Emulating the Hyper Neo Geo 64! MAME Improvements! How is MAME Emulation vs Original SNK Hardware?

[@newchallenge]

Thank you for your dedication to obscure arcade hardware, for spreading the word and for your seemingly infinite perseverance! Great video and thank you for getting everyone up to speed on the state of HNG64 emulation!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Always happy to do it. I just want more people to play and enjoy these games :)

[@crossover-Incorporated]

I've been following Haze development on hyper neo geo and he was making an amazing job during these process. On a recent tweet from him, they may get the sound emulation fixed soon 😊

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I saw that. It might just be part 3 of this series when and if it happens

[@neocvera]

I love that you encourage the emulation and appreciate that most people don't have access to this system. Your willingness to share with the devs is also admirable. Well done!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I just want everyone to play what I like to play. It’s boring being a fan if others can’t get into it to

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Plus expensive hardware shouldn’t be the barrier to have fun

[@METR0lD]

The Hyper Neo Geo 64 is such an interesting footnote in SNK history. Love this stuff!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I genuinely love the hardware but I am weird like that lol

[@mamehaze]

The Fatal Fury ROM issue is because I added default NVRAM files to the ROMset so that it boots with proper settings without you having to initialize it, rather than '1 round' etc.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Noted. Thanks for popping in. I figured it was something simple

[@mamehaze]

also for the speed I think we're just calculating the wrong refresh frequency, we do attempt to use the clocks and screen params as programmed by the software, but the calculation must be off somewhere, might be in part due to the interlace mode. I may just side-by-side a known sequence (such as that buriki attract demo) and tweak it so that they stay in sync.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It should be pretty easy to pick up as it’s not one of those “out of sync after minutes” situations but pretty quick to desync. When I finally pick up a scope I can try and see the exact rate of the sync line

[@mamehaze]

@@VideoGameEsoterica yeah, just keep in mind it does appear to be programmable. Fatal Fury appears to configure the ingame screen (after POST) to 432 scanlines, whereas the others use 448, so I'd expect Fatal Fury to run slightly faster than the rest on hardware.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Noted

[@Soniccd123]

The arcade original seems to have some shading in the 3D models that is still unemulated, its noticeable mostly in fighting games, other than that, it looks really close! Playing Beast Busters in a deluxe cabinet in my local arcade was really a blast, its been so many years, maybe its time to give it a try again in MAME

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Beast Busters is by far my fav game on the Hyper

[@jackytuan]

Watching these videos really brings back a lot of good memories as a kid playing in the arcade.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

That’s what I always hope the videos do…being back memories :)

[@kilobytedump]

It’s been a lot of fun watching this emulation improve so much over the last few months. There’s something about the look and feel of the system that feels beautifully locked in a certain time. Love it.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes suddenly it just went wild with improvements after so long with no movement

[@mamehaze]

Sometimes that's just how it goes. I started this something like 20 years ago. Every year I've looked at it a few times, usually getting nowhere and simply burning myself out, often at the expense of work on other systems. This time something clicked and I unblocked myself on a bunch of progress.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Always how it goes. When I am fixing pcb’s I’ve never seen before / nobody has fixed…generally the solution comes to me when I am doing something random three weeks after I actually sat down to work on it

[@kilobytedump]

@@mamehaze Yep. That's programming right there. Sometime you go for a 10 year walk. !:) Love the work - thanks!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha a break is always important

[@barndaze420]

"I can't tell, so you can't either." Thank you. This is also my sentiment while working in my field.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha it makes sense. Some things are so inconsequential as to not be “relevant” or noticeable

[@GROUCHO_MARX_JOKER]

PC Specs to play Samurai Shodown 64.2???excellent video and LIKE.-

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I have an i9 so it’s over spec

[@brandogg]

Awesome. I recently got a couple Sinden light guns, now I have more stuff to play with them

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Awesome. How are you liking it?

[@MarquisDeSang]

I am so glad you talked about the 8bitDo Nego CD controller. I fell in love witht that ting and I play both on PC and my Switch. And now with that thing, I am absolutely destroying SHMUPS. I was not expecting that.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It’s as good for shmups as it is for fighting games

[@MarquisDeSang]

@@VideoGameEsoterica Its actually a cheat code for fighting games.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

A microswitched controller / stick will beat a D pad any day

[@Charlie-Cat.]

WOW! Much better for sure VGE. Better improvements and glad that this is happening for us gamers to enjoy a better gaming experience to play Hyper Neo Geo 64 games bro. Thank you for sharing this and for posting up on the Neo-Geo thread for others to take notice bro. 8^) Anthony...

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes it’s exciting more people will finally get to experience Hyper Neo Geo without having a closet filled with the hardware like I do

[@TitchgamerRG]

Its fantastic to see these improvements! Great work Haze! Looking forward to the sound Fixes!

[@MoriyaMug]

That'll have to come from a different developer. MameHaze doesn't do audio work, per the man himself. Best we can hope for is that the recent improvements catch the notice of an audio MAME dev who decides to take on the project.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

If one isn’t working I’d rather it be audio than video though

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes fingers crossed

[@TitchgamerRG]

@@MoriyaMug yeah thats my hope to! Last I spoke to Haze about HNG 64 (admittedly a few years ago!) he told me how difficult it is hardware wise and not to expect anything anytime soon so these improvements are amazing! So yeah fingers crossed for the sound devs :)

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

The hardware is a mess. A flat out mess. I have an old motherboard overview on here if you want to watch it. It’s hilariously over complicated

[@devilmingy]

Quite impressive progress for such a short time, given the esoteric hardware.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes. Glad I am not the only person who cares about the Hyper

[@devilmingy]

@@VideoGameEsoterica it’s a shame that certain pieces of hardware are basically disowned by their creators, leaving the community to share and preserve their (admittedly few) treasures. Hyper Neo Geo 64, Virtual Boy, PC-FX: May you always live on for your great ideas amongst the mountains of bad ideas that held you back.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Poor Pc-FX

[@devilmingy]

@@VideoGameEsoterica Wrong console at the wrong time. Still, games like Zenki really show its promise if they had developers committed to its unique architecture (not that it wouldn’t have still keeled right over at the sight of the Playstation)

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes the PC-FX could do great things in the right hands

[@SSJSonikku]

It is great that HNG64 emulation has improved significantly. I wonder why the Audio is still not correct yet?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

The person doing the emulation improvements doesn’t do any work on audio stuff so it’s still untouched

[@SSJSonikku]

@@VideoGameEsoterica Ah, I see. Still this is a huge improvement. I'll finally be able to seriously play Buriki One and Samurai Spirits 2 Asura Zanmaden at last.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yep! All work and are playable

[@evanb4466]

Love this hyper 64 stuff. Still crazy how expensive it’s all gotten

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It has SKYROCKETED in price

[@evanb4466]

@@VideoGameEsoterica yeah I got Buriki one a year ago for somehow only $90.Can’t even find it for sale anymore.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Cheap. It’s $300+ on average

[@fungi6612]

Hyper Neo Geo emulation getting lots of love this year.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Tons. Happy to see it!

[@HanzoHimemiya]

Imagine the tons of independent emulators and libretro cores we will have soon for retro handhelds

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Going to be awesome

[@aaamdacuaga]

I measured the timing with my phone stopwatch for both the hardware version you're showing and the emulation version, the in-game timer for both comparisons seem to be off from my analysis not sure if it's just me though or what but i reckon it be looked into. The original hardware one seems to be a tad bit slower than real time timing, and the emulated version is indeed faster like you mentioned, (i measured this by using a stopwatch on my phone and putting it next to the KZbin video screen and seeing the numbers switch, from doing this i could see them both unsyncing with my comparison of real time measurement) not sure if the hardware was still intended to be like that where the correct fps is set and still the timing is slightly off from actual real time. Disclaimer: I'm not like actually knowledgeable in this type of stuff but I figured I'd mention what I noticed, just in case. Awesome video btw to share these achievements!!! and of course awesome work that's been done for these games so far for those who have done so!! :D Very happy

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

The hardware isn’t ticking at a perfect 60.00 fps, so the timer would inherently run differently since the refresh rate isn’t locked at 60…where one frame would be a perfect one second in real life

[@aaamdacuaga]

@@VideoGameEsoterica oh gotchaa makes sense, ty

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

👍

[@ciaranmccarthy]

Thank you so much for providing footage and feedback to mamehaze. It's collaboration like this that ensures games are preserved for future generations. It's greatly appreciated.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I do what I can! In the grand scheme it’s not near the level of what he does but if I can help I am always willing to. But I did suffer…lost two hours to Buriki 😂 because of course I had to play

[@tecianeli]

I didn´t even know that Hyper Neo Geo 64 is being emulated. Good! You could do one video talking about HNG64 games only, they are very obscure.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I did last year. Look at the playlists :) tons of Hyper content

[@randoarchive]

There is one difference that seems obvious to me, but maybe I'm not looking at it correctly. In Samurai Shodown, it appears that there's heavy gourad shading on the characters (like their shoulders), but in mame, it's all flat shaded or near it. Is that a difference? Or is that just a difference in the brightness? It looks very different to me.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Little bit of column A, little bit of column B lol

[@summerlaverdure]

thank you for thisssss! im so excited to see the HNG64 able to be played!

[@summerlaverdure]

these graphic layers in buriki 1 that messed up, was that because the REN chips weren't working right??

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Happy to do it

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I am not 100% certain what silicon was causing the layering issue

[@vincentrodriguez3292]

So everything except the audio is working for Buriki one? Ive been playing for the last couple of days and i love it. Cant wait until the audio is fixed. Ive been waiting to play this game for years!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes everything but audio. There’s a visual glitch here and there but for the most part it’s like 95% of the way to original hardware

[@vincentrodriguez3292]

@VideoGameEsoterica thanks for the video dude. After I watched I immediately downloaded the latest mame.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Nice. Enjoy it. And def play Beast Busters!

[@Imgema]

On real hardware the characters appear slightly shaded. In MAME, the shading is missing so the fighters look more flat.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

A touch for sure yes but I know they are working on that currently

[@canttouchthis6018]

hm, as a person who works with Shaders and Illumination daily I'd see the obvious shaders difference, but still, amazing how it's progressing. How's the audio in Samurai Showdown64 !? Is it working now? I remember Samurai was quite playable long ago, but the audio was too fast and buggy.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Audio is still a “should probably hit mute” situation

[@bryansabater9562]

I will never forget that I saw Samurai Shodown 64 on the real arcade at the around of time of millennial, I'll give a try since I never play the game.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Fun you saw one. Only Hyper game I ever saw in the wild was Beast Busters: Second Nightmare

[@ciaranmccarthy]

Great work by MameHaze!!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

For sure!

[@feartheolivebread]

Could someone help me set this up? I really REALLY want to play the two Samurai Shodown 64 games, but I can't figure out how to get MAME to work.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

What’s not working?

[@feartheolivebread]

@@VideoGameEsoterica Never mind! I got it working! Thank you anyway 😁😁

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

👍

[@PopeTheRevXXVIII]

Ooh something to play on my pc while I wait for Street fighter 6

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

haha good way to spend some time

[@kylejacobe627]

Can someone Direct me to the correct ROM for buriki one. The one I keep coming across won't work.😣

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Maybe join my discord

[@kaishmuper]

Incredible!! Is there an official place to get this 0.252 unstable build?

[@arcadeguy781]

It's on Github

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Just GitHub or join my discord. We have it compiled

[@kennylauderdale_en]

I've asked this before, but is this possible to run on a mister, or does the memory bottleneck it like N64?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Def won’t happen

[@kennylauderdale_en]

@@VideoGameEsoterica sorry, it's just that there was a PS2 port of wild ambition so I thought they may have been comparable.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

That is a very inferior port so while that works on MiSTer, I can’t imagine this working

[@austro93]

so sad I can't get this to run on MAME, it always says that 3 files with a lvs and U2 U3 at the end are missing. Am I using a wrong BIOS or what can be the problem here? Really want to try Buriki One...

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Look at the .264 file set. You need files from there

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Contact me on Twitter or discord

[@austro93]

@@VideoGameEsoterica found a source with the full BIOS and got to the final on my first try, then Ryo kicked my ass lol. Cool game but hard to master I guess.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It takes a lot of practice. You’ve gotta basically retrain your brain because the game is the exact opposite of anything fighting game wise you’ve ever played. But once it clicks wow is it fun

[@ADistantImage]

I'm actually trying to get HNG64 running on my Steam Deck Oled using EmuDeck and MAME today. Neither SamSho will boot at all though, but maybe I got them from the wrong rom set.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Test on pc MAME. Make sure you have the proper files. MAME just changed some file stuff in the background. Did you get the bios set too?

[@ADistantImage]

@VideoGameEsoterica Yep, got the bios set. I can't really test on PC rn so I've just been FTPing to the Deck from my phone. Gonna try a different source and hope for the best Side note I also got Samurai Shodown Sen for Xenia but when entering a match there's just a black screen while the game runs in the bg. Guess I'll wait for fixes on that one, not wanting to do the Windows thing

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yeah no clue on Sen. Might still just not work

[@ADistantImage]

Nice, I got em booting. Sound is wack lol PleasureDome sets did the trick

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yep sometimes it’s just new files that are needed

[@anthonyvazquez4158]

The latest meme and I have this game but yours moves a lot faster and smoother what are your settings

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Stock. Just a lot of horsepower

[@Phreal95]

I know the video is old, but I cant join the discord. Invite is expired.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Here you go : discord.gg/GNVPRXk5

[@Brad-D]

I feel so stupid for asking this but... where can I get this latest mame without having to like compile or something?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Generally you have to compile from GitHub. If you pop over to my discord server though one of the users built it already (if compiling is a roadblock)

[@MadJackChurchill1312]

When we getting a MiSTer core, I wonder.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Never. Too complex for the amount of logic the FPGA has on board. The Hyper is a needlessly complex board

[@ernart]

hows the samsho audio now hopefully its working now

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Audio has no improvement really...its all visual

[@joseluki]

Why are the colors so dark in the OG hardware?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Just how it’s captured via the hardware

[@taepyeoon8245]

can you cover emulators that feature multiplayer capabilities like fightcade?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Maybe one day :)

[@LejoueurbuveurGreg]

ééééh bien bonjour excellente vidéo j'ai bien aimé pouce vers le haut, à très bientôt et salutjessssss

[@LejoueurbuveurGreg]

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Revenant_Knight]

The true shame about the Hyper Neo Geo 64 is that it had incredible 2D hardware built-in. It could have been a 2D monster for its time. Not a single game used it for more than a few backgrounds and explosions. From Wikipedia, 2D sprite branch: 60 frames per second animation, 128 MB character memory[4] Main functions: scaling, montage, chain, mosaic, mesh, action, up/down, right/left reverse Sprites per frame: 1,536 sprites[5] 2D scrolling branch: Up to 4 game planes, 64 MB character memory[4] Main functions: scaling, revolution, morphing; horizontal/vertical screen partitioning and line scrolling

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes you can tell from the backgrounds in some games that the Hyper would have rivaled / potentially exceeded CPS 3 in its 2D capabilities had it used the hardware SOLELY for a 2D game

[@akatsukione2377]

​​​@@VideoGameEsoterica Just imagine if Metal Slug 3 - 5 were there, with 60FPS and better animations

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Don’t threaten me with a good time 😂

[@Mai_Shiranui123]

only the sound is missing

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes that’ll come from a diff direction

[@TheRealJPhillips]

I think the neogeo64 had maybe 3 or 4 games worth playing. Dreamcast killed the NEOGEO back then and Naomi was God in the arcades when neogeo64 was tryna get notice

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I’d say 5 must plays but that’s me

[@LodanZark]

@mamehaze is doing an insane job o,o''

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It’s impressive for sure