How To Build Finger Strength (SCIENCE EXPLAINED)

[@EmilAbrahamsson]

Hey everyone! I hope you enjoyed this follow up to the two hangs per day videos. I will add all relevant information in this pinned comment and in the description as we learn more about this topic! 1. sportsmedicine-open.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40798-024-00793-7 2. If you wish to help with the prospective study you can answer the VISA-C (injury questionaire) here: tinyurl.com/ucdavisclimbingstudy 3. You can download Crimpd here and search for "Emil" to try the workout yourself: www.crimpd.com/ 4. Link to Ryan Devlin's podcast with me and Keith Baar: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpm7l6l8qqaSbKcsi=53Q8ZKdHWSryPicn 5. Original video "Hangboard Training 2 Times Per Day For 30 Days": kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXO3emynnq1ni6c 6. Follow up two years later "Hangboard Training 2 times per day for 2 years": kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqOknH-noJiIjq8 Massive thank you to Keith Baar, Natalie Gilmore and Peter Klimek for making this knowledge available to us all.

[@lu-tze8099]

quick question regarding the VISA-C survey - is it intentional that "severe pain" is at 0 and "no pain" at 10 on the scale? Sounds like there might be something mixed up

[@peelsgoodman7086]

We should still have a six hour break between now and-hangs and any kind of training right?

[@jakesoccer2347]

How long will the study be?

[@paulntiago]

@@lu-tze8099 Hi! I am another exercise physiologist, but not involved in this study in any way. I can say that these scales are often made a little funny to get better quality data. If it is a standard 1-10, people actually are less likely to really give you a proper response. It's a little mental trick to mix them up or make them like 4-14.

[@grant_13-7]

This is so cool. To be so passionate about climbing and then also getting to revolutionize how we look at finger health and strength. Thank you for taking an interest in these studies, It's almost certainly helped my training and avoidance of injury. Especially as a climber who can only make it to the gym once a week.

[@jprobertsclimb]

Having science backed data like this is a huge step for the climbing community! Keep up the good work, I can't wait to see how far this research goes!

[@jakob_levi]

From a scientific and academic perspective this is unfortunately a very poorly conducted study… I really wish it were different. This research methodology sets climbing research back by years :(

[@thibautb.3325]

He mentioned it at the end but it's still a good start for upcoming better conducted studies even though I agree that this study is pretty much meaningless considering the protocol

[@vit4mint685]

@@jakob_levi thank you for saying what I wanted to say in a much more polite way.

[@MrChristof1234567890]

Absolutely LOVE that the most intense research in our sport comes because a guy likes making videos it's awesome

[@jgsv9094]

Dude, wtf? What about Eva López, Pedro Bergua, Tyler Nelson, etc etc? Literally dedicating 8+ hours a day to climbing research? 😂

[@quxify]

Congratulations on the publication. This is really a great step towards more research in climbing specifically!

[@mangiari]

One possible limitation of the conclusion that I did not hear already is the fact that the Abrahangs are a relatively new concept. And it was very new in the crimpd app. So it could be that the people doing max hangs already did them for years, but just started to incorporate the no hangs. So this would not propose that they are equally effective. I could imagine that the benefits on strength gains don't sustain as long as max hangs do. On the other side, consistently doing max hangs for years might contribute to fingers finally breaking down, the Abrahangs seem to do the opposite. Great work, no matter what. Thanks a lot!

[@geometerfpv2804]

The way they filtered the data here is really important for these kinds of reasons. I need to study the paper. Honestly I expect to find that it's severely flawed. I just can't imagine random people's crimpd uploads being filtered in any kind of consistent way.

[@mangiari]

@@geometerfpv2804 but that's with most of the studies. Either they are useless because way too short or adherence, interpretation and reporting has a lot of spread. Nobody can do a long study and properly control the reporting...

[@WenbanMtn]

My hypothesis is that the max hangs are in fact more effective for strength gains but are more damaging to the tissue leading to a limit in the frequency a person can perform them. The abrahangs stimulate and increase recovery allowing climbers to increase load faster or perform max hangs at a higher frequency over time which leads to accelerated strength gains.

[@mangiari]

I think it's rather intensity than frequency. Very unlikely that all those people benefitting from both increased the number of max hang workouts per week...

[@WenbanMtn]

@@mangiari I would agree that's a more likely scenario. But perhaps over a longer time scale (months-years) the frequency plays a role as most people only max hang in short cycles.

[@chrismaschhoff8849]

Thank you! I’m a physical therapist in the USA and started bouldering about 8 months ago. Even with my knowledge of anatomy and physiology I was struggling with how to train finger strength but not over train. This type of research is fantastic! I subscribed, down loaded crimd, and plan to try to be in your prospective study!

[@Anan-qq7fg]

Can this help with piano playimg?

[@mrblablablabla]

@@Anan-qq7fgno, if anything, it’ll probably get in the way of piano playing

[@DavidBreneisen]

​@@Anan-qq7fg I think if you are really dedicated you could increase your finger length. A lot of elite climbers seem to have insanely long fingers relative to their hand size. You would want to do a lot of stretching and finger extension work though so they don't get too stiff as they get stronger.

[@zichxyna7]

@@Anan-qq7fg Depends where you are at at your piano playing journey. I've been playing piano all my life and learnt classical technique, so for me bouldering and finger strength has helped retain the ease and strength that I usually would lose when not practicing enough later in life. The biggest issues is if your are more of a beginner/intermediate player making sure your not just using fingers to play , having strong fingers will make this issue worse. For advanced players I can also see it affecting agility unless you keep working on it. As long as you can still play relaxed and good technique if you play for fun as a hobby it should be fine.

[@christinabarrington7405]

Also a PT in the US except I specialize in pelvic floor so hands/fingers are foreign to me lol. Even before I specialized, I avoided hand patients like the plague lol.

[@emilmn491]

Wow, one of the biggest science studies in rock climbing explained in a nonchalant way. Make history, Emil!

[@BeautifulFreakful]

This research protocol seems to have some serious methodological issues, not least of which are the inclusion criteria for the different groups. To be in the "Max Hangs" group, people had to do "Abrahangs" less than 3 times per week, and max hangs more than 0.5 times per week (= once every two weeks). Abrahangs only was the opposite. Both was > 3 and > 0.5. This create a huge variability in training regimen for people included in the different groups. In particular, the cutoff for maxhangs is quite ridiculous seeing as the typical prescription for maximum strength training is two sessions per week of > 80% 1 RM intensity with a total time under tension between 30 and 90 seconds per session. What motivated this choice of cutoff? This is not explained in the study. I don’t think this study says what you think it does considering this important flaw (and others).

[@geometerfpv2804]

Agree. I need to sit down with it, but the way the data is filtered is really important here, especially since it's clear the research group is looking for conclusions that reinforce their in vitro study. I am certain you could easily choose to filter the data to get either a positive or negative result.

[@flip_lange]

I haven't read it yet, but the filters are probably based on how big the repective groups had to be. And they are probably a lot less "problematic" than they seem. But, yes, a good RCT would be nice. They're already recruiting climbers as far as I know, but research like that can be ridiclously slow, so some evidence is definitely better than no evidence at all. Concerning the volume of the Max Hangs: when I had a lattice plan I mostly had one session per week.

[@BeautifulFreakful]

@@flip_lange There may be a reason for this choice of grouping, but it is not explained in the study. Nor is the influence of the choice of grouping on the outcome of the ANOVA statistical analysis. I disagree that some evidence is better than no evidence at all, or to be more specific, a certain standard is required to call something evidence. If you look up false discovery rates, you will see that it is possible to have false positives at rates much higher than what the significance level would suggest depending on the quality of the design, the prior, as well as other metrics. The way I see it, poor quality research can set back the general public understanding of a topic. Re: max hangs -- I don't know about the lattice plan, but strength training literature converges towards the kind of volume and intensity I described in my initial message.

[@vit4mint685]

you know exactly what motivated the cutoff. The criteria is decided ahead of time in order to increase the likelihood of having results that can be forcefully presented/interpreted to be meaningful to publish. Such a terrible study.

[@jakob_levi]

@@BeautifulFreakful Perfectly said! A bad study is just a bad study, and it’s NOT “better than nothing,” as some people write in the comments. A bad study can set research back by years. I really wish it were a good study, but it’s not.

[@minihjalte]

I would be really interested in a workout protocol based on these findings with both no hangs and max hangs. And it would probably do good numbers on KZbin.

[@eeb-r6j]

Same

[@whoknows8223]

0:58 for later me Great video mate. Trying to figure out how to train tendons strength best/ fastest 1:23 method 40% intensity 10 seconds 50 sec pause twice a day 2:07 6 hours prior/after any other exercise/training

[@Baytowne0888]

@8:51 I think there's an important caveat here. I'm coming at this from other perspectives - I don't climb, I'm just generally interested in the tendon development and rehabilitation field as it relates to my own/other sports. Dr Baar mentions that you shouldn't need to perform similar movements in the gym as your sport. My retort would be that it is often true in sport that you are not working the underlying qualia sufficiently in your sport to gain an adaption. Specifically - a quarterback throws many times per game/practice. However, those throws are modulated by context. It is rare that you see a maximal effort throw, as the throw speed is dependant on target, positioning of other players on the field, counter-productive body mechanics from trying to avoid defensive players who are seeking to tackle you, etc. So a quarterback does still need to perform max effort throwing exercises or movements that transfer to it (long toss, med balls, jerks, etc.) in order to improve max throwing distance. Similarly, in volleyball, I jump a lot. But that jump is always to a non-maximal target, and is modulated by the speed of play, my own positioning, etc. So if I don't train full approach jumps, standing jumps, and other exercises that transfer to them (power cleans, jump squats, depth jumps or other plyos) then I will not see a positive adaptation in vertical. What we DON'T have to do is do the low intensity versions of these movements that are ordinarily present in a training program in order to ensure we have sufficient capacity to handle the high intensity movements. I don't need to do a bunch of drop landings to prep my body for max effort jumps. I do those tons in practice and play. It's handled. When it comes to the GPP component, I DO need to do what Dr Barr is suggesting - provide supplementary training in a different direction from my sport, e.g. long hold leg extensions, to offset injury risk and support tissue development. Tl;dr - DO continue high intensity, overloading versions of your sport specific movements. DO add counter-acting GPP work. DON'T add lots of low-relative-intensity volume that mimics your sport.

[@Henry-qt3py]

Based on what you are saying, you agree with his statement. You don't do full strength jumps enough in volleyball or full strength throws enough as a qb so you should do max effort exercises to supplement. That is what he says to do.

[@peterbandsholm8853]

in climbing (bouldering) the sport requires maximal effort (usually) especially regarding finger strength, so for that sport it will be beneficial with sub max hangs to aid in recovery. But it depends on the sport.

[@Baytowne0888]

@@Henry-qt3py he says 'do the types of movements you don't do'. I'm saying 'you may still need to do the types of movements you do in sport, but in a way that lets you overload the qualia in question'.

[@Henry-qt3py]

@Baytowne0888 that works be the type of movement you don't do often in the context of what he was saying in the video

[@Baytowne0888]

@@Henry-qt3py I think you're right in saying that you could reasonably include it in his specific message. I don't think he explicitly says it that way, but you're right that he doesn't say 'don't do that'. There are others in S&C who would go so far as to say to a volleyball player 'don't do plyos, you get enough of that in practice'. I'm more responding to the general idea in the field than explicitly stating "Dr Barr is wrong!"

[@Zeitproblem]

Love it. The scientist in me is very happy that someone in climbing makes an actual effort for science backed protocols. Looking forward to the prospective study. A proper randomised controlled trial would be the way to make proper statements about causal relationships

[@adriensanz2354]

This is freakishly great. Thanks a lot to all of you ! Favorite video of the year for me. Keep the great work Emil.

[@eurekaflows]

It's funny how one of the C4HP "coaches" coined "Abrahangs" a long time ago as a means to insult the protocol. I'm glad Emil is owning the term for his own!

[@ludvigericson6930]

What is C4HP?

[@eurekaflows]

@@ludvigericson6930 They're basically grifters in the world of climbing training. They thrive on being contrarian and being loud on the internet -- while trying to sell you training fads.

[@artjomplaunov136]

​@@eurekaflows How are they grifters? everything they say seems pretty straightforward and reasonable.

[@TheRubenDK]

If by straightforward you mean convoluted and going in every possible direction then yes

[@flip_lange]

@@TheRubenDK I'm not sure any of it is convoluted. I find it pretty straight forward most of the time.

[@ridgerunnersp]

S&C coach and PT student here, great vid and I'm particularly interested in the downstream implications for rehab in general. Also thanks for the disclaimer at the end, that is so frequently overlooked when sport science research is disseminated to the general public!

[@yamchoonhian]

Makes sense. Max-hangs or Abrahangs depends on what stimulus each climber gets on their climbing days. So it's about complimenting one's existing climbing style & intensity so as to not undertrain or overtrain. Hence there is no one "best" way to train fingers. A lot depends on individuals themselves with their unique climbing styles, genetic make-up & age. I personally tried Abrahangs only once a day & noticed increased inflammation as my body wasn't able to recover from my regular training sessions with this added protocol. Might work if I am still in my 30's & early 40's when my recovery was way faster. Still, an awesome video that brings forth more scientifically in-depth analysis of our sport, which is so hard to understand due to its varied physiological demands. ❤

[@jwalkrr]

Emil i cant thank you enough for this video! i'm about a year out of completing my degree in exercise physiology, and have taken up climbing as a sport/hobby about 6 months ago and have been trying to structure a training plan for myself to increase my contact/finger strength, and this is SUCH an interesting topic. gonna have to send this video to my professors to show the class!

[@EricBurbeck]

This is absolutely incredible content. Thank you SO MUCH for sharing this study as well as the part you played in creating it!

[@jjimena263]

Congrats on the paper!!! More power to you Emil, hope you do more

[@tadeasulrich2946]

Science oriented videos definitely your best work!! whats even more awesome that other channels pick up upon your content and develop discussion about new methods even more, good job.

[@robertopunek]

Perfect timing for this video, as I've ruptured my A2 2 weeks ago :(. I'm doing submax hangs as my main rehab exercise with additional finger exercises.

[@dannes22]

And I broke my pip joint on my left middle finger. Fuuun times brother

[@robertopunek]

​@@dannes22sucks going to the gym to only train and do no climbing 🥲

[@alisoncurran9631]

As a total science nerd, I absolutely loved this video. Can't wait to see the full video! Really interesting , must finally start finger boarding 😂😂

[@Djellowman]

Great and humble way to present the findings and setup of this research! Well done.

[@nordexp4332]

Regarding your survey, it may be beneficial to change the scaling for pain to be: 0 = No pain and 10 = severe pain. Currently you have it set as 0 = severe pain and 10 = no pain, which is confusing when taking everyday speech and how we think about pain into consideration. I mean, if you ask someone; "please rate your pain on a scale from 0 - 10" and they answered "0! Lots of pain", I would look them up and down a few times and wonder if they're ok :D

[@1991arck]

I don't know why but this reminds me of zone 2 training and the whole "learn to run slow in order to run faster" idea. Zone 2 is also not enough to be a running athlete: it works best when you couple it with hill running and sprints. There looks to be a common denominator which could be summarised as "in order to get stronger you should definitely push your limits but you should also teach your body how to efficiently handle all the low effort and stress that leads to those radical peaks" (it's probably an oversimplification but it feels like a natural thing to do)

[@riteskills]

not quite - zone 2 is to run faster over long distances by increasing your endurance, not strength. Zone 2 will never make you break the 8 sec 100m. This is different. Like they said in the video, strength has many other factors. There are many different ways you can be strong - that depends how you measure it. Hanging (static) strength is different from dynamic strength - who is stronger - the guy who can lift 300kg once, or 250 10 times or can hold 500kg? but for all of those kind of strength you need strong tendons and ligaments, which is exactly what this is for. BTW, unlike the Bulgarians who followed the Bulgarian method, the Soviet weightlifters rarely maxed out in training, they primarily did heavy volume. Yet they were able to achieve great strength. And the more recent studies show that loading over 85% is showing almost the same results as going one-time-max as long as your last reps are close or at failure. And the Soviet weightlifters paid great attention to static exercises especially for the recovery of the connective tissue, similar to those described in the video. I don't think they had this specific, 10-min/6-hour, protocol back from then, though.

[@henrypalsgymnastics5230]

May not have been the best wording in the analogy which is why @riteskills felt the need to correct the zone 2 definition. but spot on with the concept and takeaway. Describing it as becoming a “better runner” rather than a “faster runner” would be better. Climbing is the perfect example of the dynamic between endurance and power, so to become a better climber we can train with both endurance and power in mind with different training methods.

[@cimjohansson4878]

this is exactly what i have concluded from my gathered information about the tissues involved in finger strength and how i have trained for the last years with varied consistency. and i have world records in gripstrength as some may know.

[@WoMoLu]

Yippie! Another upload from Emil!

[@Lokiiiii1352]

This is the first video of yours I’ve ever seen and I gotta say this is very well filmed, voiced, and backed. I love seeing stuff like this you have definitely earned every subscriber you have, and I hope you gain many more, me included now 😁

[@codythurston4586]

I'm so into this just to get more knowledge on how to train my fingers to be stronger. I followed you're protocol to nurse my fingers back to health. I incurred an A2 pulley injury sending my first V6. Pushed myself a little too hard there. Anyway, just two months of following the Abrahangs protocol and I'm climbing hard again! Emil your video about the nohangs and the reference to the research paper really helped me get back on the wall. That is something I am extremely thankful for.

[@Tim_flips]

It's so exciting to see proper research in the climbing space! Hopefully in the future we continue to get a large body of literature on climbing training. Good on your for contributing to the advancement of climbing science!

[@nimrariel2517]

i'm really looking forward the next video about this

[@MD-jf1ml]

These amazing study results drop on the same day that Magnus drops his video with Alex? What a great day

[@Scientist12345678910]

You gotta go climbing with Dr. Baar and his PhD student who climbs! Would be a fun video.

[@kentxavier9961]

Thank you for being so dedicated. This helps the entire community ❤

[@tessalittle6244]

Wow - I have been getting back into my climbing and thought to upgrade my regimes - discovering this video is the game changer I was looking for

[@meganbrown5664]

Love the clear way the information is presented. Live seeing the paper like presentation

[@flip_lange]

This whole story makes me so happy! I've been thinking about doing some research on different inger strength protocpls myself, but nothing ever materialised (since I should REALLY finish my PhD and NOT watch unrelated KZbin videos). Participated in the VISA-C as well :)

[@ryanglass4004]

Really interesting research 👍 Some anecdotal evidence from my own experience of trying the protocol last year. I tried it but once per day and not on days when I climbed intensely. I also did an extra two-finger hang on back-two. After a few months I picked up an overuse injury in my right hand (the strong one) which felt was caused by the protocol. It improved when I stopped but still niggles. I put it down to never having a full rest day - usually I take about 3 rest days a week. I'm late forties and have always taken a long time to recover compared to others, even when I was younger.

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

Rest days are crucial, especially in our later years. Proper sleep and diet factor heavily as well.

[@boberman5181]

I'm a few years younger but did (and almost experienced) the same. It feels that more than improving tendons strength, it improved my confidence in them, making me pull harder than what I was really able to. I mean, it's good, I saw amazing improvements and helped me solve some old pain issues in the fingers and hands but this does not do everything alone. It was in august, I'm still recovering (although mostly healed now, I may start this protocol again). And as terraflow said, sleep & diet (protein) play a big role here too.

[@tilmanrotationalinvariant2257]

There are thousands of videos where someone rediscoveres greesing the groove. My theory is, that it works for some time for a very well prepared body. But not limitless, because it mainly focuses on increasing neuronal activity. It could be that the regular training improves tendon adaption, but I seriously doubt, that this would come in a month. He trained hard for decades and was only lacking the proper focus. If your whole day revolves around training, of course you gonna improve more, then if you do it on the side.

[@CrispyCrimpsClimbing]

The hole in the shirt at 1:37 🤣 It's good to know that even at 225k subs Emil is still a dirtbag like the rest of us. Great video Emil! 🔥

[@thejackdiljaxx]

Hey Emil, I love this! So good that you're engaging with the research and actively participating in it, as well as making the effort to share it all with us. The results were really surprising and I'll definitely be using abrahangs going forward :)

[@hlwy]

Hey Emil, superb content as always. Lattice would be a great collaboration to further this research. They must have the largest dataset on climbers on the planet

[@mr.electro4674]

That's so cool that you are part of an official scientific paper

[@balaenopteramusculus]

Aaaaand .... there is the video! Psyched to watch it after listening to the podcast. Psyched to watch any Emil video, tbh 🤗

[@K0r34nC0nfu53d]

Super fantastic and informative video, Emil!

[@cyklatillbahamas]

Did you know that there’s a tendon in the wrist that not all of us have, which according to wikipedia: ”The lack of palmaris longus muscle does result in decreased pinch strength in fourth and fifth fingers.”. Kind of weird and interesting in regards to climbing and grip strength

[@theflaggeddragon9472]

I have it on the left side and it leads to carpal tunnel pain

[@feelinghealingfrequences7179]

what is more important is how and where the climbers tendon is attached to the finger bones thusly some get pulley tendon injuries more easily and need more rest time like three days off and risk injury on day three on better two days on three off etc a physical therapist did a paper on it

[@JLB0880]

How does one know if they have this tendon?

[@theflaggeddragon9472]

@@JLB0880 touch your pinky to your thumb and it will "pop up" on your forearm if it's there

[@mariecher]

​​@@JLB0880The palmaris longus muscle can be observed by touching the pads of the fourth finger and thumb and flexing the wrist. The tendon, if present, will be visible in the midline of the anterior wrist. (From Wikipedia) Google "Palmaris longus muscle", there are photos and videos

[@paulgennaro2001]

It's really interesting seeing the critique of this by MacLeod and Hooper's Beta.... However, what they fail to realize is everything is anecdotally at first-Emil, keep pushing the envelope man!

[@julienmartinelli6389]

Watching the vidéo, I thought that this additive increase from people doing both abrahangs and max hangs was just some sort of "healthy user bias": people that do both hangs are probably the most dedicated /involved climbers in the pool, and so maybe if they were doing only max hangs, they would achieve the same effect (~5%). But the fact that this additive effect almost exactly adds up to 3.2+2.5%, and the fact that this effect is probably collected over the whole pool, involving climbers of all sorts of levels... Makes me think that there really is something at the physiological level, as suggested by Keith Baar. Great work :) As a researcher myself, I can't imagine how thrilled I would be to discover that someone outside academia actually used my work. You even gave work to Keith!

[@lenzwe7775]

It is a cohort study, meaning the groups are not matched. Once the paper is published we should check whether they try to control for these factors

[@jakob_levi]

you really think this is good research? I’m asking seriously, researcher to researcher. For me there are too many research red flags here, rather indicating a poorly conducted study

[@lenzwe7775]

@@jakob_levi I think it's probably the best they could to with the available self-reported workout log data without objective testing. I don't mind the analysis methods so much. The main weak point is the huge variability in the protocols (both control and treatment) due to insufficient instruction with many confounding variables. But based on these findings it would certainly be possible to design a higher quality study with instructed and matched test subjects.

[@julienmartinelli6389]

@@jakob_levi as mentioned above, that's probably the best you can ask for. Of course no, we all know how difficult studies are to conduct in those kind of field. But what can you do, you expected to have multiple groups, all being their own controls with one arm doing the abrahangs, the other the max hangs? It's a step in the right direction after the N=2 experiments of Emil and its brother, but surely there is a long way to go.

[@flip_lange]

@@lenzwe7775 preach!!!

[@dennis1802]

Emil thanks man!! I really enjoy these series and it motivates me to go for my own program as well. Had serious hand injuries but now can start improving again, this gives me the confidence to slowly start and still see the progression again hopefully

[@dannyholley]

This is great. I'm a research scientist and really appreciate that your protocol is evidence based. It's a nice rebuke to certain naysayers who (without any evidence whatsoever) have, for example, posted popular videos that knock the protocol and insist that it just can't work. I'm looking forward to reading the full study when time permits. The synergy between maximal-effort training and very low-impact "maintenance" training makes sense. The world's premier powerlifting gym, Westside Barbel, has used this philosophy for decades. Their approach to max-effort training gets all of the fanfare (because it's so damn impressive), but their athletes also do loads of assistance-only workouts throughout their training cycles. These workouts activate targeted muscle groups without adding too much (or really any) new strain, which is akin to an Abrahang. Great work, excellent video, and CONGRATS on being a published researcher!

[@FunDumb]

Very informative. Always appreciate new tactics to achieve similar if not better results.

[@VickyAdelia-bs2yu]

Super interesting, Emil! (The abrahangs vs max hangs)

[@TheStuffofDaydreams]

This is so interesting! I can’t wait to see the results from the prospective study! Forever sad that grad school keeps me too busy to climb once a week😭

[@willrijnbout]

There are certainly a lot of confounding factors with all of this (some of them addressed by other comments), but I'm really fascinated by the fact that there didn't appear to be a significant difference between abrahangs and max hangs. I'd be curious to know if this can be explained by tendon fibroblast mechanotransduction in response to the tissue stretching (irrespective of weight added). I'm currently doing my PhD studying fibroblasts and ever since your first video on this protocol I've been curious what the mechanism is. Theoretically, a large stimulus (weighted max hangs) wouldn't be needed to activate integrin/focal adhesions and subsequent collagen production. My bet is that the stimulus for collagen production in finger connective tissue is far lower than we think it needs to be!

[@Christian_Prepper]

When I put on scrubs and stethoscope, I instantly become a doctor. 😆

[@ikra]

Amazing. Now we need a study about pulley injuries!

[@pdsm1552]

I know @kneesovertoesguy would love this video!

[@blackychan8570]

You are not wrong sir, i tried training 4 or 5 times a day with finger strength some years ago. Back then the results were actually as quick as you've described. I mainly trained some holds, pinch grip, and crush grips. My main purpose for the training was to strengthen my wrists for boxing and to better grip the tools i work with because they're heavy!

[@franciscobober]

Emil, will be very great to have a video about the other sutff, that will help a lot in sport sciance and spread of information, thanks for such great content always

[@_alex_y.not_]

Emil looking really sharp in that labcoat.

[@alittletrickery]

Thank you so much!! I didn't know about low stress for 10 minutes, def gonna use it for my ankles too. Easy subscribe and can't wait to see how your future research goes

[@tim.poirier]

Such a cool study, really interesting results! I particularly appreciate your disclaimer of the limitations of within study design, it demonstrates that you actually understood the research before sharing it with the public. The mainstream media should take a page out of your book before sharing garbage they don't understand and creating distrust of science (speaking from a North American perspective).

[@Krienfresh]

As someone who suffers from wrist pain, this info is GOLD. One of the best done videos I've seen on youtube. Going above and beyond to get answers. Thank to the scientists for their incredible work, and to you for putting it all together. Again, GOLD.

[@selialos]

Really cool topic and interesting analysis! I'm very surprised by the result, specifically that only climbing does not lead to any statistically significant gains in strength. This would also to some degree contradict your conclusion, that max hangs should be combined with light climbing and no hangs with bouldering, as these cannot complement the respective exercise if they do not increase gains by themselves. Curious to see what future studies might reveal!

[@takeiteasy8847]

I believe what gets overlooked is that in strenght disciplines they dont only do max effort lifts but also submax practice lifts. They are not just for technique work but also to get a better neural activation for a certain bodypart and configuration. The nohangs could very well be a form of submaximal training that improves neural activation. Because max hangs have the disadvantage of little volume to practice (because doing a lot of volume on max has a lot of downsides in fatigue, time cost and injury risk/physical toll).

[@johnasweat]

Great video. I appreciate you explaining the limitations to the research. I look forward to reading the prospective study! The idea training the type of load you DON'T get in your regular climbing routine is super interesting to me. I mostly do non-dynamic outside climbing, with some 90-95% of max hangboarding. I don't really train anything max or dynamic, out of fears of injury. On the rare occasion I go to the climbing gym, where I end up doing more dynamic, I often end up with a minor injury the next day. I'm now wondering if that's because my body is not accustomed to these dynamic forces.

[@renanbardinho]

Amazing! Thanks for pushing at this front!

[@david._.farner]

Thanks a lot for this amazing video! It’s so interesting and helpful and really cool to have those kinds of videos on KZbin!

[@operatorblack]

I’ve always been accused of overtraining but once you’ve worked to optimize metabolism and increase total work capacity you’ll be very surprised what your body will continue responding positively to. I spent time in a very physical combat related job in the military, and for many years there I watched many dudes, myself included, “breaking the rules” with regards to doing massive amounts of training with nothing but benefits to show for it. Remember, in the army we did PT every day no matter what, so any workout you do on your personal time is already a two-a-day and soldiers aren’t suffering from “overtraining” whatsoever. The worst chronic issue I saw which could have been said to be attributed to overtraining was shin splints, but I have a theory that most people don’t properly train tibialis which is the actual root cause, but that’s another discussion.

[@REIDiculous64]

The conclusion is very similar to the best exercise routine. Don’t do a few things a lot, do a lot of things a little bit. Basically switching up what exercise you are doing helps to keep everything strong and lowers the chance of over working specific parts of the body which can lead to injury.

[@nathanrice7352]

I've started doing Abrahangs with a farmer crimp setup, instead of actually hanging. I call them AbraCrimps. That way I can track loads, instead of just, "Until I feel a stretch." I think your 40% load recommendation is a great starting point, but I've been adjusting load based on what I can recover from. Basically, if I feel no tiredness or stiffness the next day, I'll add a little weight. I'm approaching 50% of max in each grip type after 3 weeks, and still not feeling fatigue buildup, other than the day after I climb AND do Abracrimps. So far I haven't been backing down on that day after training, but we'll see how it does longer term.

[@abdirahmanhusseinali8263]

very nice, it would be good to incorprate as study about board climbing and if one can get the same finger strength result from board climbing as in just commercial climbing + a finger protocol

[@1972drake]

Thank you Emil Abrahamsson

[@Hogmandoesit]

Very interesting! As a beginner I struggle alot with finger strength, I get pumped out really quickly on 6a-b+. It is for sure a technical issue too but this might help me to figure out a way to get stronger more efficiently! Great video

[@emgoodlife6681]

I’m just starting the Abrahangs on Crimpd today! I don’t really have a “before” measure since I don’t feel comfortable hanging full body weight at all, but I have an idea. Next time I’m going to do the Abrahangs while standing on a scale. I can subtract the scale from my body weight to get an idea of how much I’m pulling.

[@ofir332]

subscribed !! wow your content actually valuable, thank you

[@mrblablablabla]

Nice! I’d love it if you also would do research into the optimal diet for getting stronger in climbing and made a similar video on the subject.

[@triplea657aaa]

It seems the more we find out about training, the more a well-rounded diversity is the best way. Go for strength, endurance and flexibility and you get the best results

[@Dippie60]

They're also figuring out more and more that the muscle extension helps more towards hyperthropy (muscle growth) than the flexion of the muscle.

[@usershilov]

OMG!!!! THE EFFECT IS ADDITIVE!!!!!!!!! YOOOOOOOOOO!!!?!?!?!?!

[@TheBanana202]

Tried it with yves gravelle style floor lifts using 40% of my 5 rep max. I was heavily plateaud before but now i am literally able to increase the weight again every single session on my heavy 3x5 days.

[@Cr1ms0nSE]

Awesome findings! What was the frequency for the mixed group?

[@WonderLoveKileab]

I freaking love this!

[@alexmathieu2379]

Such a video really some interesting insights about climbing to a somewhat "large" audience despite (/thanks to) its nerdiness, and I am not sure if there is any other videos like that on the platform !? You can be proud of you :)

[@adamperry3327]

Very cool. I bet Magnus and the other KZbin climbing channels would be happy to promote future research. Design more follow-up studies and reach out to the audience for volunteers.

[@deadmcslave3561]

I was unable to climb for 3 months and now trying to get my finger strength back. I been doing the routine almost every day for this month and I'm almost back at my old grade (6C+) after 20 days. The only days that I skipped were when my muscles were really sore from climbing. I really would be interested to take part in a finger strength experiment.

[@JustDoALittleSports]

Hi, this is a wonderfull video! Thank you very much for the science. Do you mind if I ask, what the TIMEFRAME of the training was / in what time did you get those gains? Thank you very much :) Best regards, Lorenz

[@JustDoALittleSports]

Oh, I found it myself in the paper - brilliant!!!

[@francoclimbing]

This is some good content I can bring on my channel and see how much strength I gain :) thanks

[@istvanherczegh9834]

Wow, very informative video. Thanks

[@cornflakez7720]

galet bra video kingen!

[@ritze4026]

I would argue there is a huge selection bios (motivated people are more likely to do more training) and the placebo effect might be a huge factor. Anyways really interesting and looking foreward to the next study :)

[@raphaelteschl3530]

You need to include an analysis of how the tests are performed with the cells in the video

[@WillChallenges]

Super interesting they didn’t see strength improvement just from climbing! I wonder how many were experienced climbers vs new.

[@sammetu2480]

i.e. grease the groove. works perfectly for all sorts of training.

[@Sindre_sollid]

this is going to get BIG

[@hainleysimpson1507]

Muscle and tendon strength are immense power and strength bolstering factors.

[@matiko280]

I wonder if any of the abrahams 10 min low load training could help with avoiding injury or recovering after an injury for people that work with a keyboard or play PC games for long periods of time.

[@Nyitemare]

A nice step in a good direction

[@jonaslul179]

Really really nice video

[@edwardli421]

Great video, I love the science and data based approach to try to answer this question! It seems a little puzzling that the "only climbing" group experiences zero gains in finger strength. The conclusion suggests that more dynamic oriented climbers might benefit from abrahangs more and static climbers might benefit from max hangs more. This seems to imply that dynamic and static climbers already practice moves that engage the fingers similarly to max hangs or abrahangs respectively through only climbing. I'm wondering why this doesn't show up in the data as an increase in finger strength, even a small magnitude compared to abrahangs or max hangs only. Maybe the effect size of that increase from only climbing is insignificant compared to dedicated finger training?

[@HourRomanticist]

Would like to see Lattice training opinion on this again. Previously they figured that the stimulus was not good enough to improve any material of either muscle or tendons.