Ep. 7 Trumpet Embouchure (Part 2): Pressure and Lips

[@jimbob5848]

Outstanding pedagogy. Outstanding personality.

[@gregcampbell8888]

Totally agree with your point that moderate pressure and a mouthpiece connection are required! I was told years ago when starting out to use less pressure and it messed me up for decades - poor range, endurance, power etc. When I finally learned that pressure is required my playing improved significantly!

[@general5104]

E X C E L L E N T ADVICE !!! Thank you for explaining the "nuts & bolts" end of it! You make it all MAKE SINCE ! Now...if I can just make these old lips do, what you were saying, I MAY be able to play the HAPPY Birthday song to myself in about another week. I'll be 70 ! (I feel 90)

[@jamesfalcon7655]

Thanks for the great video

[@ellman10]

Amazing material. Thank you so much!

[@aryanpatel5980]

These vidoes are amazing. Could you make a video on how to build the muscles of your embouchure?

[@ryanstrumpet]

Next on the list! Exercises that help us experience and develop the Strength vs. Freedom dichotomy. (Or, how to develop the muscles of the embouchure . . ..)

[@jasonrivard8552]

Incredible presentation and material! I am wondering what size mouthpiece you use (Bach equivalent). Do you find that getting the correct size mouthpiece essential for freedom of the embouchure or should it matter at all? Thanks!

[@ryanstrumpet]

Thanks, @Jason. Yes, I have found mouthpiece size (particularly rim diameter) to be absolutely crucial for success on the horn. For me, I have a pretty unusual dental bit; with teeth that are kind of askew. If I go any smaller than a Bach 1 rim, I find myself getting into trouble over time. For others, a smaller diameter is most helpful. I suspect it has more to do with teeth than lips. A friend of mine explains it like shoes. It really does help to find a pair of shoes that fit, if your goal is to run. Same with the mouthpiece. Best of luck!

[@pedrobahia6367]

Hey, Ryan! Great video! I love your videos. You talked about a research back in the 90s about pressure and no-pressure players, I really want to read this, where can I find it? I'm writing a monograph on embouchure and orofacial muscles and It would be very important to me! Thanks for your videos

[@ryanstrumpet]

Thanks Pedro. I haven't been able to find it . . . my teacher, David Hickman, showed it to me back in 2005 . . . I will need to see if he can find it. E brasileiro?

[@woodyhewitson]

Hi Ryan great video, I very much appreciate the time and quality you put into your videos, quick question.. the point you said about we are not buzzing when we play, what is your stand on lip buzzing, is it beneficial to practice or not? Cheers

[@ryanstrumpet]

I know players who buzzing has really benefitted, and those who it doesn't help as much. For me personally, I find benefits from both free buzzing, visualizer buzzing, and mouthpiece buzzing, but in *very* small doses; keeping in mind, always, that playing the horn simply is different than buzzing. Buzzing became effective for me when I realized that a core part of the practice is to produce a vibration *without* changing the nature of my exhale. So, for free buzzing, I start with my basic setup, lips together and supple (not super relaxed, and not firm) and part the lips with the airstream. I then *slowly* bring my lower lip up . . . really slowly . . . until a vibration begins without me changing the nature of my exhale at all. In general, I have found that, for myself and the vast majority of my students, thinking of the setup to free-buzz a low G (concert F) or a touch lower (assuming that vibration is occurring on the outer tissue of the lip, not the inner wet tissue) is a helpful ball-park for a home-base for our setup. All that said, Dave Hickman told me he never could free buzz, and I've yet to cultivate a sound with as much color and liveliness as Dave's!!! By contrast, Ingrid Jensen has found great benefit in working on lip buzzing at the actual pitch she is playing; and, of course, Arturo is famous for the sheer volume of his semi-free buzz (he uses his fingers as a substitute mouthpiece rim and buzzes a *very* present altissimo). Bottom line, "if the method exists, it helped someone." So, I invite my students to experiment with approaches as they learn what helps them. How do you know if the buzzing doesn't help, or if you're overdoing it? You will find yourself getting more stiff, tire quickly, and even range starting to reduce a touch. For me, 30-60 seconds of free buzz; 30-60 seconds of visualizer; and a max of 3-5 minutes on mouthpiece tends to be helpful when I can sense that I need it. Some of my cues for knowing I need some buzzing are: A) slightly swollen chops (in which case I use the buzzing to get blood/oxygen to the chops and simply loosen the tissue at the aperture). B) a too-open aperture and/or an awareness that my setup *outside* the mouthpiece is too relaxed in the lower register. Hope that helps! Maybe this would be a useful episode topic!

[@woodyhewitson]

@@ryanstrumpet Perfect thank you very much Ryan, that helps a lot!!

[@australiancomposer]

Really interesting videos! Bit of a tangent, but the part about playing on the out lip tissue reminds me... There's a line in Vizzutti's book "High Notes" where he says something in the text part like "Don't roll the lips in - you have been warned!" But doesn't explain any further. I don't know if you have any insight about that but I've always been unsure what to make of it.

[@ryanstrumpet]

Thanks, Christopher -- I really can't speak to Allen's intent or experience in that regard. I was trained to understand two basic types of embouchures: 1) Fixed jaw 2) Floating jaw Fixed jaw players -- like Allen -- make up maybe 5% of us. For them, concepts like, "Firm your corners," "Corners forward," "More air," tend to work well. A great example of this is James Morrison, and watching his tutorials on KZbin will give you a solid sense of what works for fixed jaw players. I know a few players who consciously keep their lips in an "oooo" position (kind of like the Maggio system) while they play, and it works well for them. I'd imagine this is true of Allen. My videos really are for the majority of us, who Dave Hickman categorizes as "Floating jaw" players. These players -- like me -- need to move the lower jaw forward, slightly, to have the teeth support the vibration of the lips. That's like 95% of us. "Rolling in the lips" can be a dangerous concept for students, who tend to roll them IN BETWEEN their teeth in a way that gives them artificial access to higher notes (without a more resonant sound, of course). So I wonder if Allen may have been coming at it from that place too . . .. Those are my best guesses! Best wishes to you in your playing! 🙂

[@australiancomposer]

@@ryanstrumpet thanks for your thoughts! I'm definitely the 'floating jaw' type and do roll in a bit by default like a lot of players seem to! What you've said does make sense to me as when the lower jaw comes forward, when the corners turn on, some amount of roll happens automatically. But when the jaw is receded and the corners engage, the lips seem to automatically roll out some. Thanks for your thoughts!

[@CanadianDivergent]

This clarified a lot of things. awesome. seems im doing things correctly. Subbed! Wet or dry lips???

[@ryanstrumpet]

I know great players who wet their lips, and great players who prefer dry. Personal preference! :-)

[@Trollet532]

I would love some help with tounging! Range, sound and pretty mutch anything has come natural to me, but tounging is very hard, to develop speed and clarity

[@ryanstrumpet]

Thank you for this recommendation! I will definitely put it on the list!

[@mauromateosax]

Hello Ryan. Thanks for the valuable information. I've been concerned about mouthpiece pressure since i started (3 years ago) because i was annoyed for not being able to play for several hours along the day. I've just given me the chance to press a bit feel the vibration isolated. It has worked wonderful, i feel the whole register closer and more resonant. The only problem is endurance has gone back to being little, being able to play for about 45 minutes. What are your thoughts on this? Thank you

[@ryanstrumpet]

Thanks, Mauro. (E brasileiro?) A few thoughts that I have found to be helpful: 1) Endurance doesn't come by playing to the point of total fatigue or exhaustion. Endurance is the result of efficient playing (i.e. resonant playing). For me, that means resting OFTEN during my practice; and playing in ways that feel great. As Bud Herseth said: How do you know when to end a practice session? When things are feeling great. 2) Move towards several practice sessions a day. Very few trumpeters find value in a single, long practice session. For most of us, long practice sessions break down our embouchure muscles. 3) Be VERY thoughtful about removing the mouthpiece from the face, every chance you get. Muscles feel fresh when they have energy. Energy comes from oxygen. Blood delivers oxygen to the tissue. So, every chance you get, relieve the pressure on the face; even if you only have a few beats rest. Hope that helps! All my best to you! Ryan

[@mauromateosax]

@@ryanstrumpet Thanks for your reply. I'm actually from Spain, but we're quite close to Portugal so you didn't miss too much in terms of language :) The truth is, thanks to the info you cover in your videos, i've been letting myself experiment with a lot of stuff, and i've been capable of making work things that days before seemed unnatural to me. I'm starting to think that playing the trumpet is just the process of making things that feel unnatural, feel natural. I have never heard about the idea of removing the mouthpiece. Quite the opposite, i have always been surprised that trumpeters i like spend a lot of time with the trumpet in their mouths, and i have tried to get stamina in that aspect too. I will put into practice everything you've told, thanks a lot.

[@polanve]

Hi Ryan, I really love your videos! I have a question, you say we play with the outer lip tissue, but when you demonstrate with the embouchure visualizer, what I see is that it is the pink part of the lips which are forming the aperture. Can you elaborate on this? I am especially curious because it's the place where my lips meet that I experience some discomfort, and even a kind of sagginess that tends to close the aperture, even as I try to roll it in and out of the way.

[@ryanstrumpet]

Thanks, polanve -- In my experience, what matters is that the lips are not "rolled out;" not effaced. In other words, the inner membrane (the "wet" portion of the lip) does is not creating the aperture. It sounds like you may have seen Charlie Porter's excellent video on embouchure setup (in the way you talk about "rolling in and out of the way."). Personally, I have had more students benefit from thinking of starting with the aperture closed . . . ready to speak "p" or "b." Keep in mind . . . we don't want to bring the upper lip down (anatomically, we can't really do that anyways). Rather, we bring the tip of the lower lip UP to the top lip. I'd invite you to experiment with intentionally starting with the aperture all the way closed (very together, very relaxed), and allow the singing airstream to create the aperture. For myself, and most of my students, if they think about opening the aperture themselves, they get into a bit of trouble. Hope that helps! Best of luck to you!

[@stevenwhite4809]

@@ryanstrumpet Thanks so much for the clarification! I wasn't sure what "outer lip" and "inner lip" were. Yes, it is the wet part that seems to be a problem sometimes, and I will try to be mindful of not letting the aperture form there. On another note, I saw a video where Prof Fielding talked about visualizing the Trumpet as a Violin, is that where you get this metaphor?

[@bradfowler6464]

Tracking - The meat has to move, not the mouthpiece.

[@DonovanBankhead]

Well, the mouthpiece may move, too, but it moves WITH the meat.