EP48: Leather Tanning 101

Horween Tanner, Esteban Perez, explains leather tanning and retanning. Leave your tanning and finishing questions in the comments.
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[@johnmoon9562]

There are so many facets of the process just begging for a deep dive. It would be fascinating to learn more about the dyeing process. What are the dyes, what are they made of, and how do different formulations and colors interact with varying skins? Great work guys, love the content.

[@officepatina]

As a science nerd, this was by far my favorite episode yet. Really appreciate Esteban's insight. I would love to see a few more episodes with him diving into the details. Also bonus points to Nick for highlighting The Boys. It's the best show currently on TV.

[@brianbeaver3596]

Maybe this is a bit of a tangent, but it seems that there are two basic kinds of tanneries - those that receive hides that have already undergone part 1 of the process (“blue” hides?) and perform their own re-tanning (part 2), and those that receive completely untanned hides and perform both part 1 and part 2 in-house. I could speculate about the trade-offs here, but I’d be interested to hear you all discuss this aspect of the tanning business. Thanks!

[@AshlandLeather]

This is the best fg episode

[@chrislee8888]

Eagerly await the Lou Malnati’s x Horween x Ashland butter crust chromexcel collab

[@GMjava]

For me this type of content is one of the greatest that can be found. You guys are as important to me in the field of leather as Lenny Susskind is in the field of physics, or Rick Beato in the field of music. Thank You so much for allowing me to understand why do I like the things that I like!

[@MyPantsAreOhSoFancy]

I didn't understand a lot of the technical jargon that Esteban was saying, but this was an amazingly informative episode. Thanks for that.

[@AveryH7]

Im loving the frequent uploads! This is an awesome episode too

[@Matt-uf2nc]

Are tours of the tannery available to fans/ the general public? I’d love to go sometime! Thanks for another great episode, learning about tanning is really interesting.

[@shirayasha]

I love getting into the weeds of leather creation. I don't think there is any other similar video like this out there, except for the other episode from years back

[@F.R.G317]

Its really cool to begin to think about leather as a chemistry subject. 👍 Esteban is a true chemist!

[@chrislee8888]

This was an excellent deep dive into the world of tanning. We’re guided by the enthusiasm of the guest and the hosts, as well as the enthusiasm of a targeted audience. The audio levels are always nice despite zoom, and the editing to allow a clear view of Esteban’s white board is also well done. It’s fun to say that this is the best and only leather podcast in the world, but if there’s somebody starting a second, they’ve got a lot of work to do to overtake this one. And, also, Chernobyl is a great watch.

[@chrislee8888]

I’ve got some questions that are both more in depth about tanning and more superficial as well: On a molecular level, how are chromium and polyphenols (tannins) interacting with the collagen matrix? Are they bonding to the same or different sites? Are aluminum and chromium bonding to the same sites, but chromium just is able to form more ligands than aluminum? Are you able to illustrate what’s happening in a simplified way? (Edit: went back to the old video kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGqqip96f9iqaqM and see that chromium is bonding to the carboxyl groups in collagen then bonding to other chromium molecules to form a polymer network) With regard to shell cordovan, my understanding is that shell is a hyaline cartilage membrane, meaning it is primarily composed of type ii collagen and chondroitin sulfate whereas most leather is made from skin which is primarily type i collagen. Does the chondroitin play any role in the different characteristics of shell (is this eliminated during bating as well) or is it more the different chain structures between the types of collagen? Is it fair to summarize the advantage of hot stuffed leather compared to fat liquored leather as having both more volume of fat and more fats that are typically insoluble in water? Is it as simple to say the advantage of using these fats is just the difference in textures between oil vs. tallow/lard/animal fat vs. beeswax? I think one take away from the 101 course is that leather is the end result of hundreds of different decisions to answer the question of “what do you want to make?” Can you connect the dots as to how all of the following statements could be true over time: “If I want to make razor strops, then I should use shell cordovan.” “If I want make gaskets, then I should use chromexcel.” “If I want to make winter work boots then I should use shell cordovan.” “If I want to make boots for marines fighting in Africa then I should use reversed cxl or waxed reversed cxl.” Through history, what to make with these leathers has changed, though the leather hasn’t. I guess the question in there is, if you started from scratch and you said “I want to make boots” would the end result still be these tannages, or would you maybe create or use a different product? Or does that question just lead to the question “what kind of boots?” Or is it more like “let’s make this awesome leather and no matter what it’ll find a home because it’s awesome?” Specific to Esteban: What are your favorite leathers to make at Horween tannery? What are your favorite leathers to use? Are there any leathers from other tanneries that you respect/like in terms of how they look, feel, or are made on a technical level? It seems like you could point to dozens of different individual decision points that would make Horween leather unique, from the chemist’s perspective, what is the overarching guiding philosophy behind those decision points? Would also be great to hear what Phil and Nick think.

[@chrislee8888]

Guest Request: Tony Medlin, Chicago Bears equipment manager - kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJrMo5mOpcuEpK8feature=shared. He’s probably about to be very busy, but he’d be a cool person to talk to about football leather and performance footwear amongst other things. I’d also love to see Horween Tannery pop up in the b roll for this season’s Hard Knocks in Chicago.

[@brunonjezic6208]

Great episode! I just got my Nomad case that I heard from Nicks. It says it is a veg tan leather. What leather was this, was it developed just for them?

[@davidallen2763]

More chemistry!!!

[@alanc6468]

Hi FG podcast. I used to only wear sneakers until I discovered heritage and quality. My dream is to have a white shell cordovan sneaker. I'm wondering if it is currently not possible because vegtan cordovan does not have a good Leaving Group such as Chromium Oxide? What can be done so we can have white shell cordovan sneakers?

[@dunghoangnguyen5086]

I mostly see oak used in its bark form instead of cooked into extract. Why is that?

[@_Sunmaker_]

“What’s the best leather?” To me means what is the most expensive leather to make. My guess is cordovan is the most expensive to tan. Not sure what leather tannage horween makes is the most expensive per sq foot.

[@animusfault]

What is Esteban's favorite leather? Horween and not Horween.