EP70: Shafi vs Hanafi Debate on Rafu'l Yadain - What's the Evidence?

[@salaamseeker]

As always, we hope you find this episode beneficial! Although this debate has been had since the time of the Sahaba, and differences have been agreed upon, we want to show you how both opinions are supported by evidence! We respect all positions of the 4 madhaahib and intend no disrespect on whatever opinion you follow. Insha'Allah, this video gives you a little glimpse of why we have differences of opinions and why we'll continue to have them. Also, around minute 26:00 there is a video glitch on one camera angle. However, there is still audio :)

[@BenIqra]

Loved this! I have been a muslim for about 13 years and have only just started studying fiqh. I love the acceptance of difference in opinion and how you are normalizing it.

[@salaamseeker]

Jazak'Allahu khairan brother

[@syedtareque2140]

We need more discussions like this. May Allah bless us all.

[@salaamseeker]

Ameen!

[@adambawamia2014]

Very Beneficial discussion on Raf ul Yadain from both Hanafi/Shafi perspective, Just suggestion maybe a future discussion from both Hanafi/Shafi madhab could be the issue on topic of beard since there is a difference of opinion from both schools of thought and a lot can be discussed on this topic regarding evidence from both sides.

[@salaamseeker]

Jzk for the feedback - we'll add that to our list insha'Allah!

[@UrDreamNet]

I started my Islam with Shafi’i and transitioned to Hanafi. No Ill will towards anyone. We need more talks amongst each other. This was Beautiful Masha Allah

[@AdamAli516]

An extremely informative and civil discussion on an issue that eas never an issue in the first place. The discussion displays how we can agree to disagree.

[@I_A97]

Excellent video, may Allah reward you all A video on the Hanafi and Shafi views on Fatiha behind the Imam would be interesting

[@salaamseeker]

Great suggestion - we'll add this to our topics list, insha'Allah!

[@mikhan5191]

the earliest Madhabs (Hanafi & Maliki) follow the Sunnah of eyewitnesses more while the later Madhabs rely upon Hadith which can easily be misinterpreted.

[@markaden7582]

MashaaAllah this is how discussions should be. Humble, humility and well reasoned and respectful discussion. Not like the speakers corner nonesense lol

[@TheUnternehmer]

Thank you for this discussion, i think it gives the laymen a good insight in schools of law and usul al fiqh. Maybe one could have more elaborate on the hanafi principle umum al balwa too

[@salaamseeker]

Jzk for the feedback!

[@a5amr2]

As someone who used to follow salafism I find this discussion beautiful. Follow hanafi fiqh now.

[@salaamseeker]

JazakAllah khair for watching 🙏

[@hamsaisa9515]

What does that even mean 🤣 I personally know hanafi salafis. Salafiyyah doesn’t mean u can’t follow a madhab.

[@mikhan5191]

​@@hamsaisa9515- Salafis are outside of ahl asSunnah walJama'ah. They reject the established Sunnah in a number of issues where all 4 Madhabs have NO disagreement.

[@hamsaisa9515]

@@mikhan5191 if u say so, maybe u should go study

[@Adhilmedia]

​@@hamsaisa9515 So called salafism previously called as Wahabism/ Wahabiyya you should study first

[@thelastrainshower]

A cool topic would be regarding combining prayers or the issue of praying the Sunnah of Fajr after the Fardh of Fajr. Also, this isnt really a shafi'i/hanafi issue, but could the scholars discuss the issue on photography and videography, digital videos/pictures, etc...

[@salaamseeker]

Jzk for the suggestions!

[@alisherkhan4749]

Lovely discussion

[@afnankhan5989]

SubhanAllah, I just had a fiqh lesson with a Sheikh who mentioned the hadith that Sheikh Noor uddin used to support Hanafi position. He related raising the hands (raful yadain) with a lack of tranquility in prayer. Our Sheikh pointed out that if that's the case, why do Hanafis raise their hands during Salat al-Eid, since it is against tranquility in prayer, it must apply on every prayer?

[@salaamseeker]

Jzk for your comment! Response from Shaykh Noorud-Deen: Asalamualeykum, anyone who studies Quran and Sunnah will know there are often exceptions to general rules. Whenever we find evidence for an exception, we apply it. Therefore, the Hadith narrations preventing the raising of the hands will be applied unless we have evidence of exception. We do find such evidence for the Eid Salah. Therefore, we will raise our hands. Just like how the Adhan is called before prayer but not for Eid or Janazah. General rules often have exceptions. In any case, neither my position nor your Shiekh’s position is above that of the Sahbah. And many Sahabah advocated for praying without raising the hands.

[@afnankhan5989]

@@salaamseeker Love and respect to you guys and may Allah bless you and guide us all towards the truth. Making dua and sharing love with brothers if my message sound rude or harsh! :) Can we know whats the evidence of raising hands during salat ul eid that would create exemption?

[@wassar7526]

This is more for the layman this comment. There shouldn't even be a debate on this issue (discussion yes)...the whole issue should be that both are correct in practice and are sunnah...the scholars say that every1 of the sunnahs should be enacted upon throughout the world and this is happening. We are all together in fulfilling the sunnahs daily! 🤲❤

[@ni3467]

All Imams accept it. Its about virtue. Its an academic discussion. Usul fiqh is key here. Imam Tahawi explains this very well in his book

[@khoyrulislam]

Read Imam Bukhari's book "Juz Raf'ul Yadayn" for a comprehensive understanding of why one should do Raf'ul Yadayn. Ultimately one's prayer is correct whether it is practiced or not.

[@ansarbanbury]

But he’s not Salaf 😊

[@bd4645]

Could you guys debate on the feet being Awrah verse not being Aware.

[@bewatter3014]

Bārakallāhu fīk

[@hanssolos3699]

haahaa this is too cute with brothers blushing

[@raahmad88]

is there a Maliki vs? :)

[@salaamseeker]

Any Maliki scholars you've got in mind 👀

[@raahmad88]

@@salaamseeker Shiekh Hamza Yousef is the best name that comes to mind

[@Amidamaru10]

Dr shadee el masry would be nice

[@johhnlawrencee3651]

Can someone tell how late after the prophet were Imam Shafaei and Hanafi mazhabs came?

[@salaamseeker]

Imam Abu Hanifa was born 80 Hijri according to the strongest opinion, which was roughly 69 years after the death of our Prophet pbuh. Imam As Shafi was born 150 Hijri, which is 139 years after the passing of our Prophet pbuh

[@mikhan5191]

Imam Abu Hanifah saw some of the Sahaba so he saw them praying with his own eyes. He also learned the Sunnah from hundreds of students of the Sahaba.

[@mikhan5191]

The established Sunnah as passed down from Sahaba to their students OVERIDES any Sahih Hadith or clear narrations collected by Imam Shafi or Ahmed or Bukhari.

[@Goks135]

Says who? Any references? JazakaAllahu Khair.

[@mikhan5191]

@@Goks135 - Common Sense! Also Imam Maliks School /Madhab. Also Imam Abu Hanifah and his Teachers.

[@Goks135]

@@mikhan5191 Come on brother. Is that your reference - common sense! The established Sunnah is already preserved through Sahih Hadith. The established Sunnah as passed down from the Sahaba to their students also reached Imam Shafi, Imam Ahmad and Imam Bukhari through Sahih Hadith and preserved chains. The established Sunnah is not only restricted to Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik.

[@mikhan5191]

@@Goks135 - you are confusing and conflating SUNNAH with HADITH. The 2 are not the same. They have different definitions as known by studying the Sciences /usul of Fiqh & hadith. The Sunnah doesn't necessarily need any hadith because it is taught by the ACTIONS /AMAL of the Sahaba. For example, they may say to the people: "Watch my prayer and learn the movements and what I recite" So the ppl would WATCH the ACTIONS of the Sahaba and learn the Sunnah of wudhu, salah, hajj etc. WITHOUT any hadith being mentioned or recorded. There is no doubt that some Sahaba would transmit ahadith about the same actions but their AMAL /ACTIONS would already have ESTABLISHED the Sunnah even before they had explained it with any hadith. So, when thousands of Sahaba and their students do an ACTION/AMAL /SUNNAH and there are several Sahih Hadith saying something different from that Sunnah, then that Sahih Hadith will be rejected in favour of the established Sunnah. This is what the Hanafi and Maliki Schools follow. The later Schools of Shafi & Hambali don't have access to the established Sunnah so they can ONLY rely on the Hadith.

[@mikhan5191]

@@Goks135 my comment got deleted

[@interfaceking1137]

they shoul discuss more important issues of aqeedah, debating madhabs is a waste if your aqeedah is corrupted. The fact Noorud-deen, was called a scholar to his face and didn't bat an eye lid, shows how ignorant he is, that he thinks he has reached the rank of the scholar. Calamity, you have ignorant ahlul bid'ah debating madhabs and fiqh as usual, but never discuss issues of aqeedah.

[@salaamseeker]

The issue of Aqeeda has been discussed in our podcast, and in sha Allah we hope to continue discussing them in the future. I am assuming you have already watched those? In regards to being called a Scholar, I am not sure if you are aware how academic discussions are held- but when one has academic discussions (be it Islamic or other), it is important to establish educational background/religious education first, to understand if they are well equipped to discuss the matter or topic they are discussing. Above was a little bit about being a scholar ... But I also want to leave you with a definition of a troll: "... troll is a person who communicates using off-topic or inflammatory messages to enrage individuals or groups and start an online war. Some trolls wander the web alone, looking for a fight to pick, while others storm forums and social media services in packs to disrupt conversations and push their agendas." Thank you for your comment! :)

[@abdullahassaffah]

Fish hadith tafsir aqeedah are all important to discuss a person being wrong in one area doesn't automatically make them wrong in all or to discuss. However undoubtedly these two have been caught out many times claiming to give the madhab view but gave sething else same as another sufi deviant hamza yusuf. Second these two have no manners humbleness or etiquette of a scholar and you can see when they speak they are not mufti level they're ordinary level infact you can see the arrogance when they speak and the lack of scholarly manners if you watch sheikh munajjid mufti taking uthmani sheikh dedew sheikh haitham Al haddad you maulana yasir mufti Adam mufti faraz you can see the scholarly knowledge flow out of them you can disagree with them but the scholarly etiquette manners are clear on them even students of knowledge like Abu taymiyya are better mannered then these two

[@abdullahassaffah]

​@@salaamseekerso can you give us the education background where they became scholars got their ijaza from not saying they're not scholars but we need to know their background like sheikh ibn baz his full background of education is known mufti faraz again we know his full education background

[@interfaceking1137]

@@salaamseeker not sure why you would define a troll, if you believe I am an internet troll, than you are heavily mistaken. People who do not have grounds in the correct Aqeedah should not be discussing issues of fiqh and other aspects. As aqeeda is what gives you grounds on making judgements. Also no one on the panel is even a small student of knowledge let alone a senior student of knowledge or a scholar.

[@AwesomeIcer9000]

Why is the debate on raful yadain necessary? In the shafi’i madhab it is mandub.

[@salaamseeker]

To show where differences of opinions come from and to highlight that there is always evidence supporting all opinions of the madhaahibs

[@AwesomeIcer9000]

@@salaamseeker Maybe a good idea would be to discuss fiqh issues and topics where there is actually a difference in the sense that it matters whether or not one does it. For example, why the Shafi’is read Fatiha behind the imam while the Hanafis do not, or why bleeding or touching a woman does or does not break wudhu. These actually have an impact on the validity of wudhu and salah, whereas raising the hands (raful yadain), as I said, is mandub. But of course, I appreciate the discussion. It gave us a good insight into the madhab differences on the topic. Jazakallah Khairan.

[@salaamseeker]

We thought it was important to speak on Rafu'l Yadain given the misconceptions associated with it. We did, however, speak on other important topics such as eating prawns and differences in I'sha Salah timings, which will be out soon, insha'Allah!

[@afnankhan5989]

The hypocrisy of these madhab supporters is evident. They praise the imams for reaching conclusions after researching numerous hadiths and considering various perspectives. However, when a scholar who doesn't follow any madhab conducts similar research and reaches a conclusion, they accuse that scholar of ignoring evidence and coming to conclusions without considering other perspectives. This is nothing but bohtaan. These muqalideen set the perspective that only they, despite being ignorant followers (as taqleed is only for the ignorant), are knowledgeable, while the dedicated scholars who work hard day and night, studying hadith and conducting thorough research, are not considered knowledgeable and claim that they come to conclusion by reading one hadith.

[@afnankhan5989]

I hope the admin of this page respects the madhab of these imams, which was nothing but the manhaj and madhab of Ahlul Hadith, and does not blindly follow their teachers. As you all have heard, Imam Shafi'i was a student of a companion of Imam Abu Hanifa and also a student of Imam Malik. However, he conducted his own research. The same goes for Imam Ahmed and the muhaddithin who came after them. The concept of madhabs and taqleed only emerged later with lazy followers who didn't want to spend time with the Sunnah and were satisfied with merely following the opinions of scholars and now sit in front of us as "Esteemed scholars"

[@afnankhan5989]

Lets get the likes of Sheikh zulfiqar Ibrahim memon on this channel to discuss the obligation of taqleed!

[@louisdeniau8571]

you will produce hundreds of madhabs

[@afnankhan5989]

@@louisdeniau8571 unfortunately, we have forced madhabs on early scholars howee, , they all had only one madhab, that was ahlul hadith, with differences in opinion just like there are differences within these inovated madhabs now. And on top of that, why only 4 madhabs. Is there any evidence prohibiting more than 4 madhabs? wasn't there a madhab of Awzai? And since none of these madhabs were attested by rasool Allah and all of them were formed after several years, why can't we have more madhabs now? Its either no madhab or infinite madhabs. There nothing from islam that can limit madhabs to 4.

[@moneyxl0057]

Brother stop causing disunity by spewing nonsense and falsehood. The 4 Imam's are widely accepted due to Ijma and every Salafi will start off studying one of them There's nothing wrong with following a madhab and there's nothing wrong with being a Salafi If Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) was alive today would he still remain on his conclusions exactly the same way? Of course not, because we have more resources available to us today we can literally read all of Sahih Al-Bukhari and Muslim in one week. But it makes logical sense that in Abu Hanifa's time he had his own positions due to a limitation of resources. There's no need to be dwelling on the past and attacking Imam's that are already dead Focus on moving forward and benefitting the ummah, is this going to help stop the kuffar from killing more Muslims?

[@RR-vg5hg]

Absolutely pathetic discussion in this time

[@Oo786oO]

Less pathetic than your comment.

[@Tinolg7]

Can you plz get sheikh asrar Rashad on here. This was a great video I love the respect between these madhabs beautiful mashallah

[@salaamseeker]

Jzk for the feedback! We'd be happy to host him, insha'Allah

[@Tinolg7]

@@salaamseeker thank you. May Allah reward you all for these videos! hope to see more 👍. Sorry to bother you but is it true in the shafi madhab if they touch a women the wudu is broken just curious?

[@salaamseeker]

Ameen! Response from Shaykh Jamili: If it is skin to skin contact with a non-mahram woman, yes. Otherwise, no.

[@mohammadkothawala4440]

Please also include shaikh Yasir al-Hanfi

[@Tinolg7]

@@salaamseeker thank you for that reply I really appreciate it 👍

[@abdullahassaffah]

Whether you agree or disagree with rafa yadain videos done by mawlana yasir al hanafi or assim al hakeem is better