DJI vs Bosch vs Pinion: Unbelievable Difference!!

[@ARPost-kn2jl]

As a bosch gen4 owner, I am mainly interested in how all products perform over a 5yr+ lifespan, and how chain and gear wear handles more torq. Dont care about dragraces. My gen 4 almost always runs in ECO and almost never in turbo. less noise is always nice.

[@szyszkojad666]

What's also important when buying an e-bike is the motor-battery pack warranty service because nobody wants to wait 6 months to get their bike back from the service.

[@MRhankylolka]

im using my bosch only in turbo. every time i come back with 1-15 percent battery. my first was broken on 7k km. second was broken on the screw by frame switch 10k km.my third motor still live 9.8k km. 630wh batterys are great

[@zayon0170]

just change bike evry 2 year, you absically spend less in keeping everything in place XD at least for me that i do more "downhill" style ride, rather than trail/cx/enduro jopkes aside, u def have a good point

[@MikeTriz]

They haven't invented time travel yet but if you figure it out please let us know how those test results turned out.

[@TschingisTube]

You should buy bosch gen2, its for you!

[@chrisulrich4141]

Perfectly optimized test setup for DJI's 30s boost mode.

[@markdove5930]

From what I've seen online that 30s isent actually 30s and you can keep pushing it again and again and it will keep giving you boost.

[@derzerstoerer1]

you can nearly push it unlimited

[@Ayvengo21]

@@derzerstoerer1 Does battery know that?

[@DaleStone]

This was a super interesting watch, thanks for taking the time to explain everything in such detail to clearly outline the pros and cons of each system! 🙌

[@patdennehy8564]

As nice as the DJE is, I’ll sti😊ll take the Pinion hands down. No maintenance, shift while stopped, auto shift, etc. Now it’s time for the competition to come out with their own versions.

[@sssxxxttt]

I never saw any prices but I guess the Pinion is far more expensive?

[@Slimboid]

Having the gears midships seams such an obvious game changer. As an ebike rider with hub gears that take years of maintenance-free abuse, I've always scratched my head at the prevalence of chain/derailer setups. Where's the advantage?

[@sssxxxttt]

@@Slimboid For road cycling, with a clean drivetrain, there are a couple of watts of efficiency gain. I think for other disciplines you are probably right. Maybe the simple construction can be seen as a benefit when something breaks. But the risk of it breaking is, as I guess You indicate, like eight times higher.

[@SaiyanEuc]

​@@Slimboidprice

[@emile345]

The concept of the Pinion MGU is the future. Combining the gearbox and motor into one unit has so many advantages. This is the first version, I'm sure it'll only improve over time.

[@mighty-matt]

They are not the first to do that

[@barneyklingenberg4078]

Looking at the price. And current Shimano linkglide drivetrains It’s not. It’s just way too complicated and expensive.

[@AnthonyMcCulley]

Except this concept has been around forever (even by them) and it is JUST now becoming somewhat viable and has a LONG ways to go... and that was before the DJI came out. Any hopes they had of matching the DJI power and range with their current designs are out of the question now. They basically need to nearly start over. Going to be a tough for them, imo.

[@guyhendo]

How much power is enough power? I think we’re reaching the limit of what anyone needs. Personally I’d value robustness and reliability of a motor system waaaaaaaay ahead of power. Time will tell with the newcomers!!

[@Chwizzy]

I want uncontrollable wheelies!

[@cheeeeeeeef]

Been thinking about this a lot recently, with all of the Amflow vids plastered over YT. Don't get me wrong it looks great fun, but I own an ebike to get further afield (and maybe tackle some fun techy sections), not bast on turbo non-stop. I rarely ever hit turbo, because its not the same sport imo. Innovation is great, but lets see it impact the prices pls.

[@dishc532]

Bro, you forgot about traditional transmission guys) who need some help from e-friends to be towed uphill))

[@mlee6136]

Dji drones are incredibly reliable and have very high build quality. I would not worry about their build quality…. I would worry about their support system which would probably be not great.

[@Scomelbasses]

@@mlee6136the demand on an MTB is far greater than the demand from a light weight drone. DJI durability is completely unknown as it relates to e-bikes.

[@NZCycletherapy]

As an engineer and former cycle mechanic I have to say that the smaller these units get the more wear the gears will have to endure, add that to the fact that only the Pinion has a wet sump for lubrication means that the new powerful motor/drive gear units will not last - especially if they are 1000W! I'll take longevity and reliability over ultimate performance, I mean a modern skinny chain ring/cassette/chain wears fast enough without that much power trying to destroy them 🙄. Also the quiet factor of bombing a rough downhill on a silent belt drive vs some gearbox noise uphill is worth it in my books.

[@kl9518]

As a none engineer, we all know technology improves, materials improve. An F1 gearbox handles 1000 bhp. Materials 20 years ago may have reliable issues but not today.

[@jaaklucas1329]

Agree, belt drive is the way for powerful mid drive ebikes. These chains and cassettes are not made for so much torque.

[@shaneycarter8803]

The dji has a 2 year warranty, like any other quality brand out there. They have selected only a few quality retailers to supply and support their product. This is already a hugely significant manufacturer of quality and reliable products, used throughout this format and many others. Obviously they have done their due diligence with research, development and marketing, with regarding their project. They have built a bike from scratch to showcase their abilities. This alone is incredible. A new bike and motor that simply blows everything existing away. I'm sure they will support this and grow what they have done. A trail bike again makes far more commercial sense than a full fat Enduro. More people ride trail bikes than anything else in this sector. I've ordered one and can't wait. I have no concerns over both reliability or support 👍😊

[@fofopads4450]

They don't take orders yet from the site

[@shaneycarter8803]

@@fofopads4450 not sure about ordering from the Amflow site? I've ordered mine and paid the deposit from a local approved stockist, with allocation due between Oct and Dec 👍

[@AnthonyMcCulley]

@@fofopads4450 Depends on where you live, I think.

[@valyushalee2320]

Yamaha has 5 years

[@jarosawrzepecki]

Bosch CX gen4: After a year of using this drive, I am very happy with it. I had no technical problems with it. The mobile app allows you to easily adjust the assistance programs to your needs. You can set overdose assistance if you like, but also such a very discreet one that when you exceed 25 km/h you almost don't feel the engine turning off. I am only so-so with the navigation built into the Kiox 300. Theoretically, it does what it is supposed to do, but it is far from smooth use. It needs refinement. The additional alarm/wireless "key" built into the Kiox 300/GPS tracking from Bosch is a very good additional option in my opinion, which requires the purchase of the Flow+ service in the subscription. I was only surprised that some of the statistics related to training are only available after purchasing the Flow+ service. I thought Flow+ was about security.

[@grillob3]

Cant' wait to see a good bike brand with DJI. I will buy it for sure!

[@Jasonmountainbiker22]

Troydon from Crestline hinted the Bosch will get a power upgrade next year. And the display will obviously be upgraded too. DJI has certainly given the competition a shake up.

[@philseton5796]

@@Jasonmountainbiker22 Bosch will need to and quickly

[@Psyopcyclops]

@@philseton5796Surely you’re joking. DJI is irrelevant in the ebike market. The Amflow is only one bike, and only sold in the US. They’ve sold a couple thousand. Bosch is used in hundreds of bike brands all over the world. They’ve sold millions of these motors. The service network of Bosch is literally 80% of your bike shops in your city. Thousands of options. The DJI network is a handful of service centres. Less than 10 in the US. None in Aus. Bosch doesn’t need to do anything. They already own the market. Even Shimano couldn’t topple them, and they’re a global multi national conglomerate that’s already in the industry.

[@justind5262]

makes sense, they did it before.

[@ethanfoster0]

Great balanced review Rob! DJI definetely takes the win here, with the power it provides the rattling noise seems like a minor issue..plus a really good build! would love to get my hands on it one day!

[@davefreeman9347]

Incredible performance from DJI but as you said Rob it’s part of the story still lot of unanswered questions such as reliability, water ingress etc plus how the bike rides some people won’t want all that power and I still think people will plump for the Bosch due to the options of bikes out there using the motor but credit where credit is due DJI have knocked it out of the park with the whole package, just make sure you have a back stock of chains and cassettes as you will burn through them in no time 😂 great review though Rob 👏

[@_rhapsodist]

that is for sure, it will eat up chains and cassettes much faster than any other bike

[@grantnewby3756]

The DJI and Pinion MGU setup together would be the go for power and durability. Chains and cassettes are expensive and will surely offset the extra cost of a gearbox over time.

[@kl9518]

Dji has a great reputation for quality and reliability for their drones. I'm sure it will be the same this bike. China makes some of the best products in the world today.

[@canieto1]

Rob, I think I’ve commented this like at least 20 times on your videos, but your channel is so good! Really appreciate the hard work you put into these

[@jakerodriguez5548]

As a DJI commercial drone pilot, DJI is dominating the global market with their technology, if this bike is going to be as advanced and dependable as their drones, it's already a win-win with that much smaller lighter motor that is more powerful and a bigger battery. DJI is taking over the world!!! Nothing competes with them.

[@mtbangels]

Hello Rob. I've owned a high torque/performance bike before (Flyon 5.0). Verry heavy bike with lots of torque but still didn't get up all hills like with the PWX3 motor I own now. Too much torque weare out your equipment much faster, chains break... I've tested Pinion (Simplon bike) @ Garda and must say I was very pleased with its outcome. In '26 I definitely will get a Nicolay with Pinion...🎉 Good vids you bring out ❤. Rolando.

[@hassebir]

The Pinion with DJI power in an affordable 180mm travel alu frame and its christmas :)

[@Psyopcyclops]

The DJI looks great. It’s a fantastic motor. Objectively more powerful. Unfortunately there’s not many service centres in my country. Only a couple stores are authorised centres. There’s not many in the US even. I love to see the competition, but until you can walk into any bike shop and buy the DJI and have it serviced there, it’s merely a very cool novelty. That’s the massive issue that nobody is talking about. Regardless though, I really love to see this competition. It’s fantastic.

[@DSC800]

I ride a Trek Rail with an 85nm Bosch, and a Haibike XDuro Yamaha before. I just wanted a little help, not a lot, up the hill now that I'm older & fatter with problem knees but that DJI 120nm is very tempting.

[@vidibites]

The video everyone has been waiting for 😮❤

[@Psyopcyclops]

11:59 Regarding the “fully integrated battery” on the Bosch. This isn’t a “Bosch thing”. It’s specific to that bike model. Most Bosch bikes have a removable Powertube. The manufacturer can use either one. It’s up to you to choose a bike with the battery that you need.

[@ichdermeisterful]

Very nice test, but what I'm really interested in is how the downhill performance of the DJI compares to the Orbea? A powerful motor isn't everything if the rest isn't right. A comparison would be really cool.

[@pauls1128]

Would suggest you read about the difference between torque (Pinion top) and power (DJI top) - it completely explains your observation about the Pinion being great at slowly climbing up steep and technical hills vs the DJI being the king of climbing quickly. Pinion system is tuned for high torque and DJI for power. Torque is what you feel in the seat of your pants in acceleration, power gives a high speed!

[@passby8070]

DJI has been in the high tech motor for long time with their consumer and commercial drones. I am fairly confident they are going be very reliable in the long run.

[@ThiagoMarquardt]

Gearbox is the future! Waiting for bosch creates their own gearbox

[@MrSupermugen]

Maybe for botique brands but not for main stream big brands

[@peroperic3692]

They have it paired with Rohloff Speedhub and Gates Carbon Drive

[@polska905]

They realy are not, way to inefficient, you realy do feel the drag on it, take one for a rip and you will notice it right away...

[@ThiagoMarquardt]

@@polska905 I use rohloff, sturmey archer, Alfine since 2005. Far better solution than any cassete based solution. For ebikes the benefits are bigger Future for ebikes is gearbox. Hub motors were mainstream and after some good mid drives motors, this is the new top level standards. Gearbox will be the same. ZF soon will show their own mgu too.

[@snowcrazed1]

​@@polska905it's a trade off. Personally the slight extra drag on my alfine 11 is easily compensated for by it's reliability and absolute silence of the belt drive.

[@finroddd]

Probably unintentional but this is massive advertising for DJI - and I do not mind at all! It looks like really, really good product. I very much expect the long term review.

[@supervelomantrek7015]

But no one talk about the avinox frame….stiff….flex….

[@johngreason9964]

If DJI offers a spare motor parts type website, with exploded diagrams for ordering and servicing the motor. They will be crowned king. For now. Don't forget, ZF hasn't had their chance yet, and unlike DJI, ZF will be available in North America. Interesting. Obviously, the DJI takes the win here. But personally, if price and possible serviceability were matched, I'd take the Saturn home. Some benefits are obvious. The not so obvious, I'd bet it's a better tech climber. Also, it's likely better on the downhill. Lastly, back country or just general big mile traversing, Saturn. Not to mention, the Saturn is unapologetic, industrial, and just awesome to look at.

[@iconaan]

I’m curious how the chain and other components will hold up with the incredible power of the DJI motor. I hope it won't be a repeat of the Haibike story, which had the Flyon HPR120Nm motor and experienced many failures - chains, cassette wear, etc.

[@The.JZA.]

I'm most excited about the Pinion MGU, but not this one, the one 5-10 years from now when they get it fully ironed out.

[@MinskUK]

Doh! I’ll be 66 or 71, I’m not sure my knees can wait 😂

[@xxwookey]

@@MinskUK Yeah. I've got the same issue. Not sure I can wait 5-10 years! I love the MGU+belt concept too, but that whine sounds pretty annoying too. Guess I'll have to try it.

[@markotrieste]

I think they've made a mistake in using spur gears instead of helical ones. They are a bit more expensive, but way more silent.

[@dannyslaughter4845]

I’ve been running the p18 as an early adopter, on an etrike, lots of dirt as it is full suspension and I have lived for a decade near Farragut park. It has always worked so flawlessly. Wow.

[@dannyslaughter4845]

I would love to replace my system with this and ditch the weight of my hub motor

[@kirkbar]

Rob, excellent review as always, appreciate the honesty and can't wait for more!

[@lars_atx]

Have you had the chance to ride the ZF system? I waited, and am super interested in the DJI system when I saw it announced earlier this year. great job again.

[@bruce.KAY-bike-drifter]

Thank you. This was a great comparison. As a rider who only ever uses the lowest eco-power mode on my old 2017 Turbo Levo, I'm not looking for the fastest uphill in Turbo Boost. I'm leaning towards the Pinion MGU. I'd like to see you review the downhill and technical trail riding of a range of different bikes powered by the Pinon MGU / Gates Belt-drive system.

[@TysyTube]

i was waiting for this❤️

[@thim8009]

Motors are important, but number one thing for me is downhill performance. My levo has a cascade link to make it 160mm. The fork is a zeb ultimate with 170mm. My decoy has coil and 180mm up front. Would love to see not only how they go up, but how do they compare going down.

[@นาถชรถปานดี]

I have some Bikes with Pinion and Belt Drive for a while. It’s the best System out there. Sure at perfect conditions a regular Gear is more efficient, but come on, if your Gears are worn out a little bit or the Dust sit in your Chain - Pinion goes better. No Car is running a Gearbox open to Dust and Dirt, from the Perspective of a Engineer Gears have to be sealed. Our Bikes eats Dirt a lot, so even for your Pocket, it’s better because you don’t need to buy new Gears twice a Year because of Wear.

[@bjorne46]

When Pinion fixes the noise in the next version, they'll be king. Also; No words on the backpedaling of the new Bosch? Chain moving with the cranks = easier to lube the chain. Then ofcourse, with the Gates on the Pinion it's no problem at all.

[@drewsmith6066]

Stunning bike that DJI , looks the part as well

[@epessoarocha]

Any of these models are amazing!!

[@emtbhookes]

Not sure how I feel about more power than 80-90NM. Should eMTBs be closer to a mountain bike or closer to an emoto? 🤔 trail access is already a hard subject for eMTBs. If eMTBs become too powerful we could all loose access to some areas.

[@markotrieste]

Exactly. Also, even with my old gen 2 Bosch, I don't like the "turbo" mode because so much assistance spoils the natural feeling of pedaling. It's only good if I am commuting to work and want zero sweat.

[@sssxxxttt]

I think You ask the right question. With coming to par with electrical trail motorbikes where will eMTBs be regulated? In Europe, +250W requires a license. But it's hard for an officer telling models apart. Will it be regulated by mandatory wireless transponders as with air traffic? As with the scooters running circles around pedestrians in the cities I believe our nature experience will suffer if too many vehicles invade. If they also put out more energy than a human possibly can they will erode trails which in turn become less attractive for trekking humans, or animals for that matter. It's a great benefit they are silent though.

[@dennisossianderrmplmtcst2053]

Great video, great content, great style, thank you rob!

[@kellymoses8566]

ZF announced a really neat new ebike motor. It uses strain wave gearing to make it VERY compact.

[@chillstep4life]

The DJI bike is going to shake up the eMTB market for sure

[@milocuevas]

looking forward for the standalone review of the amflow

[@mrjagriff]

I remember when mountain biking was about mountain biking now it’s all about “my motors better than yours “ 😂

[@TheJewelin]

I think it doesn't matter what is the power. Gearbox is the future especially for ebikes. Once the big manufacturers pickup on this, the tech will move forward fast and hopefully we will ditch mechs for good. Hate mechs on ebikes. Don't align it perfectly and the power of ebike will chew your whole drivetrain really fast.

[@whatisgoingon999]

A range test comparison would be interesting - how many metres of vertical in boost - I imagine the DJI will run out of juice fairly quickly

[@CarkeekW]

800 wh option in the dji will help as does the 4-5kg less the bike system weighs , also if you dont use full power it comes down to motor efficiency instead and i suspect its very good , all that said it would make a fantastic video for sure.

[@RobHill00]

I was at Coed Y Brenin in Wales when The Don from GMBN was on the Amflow we both did the same trail which is around 20km and both used 40% battery, my bikes got the Bosch CX gen 4 with a 750 battery and my bike weighs around 27kg, I’m also a heavier rider than Neil, not sure which mode he used but I was in auto the whole way, pretty sure he did it a lot faster than me as well. I can just go and change a battery but he put the Amflow on charge using the fast charger and it was back to full in around 30/40 mins, enough time to have lunch!👍🏻

[@eaze7324]

In a German review (ride better bikes) he did a range test on the amflow and came to the conclusion that he got similar far in the amflow than with a Shimano or Bosch, but also in turbo (850w), meaning that it is actually more efficient and if you ride trail, which is Shimano boost bosch turbo you'd get more range out of it

[@philseton5796]

@@eaze7324 Yes the data I have seen so far suggests the DJI wins on every level. It's a big wake up call for every manufacturer out there

[@nickolp-it7bo]

Game over!! I'm pretty sure DJi will be capable of making a reliable motor, like most brands I'm more interested in how it copes with the UK's weather, this is the real test. I've never had a problem with my current brose or Bosch in my rail and Shimano in my Merida, but I maintain after every ride. If I were in the market for a new ride the Amflow would be it.

[@tbolende]

Rob, love that you are including the weight / kWh metrics. Great video!

[@BryceLovesTech]

Just for ease of maintenance I’m saving up for a belt drive system. I hate derailers and chains.

[@SonnyDarvish]

I have never ridden a bike with belt, but having both light motor and heavy duty ebikes, I would have gone with the belt on the high torque ebike. When torque is high, the chain system is crunching and I have to constantly dial down the power to shift. Maybe SRAM's new RD that shift better under load is a better choice? But belt bring a peace of mind in general I reckon.

[@misty671]

Nice to see something new. Maybe it gets Bosch to speed up their improvement cycle.

Have been waiting for so long for such a powerful motor. Hope that Amflow come up with a longer travel version of the bike, which is what I would definitely buy. However, I heard Troydon from Crestline saying on a podcast, that the new Bosch motor will get a software update in the coming months, boosting torque to 100-105Nm, that would be interesting

[@joemama142]

My dentist is going to love this

[@svenball5384]

I really hope the other brands now start thinking of developing their USP. Standardized motor fixation over generations, repairable units, flex battery options.

[@stuka78]

That’s Yamaha

[@drahoslavhorvath]

No removable battery is just no go for me... I ride on gen4 Bosch in this moment, and it is absolutely no reason to change.

[@jbonexc1725]

I love your Vids Rob and this one is very helpful. Almost 1 Million subs!!!! Finger crossed you hit it soon!

[@fpadams]

Generally, one expects better products to have higher prices. When the better product has a lower price, that's a real win. So, why is price not discussed more in this video, or even in the comments? Do the people who are interested in these bikes not care about price? Maybe it's a case of, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."

[@martinfromtirol3828]

DJI is simply using the limits of their system (motor + controller + battery). Put more Phaseamps in, get more torque till the magnetic saturation limit of our electrical sheets in the motor is reached, or temperature derating starts. But this way they also need more Wh/km, if you are faster uphill... The energy still needs to come from somewhere. (physics!) I think it's cool, but for me riding an 2016 Specialized Levo with only setting 70% of e-support on max. levels, it's still just a great eMTB ride feeling. I tested the new Pinion ride, awesome belt drive and for me really too much power what I personally don't need on am eMTB. And now the DJI system even opens more power... if you really need this amount of power, consider removing the pedals and buy an electric motorbike. ;)

[@martinsweeney9976]

This is like a Carwow video for E-bikes 😂

[@ivans6905]

The review everyone was looking for!

[@g.wilsondh8407]

Brilliant video Rob! really one that we wanted to see. For me, the perfect e-bike would be: - DJI's wireless controllers, screen and battery - Bosch's silence and power (DJI's seems really overkill) - Pinion's gearbox and belt. I will NOT buy an e-bike with a derailleur and cassette ever Guess I'll have to wait a year or two still

[@PGNogueira]

Lately, everyone on YT is trying to sell the Amflow and its DJI motor but no one makes a test range. I really see people getting excited with DJI’s turbo mode, then they ride around the block twice and return home to recharge the battery :)))) I'll leave the reliability tests to the early adopters who are the ones who always pay the biggest bill. There is something that I am already beginning to foresee with some concern. Soon we will no longer be able to take our bikes to the trails we love so much because they will be considered electric motorcycles. And still no one has remembered to mention the dangers of fire during the summer when we ride electric bicycles through the woods. I'm about to buy an Orbea Rise or Wild, I haven't decided yet - maybe the Wild because of the Bosch engine - but unfortunately I'm starting to think that I'm going to do this at a time when the law will start chasing us. Lots of regulation, conditioned access to trails and expensive insurance to name but a few. Exactly the same as what happened with drones. I hope I'm wrong.

[@willgreenfield]

As for range... i did a 31km ride in mostly turbo mode on a full 600wh battery on my Amflow the other day (weigh 70kg) Not loads of elevation, but a few steep climbs in the 30 sec boost mode etc... Finished the ride at about 3% battery. Once you get to 5% battery the assistance really drops off... The most fun bike ride i've had in a very long time!

[@PGNogueira]

@@willgreenfield My bike rides are usually between 45 and 50 km. The ascende varies according to the mood of the day :) I always try to do more than 500m. Now that I want to buy an e-bike, I don't want to do less. Rather the opposite. So I have to choose wiselly. Thank you very much for your testimony.

[@willgreenfield]

@@PGNogueira no problem! I think you should definitely be able to do that length of ride with the bigger 800wh battery and using the eco/trail/auto modes

[@PGNogueira]

@@willgreenfield Thank you once again.

[@fredEVOIX]

@@PGNogueira I'm 100kgs I ride a 120mm fully (with suspens lock) 14kgs muscular bike in 2024 I did 87km 1252km other than that I do the same as you for example 40-50km 0-500d+ I rented a bosch gen4 26kgs alu mullet 29-27.5 ebike and did 37.62km 1772d+ in 5h04 on which you can remove 15min of hiking because there was already snow at the summit and did the last bit on foot 750wh battery and I had 25% left ascent on road/gravel till 10% slope I did mostly on eco (above drained the battery too fast) 10-20% slope i did on tour 20% or more I used emtb but there weren't many of those (pedestrian hiking ascents not meant for bikes) I never used turbo don't see the point as I was falling backwards from the bike because of how steep some parts where and on emtb the tire already started slipping despite the massive motocross like 2.6t tires, except trying to do a backflip it would have been useless to have more power P.S. I was somewhat tired after that but nowhere near the strain and time it would have taken me without an engine, most of my fatigue came from the gigantic handlebar felt like riding a boat I cut all mine shorter

[@jarosawrzepecki]

Maximum power: Comparing the power of motors in reviews also seems a bit strange to me. On longer trips, the battery does not allow for continuous riding in maximum support mode, so maximum power can be used occasionally, so it does not matter so much in the overall use. At the beginning of the eMTB adventure, playing with full engine power is very nice, but after longer use I personally try to use less support to have a good balance between fun and training. On full support (even limited to 25 km/h) the bike turns into an electric scooter, because the muscle input is marginal. However, I want a reasonable mix of engine work and my legs.

[@TheMitchForrest]

I’d really like to see the time in the top (non 30s boost) mode to see the comparison over a 5+ minute climb in a mode you can actually stay in.

[@davidloucks9149]

Rob should have done the hill test with the DJI in the regular 105 Nm mode as the boost is only good for 30 seconds. It would still be faster but not by as much. For many of our big rides here in BC, one has to manage the battery for range considerations and the big boost power is not used on those rides. The DJI must be burning the battery that much faster in its higher power modes.

[@fredEVOIX]

5813ft of ascent on 26miles because I didn't have more time and it was a test rental for a future ebike purchase bosch gen4 mullet 2.6" tires 170mm I quickly went from tour to eco on the climb as I saw the battery go down fast (I'm heavy 220lbs) I never used turbo and used emtb 3x for like 10s tops on 30% or more ridiculous uphills ended up with 25% battery left and it's not too much because I can do that kind of mountain ascents on legs already if that's all I can do with a motor I have zero interest in ebikes, I did 87miles 6076ft on legs once (good day) so my targets are pretty high and more power is useless to me 85nm already made the wheel start slipping on a 2.6 tires with motorcross like tires on emtb mode, didn't even try turbo no point other than drain the battery faster

[@PeteMac69]

A lot of folks seem upset about the power. Seem to think riders will be flying along like dirt bikes. But Amflow has the same limits as any other ebike, can be run on lower settings to increase range, and has that incredible power on tap if needed. Hard to see a real issue. Unless you just went and dropped $20k AUD on a boutique brand that is now looking a bit off the pace?😉😁 Would love to see DJI work on a gearbox now. Then I'd be looking at entering the ebike market👍👍

[@jeanmarc_in_Hudson]

Wow! Such a great comparison of motors, your comments just reflecting reality for each, good and bad. How did you manage to have these three contenders simultanously, just Wow! Three great bikes too… Congratulations Rob! 👍

[@beatmeierbm]

will certainly watch the Amflow prices and the reliability comments in the future . Getting tiered of the lack in Cx 4 Waterproofing .

[@beerenmusli8220]

Did you have issues with the Bosch CX g4 being not waterproof?

[@Morphose777]

I wish some one would run this same test against the Luna cycle x2 with ludicrous

[@srileo]

Pinion for me. No question. Just bring it already

[@dirtyoffroader2093]

I wear out tyres and components quick enough with 85nm.. dread to think what the DJI motor will eat through. 😂

[@MRhankylolka]

dji is for dirty dan tires))

[@certifiedlawnpros]

The news sram transmission was designed with e-bikes in mind. I actually prefer the previous gen sram with a standard bike

[@miaumauz3884]

Climb time from dji without boost mode?

[@cantkeepitin]

Makes little sense of course super-eco us slowest

[@diminishedreturn]

DJI was impressive, no doubt. But I'm infatuated with the concept of an MGU and belt drive. Like many others, I feel that is the future of carefree riding. Especially for people who like to, or have to (commute), ride all year around including in cold, wet and snowy conditions. Needless the say, the MGU might need another two revisions or so, before reaching its full potential, but I'd take a Nicolai Saturn 16 anytime.

[@StarsAtNight1]

What is the difference in Cadence rpm the motors support? Is there field weakening taking place to support higher rpm? Could be that some motors deliver more power when panddeling slower in a higher gear.

[@holger_ger3391]

I never had the feeling that a Bosch or Pinion motor didn't have enough power. As a rule, I ride with 75 - 80% support, for example in E-MTB mode and not in turbo. So what do you actually need this power for, which, as the test shows, is impossible to get on the ground. And probably also stresses the entire drive train. Maybe for a cargo bike🤔

[@ericb.4358]

Great reviews. Thanks for the details.

[@dado304]

Dont be surprised, it is much more power. +55% comparing to Bosch. But also sucki g battery a lot. Bafang had 1000W for years in M600. Now 1250W conti in M560 and is very fun to ride it.

[@MartinTeerly]

I like the orbea look 🔥🔥🔥

[@robertsarodnik5341]

Very interesting Video thanks !

[@heiderider1382]

I love your very nice and competent reviews al the time with so much fun. You have probably the best job in the world to test always the newest and interesting bikes! Keep on Rob!

[@camryn07]

This was awesome! Would be interesting so see the time for the Amflow in high setting, not the 30-second boost of demon mode it has.

[@greglonnon]

Watching the video, I was really excited by the DJI power. But, the realization that trying to get more trails networks,, land owners, and governments to allow and support emtb seems to be much more important than having a 2x more powerful motor. The DJI bike climbs at unnature speed for most mountain bikers, thus making it harder to convince trail networks to allow them. While Rob says "next generation", motors like DJI might be detrimental to opening up riding areas for emtbs. A emtb that acts and behaves like a mtb, not a motorcycle.

[@billybigdinners]

This is exactly the video I've been waiting for!

[@remostrotkamp2439]

Would love an ultra steep section test with all bikes in gear one...

[@Electric666s]

The Nicolai/pinion has some engagement free before pedalling, but you neglected to mention the rear engagement on the meched bikes.

[@1022SLB]

I wish you had included the Specialized/Brose setup as it is steely silent and has zero play in the crank…

[@driten123]

I would like to see the DJI timed up the hill without the 30 second boost enabled. That would have been a more fair comparison since most climbs are way more than 30 seconds.

[@RobRidesEMTB]

You can just press it again for another 30 seconds. I haven’t managed to get it to not work despite several continuous activations

[@dansadventures5514]

​​@@RobRidesEMTB, this test is misleading as my climbs are at least 30 minutes and sometimes several hours when climbing bigger mountains. I can't press the boost button every 30 seconds as that detracts from the biking experience and even more so if I'm in the middle of a technical section when I would need the assistance the most. I would appreciate a more realistic comparison.

[@makro8218]

@@dansadventures5514I live in the mountains. Verry steep mountains and also difficult slopes. You don‘t have always to push the boost mode button. The Boost Mode brings only 15 Nm more Power. Standard power from DJI avinox is 105 Nm, that is definitly enough for big mountains. So this test is pratical an realistic.

[@dansadventures5514]

​@@makro8218if the boost mode isn't needed or expected to be used then the comparison should be done in a way that represents the real world otherwise it's misleading

[@makro8218]

@@dansadventures5514come on…. The boost push it up only 15 Nm. That is a little bit more power, but not the double ore something else. If is your question why was used the boost mode I ask why the other companies doesn‘t have it also? Thats not the trouble from DJI when other are „to stupid“ for it. And another thing, now I have a specialized, I didn‘t use all the time on every ride the full power…. Power is good to have, but it is unrealistic to use it always.

[@minus2837]

85Nm and 600W is more than enough, it would be more interesting to focus on making it smaller, lighter and more efficient. The dream would also be a standard mount so you can upgrade to a better motor and battery later.

[@jeffdible8171]

Standard mounting, standard batteries and dare I say a way to replace the motor with a conventional bottom bracket and de electrify the bike if you want for the most useability would be great. I was very much a Luddite when it came to this and ambivalent, but I now see this as a way to get more people moving and on bikes and away from cars. This could have a dramatic effect on cities.

[@michalmalanowicz7595]

2 questions. Is DJI legal pulling so much power, way over 250w? 2nd question, can Bosch decouple completely when turned off?

[@eaze7324]

Nominal power (regulated to 250w) ≠ peak power. Nominal power is the power your motor can deliver anytime and permanently without risk of damaging the motor. Peak power on the other hand is the power your motor can do when it's needed, for example accelerating or rising uphill, but this cannot be done permanently (limited by overheating and shutting down power after a time). Just like a human who can ride flat at 20kmh no wind no problem, but accelerating or going uphill makes us sweat and we can't do that permanently. Tldr: nominal power is limited to 250w (regulated by the government), the motor has to be designed to basically overheat when putting out more power. Peak power on the other hand is not regulated and can be how much the manufacturer wants, he decides the absolute limit of the mechanical and electronic parts to be reliable without breaking or catching fire. That's why Shimano can just put out a software update for the ep801 to deliver more power, because the peak power is theoretically unlimited, but limited by software and sensors from the manufacturer. practically for shorter durations, if you try to draw 2000 watts out of a Bosch CX the wires will start to burn after 3 seconds since they are not thick enough for the massive amounts of amps going through there (or battery) or the gear teeth will just break

[@climbergregor1224]

Well, the Surron would beat all of them in the uphill race, but that’s probably not the most important thing in an eMTB segment. The noise/rattle test is nice though. I suggest much longer uphill test. I would like to see it those new motors can sustain longer loads or they start cutting power like the previous gen motors.

[@Chris-bg8mk]

The Sprague clutch in the Dji is really nice!

[@Lorenz_Neumann]

I already rode the Nicolai at Bikepark Bischofsmais. (Ok not this one with alle the Intend) It just works sooo extremely nice on the downhills. It is long and stable on the rough stuff (typical Nicolai). But with enough speed it was so much fun on the flowcountry trail as well. aand I even had the huge 960wh battery! This low and central center of gravity and low unsprung mass on the rear is just the best on the downhills! I could not believe I was riding such a heavy bike - especally after the flowtrail jumps. On handling tight stuff on the uphills you feel the heavy bike, of course. Gearbox is okay - but I am used to the sound of the Rohloff hub on my bikepacking bike. It is just more reliable - and brings all the mass where you want it on the downhills.

[@emiundlenny]

Great review. Thx

[@cameratool]

Why not use some power pedals to subtract out rider watts to more accurately determine motor watts?

[@Adromath]

also a question why the uphill is just around 30 seconds, what is quite the same time as the boost mode in DJI

[@Erafune]

Impressive. Even if I'm not stoked about getting an even more powerful motor, any new brand that pushes the old grandpas of the market to move faster than snails pace is beautiful. If the prices start around €6500 as rumored, then its a big W for us. Expensive, but not car prices. Next gen Pinion less noisy maybe?? That would be a SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

[@mikeoxley9796]

The power level of the current Bosch, Brose, and Shimano is totally fine. Refine the experience, add range and efficiency, and make them reliable and user serviceable and we're good. It's a slippery slope going with more and more power. Not a fan of these overpowered ebikes.

[@SsmAnyfeSt]

Yeah, there are some surrons for people that only want power without using your quads at all... Where I ride, we dont have any fireroad, only nice built singletracks so that much power is useless anyway.

[@ericpmoss]

Agreed. If I want an e-motorcycle, I'll get one.

[@TschingisTube]

It ways 4kg less then any other full e-bike, its not just the power, its the full setup!

[@SsmAnyfeSt]

@@TschingisTube yeah but they should just do a less powerfull one with even more range and maybe even lighter...because ebike as powerfull as surrons, will really get it banned everywhere (in usa and canada anyway)! You know as much as me how people will ride this thing.... some are already dangerous with the ebikes that we have now, imagine with that much power.

[@TschingisTube]

@@SsmAnyfeSt "as powerful as surron", i think you don't know how powerful a surron is. I'm pretty sure they will come out with a value model as they did on all their drone products that will be en par with competitors, this is what they should be feared of and they pretty sure are.

[@jamesfeltham1250]

Good video. When you do the noise tests again please give us a bit of your voice on the bike so we have a reference for how loud they are. Thanks.

[@_rhapsodist]

good point!

[@bushnut8305]

serviceability needs to be accounted for as well. Also are any of the batteries UL certified?

[@barneyklingenberg4078]

About the instant pickup and free float reverse. Shimano EP6/8 have that too. If you want that feature with an Bosch esque support infrastructure that would be good to know. That being said. That DJI performance is unparalleled. And they are an amazing tech company doing many things people deemed impossible. On the drone side they are known to not be stingy with parts that can go wrong they will be affordable and replaceable(props batteries). Also they tend to crash due to human error before they actually fail. But their record on E-bikes is obviously unproven.

[@dude770725]

Very good comparison video of the most interesting systems out there at date! 👍🏻👍🏻

[@nomad-pq4yw8iy7v]

Are the power modes adjustable on the display on DJI so you could remove both remotes? Also what's the guarantee on the Amflow as far as the motor and frame?

[@MrMeheheh]

The setup on the Nicolai is pretty unique, WT, intend, certainly not generic.