Ep168: Hickory Trees - Shagbark vs Mockernut

In this video, we take a look at the shagbark hickory (Carya ovata) and the mockernut hickory (Carya tomentosa) trees and discuss the pros and cons of having these trees on the homestead.
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[@Jerseyhighlander]

The nut husks may litter the ground around the trees but it sure does turn into some fantastic, well drained soil when the soil bacteria and worms get done with it.

[@kurtsmith4657]

Pecan & Hickory is sold interchangeably in lumber markets. They are sister species and while a seasoned sawyer can differentiate, most folks cannot. I have 3 sawmills in North Florida and cut alot of shagbark, pignut, and monster pecan up to 75inches, all of which are potentially some of the finest furniture stock that grows in these parts. A fair amount of the straighter gunbarrel pignut & shagbark get cut into 8x8 & 8x12 for timber framing. A byproduct of this is high grade 8/4 & 4/4 clear off cuts, perfect for tool handles, furniture & the 4/4 stock for cabinetry. There is also a water Hickory that grows here in Florida in swampy areas.

[@Machi74005]

Pignut was the name I always heard. Never heard of Mockernut. Thanks for the tip.

[@RedToolHouse]

I had always been told pignut and mockernut were two different trees. Common names can be confusing.

[@Vireo]

Right. I was taught that pignut is Carya glabra and mockernut is Carya tomentosa.

[@superdog1964]

@@Vireo Your answer is correct. they are 2 different types of Hickory trees.

[@YouTuber-ep5xx]

Pignut and mockernut were the two main hickory species growing in my backyard when I lived in Falls Chuch, VA. The mockernuts had much bigger nuts and leaves.

[@-infinity0infinity61]

Nicely done! Tree identification can be a task from a book. Keep these coming. I to live remote in W.V. and always learning about the trees! Thanks for sharing.

[@GraceHomesteadFarm]

I was so excited when I found the old hickory trees on our farm. We have several shagbark, shellbark and pignut trees!! I feel the shagbark is the easiest to break and delicious! I actually just made some pesto with hickory nuts and it was so good. The pigs Love them!!

[@RedToolHouse]

Great idea to use them in pesto!

[@grantmcdonald192]

Much enjoyed several of your tree videos! You are clearly a very well informed homesteader, with a well rounded knowledge. I've been battling junk trees on my little 3 acres in Southern Ontario for almost 25 years. I'm finally making some real headway, and trying to figure out what trees to plant in place of garbage trees we have removed or lost. Really enjoying your videos. Thanks man!

[@marbleman52]

I live here in North Central Arkansas in the foothills of the Ozarks. My front yard is 80 yards long and 60 yards wide, and along with my Red and White Oaks and Pines and Crepe Myrtles, I have 5 Hickory's...3 are Shag Bark and 2 are Mockernut...and the ground under all of them are loaded with eaten Hickory nuts from squirrels. I really like the look of the Shag Barks, especially the older ones where the bark is in long, wide strips and just barely hanging on...so neat looking.

[@RedToolHouse]

They are an attractive tree.

[@silverghosthunter]

@@RedToolHouse When I think of Hickory one thing comes to mind. My grandfather always said "Hickory is the first nut of the year to fall, if your squirrel hunting go to a Hickory and wait, but you might need a hard hat."

[@HarrisonCountyStudio]

I’ve been told that a species of bats will nest/roost in the bark of an older shag bark Hickory. I believe there are certain times of spring that loggers avoid cutting for this reason.

[@oldlincolnpipewelder]

Baseball bats and BBQ.. gotta love some Hickory 😎

[@zurdac4511]

Thank you RTH, I learnt something again from you today about Hickory trees. I didn’t know there were 2 types and how to ID them.

[@SM-bu9bz]

Great info , recently moved on to 5 acres with a ton of Shagbark, bought a small mill to mill some up for my deck and a few other projects as well and some woodworking. Love the tree, its a great straight trunk. Wasn't able to get to the nuts last year, maybe this year I will, from ok mnahatnive seen is hickory milk frommpressed nuts is supposed to be great and was a cure all for the native Americans.

[@kirkbarley4999]

I live Central VA at 2700’ and very humid, over 100’ rain 2018. Issue I had with my Shagbarks is they hold their leaves very late. 2018 Nov ice storm broke 4 of 5 in half from ice load. The other hardwoods lost 1/3 of canopy, some trees were lost, but none were as decimated as my beautiful Shagbarks. Nice video.

[@jimmclean4876]

A very good lesson on hickory trees thanks

[@markpiersall9815]

6:49 Shagbark Hickory tree; the curled shaggy bark provides nesting for small birds and bats that eat beetles, moths and mosquitos. This is a good tree to plant near your favorite fishing spot. The small bats eats a lot of mosquitos.

[@joemc111]

Troy nice show about the Hickory trees. Not sure what type we have in 34698 but I collected some nuts October 11,2022 to see if I can grow a tree. Lots of videos about nut trees, storing the nuts for spring planting.

[@pyroman6000]

We have Pignut up here in NY and CT, too. Just got my hands on a bunch from a tree service! The bark looks very different, though- very similar to that on the upper limbs of cottonwood trees. The bark is smoothish and very tight.* It has white sapwood and dark brown heartwood, and a fairly strong smell: sourish, fermenty, and vaguely smokey. Very distinctive. Very hard, and very heavy! It's green as grass, so it'll be awhile before I can burn any... That load of wood was a mix of pignut hickory, sugar maple, and cherry. All green and fresh cut. Needless to say- those stacks are quite fragrant! * come to think of it, some chunks of wood I scrounged earlier that look just like this- and figured to be cottonwood- might actually be this. (looked exactly like the limbwood on my cottonwood trees) I've burned some and it does NOT smell like cottonwood, which is very distinctive, esp when not fully seasoned. It's heavy for it's size, too.

[@dylansylvan6398]

Thank you, very, very informative. Best tree video tutorial.

[@galaxycacti8154]

I like cutting stray branches, drying them, and when I use my charcoal grill, I soak the small trimmings in water and toss a handful on my charcoal coals. It adds a great smoke bark.

[@robertdblair4925]

My dad told me he had a team of horses and one would lay down on the tongue breaking it so he made one of hickory it bend but did not break spring right back

[@hermitld]

Hickory bark and nut shells produce a natural dye too, homesteaders used for coloring their cloth. Don't locate a metal roofed building within range of a nut tree if you don't like the racket the falling nuts can cause.

[@RedToolHouse]

No doubt! Can sound like a gun shot!

[@glendawest9871]

Yep tell ya what we use to do with them take whole throw in a small pail of water let them sit until the water turns black break out the charcoal when coals have a little 3 or 4 nuts is enough for the standard size weber. Mike west nephew

[@___PK__]

No kidding! My neighbours run-in shed is under a big walnut. I thought the kids got a drum set!

[@Vireo]

You're right, shagbark is easy to recognize at a glance because of the shaggy bark; but make sure you don't mistake it for a shellbark!

[@P.B.Theriver]

One of my hickory trees was dying so I cut it down and was surprised to see so many growth rings. I tried counting them but they were so close together that it was hard to get an accurate count but my guess is somewhere over 100. Your trees look about the same size and probably over 100 years old.

[@OldHoboManYouTube]

Trust me, the hickories in this video are not 100 years old.

[@michaeltewes7833]

Trees need several feet of space to grow and flourish.

[@c.j.rogers2422]

Here in Central Fla, oak is extremely common. I like to smoke on a combo of oak and hickory. Mmmm, thinking about that pulled pork is making my mouth water!

[@RedToolHouse]

Fire up the smoker! We will be right down!

[@c.j.rogers2422]

@@RedToolHouse Bring it on! Well serve you up a big bowl of swamp cabbage on the side!

[@djpickle68]

I wish I could get some of these as seedlings from Michigan stock trees

[@billeybop]

Great video and thank you!

[@DadGummitMan]

Great info! Thanks man.

[@beebop9808]

I grew up and spent half my life in the western NC mountains. There was plenty of Hickory growing up there. I don't know exactly where they start dropping off but they do very well at 2500 and best I can remember they hang on pretty well up to around 3000 probably a little more. But they along with many other trees start falling off drastically around 3500 and others start taking their place in the forest becoming more along the lines of Elm, Spruce, Fir and Hemlock. Pretty cool place really. Like a whole nother world in the south.

[@chuckk458]

I may have said this on another video of yours, but we have a buuuuunch of shagbark hickories at home in Ohio. Always liked them! Though, not so much the dents they can leave on vehicles. 😂

[@RedToolHouse]

No doubt!

[@davidtromblay9503]

I've been able to dig up seedings with an undamaged tap root after soaking the ground over three days.

[@dmgsnowy8759]

Also I've been collecting nuts not a lot as there's critters getting to them, but they drop as early as the end of July but August too! Not in large quantities however

[@jodysappington7008]

thank you

[@digbyodell2924]

Very interesting, we don't have either occurring naturally here (shagbark gets to within 40 miles) but we do have the bitternut! I guess that's exactly what it is too; keeps the critters from consuming them unless they're really desperate so they're quite prolific germinaters but since they are so slow growing like hickorys are, they tend to get crowded out by maples and basswood before they reach maturity. The bark is hard and tight, more like pignut but even smoother crisscross. In fact the bark will throw sparks like crazy from a chainsaw if it's dead and dried out. As smokewood it's flippin' awesome and the smoke smells great as well when burned. I don't know any downsides and like them a lot unless I was forced to eat the nuts I suppose. : )

[@RedToolHouse]

Good to know. I haven't messed with bitternut. I will have to look it up.

[@carpenterfamily6198]

2:36 Mockernut - compound leaf. 5:04 Crisscross bark pattern

[@rickershomesteadahobbyfarm3291]

I recently found out that the trees I have growing wild are hickories and they drop a lot of nuts that I’ve been walking over every year. I collected a 5 gallon bucket full and now I’ve got to let them dry. Then I need to crack them. And they are hard to crack lol

[@reginaldbrown8794]

🤔 I bet his pigs taste amazing, without smoking.. Open range & fed organic hickory nuts 👍🏼😁

[@YouTuber-ep5xx]

Enjoyed the vid. I'm not sure, but I believe pecan is not so much related to hickory, but IS just another hickory. Pecan hickory. The hickory most viably commercialized for nuts. The western edge of the natural range of shagbark hickory passes through my county (zone 4) here in south central Minnesota. Not many shagbarks left due to mono-crop ag that has taken over here. One of the prettiest sights in the county is an old stand of shagbarks along a small creek in what is now a cow pasture. I have shellbark growing here as well (bought on ebay), and man, is it robust/vigorous.

[@jgonzz10028]

Have you ever thought of putting up some type of "cone" around the base of a Hickory which would collect fallen nuts and keep the critters from eatin' them? Something like this might already exist but it seems like it would be a time saver..

[@markjohnson6498]

Shagbark hickory is great for firewood. Only rock elm puts out more btu's. Shagbark is great for cabinet making because it has very straight grain. But most of all shagbark's are beautiful trees. They have a great canopy and make great shade trees. When I clear land I try to leave the shagbark's if at all possible. We have a lot of shagbark here in the Michigan area. Cool video.

[@RedToolHouse]

We keep them around too! Hard to spilt by hand!

[@davidmushal7862]

I’m fairly certain you got the mockernut and shagbark nuts backwards. The name mockernut comes from the fact that it appears to be a larger nut, but once the husk is gone, the kernel itself is pretty small.

[@gugoop6918]

Shagbark in Newengland I saw a few mokernuts in Manchester nh in a park

[@MrThenry1988]

I have 3 shags to take out. I don't cut live trees when I don't have to. I have to get them gone. Gonna jave to bring them home now.

[@BushImports]

What about if you take an air layer off of a mature producing tree,also I see that the shagbark grows about 2 feet per year, does the mocker nut grow at about the same rate? Thanks man.

[@RedToolHouse]

I believe they grow at the same rate generally. Depends on conditions.

[@mawuho1566]

Thanks for sharing this great information. I think about planting hickory my self here in Germany. But it is relatively dry in my region (about 800 liters per square metre a year). Is the shag bark hickory for this climate? Is it possible to buy hickory nuts commercially in the states? All the best from Germany, Maximilian.

[@RedToolHouse]

It could possibly grow in your region but you would be waiting decades to see any results. The nuts need to be stratified to germinate. I would be worried about buying nuts that are prepared for consumption and not germination. Check to see if you can order saplings from somewhere.

[@thefirewooddoctor]

I have some hazelnut on my property. Any idea on variety identification and determination of commercial value? If can cultivate it, would make for a little extra income.

[@RedToolHouse]

I would definitely confirm ID even if that meant acquiring the services of an arborist. Determining annual yield would be the next step then identifying your market and potential buyers.

[@MrVailtown]

My dad always said , I'll let the beef process my salad for me into a medium rare steak. So gonna let the pigs do the same with those nuts. Nice fully cooked pork chop.

[@RedToolHouse]

No doubt! I don't have the patience to shell them!

[@jaytodd5809]

So which hickory tree makes bar b q so good?..

[@RedToolHouse]

I believe most use shagbark

[@anthonypoole6901]

Shag bark is great i have them here

[@williamstewart8449]

Add to your list that the Native Americans made bows from hickory trees.

[@michaeltewes7833]

The first thing to do is cut the poison ivy and the climbing vines off the trees.

[@randyranes5358]

Can do hail like damage to vehicles

[@blakespower]

I couldn't cut any of the trees down. especially Nut Trees in fact I would plant black cherries and black walnut trees that wood is very valuable but probably woudlnt be ready for harvest until I died 50 years later

[@Dontworryimaprofessional]

What do you know about Indian marker trees?

[@RedToolHouse]

Just the idea that the trees that have the double bends in them have some connection to them.

[@carpenterfamily6198]

7:05 Shagbark

[@charronfamilyconnect]

Can humans eat mockernut nuts?

[@thefirewooddoctor]

Here's a good question. At what level/amount of splitting firewood does buying versus renting a splitter make sende, and when buying, whst size/type of splitter is best for a given situation?

[@RedToolHouse]

You come up with some of the best video topics. I had something similar to this in mind to discuss but I will add your suggestions to it.

[@thefirewooddoctor]

@@RedToolHouse Either I already have the questions in my head or videos I watch on homesteading inspire them. Some of the videos I do, like my chainsaw shootouts, is something I would do on my own even when there is no camera around. And like in your video about "build your shop first before the house" is what I'm doing in the spring. Will house a camper inside it to live in, rest is shop/storage space for now.

[@RedToolHouse]

I like that idea! More shop space over living space!

[@thefirewooddoctor]

@@RedToolHouse Building a temporary camper garage for this winter, then build a 24x40 or a 32x48 garage. I like to build in multiples of "8" in building size. 32x48 will be a really nice shop size.

[@c.j.rogers2422]

@@thefirewooddoctor I agree with the multiples of 8 rule! Less cutting, less waste, cheapest per foot materials.

[@libertyforever836]

Mockernut hickory is not the same as pignut hickory. Pignut hickory proper term is “red hickory.” They are two different species. Carya momentosa is mockernut, and Carya Glabra is red or pignut hickory. Pignut is harder on the janka hardness scale.

[@LloydJarvis]

Shag bark not good for smoking. At least that's what I found.

[@RedToolHouse]

What issues have you found with it?

[@LloydJarvis]

Doesn't have a good smoke flavor.

[@garykersteiner4936]

Those pigs must have jaws like a vise. I'm familiar with hickory nuts and you need a hammer to break them open . Wouldn't want one of the pigs to chomp down on me

[@PANTTERA1959]

I love Hickory Nuts but you'll starve to death trying to eat them. Tiny meat for a lot of work.

[@RedToolHouse]

No doubt! Could be a good weight loss program. Eat only what you can crack!

[@blakespower]

the mockernut is very stingy very small nut matter compared to the shell

[@havensoutdoorworld3656]

Deer don’t actually eat hickory nuts.

[@RedToolHouse]

They also don’t eat rose, crape Myrtle, blackberry, and autumn olive and yet here we are watching them eat all of these things. They most certainly eat hickory here. Don’t crack them but definitely eat on the husks.

[@montypalmer4556]

Searching for hickory info resulted in ZERO reference to mockernut except for this video. You don't mention shellbark hickory which is VERY mentioned by nurseries etc. Why would you be so outside the hickory world reality?