliterated 3 entire units toward the end of the battle holy heck man

[@alexsitaras6508]

I dont like magma cannons out ranging volley guns, flame cannons, and ancient salamanders(to a lesser extent) be that large of a margin. but murder trains a comin are a nice touch

[@HanaTheSloth]

Chaos Dwarves seem pretty OP. If only OG Dwarves got this treatment!

[@TR-ru7wl]

They will seem less strong when we figure out unit counters

[@Chonicle2]

I really think the Magma cannon needs toned down a little, its kind of mental in its current state

[@Taytorthot]

man each map I see, Chaos Dwarfs just look insanely over statted. The fact the cannon does THAT MUCH, the fact that their infantry is as strong as it is, and their magic is as good as it is.

[@Nickelback8469]

The cannon is really good, but chorfs high stats are offset by their high cost and low speed. Unlike normal dwarfs, they don't have additional magic resist so they'll be even more vulnerable to vortex spells like Dwellers or Pit of Shades

[@edwardfontaine7108]

You'd be surprised that they actually struggle a bit against some factions like the Empire.

[@DionysusEleuther]

that cow is straight out of a red bull commercial lmao

[@masonsudul1643]

Im pretty sure the reason astragoth has so much hp is because like 40% of his body is stone

[@Lukashoffmann94]

And Thorgrim sits on the most defensive piece of equipment ever built and barely beats him in hp.

[@LuzikArbuzik77]

Which should make him weaker not stronger? He is petrified lol

[@pyguyofdoom182]

@@LuzikArbuzik77 He physically can't move, which is why he has a mecha. He basically cheated and gave himself the best of both worlds.

[@masonsudul1643]

@@LuzikArbuzik77 stone is tougher than flesh hence the high hp. Stone caused by magic at that.

[@LuzikArbuzik77]

@@masonsudul1643 turn your limbs to stone with some genetic disease, see how much stronger you are lol

[@majormoolah5056]

Loving the fire and steel of the Dawi-Zharr :D Its too early to make any balance suggestions... but I would like to see the slaves and Hobbos be a bit cheaper. It feels like the Labourers should be priced like Skavenslaves and the shielded Hobbos like Clanrats

[@cl1cka]

Vs blobbing faction (nurgle/vampires) take the RoR tank/train thing that shells nukes.....It absolutely DESTROYS infantry - the shell removes like half the health + there is earthquake going afterwards that slows+dmg the troops further. Also the thing is VERY tanky and can actually be ok in mele. Had a game with it vs vampires and it had 600 kills by the end + was at 60% hp....

[@Dankest-Jedi]

The dreadquake train + a magma cannon would be disgusting. I've been thinking about how good the earthquake slow will be in conjunction with the magma vortex effect. I suspect the two together will be able to out perform a queen bess. And I assume you can raise the unit caps to have one of each in multiple armies in long campaigns (obv not the RoR dreadquake train, so maybe just a normal dreadquake mortar).

[@lolasdm6959]

@@Dankest-Jedi finally viable artillery doomstack

[@zekaiser1695]

Maybe a minor nerf needed to magma cannons and Astrogoth? lol

[@KhorgosKhul]

Bull centaurs needs a look at too.

[@fiveforbiting]

The aluminum monster already looks like he needs a nerf. Like Teclis, he can just be amazing at everything haha

[@ThePaleKing89]

I'm not sure that a duelist lord will work for the vc vs this new meta shift. (perhaps a masternecromancer on a nightmare with wod and going super wide might be a bit more effective :D) It'll be interesting to see what takes shape once everyone gets their hands on the dawi zharr

[@fuchsmichael93]

Would be interesting to see how many Shotgun Shots Ghorst needs to take out the Magma Cannon.

[@SpiritoftheSands]

Have you tried playing around with the other hashut spells like Ashstorm? Would love to see if they are viable at all

[@Frido9090]

Magma cannon seems a liiiiiiiiiiiittle too strong on the damage and range side

[@nathanbateman4255]

Yeah. I think it needs a SERIOUS nerf

[@crisisgear]

Astragoth is large for a dwarf, but definetly not a large unit. Put him next to a chaos chosen or black orc and he won't be much bigger. Also there are way too many large lords in the game (or are better on their mount making them large). I'm glad more infantry lords are being added.

[@ash0736]

he stil should at max have like 4-5k hp

[@callumcochrane7759]

The problem is that he has the hp and speed of a large unit while being classed as infantry sized. Either change him to a large unit or drop his speed to mid 40s and hp by 1000-1500 if you want to pretend the dude in the big mech suit is actually infantry.

[@KorsAir1987]

@@ash0736 agree

[@mmorkinism]

Picking vampires or nurgle vs almost full fire damage on attacks faction in chaos dwarves is questionable at best.

[@turinRTS]

Nurgle actually does great vs chaos dawi

[@NOVA_299]

Damn, I love how much content you've been pumping out lately, can always count on you for quality and quantity!👍

[@ElSayyidCampeador]

Cheers Turin, always great to see your content

[@sginrummy88]

i love how they added a fire dominant faction. its much needed

[@Aetherion_]

Ngl that magma cannon looks like a mobile queen bess

[@caseypittman9950]

I wanted to see Gorduz on his wolf!

[@aspiringmarauder666]

have you been using the orc thralls at all in MP? I haven't really seen them used in MP much in the youtube content I've been watching

[@Phatcaulk69]

You didnt lie, you played the votes

[@turinRTS]

It was going to be he, but I had to re-record!

[@dhaenir]

@@turinRTS Good to hear you didn't just ignore the poll result, that would have been a bit sleezy (and unexpected). But technical difficulties are what they are.

[@reeceshugrue6167]

Chaos Dwarfs really do seem like just a direct upgrade from the normal Dwarfs. Cavalry, monsters, all-round better artillery and magic. Really hope the normal Dwarfs are the first race to receive a Lord pack, they need a rework and some roster additions. Fingers crossed for Thunderbarge, golems and crankguns(atleast for high-level engineers)!

[@turinRTS]

They for sure have many advantages, granted, regular dwarfs I'd say hard counter some factions that chaos dawi struggles with.

[@user-br4qp4pw2o]

@@turinRTS I dare to say all of the Warhammer 1 races will get the Champions of Chaos treatment

[@Dramn_]

Should dwarfs get like a slow cav unit? Like dwarfs mounted on big mountain rams or something

[@lolasdm6959]

Slayers are more than good enough

[@charlesman8722]

The only thing that the vampires fear… the dread moo

[@spartan662501]

The magma cannon should have the range of a fire cannon and at least be priced the same at minimum (though it should be more). Please CA, you created a super cool faction but it is painful to see such incredibly OP units mop up every comparable unit in the game.

[@harvbegal6868]

I think the magma Cannon is going to get whacked with a big nerf bat in the next week or so.

[@EyebrowsGaming]

Felt like the VC lacked enough of an air force to get on top of the CD backline this game. A few more Fell Bats or an extra unit of Vargheists could have really shut down the CD artillery and turned the game. With the Empire vs CD match you recently posted, Karl Franz happily dived on the double Magma Cannons and wiped them out, after which the CD seemed to lose a lot of their damage. Just my perspective of the two most recent CD games.

[@logical1399]

All chaos dwarf artillery are capable of defending themselves against weak units such as fell bats with aoe steam attacks. They would most likely not be effective at shutting them down entirely, only stopping them from shooting for awhile. Vargheist could work tho.

[@TheDownrankTrain]

It is nice to see Vampire Counts having a hard counter

[@MrPenguin4538]

The only faction that don’t have pure advantage in land battles against counts are infantry green skins and skaven. But both those factions have SEM and other units that kite/out dps any healing

[@WPTheRabbitHole]

definitely nerf that magma cannon thing.. let everyone have their fun early.. but absolutely nerf that ridiculous artillery gun

[@florians9949]

I do agree that it needs to be nerf a bit. That thing shoots too far for the damage output.

[@ClayChiang]

Nice video!

[@Zashzila]

Looking mighty overtuned. Guess I'll wait and see.

[@ilovemeat2625]

When can we expect some info on balance changes?

[@joshuacollins9346]

Kadai Fireborn seem terrible. Being banished basically at 50% hp means I can't see why you'd ever bring them over Bull Centaurs. They really need more leadership or an HP buff to make them last longer.

[@jamrocks464]

Will we see a faction war around Chorf release?

[@darkchylde3525]

where do you guys read the patch notes?

[@AK-lq8ig]

Yay the Chorfs finally won!

[@AK-lq8ig]

@Malignard There might be some on streams that I have no seen but individual battles I have all seen have been losses, some of the brutal.

[@lorenzogoroni]

So do they have the classical chaos hell cannons?

[@TR-ru7wl]

Yes!

[@Cloud9vegas1]

How do you resummon?

[@1998topornik]

Another counter to undead scourge!

[@saschaganser9671]

Chaos Dwarfs looks like CA needs money. Put the best together from all existing. Good monsters, Nasty skulkers, some bestman cav, dwarfs artillery. That`s why you can sell the DLC for 25$, because everyone needs the overpowers jack of all trades faction.

[@shiroamakusa8075]

It's not just the range on Magma Cannons, it's also the fact that they seem to always hit bullseye after bullseye and destroy infantry units with 2-3 hits. Can CA maybe for once let go of their massive boner for ranged damage?

[@simonhogg5476]

The cannon puts skeleton units into crumbling with a single shot at 500 range and nearly wipes RoRs in 2 hits, its pretty imbalanced at the moment.

[@YM-zf8mt]

don't they seem a bit powerful ? (the Chorfs i mean)

[@user-br4qp4pw2o]

Vampire Counts dont need range units everyone sayd. It will be ok they sayd. If they dont give some siege and skele boy archers. Then all the future matches between VC and ChD so f_cked up!

[@sealteamsesh8742]

Elite cav brought to half health from one cannon shot. Nice more chaf spam games

[@lordcrekit]

Astrogoth and magma cannons are so strong it's not even interesting to watch the fights in this state. It's just those 2 units stomping everything.

[@turinRTS]

Just wait ;)I'll show you some solid counters to them soon

[@leonardbrazil5497]

Would be nice for either a dlc pack or a race pack to bring back some flying monsterous infantry it’s such a cool unit type but there’s like only 1 in the entire game

[@johnsnow5125]

the Fireborn attack animations look kinda borked

[@Mythantor]

Seems like Chaos Dwarfs do everything normal dwarfs do but better.

[@turinRTS]

Dwarfs hard counter empire, but CD struggle vs them, def some weird differences

[@lolasdm6959]

@@turinRTS Dwarfs are more defensive, chaos are more glass cannons it seems like.

[@hieuphungminh6690]

Nah, their infantry is inferior.

[@lolasdm6959]

@@hieuphungminh6690 They do more damage than dwarves

[@realhumanbeing3599]

​@@hieuphungminh6690 thats what I was thinking. that and that they lack long range missile infantry like quarrelers and thunderers

[@TehGnomeh]

Spicy Dawi SPICYYY

[@RawCauliflower]

Why do the infernal guard have big pony tails? I have not noticed this on other dwarf units

[@callumcochrane7759]

Because they're fabulous?

[@couchpotato8729]

I would love to see CA move towards multiplayer balancing either as a separate thing from campaign or entirely based around cost changes. I'm always sad when they nerf fun things (e.g. Gorgers) because they overperformed inn multiplayer.

[@Zaskow1]

Didn't domination of VC in multiplayer end with Corpse Cart nerf? I find this faction mediocre at best now. Also if they are so strong why we can't see a lot of videos with them?

[@callumcochrane7759]

There are few VC videos on Turin's channel because most of his content comes from tournaments and VC are almost universally on the ban list for most players. Its the same reason we're rarely subjected to hellstrider scum, because no-one wants to play against op factions.

[@Zaskow1]

@Callum Cochrane is it still valid information about OPness of vc? What do other pro-players say? Slaanesh is another very powerful faction, but it's more common in videos. In this video vc had like 0 chances vs. chaos dwarves.

[@callumcochrane7759]

@@Zaskow1 they struggled so badly because C Dwarves are more or less a direct counter to VC. Their blunderbusses and artillery are amazing at clearing swarms so zombie tide is out, you can't dive artillery with fell bats becaus the artillery is a 200ws chariot, glaives and gw bulls counter cav and vargulfs attacking the gun line and the VC regen is neutered by all the fire damage. There's also the factor of any dlc comes with stupidly overtuned stuff to encourage people to buy it and its balanced later so if this match was repeated after the next patch to CD I'd imagine the results are the same but its a much closer thing.

[@Draconas]

Magma cannon gonna need some heavy nerfs it looks like

[@mcthunderclap]

Yeah CD’s look overloaded as fuck. Excellent chaff, ridiculous artillery , bull centsurs and k’daii fireborn are insane, castellan is just a straight buffed engineer, and even their sem’s are quite strong. They need cost increases across the board for a lot of their units. Really the only thing that’s “weak” about them is their range on their infantry ranged units but they hard as fuck

[@patrickwilliams7695]

My guy most of their whole roster is already several hundred gold more expensive than their counterparts in other classes. They haven’t been exclusively winning in Turin, or any other faction’s videos.

[@techelitesareadisease8816]

Lol no. They look like a b tier faction. No normal cannons (can't arty duel very well), no 140 - 160 range missile inf other than likely very bad hobgoblin archers which cost a whopping 525g, and their mid tier stuff has been priced a solid 200g more than their dwarf counterparts, and are only very, very marginally better. They are going to be good into rush factions, and countered fairly easily by any faction with normal cannons. Or Lil Grom. Ogres are up in the air, I'd have to see how chorf arty does against monstrous targets. If a Magma Cannon can't easily kill leads, then that MU will be hellish.

[@jackmcmahon7520]

K’daii are insane? What have you been watching. Chaos dwarfs seem well balanced. Astrogoth needs a nerf for sure as does the magma cannon. Probably Bull centaurs too. Everything else is fine. Not to mention it looks like any faction with decent artillery is going to give them fits.

[@str0fix]

Nah. Chaos dwarfs are unreasonably strong due to their wild variety of units

[@Nickelback8469]

Have you watched the stream or Turin's other videos with the chorfs? They lose plenty and have weaknesses (limited air force, bad at artillery duels, limited skirmish cav, etc)

[@callumcochrane7759]

No they're only op units are Astrogoth and the Magma Cannons. Once they're fixed Chorfs will likely be in a good place. They have elite inf and artillery designed to crowd clear that can't really be dived except by heavy ap SEM. But their shooting gets outranged by everything unless you spend 1300 on the Ironglaives, their heavy cav is slower than Harvey Price and have no skirmish cav worth mentioning. This is also the first battle I've seen where they didn't get bullied by top tier SEMs, and thats because a large portion of the army funds were allocated to that specific task with 2 glaives, the gw bulls and a Taurus devoted to hunting the lord and goose

[@TheChaosNova]

VC being a top tier faction after being repeatedly trashcanned because of MP lol. yeah maybe theyll still be okay in MP, yall just ruining the faction for us in SP though.

[@Blakenblitz]

I might be alone in this sentiment but would love to see less domination gameplay and more of the regular battles.

[@golum247]

I would like to see 2v2 again with new faction out it would be nice

[@KhorgosKhul]

There's other channels that do exclusively land battles, thus is the only one I get to watch domination. You should try those channels.

[@saidtrad9986]

If they nerf chaos dwarves, nerf them in PvP not campaign, always found it stupid that they nerfed some units to the ground just because of PvP. Peronally i dont care about pvp in total war and having some units changed because of ladder is frustrating.

[@turinRTS]

They don't really seem OP tbh, magma's are just a bit overtuned

[@jacobs2388]

@@turinRTS and probably those blasting charges too, no?

[@TheDownrankTrain]

I reckon a good way to handle it is if they are going to nerf base stats they also increase Red Tree buffs to compensate. Probably good for the overall campaign experience, so that a couple of magma cannons cant just blam all the challenge out of the early game

[@TheDownrankTrain]

The Magma Cannon is a problem of internal balance. It is far better than the other options out of the gate

[@SlaaneshChampionMako]

If you think that balance doesn't matter in campaign you're insane. Units should perform at an appropriate level of internal balance, not just be as cool as possible. We have to play against these in campaign too, and I'd rather they be internally balanced so it doesn't feel like shit to fight them in campaign.

[@WPTheRabbitHole]

a bit annoying having both factions with the exact same unit markers :/

[@richardsylvester4518]

I don't know what it is but Im not feeling the chaos dwarves. They seem to be just copy paste of other units all jumbled up. Even thier campaign mechanics are stripped straight from other factions. There's nothing new. Its a bit lazy and overpriced on CAs effort.

[@raggedy3759]

Those are their units and mechanics from the tabletop. The dlc team is the only good part of CA