ep125 - modelmaking fundamentals: what thinner should i use?

in which we talk butanols, toluenes, and stuff that starts out as bubbling crude, and how it all ends up in your paint.

[@captaincruise8796]

This is one of the most useful and relevant videos I have ever seen related to model making. Every hobby shop should be broadcasting this.

[@45cmurphy]

I'm in the learning curve and your videos have become essential to my new hobby. Thank you for your expertise and for taking the time to educate the rest of us.

[@delasias9153]

your clarity is refreshing & makes all the information i've learnt click together & mean something useful. thankyou!

[@rpj123]

Thanks Will. Excellent video which helps a newbie like me understand the various types of thinners and whatto use them with

[@markpearce9619]

As ever, Will.… extremely useful, highly informative, and presented in your inimitable, easy to follow, humourous, and always entertaining style. And now a published written media author, too. Is there no end to this guy's talents!! lol Don't ever change what you do, Will. Cheers, Mark.😜👍👍

[@CompetitionChris]

Great videos man, keep it up. I'm getting in to airbrush and my brain is fried from trying to figure all this out. You make it so much easier to comprehend. And I thank you

[@northsongs]

"Water is a solvent, if you're a sugar cube." Gotta love Will's videos!

[@JeanGregoryV]

This video is so awesome. When you start using different kind of paints (in my case, I use vallejo colors but I started to use mr finishing surfacer as primer) a good understanding of the thinners (and the paints) is required. So your three videos (this one, the one about the paints and the cleaning of the airbrush) are my references. I can't thank you enough 😊

[@darrelladams1055]

My name is Darrell, and I just wanted to say that I really enjoy your videos. I like the fact that you explain things in detail, rather than just one or two highlights, on a subject. They are generally very informative, and a person can learn a lot from them, which means he or she can build better models, which is the whole point of making these videos, at least in my opinion. I know some people don't like longer videos, but you simply can't learn much from a short four or five minute video! So, thank you for taking the time to actually educate people on this great hobby, and keep on cranking out these great videos!

[@curtcayemberg5101]

Superb information as usual Will!

[@dalesmith182]

Holy Smokes.LOL. I am picking up fine scale aircraft modeling after a thirty year hiatus and I have spent literally hours the past several weeks Googling for answers regarding paints and thinners as the world of modeling paint has changed significantly in thirty years.Virtually NONE of my questions have been answered until now. Will, you addressed and answered every single question I had. Wow. Thank you so very much. Dale Smith, Fort Worth, TX

[@lweewillie]

Many thanks Will. I am a seventy year old aviation artist and up until about eight years ago a scale model builder as well. I liked building the old 1/48 scale Monogram planes that so many modelers have less than friendly comments about. Without the aid of computer design systems they managed to capture the soul of these magnificent machines as well as many of the more modern companies are doing today despite the raised Panel lines and thick clear parts. I didn’t use KZbin as an information source when I was building before but as I return to the hobby I am amazed at the wealth of information that is available and I have to tell you Will, I think that you are the very best this format has to offer modelers like myself who are looking to catch up with what’s happening in this craft. Thank you for what you do for us and thank you very much for helping me find the random pattern stencils that will no doubt help me in my weathering of these great old workhorses. I think I like the dirty filthy crap as much as you do. Your cat is also as cool as they come.

[@Snoozie09]

Did you ever get ahold of the PBY Catalina, 1/48 by Monogram produces in the early 90s? I'm 30 years ahold, but got ahold of it when I was 8 or so. Had it in the box all along. Been building up my skills lately... can't wait wait to finally crack into the PBY, in due time

[@outfield1988]

mike boren loved those as a teen in the 70s

[@davidbalducci4312]

I still love those old kits by monogram/revell

[@scaleautoworkshop4426]

Yes, another excellent video Will. Thanks so much for sharing. Vaughn

[@HalidonDioramas]

Another excellent video Will, thanks very much for sharing, all done with a great style and kept interesting, I learnt a great deal and will definitely be looking closer at what's on the side of the paints and thinners I've been using. Just to round out the use of the word turpentine, also another completely different meaning in Aus, if I were to say "I'm hitting the turps with Patto" everyone would know we were in for a solid drinking session 😄🍺🍺🍺

[@danielklinglesmithv2732]

All the random advice I’ve gotten about how to do oil washes was wrong lol. This really helped me parse threw all that advice and see the half truths in each bit of advice. Thanks. Subscribed.

[@MrPDoff]

Very informative as usuall, love your style of presenting

[@reconmodelsvaughn469]

Old Videos but it's my favorite and helpful video you have made .but I like all your Videos. I think you for your hard work in the hobby

[@homunculous007]

Finally got some "unobtainium" (aka Mr. Leveling Thinner) and had a miraculous turn around in the hobby using it with Tamiya paint. I've naively struggled with the water-based acrylics for a couple of years with each session being an exercise in voodoo. A 30% thinning ("reducing") of Tamiya with Mr. Level combined with a reduction in air pressure produced the most beautiful and controllable wisp of continuous paint I've seen. The hobby has instantaneously become fun!! Copious thanks.

[@schweinhund227]

I have learned so much in this video !!! Thanks for taking the time to make this ! KUTGW

[@michaelcharles4596]

Thanks for posting, good information, helped to answer many questions concerning thinning hobby paints.

[@jameswatt2166]

Great video very informative. I brought the tamiya laquer thiner as id read it could be used with acrylic and enamal,and can be used to clean the needle in my airbrush. Thanks for confirming that. 👍👍👍

[@JuanAdam12]

Good one, Will. Thank you for the knowledge transfer.

[@fubarmodelyard1392]

Lots of useful information. Greatly appreciated

[@swing.wing_singh]

Thank you sir. I started off with model building 2 years ago and even though I was a science student in school and college, and read all about these chemical substances, I was thoroughly confused between the terminologies of thinners/turps/turpenoids/spirits/mineral spirits and all that you've talked about. This video has been a very informative refresher on all those concepts and the way you explained everything was just so crystal clear. I am adding this as my favorite video though I don't think I would ever get confused now. Thanks again. Cheers from India

[@davidedgerly]

1/2 way thru I slammed the subscribe and hit the Bell... Thanks for all your hard work bringing this content to modelers...

[@andrzejgulik7475]

Thx alot Wil it was very helpful and educational .Take care buddy .

[@hkopper68]

Thanks for another excellent and informative video.

[@chilarai1]

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

[@mikeszczutkowski3066]

Great video very informative as always 👏🏻 👍 👌 😀

[@bamknm90]

I'm tired of expensive,faulty spray cans. It's time to try air brush. Thanks for your knowledge. I learned a lot.

[@matk4731]

Excellent information mate. Thanks 👍🏻👍🏻🙃🙃

[@johndaltrocanto]

it probably would have been an good point to add the acetone to the discussion, acetone is essentially the main component of plastic cement, that's likely why "hotter" lacquer thinners tend to damage plastic, they probably contain more acetone

[@harryhathaway1086]

I just bought Klean strip "Cleans & Thins. It does say Mineral Spirits but it does not mention the percentage. I bought it to mainly clean my airbrushes.

[@rickgarrisonhavc]

great video . I can't pronounce half the words you said ,but I learnt a lot .Thanks Rick

[@maamold]

I never had luck thinning MM Enamels with Mineral Spirits, the paint tended to become grainy. I always used their brand thinner and never had issues with it.

[@hgbarnes1584]

Bravo Will! Awesome!

[@jb_makesgames2264]

Excellent Video - Very knowledgeable - your reference to Distillates as very correct given my background. It would be interesting to know what combination of paints and thinners can lead to problems like enamels and acrylics.

[@Adeon1983]

Very useful and very interesting, thanks for the video

[@Sluf7]

Just came across ya channel great simple explanation on Thinners what who why and when. Keep at it now. ;0)

[@DavidMarzola]

Extremely useful. Thank you

[@KeithDenny]

thanks for the highly useful info. as someone who mostly builds Bandai kits, thinners are known to be their kryptonite. currently I'm using acrylics and x20A would you say there's a safer thinners to use on Bandai kits?

[@brucethemodelnoob]

I know this video is now several years old, but is there a chance that you still have the URL of that site with the various lacquer thinner recipes? (Great summary of thinners BTW)

[@MattR58]

Great info Will my brain hurts but you answer a lot of questions about thinners always wonder what white spirts are Hope you have a happy new year

[@outfield1988]

Thank you great teacher and speaker

[@joseem2534]

What would suggest to create a durable hard steadfast paint on a frosted glass surface. This gas’s has been acid washed. I need to change the color of something I’m working on.

[@johnmar1622]

question can i use enamel thinner from hardware store.(actone/toluene/organics)

[@kevinchapman4362]

Do you remember pactra paints ! ? I'd love to get my hands on a bunch of them ! Lol. I think they were the best paints I've ever used !

[@peterfelperin9405]

I'm back to model-making after a 45 year break. I've managed to watch nearly all of your videos. You are thorough, clear, humorous and a good teacher. Many thanks for your generosity. I'm focusing on 1/12 scale F1 cars presently; some planes later. While I really like Tamiya paints, I've been a bit disappointed with their metals - the metallic particles seem to large/coarse, especially compared to Model Masters Chrome Silver (as an example). Any comments on this? Thanks again, Pete

[@barpfoto]

mm Chrome silver is well-known with serious model makers as a good option for duplicating a shiny Silver finish. It also has some advantages as an enamel. You're also not wrong about the general consensus on tamiya metallics. I am currently a big fan of the offerings from Mr. paint.

[@peterfelperin9405]

Thanks for the reply; I'll do some tests w/other brands. By the way, you should offer a line of Will Pattison T-shirts - Your observation, "Water is a solvent... if you're a sugar cube", is a natural.

[@InterCity134]

On hardware store lacquer thinner - is it likely the acetone content of those that cause the problem with styrene?

[@mohammedalmukhtar5428]

A great presentation…thanks

[@kargandarr]

Apple Barrel is another that can be thinned with water. As far as that goes, is Apple Barrel paint able to be used in an airbrush?

[@julius7539]

I once bought a bottle of the "safer paint thinner.' I have no idea what it thins because it doesn't work with the enamels paints I've tried it with. It's also milky-white colored so I imagine it would change the color of the paint.

[@lancelehman1105]

I liked this, very informative. But got confused about the Mr Hobby paint characteristics-do the lacquer type work with lacquer thinners and water? Better to go with 400? Good video-subscribed now.

[@MoDub18]

So if I understand well, I'd better use Tamiya lacquer thinner or mineral spirit, when I'm cleaning recess or panel lines painted with Testors enamel paint.

[@joehouchens1675]

on the mission model paint, do you have to thin it, the water base paint

[@andreagiordano2689]

Hi Will, thumb up for your videos which are resurrecting after 30some years my long-gone modeling spirit 😉 Nevertheless, having chewed some chemistry in my life let me point out an incorrect statement in this video (which, nevertheless doesn't change things in practical terms): normal propanol and iso-propanol are slight different versions of the same alcohol. The molecule is based on a 3-carbon chain. In normal propanol the alcoholic function, namely the OH group, is attached to one of the ends of the carbon chain, while in the iso-propanol is the central carbon that holds the OH group. Written in letters n-propanol is CH3CH2CH2-OH while iso-propanol is CH3CH(OH)CH3. The same reasoning goes for n-butanol (a 4-carbon atoms alcohol) while iso-butanol can be represented on paper as a cross with the central carbon bearing 3 CH3 groups (aka methyl) and finally the OH group. Cheers 😁

[@barpfoto]

ha! no wonder i nearly failed chem 104.

[@lrr1952]

Lacquer thinners in enamels and acrylics?! Very informative video! Thank you.

[@videocast3655]

I tried to mix Klean strip with Tamiya x-11, 2 to 1 and the paint started boiling in the cup. I threw it out and went with IPA which gave satisfactory results..

[@jaydavee]

The Kleen Strip green odorless in that solid white plastic bottle is good for brush cleaning after painting with enamel. That's all.

[@downeastrailfan]

Thanks. This is helpful. Regarding cleaning my airbrush, I have some Tamiya LP paints to try. Can I use cheap hardware store to clean my airbrush? I've only airbrushed acrylics so far.

[@barpfoto]

lp are pure lacquer. clean and reduce with any lacquer thinner.

[@subanraj]

How to make nc thinner?

[@dasabaja]

Hey Will. I have question regarding acrylic thinners. I've noticed that you can thin Vallejo with alcohol based thinners like UMP. However, if you use just IPA (even if you dilute it with water), or anything else that contains alcohol (windows cleaners etc.) - the paint gums up and makes a mess. So, any idea why alcohol based thinners work but IPA does not?

[@barpfoto]

different types of alcohol, but in general it's only model color that's an issue.

[@samuelvasquez8170]

Great video

[@juggalizzle75]

So generally i use airbrush acrylics. On this project I'm using model masters metalizer metallic lacquers. For the prewash clear I'm using testor's glosscote. For the wash I'd like to use my oils thinned with mineral spirits. Will this be ok with the glosscote or should i use an acrylic wash? I plan on using the glosscoat for a final clear as well.

[@barpfoto]

definitely go mineral spirits based. generally always the best. you don't really even need a pre-wash clear.

[@dennissells]

Checking here in Thailand there's a number of mr hobby, 102,204 @ 108 thinner what's the difference please for labor and enamel Thanks Dennis

[@mattpabst6205]

Thank you very helpful!

[@hl1796]

thank for the video Will, i learn a lot from it, may i ask, since you say that you should use alcohol base thinner for acrylic paint, i wonder, can i use my medical alcohol (i still got a lot of it at the home) as thinner for my Mr Hobby water base acrylic paint ?

[@barpfoto]

yes.

[@hl1796]

wohooo, thank you Will, you just help me save a bunch of money for thinner ..(hobby, modelling product is a bit costly here in Vietnam)

[@PeterAgostiniJdcap26]

What does mineral sprites and lacquer thinner do to a airbrush over time ? Besides blowing out our nostrils ...ty 👍🏻 video.

[@barpfoto]

nothing.

[@jeansamson4079]

@30:09 Summary of each thinner and on what type of paint they can be used. Timestamping this as someone who's just getting into this stuff.

[@SansP3ur]

My painting is much like my golf swing, albeit, my 2-stage compressor is far harder to throw into the lake.

[@AugustusCaesar88]

Hi Will, I have a question. Mr Colour Levelling Thinner is my usual go to thinner, I find it to be superb when used with the mr colour lacquers. It also works perfectly with MRP. Lately I have noticed that Tamiya do a “lacquer thinner with retarder” with a bright orange lid. I was wondering if you have any experience with this? I assume it’s just their cream lid standard lacquer thinner with retarder added to it? How does it compare to MR Colour LT? They do smell significantly different so they obviously have at least a moderately different chemical make up. PS. Thanks for your videos, I find them very informative.

[@barpfoto]

i haven't used it but by all accounts it's similar to mlt.

[@rickkflores]

thanks Wiĺl i had learn a lot from you

[@mik2117]

Any idea what is in Zero Paints 2k clear thinners? Any known substitute?

[@barpfoto]

no idea. their other stuff is lechler.

[@PennysPitstop]

Excuse me for being late to the party. "You cant seem to find a good reason to use distilled water". I think I have the answer. When I lived in Norfolk (UK) the water was so hard that I wouldn't use tap water for ANYTHING. Wouldnt even drink it without filtering it." I now live in Scotland and the water quality is so wonderful that It's practically the same as distilled water. By the way, in case I haven't mentioned it before, love your videos

[@43rocket]

Can I use below with water based acrylics to slow down dry time in airbrush??? TAM87194 Lacquer Thinner Retarder Type 250ml

[@barpfoto]

no.

[@armarmo964]

Thank you, was helpful

[@Zen_Modeling]

Hi Tim, I've been watching your "how to" stuff for a while now & they have always been super helpful! I wanted to ask you what type camera & or combination of more than 1 you use to film all these which you post on KZbin? Also the types of software or apps used? As you've mentioned in your videos, I also have learned a ton from these & would like to "Pay it Forward" (so to speak)... I'm retired & can spend as much time as I want with our great hobby, & wanted some tips on the Video recording aspect. Thank! Lee

[@barpfoto]

Thanks, Tim. I use a jvc everio and imovie. I keep it simple because the truth is I hate video editing. That's why my production value is so low. ;)

[@Zen_Modeling]

Thx Buddy

[@andypreston2982]

what a great watch will

[@RaduB.]

Hello and happy New Year! I am beginning to think that you rarely talk nonsense... The video was very precise and informative. I tend to use with every paint range its own thinner. My fear was that if I were using the unlucky thinner, I could harm the toughness of the paint after it cured. Could there be a ground to my fear? Anyway thank you for sharing your knowledge with us! (I will surely keep on browsing through your posts 🙂.)

[@barpfoto]

ha! thank you, sir. i try to at least get the important stuff right. there's something to using proprietary thinners with acrylics since the recipes are all over the map, but with enamels and lacquers the formulas seem to be much more standardized.

[@Kabul81]

Another old school thinner for enamels is ronson lighter fluid!!🤔 Jman👀

[@mikeenomoto2048]

Question. For IPA, the concentration varies (70%, 90%, etc). How much does the concentration matter?

[@barpfoto]

Honestly… I suspect it doesn't matter very much given that so many of the materials you use it with also have water in them. But to keep it simple I always use the 99% stuff. I use that for 3-D printing anyway.

[@mikeenomoto2048]

Thank you. Appreciate your tutorials.

[@timothyhulme8885]

Hi Will, Heard you on Plastic Posse Podcast #20 recently. Regarding your Patreon page. I would like to join. Especially for the Fusion 360 Saturday live training. However I do not see a join link on your Patreon page and it does not appear to be active. Is there a link you can direct me to?

[@dud789212a]

"Look. Water is solvent if you're a sugar cube" i dont know why, but this had me cracking up X'D Sounds like slang for someone's whose "soft" :P

[@josemanrique9860]

Dude love your videos...what do you think about testor enamels paint??? Should I thin it with mineral spirits or thinner??

[@barpfoto]

thank you! as for enamels....mineral spirits, testors enamel thinner, or lacquer thinner.

[@josemanrique9860]

Hey dude what up..... how close should I be when painting with my air brush for example my hood looks smooth and done professionally but my doors came out with a grainy texture. I was shooting with 20psi idk if that helps, any advice?

[@josemanrique9860]

To get a wider angle of coverage should I use a thicker or thinner needle? I'm using a .2mm needle

[@jethrocathcart7452]

Wow, I need to watch this again. Take notes. Headache...but very nice overview.

[@43rocket]

what should I use for Tamiya acyrlics to reduce and improve paint flow??

[@barpfoto]

they have a retarder for their paint.

[@43rocket]

so use the Tamiya laquer thinner with retarder for water based acyrylics??

[@barpfoto]

@@43rocket tamiya aren't traditional water based acrylics. they're alcohol based and they have a retarder just for that, but it's mostly useful for brush painting. tamiya are actually some kind of hybrid that acts as an acrylic when reduced with water or alcohol, but as a lacquer when reduced with lacquer thinners. and, if airbrushing, you get superior results that way. slow lacquer thinners like mlt and the new tamiya retarded lacquer thinner will give you a very smooth, durable coating.

[@43rocket]

@@barpfoto I have a 0.3 needle in my air brush, can you put a 0.5 in there also??

[@43rocket]

so for the water based Tamiya ones, you can use the lacquer retarder? what about the x-20 thinner they have??

[@dsrduff]

Hi will, thank you for the amazing post. I am a big fan of your channel. I have a couple of questions for you if you would be so kind to share your wisdom. I am using mr. Paint for spraying and find them great(I know you use them too). I find that I use quite a bit of paint when spraying compared to Tamiya paints on a model. Do you experience the same thing? Can I thin mrp paint? What could I use? What do you you use, if you do? Is there a cheap thinner I can use to do this? Respectfully. Dave.

[@barpfoto]

thanks dave! mrp is ready right out of the bottle but you can reduce with any lacquer thinner. but, that will only make the coverage even thinner, so you'll need more layers and will end using the same amount of paint.

[@dsrduff]

@@barpfoto yes I am trying to make the paint thinner, so I can keep pre shading. I totally understand with the thinning. Do you find you use a lot of MRP paint when spraying? Thank you for your response and your time. Cheers.

[@barpfoto]

@@dsrduff not really but i tend to be pretty precise and not waste much on overspray. i generally work at 15psi from less than an inch away on military color coats.

[@dsrduff]

@@barpfoto thank you for the reply. I will try your method out. Keep up the good work. Really enjoy the information and techniques. Cheers.

[@madmikedds]

Awesome thanks

[@mugin11223344]

I did not know, that body-shop guys, hanging out together, was a thing. :)

[@InterCity134]

@18:04 - Oh goody. I know it says for the Testors sheet data "less than %", which means "no more than...". Which it must, because if you add up the percentages on the Testors data sheet it comes to 111%. Can they just not get a bit more accurate and come up with numbers that will add to 100% rather than us guessing ok, Proylene is it really 90% and the Xylene really 2.5%.. etc.

[@andyjones6995]

Another fab video. Can't go wrong with this chap's videos in my opinion. Excellent unbiased stuff. subscribe if you haven't already and look up his other stuff, really interesting. Cheers dude

[@outfield1988]

Tamiya lacquer will strip Tamiya sprat without destroying plastic. Hard ware lacquer thinner melts the plastic . Mr leveler is great sa is the Tamiya for lacquer thinner.

[@38dragoon38]

12:28: Enamel thinners discussed.

[@thorforsell1300]

THANK YOU for sorting out the mess of international thinner nomenclature

[@DeejTown]

I FUCKING LOVE THIS VIDEO

[@81artmonk]

While I appreciate the detailed info...all I wanted to know was what kind of thinner do I use for an acrylic and which to use for an enamel....

[@Fred-TranscendT]

:) thx.

[@keithTCU]

Ha! . . when I was a kid I'd use a cup of gasoline.

[@kenjohnston8173]

Ur good. But u need to get to the point, most ppl will drop u after a min of chatter

[@barpfoto]

so almost as fast as i drop people coming at me with unsolicited "advice" on what i "need" to do.

[@ryanschweitzer1494]

@@barpfoto your video was great and i learned alot. Don't listen to this fool

[@kellysnipe9586]

HONESTLY, you're getting a little too talky and nerdy in this vid----no offense. In this age of information overload what we DON'T need is unnecessary details; just the PRACTICAL points are wanted. So pleas cut the verbosity and don't try to be Albert Einstein. SIMPLICITY is the keynote in this era of mass confusion. So just try to DISTILL everything down to child-like simplicity, you know like those "See Spot Run" books you read as a kid.

[@barpfoto]

I don't know why you feel the need to yell about it, but it doesn't change the fact that of all the opinions on this… Yours is definitely one of them. If you somehow object to my commitment to important details and it challenges your attention span then you're free to fuck off to some other free channel where they just gloss over all of that. Sorry… Was that sentence too long?

[@kellysnipe9586]

YES, it was too long. You're a man trapped in a time warp circa 1950s Leave It To Beaver. Get with it. We DON'T need a chemical analysis of popular products. JUST the basics of what it is and how to use it, PERIOD. Now follow my instructions and you will improve. That's an order.@@barpfoto