What's The Best eBike Motor? | Industry Expert Reveals All

[@stevejones7956]

Thanks to everyone for tuning in so far. I just want to reassure you guys that Pete in fact DOES answer the question. Please watch to the end. It might not be the answer you were expecting.

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

I had a feeling it was the Bosch 2 was the best! XD

[@boblatkey7160]

I got 4400 miles out of my Brose motor and then sent it to EBike motor repair before it did anything wrong. The motor was flawless. And I had it rebuilt with upgraded sprag bearings and it is sealed to a higher degree than factory original. 👍

[@goingbonzo5923]

Very interesting and informative. There are a few repair shops in the USA, and that is good news! Also wouldn't it be great to start your own repair shop. Easier said than done I am sure. 🤔

[@temax]

No, he didn't.

[@donolinger6904]

@@temax So you're saying that he didn't answer the question?

[@davemeise2192]

I like what he said "It should be repairable" A great concept and something manufacturers have moved away from recently. I don't just mean ebike motors but everything! They need to make everything repairable for our sake, the environments sake and for the repair industry sake.

[@bryanthorne3474]

preach it! Every company, I dont care if they make laptops or bikes, or cars, or farming equipment, they've all bending over backwards to try to make it so ONLY THEY can do your repairs (for top dollar), and then once they make key parts "end of life" you're basically forced into buying a new one. We're creating mountains of waste. The most eco friendly thing you can do is maintain the things you already have.

[@petrokemikal]

Yeah but theres more money in you NOT being able to repair it... Thats pretty self explanatory as a buisness model.. Make more money in repairs yourself as the manufacturer instead of the customer repair it either themselves for free or some other dude , where they dont see a dime from it..

[@Videomorgue]

Without laws and regulations requiring repairablility, it will never happen. The big money is in replacement, not repairs.

[@Alex-uh1mj]

Bosch spend millions making dure they are not. They are the worst

[@richardkaz2336]

Bosch gen 3 performance line cx just over 12,000km no problemsat all, still as smooth and quiet as the day I got it. It never gets pressure washed. I move the cranks one knotch on the spline every 6 months to even out partial wear on the crank bearings and clean and replace marine grease on the bearing seal cover every 3 months.

[@alikabok-es4sx]

The best ebike motor service center on the planet. No BS, they know their business. Outstanding interview!!

[@nicksfishroom915]

I'm a big fan of bafang, bbshd. Simple to work on and parts are widely available. They may not have all the bells and whistles, but they're solid.

[@LordHolley]

Amen. No, they don't gel with the posh crowd, but nobody will keep up. Great motors.

[@ThunderMuffin6969]

i got the M610 1kw, great power and easy to use and maintain.

[@14er1]

Watched the entire video and you didn’t answer the title question. Wouldn’t even say who had a repairable motor. We all know about the water issues. Being way too careful not to upset any manufacturer. Just tell the truth.

[@Chriswales]

Always the same when I see his face on the screen. Lots of words but no real information.

[@alexbiketester]

In defense of Jonesy, they do at the beginning, A gen 2/3 Bosch is the toughest. @@Chriswales Remember EMBN is a paid for video channel where brands pay to be featured. It's not an independent channel in that sense. They are also somehow a preferred partner with youtube.

[@mray8519]

They did answer straight up in the first minute; Bosch Gen 2. I appreciated the dialog on motor characteristics, reliability, that all but Shimano is repairable, hence the motor repair shop.

[@ktmkirby]

Should be a politician.

[@StuartPlumbley]

This is why I stopped watching some time ago

[@dragoclarke9497]

I don't know what some people are whinging about, I found the video very informative.

[@nickclarkuk]

Since watching these videos I’m not using the pressure washer at all on my bike except for tires. I now have a hand pump washer to apply water and use brushes and clothes . Letting the mud dry and brushing off the worst also works . Hoping to save the motor and keep frame bearings in good order . Nice to know this company exists if the worst happens . I can’t help the occasional pedal strike !

[@ducksgoquackirl92]

nobody ever mentions bafang motors, ive a conversion on a Nukeproof Scout 275 hardtail that has a Bafang BBSHD on it, has 35000km on it atm with all original parts. just gets a regrease and a new paper gasket every few thousand km. its been thru hell too, even submerged fully under water multiple times. 160nm torque!!

[@Flyingaceful]

I also have a Bafang motor, so far it has amazed me. Best bang for the buck!

[@LordHolley]

Man, I'd love to see that! I love my Bafang motors!

[@robhaskins3068]

What did Brose know in 2018 with the Aluminium 1.3 super quiet,, smooth powerful feel that they still don't know now. Simply add x ring crank shaft seals and some positive internal air flow from a mini computer fan to dry it out. But big forces from pedal strikes are always going to cause bearing damage. E=Mtb²

[@Megabear90]

Proper seals make a world of difference. I don't think drying it out would work, as the water bonds with the oil and dirt inside. What would help is having a mandated maintence cycle with good accessibility. Everything wears down and all moving parts need service

[@robhaskins3068]

@@Megabear90 The idea is to have the mini fan constantly running slightly pressurising the inside when the motor is on and also when you wash it so no moisture will be sucked in from cooling of the casing or changes in altitude. Would be easy to try, plus a few moisture attracting crystal bags." Crystals " now does that sound a bit "heeby geeby"

[@jeremycox8261]

After years working as an e bike technician I can answer the question! Bosch is the best motor, followed by the Dyname, Yamaha, Shimano and Brose(the Brose has a long history of component failure in spite of it being a very popular motor because of its ability). As far as adjustments go I am of the opinion that if you can alter the demands of the motor to accommodate for the desired range necessary to complete a journey, or a type of ride, then all the better and I have found the Bosch battery and motor combination the best in this regard.

[@stevo184]

Really? And yet you can't even spell Bafang?

[@jeremycox8261]

@@stevo184 Yeah really! And that’s your response to pick up on a typo?

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

I would agree with you, your motor layout is spot on! However, my point at the end was more based on what is the best motor to own. Having the best made motor on the market can be very frustrating for people when it eventually fails or wears out, and has to be thrown in the bin because it's not repairable. As I say at the end, the brose may have it's issues but these can be elevated with an upgrade and if anything at all fails or wears, it can be simply replaced or fixed.

[@embn]

Hi Jeremy, and thanks for insight...so just to be clear, you believe Bosch to be best because of it's adjustability?

[@jeremycox8261]

@@embn Just my opinion, of course, Bosch tops the list with reliability, power delivery and efficiency. I have observed great range from the battery in Bosch equipped bikes. Emtb mode is a bonus as well. I don’t own one but I’m convincing myself I probably should😁

[@NipponRider]

So basically they were saying don't buy a Shimano motor since they are non repairable ( seemed like they were being very careful not to name names). My EP8 crapped out at 8000km and just outside of warranty, Shimano still looked after me and gave me a new motor which I appreciated and have now done 2000km on, but I don't have much faith in the longevity of the ep8 motor. My next bike will be a Bosch. I replaced all the bearings on my frame at 8000km and they were all getting worn. Having the ability to change bearings on your motor is a must.

[@NallePu83]

The average lifespan of electric bicycles today is between four and six years. 8000 km is OK. I have 1600 km my first year.

[@JBMADNESS]

They do have a full EP8 and 8000 bearing kits on their website so it seems that you could rebuild it out of warranty for $120. I have only had my first speed sensor go bad now at 1000 miles, bearings feel great still. 2 friends have had their bearings go bad within warranty and Shimano USA replaced their parts quickly with no impediments.

[@SafferCA]

​@@NallePu83I have 20,000kms on my Bafang.

[@jonnywalker169]

Great video moters are getting better but they need to make the wiring and switches more waterproof and not so flimsy why is it a jet ski can go under water but you can't hose your E bike down?

[@sd5458]

Because in a greedy rush for market share, all of the manufacturers just put on any motor they could produce or find, rather than engineering something from the ground up that would ensure longevity. In my eyes any bike motor made after this point should be fully waterproof. Mine is

[@FrancisLoma]

​@sd5458 if I may ask, what motor do you use?

[@jonnywalker169]

Bosch

[@oligopol1336]

I guess in a jetski saving 100 gramms is not as important …

[@actonblue2012]

I have followed Pete since he was doing repair videos in his shed. He is brilliant. Has he managed to find away of repairing Shimano motors? I believe the torque sensors were problematic.

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

We used to repair many Shimano motors, but as we became more professional, we needed at least the basic software from Shimano. But, they had no interest at that time in talking to us. Every other manufacture saw the benefit in what we could do for them and supported us. Shimano didn't want to know, so sadly we had to stop supporting them and their customers. If they ever decide to speak with us, I would be happy to listen. If everyone with a Shimano got onto Shimano and demanded they allow for sustainability with their motors and to allow and support people like us to fix your after warranty motors, I am sure Shimano and the bike manufacturers who use their motors would see a lot more sales.

[@CarkeekW]

Right at the end Brose is the winner for upgradability and spares and considering it was always quiet and powerful , ill take it as a winner. New updated belts and seals fix the old issues. Those motors were always great when running but also had owners running if they failed, now there is a long term fix a LEVO or Kanevo is looking pretty good esp with the Belevo app and Raptor chip

[@romand123]

Any idea if the most current version Brose is what's spec'd on the current generation Levo?

[@CarkeekW]

@@romand123 the current Levos , not including the Levo SL are running the Brose 2.2 motor with 90nm , but it is more powerful than the older 1.2E and 1.3 said to be 90nm at the time . The 2.1 had belt issues in some cases , but im not aware of 2.2s having issues unless you ride it like a submarine or are in a desert with ultra fine powder like dust you should be good to go.

[@1972mdc]

This series is fantastic and insightful. The overhaul cost is surprisingly low and his experience as to why they fail and the most reliable is amazing. Doing maintenance and repairs on my cars I have seen the new tech advancements but dropping of quality/durability there as well

[@embn]

Thanks 1972. We've got more coming

[@1972mdc]

Got another idea for you (if you haven’t already)…assume 3k, 4k, what bike do you buy (used or new) and what spec to get. If new would love to understand used options as well - Matt

[@FlyingScot911]

I am assuming you are only comparing OEM motors. Personally I absolutely love my CYC Motor Gen 3 X1 Stealth on my DIY ebike. The best thing about DIY is the ability to mix and match frames. Currently on my third build based on a beautiful Soma Riff frame with SRAM Code RSC brakes, DT Swiss hybrid hubs, and moped rated 2.1" 27.5" Schwalbe tires. With over 20K kilometers and zero problems I'll stay on this track. Bike comes in under 55lbs and has the best pedal assist. With 1500 watts and 150 nm of torque I can climb anything. Race mode in the country and street mode in the city covers all my power and speed limit needs wherever I am. And easy to change my street mode settings when I travel across the border from 500watt Canada to 750watts in the US. Gotta say it is way safer on an eBike when you can travel closer to the speed of vehicles. I've saved financially eliminating vehicle insurances and maintenance on my van. The savings are more than my cost of my builds.

[@SupraTompan]

This channel never touches or mentions DIY e-bikes with motors like CYC, Bafang or Tongsheng. This channel is about legal, factory e-bikes.

[@19774p]

@@SupraTompan неправда, упоминаются бафанг, ведущий канала даже ездил в Китай на завод бафанг и показывал всё моторы и велосипеды и сам катался на китайском велосипеде Маркхор по горам.

[@SupraTompan]

@@19774p Sorry bro I don't know Russian.

[@mcplutt]

@@SupraTompan I just clicked on the translate button 🙂

[@dirtyoffroader2093]

So rain, puddles, mud and moisture are the main culprits for killing eMTB motors.. talk about not fit for purpose here in the UK (for 8 months of the year 😂) Can you imagine off road motorcycles having engines that let water into the gearbox.. No, neither can I, because they wouldn't be fit for use and nobody would buy them. Ebike motor manufacturers need to sort it out.. never mind lighter motors.. build one that can last a few Welsh winters.. and summers 😂

[@e_mtb]

It's the same with the knocking/rattling noises, imagine a motorcycle or car company is releasing a motor, that rattles half of the time and not just a few bad examples, but all of them by default, because they "don't know how to fix it" and release it anyway on the market. Would be a tough battle to sell these products to the customers, on the emtb market the people seem to be way less critical and accept major flaws, even if the prices are insanely high for what you get im comparison to a car or a motorcycle... as long as the brands will get along with this quite well, there will not be major improvements, unfortunately.

[@kodithebear]

@@e_mtb Yamaha motors are silent

[@8thsinner]

If you haven't already found them the bbshd is pretty well tested in the UK with very few issues. At least from my researching perspective, i've seen plenty of them being used, and abused in the mountains with very little if any problems. As long as it's fitted to the bike properly. Depending on the bike that probably still includes the lekki chain ring, a chain guide, some good derailleurs with wide range cassettes and good hydraulic brakes. etc.

[@sd5458]

My Aventon Ramblas is ip67 rated thru and thru what you think of that ya bobbin?

[@linemanap]

😂 why are all the cheaper motors from China all water proof and the ones on the high end bike aren't. Star unions motor ip67 rated and they have a video of their motor running in a fish tank.

[@redrover9988]

Mechanical whir is very soothing. I once owned a 1982 Datsun ZX that when in 5th gear at 70 mph and above had a very pleasing mechanical whir I liked very much. I am waiting for my first eMTB to be delivered which will be end of April, and hope it has a mechanical whir.

[@JoshuaDomoslai]

I’m glad I’m in Southern California to ride. Pretty much dry year round. Even after hard rains, just give it a day or two and the sun drys it out perfect. No issues for water in motors

[@DavidSmith-wy5js]

A great insite into Ebike motor reliability issues by Peter , lets hope the manufacturers are watching this. Its time that all manufactures took sustainability & reliability issues seriously & made spares available for there motors. Its not rocket science keep the water out as water & electricity do no mix, a £3 seal can save a £700 motor .

[@kerkiraz]

Planned obsolescence is a manufactured engineering con of the 21st century.

[@stephendenagy3396]

I am happy with my gen 2 Turbo Levo. Nearly 3K km. Motor and battery are healthy. I have recently redone nearly everything. The only worn out part wasn’t rear rim, otherwise I shortened cranks, and got a swept 12 degree sQLab handlebar, SQLab wider pedals, better SQLab seat. And SRAM GX 10-52 12 speed with GX wireless shifting. I feel this bike will last for years. If the frame goes, I will buy a frame set and swap in my new parts. I have less fear of obsolescence than a standard bike. And with so many bikes out there, I have no fear of replacing or repairing the motor if needed. Very satisfied.

[@JohnRushworth]

My Moustache is a 2015, had a new Gen 2 motor after being drowned. Plenty of torque, geared down from standard and still runs well. I reckon a Pete service will see the motor outlast me!

[@robertadair6612]

I loved this honest discussion, and I want to hear more pushback on the ego stroking lightweight emtb push from manufacturers, some of us can except people recognising we are riding an electrically assisted bike! 😉

[@richardharker2775]

The last part was the best. Repairable. My wife's Gazelle motor lasted 8,000 commuter K's before it imploded. The dealer stated that was a good run??? $800 dollar replacement plus labour really hurt. Our next bikes started with a Bosch drive train. 10,000 K's later they are still like new.

[@irnieracing]

Is the Rocky Mountain Powerplay Dyname 4.0 repairable? Are there even parts available for customers to purchase? How much does a full replacement motor cost?

[@tedturner9054]

The short answer is that none of them are reliable as the old gen 2 Bosch. The currently available motors will not last as long and to get the most repairable motor, which is the Brose. The bonus was the discussion of the even smaller and lighter motors not being rugged enough for mtb use and the weight saving being negligent. I got alot out of this as I was previously considering a lightweight low power system.

[@InfiniteMishaps]

If repairability is the name of the game. I'd like to see a video lining up most repairable to least repairable even non repairable. If it exists I'll gladly watch it. Really the motor I'm mostly interested in is the Yamaha, I own one. ;) A video showing older super reliable ebikes and emtbs alongside new possibly less reliable ebikes would be great! So us noobs know what to look for when buying. Battery tech comparison would be cool too. I'm sure there has been heaps of changes in that. Would be cool to know what to look for when buying used ebikes. An EBike classic series giving history would be sooo cool and you guys have all the knowledge to do it!

[@bobbybecker80]

Excellent video and great info. As an aside, my eight year old DIY BBS02 has functioned great (in dry socai) with neither maintenance nor problems and AFAIK can be rebuilt completely if/when necessary.

[@garryhaines3066]

Most interesting video, i have just bought a Haibike CF12 2022 with a Yamaha px-x2 so far so good like the way it works. Hope it is one of those repairable in the future

[@embn]

Great motor...and repirable!

[@Trailchaser-NE]

I agree, Bosch CX gen 2....mine had it's first service at nearly 15,000 miles and the cost of the service is less than £300 (less than some people have to pay for a cassette on an Amish bike) - that's great value I think and provided you keep an eye on chain/cassette/chainring wear, the bike is bombproof. And that's all year use in the UK, rain, snow, water etc.

[@tombowman4489]

This video had some really useful information but you need to watch it all to get the very best most useful information because it comes right at the beginning and right at the very end!

[@Johngott1971]

I have a haibike with the Get 2 motor. I decided to upgrade the seals on the motor, and while I had the motor out, I decided to open it up to check for any contamination. Luckily I was ok, but I did notice that the grease inside wasn't really doing anything as it was all stuck to the sides of the gears and no longer being used. Any moisture that gets inside can attack the bearings gears and shafts !. So I have put about 80ml of fully synthetic motorcycle oil in the motor to see what happens.. Thinking that everything inside will have some lubrication as the oil gets distributed around. Over 6 months on after putting the oil in, there has been no oil leaks, the motor sounds just fine, and it actually feels to run freer ! in another 6 months I will open the motor up the have a look, and if all is good, I'm going to look at drilling and taping the casing to put a couple of grub screws in to allow me to do an oil change on an annual basis.

[@stuka78]

You should open all the top motors, study the innards, compare bearings and seals, … give us a true and analytical review

[@embn]

We have did you not see this one? kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKjRl4eFesh-bZI

[@stevejones7956]

@anonymousone6075 I was simply trying to be helpful. Pete does talk bearings and seals. So just to be clear you want to see images inside all motors?

[@reneegregoire1712]

@@stevejones7956 Steve - it was an excellent series - don't cater to the whiners - they always find something to whine about

[@sometingwongwai9679]

hands down Bafang M620, buy parts anywhere, use a laptop charger if needed, 160Nm of power, unrestricted mode code on manuals first page, has a throttle with top speed 75Km/hr.

[@joshamery7537]

What bike have you got it on?

[@sometingwongwai9679]

@@joshamery7537 Dengfu E10 carbon frame, any Dengfu carbon frames are around 700 USD,

[@Mvees]

Honda 750xl has 94hp so if you’re talking 140nm perhaps step it up a notch to a honda

[@sometingwongwai9679]

@@Mvees i think your HP and torque assessment for a motorcycle may differ greatly from the crank torque applied at 170mm for an ebike. do some old school physics and see what the torque at the crank shaft for a 70kg person using gravity,

[@sometingwongwai9679]

@@Mvees you trying to convert HP to torque?? not KW

[@unclejohn5012]

I stick with bafang simply because you can buy parts and do repairs yourself. All the main brands seem to lack any aftermarket part support when parts need to be replaced.

[@markcliffe7]

my last 2 bikes have had Bafang BBS02 built by myself, just splashed on a Cube with Bosch smart system, torque sensing is good but brick wall at 15mph in traffic is a real pain and starting to regret my purchase

[@superwag634]

Or to tongsheng with inbuilt torque sensing. Had both and both are excellent and I do more kilometres than 95% of people as I do deliveries on bike

[@SafferCA]

Absolutely. Easy to work on and service. Very reliable.

[@deanrwilson]

You can't stick with Bafang unless you buy a bike that the Bafang motor fits LOL.

[@deanrwilson]

@@markcliffe7 That's the speed limit all motors have that

[@Bazza1968]

Ha! Never expected that the Gen 2 CX would be top.... My KTM has this- bought Dec 2018 and Feb 2021 Pete rebuilt it after 2500km...it's just come back from rebuild number 2 at just approaching 6000km total.... NDS bearing always goes because there's no way of properly sealing the crank/crankcase unlike the DS(Unfortunately it's Achilles heel), and it's never seen a power washer.... (And ALL my time on the KTM is in the Cairngorm Mountains- I road bike 10,000km a year too).... I think as he said in the previous video pedal strikes do a lot of damage too. But I'm happy with it still, and a rebuild cost is well worth it, both batteries are original and due to meticulous storage and use are both giving the same range as when new.... and the EX1 drivetrain is still good (replaced the cheap 11/13/15 cogs at 5000km) as I change out the 16T sprocket and chain when it hits 0.5%.... Heavy and maybe over-engineered the motor may be, but one day this will become a "commuter/shopper" bike to get to the local shops in Aviemore and at that point I'll put on full huge mudguards to keep all water off the motor and it's off road days will be over so the motor should last longer between rebuilds!!

[@buddycats1]

i bought a aibike with yamaha motor after seeing an interview with an ebike shop owner who said he hardly ever gets returns with ebike that have yamaha motors. he stocked all sorts of ebike with loads of different motor manufacturers.

[@StrongmanTaylor]

I love my Brose.....but I really like the Bosch as well.

[@davidcarlos186]

Good discussion. I learned something! Deviating somewhat from the central question: the physical (mechanical and electrical) design characteristics of a motor and its repairability/maintenance are important, but the motor is part of a larger system. The controller is worth at least 50% of one's opinion. Where are the sensors placed? How many sensors? Does it have a torque control loop (i.e., closed loop) or just a speed control loop? Does the battery meet your expectations for charging and discharging? Is the battery capacity compromised (has it been too hot or too cold)? All these factors affect motor performance, how it feels, and one's satisfaction.

[@pierluigi56]

Speaking about retrofit, I agree it does not make sense since motors of different generations change in size and feature. But upgrade should be possible. Let's take the Bosch Smart System and the previous gen4. They are basically the same motors, same size and specs but gen4 is not upgradable to Smart System. This will force users, if they want newer feature, to buy new e_bike. While it is possible to upgrade all other component to newer and better products prolonging bike life. On the other end I agree with comments in the video when is stated that most of the time users are not changing motors mapping every ride but possibly a couple of time in motor lifetime. Personally, using Bosch CX motor I am fully satisfied with Tour+ and emtb modes and do not really need the possibility of changing motor behaviour.

[@iLuveKatsup]

IMO, the problem with current EMTBs is the non standardization... from batteries, mounts, power adapters, connectors, batteries, etc. For example, my '22 Rise has a different charging port from a '23 Rise. They are incompatible and my '22 Rise is close to obsolete. How long can Orbea or the port manufacturer continue to make parts for an old model (only after a couple years)?

[@embn]

It's not an excuse, but phones, cars, laptops, even mountain bikes you're looking at various standards, proprietary tools and different chargers! E-MTB's are fitting in that respect rather than standing out. But you're right, in an ideal world 1 cable for a hundred bikes would be great.

[@user-ga42]

@@embn It's not an excuse. But I'm not paying $1200.00 for a mobile phone.

[@iLuveKatsup]

@@embn A current Android phone will use a USB-C connector, no matter the manufacturer. In my example, it is the same bike manufacturer - Orbea, same motor manufacturer - shimano, and the same model - Rise. It’s like having a different nozzle at the gas pump between a Porsche GT4 and a GT4 RS.

[@robvanduren761]

Interesting point at 9.00 time stamp. My Yamaha PWX2 was pulled apart after 4 years. Only one or the 2 main bearings was slightly rough. Replaced both main bearings and the fibre drive cog while it was open. The guys build mostly brose and asked if my motor was ok because it made so much more noise. I said its sounded like that from new and its normal.

[@Hybrid600]

Bafang BBSHD: the tried and true tank of mid drive motors. Easily serviced by just about anyone with mechanical skill and parts are readily available. And 160 nm to start with.

[@RobStriegel]

Opinion on the Dyname that comes on the Rocky mountain ? Have had my Altitude powerplay about 8 months or so now. it is straight up badass. curious on your build quality opinion.

[@irnieracing]

I'm curious too if any parts are available and how much a new Dyname 4.0 retails for? The dealers don't have a piston kit for it and are looking into it for me. Waiting...

[@basengelblik5199]

Affordable preventive maintenance is part of reliability. Suspension preventive maintenace is too expensive, that's why I ride until failure mode. Ecomonically the better solution. P.s I never had a suspension fail on me because I ride Fox and avoid Specialized brains. Regarding motors ... haven't been able to kill one yet. Mostly riding the old gen 2 from bosch. The beast just won't die on me.

[@richardharker2775]

Note to Peter. My wife's Gazelle had an Impulse motor that destructed after 8,000 kilometres doing commuting work. Dealer said that was a good run. We went with Bosch anything after that.

[@ebikescrapper3925]

BBS02, parts available, can get the battery recelled, fits a standard frame and settings programmable.

[@bobbysnow5478]

Thanks for the video…all this comes down to if you can your bike repaired and updated in the area that you travel.

[@lozetchells9164]

The spray on the back of the car is a good point - I killed a Bosch CX doing that. I tried using a plastic bag but it just gets destroyed. Must be a marked for a transit cover with neoprene and velcro or something

[@user-ga42]

See my comment above. I've used cling wrap whilst transporting to cover areas of potential water ingress and around levers and calipers to keep crap out. I forgot to mention you need some gaffa tape as added security against wind speed removing the cling wrap. Been there. Done that.

[@lozetchells9164]

@@user-ga42 yeah I've tried cling film too but it disintegrated. Maybe duck tape or gaffa tape will help, I'll try that 👍🏻

[@magnusskallagrimsson6707]

I don't ride eMTBs but found this interesting - thanks. I have a Brose on my bike and took a bit of flack for it. I have had no real issues with it after a year, and feel better about it now.

[@MarkOfArgyll]

Having just ordered my first emtb [yay for Halfords easter sales] , actually my first bike of any kind in over 40 years, I found this interesting. I think I get it - it's the same with just about any tech in that there is no such things as "the best". What there is is the best for you and your bike in a given situation, would that be accurate?

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

Spot on!

[@Sug_ref]

Man I freakin LOVE my rocky with the Dyname 4.0 motor, never had an issue, I do occasionally play with the power % settings depending on where I'm riding.

[@robertgifford1678]

I have a 2019 A70 and a 2023 C90. These bikes get very little play Ebike clips like these. I think RM doesn't really pay attention and likely doesn't let content providers demo their bikes much. The bikes are great but try and contact them and wait and wait and wait.

[@jaythomas5399]

I just ordered a 2024 instinct a70, can't wait 😊

[@rmvace]

I have a dyname 3 motor on my Rocky, been flawless. I have 5200 km on it with 95% riding on the mountain in all weather conditions and 0 issues.

[@Jordan-lw4ef]

We are in a disposable society there is a compromise between small lighter components or heavy gauge parts. (weight) as time goes on all parts are being watered down, they’re designed to fail. Bottom line is all components in the motor should be heavy gauge with double seals metal casing circuit board coating etc it’s all the other parts on the bike that should be ultra light and strong . As long as the motor is heavy gauge .

[@MarkJones-re3po]

I've a bosch gen4. It's been submerged up to the crossbar, 1500 miles, 70% in muddy canal towpaths and bridleways and it's been rocks solid. Can't fault the performance of the bosch combo of battery and motor.

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

Will be seeing you soon 😄

[@MarkJones-re3po]

@@Ebikemotorcentre 😂😂😂😂 I've got another years warranty, but at least i know where to come now 👍

[@malva1547]

Great informative video provided by experts! 😊

[@davehunt6998]

I noticed you talked about moisture why cant there be a vent tube from the top of the motor up in the frame to prevent or minimize moisture issues around the control board.

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

Some motors have small one way breather patches to vent the motor. It does work and the motor will dry over a long period of time, but if water has got as far as the internals of the motor, it has already been through the bearings to get there, and this means the damage is already done, 4 to 6 months later, the bearing will fail.

[@peterlundgren8867]

Always nice programs and thank you for at least recommending the Brose to be the most reparable motor on the market.

[@johndonnelly9832]

So Steve the answer is what is the best motor ?

[@embn]

Pete answers that, did you miss it? Or do you mean in terns of performance, features, speed, size, weight, torque?

[@johndonnelly9832]

Overall which in your opinion is the best

[@inzana2]

Great video, the first KZbin video I have seen that points out the glaring fact that the big push to make smaller lighter motors is making them less reliable. Personally I don't give a flying f*ck how heavy e-bike motor is, I just want it to be indestructible.

[@CyclingAdventuresUK]

Fascinating video! I just wish, barring law suits, that you could provide more detail on each of the motor brands. I have a Shimano and waiting for the day it gives up the ghost.

[@netposerx]

The sad part is the waste that will pile up as these ebikes age. The bikes are so customized to the specific system so in 10 years the bike will be useless since you can't get a motor that fits in that bike. Most analog bikes can be updated/upgraded with modern parts.

[@cameratool]

Don’t all the bozos change the bolt pattern and case shape every year?

[@camwells9726]

Yeah but analog bikes have still aged in a different way , if I get on a mtb from the 2010 - 2014 era , the geometry feels all wrong

[@netposerx]

@@camwells9726 But it's still going to ride exactly like it did 10+ years ago.

[@camwells9726]

@@netposerx yep get that , but I guess my point is people want better now and aren’t interested in those old bikes , so in a different way they are still obsolete anyway .

[@netposerx]

@@camwells9726 I get that but a bike from 1972 will work regardless of if people want it or it has old geometry. An ebike just won't work as it's mostly a piece of tech. Like a Blackberry from 2003. There's no network to support it and you can't just go buy a new battery.

[@Huldru]

I’m all about the TQ motor.

[@siriosstar4789]

@huldru i'm all about the Sachs/BMZ motor .😎 it's a pity these motor almost never get tested . for a 250 watt motor , they are the top two most powerful motors out there but we never hear anything substantial about them .

[@kevb8828]

Ok but what motors are repairable! Lol be awesome to get a prevention series going! Eg the plastic bag tip is awesome!

[@alanread8468]

Hi Peter, I've got a Cube reaction hpa pro 500 2017 model, it done very little, but I have had a speedbox 2 chip fitted for a while, I want to have a bosch diagnostics on it to find out motor and battery status, will bosch diagnostics know I've previously had a speedbox 2 fitted and shut down the system making the bike then unusable,, thanks Alan

[@Almajtek]

As an Mechatronics Engineer, I will have to disagree with Peter. Broken gears and bearings can be easily replaced or even manufactured by 3rd party companies, but electronics is another story when your motor brand is Bosh: very closed system, too much protection... Sorry but if a brand don't allow me to fix my own motor that I bough then it's not my motor. I rather have a motor that is relative reliable and it's easy and practical to fix than to have a German made, very reliable that is closed to me.

[@embn]

You disagree that the best motor is one that can be repaired??

[@niccots]

@@embn yes because what you mentioned as very "cheep" full motor overhaul for 200 pounds is in fact just all bearing replacement and still there is the main board electronic and sensor which is unrepairable or unreplaceable in some motors. Manufacturers just don't offer main boards as spare part and you need to find electronic soldering repair specialists, but still in some cases you will need new main board, which is not available as spare part. You can maybe use second hand one, but the you need special equipment to pair it with sensor or so.

[@FernandoGarrido-sb9gt]

@@niccots The board is unreplaceable on Bosch Gen2 because it's polarized to the specific stator of each motor. Being an engineer, you should know that. I'm not.... I have 4 Gen2 motors, still the motor I want, and Pete just made the case for my opinion. Willing to dip my feet on the Pinion a couple years down the line.

[@LeSoarien]

Owning an unrestricted Greyp eMTB, unfortunately brand out of business now but the well unknown MPF motor still working like day#1 after 7000km, never been serviced. I never wash my bike, only brush dry mud! What about durability thoughts on (un)restricted motors?

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

De-restricting does not affect durability. You are not putting any more power through the motor, and the motor is designed for higher speeds, it's just restricted for the European laws. Not that I am condoning this of course :)

[@jcheco59]

I think owner serviceable motor will be the future, I really hope to get my hands on a Pollini motor in the future. 😊😊

[@unclejohn5012]

Bafangs are user serviceable. Aftermarket parts, can get parts from aftermarket vendors and plenty of videos and forums going over repairs and general maintenance.

[@jcheco59]

I still don't trust the Bafang setup, it would be great to see more info about their motors technology.

[@unclejohn5012]

@@jcheco59 All widely available online, plenty of info, teardowns and mods/ reviews. They make low power 250w middrives right up to 1500w 160nm middrives.

[@p2e]

does adding a speed de-restrictor to a motor dramatically affect the wear on cogs too?

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

No. You are not putting any more power through the motor, and the motor is designed for higher speeds, it's just restricted for the European laws. Not that I am condoning this of course :)

[@p2e]

@@Ebikemotorcentre thanks. how about if increasing sprocket/chainring size, specifically talking about bosch cx performance gen 2, from factory small cog (14-16T) to larger (18T+)- is there extra non-recommended strain on the motor when changing these? or even comparing gen 2 with gen 3 (i assume the major diff with gen 3 was to allow the use of standard chainrings), or can standard chainring sizes (28+) be fitted on gen 2? i’m just overall really curious what options i have to improve/extend the lifespan of my gen 2, other than replacing the whole motor with a same gen. are the different bosch generations somewhat interchangeable? can a gen 3 at least be directly dropped into a gen 2 frame (to possibly solve any limitations gen 2s have using standard chainrings) would be great if down the track bosch made available some retrofit kit to upgrade my gen 2 to some latest gen

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

@@p2e Fit a 17 or 18 tooth front sprocket, it makes an amazing difference, stops mud being packed down the back of the sprocket by the chain because the sprocket is deeper, also helps you use more of the rear cassette allowing this part to last longer. And no more spinning out! We have a test bike that will accept Gen 2, 3 and by using an adaptor plate Gen 4 motors. As long as you don't get the latest "smart" system motors they will all work on the same battery and controller. But aligning the crank is not easy and to be honest, you would be a lot better off buying a bike already manufactured for the correct motor and a Gen 3 is basically a pure road bike motor.

[@Bazza1968]

@@p2e SRAM make an X-Sync (narrow/wide)up to 18T, I run 16T and have a few 14T in my spares but never used them. Think you can get 20T max (not X-Sync though). One day my EMTB will become a more converted road/gravel hybrid and I'll be going 18 or 20T front and probably drop to 11-36 or 42 cassette. You don't need to upgrade your Gen2 CX, just keep rebuilding it and I'm sure there's companies that could re-cell a battery if they stop selling them....

[@Evo836]

My 2.2.Brose Specialized has just failed waiting for a replacement but as Specialized extended there warranty to 4 years they look after their customer's.

[@JohnnyMotel99]

I am looking at a Specialized, when I see that I need to pay another~200 for seals and upgraded bearings, the 4 year warranty makes sense. Brose know the weakness in their motor and they must know it's cheaper to swap ot motors than change the design.

[@Evo836]

@@2011buddylee Hi 2019 Specialized Kenovo Expert so far they have been great as I snapped a frame aswell and one set of wheels Roval as cracks at each spoke. Berkshire Cycles have been great. As I ride every day nearly and a x racer I am prity hard on the bike as I broke 5 coil Fox factory coil DHX2 shock bodies so Fox give me a new Fox factory X2 air shock and that has been great just serviced but they changed the internal seals for 2024 to a better sealing rubber and no problems since as getting aeration in the oil.

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

@@JohnnyMotel99 Brose are now fitting an even stronger belt and one of our seal designs as standard.

[@bldrmtnman]

didn't really speak about the Pinion gear and motor. thoughts?

[@scottbailey5644]

Fascinating, thanks!

[@Photoshopuzr]

EMBN I got a question about e-bikes, would you say it's better to build a bike like the specialized Turbo Tero X version with a Brose moto to save future headache on repairing if the motor is to fail? or would you just buy a specialized Turbo Tero X regardless. As newer and newer motors and battery power keeps gettong stronger and stronger I Definity have no money to be wasting on buying a new bike just to get the e-power updated. ill like to hear you and other's opinion on this.

[@19774p]

Переходи на бафанг и китайские велосипеды

[@P3tchy]

Had the yam pw-x2 and now on the X3, great motor.

[@sanatandharma4435]

Answers to questions I have never thought about! My Specialized e bike has a motor, I don't know what it is? Do I care? Not really. It gets me up the mountain in N.Spain where I live. I t helps me do 90km along winding undulating terraine. It allows me to tour! I do not fiddle with the settings and just love riding it! We have rain here, heat and wind. But, it is reassuring to know that ir can be repaired if needed. I will go online now and find out what motor it is!

[@dosetti]

What to do to optimize motor endurance, other than just keeping it clean and using it correctly? Motors are service free but so are DSG car gear boxes and there are things you better do if wanted that gear box last as long as possible, changing oils, seals and oil filters. What to do with ebike motors? Open up, clean old grease and putting new grease in?

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

That's about it. Although with clutch bearings, plastic gears and bushes, aluminium gears etc. The choice of grease is extremely specific and normal greases will not do your motor a lot of good!

[@islandaerial3414]

Bosch Gen 2? That's strange because, I'm on my 5th Gen 2 DU. The most mileage I've got was 11,000 km FAR less with the subsequent replacements Would plastering silicone sealer around the seams help?

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

When we have investigated situations like yours, we have always found the motor has failed through water ingress and the customer is stunned! But it's not riding in the dry that causes water ingress, and sometimes it is things that the rider is not aware of... Example: Washing the bike on its side, car racks as mentioned in the video, direct hosing, lending your bike to a friend or relative, buying a bike second hand where the person before has cleaned it to death just before selling it. Hard washing around the crank area can kill a Gen 2 within 150 miles. There are also certain bikes that will kill a Gen 2 very quickly, Trek Powerfly will accumulate mud around the front sprocket due to the design of the motor cover, this mud gets compressed behind the front sprocket by the chain and forced into the main motor bearing. Anti chain suck devices and chain guides can do the same thing. I hope this answer helps you put a finger on possible cause of failure. Pete.

[@islandaerial3414]

@@Ebikemotorcentre I do have a Powerfly. I never use anything stronger than a garden hose and I'm very careful about keeping crap out of the crank area. I would like to get a Mudstop Kit but, they aren't available and/or can't get one shipped to Canada. Cheers

[@jokermtb]

I know it’s risky for the channel to tart their relationships with the brands, but perhaps a follow up story about which motors are user/customer serviceable, repairable and which are only factory serviceable.

[@embn]

Hi, did you not see this one? kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKjRl4eFesh-bZI

[@embn]

@anonymousone6075 Just for the record, this was an open and honest discussion with an expert. No brand paid for this video. We also diod this video, which i belive helps viewers correct? kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKjRl4eFesh-bZI

[@jokermtb]

@@embn Yes, and it got me searching for similar repair outfits in the States - ironically, the shop featured in this KZbin is quite literally the only game in town across the pond. Has any consumer ever been able to have a shimano motor rebuilt/repaired outside of a top-secret shimano lab?

[@tontrenner]

So, did I unterstand it correctly, that the older bulkier model of a motor is maybe the better choice in terms of durability? I am currently considering between the Yamaha PW ST and the newer PW S2. Maybe you can help? :)

[@richdevil77]

Had a Specialized 1.1 SL motor fail after 5000 miles, £180 later and back like new from this company A1 👍

[@embn]

Cheaper than some derailleurs right!

[@totalglitch]

What about Shimano ep8? I mean can you go through creek beds? What motor holds up the best? Im looking at a Santa Cruz heckler.

[@betttina33333]

Brilliant as usual

[@bonnylad100]

Great insight from Pete

[@mikeratcliffe1136]

It's reassuring to hear that things aren't as bad as you might fear from reading online forums. However it might be instructive to hear what can be done at home to improve the weather resistance of motors. Both in and out of warranty (vitus e mythique owner).

[@PhilosoFox]

"Best ebike Motor?" - probably the most asked question of KZbinrs, but bizarrely irrelevant when good enough is good enough and the whole package is more important. I bet our expert hasn't much expertise on Pinion's MGU either, since it's just too new. That all being said, I like Bosch's climbing help a lot which will register small pedal movements back and forth as complete turns and help to overcome technical climbs in a breeze 👍

[@steveread1798]

It seems a big problem is water ingress. What is the best way to maintain the bike to minimise water ingress. Is the only way to protect the motor by just not cleaning it? What can we do to have a clean bike but not compromise the motor?

[@Bikepacking]

The one he picked is it the Performance Line CX (BDU450 CX)

[@dpad_dave]

The comment about how Brose are so quiet, the Brose on my Kenevo expert is louder than any ebike I've ever heard by a very large margin, like 4x louder than any bike I've ever heard and it's been like that since I bought it. It runs perfectly, never any issues, but it's soooooo loud.

[@Ebikemotorcentre]

We can fix that for you :)

[@Mindycogswell]

Where are BAFANG motor discussions on EMBN? It’s like the elephant in the room! Why aren’t these motors ever discussed?

[@PedroMartinsEnduro]

Excellent work! Keep us going!!

[@embn]

Thanks Pedro, appreciate it

[@stighenningjohansen]

Arent those crank type engines putting a great stress on the chain/gears? since it always needs them to move forward. A hub motor seems to me to much better since yo can in most cases just move the pedals, and you will move forwards, and if you need to speed up you have 250W from the hub motor, and you can add power from the pedals

[@1dancier]

Had no concerns about buying a Giant Trance with a Yamaha motor given they're one of the better motorbike brands. Let's hope the ebike motors are just as good. I'm always fiddling with my power settings for range, not sure how much of a difference it makes. Gives piece of mind when you've got a long haul with a big climb at the end.

[@alienbrain7513]

Brose Motor: There is nothing in it we cant Fix! WoW !!!! ❤

[@soundwave6769]

my 2014 bosch haibike amt pro is still going and fast as it ever was with a cx motor in it and dongle 39.6mph on the flat no road bike can pass me in 11 years

[@Stockfish1511]

I have bosch cx gen 4 on my rail. Its an absolute powerhouse

[@mgreene888]

EMBN it is your fault that I know about the Oli Motors. Because of "reasons" I have an Oli Edge motor in the US. So far it has been great but I would like to see more content from EMBN about Oli, you introduced us and never mentioned them again!

[@michaellazuka654]

I'm curious as to what sense the cost complications of a mid drive motor are for the average rider. I'm in northeast Ohio and I'm not climbing mountains where all that torque is necessary. I could spend 1k more on a bosch, that will probably last much longer Than a bafang. To me it's about value. What I'm getting for what I'm paying. I want a bike that I can ride, and if there's a problem with the motor I can just grease it or pitch it.

[@LordHolley]

If power matters, bafang m620. Loads of power and easy to upgrade or service. 1000 to 1500w reliable anyone?

[@whynot64928]

use a motor nappy when on car rack

[@ashystyle]

How does a Bosch Performance Line CX from 2019 holding up to reliability and repairability?