Elmers End, From Beginning to End

This tram terminates here.
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[@stryke-jn3kv]

That riff on the Fresh Prince of Bel Air was amazing and you should feel very proud

[@terrylong8894]

Yeah, and it was completely seamless. Mad props

[@ryanjcole]

And for it I begrudgingly give Jago my thumbs up... and move them to the top of the list of the next patreon when I have funds available.

[@DavidDewis]

I’m questioning if that was the only reason he made this video, after coming up with that. Lol

[@TransCanadaPhil]

I loved that part!

[@amtrakmidwest4830]

Love the "wabbits" pun in the video!

[@Pesmog]

Yep, the link to 'Elmer' Fudd 👍😁 In Jago we trust.

[@allangibson8494]

Enough fear, uncertainty and doubt…

[@phaasch]

Before the railway, it was vewwy, vewwy quiet there.

[@hairyairey]

​@@PesmogElmer J Fudd, to be precise!

[@stephenlee5929]

​@@hairyairey ehm? J as in Jago, no can't be. 😊

[@PokhrajRoy.]

Not even 30 seconds and I’m CACKLING at “Why did his end need commemorating?” 😂

[@cigmorfil4101]

Not to mention an area for hunting wabbits....

[@TheFrogfather1]

Duck season!

[@Sophiebryson510]

How did he come to an end? Was it sticky?

[@richardvoogd705]

Those wascally wabbits!

[@neville132bbk]

"There's a divinity that shapes our ends Rough hew them how we will." Hamlet V.ii

[@michaeljames4904]

You’ll notice uncharacteristically that Jago’s voiceover is, _“Vewy, vewy quiet!”_

[@emjackson2289]

ITS DUCK SEASON!

[@DoubleACbg]

@@emjackson2289 😂

[@simontay4851]

Wabbit season!

[@samuell.foxton4177]

Another fresh and princely tale from the not-tube

[@peterjohncooper]

One of your great talents is turning information into Story. Thank you for your efforts.

[@dodgydruid]

I used to work in the massive avionics factory next door Muirheads prob the last huge factory left in south London before migrating to a small industrial unit in Penge, my late father was D grade relief signalman at Elmers End latish 70's before E grade at Wimbledon A and F grade at London Bridge, he did a lot of overtime too and was booked out to work Chislehurst, Swanley, Farningham Road, Gillingham, Rochester, Cuxton and the lines down to Tonbridge and also as far west as Effingham Junc. He quite liked the relief work from Elmer's End, disliked Wimbledon because of the cross training with what he called the amateurs and toy trains of LT lol

[@Desmaad]

What's the meaning behind those "grades"?

[@michaelwright2986]

My heart leaps at the news there is a place called Effingham. Where are the limericks?

[@atraindriver]

@@Desmaad There are different grades of signallers - pay grades, essentially. The more complex the signalbox they work, the higher their grade and the higher their salary. It also forms a promotional ladder for signallers. There's a wide range of workloads in signalling, from a rural signalbox with one train every couple of hours through (historically) to the manic boxes at places like Waterloo and (today) the workstations at the Regional Operating Centres (ROCs).

[@jyoules9833]

Another excellent video, Jago, thank you. Addiscombe was not just served by a shuttle in about 1960 or so, as I recall catching a train at Clockhouse intending to go to Eden Park but ending up at Addiscombe instead. Re the name Elmers End - wasn't there a restaurant review with the classic line "Geographically, this establishment is half way between Elmers End and Pratts Bottom. Gastronomically, it is about the same."

[@highpath4776]

finally top marks for that shot toward the end of the tram and train departing to their next destinations, classic cinematography

[@frglee]

A rainy day in Elmers End Had me low and down did send I viewed the morning with alarm The Hayes branch line had lost its charm How long, I pondered, could this mood last? But the age of miracles hadn't passed, Mr Hazzard had just been there, Soon, in the drizzly Elmers End The sun was shining everywhere

[@neville132bbk]

"A foggy day in London town Had me low and had me down I viewed the morning with alarm..." etc

[@frglee]

@@neville132bbk 😁 Got me!

[@radagastwiz]

As a North American the name Elmer's evokes an adhesive company - their PVA glue is ubiquitous in schools and craft settings.

[@ZGryphon]

They also do a nice line in carpentry glues.

[@Sim0nTrains]

Very nice video. Didn't knew there was plans to extend the Trams into Elmers End itself.

[@johnmurray8428]

Another great video, thank you. The commemoration of Elmer’s End. Brilliant!

[@AndreiTupolev]

Can't think of Elmer, or his End, without thinking of a 1950s American housewife with a perm and big glasses saying "Now Elmer, I thought I told you to mow the lawn".

[@Romartus]

I would think Elmer was the brother of Wilma Flintstone.

[@roberthuron9160]

Elmer's End,has been one of those station names,that has intrigued me,since I first read of it,years ago! Thank you,Jago,for filling in a very large gap in my knowledge 🙏! The South Eastern was,like its counterparts,the LBSC,and the LSWR,trying to get revenue from any source! But considering how few people and industry there was in the early 1800's,it's amazing how much the the railroads impetus had on the surrounding countryside! Over here in the US,a similar case,can be made for Coney Island,and Atlantic City,as both areas,literally owe their existence to the railroads! Atlantic City,was laid out,and given its boundaries and street pattern,by the railroad,but the city fathers,divorced themselves from their parents,now the former greatness is reduced to the shadows! They really never learn,do they! The old saw is,"IF ain't broke,don't fix it"!! Thank you 🙏 😘!

[@LeoStarrenburg]

Alan A. Jackson wrote 'London's Termini' at the end of the sixties, it was the first book I read on transport in London and laid a solid foundation for the wealth of information that followed with the arrival of the internet. Somehow I always refer back to his book when transport in London comes up 60 years later, he wrote of St.Pancras that it's future was far from secure ‘obsolete as an hotel and useless as offices'... and just look at it now.

[@malcolmbacchus866]

I have a copy of that on my shelves as well. It's a very good read as well as a reference work.

[@muzza9575]

As informative and entertaining as ever Jago. I cracked up at the "hunting wabbits" remark and as much as I love your "Cheerio" sign off I was secretly hoping for a " That's All Folks" 😜 Thank you for another great episode!

[@neville132bbk]

In the lovely Annette Hanshaw's sign off phrase, "That's all."

[@spitfire1962]

Strangely enough, I was passing through Elmers End whilst driving today and pointed out to my wife where Elmers End bus garage use to be, which I’m sure she really wanted to know. Suffice to say Elmers End had good transport links for a long time, including a sizeable bus garage, as well as the Green being used as a turn around point. My eldest brother worked at Muirheads electronics factory in Elmers End and my eldest daughter lived in the house that the founder of Muirheads once lived in. It has a plaque on it to commemorate his living there.

[@IndigoJo]

The "Woodside and South Croydon" branch is oddly named, as although it reaches the southern part of Croydon, it reaches the Oxted branch line which leaves the main line just south of South Croydon station. It passed through the old Selsdon station (now closed; not actually in Selsdon) before reaching Sanderstead station (not actually in Sanderstead). If the intention was to reach Brighton or the South Coast, it could have done so via the now-removed lines south of East Grinstead and Uckfield, but unless they planned to actually connect Sanderstead to the main line, it could never have been a competition for the LB&SCR on the main line.

[@kgbgb3663]

Yes, I did a start of disbelief when he said at 2:24 that the new branch went to South Croydon. But then I realised I was mistaken in hearing that capital "S". The line went to south Croydon, the place, not South Croydon, the station.

[@genericfootyfan]

The Fresh Prince bit was amazing! 😂

[@ElmerCat]

A great name! - If I ever visit London, I'll be sure to visit this station.

[@ShedTV]

As a student the 289 Elmers End bus used to pass by my bedroom window. As I rarely went anywhere other than into Croydon I never gave any thought to where or what Elmers End was. Now I know.

[@martynthomas7486]

The closest video to home for me- now for one on the delights of West Wickham! (It's very interesting!)

[@GNTel313]

The funniest start to a Jago Hazzard film yet .....Elmer & his End and those pesky wabbits ...... ooooh Matron 🙂

[@starchildluke]

Some of your best writing in this episode!

[@hughwilloughby8590]

I grew up in EE, and the local legend was that at the Green was a local gallows, and a Highwayman named Elmer was the first person hung...

[@fabrisseterbrugghe8567]

So many stories have other stories connected. It's comforting to know that you'll have new videos weekly while they're being told.

[@andeegreen]

Wabbits AND Fresh Prince rap?! That’s a rare treat! Thank you Jago!

[@DoubleACbg]

I had worked for a certain riverboat company in Pittsburgh for 25+ years, and when I was initially hired I was interviewed by a Captain Elmer Schmidt

[@baystated]

WABBITS! minding my own business watching a Jago Hazzard vid and I nearly snorted my breakfast. And then the "by then it was too late" tombstone of 3 wooden piles "Addiscombe Railway Park". Lovely touch.

[@officialmcdeath]

A quick look at the map of London Boroughs will show that any extension of either the Elmers End or Beckenham Junction branches would encroach on London Borough of Bromley territory - Bromley is very keen on not giving its locals reasons or opportunities to shop in Croydon \m/

[@joshuabessire9169]

Propose to expand trams to Yosemite Village. It seems far, but by tunneling is should be quick work. Just make sure to turn right at Albuquerque Junction.

[@AndrewG1989]

The London Trams (formerly known as Croydon Tramlink) could of extend to Biggin Hill where it would end at and to have a new tram stop at Biggin Hill. I have been on the Tramlink many times especially when it first opened in 2000. Strange to see how South London has its own tram system than other parts of London that were planning to have trams including North London and East London.

[@atraindriver]

Tramlink could have, but why would it? Biggin Hill has a population of roughly 10 000, which doesn't make it a significant traffic objective. Even the airport is no longer a traffic objective as scheduled flights are not permitted, only general aviation. In the provinces Biggin Hill would likely struggle to maintain a single bus service running hourly rather than the five red bus routes (all running at least half-hourly) that it has.

[@AndrewG1989]

⁠True. But Biggin Hill would of benefitted from having Trams.

[@GeorgeChoy]

Elmer always surprises us.

[@vexmet]

Living on Elmers End Road in the 1960s near Birkbeck station I can remember the smell from the sewage farm if the wind was in the right direction.

[@kgbgb3663]

*wrong

[@teecefamilykent]

Cracking video sir, loved the Elmer fudd and fresh Prince jokes lol.

[@jesshumphries3745]

I was hoping for a 'you are the end to my Elmer' - hahahaha

[@andrewmarch7891]

Thank you for this detailed narrative. Keep up the good work!

[@WalksInCamera]

A pretty good interchange for rail, buses and trams tbh given its so far out of central London. Certainly feels like a zone 5/6 station even though its zone 4. Its a shame Southeastern cut the Cannon Street service as it was always handy having a direct link into the city.

[@8equa1sD]

Did anyone else notice that this is probably the last time we ever see a 313 in one of Jagos videos (1:46)

[@hughs591]

Very interesting, as always, but I have to say my favourite moment was at ~ 02:22 when we see a shot showing a crow nonchalantly walking along the live rail; no flies on him !

[@JagoHazzard]

Ah, the Silverlink livery! I remember it well.

[@AndreiTupolev]

It's perfectly safe as long as it doesn't touch anything else. That's why birds can perch on ultra high voltage power lines

[@hughs591]

@@AndreiTupolev yes indeed, and I've heard of people running along the live rail and jumping off but I wouldn't care to try !

[@MrGreatplum]

Absolutely fantastic, Jago, you wascal!

[@malcolmbacchus866]

I remember a review of a Kent restuarant by Clement Freud in Punch where he said the restuarant was "geographically half way between Elmer's End and Pratt's Bottom and gastronomically about the same."

[@tsimeone]

Haha fresh prince references. Another good video 😊

[@highvoltageswitcher6256]

🥈🧐

[@heidirabenau511]

​@@highvoltageswitcher6256 Once again, wrong, look under newest.

[@highpath4776]

This is where they check trams with wheel flats, they go Fudd, Fudd , Fudd.

[@Romartus]

You missed a mention of 'Bedlam' as it now located near to Elmers End. Worth a visit.

[@symy92]

"Wabbit"....good one! Made me laugh, as well as your question, "Why did his end need commemorating?" Lol

[@thexalon]

A video about Elmers End? I'm glued!

[@grahamstubbs4962]

04:58 That's an absolute shocker. No architects have admitted responsibility.

[@grahamstubbs4962]

@@76_SPZL I've spent my entire life ignoring architecture. But just since the first lockdown and with Jago Hazzard and the London Transport Museum YT channels I've begun to have an appreciation for it. This particular station looks like a Storm Shadow test target. I'd pay good money to see that.

[@highpath4776]

@@grahamstubbs4962 Ironically the classic style of LGOC Bus Garage (rapidly disappearing) was bombed by a V1 at Elmers End. Replaced with a garage post WW2 in the buff brick style like North Street, Romford, deemed redundant at privatisation of LT Buses , demolised and replaced by the flats on the road opp the tramlink terminus

[@grahamstubbs4962]

​@@highpath4776 Very unlucky to get hit by a V1, having that 'point it in the general direction and see what happens' navigation system. Still, as ever, no fun to be on the receiving end.

[@highpath4776]

@@grahamstubbs4962 If there was an aircraft factory (tesco site ?) they were about 200 yards out

[@uk-martin4905]

It came to me a short time ago that the awful station building at Elmers End was of the 'CLASP' design.....a type of construction very much loved by BR in the 1970s/ 80s because it was cheap. It was alarming to see that such buildings have survived, unlike the sturdy Victorian building which preceded it.

[@seanbonella]

Fresh prince and warner brothers thrown in, brilliant Jago

[@jgodfrey546]

Brilliant! Quite the wascally weference 0:35 in, Jago. 4:04 - 4:15, can't see Beck drawing tube maps out by the pool, though...

[@SkepticalSteve01]

Ahh, Spring weather in South London, just the way I’ll always remember it!

[@chrimbo90]

Loving the 4:05 tribute to legendary rapper and one time station master, Will “Hay” Smith

[@dougmorris2134]

Hello Jago, I lived in Elmers End from Jan 1963 until 1972 and used the two stations, Birkbeck (to West Norwood) and then Elmers End (to Charing Cross). The down side canopy had a large gap due to the Luftwaffe, which remained until the rebuilding after I left the area. The up line from Birkbeck (station now shared with the Tram Line) via Crystal Palace low level, a station worth a visit as it retains a lot of the original architectural features. Sadly the high level station closed in 1954 and demolished. Two industries, Twinlock and Muirhead were close to the station at Elmers End, their sites are now taken by a supermarket. I wonder if anyone remembers the shop J&E Morris at 51 Upper Elmers End Road ?

[@TheWolfHowling]

4:11 Well done there Mister Jago Smith. You are the Prince to our Elm er

[@nickbarber2080]

Chances of that..only yesterday I spent longer than I would have wanted waiting at Elmers End...a station I've used perhaps half a dozen times in my life. I remember it as a four-platform station (two bays) and a triple-junction...also the interminable rebuild of the road bridge. Extensions are intriguing...into Beckenham would have made a lot of sense...

[@philipfischer1612]

another quirky station south of the river due to rail junctions was the layout of Raynes Park on the South Western

[@ianmcclavin]

Crpydon Tramlink hasn't expanded since its inception 23 years ago (apart from an extra platform at Wimbledon). Expetiments were made with diverting alternate Hayes trains to Beckenham Junction after New Beckenham a few years ago, but this was dropped in favour of restoring a more frequent service to Elmers End to connect with the trams. Potential for expansion still exists. (I never ddi get to ride the Woodside - Selsdon line, the remains of Selsdon Station is still in situ just north of Sanderstead). Trams now use part of the old alignment through "Addiscombe" tram stop and the tunnel, which is now between Sandilands and Lloyd Park, on the New Addington btanch.

[@aelfweard9242]

One of my "why didnt they do that" thoughts over the years has been to extend the DLR from Lewisham to the old Greyhound Stadium site between Catford and Catford Bridge and bring up the Tramlink from Elmers End, slot in a bus station and you have one major public transport hub. But the site is comprised of flats now.

[@highpath4776]

@@aelfweard9242 could build a tramstop in the ground floor of the flats

[@ThatScottishAtlantic57]

Great Vid Jago! Me at 0:09: Don't make a dirty joke, don't make a dirty joke.

[@heidirabenau511]

🥉 By the way, this is a family friendly channel.

[@makkari1]

Yes! "You are the junction to my branch line!" I finally guessed one!

[@jess.hawkins]

Lol that Fresh Prince reference was perfect! 😂

[@dambrooks7578]

I always thought that Elmer was a relative of Ponder and after a family disagreement they both went off to different parts of what would become the greatest city in the world, sorry I meant London, resulting in both Elmer's End as well as Ponders End 😅

[@AndreiTupolev]

Their posh relative, Howard, built a house in the developing suburbs to give E. M. Forster something to write a book about

[@msg5507]

Could be worse, there's a station in Melbourne called Bell. Perhaps fortunately, it isn't a terminus.

[@YesTomCullen]

Jago I've had to stop the video immediately after the fresh prince rap to type this. Magnificent stuff.

[@Lazyguy22]

Want services to Circuses that outpace the bus? Escape the hubbub in suburbs with minimal fuss? Hop on the brown line, and frown lines will vanish and smooth On board Elmer's Tube! If it's going to be on the Bakerloo Line, it's got to have a song. It's practically a rule.

[@richard-mtl]

Yay more cute trams! Thanks for this video.

[@legojenn]

Interesting, I live in a suburb called Aylmer (note original spelling) in western Quebec that used in independent town until it was decided a few decades ago that multiple city councils in the region were redundant. Anyhow, It had streetcars that came from the centre of Ottawa Ontario 15 km away until 1947. Today, the regional bus service is considering implementing a tram. How things repeat in different times and places.

[@paintedpilgrim]

I'd anticipate any extension to the tram from Elmers End would only come as part of an East-West Link from the Bakerloo Extension to Hayes. But as you said that is at the moment a long way off, but would improve transit links throughout the area and could result in 'densification' around transit stops in the area. After all that us what seems to happen when you give an area a DLR link and it certainly wouldnt be a bad thing in an era of 'walkable' and '15 minute cities'

[@Spydominator]

"Pressumably ideal for hunting wabbits". Hilarious, I thought I was the only one thinking of Elmer Fudd. 😂

[@zachmakesstuff9866]

Fun, fun, fun on the Croydon tram, tram, tram

[@chianasgeek6730]

0:03 "Today, I'm on the trams again." You really need to kick that habit, @Jago Hazzard lol 😹

[@JagoHazzard]

I could quit any time I like! I just need to get to IKEA a lot, that’s all.

[@ThomasTrue]

I just KNEW you had to get a Bugs Bunny gag in somewhere. Naming as a result of railways could be quite bizarre. Just down the road from me once lay the last stretch of tracked of the Edmonstone Waggonway, Edinburgh's first railway. Built to transport coal, it opened in 18l8. However it was 4 miles out of the city centre, and when the Edinburgh & Dalkeith Railway opened in 1831, the waggonway became redundant. By the 20th century it was just a farm track, and because people had walked it for over 30 years, under Scots Law it was a Right of Way. With the growth of car ownership, cartographers marked it "No Road" on maps. Local people who walked it all called it "The No Road", right up until it disappeared under a new University of Edinburgh development in the 2010s.

[@shawnli4746]

funny story, i was supposed to go past elmers end on the national cycle route 21 today, somehow missed it completely

[@highpath4776]

"The Potential to Extend would be a Useful thing to have". at our age Jago, one can only wish

[@highpath4776]

Talking about competing tram routes to an advert saying "this is the way"

[@JelMain]

Not far away was another village, Pratt's Bottom, served by a local bus service from Orpington, whose headboard read "Pratt's Bottom (Circular)"

[@zombiefreed]

Yes MC J-Go!! (although if the current is different it’d be AC J-Go) 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@alejandrayalanbowman367]

Hi Jago from Spain. Thank you for another interesting oddity on the rails. One wonders which end of Elmer, they were trying to commemorate.

[@highpath4776]

His Upper End ?

[@robertwilloughby8050]

"In the centre of Elmer's End?" Ooh, err, missus!

[@joebleasdale5557]

When your GP shows up 5 times in a Jago video. Guess it’s happened to every Londoner at some point 😂😂😂

[@Rheilffordd]

I am liking this video purely because of the use of the word “wabbits” and the Fresh Prince intro!

[@JelMain]

One further element is the development of an outer ring in the bus network. Being buses, this will be impossibly slow, but given the success of the North London Overground, now extended to meet at Clapham Junction, as a step outwards from the Central Line, the creation of an Outer Circle becomes more attractive: we already see the first suggestions of it in the Barking Overground

[@baxtermarrison5361]

I imagine that the lack of ambition to extend beyond the crwwent, err I mean current, end of the End will only come to bite them in the a**s at a later date as commuter demand increases.

[@UncleBoko]

Just 5 minutes walk (longer of course if disabled or awaiting heart surgery) will take you to an entrance for the lake in South Norwood Country Park.

[@williamgeorge2580]

I hope to see you at next year's Eurovision.

[@luisstransport]

Great video Jago

[@heidirabenau511]

🏅 🏆

[@Sophiebryson510]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🥇

[@eastlancsesteem]

Elmers End tram stop opened the same day I was born. 😊

[@telhudson863]

Whenever I see Elmers End, I'm reminded of a restaurant review that I read years ago. "Geographically, this restaurant lies between Elmers End and Pratts Bottom. Gastronomically, it is the same."

[@PavlosPapageorgiou]

7:25 What a patchwork of lines to get here!

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

one urban-myth told in Croydon said that the original etymology of the name involved a certain Saxon Lord known by the name Ælmar Eihndal or later Sir Elmr Ehnd the grey-haired... who had build a small wooden palisaded Palace in Elms Marsh green... later, all the remains of this was destroyed during the construction of the gun-foundry at the turn of the 19th century... however, the local school's-principles office contained a small museum with jewelry and other treasure from the site (the principle being a noted Antiquarian) which existed until early 1917, when the lots were sold to private collections as a money-raiser to support the war-effort... not sure if any grain of truth is buried in this, or whether that's just a fancy tale... but...

[@ianpatterson6552]

It’s Elmermentary, dear Jago!

[@dodgydruid]

Man, I am terribly homesick for my niche o' south London... stuck down here in crunchy carrot Dorset ironically bang on where they filmed Only Fools and Horses episode "A touch of glass" and being the only fool in this town with a 3 wheel van who happens to be a south Londoner AND his middle name is bloody Charlton (a story behind that too)... we do have a station Gillingham, another irony as its on the line I used to service the trains on at Waterloo back in the day and how the Waterloo to Exeter service has degraded with awful awful 159's replacing the mighty class 50's and class 1 or 2 coaching...

[@bingbong7316]

Rose tinters there mate. I grew up with Thumpers of every kind, and I've also suffered the frequent failures of sick 50s on a Waterloo-Salisbury commute. 159s were a bit of a blessing in many ways, plenty enough horsepower (unlike a Thumper) and pretty reliable.

[@brick6347]

Wolf from the Gladiators used to have a gym next to Hayes station. I'm a fountain of really pointless knowledge.

[@roderickmain9697]

There is something about the design of station buildings in the 60s and 70s that leaves a lot to be desired. Mostly, they look like plastic boxes that somebody threw away. Oxford station used to have an impressive Victorian building but it was demolished and replaced with a plastic box. Quite depressing really. At least they've had a go at it more recently and built something with more style. Still not on a par with the Victorian building but way ahead of the plastic box. (Last time I was at Stafford it was still a plastic box). South of Sutton, Belmont's plastic Box has been removed for an automated ticket machine and a shelter.

[@michellebell5092]

I’m always surprised why London (Croydon) Trams are used elsewhere. I think Trams must be the future, low maintenance and infrastructure etc.

[@justinrovers1]

THAT WAS AMAZING! Never doubt your instincts on your videos, the fresh prince thing was amazing… just get my wife’s name… never mine…

[@apolloc.vermouth5672]

I sense potential for some collabs with Simon Roper, whenever ambiguities regarding old place names crop up!

[@klauswaugh]

4:54 Have you ever considered doing a video about the CLASP system of prefabricated station building across the Southern Region of British Rail (and a couple of Western Region stations) throughout the 60s and 70s?

[@Big.Al.3]

Very in enjoyed film.

[@Olleetheowl]

Scwewee wailways… loved it.

[@bobcosmic]

I arrived at the platform late and missed the 12:00 tram courtesy of Jago Hazzard