Ep111: Secret Drugs of Buddhism - Mike Crowley

In this interview I am joined by Mike Crowley, Buddhist Lama, musician/composer, and author of ’Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana’.
We learn about Mike’s childhood as the son of a psychopath, and his extensive experimentation with all manner of drugs and psychoactive substances.
Mike recalls his encounters with Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, and his 7 year apprenticeship with Lama Yungdrung which eventually resulted in Mike becoming a lama himself. Mike reveals details of his training and experiences practicing the yogas of Naropa including dream yoga, tummo, and more.
Mike lays out his argument that psychedelic sacrament was an essential part of Buddhist Vajrayana, discussing symbolism in sacred art, references in hagiographical accounts, and artefacts of psychedelic use in modern practice forms.
Mike also discusses how to transform negative emotion into wisdom, and compares Taoist inner alchemy to the inner yogas of Tibet.
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www.guruviking.com/ep111-mike...
Also available on KZbin, iTunes, & Spotify - search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
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Topics Include:
00:00 - Intro
01:05 - Upcoming books and memoirs
05:17 - Growing up with a psychopathic father
07:45 - Extensive drug and psychedelic experimentation
09:52 - A life-changing vision of Indra’s net
14:53 - Mike’s understanding of the fifth precept
18:41 - Meeting Chogyam Trungpa and studying with Lama Yungdrung
21:37 - Hippy vs vajrayana psychedelic use
25:12 - Drug use in Buddhism
34:34 - 7 year training apprenticeship with Lama Yungdrung and becoming a lama
45:22 - Tummo, dream yoga, and the 6 Yogas of Naropa
56:16 - Learning Sanskrit, Tibetan, and Chinese
01:01:47 - Tummo and pranayama as psychedelic substitutes?
01:07:18 - Longchenpa’s psychedelic ganacharka
01:10:13 - Tantric deities emerging from psychedelic experience
01:27:45 - To those who doubt the use of psychedelics in Buddhism
01:32:37 - Implications for vajrayana practitioners who have been practicing without psychedelics
01:35:39 - Transforming negative emotions into wisdom energy
01:42:07 - Taoist drugs, and comparing Taoist alchemy with Tibetan inner yogas
01:53:24 - Mike demonstrates some of his musical instruments
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Buy ‘Secret Drugs of Buddhism’:
- synergeticpress.com/catalog/s...
To find our more about Mike, visit:
- amritadzong.com/AD_LamaMike.html
- / secretdrugs
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For more interviews, videos, and more visit:
- www.guruviking.com
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James

[@viaesta]

Psychedelics showed me the bottom layers of the Purelands which inspired me to become a Vajrayana practitioner. The Amrita of psychedelics was just a travel brochure for the real destination of Amrita as nondual mind that you will realize as an advanced practitioner who has received nature of mind pointing out instructions.

[@shemusmcquillaide]

Oh yeah, mushrooms are a thing with my vajrayana lineage, and it is a fairly major and very traditional one. I'll leave it at that. So, To me it is fully conceiveable they are talking about psychedelic mushrooms with the blue red amrit. The ubiquity of psychedelic mushrooms over here in Asia leaves me scratching my head, why do so few traditional cultures admit any knowledge of or use of them? I had a friend who grew up in Washington state and said the as kids, before there was any popular knowledge of psychedelic mushrooms that they used to gobble a few before going to school in season. He said that at the time it was just another one of those cool tricks that kids knew about that adults didn't like turning your eyelids inside out or levitating by chanting while standing in a circle "Light as a feather, stiff as a board." When the mushrooms popped up in season he said we just naturally ate them because you could go to school and laugh all day and have fun instead of being bored. I t was a no-brainer to eat them if you saw them. That said my wife is from a farming community in southeast asia and she says no one seemed to have cottoned to the psychedelic effects of those cool mushrooms you could kick and watch them turn blue. They grew in cow poo so end of the story, no one would consider eating them. Still it seems strange that traditionally in Java they are used and in Samoa and if there why not in India, and everywhere in tropical Asia or in Japan where other colder weather species grow like the laughing gymnopilus which is in Japanese folklore about how a family who ate mushrooms in the forest end ed up laughing their heads off or something . That was just a story about accidental ingestion which of course would suggest to many to look into these laughing mushrooms and of course you don't have an ancient psychedelic mushroom eating tradition in Japan unless it is quite secret. It really just seems their use was kept hush hush as it was in Europe in the mystery schools. Psychedelics were and are still kept very hush hush in Mexico among the peoples that use them, so it seems its needed. I would guess it is because Most people cannot deal with what psychedelics have to offer, they won't benefit it might even harm them and when they find out what they are tend to be negative and over emphasize the neagtive aspects because when it gets down to it, they are probably afraid of mushrooms. Same reason the Vajrayana is secret I think too.

[@alyjiyu]

What a wonderful & fascinating memory... thank you for sharing it🙏

[@user-ki1vb2rt1e]

They deny it because: 1. Its still illegal in most parts of the world 2. They want to pretend that no assistance is required in meditative states.

[@shemusmcquillaide]

I didn't know the FBI was involved in Tibet. Seems odd, since they are a domestic organization, CIA for sure, but FBI? Any details about that? @sadmonk6694

[@DavidAdriance]

GV, I really admire the space you give your interviewees to express themselves fully without interjecting or cutting them off. Your self constraint makes you a positive deviant in this regards.

[@GuruViking]

Thank you, David 🙏🏻

[@wiwidity]

Amrita in Vajrayana comes in the context of chandali or the tummo practice of melting the white bodhicitta as a central point of practice. Not a drug/external substance that you would consume externally. I am not saying that using external substance is forbidden in Vajrayana, only that in tantra Amrita refers to that part of when fire is induced. It could be a huge discussion etc. To say that Amrita in the Vajrayana context is external drug is a mistake and misleading. Could it be also a soma like external substance? it could be but its not at all central in Varjrayana, painted Vajrayogini does not drink psychedelic drug, to put it simply

[@matthewhu3514]

I'm sure many plant have been employed for spiritual insights however the real 'Amrita' which means 'no death' , is not a plant compound but a nectar like substance that is released in deep samadhi meditation that confers a state of divine intoxication . It also refers to the state of deep bliss that comes from uniting soul and Sprit beyond the physical cosmos . This can be achieved by the practice known as 'Surat Shabd yoga 'and is also called the 'Quan Yin method' and involves contemplating the primordial sound current which leads to full enlightenment and liberation from the cycle of transmigration. Look into the teachings known as Sant mat , Radhasoami, and also the Quan Yin method as imparted by the Supreme Master Ching Hai for more details

[@alankuntz6494]

Guru Viking is the king of interviewers 👍👌✌️

[@PerennialThought]

I have found some interesting connections between Taoist internal alchemy and the six yogas. - "The jade pond or lower cinnibar field contains the jade furnace "It is said that at three inches or thereabouts below the sea of breath is the Jade Pond or the lower cinnabar field, which shelters the vital essence and is the place where the medicine is gathered. It is flanked on the left and right by the Hall of Light (Mingtang) and the Cavern Chamber.." Notice 4 fingers width below the navel is about 3 inches. Also they speak of the Obscure Lady which maybe be related to the tummo as the Fierce Lady “The Obscure Female is the Ancestral [Original] Breath, the root of Heaven and earth, the foundation of the vital force and of the innate nature. "The yang is called obscure, the yin, the female, it is generally the obscure orifice. It is not in the body, or if it is considered to be in the body, it can be said that it is the root of what is and what is not, the ancestor of emptiness and fullness, the peduncle of yin and yang. Confucians call it the Great Ultimate, Taoists, the golden elixir, and Buddhists, the perfect enlightenment. It appears only in the Great Voidness, and opens only when the calm is at its apogee" - This last quote as well this really kind of points to there being shared ideas. - "Enter in the chamber and sit-up straight. Purify the heart, calm the mind, regulate the breath, and after a while, concentrate on the true breath of the lower cinnabar field which becomes a fire like a red jade pearl. Afterwards, turn nine times to the left and right. Practice until it becomes very clear. After a while, you feel that the Jade Pond is filled with secretions; it is the moment that the water will rise from the kidneys. This true fire pill starts to rise into the heart palace or the Scarlet Palace called The Upper Palace of South Brightness or the Fire Palace of the Vermilion Mound. From the court where the fire burns, ascend the fumes that melt the metal. Imagine that this fire consumes completely your own body. After a while the body will be transformed into an infant that is sitting upright in the Scarlet Palace. Gradually, the infant goes up the twelve story pagoda, passes the Jade Chamber, the Bronze Tower, and attains the Muddy Pellet Palace at the top of the head. He will transform into the body of a celestial worthy, and sit at the center of the palace.- A in many ways very similar visualization to certain aspects of the tummo visualizations and the blazing and melting. Two systems of using the imagination in practice in fairly similar ways it seems. Also ending up imagining yourself as a deity in the center of a mandala.

[@ellenbranquinho]

That is beautiful ❤

[@deepblack67]

Drugs, breathing, and mind go hand in hand I would say - Vajrayana psychonaut.

[@synapsiddigital6251]

I think I've watched this video more than anything else on KZbin. Waiting patiently for Lama Mike's book 'Psychedelic Buddhism' which it seems will be available early next year. Hope you'll have him again.

[@jonathannadeau6218]

Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche, during a teaching, told us that psychedelics were consumed in certain rites of Tibetan Buddhism. Especially in the Sakya he told us. He didn’t say more because it would be revealing secrets.

[@loveudon6972]

Ohhhh secrets

[@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858]

Tibetan Buddhists on ketamine, I knew it

[@loveudon6972]

😂😂😂@ secrets

[@millennialbuddhism2619]

i love that this is episode 111 and its the first time im hearing of either of you. Divine timing.

[@AgeofColossus]

You know Steve, one of the funniest(and fun-est) things about this channel is that it’s constantly making me seek and books from your interview guests. Amazingly great sales strategy and I’m not complaining 😂

[@brianl9419]

Great interview once again. Love the way you leave space for the story to unfold. This reminds me of Terence McKenna’s book, Food of the Gods: A radical history of plants, drugs and human evolution. Well worth a read imo. Looking forward to the follow up already!

[@siddharthshah8228]

Brilliant u give so much time guest to talk not interfere ing inbetween pleasure to listen ur Interviews

[@davidsaintjohn4248]

What a treat, thank you for this

[@thehiddenyogi8557]

Can't wait. I read his book.

[@GuruViking]

I hope you enjoyed the interview.

[@jonp3674]

Amazing interview, super fascinating, thanks for doing it.

[@GuruViking]

Thank you Jon :-)

[@jonathannadeau6218]

Yes Dzongsar Rinpoche took ayahuasca in Brazil. I heard him book his appointment with a shaman during a live teaching ! During the same teaching he also confessed to sometimes teach while being high.

[@petrairene]

Dzongsar Khyentse also mentioned that he tried LSD. I think he was just curious what westerners find about these substances.

[@matthewpaluszak9937]

Does he give any reason for why he uses cannabis?

[@jonathannadeau6218]

@@matthewpaluszak9937 No but in the context it sounded that it was just recreational.

[@LuisGonzalez-pj2xz]

Wow. Groundbreaking!!!

[@journeyingdeeperinward]

Thank you!

[@GuruViking]

Thanks for watching! :-)

[@rebeccaaldrich3396]

Excellent interview!

[@VladimirMilinovic]

Great talk.

[@user-oz8xq3sv1s]

Thank you, Great interview')/...look into Ma-Huang/Ephedra and Huang-Ma Cannabis '), first covered in the oldest medical text/Huangdi Neijing etc....correlations with the Steppe Homa (HUM) of the Arya/Shaka/Scythian Iranian Avesta's, etc...San Jao of Chinese Medicine, three tantiens/three fires... the certain grouping of points in Japanese and Chinese acupuncture/hari....Poetry of some Zen masters and their love/use of Tayma,...etc...

[@doncourtney6987]

I didn't see any mention of cannabis - even micro dosing of it. There was a recent statement by a Lama from Tibet that the herbal tradition included cannabis.

[@carmenarellano9]

Thanks

[@GuruViking]

You're welcome 🙏🏻

[@enterzenhere9254]

Curious if you ever got the deferred answer on your question about deliver intoxication and lucidity through that intoxication??? Or, if you have discussed back you could ask that question again?

[@shaunlindsey5132]

Great interview at almost two hours yet only scratched the surface of his encyclopedic knowledge. Even if some of his conclusions are just speculation. Looking at things from his perspective, there is a strong possibility he is on to something.

[@GuruViking]

Thanks Shaun!

[@zaneivy]

...I was interested in the various origins of things mentioned...I have a suspicion that if we keep pushing back, we're going to end up in Solon's Atlantis. ;)

[@GuruViking]

😂

[@bishalgurung3644]

🙏

[@alankuntz6494]

Rig veda 9 the mandala talks about the Soma. It's not a mushroom it's not anything outside of your skull and it's produced by the pituitary gland. This ambrosia amirita soma is not LSD iowaska, DMT or mushrooms.

[@larsjorgan7964]

Then, like , Buddha comes in and I`m like....wow! this is amazing, and I just get it, you know, It`s incredible, Buddha is ,like, tripping balls under the bodhi tree and I just get it, uh... yeah, uh....it`s like, I`m off my original face and right there in the Bardo and all the deities are in a stupa,man, looking awesome and saying, like, man, this is it! you know what I mean?

[@kevinshari8262]

Where does,one get amedria? I may not have the spelling right

[@wiwidity]

this is exactly what I was referring up in my commentary, his statements are misleading

[@Phosphene_Dream]

🙏🏼🙏🏼Great interview, thank you. I too discovered indra’s net first through the use of DMT (and now I’ve had many several/ at least a dozen or more at this point of these experiences where the net became visible to me) then I found that after this first time seeing the net on the DMT- nearly every time thereafter when I’ve taken psilocybin mushrooms (about 8x) now I can see the net rather clearly, the only difference I find with the mushrooms is that there doesn’t seem to be quite as many jewels 💎 to be seen all strewn about the environment like I typically see when the net can be seen with the use of DMT. I’m so glad to have seen/ found this and I’m very excited to read his books!😊🫶🏼🙏🏼

[@anandaji4075]

The Mushroom in Christian Art THE IDENTITY OF JESUS IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF CHRISTIANITY By JOHN A. RUSH Foreword by Martin W. Ball, Ph.D.

[@user-xw1ts3rr8z]

These are things reaely taunting about?😊

[@MilliePlateau]

Such practices are there, but they are supplemental to higher yogas. They are not the stand-alone essence of the practice.

[@chrisl3330]

Drug-induced Buddhism always seems a little off to me.

[@michaelthorsen6208]

Psychedelics are the number one door opening people to Buddhism, other than suffering itself which has always been the prerequisite if you will to the Path and Practice

[@charlesmark6754]

What a thoroughly depressing experience.

[@charlesmark6754]

@@wes555 no