Does Fast Charging Ruin Your Electric Car's Battery?

[@harry1010]

Oh you know when the whiteboard looks like a ‘rainbow’ board, you’re gonna be in for a GREAT video

[@adrianmonk4440]

Thank you, Mr. Wizard !

[@BrokeMahWallet]

Kick back and enjoyyyyy

[@Bremberry]

The man has violet, purple, pink and gold(?) whiteboard markers, that's NASA technology for whiteboards.

[@jivewig]

lol I thought something else while reading this comment because this was an EV video 😂

[@XDrippingxXBlood]

A sign that there is truly information here.

[@tehkt86]

This is the only channel I really believe 100%. When a channel just saying what it does without explanation just doesn't do for me, it felt like the host is just copying elsewhere and they themselves might not even understand what they are saying

[@EngineeringExplained]

Happy to hear it! I try to provide as much detail as possible (and the “why” behind things), plus sources, as that’s what I’d want to see!

[@christurney77prime]

Love your channel!

[@Leo99929]

@@EngineeringExplained IMO the "why" is more important than the "what" most of the time, as the "what" is obvious if you understand the "why". It's a better way of educating people, and you're nailing it.

[@TheOfficialOriginalChad]

@@Leo99929in a way, you just described the difference between science and faith

[@skyemalcolm]

@@EngineeringExplainedwhile I share your confidence in OEM engineering in general, you still get wacky products released on the market like the ‘22 model RWD non-heat pump eGMP cars with no ability to precondition batteries and yet C rates in the mid 3’s. When at freezing temps the max available C rate dropped to about 0.5C. Clearly a non optimal solution that made it to the hands of the consumer and to this day don’t get an update.

[@Steamrick]

One thing you could have mentioned as additional info at 11:30 is that the 2012 Nissan Leaf had a tiny 24 kWh battery pack - meaning that 50k miles took double to quadruple the charge cycles that you'd expect for a typical 2024 EV.

[@tomsixsix]

It also has an LMO chemistry which is quite different to any other EV made today, and even EVs of similar vintage. Only other car using LMO in mainstream was the Mitsubishi i-Miev which also has terrible degradation issues. If you look at NMC EVs from a similar vintage (VW e-Golf as an example) they usually have 85-90%+ capacity remaining compared to

[@C4rb0neum]

Nice I was surprised by that already. Good point!

[@RP-hn1qc]

​@@tomsixsixFord C-Max and Ford Fusion use LMO

[@xmtxx]

@@tomsixsix In other words, it has one of the worst battery of all the EV's. Don't go nearby them.

[@tomsixsix]

@@RP-hn1qc Interesting, I have heard Ford PHEVs also have bad battery problems.

[@PowerShellWizard]

As an electrical engineer, this video is food for thought. I especially like the fact that you adequately point out how engineering is all about making sweet spot compromises and that your presentation makes it easy to follow, even for a non engineer :)

[@mklooster1]

As an electrical engineer, how can you say it’s easy to follow even for a non engineer? - a non engineer

[@Shorty15c4007]

​@@mklooster1 Skill issue. Lol

[@j4k3br4k3]

Well explained! As one of those battery engineers, cells are one of those rabbit holes you can go down forever.

[@EngineeringExplained]

Yep, much like tires haha. It never ends!

[@dianapennepacker6854]

I heard newer batteries are capping out at 90%. Also I've read we really don't have a lot of data on newer chemistries which makes sense. Yet the predictions are pretty good to me. CATL has a battery they say that will last ten years for 600k miles or a million kilometers. With modern power densities. If true that is crazy. Batteries aren't going to be the weak link eventually especially if solid state takes off. I hope. That is if you beleive what all the companies are saying. Lemme tell you I love how fast battery development is during my life. It seemed stagnant then boom the past ten years have been crazy. Even if you don't care about EVs the progress in batteries is a damn good thing which opens up so many things. Just waiting for lithium air chemistries to have a break through damn it. Being able to get the oxygen from the air looks amazing as far as theoretical power density goes. Something like 12,000 watts per KG at max therotical density. Even reaching half that would be game changing. WE could finally have exoskeletons!

[@Caffeine226]

Long battery life is great until you have a minor accident and they write off the car because there's no way to reliably determine battery cell safety.

[@DeniSaputta]

​@@EngineeringExplainedPlease discuss Neo battery swap and Sany trucks

[@Goodmanperson55]

Finally someone talking about battery charging in terms of C Rating. A pretty common misunderstanding that people have when it comes to fast charging is that they tend to focus too much on the raw wattage/amperage that gets pumped into a car, and not the wattage relative to capacity.

[@SkaBob]

We have a 2022 Ioniq 5 with 65k miles. Like many people it's charged mostly at home and only fast charged on trips. It still shows battery health at 100%, if you get the raw numbers and do the math yourself it's lost 1.9%. Still has no loss of range and with a full charge can show 300-312 miles and it was only rated 265 when new. We live outside Seattle so the temperature isn't extremely hot or cold, 80-90F in the summer and 45-55F in the winter. I charge to 80% most of the time for daily driving and to 100% when on trips. There are Ioniq 5 uber drivers with 120-130k miles who charge to 100% daily and said they said had no noticeable range loss since new.

[@johns5666]

Long time watcher, just wanted to say I love the detailed, no bs videos with as clear of explanations as possible. Keep up the great work!

[@Karakura002king]

This compunds what Dr. Jeff Dahn said in his webinar (I watched 2 of them and they're VERY informative), if you can't slow charge then the most important thing is making sure that you don't go over 80% (75% is the safest since there can be spikes of Lithium loss for certain chemistry composition type of your Li-Ion battery in the 78-80% SOC, which there's little way of knowing which one you got unless the car maker discloses it). Just doing that will ensure that the battery cycle outlast the usage age of the car (frame etc) itself by a loooong run. He also mentions that EV Battery technology has advanced a lot since the Nissan Leaf days so much so that nowadays these issues are addressed by defaut (as long as the user maintain basic EV habits such as not letting SOC get too low, frequent small charges are better, not charging over 80%, not charging in extreme temp both too low or too hot, and storing your car in a shaded/cool environment with ~50% SOC when you have to go away for long period of time) 🤓

[@diydrivenGA]

Some manufacturers post 90, not 80% like Volvo/Polestar. Is this because their 90 is actually 80%? I follow the advice of 80-90 but once a month charge close to 100 when doing a bit of driving right after

[@ProXcaliber]

Right on! I keep my Model 3 at 65% for daily driving, and with my use it only gets to around 55% by the end of the day. That's to say, I often do frequent but small slow charges of 10% or slightly more depending on traffic for that day.

[@mmpsp693]

​@@diydrivenGAthe displayed percentage is not the exact soc.

[@allenzelt4481]

Unfortunately, this is a message that drives regular people away. "you can only use 3/4 of your gas tank or after 100k miles you'll only have somewhere between 85-90% of your maximum fuel economy left!"

[@ProXcaliber]

@@allenzelt4481 I’d blame it more on misinformation and FUD than this kind of information. This is the kind of information we need because it educates people on how to treat batteries so they last longer, and it often doesn’t only apply to EVs, but also to other devices with batteries.

[@liz_at_recurrent6633]

Liz, Lead Researcher from Recurrent here! Chiming in to say great video, and totally agree on the LFP if you can't charge at home. We give this advice all the time for all the reasons you mention.

[@VanjaZavisin]

I don't comment a lot on videos, but I just have to mention that I love how you present the topic in your videos. Technical enough for people to understand the important things, but not too technical to overburden with info. You hit the sweet spot, just like the engineers are trying to do with the battery degradation (and other problems) 😊

[@shockwave1xD]

I feel like too many people think only in binary terms. They hear "fast charging degrades the battery" and instead of thinking "by how much compared to normal charging?" they seem to think "if I EVER fast charge an EV, the battery is literally going to explode or die after 2 years". Explaining that these findings usually come from studies that do NOT take into account the smart BMS we have today but rather charge with a fixed charge rate to 100% (without buffer) is vital. Thank you for that, Jason!

[@garycard1826]

Good point about BMS.

[@pooyakhalili406]

My favorite days of the month are the days that this guy makes a new video

[@EngineeringExplained]

Too kind, thanks for watching!

[@BubblesTheCat1]

And that's usually a Friday. Best chance day that people will be in the mood to watch. 😅

[@aussietaipan8700]

In Melbourne Australia where the coldest days are around 8 deg c and the hottest days can reach over 45 deg c, my 2015 model S 85 is only charged to 80% in winter and 60% in summer. At rest in winter the battery is kept to 60% charge and summer 40% charge. I still get over 400km range (about 250 miles). I tested this once, going back and forth 112km 4 times, I had to charge near home on the forth leg with only 28km left to go home. So the car travelled 420km on its 85KWH battery.

[@joshuagreen5820]

Don’t charge past 80% It’s okay if you arrive at 1% depending if it’s Tesla or Rivian or other EV. They have a buffer. So rather then charging like most people 30%->100% Let it drop to 5% and charge it to 75% you’ll get the same range. But you’ll charge in half the time with half the degradation. I’ve got 70k miles on my R1T and I have 0 degradation by doing what’ve done for the last 2.5 years. 😊

[@1987tijgertje]

The biggest reason I avoid fast charging is the costs😂. A kWh at Fastned costs me around 0.65 euro. Charging that same kWh at home costs 0.21 euro. But if I have to do it I do it. I’m not worried about the battery

[@FameyFamous]

Sure, but also, it costs time and effort to go to the fast charger, worse than a gas station. I avoid fast charging because charging at home is so much more convenient.

[@TAWithiam]

Wow, here in the states (upstate NY) we pay 11¢ a kwh (0.1 euro), and we still got solar to lower the cost. If you can't get permits to install solar you should atleast build a solar array on a car trailer or something jeez

[@1987tijgertje]

@@TAWithiam wel half of those 21 cent is taxes. We don’t need permits to put solar on our roof or to install a home charger though. The Netherlands is expensive in taxes. Well you need to if half your country is below the water level😂 I have a 4600W solar installation on my roof and I can charge the car fine with that. It is still gonna cost money, because otherwise I would “sell” that power to the grid

[@InterstellarMedium]

I was shocked to see how expensive non-Tesla fast chargers are. About €0.65 to €0.69 per kWh. Tesla Superchargers are way cheaper at about €0.32 per kWh. I believe they sell it with no margins/profits. When I first had my M3, I was travelling regularly to and from Germany (1000 km each way) and never got any invoice. When I finally got one (instantly after the charge session), I realized that Tesla was offering free charging outside of peak hours. 69cts per kWh is ridiculous really.

[@Jay-me7gw]

@@TAWithiamthat’s a genius idea with the car trailer. I could do that and park it in my yard and give the HOA a middle finger lol

[@mikeforwarduk]

Another great video. Having watched this and the 2 by Jeff Dahn, my new strategy for my Tesla is: plug it in every night at home without thinking about it on a "granny charger" (only 2.4kW) and set the charge limit to 60% for daily use. That gives me 160 miles range, which is more than I need on 99% of days. If I want to go on a road trip, charge to 100%, and fast charge just enough en route to get you where you want to go

[@Doctorbasss]

Yes Dr Dahn is awsome and also the true father of the NMC chemistry. Charge to 60% is also my magic number. It was discussed on Tesla Motor Club with the same conclusion for the Tesla. Magic number is 58-59% for optimum Calandar life based on NMC and NMCA information from true Tesla data from Teslainfo

[@jwb2814]

Same 22LRMY 60k Daily driver Car is awesome

[@cthombor]

I don't have a Tesla but yes, 60% SOC is a good compromise level for charging a lithium-ion battery on a device (such as a Tesla, or a laptop or phone with a long battery life) which has plenty of "juice" at that state of charge for a normal day's use. You should occasionally charge to 100% to recalibrate the device's SOC-estimation heuristics, or (of course) whenever you expect to need the extra "range" on the following day. I'm annoyed that my new HP laptop doesn't make this easy; my previous Lenovo laptop made it easy-as to set its "dwell" level to 60% SOC -- so I wasn't in any risk of thrashing its battery by hovering at near-100% SOC for extended periods of time at an elevated temperature!

[@jnawk83]

​@@cthomborcellphone batteries have recently become big enough for this to be practical for them too. 80% not 60%, but the concept is the same

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

@@jnawk83 Depends on your settings . I switched of scanning for nearby devices and printers which is a real battery eater . I now charge my phone dayly to 56 % and it drops down to about 40% .

[@csjrogerson2377]

EE is the only guy worth listening to on physics relating to car matters, period. He explains at a level which the less mathematically inclined can follow very easily (there's always the pause button if needed) and there is no BS or bias. The effort he puts into the whiteboard graphs & notes is outstanding.

[@nomadnoyh]

I feel sufficiently educated on the downsides of fast charging and charging too high of a percentage. Thank you. I would be curious what’s happening inside the battery that’s detrimental when you let a battery discharge too low and why it’s bad to leave it in a low state of charge

[@philbert006]

It's magic!

[@joshbridges8410]

When you discharge the battery fully, you draw the most lithium ions out of the anode and back into the cathode. This results in stresses on both electrodes. They don't "pack" as efficiently as when the battery was first built, leading to lithium plating on the cathode, and cracks forming in the graphite anode. These cracks reduce the sites for lithiation when you next charge the battery. It also starts to break down the SEI layer around the anode particles, which causes other problems with cell stability.

[@HyproTube]

The "parking cars" analogy really made this video IMHO. Nicely done!

[@theelectricmonk3909]

As a direct result of your videos, I now only charge my battery to 70-80%, and recharge it when it reaches 50-60% (assuming I'm not doing a big trip - in which case I'll charge it to 100% the night before). Hopefully, when my car goes on to it's second owner in 18 months time, they'll thank me for looking after the battery!

[@Nordlicht05]

This will get massively interesting when a norm test for used cars will be applied.

[@Jay-me7gw]

I charge my bolt 40 to 60% for my typical daily use, or basically every day.

[@gransergranser9756]

😂😂

[@simonpaine2347]

You definitely need to charge your battery to 100% every couple of months, because this balances the cells. If you are not doing this you run the risk of damaging the battery.

[@Nordlicht05]

@@simonpaine2347 this should be implemented stock that the pack didn't get damaged. If not I think people saying EVs will burn more often comes to reality

[@M-J-P]

When I see whiteboard in background at the intro, I am glued to watch. Excellent presentation of topics and in such a plain language. Keep up the good work sir. hats off to you.

[@vl3005]

I had to stop the video to comment this - the parking lot analogy is just genius, man. I can't stop smiling at this. 😂

[@MURD3R3D]

Truly the only way I'll explain it from now on. So freaking good

[@mikeforwarduk]

not original to EE though

[@adamgardner3364]

Elon used the same analogy about a year ago explaining it to Joe Rogan. Not saying he invented the analogy either, just that it is a relatable way to explain the observation that fast charging seems to slow down a lot at 80%.

[@vl3005]

@@mikeforwarduk Oh, I wasn't necessarily giving him credit for INVENTING it, just for introducing me to it.

[@Mathis218337]

I like the pouring a cup of water example

[@BugMagnet]

This whiteboard was glorious! Also it confirms my reasoning behind the MG4 I am leasing with an LFP battery. No home charging for me, so I take a battery I can torture without having to fret over degradation before the lease expires and if I find an AC slot at work, I can just push it to 100% without worrying too much either. (The car has 100 other issues but at least battery life is not one. You don't get these cars in the states I think, so maybe that is of interest)

[@theelectricmile474]

lol for the LFP from MG, just ac charge once a month from less than 10% to 100% and you should be fine.

[@CarkeekW]

You will never kill that battery in the lease period

[@BugMagnet]

@@CarkeekW eeexactly And it is really good to see that the industry is coming from Rapidgate, Coldgate and general Nissan leaf type issues and moves to "Your car dies before its battery does" in just a decade.

[@georgepelton5645]

Great job taking a complex topic and presenting an accurate and understandable summary. One minor point about the Leaf battery: "Air cooled" usually means active air cooling, usually with forced air, or at least fins to transfer heat from the source to the surrounding air. The Leaf has neither. The battery is sealed, with no outside airflow over the cells. There is a fan that only recirculates air inside the pack to help keep the cells at an even temperature, but it does not cool the cells. "Passive cooling" would be a better description for the Leaf.

[@benjaminfeddersen7937]

This channel does the hands-down best, most accurate explainers of li-ion batteries I've ever seen anywhere on the internet. They're comprehensive where they need to be but gloss over a lot of the details where appopriate to give end-users a high-level grasp of the dynamics without trying to be PhD electrochemistry seminars.

[@flyforfun3757]

Great info as always. Have you thought of doing a video about the effects of high discharge rates and its effects on degradation ? (hard acceleration, high speed driving, frequent towing)

[@playyourturntodieatvgperson]

id love to see this, i know its very important to Formula E with regards to regenerative breaking

[@mribi]

I’d love that too

[@marcinnzk9157]

Would be amazing to see 3D graph of degradation that occures: and on three Axels: 1Temp, 2 Charging speed, 3 SoC -at storage Thanks for telling us that, best condensed source of knowledge.

[@custard131]

a lot of great info as always but i am a little dissapointed in that final graph / values changing multiple variables at once i guess its just been overlooked but feels like there was important info in either a 1.5C charging to 93% or 0.5C charge to 82% line which has been hidden

[@TheMeetball1]

I've been watching engineering explained for years and just realized I haven't subscribed yet.. I went ahead and subscribed on every account I own as an interest rate. All jokes aside, your videos and the breakdowns are incredibly detailed and can be taken at face value as factual evidence. Amazing as always.

[@TheWineroute]

Good work. Best quality on KZbin. I've been driving electric for 5 years, never think about it anymore.

[@dumbodum]

at this point I feel like the batteries will outlive the car itself, it seems most cars are only driven for around 15 years on average until they are scrapped

[@BrokeMahWallet]

@@dumbodumcause manufacturers want people to throw out their old cars and get new ones, they don’t care about sustainability anymore, that’s why older cars last longer are more reliable than new ones… not gonna go in depth cause there’s a few additional variables that contribute to it.

[@ChristopherFehrenbacher]

Every time I use the parking example to explain batteries and charging, it's a light-bulb moment for people. It is my favorite analogy for the uninformed and greatly lubricates the rest of the conversation about EVs'

[@gery4870]

Wow ! Amazing explanation Jason !! At the beginning was really concerning, but, at the end, you realize how all the SW and algorythms, prevent batteries from dregadation, as much as possible. Thanks for these tech EV videos !!!

[@milinddixit6583]

Great video. I've seen so many KZbinr car reviews on EVs where they take it to a fast charger and complain that it's not getting the full quoted charging speed. Now I know it's because the battery is too cold or too hot so it limits the charge rate, or the current charge is already 30%+ already and so it limits the rate. I also think the reduction in range on older EVs is caused not solely by battery degradation like most people assume. It could be the parts inside the EV motors not working as efficiently as they used to when it was new, or any number of the components in-play between the motor and driven wheels that aren't operating like-new. Friction, parts wear etc. Or it might also be how efficient the battery heating / cooling systems are working after many years of use. This is no different to ICE cars that get less efficient / powerful over time as parts wear etc. The difference though is battery degradation is fairly well known since most people know about it ever since rechargeable batteries became a common thing in phones, laptops etc. So it's easier to understand and therefore easier to use as a criticism of EVs. In fairness though - battery degradation is somewhat irreversible compared to degradation in ICE efficiency which can be solved by just replacing parts etc. And range isn't a factor for ICE since it's so quick to fill up so nobody notices or cares that much even if their car was maybe getting 80% of the original efficiency.

[@nussed]

What would cause the battery to degrade faster? I'm planning a 350 km trip. I have two options: I can charge the battery at home slowly to 95%, drive until it drops to 10%, and then reach my destination. Alternatively, I can charge the battery at home to the recommended 80%, make a quick stop for a 10-15 minute fast charge, and arrive at my destination with around 20% battery remaining.

[@samueladitya1729]

the battery should last long enough for average driver before you get tired, unless you take turn in driving. Charge up to 100% the night before the trip, it won't degrade much if you discharge it quickly. If possible only stop at rest area with fast chargers, charge to 80%, but you don't have to wait to reach that. Once you're done with resting or snack, you unplug and go on.

[@Frygisk]

My rule of thumb is to charge as slow as practically possible, and to the percentage necessary. My 2017 model S is frequently supercharged and charged at home each night. 250.000 km later it's at 8% degredation. Just use the car how it's most practical to you, otherwise why have one?

[@user-vj5kb4gr6v]

This was all explained in a very lucid, down to earth manner. My biggest take away from this video, though was that for the rest of his videos, I can just watch the conclusions and take it for granted that everything he says is well thought out, science based, and accurate! Thanks for the great video and lesson!

[@Why_250_Vortex]

Check the battery spec sheet on NMC vs LFP batteries from their manufacturers, they show that LFPs will have higher cycle numbers, but you will notice that they are rated at a lower C rate. Often 0.5C vs 1C on NMC batteries. Meaning NMC batteries probably have a higher cycle life if used with the same discharge rate. This difference is magnified if you look at tests of NMC vs LFP cycle life tests on higher discharge rates.

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

Yes, so it is a good thing the Model S Plaid and Rimac Nevera use NMC. For almost everything else it doesn’t matter.

[@pinerock9668]

I've looked at a lot of battery data sheets and I can say lfp will still last a lot longer even at a 1c rate. The worst thing with lfp is the inability to stop charging at 80% which can lead to frequent cycling at the top end which can make lfp cycle life less than double nmc. Lfp should otherwise be 2-3x the cycle life of nmc

[@em05156]

It's cool you posted all your sources. Unfortunatelly, quite rare nowadays.

[@walpoleandworcester]

Welcome back, EE! Always wondered about this, especially with regards to iPhones. Mine is at 93% capacity for example.

[@sethsalberg3678]

Have a 13 Pro Max. Purchased new when they first came out three or so years ago. Hardly ever fast charge and follow the 20%, 80% mostly. The battery health screen shows 99% capacity.

[@cutehumor]

I used a charging pad daily and my iPhone had 92 percent after one year. The phone got hot with these charging pads. I changed to plugging it in and battery been on 92 percent for a while

[@PlaaTable]

We back at the big whiteboard fully covered with small font. I LOVE IT!

[@djayjp]

Btw the latest Porsche doesn't reduce C rate and maintains an obscenely high rate of charge throughout the SoC range.

[@GooseWurkz]

I would love if you posted high-res photos of your white boards for each video, they are so cool!

[@MattH-wg7ou]

I concur, thats a good idea!

[@TheDwightMamba]

I run Bosch cordless tools and EGO landscaping tools. The Bosch 18V has a chip for the charger that will run lifetime mode on the batteries, keeping them between 20-80%. Cool feature. With the EGO stuff, I wish they made a backpack that alternates the batteries from trigger to trigger. I bought a 2nd chainsaw to stop swapping batteries every few cuts to keep the heat down. Now I just swap saws after every big slice. More than doubles the runtime of a battery. Heat is the enemy just as much during discharge, if not more!

[@theblackhand6485]

It’s all about good good engineered written software. If all parameters are used the customer or consumer doesn’t have to think about any but driving. I’ll guess that’s where cars are made for. Otherwise we are still in the same era of stress as dropping diesel in your gasoline car. That’s so passé!

[@samueladitya1729]

I think we should be given advanced mode, because it's impossible for the computer to know what we're thinking or our plan. Maybe program the computer to accept voice command, like "hey car, I'm not going to use you for the next 2 months" then the computer discharges battery to 60% for storage to reduce degradation. "hey car I'm in a emergency, charge up the car asap" then the computer tells the consequences for charging with too low temperature then start charging immediately. or "hey car, I'm on a long trip tomorrow, charge to full capacity"

[@Conservator.]

5:41 Brilliant analogy especially because it’s automotive related. 🤩

[@BerkleyJ]

I'm not sure who came up with this analogy, but Elon Musk has used it a few times when discussing charge rates.

[@D0praise]

Agreed, very good analogy

[@4rwayner7]

I didn’t know how to ask an electric car question directly so took this route. On Tom Mologny(sp) State of Charge channel he said you wouldn’t recover the same energy expended driving into a headwind as you would when travelling back with an equal tailwind. I questioned that and a couple people gave more emotional answers than scientific. My belief is that the cd going forward is much lower than going backward to begin with and if the same the resulting force would be the same. I would appreciate if you could discuss this. Maybe even a new video. Thanks.

[@SpottedSharks]

Good question. I would image that with a good tailwind, you would want a higher cd so the wind would have more surface area on the rear to push. But maybe it creates more drag elsewhere I am not considering.

[@snakeeater337]

Seems like a lot of the science behind smaller devices still stands (30-80% battery charge where possible, slower charging is generally better), but I think my real concern with electric vehicles is more to do with how disposable people seem to treat them. Noticing a trend, at least in the UK, where people will disregard good charging habits because they're only keeping them 3 years and then immediately buying a new one, they never have it long enough to care. I do suspect the second hand market will become quite flooded with EVs with at least semi-degraded batteries as time goes on. This is a bit more societal than specifically relating to the tech though, I do appreciate there's a lot of sorry ICE vehicles out there which have never seen an oil change.

[@deanmcmanis9398]

A lot of people treat gas-only cars the same way, especially near-luxury models. And that is because of the uncertainty of needed, expensive repairs. BEVs are probably not going to have any problems with battery pack charging capacity for 15-20 years, but biased media coverage spreads the lie that EV batteries only last 4-5 years, and then cost a fortune to replace. As more, newer BEVs become more common, people see that high mileage EVs are just fine, and newer battery chemistries extend battery life, and drive replacement costs down even further, then people will be more confident that BEVs will cost less to operate, and maintain.

[@lowercase13]

Keep in mind Elon Musk said that the LFP battery pack in one model of his cars "likes" to be at 100%, which, as it turns out, was complete wrong.

[@BlazeFirereign]

@@lowercase13 The LFP pack frequently wants to see 100% so that the BMS remains accurately calibrated. That's separate to degradation. LFP _cells_ don't "like" being at 100%, but they don't suffer particularly harsh degradation at 100% in the same way that NMC does, so it was deemed a worthwhile trade-off to recommend a 100% charge limit.

[@dmac7660]

Totally agree! People are too lazy to keep their iPhones between 20 and 80%. Especially when the phone contract is 2 years. Who cares? But if you want a car to last longer habits have to change.

[@waynerussell6401]

@@lowercase13 NOPE. Its the BMS that likes to at 100% because it can't accurately determine SOC for LFP. Tesla says charge to 100% once a week.

[@derekcoble2215]

I got a 2020 Niro a month ago. 82k miles. EPA rated for a 240 mile range. It says to charge to 100% once a month so I did when I first got it and its estimated range was 294 miles (with climate off... 277 miles when I turned on the AC). That was a pleasant surprise. I gave it a chance to learn my driving style, and charged it to 100% a few days ago and with no climate control my estimated range was 330 miles! No idea how the previous owner charged it, but it doesn't seem to have degraded much at all.

[@JSFGuy]

I have RC aircraft and lipo battery I do not charge more than 3 amp do not use fast charge option. Also when it's cool out never overheat.

[@ralfbaechle]

The funny thing is that when charging at low currents only you also get the savings on the cheaper charger. And those can be substantial when talking about a vehicle charger where for fast charging an upgrade of the electric installation might be required.

[@Nordlicht05]

3a? How big is the battery? I usually stop at 1a and if it should be fast around 1,5-2 😅 I now have a not often used 5000mah PAC wich lookes Like Ballon with flammable fluid to burn something down. The pack is in the garden waiting to be drained to 0volts for disposal.

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

@@Nordlicht05 An iPad charges at 3A. I suppose it depends on which battery you pick for your plane, but it is probably much larger than an iPad. Charging at such slow rates is not protecting anything.

[@Nordlicht05]

@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 yes normally they say for RC battery 1c is with no problems. These batteries are more likely life limited because of extensive hig amp discharging. My 5000 battery I could I I want with 5 A ore a little more charge.

[@Nordlicht05]

@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 iPads to often have 2-4 times bigger capacity than a rc plane. Can be 1000mah or bigger. But you normally have lipo batteries smaller than 4000mah for planes due to weight. So charging a 1500 with 3amp maybe tolerable for these high performance do not last long batteries but I play always save. I know when I want to go out and plan accordingly. If an iPad is charged like RC battery's you could go from 6 to 11amp to get 1c

[@susiespanish1337]

This is one of the best explained and most enjoyable videos to watch, period. Now I can put my DC charging anxieties to rest! Thank you!

[@motorv8N]

Great explanation - thanks! I’ve dialed back the amps on my Level 2 home charger from 32 to 22 for this reason but after seeing this perhaps once you’re down in L2 charging territory even max amps is a pittance compared to DC fast charge and doesn’t really matter.

[@harvey66616]

Yeah, I think you're right. I looked at the C for my 32A charger. With the 77 kWh battery in my EV6, the 7.7 kW amounts to a C of 0.1, which is so far below the limits being discussed here as to be inconsequential. The state of charge limit, on the other hand, is still relevant. I only charge to 80% on a day to day basis, and always charge when I get home, so the battery generally is staying between 50% and 80% of charge at all times. Between this video and others (including ones on this channel), it seems likely that will allow the battery to _easily_ outlast the rest of the components in the car. It'll probably have to be junked because some critical computer chip that isn't made any more fails, long before the battery's a problem. :)

[@simonpaine2347]

Don't forget to charge to 100% every couple of months. This balances out all the cells. Failing to do this can also degrade the battery.

[@motorv8N]

Thanks - I had a feeling we are talking very small loads compared to DC fast. Being able to keep that Lvl 2 going full tilt shortens my tops up times at home by a couple hours. Back to 42 amps then.

[@motorv8N]

The “charge to 80% only” recommendation confuses me tho as Mini (we’ve got a 2021 SE) recommends charging to 100 all the time. I don’t know if that’s because our little 32 KWh battery is only 28 usable or not.

[@harvey66616]

@@motorv8N sure. I don't know the specifics of the Mini battery, but if they've already built in some buffer at either end of the state of charge, then 100% charge 100% of the time might be just fine. In any case I'd say manufacturer's owner's manual would usually trump general advice, even well documented and supported advice as seen here.

[@jsinope2786]

I love this explanation. High level broken down in chunks thats easy to digest. Two questions… why do they say that driving your car under high load (towing/hard acceleration) can degrade the battery and why does the car charge slowly when at a low SOC if there are plenty of “parking spaces” on the graphite cathode for the Li+?

[@jimrusch22]

There is a video floating around on YT regarding a Tesla owner who uses his car for intensive ride share. He puts on 30K miles a year and almost exclusively fast charges. A little after 3 years and without warranty the battery failed. Still owning a significant amount of money on a 5 year loan, he regrets purchasing an electric vehicle.

[@by9917]

I've been driving EVs for more than 10 years. Some were leases so the ownership was not that long and one was a Bolt and I couldn't take it very long (POS), but I've never seen any degradation on any in the relatively short time I've owned them. My current car, an MME, is the one I driven the furthest and it is the only one that is mostly DCFC (almost exclusively). I don't worry about it.

[@stevehoot99]

This is part of the adoption issue. If you can't charge at home, then fast charging is your only option. 50k miles isn't a lot, and to lose 30% capacity when most EV's still have a realistic range of under 300 miles from new, then for medium to heavy use drivers EVs aren't there yet... Easily getting 550+ miles from a tank of diesel is normal, can be a similar cost to fill up compared to fast charging (which are extortionate compared to charging at home), the mpg is pretty much the same when the new or has 150k on the clock plus the time to refuel is still much faster using diesel. This makes EVs ideal for richer households If you can charge at home and you are driving less than 10k miles a year it's perfect. EVs are still a good few $k extra than the diesel version, also making it more likely for richer households Although the extra CO2 emissions for production means the environmental break even point means you'll need to keep the car for about 5 - 6 years, something richer households are unlikely to do which kind of screws up the green argument for EVs. If you are charging at public fast chargers then it's going to be a similar cost to using ICE, costs more to buy, has less range and takes longer to charge. For rich households (own driveway for home / slower charging) who do low to moderately millage then EVs are a no brainer. For lower income households (no private driveway for at home, slower charging) who do moderate to high mileage then diesel makes more sense. Because of this nuance government targets are crazy in my opinion. We need far, far more public chsrgers with fees that are about half of current rates, and technology that allows for real life range of 400 - 500 miles on a single charge. And that minimum of 400 miles needs to apply to a car with 100k+ on the clock. All of that with the ability to put real life 400 miles minimum range in the tank in under 10 minutes. EVs are the future for the majority of consumer driving. But we're not at they point technically or economically, and unlikely to be there for another decade at least.

[@harvey66616]

The 50K mile report was for a Nissan LEAF, which has a _far_ inferior battery chemistry and technology (no active temperature management) as compared to modern EV designs. EVs are ideal for richer households because they are still expensive, not because of any problems with the battery. As lower-cost EVs become available, those who can charge at home will still find them more convenient and less expensive (nothing so expensive as being poor, unfortunately :( ), but it will be practical for people without access to at-home charging to own an EV, at least without having to worry about battery degradation. (Unfortunately, since charging costs are much higher at public stations than at home, such owners won't enjoy one of the biggest benefits of EVs, i.e. the drastically lower fuel costs. But they will still see the higher efficiency, especially when driving day to day in traffic. Even since I have been driving EVs, I almost _enjoy_ getting stuck in a traffic jam, because while everyone else's gas mileage is going to crap, my energy efficiency is being improved by the slower driving speeds! :) ) Edit: In other words, while there are challenges to electrifying personal transportation, battery health isn't one of them. A big one is just sourcing all the parts for the cars...the supply chain isn't ready to be fully electric yet. Nor is the grid. But no one is proposing that EV adoption happen overnight, and it's pretty clear at this point that hopes to make all global sales electric by 2030 is a pipe dream. Even if the manufacturers could manage that -- and they can't -- the infrastructure isn't up to the challenge yet. But the fact is, if infrastructure _were_ up to the challenge, the technology itself would work perfectly fine for the vast majority of consumers. On the other hand, you know what technology _does_ work great for the vast majority of consumers? Public transportation. EVs are great, but continuing our dependency and love affair with personal motor vehicles is a fool's game. Especially in the urban areas where we have the high concentrations of population, reallocating funds to focus on public transit rather than just paving highways wider and wider would dramatically reduce transportation costs and emissions. We're always going to need cars, but for most people day to day movements can and should be addressed with other more efficient, less costly means.

[@DavidSmith-kd8mw]

I don't think your point on the environmental breakeven point for rich households is valid. After all even if the rich household doesn't keep an EV for 5 or 6 years they won't just throw the car away. It will get sold to another user and will continue to carry passengers without consuming petrochemicals.

[@jnawk83]

Most of the adoption issues are fears that just don't really pan out for the majority of use cases. Yes there are some exceptions, but for most people in the world, low (ish) range and slow (ish) charging is actually perfectly workable. Then there's the USA where distances are routinely enormous.

[@harvey66616]

@@jnawk83 _"there's the USA where distances are routinely enormous"_ -- common misconception. There are some places in the US where a person might live 50 miles from services, sure. But that's _far_ from routine. The vast majority of the US population lives in urban or suburban centers. In 2021 average distance traveled per day was ~30 miles, down from 40 miles in data five years earlier. Heck, I live in what is considered a rural area, nearest grocery, restaurant, doctor, etc. is 20 minutes, and even so a typical day of driving is usually under 50 miles and _never_ more than 100. The US has a much larger population than most other countries, and so in terms of absolute numbers we do have more people who have to drive very large distances every day. But even in the US, the relative _percentage_ of these people is exceedingly small. For those living under _routine_ conditions in the US, _"low (ish) range and slow (ish) charging"_ is just as workable as in other places around the world, which is to say, very much so.

[@cachememory]

@@DavidSmith-kd8mwstill EVs are throwaway products like smartphones. All are the same and every year a new one comes out, which is „better“ 🤷‍♂️

[@FieroGT3400]

so, as in many things in life, it's all about a compromise! balance the good and bad. no 1 correct answer. 3 thumbs up!

[@derived-doom]

Danke! It's important to get these info into the head. Most stories about battery packs dying after 50K is based on tech from 2010. Fast charging was an issue with my old car (air cooled battery) - now Rapid-/Cold-Gate is of the past and I can't see any relevant degredation after 60K+ miles...

[@EngineeringExplained]

De nada amigo, thanks for your generosity!

[@igor6559]

Thankfully there is people who put effort to explain from research point of view about BEV good use discipline, thank you!

[@omgyeti2049]

Just an anecdote, but roughly 40% of my charging is done at fast chargers, and my 2022 Model Y is at 85% of original capacity at 60,000 miles. I’m well below fleet average for that mileage according to Tessie(92% capacity). Like I might actually end up with a warranty claim if this keeps up. What’s weird is it isn’t a linear curve either, I have about 4 instances where my max range suddenly went down by 7-10 miles within a week.

[@samusaran7317]

You're probably charging past 85% on a dc charger huh? That'll do it 😂

[@Steamrick]

I think the linearity thing is more that it's difficult to measure degradation and range loss without regularly doing a 0-100% cycle for calibration purposes.

[@wpgspecb]

@@samusaran7317 the cars restrict charging speed after 80%.

[@BlazeFirereign]

Tessie's estimate is exactly that - an estimate. And the max range number reported by the car is not solely based on the health of the battery. (Your battery isn't going to suffer multiple percentage points of degradation over the course of one week.) Even if the 15% degradation is accurate, based on the data out there, it's unlikely that the amount of fast charging you've done is a significant contributor to that.

[@BlazeFirereign]

@@samusaran7317 Teslas are typically below a 1C charge rate by the time they reach 85% on a DCFC. I've occasionaly had to rapid charge to 100%, the rate is typically below 40kW by the time it's over 90%, which is closer to 0.5C on the higher capacity packs.

[@simoneh4732]

Absolutely loving that you keep pumping out the battery info. Thanks!

[@dyhppyx]

Anecdotal evidence. My 2018 model 3 performance can still go 250-260 miles after 212,000 miles while 100% supercharging. The takeaway is don't worry about it. It doesn't make much of a difference if you have a Tesla. If you insisted on buying some other ev then I can't help you.

[@cerial0411]

This video drives home a question I have always wondered about Hybrids or Plug in Hybrids. Why don't they place the Battery pack between the bucket seats in the center of the car as a center console? This would increase the COG and MAY require a smaller pack. It could help with weight imbalance though. This would increase the serviceability letting the home mechanic service these or swap packs without a hoist and specialized equipment. Most Importantly this would keep the battery inside the car where it is lets say 70 degrees inside the car with a external of -10F while the thing is charging. By doing this you lessen the chance of degradation. You can easily regulate the temperature easier then having the pack exposed to the elements. If the pack is getting to hot you could have the windows crack open 1/4" momentary with rain sensors to prevent issues there. Further external temps you could potentially have the car start if it detects sunshine(outside) turning on the hvac/pumps to cool or heat the pack further that way. When things like flooding or salted snowy roads happen the pack is up higher and inside the car protected better then one bolted to the underside. Maybe you can go into the pro's and cons I am overlooking in a future video.

[@SkepticalCaveman]

Fast charging should be used only 1% of the time anyway. 99% of the time you should slow charge, unless you make long trips regulary. More slow chargers are needed, every parking lot should have slow chargers preferably with a solar roof that not only generates electricity, but also gives shade for the cars so the AC can be used less. Instead of a single 350kWh fast charger for 1 car, 35 cars could charge with 11kWh each. It just makes more sense, when cars are parked most of the time anyway.

[@johuitzing919]

You don’t get it,fastcharging is the future,nobody want’s wait for 4 hours .

[@SkepticalCaveman]

@@johuitzing919 you're the one don't get it. You don't wait beside when you charge, you're either sleeping , working, shopping etc... you don't have to be near your car while it's getting charged. If you can slow charge everywhere you can park then there is no need for fast charging. Fast charging is only meant for long trips when your distance exceed your battery capacity.

[@logitech4873]

​@@johuitzing919 Clearly you don't own an EV

[@johuitzing919]

@@logitech4873 i do own an EV

[@johuitzing919]

@@SkepticalCaveman ,slow charging you can do at home.

[@johnbumstacker]

Thank you. Whiteboards still, and always will bring a sense of dread. But with your delivery, and the occasional virtual Pause, I have the time to digest what school didn't allow.

[@gyuunyuu]

does flooring the accelerator degrade the battery?

[@A-BYTE64]

Nope

[@castroorstad8215]

Yes

[@Steamrick]

Anything degrades the battery. Even just letting it sit and do nothing degrades it. So drive the way you like to and have fun with it.

[@Nordlicht05]

Its the same with engines. Use it always at peak power it will wear faster. But who knows what fast even means?

[@RandomGuy-om1vy]

cycles matter. if the way you floor requires you to charge more than usual, yes it will degrade. if not, no.

[@c.simmons2147]

Can I just say how great these videos are? We are entering a whole new world of cars with EVs and with that new world comes new "common knowledge" that we all have to learn. These three videos were maybe the first I have really seen of that.

[@YAOCharge]

Hello, our company recently launched a new electric vehicle charging product. Are you interested in learning more about it? The new charging pile has a fast charging speed and little damage to the electric vehicle. It also supports customized services. According to your design requirements, we can make a charging pile for you in your own style. Because it is a new product, our boss specially allows the new product to participate in the promotion in order to expand sales. Are you interested in learning more about the product?

[@punditgi]

You are an engineering guy who attracts lots of technical and even global audiences. Maybe a good idea to always include metric as well as Imperial? Hope so. And glad to have you back! 🎉😊

[@deanmcmanis9398]

Great video, as usual. I was waiting for a correlation between fast charging and dendrite formation. But you just talked about plating as the main problem with battery longevity.

[@JSFGuy]

It's that time again y'all.

[@lukecrandall1906]

The parking lot analogy is very helpful to me, makes sense in my mind I appreciate your knowledge, again.

[@BCNeil]

Manufacturers once warned against fast charging too often. Now they don't really talk about it.

[@james2042]

Because they engineered solutions to it as technology progressed

[@criticalevent]

Tesla warns you a couple years in with an error message on the screen letting you know you've irreversibly degraded your battery capacity and that your speed of DC charge is now limited.

[@wpgspecb]

The Subaru Solterra/Toyota BZ4X restricts you to 3 DC fact charging cycles per 24 hours (it used to be 2 until a software update). They arent the greatest value in the EV market, but the Toyota model offered a 1,000,000 kilometer battery warranty. Further they aggressively restrict the kW input after 80% SOC and 100% SOC on the dash is actually about 95% SOC in the diagnostics. They seem to be one of the more conservative manufacturers on the market.

[@berttroubleyn3475]

@@criticalevent They only did that with the old 70, 75 and 85 packs. No issues with cars from model year 2017 and onwards.

[@criticalevent]

@@berttroubleyn3475 Saw it on my 2020 already.

[@RyanWilliams222]

2:53 Someone smarter than me once said, “If it begs the question, it does not raise a question.” I don’t like that person because now I’m cursed to notice it whenever someone misuses the phrase “begs the question.” On the plus side, this is a good video!

[@Conservator.]

One should aim to fast charge only if there are no alternatives. Apart from your battery, it’s much more convenient to charge at your destination instead of underway to wherever you’re going. Cities need to provide street charging in areas where people don’t have the option to charge at home.

[@diydrivenGA]

Agreed. There is a growing movement to get level 2 in many places like parking lots, public parking, parks, etc. It's not always about getting a full charge asap, but rather covering 20-40 miles in a few hours.

[@nthgth]

Just use gas. 3 minutes, 450+ miles' range, no degradation for 40+ years. That's what "they" need to provide for EVs, and at no additional cost vs gas.

[@Conservator.]

@@nthgth Your thinking is that of someone who wants an EV to behave like an ICE vehicle but when you can charge at home, you will hardly ever have to stop when underway to your destination. When at home all you’ve got to do is plug in the charger. Filling up your car with gas will take much longer than 3 minutes btw. It’s at least double that and more realistically 10 minutes. EVs need less maintenance too.

[@diydrivenGA]

@@nthgth all exaggerations from you... What ICE, non hybrid is getting 450+ that isn't a on-its-last-leg golf diesel? No degradation? As a Diyer and ICE owner for two decades....there is absolutely degradation on ICE powertrains. All that maintenance from fluids to timing chains to plugz coil, solenoid, wiring harness, fuses, etc is to chase the original performance which absolutely degrades but can be extended for a few grand a year.

[@nthgth]

@@Conservator. Nah, it's 3 minutes. Ish. Call it five. Same point. And MANY people can't charge at home.

[@TodorTashev]

Just the time and effort it took to make the drawing board look like that deserves admirations and wins the like button.

[@siberx4]

Joke's on you, my Bolt only "fast" charges at 0.85C at best, so my battery will last forever!

[@fwebe2871]

Take away: Don't use your maximum battery capacity if you don't have to and consider this when buying a car. When 80% is still considered enough, you shouldn't need 80% in the first place, which in return means 20% to 80% (60% of max) should be the range, you are using most of the time. The user manuals often enough point this out and even consider different scenarios. As mentionend, if you don't have the time or abillity to monitor your car on every step, use LFP over MNC.

[@jlcii]

Or just say screw it and go get a hybrid or fuel efficient gas car

[@Starship007]

Model X and S are all aluminum. EV’s can be forever cars. Tesla working for NO SERVICE CARS, just maintenance like tires and windshield wiper fluid. I own a 2017 model X, I bought new. Never been to a service center. Only maintenance have been tires. I charge at home with Solar and save $500/month on electricity and gas. No oil filters in landfills every 6000 miles. No petrochemical odors in car. Still drives like new with no rattles. I have owned 5 Tesla’s and also own a Porsche. Porsche Panamera 4S rarely driven. My model X had fSD. My new model Y with FSD is amazing for what it can go. I am a pilot. I understand autopilots. Tesla is amazing. No other companies can compare to Tesla. I was a gear head in the past. Minimal maintenance spoils you. I have invested in Tesla. They are an energy company as well as AI. It’s not just their cars.

[@logitech4873]

There's many parts that will wear out. "I have owned 5 teslas" doesn't really communicate a trust in their longevity. Why are you not still on your first Tesla?

[@Jay-me7gw]

I know several people that have had to replace drive units on Teslas 1 or 2 times, and not at as high of miles as you might think.

[@Jay-me7gw]

@@logitech4873seriously, I love that. Like the guy I saw the other day commenting about how great ram trucks are and how he’s on his 8th one 😂. Like even if he started buying them in the 1980’s he’s still only keeping each one 5 years on average

[@jnawk83]

I had a 2014 model S, was a right lemon. (All regular car stuff, the power/drive train was fine)

[@filmklipper1322]

I would love if you make a video about Reving cold engines. Like cars with plug in hybrid do.

[@prilep5]

This why people who live in apartment buildings or don’t have a garage for overnight slow charging don’t want EV. This should be discussed in congress where politicians and lawyers should understand that just throwing money to something because you can print as much as you want won’t change the law of nature and physics (and common sense)

[@Luka_3D]

It's just a red tape issue at this point

[@artos6209]

I live in a condo and have no place to plug in at home. I would be entirely reliant on fast chargers for my charging needs. The closest I will come to an ev is a conventional hybrid, and even that will be a stretch for the foreseeable future. At least until the technology gets much better.

[@Luka_3D]

​@@artos6209 What about cheap slow chargers at grocery stores, gyms, work and cinemas? Would that work for you?

[@logitech4873]

Just implement right to charge so that people in apartments can easily get chargers

[@PlaylistWatching1234]

"EVs won't work for most Americans because landlords are too cheap to run extension cords outside." -sadly possibly true

[@2._-1.-_]

Thank you! I drive my model Y so little, I treat it like it's in storage. Keep at 50%. I had a spare 240/30 amp breaker, so with the 2nd gen charger you can buy different plugs based on plug/circuit capacity. It knows to charge at the correct current draw. The 240/30 amp plug charges at 24 amps. I assume that's slow enough.

[@str11pes]

im so paranoid I only charge from home to 70%

[@A-BYTE64]

You should not have bought Electric Car

[@pawel7196]

@@A-BYTE64 personality matter - I wouldn't buy any expensive car because I'm worried about uninsured youngster without driving license hitting my car. Also, you shouldn't go below about 20-30% of your fuel tank (especially in winter) because you'll end up waring your fuel pump/fuel filter faster. Do people worry about it? Hell no!

[@edfx]

@@A-BYTE64 Why? 70% is more than enough for daily commute. I slowcharge nightly to 80%.

[@A-BYTE64]

@@edfx idc

[@benchoflemons398]

I think high C rate charging is going to be worst for your battery than going to 80 or 90% soc.

[@jamesphillips2285]

I heard some people were confused about this video: it only applies to L3 charging. L2 AC charging will typically be at a charge rate closer to 0.1C. I noticed that the study at the end of the video with 0.5C vs 0.5C vs 1.5C did not hold the charge rate constant. But the main variable was the charge end-point (87.5% vs 93% vs 100% SOC).

[@chasejones9057]

Thank you! This is the information I was looking for. I charge my 120Ah BMW i3 almost exclusively (98%+ of the time) at home with a 40W L2, so charging from ~20-100% every 4-6 days should keep me fully within the "safe zone" for the battery.

[@jamesphillips2285]

@@chasejones9057 40A [circuit derated to 32A for continuous operation] L2 @ 240v is [7.7kW]. For a 42kWh battery (conversion taken from wiki page) this results in a charge rate of ([7.7kW]/42kWh) [0.18C] Edit: Wiki page says: "...BMW i Wallbox Pure or any 3rd party charging equipment (EVSE) [supports] 32A ..."

[@garyclark6747]

The only advice I have is absolutely do not buy an electric vehicle unless you can charge it at home on two phase electricity. With 80% of all electricity entering my battery being from a 9 kW AC charging at the house while I sleep; I fear not the 240 kW, I get for 10 minutes of each charge that accumulates to 20% of all electricity brought into the battery. 🤷🏻 14:25

[@logitech4873]

I prefer 3-phase

[@leamgodfrey7445]

Iv had an ev for 7years can’t charge at home, not had a problem

[@garyclark6747]

@@leamgodfrey7445 Some people also walk to work in their bedroom slippers. It depends on the use case but most commuters consume a bit more than a level one (one phase) EVSE can provide during a busy week. If you can charge at work then obviously this rule of thumb would be offset but one fact remains. It takes me seven seconds to charge at home. That’s the time to plug in before I call it a day. This makes life simpler than any other method if you drive an EV. Not to mention it’s the least expensive way to charge.

[@leamgodfrey7445]

@@garyclark6747 in the uk we don’t drive as far and we are also less likely to have a drive or garage charging 45mins whilst you watch a film really isn’t that inconvenient

[@UloPe]

I can’t charge at home and have had absolutely zero issues with that in the past year of owning an EV.

[@punditgi]

Many thanks for your excellent explanations! Always first rate. 🎉😊

[@4MB1T1OUS]

Fast charging has killed phones, laptops, and so much stuff in my house. I use all my devices plugged in, but cars don't run on the road while plugged in.

[@A-BYTE64]

So not true

[@snakeeater337]

Using devices when plugged in used to be far worse than fast charging could ever be. If they've got decent battery controllers then that's one thing as they will usually keep it in the safe range, but I would bet not at all of them do.

[@Piotrek7654321]

Keeping your batteries at 100% all the time is killing them...

[@A-BYTE64]

@@Piotrek7654321 that is what most people do

[@DCSPORTSTER]

@@Piotrek7654321 well I can tell you that’s not true I have a tablet at home I leave it plugged in 90% of the time. I got over 10 years out of the last tablet battery still wasn’t done. If you want to you could leave it unplugged all day it still wouldn’t go dead when using it. I’m not buying what you’re selling. I also do that with my phone when I’m at home using it it’s an iPhone 12 battery still good. Other friends only plug their phones in when they’re dead and they have changed their battery once already and are going for their second battery already same phone.

[@spinnetti]

Good stuff. All lessons us electric model airplane guys learned when Li ion first came to the hobby market, and we have computer controlled chargers to manage the charge rate. Do the Tesla superchargers do that? - Charge at a high rate than reduce down as the SOC goes up?

[@astroch]

Standardized batteries + battery swapping.

[@AffidavidDonda]

nah, way too many batteries needed per car + infrastructure + storage + standardized means lousy and 3+ generations old

[@F0XD1E]

Why would you want an inferior, more complicated vehicle for something that won't have to be replaced for hundreds of thousands of miles? That's like wanting a single hot swappable engine in an ICE car.

[@jpe1]

That’s how some electric race cars do it, they swap battery packs in a pit stop.

[@james2042]

I'm never owning an ev with battery swapping. So much complexity for absolutely abysmal gains

[@jpe1]

@@F0XD1E given that electric race cars swap batteries in under 90 seconds, it seems reasonable that street cars could swap in under 5 minutes, which would be much faster than even the fastest DC charging, and avoid battery degradation. But other than Tesla, I don’t think any EVs are designed with swappable battery packs, and it’s clearly not the technology being developed.

[@AndrzejHeller]

Great video that answers many questions I've been asking myself for a very long time. Fast charging isn't as bad as some people think.

[@mikejoseph425]

You are the master of analogy to make any view seem reasonable. My experience in life is that “analogy” is often I misused to make unfair comparisons This does not mean I disagree with you, I simply do not have the knowledge to agree or disagree. Generally I would be inclined to accept your argument if there was less analogy. It reminds me of the childhood joke about asking a spider to walk, which it does. After pulling out the spiders legs you ask the spider to walk, which it does not do, which begs the question: if you pull a spiders legs out, could it be that it goes deaf😅

[@pixino2811]

Great explanations, great sources, great video. You are so intuitive in what you say and so dynamic with the pace of the videos. Love you and your content!🙋👏 My father has an MG4 EV (he needed to change car and I made him choose it over other hybrid or petrol cars) with the 64kWh battery pack, and in 1 month he has already done 3500km, love it. And we usually charge it at AC 11kW public charging stations up to 70% - 80%. I have also seen another MG4 EV with the same battery pack achieving 0% battery degradation over 48000km, surprising, knowing that the degradation tends to be more noticeable within the first thousands of kilometers.

[@Tescam14]

MG4 EV 51 kWh battery is LFP and the others use NMC

[@pixino2811]

@@Tescam14 That's the 51kWh LFP, my father's and the one I saw use 64kWh NMC.

[@michaelguerin56]

Thank you Jason. Always good to get past the PR and hear the truth. Cheers from NZ🇳🇿.

[@nelsonluisfreire8969]

This guy is one of the best engineer issues explainer I know

[@eric31593]

Great video as always!! Any possibility on a solid state video?? Always hear about these 'advancements' but what actually is real vs false hype

[@garycard1826]

Thank you, I watched this video and then the LFP video again. I now have a 220v 48 A charger at my apartment and a 2024 Model 3 RWD with LFP battery. I've been charging to 80% letting it run down and then plugging in again; Reserving Fast charging for longer trips. Once a week I set charge limit to 100%. My question is how low should I let it get before charging?

[@samjohnston4945]

Excellent video! Issues very clearly explained, then rationally summed up. Thank you.

[@fullderp5419]

Thank you, i knew about the individual impacts, but now knowing the overall trade-off is really helpful.

[@0wis105]

Thanks for the very clear video. I was expecting an explanation about the difference between 800V and 400V charging which makes a total difference in terms of usability for fast charging. Is it something that you plan to do ? My research has not come up with significant downsides of 800V vs 400V (apart from cost for manufacturer) and I do not get why it is taking so long to generalise.

[@boyang9828]

will the HEV vehicle like Honda Accord and Toyota Hybrid need to worry about the battery life? can you create a episode to discuss?

[@kellryn18]

Great video! Your explanation of intercalation is simple and intuitive.

[@creamosites]

I rarely precondition battery going to a SC (by navigating just near de SC) 'cause I don't mind having a little more lay time in long trips (charging goes a lil slower then). And for not "waste battery" by heating it, just to eat my lunch in a hurry. Not extreme cold temps here in Spain, but always thought if it's bad habit for the battery degradation... or the automatic slowdown speed of charging really takes care of it.

[@philaoki]

I'd say you can't do much wrong no matter what you do. The BMS will always try to minimize battery degradation and always adjust the charging speed to the given environmental variables. Tesla are and have to be assuming that (most of) their customers don't even think about battery health at any time.