My Take On Honkai Star Rail's HP Inflation ...

[@ChefMKT]

Pokke: Greed and stupidity EOD: Underwear analogy

[@TheDioBrando]

It's not the powercreep itself that is worrying, its the speed. As a person with a long history with Gatcha Games, other games like Arknights and FGO did not tend to turn their meta DPS irrelevant this quickly (Jingliu), nor did they creep up the HP in their endgame modes at this pace. THAT is worrying.

[@ZagXcIv]

100% agree. I’ve been playing Arknights since it released and they didn’t make their meta units irrelevant this quickly. In fact, I think Arknights has very few truly “game breaking” characters. All units have their uses. Whereas HSR units are being made irrelevant a little too quickly. To the point where I stopped spending (I was a light spender before this) because there was no point trying to chase the “Meta” teams and units or collect characters. I still enjoy HSR story, but the rate of new characters being released is very tiring. Especially when we lose 50/50 near hard pity. 😢

[@ariamachi]

I personally think the speed is fine. Jingliu came out in October 2023. Its 2025 right now. Its not worrying at all. The issue with Jingliu was that once 2.0 started the environment changed and ice weak enemies were like non existent. Nowadays with Ice back she can still clear MoC within the cycle limit. Sure she is very clunky (enhanced state being so short) and wont clear as fast as THerta but that's the design of the character that is the issue.

[@TheDioBrando]

@ariamachi I wouldn't say that Jingliu was power crept now, I'd say Acheron did it back in April of 2024. Was she at the depths of what she is today? No, but for her to have been dethroned from Tier 0 within 5-6 months is a bit quick compared to what I've seen in other games and she only kept falling behind from there. It took Silverash years to be truly power crept in Arknights by Surtr and ChenAlter, the same is true for waver and Merlin in fgo.

[@constabrielbell4523]

@@TheDioBrandosilverash wasn’t truly powercrept until mlynar chenalter and surtr had their own place in the meta. One is arts and the other literally the pinnacle spreadshooter but since spreadshooters have naturally bad range chalter isn’t actually used that much.

[@TheDioBrando]

@@constabrielbell4523 I agree, I was giving the worse case scenario for AK in comparison to HSR which power creeps their DPS ceiling around every 6 months

[@PhuongBui-mg7uk]

There is 2 Ways I can think of to addresing Powercreep and HP Inflation. 1. Updating old Characters Kits. 2. Make it easier to obtain new Characters. If they Updating older Unit that means using Manpower and Recources for no money, but its the best solution for the Playerbase. I use to playing Granblue Fantasy where the Dev constanly Updating Older charaters, some are even becomes Meta Units, but knowing Hoyo, well...

[@iri0022]

gbf still reworking older units (also expensive weapon too sometimes) so far i saw nothing regarding rule about rebalancing character in chinese games (some ppl keep talking it but they can't prove it by giving google keywords or something) otherwise yeah, it's just mihoyo don't really want to rework kits, only making future units synergized with older units like sunday to jy

[@ルリ-ruri]

Older characters should get hunt march treatment

[@starpoint27]

3. Don’t implement powercreep and HP inflation

[@wat6440]

yea Another Eden also makes absolute banger reworks, even a release units still meta

[@Zenzen-senpai]

There’s been rumors before that older characters like Kafka, will be able to change paths in the future like March 7th does. These are maybe included in their future plans and still in the works. So I still have my hopes up.

[@dapper-alcremie460]

oh yeah poor hoyoverse, billions aren’t enough for an update my bad, they need trillions now

[@zefriam6885]

The question is: how long will a character stay meta/usable? The problem for me in HSR is the pacing of power creep. It’s too fast for me; I can’t fully enjoy a character if, in 1-3 months, they are no longer good to use. If the underwear is just good for 1-3 months I think there is a problem with the underwear manufacturers not the users.

[@Borovski213]

This now turns into a you problem. Adapting to the situation is what needs to be done here. Using insight on the characters rather than pulling on a whim. For ex, getting FF is a big positive for your account bcs you have one unit that can take on any side whether they are fire weak or not. Another is to invest on supports. I join discussions like this but in truth my e0s1 blade, jy, and jingliu has no problem clearing endgame simply bcs i invested on an e0s1 sunday and e0s0 robin

[@kennethyoung7457]

What character stop being useful after 3 months? People still using Seele, Blade, JIngyuan and Luocha these days. If character being enjoyable means 0 cycle at 2 or 3 cost sure but I actually like using my character because I want to use them not because they were the give me all the jades in endgame button.

[@xysh6086]

The points are valid, but I'm just worried about the pace of the powercreep. It's only been slightly more than 1.5 years since HSR started, but old characters are already severely lacking, and end-game content bosses have so much HP. If the HP powercreep continues, it will be truly crazy 💀

[@aladdict727]

the pace is ludicrous. you get 10-20% increase in hp per cycle. plus, its just lazy. Hoyo just keeps making tanky bosses with dmg reduction or stall mechanics to run out the timer. hell 3.0 has war armor which gives the enemies 10% more dmg reduction. And can be difficult to break since it always refrreshes on their turn and u might have issues breaking it on slower teams

[@Ixs4i]

even then though thats a bit disingenuous. yeah a bunch of 1.x chars are now outdated, but not all of them. himeko got the biggest glowup ever, topaz and ruan mei remain at the top of tier lists, jing yuan gets buffed every time hoyo sneezes. this feeds back to the main point of pulling for characters with long term value over short term hype. but even then, in the recent moc because of the ice weakness jingliu was able to make a resurgence, further emphasizing that the pace of powercreep is not the issue, its just hoyo fucking around and not giving older units environment to shine. imagine in 3.x they make an moc buff that wants to spend skill points because they make a new unit that does that, suddenly dhil qq and sparkle become meta again overnight. or if you wanna do a little leak speculation, look to how much of the future is hp scaling and hp manipulation. i would imagine suddenly blade become relevant again. stuff like that.

[@xysh6086]

@@Ixs4i I have both my Jingyuan and Sunday at E0S1, and they still can't help me 3* moc stage 12. The damage is too low, and from all the recommended clearance lineups, it seems like acheron is needed for that 1 extra star. My DHIL has long since been benched, idk if he will have a dedicated support in the future, but I'm not placing too much hope after seeing my Jingyuan + Sunday. As for Blade, he has never once made it to S tier, and I truly dk if any future HP buff mechanic can save him lol (if there is even one)

[@Steadtfield]

Here's my problem with the underwear analogy, and why it's an apples to oranges type deal. Underwear companies don't create new problems to push you to buy new underwear. So we can't make that type of comparison.

[@liliumjade]

Alternatively think of it like new tech, say like apple phones. It's inevitable that new and better phones will get released. And over time the demand for a newer and more powerful devices increases, as older phone will eventually lose the capacity to support even the basic functions.

[@phonebackup2083]

If we use the apple tech as a use case then apple sneakily encourages the need to upgrade by stopping support and pushing updates that slow down the usability of your device to help push you in that direction.

[@Steadtfield]

@ Correct me if I'm wrong but the only way for old phones to lose their basic functions is if like what @phonebackup2083 said if apple deliberately does what they have been doing so in the past, by sneakily throttling older models with their 'updates'. In which case, this comparison just paints HSR as the same scummy corpo akin to Apple, the only difference is that Apple has been fined before and, HSR remains untouched, while CC's defending HSR continue to treat the issue with kid gloves.

[@Steadtfield]

@ beat me to the reply xD

[@zerospace101]

But most that make underwear make them cheaper than before making them wear faster and needing replacement more often. Same with electronics and a lot of things these days

[@FouCh-q2p]

I think one issue with HSR ironically comes from their monetization being "boring". This makes it such that the only way for HoYo to earn is to sell the new character, rather than alternatives like packs / skins. They recently introduced the new pack of 10 pulls + select a bunch of goodies but before that, it was pretty much welkin + BP. Lots of other gachas have other revenue streams like equipment packs, skins etc that take the pressure off making money solely from character releases.

[@zerospace101]

The new bundles are not worth it except for whales maybe. You need the currency that you can only get with spending actual money. BS.

[@kinohara8635]

I can't believe Hoyo is selling us underwear now... love the analogy.

[@FrozenFrost6866]

i really like the red underwear

[@liliumjade]

Alternatively we can think of the characters like a new tech, for example, apple phones. The new limited character is the new and latest apple phone. Over time there will be a new and improved phone getting released and the need for more powerful tech increases over time. In theory I get it but the rate of how fast a character become obsolete is more of the concern. I think it comes down to Hoyo just selling too many characters too quickly. Which points to Hoyo being the problem in the very end.

[@kuruzaru]

3:58 Pure bs. Sorry, I disagree. At this point just sell skins or something. F2P doesn't spend money anyway. Spenders are pulling for just another shiny toy for collection value or eidolons for 0 cycle purpose. Whales who are pulling for E6S5 everything don't waste 2k$ every 3 weeks to beat MoC! They can 0 cycle on auto no matter what. So this HP inflation nonsense is made for no one. Those who like older units more are angry because they sucks. Those who are pulling for everything new would pull for that anyway because gacha addiction. Those who spend money will continue to spend money. Genshin proved that you can earn a lot of money without crazy powercreep. I cleared current abyss with 500 yo Raiden-Bennett-XQ-XL team. But I still pulled Mavuika and Citlali because I just like these characters. Not because I need them to clear something.

[@BlankSama]

hm, after all this nonsense of hp inflation n powercreep in hsr its a really pain and specially for f2p like me, and that's why now , in my eyes genshin value has increased soo much (even if u say the mavuika powercreep arl debate, both of them r good ). Also in genshin u can do soo much, there is soo much to explore, soo many overworld chest, so its there for everyone Like as f2p now my fear in hsr is that, whats the point of getting this character if they will be powercreept in few patches anyway. Now I don't enjoy hsr that much any more bec of this problem

[@kuruzaru]

@BlankSama I mean. To be completly fair it matters only if you care too much about engame nonsense and you need to get every single star to keep your dick big. If you are ok with missiang a star here and there then it's not a big deal at all. Imagine how dumb someone must to be if you want to waste 160 pulls for a character you don't even like only to get 80 jades more. If you really think about it, it's ridiculous. So if you have your fav characters just enjoy them. Try to build the best possible team around your favs and that is it. Endgame content is not even main source of jades. Story, events and SU content are🙂

[@YungNah-t8f]

@@kuruzaruI don’t think it’s necessarily about the stars and the rewards I think people just enjoy when their characters are strong, it’s more fun when your team performs well and combat is smooth and you’re hitting big damage numbers. As a 1.0 Seele main back in the day she was so fun to play because she just flowed so well with resurgence and she one shot everything… I would still play her if she was still viable. Its nice to hit that flow state where the content challenges you and you are capable enough to take it on but now when you use old units like that it feels like a slog. Idc about getting full stars, but I just want to be able to enjoy taking on the pinnacle content with who I want to

[@kuruzaru]

@ Of course I would like to see big numba on my favs. But it is what it is. I'm playing this game only because of Kafka and Blade. Probably two the most trash units in the game right now. Imagine how I feel when I see Acheron or Feixiao. But I still want to use my Blade, Jingliu or Kafka. I don't want to pull for Feixiao only to get 80 jades when I don't even like her. Blade is cooler and he has better animations than Feixiao. In my opinion of course. I skipped Feixiao. I'm not regret at all.

[@BlueeCatss]

The peoblem with the underwear analogy is that the problems you mentioned are not caused by the company, hoyo makes problems and then sells the solutions, also saying that firefly cant work with the swarm because she is off element is crazy, since she can literally implant weakness

[@lancertheimaginary8462]

Yes Firefly can implant a fire weakness but it still don't get rid of the inherent fire resistance that non-fire weak enemies have, she's still gonna clear a lil slower with enemies who originally don't have fire weakness.

[@Grayewicked]

@@lancertheimaginary8462 The thing is, as a Break DPS, you don't really care about resistances. Since Super Break is so broken anyway, all you need is to be able to Break as quick as you can. That's why Firefly and Boothill are so good, because you get that result immediately. They don't have Rappa's issue of having only half of the weakness breaking efficiency, and the fact that she can't one turn ult without her LC.

[@Mh_ix]

The thing is Hp is a nasty way of making you not see the problem directly Cuz an update or two ago my Acheron would do 700k and take a good chunk of the boss svarog hp now that same 700k tickles him And imma be honest without the MoC buffs thing or the ones that takes hp from enemies it would be impossible to take enemies in a reasonable amount of cycles

[@thatalbeeguy]

my god I am so frustrated and done with star rail because it legit feels like a mini stock market. You invest in one unit, you gauge their shelf life, you account for risks etc. It's not a game, at least not what it's advertised as. There is no skill in combat nor in teambuilding since you dont have the options. You get the BiS and thats it. The game is 99% about where do you spend you jades. I'm so done...

[@FanBoyAiden]

Maybe im just lucky, but as an f2p player, all my favourite characters have always been "Meta units," so I've never actually had a problem clearing anything

[@KRMRGaming]

Hp inflation legit is a thing that's a pain but then that's where new characters i guess becomes the new fix for that or like new gear that greatly boost to get u thru the hp Inflation

[@muhammadkhairulhaziq2905]

I think its essentially the thing where you are forced to either play the slow game as in get the newest Supports or the fast game where you constantly have to pull the new shiny toy DPS to keep up. I guess people mainly have a problem where characters are outright have wayyyy better multipliers while requiring half if not even less of the investment. It is a growing issue when the HP is getting higher and higher and will come to a point where characters from previous versions are only usable if you pair them up with the current patch characters..... example, to make a team work you either need a 1.x DPS/2.x Support or 2.x DPS/1.x Support. If you make a team purely from 1.x then you cant even catch up even if you have eidolons cause the multipliers are wayyy too low compared to the current ongoing patch characters. Its a big issue as eventually you'll have to discard the thought of using an actual team completely from previous patches since their multipliers or kit isnt as bloated as the current one.

[@eizan9452]

even though Im okay with powercreep , the problem is they tend to shift the meta too fast, maybe they should sell more durable underwears

[@vinny_s]

the thing that absolutely irritates me is that they say "screw it" to good boss designs and just HP inflate the endgame (specifically MOC, really). why is it that we fight the same bloody boss multiple moc patches in a row (kafka and svarog specifically from what i recall). it just shows me they just put minimal effort into the entire thing and are the greedy ones. I don't necessarily pull for meta characters and pull for characters I like. then, I give them the pieces of the puzzle to make them good to play. I consistently clear MOC, PF and APOC but does it feel good to clear MOC every rotation? No, it does not. It feels horrendous when your previous cycle clear goes down by a whole two cycles with just one MOC reset.

[@archerkuro4158]

While yes hp inflation is the laziest way for them to do it if it was full based on the boss design it would be the same situation except now if you don’t pull or didn’t already pull teams that fit the current archetype no amount of gear or smart pulling will help you Let’s say the punch moc back a couple weeks and it always comes out with the new patche and we only fight the newest stuff first half would be the stone great sword enemy second half would be nikador and instead the moc buff would say if they have any war armor stacks they take reduced damage hope you have 2 well built full aoe teams or u have no chance Having the difficulty based on the boss design won’t change what they are doing and why they are doing it it just would look different which would just change who it hurts and helps

[@KahlevN]

All of your points or valid. The main problem is as I see it that they need to have more Rappa banner cycles, where they only put out a single character. Putting out 2-3 new characters every banner just accelerates powercreep so much faster because you have way more characters coming that need to outperform the old ones. Outside of that, there was a huge spike with Acheron and Firefly, who also mechanically were new because they largely ignored elements. That aspect of them was a HUGE mistake IMO, and required new DPS to have something similar to compete with them. So basically they need to simply slow down on the HP inflation, and the buffs to new characters so they don't have to be such dramatic upgrades, and just simply put out less characters and let people catch up and breathe. I think a lot of Hoyo players are also just concerned at how much they are powercreeping so fast in all 3 of their games, and seemingly getting more greedy. Mavuika is a massive powercreep, and the previous extremely popular DPS of the same element didn't even make it to her rerun before getting powercrept. In ZZZ Miyabi is like 2x stronger than any other DPS, and Astra seems similarly overpowered compared to existing supports. So there seem to be a trend and philosophy across the company atm where they are all really pushing powercreep (plus the Natlan racism and shield breaking nonsense on top of that) and it's very concerning for players that play all their games. Feels like they are headed in a greedy direction that any company that is successful enough and big enough for long enough turns towards, like EA and Ubisoft etc.

[@LetterSequence.]

As someone who has lost every single 50/50 since the start: 1.0 DPS have scaled pretty poorly in the long term as many of them have not gotten supports that enhance their playstyle, which is why almost every DPS just runs a core of Sunday/Robin/Huohuo to get their raw numbers up. 2.0 was Hoyo figuring out moreso what direction they wanted to take team building, so a lot of people may have missed out on the niche supports for their favorites trying to snag everyone cool, and like me, failed to do so, so they could maybe only get one good team (Firefly in my case). This is a bit optimistic, but once people have a fully invested 3.0 team (The Herta with a premium 5 star team, Sunday with a Remembrance DPS), and a fully invested 2.0 team, I don't think HP inflation will feel that bad.

[@MrFirecam]

I won a single 50/50 and i can't even cover every elements ^^, i started at the 1st silver wolf banner. No lightning, no quantic, no wind, boothill for physical, jingliu for ice, dhil for imaginary and firefly for fire. Most of them are outdated but i still use them. If a pull a new character i'll need 2 new support as well. Trash system.

[@Kiwipizza]

The powercreep/HP inflation situation is insane guys.

[@FaizFS3]

back in my days you can bruteforce content with trash build, but these days you actually need to build your characters, how times has changed

[@nullessent]

all of my underwear are purple

[@BlueeCatss]

"we all enjoyed 3.0" Well actually, might be the worst story in the game so far

[@NaimAK29]

I wear 7 underwear 7 days of the week, i don't want someone calling me stupid because i didn't wear the same underwear for 7 days. If the underwear i want to wear today has worn out and i have to wear an underwear, what is the smart thing to do? Wear the one you'd wear tomorrow, but then I'll be called greedy for wanting to wear an underwear. There's no way to go about it. Except that one shouldn't defend this 'having to buy a new underwear soo frequently' situation.. . Please do let me know if I'm greedy and stupid in this situation.

[@Whatzitooya226]

It’s wild how fast the power creep is in hsr considering we only get about 20 characters a years. I know it’s not super comparable but I play Dokkan battle and the power creep isn’t as big an issue because of the huge amount of characters you can use to combat new content

[@iznel9083]

I do believe that HP Inflation does exist but only for MoC12 right now. As of now MoC11 below are very easily clearable with auto play with any unit and MoC12 is really just a character check for the most part because of how the MoC Gimmick is every new MoC.

[@MrAlexjmercer]

If the end game HP Inflation is getting out of hands this badly and end up making like E2 as minimum requirements to clear in the future, I will gladly not taking it seriously and might just drop the game or find other modes to play like SU. I will not swipe just to keep up with the HP 😂

[@JoshVanAlstine]

A little over 4 minutes in and I have to disagree. Design alone *is* enough. Whales are going to whale no matter what, and for my part I don't need a new character to be more powerful than the last to find them desirable. Part of the joy of the game is collecting these new units if you like the way they look, sound or play. I'm plenty happy to be a light spender (we're talking like mmo subscription level here) for that alone. I get that gacha designers have a different mindset but it seems better to make me a regular customer at a modest ~$15 a month than to ask me to pull out a fat stack of jacksons every few months as they explain to me that the last few toys I procured have been rendered fashionably obsolete. Obviously the "every few months" is an exaggeration right now, but it's not a stretch to imagine that the rate of power creep is going to escalate. EDIT: One additional thought. I *love* synergy. That's another thing that spurs me to pull. Again, I don't need a new unit to be the biggest, baddest, meanest thing on the block. I have the premium follow-up team. Is it because I went "GASP! That's so OP!". No. I just enjoy the constant stream of attacks and the design of the characters. I just pulled The Herta despite telling myself I don't need her. Why? I adore her Aesthetic and I already had Jade. Now I'm eyeballing Lingsha like, "yeah... I dont need her... but... she *is* more synergistic for this team than what I have... or close.. and she's nice to look at...". See where I'm going with this? I just want my new toys. I dont need to be upsold, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

[@Eggkao]

I just hate the fact that I can't clear new content with my older gacha units :/

[@kuruzaru]

Like who? I cleared last MoC with Blade and Jingliu. It took 9 cycles so it's mid af, sure. But still doable.

[@Eggkao]

@kuruzaru let me rephrase. I can’t clear new content as easy, efficient, and as brain-dead as the new characters. Newer characters can be left on auto and it would probably do a better job than manually using older characters. Of course I still pull for new characters because of my gacha addiction (light spender), but it just feels like a shame that my older characters not being as relevant as they were. In other gacha games like Genshin and Arknights, a lot of older units still see a lot of uses in newer content because they remain relevant because of their design and enemies whose HPs are not as heavily inflated. You could say that there are also a lot of enemies with heavily inflated HPs in those other gacha games, but there’s most likely a mechanic to counter it that could be used by a majority of the characters in the game. Or maybe it’s just a content that can be done without a timer or cycle count.

[@Eggkao]

@@kuruzaru don’t know why my comment didn’t automatically reply to your comment xD but here’s a bump

[@kuruzaru]

@Eggkao I agree. Of course. The thing is new shiny toy is always hard carry by turbulence. You can see true value of the character when their banners are done. Also enviorment matters. Like for example now I see that Feixiao might have issues in future few patches. It looks like we are going into AoE era now. So units like Herta, Jade, Argenti (if physical content), Rappa should shine more. We can see even now the value of Serval or 4* Herta. Serval was a forgotten unit for a long time. They rotate a lot with that so some units would feel very bad but some will now skyrocket out of nowhere.

[@Eggkao]

@@kuruzaru then like what other people suggested. They could probably introduce a new mechanic that can update or upgrade older characters. I remember in one game, Dragalia Lost, the OG old characters were able to be upgraded beyond the current max level. And it unlocked a few new passives that really helped balance their damages to the meta or near it.

[@drakehound2244]

So here is my tip Pull the Herta and her lightcon if you lacking a Good Meta DPS. if you have your firefly/Acheron/Fei Xiao teams ready to go, you can skip the Herta. But those who don't have superior meta dps pull the Herta, what about powercreep, you judge powercreeps like judging Firefly .. say Firefly dps isn't the greatest anymore, can she shift to Support, YES .. by implanting fireweakness and having 6 actions a Cycle. wow will never be redundant would she, The Herta will be powercrept, then she shifts to a SUB DPS role. bringing another 80 Critical Damage while just being standing on the field. that sounds good doesn't it. Acheron powercrept. WTF do I do with her? can she SUB DPS no.. she needs specially tailored team. so worthless.

[@leonardoelias1147]

the problem is how fast powercreep happens

[@KibaAzure]

I've simply stopped caring if I don't get a star anymore. At the end of the day, its not a skill check, its a stat check. You pay in either relics or pulls. This is affecting many players in ZZZ as well with the new Deadly Assault, if you don't have a solid 3rd team, you just are not getting full credit. That's it. It is not a reflection of skill.

[@marcusbr4259]

just promote new characters better, more flashy scenes in the main story, trailers. No need for powercreep. Sales will do just fine, unless you are greedy.

[@lylusbadylus1107]

The point is that Hoto is VERY greedy. I have no hope in them doubling down on the HP inflation. It will not happen. They will just release a new broken dps each patch.

[@Gilaboyful]

The real problem with powercreep is not the bosess themselves or the characthers we pull, its the Scummy MOC/Endgame format that makes it seem that the current banner is so much better then the units we have.. the marketting gimick and banner placements dosent help too.. but the characthers we have themselves is fine... most peopel who whine about HP scalling dont even have max traces or well built relics

[@kumalanimbus6995]

The funny thing is that for the current cycle while the Boss hp is like 2 Million Something, the trotters deal a fixed amount of damage (100k ish for each trotter iirc) to the boss, so let's say in 5 cycle if you kill the trotter fast enough you can deal a guaranteed 400k on first phase and 600K on second phase. So it's pretty much just 1400K boss (still a lot, but kinda lower than people might think). Single target characters still felt so bad to play tho (unless your name is Boothill). I'm a casual player, so I only think if I can full star moc, as, and pf stages, then that's good enough. If I can't I will try some wonky strats to try to beat the level. Doing pretty good until now still able to full star all endgame up until now while being F2P.

[@CyberSR]

Oh shi- the underwear analogy is win. I cant stop laughing! Especially when the comical scene of Hoyo HQ becoming an underwear shop where the Hoyo staffs are salespeople promoting them appears in my mind...

[@didwewin90]

Every MOC my Acheron gets slower at clearing stuff. The current MOC took 6Cycles on the first node. Thank god Fugue/Rappa took 3 Cycles.

[@starpoint27]

exact same situation here

[@starpoint27]

idek if its worth getting jiaoqui anymore

[@didwewin90]

@@starpoint27 I even started questioning if me skipping him was the reason.

[@starpoint27]

@ i just saw a showcase of e0s1 acheron with jiaoqui clearing in 3 cycles so perhaps in the future we can go for jq and if you decide to bench rappa for rememberance fugue can replace pela for more stacks since i dont think theyd be releasing anything to buff break in the near future

[@quansz]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@didwewin90my acheron with jq took 3 cycles , so skipping jq costed you 3 more cycles

[@BigToyGun]

“Nah. Just dont be greedy and stupid”-- MrChokeIt prolly.

[@pandax5359]

EoD gamer: I waited so that we can have a proper discussion. Don't scold people for having certain views. Viewers: Feck that

[@unholyarthur1]

@@pandax5359 Is stating fact considered scolding?

[@pandax5359]

@@unholyarthur1 I didn't know his name was factually "MrChokeIt"

[@sct77]

And he's right lol, almost all of the players who can't clear endgame have made bad pulls.

[@BigToyGun]

@@sct77 so me pulling on S2 DHIL and Sparkle was a bad decision? Lmao!

[@sorinamarcu5357]

Personally, i do not think the issue was the powercreep in itself but rather is the fast pacing (meta change every 3 patches, forsing people to get 5 star supports to keep up, not giving any 4 star replacements) as well as the teams now feeling so rigid and people feeling more desatisfy and see how the company do not care about their time and efort at all. If we look back in 1.0-1.6, teams were more versatie, offering their players more freedom of choosing. Not to mention players had time to pick units, build them veriy optimal, use them, get bord, be exited for next favourite toy. Now we are force to build teams around our main dps, get their lightcore cuz there the difference in power between that and sig is huge, get characters you may not even like just to get the best performance out of the new and old units (all of this with no adding of building time) and until we finish our theam is half strong then the next meta define team.

[@jiaqiongzhang3151]

A little Powercreep sure is okay to keep it at a steady pace, but why would hoyo not be able to just bring real new mechanics like in Arknights ? I mean there is powercreep too, but even after 5 years, the year one operators are still solid and needed. The difficulty there comes from mechanics, different modes, pick limitations and map design. Here in HSR they focus too less on mechanics and just double the HP every cycle ? Thats the fastest way to lose paying customers. I mean in Arknights, which is also a gacha game, the money I throw in there is not devalued like with HSR. I have no incentive anymore to go beyond E2S1, because its the same as E6S5 when they raise the hp bar so fast. Characters will be powercrept out of work so fast that horziontal and vertical investment stop at E0S1 for max efficiency per cycle. It's as you say flavor of the month. At this pace they make every other playstyle lose value too fast.

[@typhwolfe4322]

I think there is some misunderstanding in the current MOC. As a e0s0 player, new units only slightly improved the cycle. Sunday/JY was only 1-2 cycle faster than BS/Kafka. Same for Therta. Hoyo is calling to vertically invest in your characters.

[@lazaruslong697]

4:05 Not exactly true, at least not for everyone... I skipped Rappa solely on the grounds her design being cringe. As well I am not skipping The Herta (or Častotice) because I like their designs. Not that I need need them, my team are so far doing fine without them, but I like them, so I am getting them and will build my new teams around them. 5:25 That is actually not true as well and you know it. You are defending scummy practice of a large company, which is employed only for them to earn MORE money (bigger profit). It's not like they would go bankrupt without it, they would just earn a bit less. It's pure greed. 8:30 Ugh... This is probably the most dishonest thing you said. If people WANT to give money to developers, that's completely ok. There will be plenty of waifu/husbands collectors throwing their money at hoyo regardless if they make interesting character designs. There really is no need to incentivize with 150% HP inflation over 6 months. If it was like 20-30%, and new character kits weren't as blatantly overpowered as well, it would still be enough for people to get them.

[@amphillips2566]

Thanks for the no drama take on this issue. Things will always change with the game or become more challenging but that keeps it fresh and keeps players engaged. And I also don’t think they will make it impossible for f2p or low spenders to clear content without having all the new units because that’s the majority of the player base. As a successful company I don’t see why they would deliberately tank their business. They have to create balance in a complex system while giving players options that keep them engaged. So, of course there are new units new mechanics, etc. I agree that players who don’t care about end game content are not affected by HP inflation. But if you are, step up to the challenge. Build your characters the best you can with what you have available, max their traces, level their weapons, etc. Be strategic about the characters you pull based on your account. And be persistent. If you don’t clear it the first time just keep trying, try different teams. Honestly, part of the fun of the game is making the most with what you have. I’m f2p and I don’t clear everything on the first try but I’m ok with that because it would be boring for me if I could clear everything without any effort. I also don’t 3 star everything but I’m working on it.

[@Gilaboyful]

What if i dont like to wear underwear? :(

[@aidil2889]

i also notice 3.0 enemies deal a massive freaking damage holy

[@Gray-y5b]

My e0 Acheron cleared the swarm in 2 cycles no problem You don't need herta nor rappa for the second half

[@quvy338]

and how does the rest of your team look like

[@Gray-y5b]

@quvy338 don't forget that acheron grains a lot of stacks from the bugs exploding

[@Daniel-ik6wi]

people mad because their old characters can't clear in 1-2 cycles like they used to

[@exodus2oo]

My mother walked in when you were talking about underwear and she gave me a strange look.

[@leandrodelmistro2238]

Tbh I’m f2p and I have hardly noticed the Hp scaling changes but I have noticed the changes in meta to force curtain teams out.

[@maxkl2]

The main informatiin I took from this video is that I should buy new underwear

[@HeavenOnHigh]

In a way, i can understand it, hoyo needa a reason why they sell you a cute/hot anime waifu/hausbendos who uses a nuke as her main weapon. (Obviously, the nuke is the chast / ass muscles on the guys) On the other hand, it shouldn't be content where the reword is ingame money you need to get sayed waifu/hausbandos. Whales dont care about the money as a reword. For them its like spending 1.000 on an accessory and getting a penny back as thanks. They should make it like genshin, put an event (in honkai its permanent), and put a world ending slug in it and next to it a leaderbord, and as a reword, some randome ass exp book and light cone food. Ps: dont just pull dps, get the suports too. i never had a problem in moc sonce 6 months thanks to robin, ruan, and sparkle, i had to let acheron, rish guy and dan hang in cool go... Sory, english is hard, and im writing that on my phone on the throne.

[@PegasoPrime]

I have FF e2 team (RM e0, MC e6 with DDD s3, Lingsha e0) and Acheron e2s1 team (JQ e0, Aventurine e0 and Bronya e3s1) and I cleared it 3* in fully auto with 23 rounds left, without feeling any pressure nor difficulties. I followed EOD’s suggestion of horizontal investment, but with vertical investment sometimes (Acheron and FF in my case). I think the key is to have good teams with some vertical investment in them.

[@sezumi8435]

EOD, could you make a video explaining the "wear and tear" tactic in ZZZ? I'm trying to plan ahead, but I'm having trouble figuring out what they're doing, and I don't want to waste anything. Like is it worth saving for mindscapes and weapons or rather save for new characters? They're starting with the reruns and skins in 1.5.

[@startron252]

What frustrates me the most is that, with Dokkan Battle, they can constantly reiterate characters, and people love the Dragon Ball franchise too much to care about their favorite character. Most of the time, they know that the old version of that unit will get an upgrade to their old kit to shine again or will have a new version of that exact form put out with different, new, or updated animations. However, with how Star Rail is right now, once your favorite character is gone powercreep-wise, they're usually gone for good, which hurts. Even if they get a Sunday-type meta character put beside them, it doesn't feel good if you are one of the people who didn't want or like your Sunday or Ruan Mei-type meta character, making the decision for them feel forced. It creates frustration and burnout, at least for me, especially in a turn-based game like this. It's easier to ignore more in Genshin because it is exploration-based. I also know since its a honkai-type beat that it is possible for them to get reiterations, but it's never going to fix the past version of them that you spent so much time and possibly money on. You also just cannot expect that old character to get the buff they're seeking through MoC Turbulence alone. We'll see if that Jingliu Blade team can clear 3.1 with the HP loss turbulence, but I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't. They just don't really go back to truly buff the characters individually. At most they'll just throw Sunday or Ruan Mei at you and if you don't want them or are saving for someone else or for the future in general then you're usually at a loss or struggle for that character onwards. It feels very discouraging to play these older characters once they've been shoved to the side. I wish these characters could get Dokkan EZA's. Updates to their old kits, y'know? That way older players wouldn't feel as frustrated when trying to play with their favorite characters. I also feel this game is shifting to have the resets on difficult content to be some of the actual content to obtain rewards (if it wasn't already...) because it feels like we're getting fewer events as time passes. I've gotten as many pulls from Star Rail from saving for six months after Firefly's release as I have with ZZZ, with only skipping 1-2 patches. Perhaps you could argue that it's new, but with the events I've seen coming in 3.1, with everything being Mydei-focused and putting a supportive character before him, it feels...bad.

[@nagasolaire8462]

Maybe your point would be valid if you talked not about multi billion dollar company. Saying that they need money for development and that's why they making predatory powercreep? Sorry I don't buy it

[@thomasmartin5563]

I love your take and especially the point that all games have “HP Inflation”. Even Guild Wars 2, a game where the total stats on armor has not changed since release, has NEEDED to do the HP inflation because the meta has pushed player power and the devs needed to respond accordingly. I do not mind the power creep nor hp inflation. This MOC I actually used Silver Wolf again to enable an Acheron team on the second side! I enjoy the challenge, I enjoy having to think about my teams, and I enjoy playing the game. I especially enjoy the new challenge Edit: also ty for posting your opinions and not bending to the community’s outrage. I had no places to post my take on power creep because I would be downvoted to hell and back. I also appreciate the intro, very amazing video my man!

[@lenasprototrap7281]

I don't see any sense in playing this game if you can't clear endgame. Story is meh(no high stakes, no divelopment, etc), storytelling is abysmal. So if game that is positioning itself as story driven is ass, what else is there left? You're building teams, grinding gear, and with powercreep, you're becoming more and more stressed whether units that you spend stamina, time, heck tickets to pull might become obsolete. Not to mention that there is less variety in teamcomp building, bc you're required meta supports otherwise, you can't manage in cycle clears. DHIL can't make it in 5 cycles with Sparkle + Sunday against MoC 12 imaginary weakness. What is this? Sparkle is obsolete already.

[@zane1242]

My solution is to use current meta chars I have to clear MoC and use old chars in SU or DU. Clearing MOC isn't everything in this game, those 0 cycle clears are glorified too much. Hell, many people don't even 36 stars MOC 12. Remember it isn't worth it to ruin your fun just for some pulls, you'll lose more from having to "take some breaks" due to burnouts or even quit. YTber Waveman's theory about hoyo's possible hidden business model and how it might affect the way they design the big 3 games, may be related to the powercreep problem, watch if you're interested.

[@senelclark101]

Sure there is HP inflation, but there are also trotters that explode for 100k+ each. Lol. My experience is that if I don’t take into account killing those trotters while damaging the elite/boss, it’s just hard to full clear, e.g. Feixiao team struggle compared to other teams. My BH team can clear because Lingsha+Fugue can do work on the trotters. I skipped Therta and Rappa, but I can still clear. Meh.

[@Neloch4]

idk, i've been long haul saving for collab and i've been feeling the pinch. the few characters i do have are very well built and cant effectively contest moc12

[@GodofGoblins]

As a f2p, I am good. I beat end game just fine with both meta and non meta teams. Here is something people dont like to admit. If someone is very casual or not very good at the game, you pretty much can only either play meta or spend cash. That is it. Otherwise, if you are patient, plan well and play well, you can beat hardest content with non meta teams without spending a dime. My DOT with Sampo does this. How? My Ruan Mei is E1 S1. Hell, someone beat this MOC with Dr Ratio. All E0, and only 1 Sig. The HP inflation/powercreep is mainly going to affect players that arent smart with there choices, people who get greedy with there pulls and dont do research, people who buy into hype and make poor decisions, and people who want comfort and not want to "try hard." You dont gotta get omega god tier relics (my Aventurine uses a purple chest) or speed tune to be as fast as the Flash or whatever. But yeah, just keeping it real.

[@ThomasAndy-qu8dp]

are we seriously going to defend a predatory game needing to make even more money now ?

[@sezumi8435]

Seven pieces of this underwear here called Seele xD

[@parkerthompson2893]

Yeah, we should expect a gacha game to incentivize pulling new characters, but pure hp inflation is the cheapest way of doing that; they need to rely more on actually shifting the meta, creating new character and team archetypes, and new enemies and environments to match, which actually they have done pretty well throughout the course of the game. Genshin 5x on the other hand was a total let down in this regard, using a very intangible mechanic to arbitrarily restrict teams without really adding anything to the gameplay.

[@ixirion]

there are quite a few wrong premises - you dont need the powercreep to sell chars. - if you have powercreep it can be much less severe. - HSR is in fact a visual novel with puzzles not a game. You are not sold characters you are sold pictures and animations and the gambling. we all auto 95% of the combat -powercreep is a short-mid term strategy.

[@drakehound2244]

None sense my firefly clears the Swarm easily just toss in a action advance character like Bronya or Sunday. and just silly Acheron is stealing Firefly Team.. cause she SUX monkey balls. And losing Aventurine didn't help me, having to use Galagher. so I know what my problem was. listening to CC and Acheron is Good BS. had I stick to my own goals and pulled Aventurine. I would have saved tripple materials and resources while wasting it on Acheron that is going to be replaced soon. Firefly other hand I E3 cause it is such a superb character. same story with Fugue E2 it cause I compared it to the cost of pulling 5 DDD. my money my fun. But I am now only aiming for F2P/New Players budget team. not those HYPE teams who needs this and that. Firefly Fugue Ruan Mei and Lingsha is the best Budget team ever.. with Fugue and Lingsha already forming a superb combo.

[@wat6440]

We need a mode where the enemies hit like a truck for a disgusting amount that could oneshot you and the objective is just, survive. Kill the enemies no matter how many cycles, AV, turns, however long it takes. If you a whale, you could just bruteforce it so enemies barely got multiple turns. And the F2Ps alike could stall and chip them away little by little while making strat as how not to get killed. Surely by seeing the powercreep, this isnt the game that doesnt want any kind of *anxiety* for their players right? It pains me that sustains are just focused about heals, shields, or be subdps even. This is a turn based game. We already got gallagher that debuffs atk but where can we use it? And where's the ally res up, specific type resistance, etc? Idk its just my 2 cents.

[@yogeshkodia347]

Only p2p hate hp inflation because as f2p player i know that i never clear 12 floor moc, 4 floor pure fiction, 4 floor apocalyptic shadow but i always happy that i clear floor 11 moc, 2 floor pure fiction( because i dont like this pure fiction) and 3 floor apocalyptic shadow, i never care about last floor, hsr give so many jade even if you stop doing last floor is still fine by me as an f2p

[@howl9959]

I dont think this moc hp gonna last. More like they do it for the trotters, to enable aoe. I believe next moc gonna have lower hp unless they keep the trotters

[@Marbeary]

I will take HP inflation than Damage inflation because I don't have ANY limited 5* preservation. Me: You buy underwear?? /s

[@liliumjade]

I always recommend picking up a 5 star sustain before anything else....it's truly a game changer. But of course they don't release a lot of sustains so I understand that's a bit hard to work around and plan for. I remember when I first got Aventurine as my first limited sustain I started clearing so many things that I couldn't manage before.

[@zerospace101]

Can’t wait for 4.x lol. Million damage characters will be the low end of damage

[@Toasty_10]

I like DoT

[@zetsubouo4985]

Crazy idea But if hoyo want people to pull more, introducing a endgame thats encourage horizontal investment might be a good option ( maybe like 3 teams or something like imaginarium theater where you can only use limited amount of char each run) Side note i think apoc shadow is a bad endgame, its basically bootleg MOC with weekly boss (sometimes) , well i still like the stellar jade it gives tho

[@Daniel-ik6wi]

genshin devs were right, gacha players have anxiety when it comes to end game, people are having a stroke over this

[@1496blake]

All i care about is getting all my rewards that's it, fuck that 0 cycle bullshit.

[@MaxXxBo]

When was the last time HoYo did something good or even great for the playerbase? 2.6 and 2.7 were filler patches with ridiculously bad main stories and boss designs, frustrating MoC experiences due to HP inflation and the goal of forcing people to vertically invest while introducing 2 new characters per patch (2.6 being the exception with only Rappa's release). Quadruple banners are not the standard, they only come back whenever it is best for HoYo to drain their players and I still do not have a freaking skip button, which forces me to click through the main stories, even though they are badly written. Too little respect and too little consideration regarding their own playerbase! In addition, I think for a new version patch 3.0 was underwhelming, and now HoYo is even laying off employees, which is unlikely to increase the quality of hsr...and yes, I am salty! =D

[@JCipher8011]

Great analogy 🤣🤣

[@zorinmuller7795]

After all, they are a for-profit company. They need to amass money to gain profit and also pay their workers. Tech companies make new products that "tech-creep" their predecessors, so it's just the way it is. What they can do is make the powercreep smoother.

[@DeadlyShock13]

If they need ideas on how to handle this matter there is a better example just near the corner and it's Fgo. Same stuff but they handled the challenge contents better while still keeping the old units relevant. And if you think hoyo can't implement sudden changes then explain how they turned around ZZZ from a failing offshoot into a relatively decent money maker. So yes , they are capable of making changes but are lazy af.😂

[@harshrao4527]

I am a returning player and I only have acheron THerta bronya gepard as my 5 stars and Gallagher as sustain Who should I pull for in upcoming patches?

[@dreamsandhopes6802]

Tribbie (and potentially anaxa) , u can also pull lingsha Jiaoqiu is a must for acheron Your priority should be this Tribbie>Jiaoqiu>Anaxa≥Lingsha

[@harshrao4527]

@dreamsandhopes6802 what about robin?

[@dreamsandhopes6802]

@@harshrao4527 tribbie looks to be bis for the herta, also works with hp/def scalers better

[@dapper-alcremie460]

Get tribbie, anaxa, lingsha, Robin is optional cause future dps don’t look to use her much, if you want a 2nd dps get castorice and that’s about all I know, also Sunday if he comes back

[@graysaulo197]

somehow my FF Team just blitzed that sting to oblivion, i kinda struggled against svarog on my feixiao team maybe cause im running the bootleg squad(hmarch and fuxuan, i dnt have topaz and aven xD)

[@haybusa4547]

Expand the party size from 4 to 5

[@midnight.blue42]

1:59 jokes on you I don't have any of these 3

[@Noxau-o6q]

5:11 explain how Genshin is still making the most out of their games if this silly idea is the case then

[@kuvjason7236]

I'm alright with the HP inflation if that's the way they want to go.. however, I am NOT a fan of the fact that characters are sold incomplete and only REALLY perform around a "Team". Like Fiexiao, she ain't it unless she's in FART. Break, FF, Rappa, Boothill, they're not it without Fugue/HMC and Ruanmei. Characters should come with a complete kit if they want to go the inflation route

[@Zenzen-senpai]

This is a team building game though? And characters are built with team synergy in mind. So you need the other puzzle pieces to make the dream work. What I don’t agree with is putting an essential talent/skill locked behind eidolons or lightcones, just to make us spend some more.

[@EraserRainYT]

It's not only about incentivising to pull for new characters. If the difficulty level never changed, it would become boring. A fresh challenge reignites interest. Like you said, if one does not mind clearing all stars, you still get far without needing to invest monetarily. The challenge is getting full points but this makes it also more satisfying when you get there after putting in some effort. I guess, a legitimate complaint is that the time it takes to clear the last stage is quite longer. Don't worry, it'll level out eventually and right when it starts becoming boring again, things will switch once more. I don't see anything wrong with that. Thanks for sharing your opinion!

[@EraserRainYT]

@@apollo___ I think it’s a POV difference (as EODGamer also opined), and it’s also connected to the goal of each player, hence the different reactions. If you are a F2P player, then being strategic about pulls, paying attention to new enemy weaknesses, and investing resources accordingly becomes even more important (as EODGamer mentioned). If your goal is to clear all stages without much fuss, then it comes down to whether you’re willing to pay for the convenience or adapt with what you have. If it were impossible to progress without pulling the latest characters, I’d agree that the company was being too greedy. However, that doesn’t seem to be the case here, as there are still options for progression-even if they require more effort or creativity. At the same time, I can understand why frequent meta shifts might feel overwhelming or frustrating, especially when it feels like your hand is being forced. It’s important to align expectations with the nature of a gacha game, where resource management and adapting to shifts are part of the challenge. However, the balance between incentivizing investment and keeping the game fun is definitely up for debate. To me it seems to come down to personal preferences and goals-whether you enjoy the challenge of adapting or find the shifting meta off-putting. I hope you can still find ways to enjoy the game on your terms.

[@Than211]

Kind of funny because I wasn't paying attention to their HP at all but I was noticing that I was taking a lot more turns during this MoC than normal, one of which I couldn't get 3 stars and I couldn't really figure out why (still got the 3 star after replaying it though). That said, it only make sense that if characters are getting stronger, they need to make harder content to keep the game challenging and/or making us want new characters - I don't really have a problem with that. However, I'm more concerned with seeing how Hoyo has a history of not tweaking/buffing older characters as the game ages making it so that using/getting older characters are discouraged. For example, what if I really like Clara and want to continue using her after this new spike in enemy HP? My Clara isn't getting any stronger but the enemies are which is inferring to me that Clara is no longer a good character to use - if they went back to buff Clara, then I would be fine, but again, Hoyo has a history of never doing stuff like that. This isn't really an issue if we're not heavily invested into a character but for some people, they just REALLY like that one character and put all their eggs in one basket and now, that character might get 'phased' out. Secondly, there was no indication that enemies are now suddenly getting a spike in difficulty which makes us, as players, very wary of pulling older characters. Let's just say, for example, if Acheron was unable to keep up with the new changes but her rerun was just the previous patch; suddenly, you got a group of people who thought Acheron had staying power when she, in fact, did not, making them feel like they got ripped off. That can lead to a lot of frustrated players. A lot of games would go back and tweak older characters to kind of keep them feeling fresh, but again, Hoyo doesn't do that kind of stuff and I kind of get it, they want players to want to get the new characters but artificially forcing that to happen can push away older players.

[@sight_nano]

Players when the game is easy: 😠 Players when the game is hard: 😠

[@chrisbryant2867]

Facts u cant make people happy.. I actually like hp inflation makes the battle goes longer ❤

[@iri0022]

because ppl loves to complain, that's all

[@nagasolaire8462]

Shower you with ice water - you don't like it, shower you with boiling water - you don't like it again? Oh you just love to complain

[@Daniel-ik6wi]

i think the biggest reason is because people feel bad about spending time/money on a character, when the character doesn't perform like it used to they feel regret. Typical gacha player behavior if you ask me, most can't think straight.

[@elia0162]

Yeah bro that's called artificially hard,in fact hsr can be only artificially hard because it has no gameplay depth

[@thesilversleep]

Just remove gacha games in the US and change it to micro transactions…..

[@feralchimaera99]

Rather than Underwear isn't more like tampons?

[@loow03]

Hsr soon will fell off💀

[@dreamsandhopes6802]

It already started to fall off☠️

[@myst7042]

I started on anniversary and already jaded. Even without PVP, this game have the worst meta shift and powercreep i've ever seen. We got meta shift/power creep every patch, it feels like a dying gacha game trying to milk every single drop of money left. Meanwhile in FGO, a game hsr took as a template. Year 1 char like Waver and Merlin is still Tier 0.5 after almost a decade. And they buff old characters too. I'm just waiting for hsr anniv, and see. If i still don't like what i see, i'm dropping this shit. Also still no way to skip the fkin yap fest, it's crazy even AK:Endfield has one in cbt.

[@malificajones7674]

I've been enjoying fighting tougher bosses, but I'm actually a paying customer. I find it bizarre that F2P expect to be able to compete with people that actually spend money in HSR. Completing endgame content for max rewards, without spending a dime on the game, should be impossible.

[@virrre]

I have 0 limited LCs. I have a handful accidental E1s. I can full auto clear everything in the game. People over exaggerate the difficulty of this game so hard. Before MoC 11-12 and Apocalyptic Shadow, the game was turning into a snoozefest. The powercreep and HP inflation is a must to keep the motivation to continue to build your account and pull for new characters.

[@sct77]

I'm glad there's hp inflation, we became way too strong. I don't like the idea of waiting an entire month for MoC to reset just to be able to 1 cycle it on auto with Feixiao.