Energy storage in salt - how nanoparticles are revolutionising the industry.

[@dachsdk1559]

If at all possible, I would really appreciate if you could make an episode, condensing or summing up all the various energy storage plans and projects thus far. Sort of a "where are we at" episode. As you said, a lot of different energy storage ideas are popping up these days, and it's pretty hard to keep track of it all. Of the top of my head, there is Pumped storage, Li-ion batteries, Molten iron? batteries, Liquid air, various hydrogen projects, Gravity "hoisted" storage, and I'm sure there is more. All of them more or less clean and with wildly differing efficiency. Anyway, thanks for yet another outstanding episode :)

[@JustHaveaThink]

Might be a challenging (and quite long) video. I'll give it some thought though :-)

[@markusgrain8053]

@@JustHaveaThink it doesn't have to be long or complicated, as you already have videos explaining these techs in detail on your channel dachs probably thought of just a brief overview - from which you can then refere to your other videos

[@code4chaosmobile]

I like the idea of where we are at video. curious what the pace of the industry is at and what to expect gaps wise to be ahead.

[@chrisking7603]

@@JustHaveaThink Another well-researched episode. Green anhydrous ammonia too! Apart from grid-level storage and export potential from renewables-laced countries, I'm really interested in the potential to perform the equivalent of an LPG conversion on the world's existing mountain of fossil burners. Whatever happened to www.nh3car.com/

[@ravenousvisages]

I'll raise the bar... how many of these energy plans and projects can work together synergistically?

[@timl.b.2095]

I wish more KZbinrs were like you, especially the scientific ones. Calm, sensible delivery; no "dramatic" waving the hands about (more and more widespread); no pointless music -- actually NO music to make it harder to understand. I watched a scientific elephant video recently that had several different types of free music, none of it related to the images at all. Must stop ranting.

[@code4chaosmobile]

Agreed. No flash, no glitter just a simple conversation.

[@fredericrike5974]

Interesting! If I heard this correctly, the nano coating also significantly reduces the corrosive nature of salts. If it can be applied to the fluorine and other salt bases in the thorium cycle it could help solve one of the bigger engineering problems, and add another generating technology to the mix. The spent fuel wouldn't seem to need separation- thorium isn't emmissive at low temperature and could be processed into the concrete products.More and more interesting! FWIW, I am also glad to see the encouragement from commenters from one to another rather than the flame wars that had become too common. The thinking process is taking hold again!

[@treasurehunter3744]

I'm not sure that will be possible, even though I agree with you that would be awesome. The salt, as I understand, is mostly solid. In a msr, the salt is all liquid. The nano particles may not be effective then. I like the way you think though!

[@fredericrike5974]

@@treasurehunter3744 You may well be right, but it seems the way to the technology to make thorium a reality may have a new wrinkle. The corrosive nature of the liquid salts have been one of the largest ongoing holdups from what I have read or seen. I'm not a nuclear engineer, but grew up around engineers, so I definitely have that curiosity bone!

[@Jay...777]

ThorCon is about 4 years away from having Thorium salt reactors up and running in Indonesia. They have ways of removing oxygen and water from the mix and using Xenon to prevent corrosion. Details in this vid kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXOUeqWweal8b8k

[@Kevin_Street]

This would probably depend upon how hot the salt can get before the nano coating begins to break down. In the video the calcium hydroxide/calcium oxide solution gets up to 500 C, but wouldn't the salt solutions in a thorium reactor be much hotter than that? I don't really know, but it seems like it might be a problem.

[@Jay...777]

@@Kevin_Street The corrosion problem is solved. Details in this vid kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXOUeqWweal8b8k

[@DeathValleyDazed]

Your channel is literally “the salt of the earth”!

[@JustHaveaThink]

Bless you sir :-)

[@k.sullivan6303]

Yes, but old people dont count! However, it is becoming more homosexual friendly.

[@k.sullivan6303]

Haaaaaaaaa.... Pope Flashbacks!

[@xenocampanoli815]

@@JustHaveaThink Hey, (speaking as the xenophobic American) I thought they didn't use "Sir" in England because it means something different over there with all that traditional classism you guys have...?

[@dewiz9596]

Love having people make me have a think. . .

[@code4chaosmobile]

Agreed. I immediately thought of sustainable fish farming and desalinization along the coasts for fresh water. Then for uses off world or hyper remote locations.

[@soulfirexit351]

Me Too! Love it! What a Great Game I Have Won...

[@rickblackwell6435]

Fascinating and hopeful.

[@charles_1523]

buy their stock

[@theic3guy579]

I’ve am a Proud stock owner of the Company SaltX that have this amazing tech, and i have been for over 3 years. This company is finding its place and growing. Thank you for an interesting video

[@Baekstrom]

I bought for roughly €2000 after I saw this video. So far it has dropped quite a bit, but I think that increasing bond yields are responsible for that. The business plan is still sound.

[@theic3guy579]

@@Baekstrom a typical ”sell on news”

[@jimhood1202]

JHAT is now standard Sunday breakfast watching here in Panama. There's nothing to beat starting the morning on a positive note. Thanks.

[@JustHaveaThink]

Cheers Jim. I appreciate that feedback.

[@wilhelmtell536]

Thank you for your thoughtful analysis and continuing to expose us to new technology.

[@jamesoxford7653]

Watching your video's is one of the highlights of my Sunday's, thank you for everything you do.

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thanks James. I really appreciate that :-)

[@jaskaransingh3556]

I have actually visited their lab and office in Stockholm. They have a very nice demonstration of this concept using a hollow steel rod with two chambers. They have developed not one but several different patented coatings each able to function in a separate range of temperatures. There's only so much you can store and covert because of the efficiency of the process, so they also work on developing efficient heat exchanger designs.

[@justaguy6216]

This is literally the most steam punk enegry storage device I've seen. I love it.

[@mememan2344]

I'm loving the fact that multiple energy sources are becoming possible. Reminds me of the movie speed racer where the cars run on anything from fuel cells, to ICE, electricity, etc. People said that was sci-fi- but nothing could be further from the truth when it comes to what is really possible.

[@justaguy6216]

@@mememan2344 Well we'll see whats viable long term. Since we're currently in a technological shift we have a lot of different ideas floating around. Once we test all the tech the most robust one (or a combination) will prevail and become ubiquitous.

[@mememan2344]

@@justaguy6216 definitely. There will be a main one and of course secondary ones and exotic special custom ones as well

[@MachineThatCreates]

I like it. Efficient , Controllable and not overly complicated. Less toxic than traditional storage elements.

[@chuckkottke]

Thanks Dave for bringing to light a fantastic new way to store heat! Like slaking lime from the kilns, but with the nanotechnology coating to prevent clumping, and at a power density of 420 kwh/tonne vs 250 for conventional salt, plus a common elements solution that won't corrode the vessels, very nice! Combined with superinsulated buildings, the solution appears in sight. I'll bet this would work well even in Texas, maybe now they've seen the light?? 🌞

[@poppasan1873]

All Texas had to do was winterize their power supplies like their more northern neighbors do.

[@ferdousazamkhan9840]

I feel you liquid air power storage idea was the best one till date.

[@tirua100]

Yeah, I've been interested in the different thermal storage options being developed. Here in Adelaide, South Australia there's a company called 1414 that has developed a thermal storage system using silicon as the storage medium. Primarily it was developed as an industrial scale source of heat for industry but it now it has also developed a turbine to derive electricity. Recently it installed it's GASS- TESS system at the sewage treatment plant here in Adelaide. These thermal systems seem great to me, they all seem amazingly scalable and extremely versatile. The salt tech you show here has the added benefit of longevity of storage which sort of sets it apart, very encouraging.

[@markfinch8934]

If the temp is high enough it could be used to create green ammonia without the need of electrolizers

[@CommieBastard-dj9ot]

My wife and I are saving for and planing to design our dream house and your videos give us so many cool ideas! It'd be interesting to see if something like this could be combined with a sterling engine for home scale power storage

[@stevemickler452]

I wonder about a steam turbine/alternator in which the steam would spin successively larger bladed wheels which would each have coils and be a separate alternator. This could also provide hot water and space heating. Maybe a wood burning fireplace to supplement solar panels or mirrors.

[@CommieBastard-dj9ot]

@@stevemickler452pressurized steam is generally not great for residential use as it is very expensive and dangerous to leave unattended. I've seen videos of people using it to power a small metal shop but they were experienced technicians and only ran it while they were in the shop. A sterling engine would not require the steam to be pressurized and can work well at lower temps, meaning it can be smaller, cheaper, and safer.

[@carmadme]

I don't really see this being useful to households any time soon Any system to make good use would far outweigh the costs currently

[@flex-cx9bi]

Two swedish companies are exploring stirling engines to create electricity. Both have approx. 30% efficiency if I'm correctly informed and need quite high temperatures. I think both need above 700 deg Celcius on the hot side of the engine. SaltX have salts that are suitable for different temperatures but the highest I have seen is 500 deg Celcius. So it might not be suitable if the efficiency already are as low as 30% for 700 deg C. With a steam turbine you get approx. 30-40% efficiency which is a better choice than a stirling engine. So I think stirling engines are a better and cheaper choice than steam turbine if you have access to higher temperatures. But that needs to be verified by the companies that explore this technology and so far they are a bit secret about this novel use of stirling engines. SaltX NCS is absolutely best used to store energy and release it as heat in a large scale district heating system. Around 90% efficiency... The swedish companies exploring stirling engines are Azelio and Swedish Stirling. Azelio as a energy storage medium in CSP plants where they use molten aluminium as medium and that can release energy at high enough temperature to suite stirling engines. Swedish Stirling burn flare gases to drive their stirling engines at appox. 720 deg Celsius. Since flare gases are burnt of anyway Swedish Stirling's concept is to recycle the heat to electricity. First targeted area are smelters in South Africa where they use coal to refine chromium (mostly). This process create gases that needs to be flared. These gases can be of varied quality so no one have succeeded in recycle them effectively so far despite many attempts. Swedish Sterling's technology might be the first technology that can do this effectively. They say that by recycling the energy as heat to electricity they can lower the use of electricity used by the furnaces in the smelter by up to 15%, and that is very significant. There are a massive amount of gases flared around the world, and some calculations have shown that if Swedish Stirlings technology are used to recycle that energy it would equal all of the electricity used in all of Africa. THAT would be a significant reduction of emission of heat and green house gases if coal driven energy plants can be closed. SaltX earlier explored the use of their nano coated salts for small scale energy storage for houses, but have put that R&D to rest and focuses on large scale grid connected energy storage where they only supply salt and a source of technology. They have figured that this technology could scale very quickly if other production facilities can build the hardware used and SaltX only supply salt and know-how. Building the hardware themself would be a too big task for a small company like SaltX technology. So the technology is open for other companies to explore, as long as SaltX technology is part of the journey and can deliver salt. Great decision and great thinking since the technology might be a natural part of any district heating system in the world that want to leave fossil fuels and incorporate renewable energy sources. Check the Helsinki Energy Challange. They have started their journey to stop using coal, and SaltX was one of four winners in this competition.

[@KimiPersonal]

I enjoy your calming descriptions of technology. Thank you.

[@truerthanyouknow9456]

Thank you for showing us a glimpse of the talent behind development of this innovative technology. Seeing Corey Blackman (Ph.D Candidate) (3:15) working as SaltX Head of Technology may open the imaginations of my students as they think about how they might apply their education professionally. Addressing the problems of humanity will take require the talent, commitment and effort of all of humanity.

[@TheSpecio]

A principle that was already in use some 140 Years ago doesn't seem to be 'innovative' to me. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_locomotive What are you teaching?

[@scrumtious1]

@@TheSpecio innovation is about applying new methods, producing new goods and applications and opening new markets. Did Apple invent the smartphone, the touchscreen, the lithium ion battery? Nope! But they sure did provide an innovative product!

[@TheSpecio]

@@scrumtious1 You would be right if Apple hat marketed horse carriages. None of the things you mention was invented in the 19th century. All were brand new technical inventions. You confuse innovation with marketing.

[@donlourie769]

Thanks for this work. Always concise and articulate. On another note: 20 years ago I met a man at a conference who was engaged in research for the Department of Energy in USA. One of his projects was a turbine that used natural gas for energy. But instead of oxidizing the gas, it was stripped apart. Tom said the results showed a jump in energy efficiency from 35% to 90%. It was still experimental but very promising. I often wonder what happened to this technology.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

I suspect that the 90% figure was not based on energy in vs useful energy out, but something else, because there is only so much energy one can obtain from a carbon-hydrogen bond, and the Carnot efficiency of the turbine is still a factor.

[@mllhild]

@@incognitotorpedo42 Im guessing Tom did say that he could reach a 35% efficient system with a 90% efficient turbine and there was some miscommunication. Either that or he was a quack, what also happens from time to time.

[@Elwin3918]

Nanotechnology;molten salt x truly innovative ,excellent 👍🏾

[@JessePowell_ad_astra]

What I especially like about this is that the energy can seemingly be stored for long time periods, months even. This is important for high latitude countries like Sweden which have long dark winters. The available solar energy in the winter might be 10% or less compared with summer. So, some back of the envelope calcs for how much Ca(OH)2 would be needed to provide electricity year round: Swedish electricity usage per year: 140 TWh Rough Estimate of Energy Storage Capacity: 100 TWh Energy Storage of Ca(OH)2 per ton: 400 kWh Roundtrip energy efficiency: 40% Effective energy storage of Ca(OH)2 per ton: 160 kWh Tons of Ca(OH)2 required: ~625,000 metric tons Cost of NanoSalt (assuming $250/ton): ~ $150 Million Volume of NanoSalt required (assuming 2X density of water): ~300,000 cubic meters, or ~ 120 olympic-sized swimming pools. Of course, the cost of generators and balance of plant will increase costs substantially, but this looks to be a HUGE WIN if it works as advertised. I'd like to see a full levelized cost of electricity report, but I suspect this can supply power MUCH cheaper than any fossil fuel plant, which means that since wind and solar are already providing the cheapest energy and getting even cheaper, fast, then this could really make fossil fuel not only obsolete, but economically non-viable as well.

[@drpk6514]

When there is not enough sunlight there usually is enough wind.

[@JessePowell_ad_astra]

@@drpk6514 not necessarily. For example, in Stockholm there is less wind in December and January than there is in May and June.

[@drpk6514]

@@JessePowell_ad_astra Usually not always

[@JessePowell_ad_astra]

@@drpk6514 You aren't really bringing any data to refute my point, so let you give you more data. In high latitude European countries, wind power production is about 2X higher in Winter than in Summer. That is not enough to offset the ~8X drop in solar power production in Winter. Hence, high latitude countries need seasonal-scale energy storage in addition to daily or weekly-scale energy storage. Truisms like "the wind blows when the sun doesn't shine" are overly simplistic and should be examined with more scrutiny when trying to plan a true carbon-free economy.

[@drpk6514]

@@JessePowell_ad_astra Use your common sense. In Europe in north which doesnt have much strong sunlight has strong winds. Even in Antarctica, there are strong winds but not much Sun. It is the general pattern,

[@Chobaca]

Thanks for this I bought € 40 worth of stock just to keep an eye on the company. By the way I have about € 5000 in another Swedish company called Azelio. They store heat in aluminum and get combined heat and electricity from that at a high efficiency with stirling engines.

[@ЕмилЕфендулов]

Surprised to see they're listed

[@steeveeleevee6484]

Look up Kontax Stirling Engines in the UK, they make models that run from the heat of your hand.

[@Chobaca]

@@steeveeleevee6484 producing how much power? For one LED? that's not what I'm interested in.

[@helenlawson8426]

Ground source heat pumps and hot air engines is something I've tried to suggest to people in the past, the problem is getting their thinking away from the hobby type engines to the real business end of the market. Using an engine that can work at lower temperature than a turbine opens up more market places so any loss in efficiency is soon made up. It's really hard to get people to understand that sometimes efficiency isn't everything, even though a solar panel is a perfect example of this. It's great to see it is starting to become a reality.

[@steeveeleevee6484]

@@Chobaca It's all about awareness out there.

[@darrenchapman7203]

I live off grid in south Australia, my 250ltr storage hot water system is heated with excess power using an arduino to monitor the frequency of my SMA sunny Island inverter, as excess power is available the frequency rises and the arduino turns the heater on and off via a solid state relay. Several years ago I contacted our state grid company and submitted my design idea only to be fobbed off and told it wouldn't work on a grid scale, I pointed out they'd been doing it for 80 years with night tariff for exactly the same reasons. Back before renewable energy they needed to load the generators over night so electric storage water heaters were promoted and discounted electricity rates available, now with fewer generators and increased renewable energy the same problem exists....now I heard on the news that the grid company has partnerships with a hot water system company and have developed a new hot water system that strangely enough does exactly what I developed 5 years ago.

[@ronkirk5099]

This is yet another exciting development in much needed energy storage for intermittent green energy sources like wind turbines and solar. I'm concerned about trying to use methane as a bridge fuel as green energy systems continue to be built. The problem is the amount of methane leakage between production, transportation and use. If the leakage is greater than 4% of the gas produced, the CO2 equivalent emissions are actually greater than coal. Measurements in some our our gas fields in the U.S. are actually as much as 6-10% or higher of the gas produced. I really enjoy your videos, keep up the good work.

[@avejst]

Great Video as always, and great news. My biggest problem with Renewable Energy, has always been a usabel storage . Thanks for sharing :-)

[@TheSpecio]

It still IS your biggest problem. 1 tonne of calcium oxide has a capacity of 400 kWh. 1 tonne of diesel fuel has a capacity of 13.000 kWh.

[@nagualdesign]

I like these videos so much that I've taken a leaf out of your preambling book. Now, when I'm talking to someone I don't know, I like to chat for about two minutes before pausing and saying, "Hello, and welcome to nagualdesign".

[@anders21karlsson]

Great video as always.

[@crecclestonable]

Brilliant work, clear, consice and informative. I love it, more more more please.

[@alaneasthope2357]

Interesting video. This looks as though it can be applied on a number of different scales.

[@danburnes722]

Interesting as always. The 1000 cycle limit suggests changing out the nano coated salt about every 3 years assuming 1 cycle per day. If this is the case, there is likely degradation and loss in efficiency over time. I think this could still work as an electrical storage method tied to a closed system sCO2 cycle which is a nice fit to the output temperature of the exothermic reaction. I could see this used in a small scale as a home heating unit, especially for homes with an overcapacity of solar energy during the day.

[@AmosIrontree]

Not to mention, the refresh of the system might be as simple as switching tanks of salt.

[@code4chaosmobile]

Nice math. I like having a 1095 day life span even if the tail end is noticeable fraction less than at the beginning. What are your thoughts on this off earth?

[@nocto8237]

Its about 50 000 cycles not 1000, but this is being tested right now in a autonomous looping charge/discharge solution at SaltX lab. Ion batteries are at 1000-1250 cycles, so SaltX is about 97% better in that regard.

[@danburnes722]

@@nocto8237 Well that changes things. I did not research beyond the video yet. With this being the case, there could be many, many applications with this technology. Scalable energy storage being the best of them. And to a previous comment, this being a fully closed cycle could be applied anywhere other than maybe where weight is an issue like on aircraft.

[@TheSpecio]

@@danburnes722"... could be applied anywhere other than ..." other than all mobile applications. To substitute a Tesla 90 kWh Battery, you would need: 600 kg Calciumoxide + 200 kg Water PLUS a steam generator, a steam-turbine to produce electricity, a water supply and/or a condenser and an electric generator. Looks like you need a quite big trailer for this stuff. It seems it would be easier to scratch the electricity generation and to build a steam-driven locomobile instead. Welcome to the 19th century! Indeed there was 'Soda locomotive' in 1883 that used the very same principle but with caustic soda instead of caustic lime: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_locomotive

[@DunnickFayuro]

I'd love to see this used to heat greenhouses during winter. You'd accumulate this energy from the sun during summer and then use it when it gets cold. Combined with passive-solar greenhouses, this would be great.

[@kensmith5694]

The working temperatures are too high for home use. Perhaps a better thing would be to find some reversible action that happens at about 20C. Imagine blocks or tanks of magic stuff distributed around the green house. When it goes above 20C, they "melt" when it tries to go below 20C that "freeze"

[@wolterh6]

@@kensmith5694 what you're describing sounds like a PCM (phase change material) with a fusion temperature of 20 °C. I do believe that hot salt tech could be used for greenhouse heating, objectively speaking. The heat would still flow from hot to cold and the rate at which that happens could be modulated to achieve any desired temperature between the temperatures of the source and the sink. Am I missing something?

[@kensmith5694]

@@wolterh6 Phase change is the simplest example. There may be reversible chemical reactions in the same range.

[@DunnickFayuro]

@@kensmith5694 I was thinking more about industrial greenhouses. The ones that can take 1 megawatt of heating or more, each.

[@mehdymoussavi9570]

Amazing technology very good explained but what are we waiting for? all cities and countries should start this exploring this right now!

[@PeacefulWarriorAmanda]

Yay! Just Have A Think uploaded a video, it's a good morning! ✌

[@JustHaveaThink]

Hope you enjoyed it! :-)

[@PeacefulWarriorAmanda]

@@JustHaveaThink definitely a great video, informative as always!

[@Jay...777]

Well now, one could almost allow oneself to be optimistic. There's no doubt storage is the key to making renewable energy the dominant player. Now all we need is COP26 to get agreement to withdraw the massive subsidies going to fossil fuels and we may yet have a bright future.

[@brianwheeldon4643]

Peter, You are of course right scientifically speaking in my humble opinion, and it is a humble one believe me. The main thing about COP26 is that the foxes remain in charge of the hen house of life on the planet and it's resources. We do need to beware of 'think tanks' (if one could call it that) such as the World Economic Forum who has the declared aim of 'sort of changing' humanities focus to a derived green deal that will facilitate the present financial administrations continuation in 'green capitalism', an oxymoron if I ever heard one. Thus growth and devouring the planet would continue apace under the aegis of some sort of green deal, new or not. and run by the present system of BIS, IMF, the present Kleptocrats and their transnational corporations and of course the citibanks' and military industrial complexs' of this world. Somehow I don't think that's going to cut the mustard any longer. Good wishes

[@Jay...777]

@@brianwheeldon4643 Hello, yes indeed. I try to keep it positive and maybe plant a few seeds on this channel as it seems in keeping with the host. Who knows where a more positive approach may lead? The realist in me does see our predicament in a more stark light, as your comment explores. Having followed the US election closely and the Brexit process, it does leave little hope of meaningful change anytime soon. Capitalism as envisioned by Adam Smith, Ricardo, Stuart Mill and Marx would be infinitely preferable to the financial capitalism we have locked ourselves into over the last century. We now have a neo-liberal dogma at its apex, and it is at the core of most world economies today. However… China is at a crossroads right now and may chose to keep its banking system in public ownership and Xi has had great success bringing the poorest out of poverty recently. Russia has decided to be GM free by 2025, which also means free of all the chemicals that go with it - more consequential than most realise. In the US the escalating health crisis and loss of topsoil could force change sooner than is on most peoples radar right now. Crop failures in the UK are up to 40% and Spain will soon have drained its aquifers. So, who knows how the future may unfold? I’ll include a few of links here that you may find interesting. All the best. michael-hudson.com Toward the End of the U.S. Monetary Hegemony kzbin.info/www/bejne/nmWYc6KsoclqjM0 Food Independence & Planetary Evolution: Zach Bush, MD | Rich Roll Podcast kzbin.info/www/bejne/jmTEgIRmg5xnhqs Oneness vs. The 1% #VandanaShiva at the United Nations Office at Geneva kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5yVfmCll9Zsgqc The Long History of Debt Cancelation from Antiquity to Today kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2WnnI1peLx5hc0

[@gerrythompson2122]

“Reasons to be cheerful” but long way to go? 🤞

[@Jay...777]

@@gerrythompson2122 Never say die, that's for sure. Interesting viewing... kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIjKn56djtmkpNk All the best. Enjoy your day.

[@Furiends]

To put things into perspective this puts this technology on par with hydrogen in terms of efficiency. However it might be much easier to scale this tech and its a lot safer. It's also totally useless for transportation due to weight.

[@Ikbeneengeit]

Agree if you mostly want to store heat. Hydrogen is the more efficient choice if you want electricity out, though, since fuel cells are ~85% X-to-electricity, and this is limited by Carnot efficiency at around 30% X-to-electricity.

[@bgbthabun627]

@@Ikbeneengeit please recognize that the fuel cell is also limited by its Carnot efficiency as well.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

@@bgbthabun627 How so? Fuel cells are not heat engines.

[@bgbthabun627]

@@incognitotorpedo42 While this is technically so, any mechanism may be analysed using the second law of thermodynamics, by means of an Availability analysis. thus the carnot efficiency is just a shorthand means of assessing the efficiency of a heat engine, where the availability is assumed to be just the temperatures. ;-)

[@Furiends]

@@incognitotorpedo42 Fuel cells must be cooled. Incidentally that limits their rate of output. In CHP systems fuel cells are very effective.

[@nomadMik]

I'm still pretty new to your channel, but I already get excited whenever I get notified about a new vid. Yay, new tech that makes the world seem less doomed!

[@JustHaveaThink]

That's great feedback Mik. I really appreciate it, and I'm delighted you enjoy the videos :-)

[@RobertPawlowicz]

The linear concentrated solar collectors you showed in your video typically use oil rather than molten salts. Molten salts are used in the thermal towers, not the linear collectors shown. The reason being in incident solar radiation is collected from a much smaller area and therefore the temperatures are much lower - lower that the melting point of the salt. Oil is used instead.

[@geraldlindner9853]

It took me quite some time to get the right data. I wanted to use SaltX in my experimental house (a Bengt Warne Naturhus) in Amsterdam and went to visit them in Sweden twice. Basically, you lose about 25% loading and 25% discharging. So that's fine when you have (lots of) waste heat at your disposal like in industrial processes but for home use, it means you need more solar collector capacity and much smarter integration of usages. For now, I ended up with pvt, but haven't given up on my dream for the 21-century version of the "MIT Solar House One" quite yet.

[@paulroberts3731]

If the use of untreated salt leads to it’s change of state CaO could be used in lime stabilisation of highway fountains. CaO is made specifically for this and it could save use of natural stone aggregates

[@jamesg2382]

Great video as usual, thank you. A really interesting new breakthrough.

[@veronicathecow]

Excellent videos, keep up the great work.

[@bonniepoole1095]

Another excellent vid! Thanks, Dave!

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thanks Bonnie. Much appreciated :-)

[@richardabrahams585]

Outstanding research guy’s!!! Outstanding science education!!! Bravo.

[@emmettthompson2167]

Another fantastic mind opening video report!! Thank you for all the great work you do to make the planet a better place!

[@krap101]

You see similar issues with thermal energy storage using hydrated salts. The problem is when the system cools, the solution can become supersaturated, preventing crystalization. Vibration or seed crystals could be used to crystallize the sodium sulfate, but they found that adding a small amount of borax provides a initiation site making crystalization more reliable.

[@Kevin_Street]

Thank you for another great video! This sounds like it could be extremely useful, since it doesn't require huge amounts of lithium or massive engineering projects to set up. You could locate the storage system right next to the factories and neighborhoods that need the heat.

[@crcurran]

Yes, it's called municipal heat. Its been around a while. CHP plants are providing heat to local populace.

[@Kevin_Street]

@@crcurran Is that in Britain?

[@crcurran]

@@Kevin_Street Yes, a lot more than you would think. The UK did it in small scale implementations rebuilding from the blitz In 2013 there were 1,765 district heating schemes with 920 based in London alone. I'm not sure when this was totaled but in the past few years it was totaled to around 210,000 homes and 1,700 businesses supplied by heat networks in the UK. assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/212565/summary_evidence_district_heating_networks_uk.pdf EU cogeneration is big initiative over the next few decades. Historically, Finland has had the largest systems in the world per capita. Necessity is the mother of invention.

[@Kevin_Street]

Very interesting! Thank you for the reply. There was a video about this kind of heating before on Just Have A Think. It sounds like a very good idea, particularly the way they've got it installed in places like Sweden and Finland, where it can be combined with well insulated homes. Here in my own country of Canada, we've got nothing comparable. They were going to use district heating in one new neighborhood of my city, but backed out because of the cost.

[@frankronald5761]

You present so very well. Thank you for the videos.

[@petervanelslander6206]

Had no notification and see this video was up already for 7h.

[@gavinderbyshire5535]

Great clip, I want the UK government to start taking District heating seriously especially for social housing developments.

[@jefferee2002]

As usual, an excellent video. You do a fantastic job of explaining technology to the layman.

[@DrJaxonsElixirOfLife]

That sounds absolutely amazing. This was something that has not fallen under my radar so far. So thanx very much for that!

[@Yanquetino]

More encouraging developments! I commented in Patreon, Dave. Thanks for posting another informative episode!

[@JustHaveaThink]

Cheers Mark :-)

[@ronaldmallette]

Brilliant, the abundance of salts and to think we've just begun.

[@macrumpton]

Sounds like a great solution for Iceland exporting their geothermal energy to Europe. Of course you would have to boost the temperature, but they have plenty of power to do that, Then load the dehydrated containers of salt onto a ship, and send to where ever it is needed. The tech of parabolic solar dishes is economical and well researched, and would be a nice fit for remote installations of this nano coated salt.

[@salta5859]

Thx for your time of bringing intelligent and deep inside explanation. Many, many thx

[@HC20047]

Informative and no fuss video, thanks! I've been a shareholder since the very beginning. Although currently at red figures for my part, I have great long-term faith in this technology as part of the sustainable energy mix.

[@Constablegrowler]

Great channel, so interesting! One little suggestion. Could you introduce yourself at the beginning of your episodes. I was expounding your channel to some friends but it would have been so nice to say "you want to watch xxx, he offers such a balanced viewpoint to new technologies." Go-to person for Space stuff, for me is Scott Manley and I remember him simply because every episode he introduces himself. Don't hide your own light under a bushel.

[@thomaskregaard8726]

You make it sound like we're presently using the salts in Thorium reactors. To the best of my knowledge, there are currently no running Thorium-based nuclear reactors. Not in commercial production, and not even as a prototype :-(.

[@jordanwood5992]

3mins in and I'm subscribing to this guy. First video I've seen from this guy but it's very interesting

[@pw3848]

Historical sidenote: At around 1860s to 1880s the chemical heat generated by reaction with water was used by fireless accumulative steam engines as the means to power streetcars - it was cleaner for the city enviroment and more importantly without the need for open fire in still quite flammable cities. At the time the electricity wasn't widespread, so it made sense. Try looking up soda locomotive on wikipedia.

[@brianjonker510]

This is so hopeful!!! Maybe put parabolic mirrors aimed at the storage tank for a boost of free heat.

[@penguinuprighter6231]

Great video. Thanks for that.

[@rudikoster9849]

I don't wish to be pedantic, but a salt is a compound created by an acid reacting with a base. Calcium Hydroxide is not a salt, it is a base. SaltX should therefore be called BaseX. Except for that the column is fascinating, keep up the good work.

[@peglor]

One really useful feature of this is that the dried salt could be shipped from place to place by truck, allowing districts, buildings or potentially individual homes that are not near the power station to run their heating from this source. IT looks like the energy density is much too low to be competitive with shipping kerosene or other current fuels though. A piston engine could also be run on steam produced by this material. Provided the steam can be condensed afterwards and reused it's a potential zero emission transport system. A big issue with using this for transport would be turning it on and off and the energy density issue however.

[@zachfox7771]

wow, we really need good thermoelectric generators now!!

[@EscapeePrisoner]

While working with a building industry product information service I learned about a solar thermal system storing heat energy in some sort of silicone substance in a big block which was then put on a train as the power supply for non grid connected electric trains (Canada...I think).

[@InderjeetSingh-im3eh]

As you've alluded to, this could be used for district heating. I wonder if this could work for heating more remote places that have to bring in fuels. Say the Scottish isles.

[@nomadMik]

I just bought a house, in a place where it snows (which will no doubt shock people), and it's heated with steam. So now I'm wondering if that could somehow be integrated with solar panels some day… although up here, I'm not even sure if solar makes sense. It's such an adjustment, not being in my native temperate climate anymore!

[@lardigalltomkaninerhugolot1513]

Saltx can transport their loaded salt from one place to another using containers.

[@InderjeetSingh-im3eh]

@@lardigalltomkaninerhugolot1513 It was more of as a replacement for oil burners and large propane tanks that are used by communities that don't have a mains connection. I'd imagine that transporting the salt itself is pretty straightforward.

[@setoain20]

@@lardigalltomkaninerhugolot1513 that would be wasteful, plus energy density is similar to Ion batteries as shown in the video... so in reality makes more sense ti transport fossil fuels , because of their high energy density I think the goal is Either solar heating like the mirror plants )so they can work always no matter grid load... or heating it up with i guess electricity generated by wind or solar... So you heat it up when wind is blowing but you arent using much power, and then when you need, you reverse the reaction...

[@helenlawson8426]

@@nomadMik Although you get less sun the more north you go the cooler temperatures are better for the solar panels so it kind of evens out. In the Orkney Islands they are going solar & battery to reduce oil burning heating etc.

[@basiclee5770]

we think about batteries in terms of electricity. This is genius, outside the box. More like storing energy than storing electrons

[@robertkirchner7981]

This seems like it would be useful in far latitudes that have an abundance of solar power in the summer and very little in the winter.

[@drpk6514]

Where there is not enough sun, seems to have enough wind.

[@TheMrGoncharov]

Thank you! Good content!

[@timgrose7134]

As usual, Dave, thank you very much!

[@davidallyn1818]

Wow! I love your channel! Thanks for putting together these videos (and insights)!

[@erwinheuck3093]

Very interesting... Understanding all the scales of storage, utility versus community, and the scale of timeframes of performance (ie 1 hour versus days, vs seasonal) creates an interesting ecosystem of solutions and overlap. Add in the quality of stored energy (electricity highest and low grade heat is the lowest, and again, a very interesting energy storage ecosystem.

[@vicbauwens]

Love your channel, clear and to the point, well researched and pleasant to watch! 👌

[@wlhgmk]

Phase change salts are also of interest. Calcium Sulphate decahydrate, also known as Glauber salt is of interest. When heated it liquifies as it absorbs phase change heat and gives this out when it re-crystalizes. The phase change temperature is at about 32 C so is useful for home energy storage. The problem is that as the salt begins to hydrate, it forms a barrier to more water getting to the salt and hence completely hydrating. I haven't heard of an elegant way of getting around this problem. It would probably help to somehow have very thin layers of the salt. The latent heat of fusion of water is 80cal/gram. The Latent heat of fusion of Glauber salt is 60cal/gram so it is pretty good at storing heat.

[@andershjelmare4462]

Being Swedish I have had a closer look at this company. It turns out that although the invention is indeed promising, there are many hurdles between the lab and the widespread application to the benefit of humanity. One important hurdle is economics. If it is not cost effective it will never make it.

[@helenlawson8426]

Getting anything new from the Lab to the factory is one of the hardest parts of any new invention or design. Beyond the technical it is one of investment and finding enough of it to get to the necessary economy of scale, a good idea can die simply because its importance wasn't realised or the market place lacked enough long term investors. It's why I always worry about the online attacks on subsidies as government help especially as regards technology that breaks the old ways is important if we want change.

[@Justan669]

I would love to see these systems implemented in deserts- The heat from the sun would make everything more efficient during the day and at night release the energy

[@code4chaosmobile]

I am impressed. This is the technology that has the perfect blend of integration and practicality. Curious, and disclaimer I am writing before reading rest of comments, can this process be done off earth? Moon? Honestly having a heat pump that's just chemistry would really be amazing for closed loop systems. I also wonder how small the tech can get. Ideally a home or apartment building would be amazing. Oooh setting up a system of renewable's along the coasts to desalinating sea water combined with sustainable farm fishing is another must. Being from a northern climate having stations like this built under a hill or something nature inspired and currently occupying that heat the highways above freezing. Then there is the idea of using 1000 cycles to pull c02 from the air isoa process is simple enough to generate power, and chemistry loves heat, it could be a build it , turn it into a park and move on to next. I would get behind this, especially if we could 3D print most of the facility, and testing out automation is always a good idea. disclaimer number 2, Google OS new spell check is finicky,

[@benblakesley5871]

When you showed the graph comparing this to other energy storage solutions, you did not include the molten metal batteries from a few weeks ago. How do the 2 conpare? Thanks.

[@ADHJkvsNgsMBbTQe]

I’m also curious to see liquid air included in the comparison.

[@derekstannett8477]

Whilst recognising the absolute need for grid scale storage I would add the need to compare with pesky fossil fuel energy density as this will help clarify capability of addressing prolonged ability to sustain significant demand at scale.

[@lawrenceleske3470]

Great solution to heat storage. Non competitive at 30% recovery to battery storage which is over 85% currently.

[@robertjames1259]

Yeah you are always on top of topic Love your show

[@ronmaximilian6953]

As a New Yorker whose building is reliant on steam, I'm quite excited on this both theoretically and personally. I'd love to see excess nuclear, solar, and wind power stored this way.

[@scottanderson2518]

One question I have is: where does the “energy in” come from? If it is from renewable electricity, the next question is the what is the efficiency in converting that into heat for storage. In theory, converting electrical power into heat can be a 100% efficient. But, what if an electric powered heat pump could be used to compress waste, or gather other, heat from the environment? That could increase the effective use of the electricity above 100% - that would be beneficial. One example of “waste” environmental heat that could be employed in cities is the heat contained in waste water systems. There are already heat pumps used that withdraw heat from sewers in some cities in China. This would again be an example of stored and dispatchable renewable energy, and recovery of waste heat to serve the peak thermal needs of cities. Such a synergistic combination of technologies would be very interesting I think.

[@zatar123]

Great idea. And to build on the heat pump idea, I wonder if it could be used for A/C and other cooling applications. In theory this could allow us to turn the heat of global warming into a powder source of sorts. Lovely idea if it we can make it work.

[@tombombadil3185]

Waste heat from nuclear reactors always bothered me. If they use this system instead of the massive cooling towers..... Coupled with liquid salt thorium reactor would be ideal since they operate at about 750* F.

[@imgayasheck595]

Most waste heat is too low temperature to be worth it. There's a symposium on thermal energy called mit meche innotherm.

[@scottanderson2518]

@@zatar123 Yes, absorption chillers can convert steam into cooling for air conditioning and industrial cooling needs. These are available from manufacturers like York and Carrier.

[@robertlackey7212]

Yes these systems have been used as "chemical heat pumps" , they work great . you can dry the salt using waste/solar heat and recover it months/years later at much higher temperatures to run steam turbines , you only loose the "sensible heat" during long term storage.

[@MARILYNANDERSON88]

Carbide lamps were once used as flashlights and in mining. I use (Calcium Hydroxide?) hand warmers that last for hours.

[@Dudleymiddleton]

Interesting concept and system - Could the depleted salt be "re - nano-coated"?

[@stevens9625]

Probably not since they are already talking about how salt after the 1000-cycle life span can be safely used in construction despite the nano coating.

[@Dudleymiddleton]

@@stevens9625 Yes, I see - thinking about it, it probably uses more energy to recycle it than use new anyway. Actually - I'm feeling a right prat now! lol :)

[@kensmith5694]

@@Dudleymiddleton You explored a path worthy of exploring. The fact it didn't pay off is nothing to be ashamed of. It is better to go and try a different path and see if it goes anywhere.

[@pfekk]

Question? What is the "special nano coating material" (particle)?? I understand it is proprietary information, however, to come to a layman's conclusion as to efficiency, one must know that!

[@gaeb-hd4lf]

awesome technology and awesome video !

[@LaserFur]

I use 1960's steffes brick heaters to heat my house right now. Something like this could supplement theses by having extra thermal output. The charging part can happen as these units are over 2000 degrees inside from the off peak electric heat.

[@willm5814]

Me again...I think this has to be a gamechanger for NEW Concentrated Solar Installations using molten salt - if the tanks and pipes that handle molten salt can be made of common metals, conversion processes are more efficient and storage time frames more variable - costs will drop, and places like the Sahel in Africa or the fringe areas of any hot desert would be ideal opportunities

[@code4chaosmobile]

I like the application for desalinization the most. where there is water there endless potential.

[@rb1054]

Thank you for your work!

[@potjezalf]

Amazing video (as always). Keep going!

[@peteaulit]

It would be nice to make it for individual homes as either a heating system or full blown energy production so we wouldn’t have to rely on the grid like... before the grid. The future lies in decentralized production of power, power (the other kind), food and work and house-sized generators could be an option if the size is compact enough.

[@stonks3951]

Thank you for this informative video.

[@christopherellis2663]

Oh my! It produces steam, without radioactivity! How cool! ♨️

[@robsengahay5614]

Writing as a total layman my initial thought is that if this works best supplying heat (through steam) then its application will be greatly limited according to the season. In summer the steam would then have to power a turbine to convert to electricity. Not only would this make it much less efficient in the summer but it would also add to the complexity of the system.

[@scrumtious1]

In the summer the steam could be used to run an absorption chiller en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator to produce air conditioning.

[@matthiasmay1977]

The salt could prepared in summer and stored for winter. It even could be transported by bulk carriers and trains over long distances. Set up thermal power plant somewhere in the desert and heat cities in cold places

[@kensmith5694]

What would be even niftier would be if it could be piped to the cold place at a reasonable cost.

[@tomkelly8827]

Yes, this sounds like an interesting system. To be honest, I am not overly keen on this material but I am keen on heat batteries though. It looks like they are not well suited to wind or water power but they are suited to Concentrated solar, nuclear, coal and other kind of heat dependant electricity generators that could store excess heat when electricity demand is low and then release it when demand goes up. Certainly district heating is important too. There is a housing development near Calgary Canada where they use solar hot water panels to heat domestic hot water and when there is excess in summer, it gets dumped in a large water resivoir underground where the heat is then removed in winter through ground water heat pumps to heat the homes there. Heat storage is a good thing. It can also be not needed though by having biomass, biogas and garbage burners as well as natural gas burners that store the energy in solid or gas and only burn it when it is needed too. So sticks and plastic bags can be a form of battery in a way. Pretty low tech storage. 100% efficient too!

[@Daniel-qr6sx]

This was a nice video. Nice to hear about new tech that hopefully will make a big impact

[@phrozenwun]

This appears to be a portion of the limestone cycle. However in the limestone cycle CO2 is used to cycle between exothermic and endothermic reaction states. Is there some reason you can't take advantage of the limestone cycle to to perform heat storage and release and simultaneously sequester ambient CO2? Seems like a nice synergy of operations to me, though the thermodynamics may not work out as well you get CCS.

[@srpenguinbr]

I don't know if it would be possible to capture atmosferic CO2, at least not during usage of a battery. The reaction needs to be a closed cycle so that it can be recharged several times

[@code4chaosmobile]

Reminds me of the tech described in Freedom (TM) by Daniel Suarez. I'll have to check the book but if I remember the systems waste product was water.

[@phrozenwun]

@@srpenguinbr Everything in the limestone cycle is conserved except the CO2 - it enters at one stage and leaves at another. You can use the heat to do work just as before, I am just not sure of the rate at which work could be done. I suppose I could do a literature search, just thought someone in the comments might already know.

[@TheSpecio]

@@srpenguinbr To get calcium oxide, you have to heat limestone and RELEASE the CO2 inside into the atmosphere. BILLIONS of tons if this technology would be in widespread use.

[@willm5814]

It's clear to me that with no other advancements, we already have a way forward for clean energy to handle 80% of energy use situations...for the rest, there are small modular reactors and/or molten-salt reactors...but let's get to 100% :)...wait...does this mean the concentrated solar installations that are using molten salt, would get a big boost in efficiency?

[@ЕмилЕфендулов]

Why would they? Only if they have big amounts of excess power, which usually isn't the case as they're not simple solar panels that people plop about the place whether they are needed or not.