Ep. 284 - KISS (Music From) The Elder: A Look Back

[@DamianT-ly1tf]

Great show. I love MFTE , did back in 81 and still do today, play it regularly. It often gets criticised for not being a KISS sounding album, but thats the appeal to me. It was different, fresh and showed off different side to their music...a more creative side.

[@DS-hs3qp]

I was a big Kiss fan going back to '75. As a trained musician, I will say I have always liked the music on The Elder.

[@ALF.Argentina]

I never heard bad comments about Under the rose… until now:( I like the song!!

[@HappyMachorino-bd8no]

34:30 Zero points (1, 2 or 3 points) for "Under the Rose"? Incredible. I love❤ this song. The Gregorian Monks are singing🎤amazingly. Dark and Heavy. The🎸solo is so beautiful. It might have been Paul. Or it was Bruce, copying Bob. If it was Ace: respect🌹

[@tonyeckman4822]

The Elder rules! I've loved it since i got it for christmas in 1981. My only complaint was no Kiss pictures in the album!

[@chrisrosati8264]

I got it for Christmas too! I totally accepted it, because I was young enough to! I remember I cut out an Elder era photo from 16 magazine and glued it to the back!. Then in the 90s, when they did the remasters, I inserted a cool Elder era into the cd jewel case, under the cd!

[@PowerTom_kyle]

Dark Light...10/10. Shock Me has so much fatigue factor. Plus, Dark LIght really shows Ace's chops. Paul always says Ace's playing declined. This solo is pure fire. Along with the interesting drum and guitar solo only, no other instruments, sans the bongos, it is really interesting and shows tremendous growth on Ace's part. Ace gets all the credit here.

[@chrisrosati8264]

If you notice, it was only Ace and Anton Fig on all those ACE songs from Dynasty and Unmasked, and Dark light was co written by Anton

[@01tasker01]

Idc what anyone else says i love this album, always have It's massively underated and it's about time it got better press And the drumming? Love it

[@RealitySuite]

Great episode as usual, guys! But - hating Under The Rose?! OMG! I am on board with everything you've mentioned but the hate for Under The Rose?! Yikes! That is one of my favorites on the album - up there with The Oath and I, even as as an 8 yr old kid, I liked UTR....... And I realize Boomerang is weak, but I still love that song.....even though it's a sloppy recording hahaha

[@chrisrosati8264]

I got it for Christmas! I totally accepted it, because I was young enough to! I remember I cut out an Elder era photo from 16 magazine and glued it to the back!. Then in the 90s, when they did the remasters, I inserted a cool Elder era into the cd jewel case, under the cd! Totally into it.

[@01tasker01]

Since the box sets started there are only 2 i want Alive 2 and the elder

[@SWEETFA24]

I asked Gene if there would a movie of The Elder he looked at me like I was out of my mind.

[@TwistedSMF]

Well, Unless they put into the contract that Gene and Paul have some sorta say regarding Kiss matters? Perhaps we may see it one day. Since they sold the band. (And I assume all copyrights.)

[@ALF.Argentina]

I appreciate The Elder much more than both of you!

[@HappyMachorino-bd8no]

49:29 Vincent LaRussa: "...I want to hear something that's a departure from the typical KISS"👍 That's my opinion too. And I love "Carnival of Souls". And I love to hear Paul's different voice. Mike, the album cover may be ugly. But I like Paul's hand. The hand which wrote✍️ the songs. The hand which played🎸solos. It's an ugly cover. But visually there is the beauty of 🎶music in this hand🤚 You would like to hear their talking between the songs. Ace's talking in "Dark Light" is so amazing. Paul is singing: "I'm just a boy". And Ace is talking in the song so young and charming just like a boy. Wonderful. A wonderful album. I even like "Mr. Blackwell". It's so aggressive and beasty😠 A necessary balance to the elegance of "A World Without Heroes"🌹

[@igorkozar7663]

Great discussion guys! When Unmasked came out in ‘80 I was 11. That’s when KISS lost me for two yrs as a fan. Neighbor kid had it on cassette. A bunch of us had a “listening party” on a 1 speaker cassette player. Thought it sucked (has grown on me over the yrs). Thought the cover was dumb too. ‘81 The Elder is released. ‘World w/o hero’s’ released as single. Did not like at time. No pic of band on cover art. Didn’t even resemble a KISS album. Big opportunity lost there. Really didn’t hear full album until a couple yrs later when I finally pulled it out of a bargain bin. Another one that has grown on me over the years. Was back strong in ‘82 w/Creatures. 🎸🔥🤘🏻

[@therockexperiencewithmikeb8365]

I’m sure you are far from alone with how you felt in 1981!

[@randystewart3325]

Everyone has a different take on The Elder! Been a Kiss fan since 1975 and The Elder is in my top 3 Kiss albums! Maybe it was released at the wrong time for KISS, but I still loved it and still do. Great vocals, great creativity, and love the Pink Floyd influence. A few duds on the album, but all in all it’s awesome!

[@chrisbohner1092]

I love you Mike and I love you Vincent!.....No I enjoy listening to both your opinions about music and especially Kiss....so dont you ever kick Vincent off the show!....

[@DamianT-ly1tf]

The Oath - 10 Fanfare - N/A Just A Boy - 8 Dark Light - 8 Only You - 8 Under The Rose - 6 A World Without Heroes - 10 Mr Blackwell - 5 Escape From The Island - 5 Odyssey - 9 I - 10

[@TwistedSMF]

I agree with Ace Frehley's opinion regarding this record. He said the reason why he threw his hands up with it was that Ezrin was not even around for the recording of this record. It was mostly G&P steering the sinking ship. (Probably why his solo's were cut from the record.) I also agree with Ace. If they had waited around Lick It Up time, MTV would have been really taking off then. At least maybe some videos could explain some of the lyrics/music that don't make sense to give it some more focus. I am a huge World of Warcraft fan. The concept is great, but Gene and Paul just did not have the ability to do anything with it.

[@TwistedSMF]

I imediately thought of this cover when you guys said that you just do not care for "Under The Rose" He did a quite impressive cover of playing all the instruments. (With editing obviously - lol) kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3TcZWuZbZaJgqM

[@johnpatterson4272]

Imagine Mike if 'the Elder' movie concept received a JJ Abrams treatment with tie-ins to the Cloverfield Universe. Add to that, KISS songs from side 4 of Kiss Alive Two, the Elder, COTN and the added songs on KIllers. It would take big money, yet a better investment than the AI avatar garbage Gene and Paul have invested-in. Back-in-the-day when the Elder was released, I was hoping for a KISS 'lost cities' tour in North America. Places the band never played on their '79 Dynasty tour, secondary markets as they are known now. The Elder album was never a 'wash-off' to me, it came at a confusing time in my life and I was inspired by songs like The Oath, Darklight, Mr. Blackwell, Only You and Odyssey.

[@W4rM4chine82]

Though you may be pure of heart And free of sin And though you have been chosen To begin And yet you must be worthy of The prophecy But seek and you shall find Your destiny Loneliness will haunt you Will you sacrifice? Do you take the oath? Will you live your life Under the rose? The more you hurt, the less you feel The pain And the more you change, the more you stay The same But now before you lies the quest At hand And from this boy you may become A man Do you understand Will you sacrifice? Do you take the oath? Will you live your life Under the rose? Loneliness will haunt you Will you sacrifice? Do you take the oath? Will you live your life Under the rose?

[@kieronkelly959]

It’s top 3 for me too. Gene & Paul would have loved it if it made money but unfortunately it was bad timing. Eric Carr is especially awesome here.

[@charlesbronson4282]

Add Nowhere to Run, Deadly Weapons and It's my life. Change the cover. Keep the hair long...Gene keep his bob, release the actual video for I as first single, go on a small theater tour and bump it up to arenas if the catches 🔥🔥🔥

[@ALF.Argentina]

Best songs: The oath, A World without heroes and I. Worst song: Mr. Blackwell.

[@ALF.Argentina]

I love Odyssey and I like so much Just a boy. But I always love to hear the whole album.

[@sanderberkvens6270]

It always baffled me that so many Kissfans are only about a heavy guitarriff or so it seems… just never understood because I always see Kissfans as people with big hearts and open minded. I guess luckily my first encounter with The Elder was as a young kid on vacation in Switzerland where I saw the cassette in a mall (!) Yeah sure I was surprised by the cover and the music at first, but immediately I loved it and it’s by far one of my favourite Kissalbums. You’re scared by some bongo’s?! Come on…

[@Starman2112ofKings]

For me Elder is not anywhere one my favs but definitely not their worst either. After Dynasty I left the KISS train for a few years between 80-83. So I didn’t get The Elder til late in the 80’s. It took many years of revisiting and trying to get into it. Now I like it but it’s far from great

[@jamiesvideos6154]

As a 12 year old in 1981, I did not even know the album was being released until I saw it in the record store and, of course, had to get it on the spot. Upon listening, It didn't sound like a typical Kiss record but I was excited for the movie. Independent of that, I really like all of side 1 (1981 version) INCLUDING Under the Rose but side 2 not so much. A World without Heroes is an excellent song but doesn't connect with me except for the solo, and "I" is average. Odyssey is unlistenable. Kiss should not have made this album but glad they did. It also put them at their "rock bottom" and may be why we got Creatures next.

[@tommyfromdetroitmi123]

I thought the music was very KISS! The Oath, I, Dark Light, I, Escape To The Island, Mr.Blackwell were very KISS formula. Only You, and Under The Rose were a step in a newer direction which I loved. Odyssey, was a mistake.... It fit for the ending credits of a movie that never happened. I dug it. The premise of the story was weak and cheap though.

[@tommyfromdetroitmi123]

Great Show Mike, and Vincent 😊

[@marclehmann1940]

It's not a bad album. The half of it is very good or good at least. The rest is unfortunately only average and dispensable. But a year later, the 4 new studio songs on the Killers best of were great again.

[@dakotaescher1]

Example: WASP (Early records vs The Crimson Idol). It can be done. it has been done. The Elder is great minus The Odyssey.

[@kendetulio4009]

Dawng

[@W4rM4chine82]

You Sound a little like Eric Carr

[@chrisbohner1092]

I like The Elder....it was a good album with alot of good material....good intentions but it wasn't a good "Kiss" album....especially at they did it.....ehhhh not a good idea.

[@chrisbohner1092]

Aces solo on Dark light just sounds like "let me rip everything I know...like " is this Aces audition for Kiss"...ha....as if let me throw everything at the wall and see what sticks....it doesnt flow and it mixed mashed....in my oppinion.