EP19 Asymmetrical Perspectives

[@youknow7768]

Carlin is patient and thoughtful. I listened to this all the way through just to hear how he maneuvers around being critical and just adds context throughout. Masterful is all I can say.

[@ComUnSas]

Hi Max. The CIA is on the phone saying thank you for implying that the US hasn't and doesn't carry out aggressive asymmetrical warfare

[@deutschedogge3223]

You spelled Mossad wrong.

[@soniama5246]

I agree with you

[@Idislikeyourfacealot]

@@deutschedogge3223 or did he???? 🤔 could be a secret doge whistle

[@StarboyXL9]

Dear Lord it's so ytepilling to be reminded just how many history fans are based beyond belief. Godspeed to you all.

[@slavojzizzek7562]

@@StarboyXL9 I'm sure we're all russian bots, at least according to Max.

[@nethysian3773]

This interview was a burning lance of frustration speared into my cerebellum. Max Brooks is an ideologue, and it shows.

[@yungpep]

His delusions are set in concrete

[@manalishi_hs]

It's interesting that when they are discussing the countries that stir up discourse in the US, or contribute to cyber-disinformation, that only Russia is mentioned, and there is no mention of Israel (who has a military division dedicated to cyber disinformation, and they have a large control over our inner-workings in the US) But I am assuming from his last name that Max is Jewish, so maybe it is not surprising that Israel is not mentioned.

[@DF-ss5ep]

@@manalishi_hs It's difficult for us to know which countries do it and how disproportionally. However, we should be able to agree that ALL countries with the means and motive for it probably do it: Russia, China, Israel, USA, and I wouldn't be surprised to find on the list: UK, Germany, India/Pakistan, North Korea/South Korea, Japan, Iran, even Ukraine, and so on. Memory fades quickly, but let's not forget previous scandals of espionage and counter-espionage between the USA and France and Germany. That's part of the game, it's just that there's a new weapon in the arsenal now.

[@manalishi_hs]

@@DF-ss5ep I understand what you are trying to say, but what does bringing this up add to any discussion? You are just diluting the discussion by bringing up 50 other countries. I would like to specifically focus on Israel, is that okay?

[@int0xicated17]

This comment though. Love it!

[@briansantos2287]

This dude is a senior fellow at the modern War institute but sounds like a senior in high school.

[@TheCowardRobertFord]

I didn't knew anything about Brooks' political ideas, but WWZ was a very good book, and Dan Carlin's guests usually know about the subjects of the conversation, regardless of what you feel about them (see Musk, Elon), but man, what a bummer. It's not to say everything he says is wrong, because it isn't, but his ideas feel pretty much like a guy raised in Hollywood by two famous and (rightly) beloved parents would say. Most of the time he ranges from extremely naive to downright authoritarian, when not just stupid- my favorite moment was when he complained that LA was the worst place in America and everything turned to shit, then says he first started paying attention to local politics just now with nearly 50 years of age and the same thing happened with many of his (certainly well-to do, if not rich) friends, and doesn't seem to understand how the two might be related.

[@philm3507]

For real, a lot of garbage takes in this one

[@antielfimationleague231]

Well he is right about LA. LA is basically Haiti now.

[@PavelHenkin]

Dan, hats off to you - your half of the interview was amazing and much more.. professional and engaging than most would be able to pull off.

[@miamijules2149]

Oh great.... Well, good to know Max Brooks is on the wrong side of these issues. Good job, in any event, Dan. Love your podcasts and all the work and effort you put into it!

[@LouAlvis]

I am just starting this listen I wonder if you can tell me what to look out for in Mr Brooks' position, you find wrong, so far, 15 minutes in, he seems believable. can you point out his fallacies?

[@adamnoturfuknbusiness2367]

bruh saying people have to be blue checkmarked and that this will solve things is one of the most awful and smooth brain ideas i've ever heard. not to mention it's unconstitutional, that'd be like making people show ID to use postage stamps or write a book. i really like how when dan is describing max youre like oh he's a genius, then you hear him and its like oh this guy was just a rich kid given way too many opportunities.

[@nethysian3773]

All his arguments are spoken exactly like those he rubs elbows with in the upper strata: he doesn't conceive of people having wholly different values than him and having come to different conclusions on political issues because of it. His arguments are thoughtful and correct, and everyone else just is wrong and needs to be responsible, and he's too blinded by ideology to see that it is this trait that is making the divide so extreme.

[@yungpep]

Max prides himself on his ultra glide smoothness

[@adamnoturfuknbusiness2367]

@@nethysian3773 agitators are an issue but even mfs against agitation be agitating (as exampled in show) because so much social shit is now in writing and you have to pick a narrative. To have to write something out puts more stress on declarative statements.

[@-Zevin-]

This is ironic, I agree with your comment for the record, but this is exactly what Elon Musk is talking about doing to Twitter, and fools are celebrating him for bringing back "free speech" to social media. Yet everyone is overlooking the fact that he has specifically said everyone on twitter will be "verified"

[@Idislikeyourfacealot]

I think I can win the debate if I can just force people to agree with me.

[@ryansims5415]

"We" think that Max likes to generalize everything. "We" also think he has a very narrow perspective.

[@r0br33r]

He sounds like a white supremacist sleeper ngl

[@moseshamlett3887]

I just finished the podcast and wasn't too pleased with what I'd heard. I also felt the same vibe from Dan. Like he wasn't sooo sure he agreed with ole Maxy boy as thibgs played out. Came here to check out the comments, and I'm pleasantly surprised that the majority of you had the same experience as me.

[@ComUnSas]

If Carlin did video casts I'd ask him to blink five times repeatedly if he was being held hostage somewhere

[@devonhorejs7593]

Same here. Dan is a badass but what in the fuck was this?!

[@ygaudreault]

Yea, 3 minutes in, you know it's going to be a pretty extreme opinion when someone start's by saying "we need to remember how to fight in the gray zone". Although, that is how we won WWII. Bombing civilians to deter the enemy's moral and industrial might seem's pretty gray zonish to me.

[@DB-pr4rc]

@@ygaudreault Strategic bombing didn't win WW2, except in the case of the nuclear bombings. Arthur Harris and thinkers like him thought that they were going to bomb Germany into submission, but they couldn't even bomb Caen, ONE SINGLE CITY, into submission. All they did was turn it into rubble for the Germans to hide in, and the infantry had to clear the city the old fashioned way, just like we had to march all the way to Germany. I get the hope of strategic bombing, but it just didn't pan out.

[@willbeard4835]

@@DB-pr4rc it didn't pan out because the necessary weapons to make the strategy effective weren't developed yet. Targeted and large scale nukes have the effect the allies were trying to achieve in the early 40s. It's safe to safe a targeted bombing campaign of major cities with nuclear weapons today would have the effect of diminishing morale as well as destroying infadtructure like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, like you said.

[@briansimerl4014]

Brooks boils everything down to an adult versus child dynamic. Sometimes minimalism is just naivety. I think that's the case here. Also the analogy Max Brooks uses of requiring legally to verify all users online as being the same as labeling food was maybe the most foolish thing I've ever heard on a podcast.

[@DF-ss5ep]

Yeah, I'm still at 40 min and can already tell where he's coming from. The more I listen, the clearer it gets that he's an authoritarian (I'd even use the word fascist). Glad to hear Dan Carlin pushing back on his bullshit

[@briansimerl4014]

@@DF-ss5ep people who defer to the protective "Mother" often are more comfortable with blanket Authoritarianism.

[@enoughrope1638]

I remember reading a book back in the 90's where they had a sort of tiers of internet where there was a world wide web anyone could access anonymously, a citizen internet that anyone could access but you needed to prove your identity, and a professional internet where anyone could access but were limited to their expertise.

[@dannyboy8474]

@@briansimerl4014 Reminds me of the Richard Dreyfus "tell me what to do" rant on Bill Maher. "The next time the towers fall, what will we do?" We'll capitulate to draconian measures over a virus that only kills obese and old people.

[@yokothespacewhale]

at the very least I determined he wants his mom to run the world.

[@thepeopleshistoryofus]

The most naive guest he has ever had. This reminds me of my understanding of history and diplomacy that I had in junior high school.

[@andoriannationalist3738]

A very kosher understanding.

[@MrFramue]

No, the most naive guest was Elon Musk.

[@ComUnSas]

Not naive. Outright propaganda

[@yungpep]

@@andoriannationalist3738 almost Tribal

[@deutschedogge3223]

He is not "naive" he is your enemy and wants to destroy you.

[@manalishi_hs]

"I live in LA" "I've suffered and sat out in the cold to support a local candidate" What kind of cold are we talking about here? 55 degrees? xD

[@4gegtyreeyuyeddffvyt]

This Max clown didn’t bring much to the table.

[@mustavogaia2655]

@@4gegtyreeyuyeddffvyt At some point, CArlin's pauses sounds like "sj!t, Iaggre to a 90 minutes interview with him. Do I save him and stop this now or just keep him talking to see how much rope does he need to hang himself."

[@slikh]

Been known to snow in LA from time to time, but knowing how to dress is another story.

[@user-uy1rg8td1v]

He sounds like a limousine liberal. Which is a shame because I loved World War Z (the book).

[@anderamericanus2286]

Max “Democracy for Me and not for Thee” Brooks. Glad to know he’s well versed in asymmetrical warfare and is afraid of an American “insurgency”…

[@philm3507]

This dude is a joke

[@cosmicmuffet1053]

Oh my god you guys! What if a bunch of right wing authoritarians start throwing all our fundamental human rights out the window, obfuscate the truth constantly, and use racial politics to form hate groups that oppress and destroy people's lives for crass political purposes while pretending to be righteous!? Wouldnt' that be AWFUL!?!?!?!?!?!

[@RamonesFan201]

@@cosmicmuffet1053 sounds like a confederacy doesn't it?

[@michiackermans4577]

@@cosmicmuffet1053 "Right White Supremacists"* - Max.

[@JStrauD]

@@cosmicmuffet1053 I can't tell if this is sarcasm or projection 😂

[@xx-gp4me]

Max seems to have some very simplistic ideas and seems convinced that his opinions are always correct and everybody need to be an adult (and by adult he means think like him).

[@andoriannationalist3738]

Oyy Vey! Be an adult, childish American! Oh MY GAWD! yOUR QUESTIONING BIG PHARMA VACCINE SAFETY?!? RIGHT WING EXTREMISM! WHYTE SUPREEMACISM! It’s like anotha shoah!”. He’s so afraid of Muh Russian bots, he’s literally a meatware ZOGbot.

[@xx-gp4me]

@@andoriannationalist3738 Hey man I disagree with his opinions, but your antisemitism stuff is horseshit.

[@BlackPawnMartyr]

@@xx-gp4me Why do you hate black people. I see your post everywhere hating people of color. XX is a racist.

[@Baseballnfj]

That's what happens when you grow up in a sanitized, fictional world. This is fucking Anne Bancroft's son.

[@RobVollat]

How dare someone actually think differently than you? As in him present his evidence and everyone on the internet who claims to be open minded immediately claim that he's attacking their freedom, which is bullshit. You and those who think like you are the problem here.. and I used to be in your camp until the "tea party", "Ron Paul" right wing Republican take over came along, which then lead to Trump, which I was absolutely shocked that people went along with as if they were the hero of the condemned free thinker. It's absurd to even contemplate how far gone anyone is who supports the idea that Russian bots don't exist. They most DEFINITELY do exist. You may agree with what they spam, but that doesn't mean you should just say they don't exist when clear evidence is presented to you that bot farms are VERY real. Over 50% of all internet traffic originates from a bot farm as of 2019.

[@tomchelle1]

Dan needs a different guest if he wants to talk about asymmetric warfare

[@col.cottonhill6655]

I dk how you can fall for all the propaganda and think you are enlightened on Asymmetrical warfare

[@andoriannationalist3738]

@@col.cottonhill6655 no you don’t get it. He is fighting asymmetrical warfare in this video, you’re the enemy.

[@col.cottonhill6655]

@@andoriannationalist3738 he's just bloviating.

[@andoriannationalist3738]

@@col.cottonhill6655 lol ok Boomer. You may not be worried about your own gov dragging you off to a gulag for having political self interests as a white 70-80 year old male, but I assure you, the younger heritage Americans are being targeted in this way. “Right wing extremism! WhYte supreeemacism!” is now wanting to control our southern border instead of die for THE Ukraines borders. Or stating maybe we shouldn’t create more hate speech laws. Or maybe no foreign nation shouldn’t be above criticism, not Russia, not China, nor Isr.. (Censored!).

[@col.cottonhill6655]

@@andoriannationalist3738 first of all, I'm 34 years old you idiot. But I'll let you make your little assumptions. And I'll tell you one other thing. I'm not afraid of being dragged off anywhere. Because they'll have to kill me. I won't go peacefully

[@HornoftheMark]

Beware the man that views anyone who disagrees with him as a problem to be solved. This is a person who will do no end of evil with a clean conscience. Stick to your local LA politics, Max, and leave the rest of us in peace.

[@joshleap]

This is the first guest I've heard Dan Carlin talk to that strikes me as overtly intellectually dishonest.

[@DarkEmpire5663]

Can never get enough of Dan Carlin! Thanks for all the work you do!

[@guilliamedemascy2413]

Max brooks is the epitome of the janny mindset.

[@qeter129]

How much does a janny make?

[@deutschedogge3223]

An insane, violent neocon.

[@kwazhims3lf]

fcuk jannys, and fcuk juice

[@Hiraeth-zq8ze]

@@kwazhims3lf I don’t agree with you, you must be a bot.

[@StarboyXL9]

@@qeter129 You aren't gunna believe this, but he does it for free! FREE! Can you imagine?!

[@yy6zhen]

I love when Dan question Brooks about using the word “we” so many times, it is so hilarious that he can’t response to satisfy Dan and many listeners. when someone start to differentiate “we” and “they, that person is Not looking for debating but assimilating. Ignorance and arrogancy enhances the each other in a person that leads one to simplify issues and believing in their judgement. Dan has many international listeners who knows about their home much better than Brook’s stereo type images. Personally, I believe to have a better communication between each other is the key to solve differences between people and nations, and to have a better communication the most important criteria is to admit probably we don’t know much about each other.

[@sarichey1]

I agree with much of what you said. And the whole white supremacists taking over the nation is ridiculous. So disingenuous but just like Brooks with the whole blue check mark and trust the experts internet stuff he fails to mention that there are experts on both sides of most issues. He most likely will just trust his side. Oh well. I like Dan pushing back with the whole "we" thing. Good conversation

[@Thorshammer9]

Yeah we are in the midst of asymmetrical ideological war and collectivist language is definitely a red flag for not exactly being on the team I would want to win.

[@twt000]

We = Center. The great and good. Always have defined America's true values.

[@hobojoe488]

Agreed, he either doesn't get the intention behind the question or is purposefully deflecting it. I would have loved to hear a broader discussion of the importance of buying into a unified national narrative a bit more. I've also lived in China, and Vietnam, and saw how citizens there do make an impact on a local level (alongside the blessings and administration of the top-heavy national government). Even in authoritarian regimes, citizens can't change the meal, but they can augment the recipe and flavor. Brooks seems to only know American cuisine.

[@bradtaulbee5928]

This guy was saying how he lives in the worst neighborhood. This guy needs to get a reality check. So arrogant. I'm disappointed that Dan had him as a guest and honestly I expect better from Dan. This is the first podcast I had to turn off and not listen to the whole thing. I guess there is a first time for everything.

[@dshepherd107]

I don’t know what Max means by “we” from the 1990s. I certainly didn’t live that life, nor did anyone I knew. We all worked a lot. I feel like Max is being a tad condescending. Maybe Max & other kids of his socioeconomic status just played & screwed around, but we didn’t. I just am not buying his interpretation

[@col.cottonhill6655]

Yea but still I think there's an unreasonable pressure that kids today face. Mostly because of social media. I don't think any of us who grew up before social media can really comprehend. Facebook didn't exist during my childhood. Thank God

[@andoriannationalist3738]

@@col.cottonhill6655 lol. Just Turn it off. And if you’re the parent of a child, make them turn it off.

[@liamdevine8063]

I think it just works as a blanket cliched description because basically we're away to be so fucked compared to that time, in general I mean, most in the west can still interpret their environment and find success with endeavour and luck.

[@andoriannationalist3738]

@darknightoftroy “he’s speaking from the perspective of elites” Sounds antisemitic to me! Why do you have to turn everything into your own personal obsession?

[@andoriannationalist3738]

@@VileFemboy in the 90s MSM had total control of propaganda, and that is what he is Kvetching about. Now our foreign elites have to compete with other foreign elites and even their plebes. Anyone can create a YT channel. This is why you hear calls for censorship. This is why you hear Trump calling for censorship after being deplatformed off the entire internet.

[@cy9152]

Glad to see this guy followed his father in to comedy! That bit about Desert Storm not being about the liberation of Kuwait, but being about culture, really brought back the genius of Space Balls. Great interview Dan.

[@yungpep]

These parody interviews are amazing

[@philm3507]

This dude is an absolute farce. I don't need a blue check to know this dude is out of touch with reality.

[@Tor010]

Ah i forgpt that film existed

[@ddwkc]

I feel like the interview got a little derailed. It may be a little to do with the initial remarks, but it morphed to something I'm not sure they are really qualify to talk about when they mix so many heavy stuff at the same time like homelessness, social media, political climate, misinformation, ideas of national identity, and so on. Each of these aspects would be a talk by itself, but I get very little from the proposed main course where the guest should be specialized at.

[@andrewjohnson516]

This conversation was possibly better left un-loaded

[@Marcifare]

This was the worst guest Dan has had on his show by far, which is especially painful after the excellent episode with the Iranian dude.

[@andoriannationalist3738]

Oyyy Vey!

[@briansimerl4014]

Instead of verifying everyone and making it easier to aggregate us all into camps, by abandoning freedom and anonymity, internally censoring ourselves is also risky. Better to err of the side of too much freedom.

[@Deridus]

I very much still love the "Addendum" line.

[@shinjukucalling763]

I still love Blitz lol

[@bobbyray8457]

I’d still love more of the “Common Sense” line.

[@zericle1]

Around the 27:00-28:00 mark I was taken aback. Nothing against Dan personally, it was the fault of Brooks, but I just couldn't listen after this point. He doesn't seem to understand the right very well, and I'm saying this as a left-leaning person. Brooks is being divisive, and this isn't what we need in our politics right now. That's the way I see it. Maybe Dan didn't do enough vetting on his guest. Let's hope that the next guest is a bit more...qualified on the subject matter.

[@xx-gp4me]

I am a literal Lenninist and his complete lack of understanding shocks me.

[@dannyboy8474]

He sounds like he never had a father.

[@Davethebalikid]

@@xx-gp4me it makes me happy that Dan has such a diverse audience -ancap

[@Mr2ndAmendment]

This dude really needs to travel more. I took my history degree to Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere. Speaking so confidently on military affairs -some of which was downright wrong. Service, combat, and travel would really help this dude. Glad you did your best to keep that crazy ship from crashing into the rocks as best you could. Makes perfect sense he did anything with Westpoint. Helps explain how bad our Pointer officers were.

[@slavojzizzek7562]

When you can get a professorship because you wrote a few books about zombies and your dad is influential, it's not really a serious academy. This dude has zero experience in anything and he probably bills that as a feature (I'm an outsider and not stuck fighting the last war like Petreus, etc.). Unlucky for him, there's a genuine outsider who had way better takes on asymmetrical warfare (he called it 4th generation) way earlier. Most USMC maneuver and COIN doctrine is based on William S. Lind's work.

[@Coolkitty639]

Mr. Brooks will solve you right into the Gulag.

[@AT-wj5sw]

That wasn’t the Russians arguing not to take an untested vaccine. That was me and all the other free thinking Americans…. I live in New York not Moscow.

[@MrXenon1994]

I had a dream last night that Dan Carlin uploaded a new episode (about some Middle Eastern Cold War conflict like the Iran-Iraq War or the Soviet-Afghan war or the Gulf War, I can't remember exactly what it was). I wake up and alas, he's delivered.

[@self-transforming_machine-elf]

'Graveyard of Empires', each episode covering a different time Afghanistan was invaded, callin it now

[@jamesmearonmorrison]

Thank you Dan, I really enjoy hearing your perspective and how you guide the conversation. I feel Max came across as a little naive and inconstant through some of the show. For example he really seems to believe in the 'marketing material' version of America. But when it comes to China, they should go their own way because liberalism didn't prevail on it's merit?? There were a few moments like this. Anyway, I always enjoy tuning in to your show and leave with new thoughts. Good luck with the big show🙂.

[@col.cottonhill6655]

He's inconsistent on everything. But idk what else to expect from a lefty

[@yungpep]

Agree with that 100% The motivational zeal of the left to recreate [Communist utopia mk6] pushes through the abundant negative evidence. It would be funny if it wasn't real.

[@Qraze69]

@@yungpep ok, robot. 2022 and the bots still can't upload profile pics......

[@charlesramirez587]

@Qraze69 the bots thing is very weird to me because noone is convinced by online comments and are only reinforcing beliefs. It's nothing but an insecure boogeyman even if real would be the most nothing effect on the real world. The anti vaxxers and trump voters would still be there, bots or no bots.

[@col.cottonhill6655]

@@charlesramirez587 this is the least intelligent thing I've read all day.

[@timmychang1791]

I’ve never thought Dan could be so patient. Even though the things he saying most Dan’s audiences or viewers could repeat n debate but years ago.

[@Sprayber]

This is two people having different conversations. Dan is talking about the reality of the world while Max is living in a pretend world. Max keeps saying we can do it while Dan is asking why aren't we doing it? Max isn't bringing anything to the conversations except his own narrow view. I really hope nobody important is listening to Max Brooks.

[@yawnskidsberry3209]

Me 15 minutes ago: “ why didn’t I listen to all of this episode “? Me after listening to Max for 10 minutes: “ Oh Yeah “

[@devonhorejs7593]

I love that even though the “dislikes” are hidden, we can all read the comments and agree that Dan Carlin is badass, but this guest is... terrible

[@markfrank3307]

You think they don't censor bad comments too?

[@devonhorejs7593]

@@markfrank3307 I mean. They didn’t sensor all of the negative comments on this video and that is what I’m talking about. Yeah of course some comments are censored. My point is that they tried to take away the dislike button and the comment section basically is acting as the new dislike button for now, until they completely disable comments too

[@pkernoob786]

@@markfrank3307 For the purposes of getting a general consensus on the feedback of/ for a video it's not that big a deal. Specific types of speech and/or comments from people that get reported a lot.... yeah that's starting to get more censored on YT/ elsewhere.

[@LightningNC]

There are extensions available for pretty much every browser that unhide the dislikes on KZbin. Just search "unhide dislikes" and you'll have plenty of options.

[@406Style]

@@LightningNC It´s currently at ~1470 likes to ~170 dislikes. The addon seems to be quite accurate too. At least by the accounts of the handful of content creators i´ve spoken to.

[@gabrielmorales3441]

The fact Brooks ignores all the very coercive policies the US carried out all around Latin America, Asia and Africa, when he said "we knew about the importance of the environment" i almost spit laugh, how can someone ignore the history of the world so willfully

[@ozark8043]

Agenda driven and deliberately ignoring these facts. Consider who he probably works for.

[@arontesfay2520]

Honestly, I think this is mostly a matter of perspective. It would be one thing to criticize him if he denied the US' covert foreign policy in South America (and else where) or tried to minimize it. It sounds like you're mostly criticizing him for what he didn't say rather than what he did.

[@alexlaw1892]

He's a Leftist from California. That's how. They tend to be low intelligence people.

[@pkernoob786]

This guy actually says, "I was a part of living history." Like he's in the trenches getting bombed with the grunts... He sounds like a naive young college kid. This is a man with an agenda for sure.

[@Q_QQ_Q]

yea lol

[@dontyouhaveacomrade1585]

History isn’t just wars and bombs.

[@danielmeissner4521]

You're killing it, Carlin...today's events show how important things you've covered in the past year & more. Much love⚡⚡⚡

[@diculdicul1]

Max's politics are really unifying... They can be hated by both republicans and democrats alike!

[@Hiraeth-zq8ze]

That’s the politics pushed out by the CIA

[@didbiddy3480]

democrats + republicans = $ame

[@diculdicul1]

I agree, when it comes to foreign policy, there's virtually no difference when it comes to the parties stablishments...Being Spanish myself, I really believe that a parlianentary system allows for a better transtation of the people's believes into politics than a duopoly.

[@moorbilt]

Gotta love confident charisma. It can cloak naivety like no other. Decent convo Good egg

[@amantryingtodogood9061]

Dan is so modest. Max asks “you know your Roman history?” And Dan responds with “some” haha cheeky Dan. Also, the hate in the comments toward Max Brooks arguments are good. His whole stance is that other people should have other stances and the disagreement means western democratic values at work. Best attack what you disagree with and not attack Max Brooks the person. Attacking the individual is the cheapest way to argue.

[@Hiraeth-zq8ze]

I haven’t seen a single person attacking max brooks but it seems that every comment is mocking his worldview.

[@StarboyXL9]

I'm not attacking him, I am simply pointing out his heritage. Surely since if he has done no wrong then this is nothing to worry about? Right? 😀 I'm sure that Max and his ancestors have nothing to hide, no siree!

[@DrTheRich]

Democrat activist in Democrat ruled LA realizing that LA has been a shit hole for a long time but not being able to understand how that happened, and why his neighbors have started watching "opposite TV" is fascinating...

[@col.cottonhill6655]

I was born and raised there. I can't tell you how many morons I know think this way. It's really sad.

[@DrTheRich]

@@col.cottonhill6655 sad thing is, I'm from a country on the other side of the Atlantic ocean, and even I know about this. A city I've only ever seen in movies, never been or care about, know it's current state of homelessness, unpayable high rents, undrivable traffic, intolerable arrogant Inhabitants, and insufferable politicians. I feel you man.

[@col.cottonhill6655]

@@DrTheRich thankfully I was moderately privileged compared to so many. But life is much harder here now vs before. It makes sense you would be aware. American politics and social issues seem to be of great importance in especially the western world. I mean it's 375 million people and America is the great experiment in liberty and freedom. God bless and I hope things go well for you guys over there in Europe too.

[@moseshamlett3887]

He said something about not believing the propaganda about the problem in LA. As in to say, no the conservatives can't be right! There has to be some other factor in all the Democrat run cities going to hell in a hand basket. I blame Russia! Ivan and Igor did it. They must have turned LA into a shit hole!

[@elijahoster-morris1408]

No offense to the lovely Dan Carlin. Your guest seemed intelligent but speaks like CNN forms his vision of the world. He is not who we need training our young officers. He can help General Mille understand White Rage.

[@4gegtyreeyuyeddffvyt]

This feels a lot more like a common sense episode than hardcore history.

[@Marcifare]

Except Maxie didn't have an awful lot of common sense.

[@kwazhims3lf]

@@Marcifare .. wha.. whuu.... how dare you igor boris, you russian troll!!! you must be a white supremacist, identify yourself! we cannot have anonymity anymore! its racist REEE

[@alexlaw1892]

His guest is more into Common Communism then Common Sense I'm afraid.

[@shrimpanzee001]

We need longer episodes Dan, much longer. Never get tired of listening to you.

[@maccumhaill5534]

Max is a dangerous utopian, and he cannot see it. @37:33, yeah, no buddy, you totally lost me there, blew your credibility

[@elijahoster-morris1408]

Muh Supreme Pizza my fwiends at WaPO say we need a social credit system.

[@yungpep]

@@elijahoster-morris1408 we need an Early Life check on this dude

[@Davethebalikid]

He’s not wrong though, people in the national security system have this fear. I mean the white supremacy bit is batshit, and the fact that right wingers didn’t stand up to the Covid state when it prevented them from going to church ect. shows the impotency of the modern right.

[@denniscannon769]

At least we have a good example here of two people debating a comprehensive array of very relevant issues, and edifying the public both by fully illuminating their contrasting opinions, and by setting an important example of disagreeing in a very civil way. That said, I feel that Brooks gives Carlin a great opportunity here to espouse his deeply thoughtful positions. And it is a little difficult to listen to the child of a famous director lecture us on how we have to be more responsible, grow up and work harder. I guess it depends on what you mean by 'work' If that means to try harder to enact political reform, or to make our politicians accountable, I agree.

[@DæmonV86]

This is the only place other than Joe Rogan where I have the privilege of listening to intelligent people who know what they're talking about engage in a genuine conversation where actual points are made to give the listener something to ruminate upon later.

[@brendenbaxter3269]

Lex Friedman!! Maybe you don't like him but I had to mention him.

[@JamaaLS]

21:45 "our power is exceeding our wisdom" that's deep.

[@Sam-nk6hk]

😂

[@Acetyl53]

It's literally spiderman.

[@carbonfibercrypto2919]

This guest has almost nothing of value to add, but he sure thinks so.

[@richardhausig9493]

Left or more left. Biden is tough on China? Only in Lala land

[@carbonfibercrypto2919]

i guess that was meant to be a clever retort

[@daytona-x7b]

this guy doesnt seem capable of moving past his talking points and engaging in a creative conversation with fresh ideas. Dan is listening to him, trying to build on what the guest is saying yet the guest keeps coming back to his overall vague ideas. Better guests are needed since Dan is clearly the smarter man here. He even pointed out multiple times how they're arguing in circles. Dan takes a step forward with each response but the guest refuses to move from the starting point. But anyways this has been my first interaction with Dan Carlin content in years and I''m happy to find out he's a great interviewer even if the guest is bad.

[@julians7268]

Darn you Dan! I am still excited, but I'd hoped for your perspective on Ukraine and Russia.

[@michaelharhaj5640]

This is the only podcast of Dans I won’t finish. Max is a joke.

[@pant0sand0hat]

Thanks for everything Dan.

[@Martijn_Steinpatz]

I feel Western Civilization doesn't need a grand project to bring us all together, rather it needs its governments to do its job properly. This might sound mundane, but I think we all had our fill for grandeur.

[@jon4139]

Doesn't the latter require a bit of the former in a democracy?

[@JohnMaxGriffin]

@@jon4139 yes, any government type in fact

[@christiansantos8904]

It's time to rebuild the interior, before the whole rotten core comes crashing down

[@thomasscream4179]

40:20 - 41:00 That is patently untrue, and it reeks of American exceptionalism on Max's part. Local level governance(at the level of the city district/village/town etc.) is quite dynamic in China, and probably more influential than in the US. Its common for the central government to implement policies that were the result of successful local level experimentation nationwide, and these local level governments are directly elected, which allows for phone calls, door to door campaigning and other quaint democratic practices, consistent with the CPC's current line about direct democracy only being effective at the local level. If you're gonna write "chinese bot" or whatever, save it. *edit Man, I really appreciate Dan's openness to questioning the military industrial complex, and the necessity of the unprecedented global reach of the military.

[@arthvader1]

Curious how many dislikes this video has. I miss the counter.

[@Bakarost]

Suprised dan allowed this to air. Not hardcore history standard.

[@kwazhims3lf]

waiting for dan to go through intro.. reading comments.. comments bad.. uh oh.... read description, still listening... the words "sr fellow" makes my heart sink.... then the phrase "wrote for SNL" oh boy...... i have not even heard max speak yet... and i already know this is going to be bad

[@oakson3045]

Dan Carlin's mind has unfortunately been scrambled by the unremitting information war. What a tragic casualty, I loved his historical podcasts.

[@4gegtyreeyuyeddffvyt]

Dan and his buddy Joe Rogan are racists!

[@col.cottonhill6655]

@@4gegtyreeyuyeddffvyt if you lefties want to attack Rogan. You're gonna lose Alot of centrists who sided with you in the past. People that follow him do so for a reason. They actually enjoy him and his show.

[@ComUnSas]

He's been courted by various arms of the military industrial complex. That could go to anyone's head

[@4gegtyreeyuyeddffvyt]

@@ComUnSas Dan is now merely a product of the liberal media industrial complex!

[@danielziemba8045]

“Russian bots”: the favorite canard of every defender of the American political establishment and its power.

[@indegruv]

My doubts and distrust about jabs had nothing to do with bots. Ive had them for over 20 years

[@elijahoster-morris1408]

He came with MSM talking points shameless partisan hack.

[@iEatCheese33]

*more dan carlin YAYYYYY* Its an interview..... fuck

[@rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr1]

Thanks comments for saving me from wasting 90 minutes and harm to my opinion of the podcast.

[@StoryboardMindset]

I applaud Dan for having people with all kinds of differing views. I vehemently disagree with his guest on most issues on this episode but i still think he has a right to spout his inane ideas.

[@jamesrule4074]

This guy stands for every reason why people think Americans are the most entitled and self-gratifying people on the planet. Mercia number No.1!!!!

[@williamsutherland1175]

Relax

[@jordansweet7738]

When I heard Max say that there is a huge, very real threat of white supremacy in this country I lost a lot of respect for him. I know that times are changing very fast these days and it may have seemed that way when this conversation happened, but as a white male who goes to work every day and gets along with everyone but the government, I don't see white supremacy or MAGA extremeists as a threat to my country. If my government believes white supremacy is a threat to the country it's only because it's the biggest threat to their pocket books. The biggest problem in our country right now is misinformation and manipulation by the mainstream media. Things can improve if the government would stop lying, but that's clearly too much to ask.

[@ZombieCoGaming]

I've been listening for about an hour when does the topic in the description start about asymmetrical warfare? The guy he's interviewing gets off topic multiple times and you can tell he has a pretty biased attitude towards right-wing radical racists that have obviously been on the mind of every left winger since the last 20 years. Coming from an independent person I just don't see that yet it gets slammed into our brains in every medium we watch or hear on the radio or TV. Bad right wingers, racism, radical. It doesn't make any sense and it's not what I'm actually seeing in reality. We have major issues in this country because we don't hold people accountable we let criminals go free. we don't help people that have mental issues and we don't force people to take responsibility for themselves it has nothing to do with racism.

[@andoriannationalist3738]

All while screaming muh Russian bots and WhYte wing supreeeemacists, if an american notices his tribal affiliation, then that’s antisemitic! When do we get to point out Zionism is poisoning our country way more than Muh Russians and Muh Domestic Terrorism/White SUPREEMACISM?

[@col.cottonhill6655]

He lives in a bubble. And grew up in one. I automatically cannot take anything anyone says seriously after I hear them say that white supremacists are the greatest threat.

[@andoriannationalist3738]

@@col.cottonhill6655 he cries out in pain as he strikes you. He always calls heritage (white) Americans with independent opinions and self interest as evil, but don’t you dare point out that his genetic minority tribe is running rough shot over OUR society, all while they have their own nation state just for them, or you’re a hateful bigot that must be crushed using the jackboot of the very gov you are forced to pay taxes for protection and service. Lol. Will someone please just say it? Look how cowed they have us with these political correctness shame tactics and language games? I think it’s time we go our separate ways when a certain group gets this paranoid.

[@andoriannationalist3738]

@darknightoftroy he isnt talking ABOUT asymmetrical warfare. He is fighting asymmetrical warfare, and you’re the enemy Heritage American. “By deception, we wage war”-Mossad.

[@xx-gp4me]

@darknightoftroy he kinda seems like a nazi to me

[@resignator]

The comment section here gives me great hope. People like Max are far more dangerous than they present as.

[@chrislewis2791]

Good conversation but I'm not a big fan of this dude... but as always Dan was great

[@matthewsutton3677]

Dan showed an awful lot of patience this episode

[@yokothespacewhale]

29:00 i wonder if he realizes a specifically important thing in this discussion is lacking just that.

[@johnchristopher3032]

I'd like to ask Max those questions right then and there. In that context.

[@StoryboardMindset]

Right?! I laughed so hard at this part.

[@yokothespacewhale]

@@StoryboardMindset proper response detected🤡

[@Silrk246813]

So good. So interesting. Love the thoughtful conversations.

[@billisaacs702]

He's wrong about enough fundamental points that I bailed. Example: we didn't learn anything from Vietnam. Utter bulllshit from a guy who was never in uniform. Another example: Desert Storm was a showpiece sending the wrong message. Desert Storm was the final kick which demonstrated to the Soviets that they need to forget any idea that a last mechanized push in Europe would save them. And all that that implies. Smart guy but total armchair. As Twain said, it isn't what you don't know that gets you into trouble; it's what you know for certain that just ain't so.

[@StoryboardMindset]

Correct. Ask the SEALS if Vietnam produced a plethora of education.

[@mrme8521]

Dan... I like most of your podcast. This one not so much. It's not you, but your guest. He's... Just not you. You do details. This guy... Generalities. Sorry if it's offensive to your guest. But... It's true

[@Jinkaza1882]

2 shows in 9 days? Blessings. Blessings from the Lord! God be Praised!

[@willbeard4835]

I'm sorry but I laughed out loud when he said Russian bots were on message boards sowing discord about vaccines years before covid. That was hilarious

[@russellblake9850]

This is IMHO the most amazing article I've heard, it should be part of every high school current affairs curriculum. Any reply has the danger of turning into a "Dan Carlin 5hr podcast on Cleopatra" but here goes. One comment I'll make probably won't be well received in the US but here goes ... Why should the US to responsible to change other countries political structures ? (following on Max's comments that the US should change trading treaties with China because they didn't change China's political structure). If this is the understood position of the US, how do you think the Chinese political powers perceive the US ? Is democracy such a wonderful perfect "good" that all other political structures are "wrong" and must be changed ? How would China react if the publicly stated position was "we'll leave the Chinese people to their politics, and China leaves the US to theirs" ? And 2, the problem with the internet is that it's structure didn't envision criminal or subversive behaviour. Duh!

[@Jeremyak]

Hoo boy, I had to bail out of this one when your guest started talking about taking away anonymity online. Terrible, just awful nonsense. Bring back Common Sense please, there is so much to talk about and relatively few people are acknowledging any of it whilst western society is circling the drain.

[@briansimerl4014]

"If we can identify them, we can solve them" - Max Brooks

[@LLlap]

Dude actually advocates for total internet deanonymisation. So that we could cancel all wrong think! Brilliant idea. Lets ruin the last place on Earth where people can talk

[@Lornext]

Yeah, he seems damn insane.

[@shin0bili]

And he's a total hawk against China

[@requited2568]

Why don't we have every person tracked and monitored, because it has worked so well before. Also let's trust the government to provide truth and ethics while we are at it. If only there was a channel that would cover those historical mistakes.

[@LLlap]

@darknightoftroy an idea should have merit on it's own and should be discussed divorced of who put it forward. Now if you are talking facts like birthday of a 17th century poet then it might be useful to know that it's a literature professor speaking. But you can just google the poet. On other topics, especially controversive, people will just default to "this dude is a ***** and therefore I will just disregard anything from him". Also, again, he wants to supress some ideas by supressing the speakers, he wants a list of thought criminals. I want my 4th amendment.

[@ytrules35]

This is where he lost me too. Without anonymity, there would be no Federalist Papers, etc...

[@isaiahrivera7407]

YES! Thanks for posting DAN!!!❤️👊🏼🙏🏼💪👏🏼🇺🇸

[@larson0014]

White Supremacist's? really? theres really zero chance of that growing, can definitely tell he lives in LA and is a check marked twitter user...

[@AQuietNight]

It was White Supremacists that ran riot through many parts of the country burning down buildings a few summers ago. None were wearing MAGA hats and were pretty friendly to Progressive causes.

[@cosmicmuffet1053]

I appreciate your uh. Neutrality Dan.

[@cosmicmuffet1053]

Yeah ok. I'm out at 58. This guy is a bummer in terms of what we have to work with in the dialogue.

[@ScarriorIII]

I'm starting to think the only asymmetrical perspective here is his...in fact, its rather pear shaped.

[@oldboyplays900]

It's interesting to come back and listen to this 6 weeks into the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I think a lot of things Brooks said in the second half of the interview turned out to be fairly accurate; it turns out once the invasion has started, Javelin missiles are a good way to deter Russian aggression, and on the other hand European and US employment of those "soft power" economic interventions are the present go-to without further military escalation. I also think some of what he said about the US taking a hard stance (in this case, Biden wanting to remove Putin from power rather than giving him an out to end the war) will be seen as the right move with a little hindsight. I'm actually probably one of the few people who was happy to see Brooks listed as a guest, being a fan of his WWZ book. I don't agree with everything Brooks said here obviously, like others have said I think he's got a dubious understanding of certain areas of US history and probably an agenda, but I do think he at least knows what he's talking about when it comes to the modern geopolitical chess board. Assuming this all doesn't conflagrate into nuclear war, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. My hope is something can be found to end the bloodshed quickly. I don't think anybody benefits from a protracted siege in Ukraine.

[@mustavogaia2655]

45:00 - Maybe he could listev to some "opposite TV" - people were talking for ages about many things that he thinks people are only now waking up too. The turning point can be that the homeless now are reaching better neighborhood. and now they became annoying. I doubt that the people watching "opposite TV" were the people that promoted that homeless could camp anywhere.

[@zissou6928]

Somebody sounds a bit ahead of their skis

[@geodav5700]

Interesting. Painful to listen to.... beware Authoritarian measures as the state has failed and those policies enpower the prisoner dilemna of stupidity.

[@geodav5700]

GOO GOO GAH GAH ....

[@ozark8043]

Great conversation. The guest kind of gave himself away with how he referred to vast amounts of the population. He's very adept at presenting his agenda without giving his views though. We DID know all along China would use our business against us, and if we'd had social media back then, I'd bet he'd support me being banned from it for saying so.

[@amanitaylor7280]

Every episode is a treat

[@yungpep]

but not every guest

[@patrikjohansson5939]

Here's what we need: KZbin asking for your credit card number in order to verify your age. This will solve everything.

[@dgoss1337]

Listening to this in May of 2022 is eerie... it aged sooooooo poorly...

[@bmdmaloclm]

right! the conversations around Russia and the Donbas. Also when they mentioned defense against china. We are living history. Crazy stuff if you pay attention ;)

[@jclayton76642]

I have been a fan of Dan Carlin since 2016. Very much enjoy the way he leads discussion and value conversations of differing opinions. Interesting how Max makes a point to bring attention to the 12 remaining white supremacists left in the world but did not feel that it was important to talk about any other ideologies. Also disappointing that his claim of white supremacists being the domestic threat to focus on is not substantiated with any evidence or contrasted with any of the other toxic race based ideologies that have taken the west by storm in the last few years.

[@deutschedogge3223]

Brooks is a Ultra-Zionist, him complaining about ethno-nationalism takes some cutzpa.

[@Sam-nk6hk]

This is a good example of what was talking about when he was describing how there is no "we" since "we" won't even agree on what is real. With respect, Sir, ideologies are not what the interview discussed at any length, nor is ideological "equal time" a virtue in this context. If you want to hear things from a specifically right-wing point of view, there is plenty of other content you may enjoy.

[@tomstokoe5660]

Going out of your way to assure people you're not advocating for the Bush doctrine is the geopolitical equivalent of saying "I'm not racist but".

[@davidmacminn8206]

you have your colors opposite for Lucky Strike in WWII. The inner circle was green and they changed it to red.. since us army needed more green dye.

[@danirizary6926]

Brooks has some pretty crazy conspiracy theories that "coincidentally" require his preferred totalitarian solution.

[@raulalejandrolucerogarciar4326]

Haven't been this disappointed about an artist interview since the McConaughey one from Jordan Peterson