Ep 4: "My singing voice FEELS better but people say it SOUNDS worse!" | THE PATH TO VOCAL MASTERY

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[@ericarceneaux]

Such wonderful points made in this video!!! Listening to your body instead of the biased opinions of others is just so crucial to consistent growth and vocal health. And, having been on KZbin since 2006, I know from experience how right you are about the wildly varying opinions of listeners online. They can throw your voice way out of alignment, if you let them. lol. You've gotta follow your own instincts, cuz you're gonna get the "too belty... too heady... too many riffs... not enough this/that... etc" regardless of what you do. Thanks for the reminders, gentlemen.

[@philmoufarrege]

Hi Eric cheers for dropping by dude. I think it's a funny coincidence how we met right when this video was released, because I know you've spoken on this topic many times before on your channel (haterade ha ha love the term!) and I know this is something you're quite passionate about. I can totally relate to making the mistake of letting viewers "throw my voice out of alignment" with comments similar to what you pointed out. I think we've gotta accept that we can't please everyone and that's okay, we aren't here for EVERYONE, just the RIGHT people. From now on I plan to just sing my own songs in my style because that's what I do best. I respect how you've done that. Stick to your guns Eric cos you are doing fine!!!!!! Chat to you on Skype soon.

[@VocalLiberation]

Thanks for watching, Eric! "They can throw your voice way out of alignment, if you let them. lol." -- This is SO true. The hard part of being an artist. Maintaining your own when all the pressures around you are trying to change you into something you're not. You gave some great advice there. Singers, listen up!

[@antonioprioralou1029]

philip thanks for all ur videos, i would like to ask you something: If i cant practice in 2 or 3 weeks will my voice notice it? i mean will i have a harder time singing?

[@VocalLiberation]

Antonio, it depends on the person and how frequently you sing. If you're singing everyday for months at a time (say you're regularly gigging), a break of 2-3 weeks might be good for you. But on the other hand, if you're not singing that often and have not yet become stable in your technique, a break of 2-3 weeks can make you forget some of the things you were learning.

[@antonioprioralou1029]

ive been singing almost everyday for 8 months now and i have all my register conected at the moment, so 2 weeks might not be a big deal

[@singwisevocals]

Good discussion, guys! I definitely went through a period early on in my voice training (when I started taking lessons) in which I swear I sounded worse than I had before. What was really happening, though, was that my instrument was trying to adjust to a new (better) way of being used, and so it was unstable and inconsistent with that new coordination. But over the course of a few months, the pieces started coming together and my technique became more stable in that new coordination. Sometimes it really is a matter of just sticking with it for a while and being patient. It might be tempting to go back to old way of doing things just because it's your default setting and is easier in some ways, but you'll only be reinforcing the old habits instead of building new ones. Many students of voice go through a period in which they're a work in progress. It's an uncomfortable place to be in, but it's a necessary path to take on the road to making the kinds of sounds that they want to make.

[@VocalLiberation]

Hi Karyn, great to have your feedback on this video! Looking forward to hearing more from you. :)

[@singwisevocals]

Nice to (unofficially/informally) meet you, Marnell!

[@philmoufarrege]

singwisevocals thanks for sharing, Karyn. I can relate to everything you just said.

[@winterfoxx6363]

Thanks for making this video. I resonate with a lot of what you’re saying and it’s really encouraging. I had a similar experience recently after starting lessons again. This makes me feel like “no-they don’t get it. And I’m definitely on the right track”

[@Timliu92]

As a learning vocalist I can SO SO relate to this. Many people do not realise that those so-called 'amazing' sounds are not necessarily the healthiest ways to sing. It is not about 'the sound' only that any aspiring singer should be looking for, but also vocal longevity, especially if one wants to make a career out of it. Even some of the most amazing and most experienced singers I have heard fall for this trap although that is not how their voices are naturally built. (By the way, I have to agree with you guys that the example you all give me was far from what I would call as a 'strained sound' - she did not artificially modify her tone in any way to get that edge needed) Regarding the second thing on people's opinions, we have to understand that everyone comes from varying backgrounds (even those playing similar styles of music) and hence will have different preferences to what constitutes as good singing to them. My parents, for instance, do not like some of the most amazing R&B/soul singers I have ever heard because they sound 'nasal' to them even though they are really not (partly because they prefer deeper voices). To me, we should not get affected by people's personal biases - we will never discover our own styles of singing that way. I have a friend who told me to make all sorts of sounds that are unhealthy for me but not for him, which means that what works for him might not work for me since I am more of a conversational vocalist and a belted, edgy and highly chesty sound is not the one I am necessarily looking for. The other extreme can also be true; some people do not like belting (or wide vowels, for that matter, typically if one is classically trained) or melismatic runs that they dismiss any singer who does it altogether. At the end of the day we grow our voice in ways that WORK FOR US, because we are all unique creatures with our own distinctive gifts and styles, and we must embrace it in all its strengths and limitations. :)

[@philmoufarrege]

Thanks for sharing Tim. I definitely would say you have found your own style and I hope you embrace it!

[@essentialvibesev6293]

Marnell sample is the world's greatest singing teacher. with him I need not to worry I just listen and follow his instructions. all what you guys are saying is a hundred percent on point.

[@VocalLiberation]

Everything you've said is great and so true. Thanks for contributing to the discussion.

[@VocalLiberation]

Thanks a lot man! I really appreciate that. I'm flattered. :P

[@essentialvibesev6293]

To me you are that's why I choose you. Smile

[@Stratcatblue]

Great video! hits on a lot of really good points. I tried to encourage my students to think of it as a marathon versus a sprint. learning the correct ways to get the sounds you want, but stay relaxed and don't push it. also pay attention to your body's warning signs, your body will give you plenty of warning as to when you need to take those breaks. as for the middle part of this video, what I have noticed is that when the words "can't sing" is directed at somebody talented or even somebody who is progressing towards their goal, the insults and criticisms usually comes from someone who has never sung and has no talent at all, I believe that is usually motivated by jealousy. always consider the source. keep pressing on toward your goals no matter what, always take into account the rules for safe singing so you don't sabotage yourself before reaching your potential.

[@VocalLiberation]

Learning to get in tune with your body is a big part of it. Even if the audience can't hear it, you have to be really in touch with your body and learn to respect when it's telling you to slow down or do something different. Thanks for sharing!

[@philmoufarrege]

great points thanks for sharing

[@owenkorzec]

Marnell wanted me to add on something here that I mentioned to him: Even though I can totally relate to my voice sounding worse as it starts to feel better, I never got that many negative comments, and I think part of it is because I somehow learned how to energetically shield myself from those comments coming in. I wouldn't know how to explain how I do it but I developed this certain energy as a protective mechanism for my ego as I was learning to sing and still sucked at it Some people break through it but only if they feel a really strong need to comment, or if I open up to them such as a teacher. But a big example of this is when people are listening to something recorded of me and I'm also in the room. I feel very vulnerable in that environment so my body braces/stiffens/hardens/perks up in a subtle way as a response, like trying to emotionally protect itself, and verbally I will kind of close off a bit too, not ask for opinions but just kind of silently feel uncomfortable that i'm listening to myself. And I think that could be a case where it's bad because if people are sensing that, it will make them feel like I'm not open to feedback, cause I'm resisting that, kind of like, I don't feel ready to take a bad comment cause I'm already insecure about my recording, and feeling negativity from both inside and outside would be too overwhelming. Anybody else ever felt something similar? I'm wondering whether what I've experiencing is a natural response, or a something I should try to grow out of.

[@philmoufarrege]

This is a great point Owen. Sometimes we feel one way but it doesn't reflect in our actions at all. Getting our thoughts, emotions and actions all aligned as one is something I always strive for, I think it's an important skill for anyone who wants to be successful as well as become a better COMMUNICATOR as a singer because music is all about communication

[@owenkorzec]

+Phil Moufarrege totally man I have a long way to go! Aligning those things is a challenge I've been trying to overcome for years. And I'm starting to really understand the importance of communication too. when it got to the point where not expressing myself fully led me into some of my worst emotions, I learned enough is enough, I gotta learn to be open with articulating myself to people even when it's uncomfortable, so I can get into win win win situations instead of sacrificing so much of my own say that it emotionally hurts. I was very much inspired by a book called crucial conversations, one of the most helpful books I've ever read.

[@owenkorzec]

Excellent video! Somehow I've found the comments I get from others have most often just helped me and not led me astray but internally I've always felt insecure whenever I don't think I sound good, so it is an internal battle too, and it took time for me to learn to switch from prioritizing sound first to prioritizing feel first. And sometimes the worst is when you get NO comments from the audience. It's so easy to beat yourself up for the fact that you didnt get a few compliments to assure you you're doing well. Because then you wonder - did I do okay? did I do horrible? What happened? Or when they compliment your instrument playing but not your singing or vice versa...does that mean one of them was good, but the other bad? I think just having a great mentor and trusting them is the best way to go because you can at least go back to a complete awareness of where you're at and where to go next instead of constantly pondering vague little comments. Training also helps make sense of older comments you received but didnt know how to apply yet. I think back to things people said about my singing in the past and now understand what specific qualities of my singing they were referring to, but didnt have the vocabulary to articulate it in a way I could understand at the time.

[@VocalLiberation]

Great point about getting no comment from the audience! That can totally leave you in a doubtful state! And you're right, the average person cannot articulate what it is they're trying to convey about a singer's voice. Even some singers struggle with that! So it can be very easy to look at their words at face value and take it the wrong way. That's why it's really necessary to have people whose opinion you trust.

[@lafionte]

" And sometimes the worst is when you get NO comments from the audience." As a teacher it is exactly the same for me, especially in higher level classes, where the students are really quiet. I learnt through other teachers positive feedback, but i more and more ask my students what did they enjoy, enjoy less, and why. It also allows me to avoid taking any sign of disinterest as my own failure, but also rework on things that i was taking for granted. The "vague little comments" are still important, not as a tool for practise (your teacher is there for that) but to know how the audience is percieving us. Being a teacher has made me very laid back regarding feedback. When you don't chose your audience, you should not take anything too seriously. I actually have a class where the students come to see me on purpose, and this is where i really pay attention.

[@VocalLiberation]

quentin bouvier Man, I never expected to see such awesome feedback on a video. This has to be one of the most productive and constructive comments section I've ever seen on a video. Keep it up guys!

[@philmoufarrege]

totally

[@VIDEOHEREBOB]

Such great, real-world content and insight in this video. If I may add a comment, please understand, besides a lot of bias, there also can be envy playing a part in those comments or critisisms without a doubt. It all goes with the job.

[@philmoufarrege]

Thanks for sharing Bob, great insight brother.

[@VocalLiberation]

Very true, Bob. Good to see you still around.

[@lafionte]

This is a good video, and many things you both said could be extrapolated to the broader frame of personal developement. Surrounding oneself with insightful people is critical for whatever project you want to accomplish. It is paramount to take distance from others' judgement without being completely detached since you don't want to sing purely for yourself. I have the chance to have bandmates who understand how challenging singing can be and who don't judge my quirks and bizzare training routines. I try to act as comprehensive when it comes to their instruments. I remember when the guitar player came to audition, it was freezing cold in the room, the amp was old and with a rusty sound, he was very tensed and self conscious because he couldn't really demonstrate what he wanted to show. We were all laid back and i jockingly told him that he should wear gloves, as a singer always wear a scarf to not have their voice ruined before the show even started. A few minutes later he was jamming with us. While i pay attention to feedback on the end result, i am very detached on what people say regarding how i warm up and train. Since i need to step out of my comfort zone sometimes to make progress, it isn't going to sound good by definition :-)

[@owenkorzec]

Great points dude, I am with you on being empathetic to other bandmates. My manager is sometimes not good at this, he makes a lot of decisions that we may be personally uncomfortable with, and while it does make the band more successful, it is an awful feeling when you get personally overworked as a result. And even in a rehearsal setting it can be extremely unsuccessful for one person to decide how everyone should rehearse. The band needs to collaborate on which songs to practice when, how long to drill parts etc otherwise some people will feel they have wasted time practicing things they already know and others will feel the rehearsal process was rushed and they will have trouble remembering what they learned. Delegating certain things for musicians to practice on their own time increases rehearsal efficiency a lot, not just in the basic song learning but if someone is having trouble on a particular part, they may just need to learn it alone.

[@VocalLiberation]

Excellent insights. This is turning out to be a really great discussion. :)

[@philmoufarrege]

good on you for being sensitive enough to feel the situation and add value and bring people UP. This is what great performers and great teachers do. Good on you Quentin.

[@owenkorzec]

+Phil Moufarrege what a beautiful wording "bring people UP" that's a pretty big chunk of the meaning of life already summed up in 3 words. Reminds me of this crazy idea I had that if I just make it a life mission to meet lots of people and develop strong relationships with the right people the rest of life will pretty much take care of itself. Still just a theory but a motivating one at that!

[@lafionte]

And i am just getting started :-)

[@essentialvibesev6293]

Good video gentlemen. I have passed this stage now where I make negative people affect me. funny thing the persons who used to give me the bad comments I won them over as big fans now. lol! I get better everyday and get comments that I get better everyday.

[@VocalLiberation]

That's great! As any type of performing artist, but ESPECIALLY as a singer, you gotta learn to have tough skin. Otherwise, the critics will eat you alive. But good to hear you're converting the critics!

[@philmoufarrege]

haha that's an amazing place to be bro! Do you have any website where I can hear your music?

[@essentialvibesev6293]

Phil Moufarrege yeah it's true bro. I am a Jamaican rapper who sings and working with Marnell sample to make the singing as great as the rap. I shared a rap song with Marnell I'll let no him share it with you. it my debut single.

[@Timliu92]

Hey bro, converting your critics to fans and supporters feels amazing indeed. If you just keep doing what you are doing and not caring about their negative opinions, people will see that change in you and ultimate you win them over in the long run. :) Do share your music with me too!

[@essentialvibesev6293]

Timliu92 Smiling, the last person who criticise a song I did was so off because he said the song had no dynamics. funny thing the strength of the song is dynamic. came the next day wanting to hear me live and wanted the song for ringtone. I learnt that people just want to discredit you at times so I just listen and reply with a 'OK'

[@tiansmusic]

Omg, this video description is exactly what is happening to me and it's been discouraging me so much!

[@peterdacius]

This me right now

[@CarlosQ24]

Christina Aguilera and Jessica Simpson come to my mind, I heard they damaged their voices from the things they were known for, like Christina with her screaming, or Jessica with her strained sound, etc. Especially with Jessica when she did Broadway before she became a pop singer.

[@VocalLiberation]

Yes, they are good example of people whose technique was off, but the audience loved the sound. That sound came with a price. (Consistency, difficulty hitting high notes, straining, etc.) So at the end of the day, you as a singer have to make that choice. Do you want to thrill your audience today by whatever means necessary and burn out in a year, or do you still want to keep singing decades down the road?

[@rnbsteenstar]

@@VocalLiberation Sing for decades and create similar sounds.

[@asdfasdf-tm7cq]

I always see my larynx move when I sing no matter what note, low or high, especially during high notes, my larynx goes straight up, I can feel my neck and throat muscles slightly tensing up, and my swallowing muscles are engaged. Is it because I haven't developed a relationship between my voice and support? And if I build this relationship properly, will it stabilize my larynx? Even when I use support when I sing higher on the scale, or I think I'm using support properly, I can feel my swallow muscles and larynx constricting my airflow. I can't even sing songs without feeling a bit tired or a feeling of mucus in my throat. By the way I'm using your Pro Singer's Vault that I bought around last year, and haven't had the time to use it yet, but only recently I started using the course. Thank you.

[@JulienKozak]

love this video man, so many resonating points!

[@VocalLiberation]

Awesome! Which point was the biggest that you got from the video?

[@philmoufarrege]

great to see you around Julien, loving the new tracks man

[@JulienKozak]

Marnell Sample really mostly just the fact that I'm not alone in having issues that are taking waaay to long to solve and that we need to stay patient. outsiders don't see the struggle.

[@JulienKozak]

Phil Moufarrege you too sir! more soon

[@VocalLiberation]

Ahhh, I see. I'm totally with you there. Sometimes when you're learning to sing, it's SOOOO easy to feel like you are the only one struggling with a particular problem. It's such a relief to find out others have the same worries and frustrations. Keep hanging in there!!!

[@nun2138]

how can i get a clearer 'ng' vowel? i find when im working my f4-g#4, particularly when adding more chest, i can do all vowels except for the ng, so when i try to blend those resonances my tone gets croaked up and garbled af for those notes. ive been doing staccato scales on the ng, also adding a consonant like 'gng' or 'tng', but any other ideas?

[@philmoufarrege]

I'd need to hear you to be sure what's happening.

[@nc3189]

Amazing video guys! So great that so many people find themselves in what you are saying ( including me) , its a sort of support we all need.

[@philmoufarrege]

thank you!